Panzer Dragoon Saga (Black vs. White)

[seebs]

Hey everyone,

I have a question about the NTSC U.S. version of Panzer Dragoon Saga for the Saturn. I'm trying to figure out the production run history of the game. This is what I know so far, but if any of it is false please let me know.

There were two production runs (since the first one sold out).
There are two versions: a black sleeved version (the sleeves hold the extra discs) and a white sleeved version

Someone who claimed to have purchased the game the day of its release says he has the black sleeved version, which suggests that version was the first run and the white version was the 2nd. However, I've also had people claim that both versions were released together, regardless of which production run they were in.

Does any one know the history behind all this?
Were there two production runs? And if so how many copies were produced for each run?
Is the black version the first run, and the white the second?
Does this have any affect on collectors value?

Any info would be great. Thanks for looking.

seebs

[seebs]

wow...I thought if there was any person on the net that would have the answer to this one it would be in this forum....no one?

[maxlords]

No one really pays attention to what sleeves it comes with. I bought my copy off the shelf in San Jose when it came out, and mine has 2 black sleeves and 1 white sleeve. And I bought it brand new, never sold it. I don't know if that really throws off your stats or what, but I suspect they just used whatever sleeves they had lying around.

[seebs]

no, that doens't throw off my stats, that just adds to them! Thanks for the info. I know most people don't really care about the sleeves, I'm just trying to put together a collecdtor's guide for the game with a production run history (and I thought this site was big on collecting, that's all).

But you say that you bought your game brand new/factory sealed and the sleeves were mixed and match so that seems to throw out the black is first run/white is second theory, as well as the theory that all games came with uniformly-colored sleeves.

[Ed Oscuro]

(and I thought this site was big on collecting, that's all).
I'd say there's hope for Digital Press, my friend! LOL

I guess the big posters haven't gotten around to digging out their copies yet, that's all.

[Garry Silljo]

I don't know if I got the first or second run. I'm pretty sure its the first, and its all black sleaves. As for the size of the runs. It was my understanding that the first was 5000, no clue on number 2. Even still I could be wrong. I'm good at that.

[seebs]

Here is a link to an ebay auction that has the mixed colore sleeves mentioned earlier:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8114817184&rd=1

Yeah, I heard that the first run was 5000 too...I wonder if Sega would respond if I asked them how many copies of PDS were produced in the US...

[Nez]

Is there no other sign to figure out the differences between the two production times. If you have any info on that I might be able to give some information on the topic.

[seebs]

I imagine you can tell by serial number...maybe...? There has to be some distinguishing characteristic. On my copy there is a number on the bottom of the case on each side: 81307

Does that number mean anything?

I believe the UPC number would stay the same wouldn't it? If not, the UPC on my copy (which is white sleeved) is 01008681307.

Anyone else have any ideas?

[Mr Mort]

I bought mine from the local EB on realease day, and I mine has all black sleeves...

[RyoGeo]

Bought mine day of release.

All black sleeves.

[seebs]

Okay, let's try and sum up what we know and get it all confirmed:

For those of you that have all black sleeves, is your UPC number different from the one I listed above, and do you have the same 81307 number on the case?

I also got confirmation from another PDS owner who claims to have purchased the game new and got 2 black sleeves and 1 white sleeve...so that means that the one listed above was not a fluke or completely unique occurence.

So we know that all black sleeves were definitely there from the start, which puts these possible theories in place:

(Theory 1) 1st run = black, 2nd run= black/white; white
(Theory 2) 1st run = black; black/white, 2nd run = white
(Theory 3) All colored sleeve combinations were there from the start and sleeve color does not distinguish between production runs

To comfirm that last theory can the owners of PDS who have all white sleeves or mixed sleeve colors confirm that they purchased the game near it's initial release (to ensure that it was from the first run)?

[blissfulnoise]

For what it's worth, mine was also bought the day of release from a Babbages. All black sleeves.

I'll check the UPC when I get home.

[Nez]

Well heres my info. I purchased my Panzer Dragoon Saga on E-bay recently. It has all white sleaves. Heres the bar code: 10086 81307. The case number is 81307. I guess the number in the case is universal.

[chadtower]

One more data point: bought day of release, all black sleeves.

[maxlords]

I bought my mixed sleeve copy new in San Jose, CA about 2-3 weeks after release. I don't know the exact date, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't release day.

[ubersaurus]

I don't know if I got the first or second run. I'm pretty sure its the first, and its all black sleaves. As for the size of the runs. It was my understanding that the first was 5000, no clue on number 2. Even still I could be wrong. I'm good at that.

There's an old thread on here about the size of the panzer dragoon production runs...I think the first was closer to 10,000, and the second around 5000.

EDIT: here it is. http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7542&highlight=dragoon+production+run

Apparently it was around 12,000 copies total.

[seebs]

Ah! Thank you for the link to the old post. It was very helpful and informative.

[seebs]

Well heres my info. I purchased my Panzer Dragoon Saga on E-bay recently. It has all white sleaves. Heres the bar code: 10086 81307. The case number is 81307. I guess the number in the case is universal.

Is that UPC code a typo or is it confirmed to be different from the one I have: 01008681307?

And does anyone have any thoughts on whether this could distinguish between production runs (or have any ideas on what could)?

[seebs]

Well, I finished my feature on the subject. It's still incomplete, I guess, but any comments on what is there are most welcome:'

http://segaguild.netfirms.com/7N_PDS_Guide.html

[jajaja]

i thought the black sleeve was the european (PAL) version and the white was NTSC

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, seeing as all the posters above who had copies on release day with black sleeves are American, it's a safe bet that rule doesn't apply, JaJaJa (yesyesyes?).

[Solar77]

I've had two copies and I believe they both all had black sleeves. This is no help though since I got them used at Funco back in the late 90's. Great game. I think need to get a copy now.

[RCM]

I would like to know the exact number released in the states as well. I got mine a day or two after launch. All black sleaves too. Somebody should email SOA for the real answer. I can't see a reason for them to lie about numbers you know?

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Ridley30]

I bought my copy the day of release from an EB here in Portland, OR and I got all white sleeves.

[crazyjackcsa]

I've owned two versions

The preorder I got was all black sleeves. During a time of unemployment I sold it. I repurchased about a year later got two black one white. I just always figured the guy screwed me. I guess not.

[jajaja]

Ed Oscuro: yep hehe, the only nick i could think of when i regged this account. I know i asked you before, but what is your avtar again? I forgot which thread i asked in so i cant check if you replied or not :\

[maxlords]

I like the article! Kudos, seebs! I do have one comment about it however. The gamer that claims that "anyone could have purchased multiple copies
of the game for $20 from online retailers shortly after its reprint." is completely full of crap.

You have to realize when PDS was released. 1998. There weren't really any online game retailers at that time. There was eBay...and it was JUST getting going. eBay started in late 96 or early 97, I forget which. By 98, it was JUST catching on in a major way and places like Amazon.com were still quite small. There WERE no real online game dealers and PDS didn't have that kind of distribution. You couldn't just order it online....I was just starting to buy games on eBay then and let me tell you, if I could have bought it online then, I would have.

[seebs]

Good point maxlords, and I agree with you, I'll revise the article accordingly.

[seebs]

You know, after all this research I am convinced that sleeve-color has nothing to do with production run. But there is still one thing that I find odd: How come everyone that has acknowledged having a mixed-sleeve version has revealed that they have two black sleeves and one white sleeve? How come there are no mixed-sleeve versions that have two white sleeves and one black?

[Iron Draggon]

I dunno, but I'm another one of those all black sleeve release day owners. :D