Moral dilemma regarding found games, opinions needed

[Aussie2B]

Okay, so here's the story:

My dad and his mom own the house that's right behind my dad's house. This one guy had been living there for about 8 years, and he's had all sorts of issues. In the last couple years (maybe longer), he's been REALLY bad about paying his rent. We're not talking a little late now and then, I mean not paying at all for long periods of time. My dad and grandma don't rent as a business; they just own a couple houses. They're more than nice to their renters, and they gave this guy PLENTY of time. Enough was enough, though, so my dad had to post an eviction notice. Of course this guy hollers like hell, and he's still in the place long after he's supposed to be out. My dad is understanding, though, and he lets the guy take his sweet ass time. My dad sees that he's just moving all his stuff into his garage, and finally when my dad sees that the guy's mail has been there for a couple days and there are no signs of life, my dad assumes that he's gone. He didn't talk to my dad about anything, didn't hand over the key, nothing, AND he left garbage everywhere.

When my dad sees the place, it's a MESS, absolutely destroyed inside and out. The last time I was in the house, it was beautiful and flawless; now it's unlivable. To make things worse, there is STILL crap everywhere, and there isn't even any power in the house. Goodness knows what the hell this guy's been doing over the years. My dad says that the guy didn't even appear to be there half the time.

Now I'm involved in all this because, one, my dad calls it my house and unless they decide to sell it someday (unlikely) it will eventually be mine, and two, because my dad wants me and my boyfriend to help him clean it up (nice little summer job). My grandma recently had a heart attack, and since she can't go upstairs now, she'll either going to have to move in there which has a bathroom with a shower and tub on the first floor or move into a home, that is if she doesn't improve soon. If all goes well, though, we'll just be renting again.

That brings us to today. We went over to see if there was anything to do, and my dad said that the guy showed up today. It's trespassing at this point, but since the guy wanted to take more of his stuff, my dad was happy to have him take it rather than pay hundreds of dollars to drop it off at the dump himself. He's leaving the lock the same until all the crap is out of the house.

After looking around, I notice in the little girl's room a few games in an entertainment cabinet. Just some common, popular stuff; nothing too amazing. Super Mario World, Killer Instinct, Tetris (GB), Mario Kart 64, Goldeneye, a Spyro game, and a few others. I already have most everything there except for Goldeneye, Spyro, and a couple others. Nonetheless, I have a great urge to just take the stuff, keep the games I don't have, and sell off the rest to buy games I don't have.

What do you guys think? Taking into consideration all the crap we've been through with this guy, I wouldn't feel too bad about it in that regards. I wouldn't worry about this little girl either. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she hasn't been there in years, there were no systems to be found, the little girl may never see the games regardless even if the guy did take them, and as far as I know, he may see no use for them and chuck them. Very likely, no one would ever even know they were missing. Since starting tomorrow morning we're going to be packing this guy's stuff up in boxes and taking them outside, no one would be able to notice that any particular thing had been removed from anything. The guy should be glad to get any of this crap back. He should be fortunate if those were the only things lost in the move considering he abandoned so much stuff that we could have legally thrown away a long time ago had we desired to do such.

One thing I'm not going to do is ask the guy, if he shows up; that would be just too weird, so no one suggest that. o_O I suppose my options are:

1. Don't take the games.
2. Take them outright.
3. Try to hide them in some other type of box that he might consider junk and leave behind.
4. Put them in a box with the other stuff the girl had.
5. Put them in their own separate box and tuck them away in a corner.
6. Or something else. O_o

So thanks to whoever bothers to read this long story, and thanks for any and all opinions. :)

[Hovoc]

from what im reading, the guy basically abandoned the house, and previously didnt pay the rest as he was supposed to.


my friend has a similar situation, his dad buys and sels/rents houses, and has had a few dead beat occupants.

posession is 9/10ths the law, the dude left, technically, everything therein is yours/your dad's

as i read it the guy wants his stuff, and you guys are letting him come get what he wants.

the way i see it, if a few things turn up missing, thats less that he has to remove and less your dad throws away, there is still a chance that he wont get the games, and even so if his daughter asks where they are he prolly will brush it off as that they were misplaced and he never got them from the house.


problem solved, enjoy your find.

[-hellvin-]

Just take em. I don't think he'll notice at all. Even if he did come across em, it sounds like he'd just toss em anyways.

[Hovoc]

another thing


hes been there 8 years

64 is a few years old now, how old was the girl? maybe shes out of gaming now and could care less? the 64's gone but games are left?



jack em and be merry

[Nez]

I wouldn't take them offically they do not belong to you. Besides they are common and eaily availible. You'll feel better leaving them there anyways.

[Hovoc]

I wouldn't take them offically they do not belong to you.

your right, they belong to his dad and grandma seeing as how they own the house.


you may have missed the part were he said the guy basically abandoned the house and left it in a mess

[Nez]

No I read that. I think it would be best for her to leave the games there. It is obviously bugging her moral values, becouse she asked for advice. So My Opinion is that if she feels any doubt in her mind that it's not worth taking.

[geelw]

a suggestion: if you're on speaking terms with the soon to be former tenant, ASK him if you can have the games, and perhaps discuss this with your dad first. this would solve any issues right away. if you feel "weird" about it, it's not necessarily guilt or anything bad, it could be you've never been in this position before. human response to new situations can take on quite interesting forms.

ages ago, when i was living with a girlfriend and we were sharing rent, she had to go back to paris for about 8 months and i had a number of roomates move in and out during then. one guy who stayed for about 3 months left a box of clothes, an old 486 computer and a N64 with 6 boxed games and said his friend was coming to pick the stuff up. 3 weeks later, no one came by, and that's how i got my '64... :-P

[dmhawkmoon]

You technically own everything he left behind, from what I can tell. He was evicted and left stuff there. The only moral violations are on his part, not yours. Letting him take anything is being too kind to a person you've apparently been too kind to already. Take whatever you need. It's your house!

[AlanD]

I personally would not let him get any of his stuff back and would press legal proceedings to gain back rent and damages and secure his (obviously abandoned) property against that. Change the locks and let him get his stuff when he repairs the damage or wait 2 months or so then sell everything he left of the slightest value. Consult a lawyer if your parents even consider that as what the heck do I know? :)

As for the games, I don't see it as a moral issue myself. You told him to get out on certain date and his stuff should have all been removed. Take what you want. You aren't his personal storage facility.
AlanD

[Spartacus]

Legally, it's not YOUR house and therefore you have no claims on the tenants property. Punishing a child for the sins of the father is pretty reprehensible. I feel sorry for the daughter, her life sounds tough enough without anyone else piling on to her woes.
If you value the games, and it sounds as if you do, save them. But remember, that obliges you to actively search for the rightful owner to return them. Playing the games while searching for the owner would do no harm and seem fair compensation for your troubles.

[Querjek]

Take whatever you want.

[TEXASGAMEPLAYER]

I wonder how old you are and where you are from. I can not imagine having these thoughts. I would have taken them immediatly with no remorse or guilt. You must be a VERY innocent and kind person to think such things.

[maxlords]

I vote take them. Don't even bother to ask, except your dad. Make sure it's cool with your dad, the RIGHTFUL owner of everything in the house. Legally everything is his so you need his permission. Other than that...screw the tenant, he has NO rights in this case. If they don't like it, there's nothing they can do. Screw this compassion crap. They're obviously not people that deserve it. Kids can be jerks too you know.

[musical]

The guy owes your dad ~$5000 in unpaid rent. In other words, he's a THIEF stealing from your family. So just take whatever you want...consider it rent payment.

[punkoffgirl]

Renters rights vary from state to state, but I'm pretty sure his property is his property until legally declared otherwise. He's been a shitty ass tenant, but I'd talk to your dad first, just in case.

[petewhitley]

Renters rights vary from state to state, but I'm pretty sure his property is his property until legally declared otherwise. He's been a shitty ass tenant, but I'd talk to your dad first, just in case.

Exactly. I see alot of people telling you it's "your property" without any legal backing to what they are saying. Contact your local tenants association and find out what you can legally do in this case. As an aside, whoever said that punishing the girl for the sins of her father was dead right. Even if it becomes your father's legal property, I'd check with the girl herself before taking the games if possible. Taking the property of her deadbeat father is one thing, but she didn't do anything to rip you guys off. Give that poor girl a chance to get her games back if she wants 'em.

[Crush Crawfish]

Personally, i would try to speak with someone before taking them, be it the tenant or your dad or the girl or whatever. I'd feel pretty guilty taking them unless I had some sort of permission.

[sisko]

I wouldn't outright take them. Find out what the renters laws are in your state.. As stated previously, they can vary quite widely from state to state.

Depending on how long the guy has been evicted, etc etc, they may very well be your [dads] property. Then again, they may very well not be.

Actually, I imagine that there will be an impending lawsuit anyway (initiated by your father), so that might be another reason to wait.

I wouldn't straight up ask the guy. From what it sounds like, he'll just blow up in your face.

[dmhawkmoon]

I don't know if all of you read ths story, but it sounded to me like the guy has been evicted for quite some time, and it was stated that it's long past the day he was supposed to have gotten out of there.

[sisko]

posession is 9/10ths the law,

No, it is not. Far from it.

Following this farce is a surefire way to get your ass in some very hot water.

[halbert]

I don't think this is a debate: If it doesn't belong to you, don't take it.

If technically by law it does belong to you but there is a good chance they will come back for it, you don't take it.

[Aussie2B]

Seems split about 50/50. o_O

As for asking/talking to the girl, that's out of the question. Nobody has seen this girl in years. From what little I know, this man has a really bad relationship with the girl's mother (we don't even want to know why doors are kicked in inside this house...), so I think she hasn't been around her father much in many years. I'm guessing these games probably haven't been played since they were practically brand new, and that's also why I doubt she'd get these games back.

As for talking to my dad about it, I already did. He couldn't care less. He's not going to sue the guy or anything. He just wants to be done with him, get all his crap out of here in whatever way he can, and start fixing the place up. In this area, people have to pay for garbage removal, and if you have more than just a normal garbage can full of junk, you have to haul it to the dump yourself and pay a hefty amount to have them take it. My dad already has enough work and expenses to worry about with this house, so he'd be happy to not have to do that. I have a feeling that the guy will probably still leave some junk behind, though. That's why I could possibly get the games by just coming up with a way of packing them and "hiding" them so he doesn't bother to take them.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

I don't think this is a debate: If it doesn't belong to you, don't take it.

If technically by law it does belong to you but there is a good chance they will come back for it, you don't take it.

I agree. I personally wouldn't take the games just because of the guilt i would feel soon after. Though that also don't mean i wouldn't pick them up later after some time has passed and i knew he was long gone.

[Jasoco]

Normally, I'd say no. But hey, I agree. He abandoned the house, didn't keep up his end of the bargain, just call it part of his payment and take the things.

We have the same problem, though. We're too nice. I would probably have done the same thing. Let him stay and kindly asked to hurry up and leave. But what you all need to do is get the authorities if you legally can. Do whatever you legally can to dump this guy. Especially show them what the house looks like. Take him to court.

Kick his ass, Luke. Kick his ass and take his wallet!

[jhd7]

It comes down to who owns the contents of that house... your dad or the bum. The agreement (lease, eviction conditions, whatever) is between the two of them, not you. Even if the house will be yours someday, it's not yours yet. Legally, you're not involved, so taking anything would be stealing.

Just my two cents.

Jeff D

[dmhawkmoon]

I think that everyone who said you shouldn't take the stuff didn't read the story. This guy wasn't paying rent for a long time and got evicted a long time ago, still lived there after being evicted, and then when he did move out he left tons of things and the house in ruins. I don't know the exact law, but I can't imagine that, with the time frame we seem to be talking about here, the stuff could still be under his control. What is the time frame anyway? I assume we're talking a period of months since the eviction.

[tholly]

just take them......he prolly wont even know they are gone

[Jasoco]

In the words of Sonic the Hedgehog on The Simpsons: "Take it! Take it take it take it TAKE IT!!!"

Seriously, the douchebag [SP] is a dumbass. And a bad person who deserves no worldly possessions. His poor daughter on the other hand. She don't deserve him.

[musical]

I moved out of an apartment complex last year. I left behind a table and curtains. Did the Apartment Company call me and say, "You left this stuff behind"? Of course not. They just claimed it for themselves.

Abandoned property goes to the landlord.

[Jasoco]

Were they really nice curtains? I'd be pissed! LOL

Seriously though, this guy abandoned the place, did not pay the rent. He does not own it. I think that's enough to even hold up in court. Deadbeats do not get privileges. I still feel bad for the child.

[Oobgarm]

My thoughts: Take and keep. Don't sell the rest of them off until everything is in the clear. That way, your ass is covered and you can give the games back in the event that the guy demands them back.

And Jasoco, you did in fact spell DOUCHEBAG correctly. ;)

[dbiersdorf]

To be brutally honest with you, if it were me I would have taken them the moment I saw them, regardless if I had them or not. :o

[Ed Oscuro]

a suggestion: if you're on speaking terms with the soon to be former tenant, ASK him if you can have the games
Uh, why does everybody miss the part where it says he hasn't been back for a while?

In any case,

$XXX > a couple common PSX, N64 and SNES games

That guy's damned lucky you folks didn't throw his ass out on the street, that's what.

After he got the heavy stuff out of the house (the bulk of the mess I suppose) I would've told him he had two weeks to clean everything else out, and after that point he'd be arrested for trespassing (get the cops over to talk to him on this point beforehand, of course).

[Jasoco]

And Jasoco, you did in fact spell DOUCHEBAG correctly. ;)Whoo!

I am the Spelling KING!

ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM!!!

8-)

[ManekiNeko]

He still owes your family rent, right? In that case, hold the games as collatoral until he coughs up the goods. It's not likely that he'll ever come back, but I'd wait at least a year before you sold the games.

JR

[Aussie2B]

Well, I did make a decision yesterday, but since I don't want people to think I'm an idiot for not taking them or a thief for doing so, I'm not going to say what I did. :P I feel no regrets about my decision, so it's all good.

As for the girl, I feel sorry for her too. Her room felt like it was trapped in time. It looked like time had stopped in the late 90s (or around 2000). There was a bird cage in there still filled with bird crap along the bottom and bird seed all over the room; I'm sure glad there was no dead bird in it... There were all these photos of her and her parents everywhere. Her parents were so happy together in the pictures. My own parents divorce never hurt me much, but this girl I feel bad for.

Myself, my dad, and my boyfriend all worked like mofos yesterday. Just cleaning out the girl's room was an all day effort for myself. I filled up countless boxes of crap. Almost everything in the room was just piled on the floor all mixed up with tons of dust, dirt, old food, and other nasty shit mixed in. I don't even want to know how many pairs of little girl panties I picked up. >_< I'm praying that they were at least clean... but thankfully I had gloves. My boyfriend was hauling box after box after box into the garage, not to mention the mattress, box spring, bed frame, an exercise bike, heavy pieces of furniture, etc. The more we worked, the more I got pissed off at the guy. We spent the whole day doing shit that any decent human being would take care of themselves. The grossest thing (and it's very hard to pick just one) had to be the dishes in the dishwasher... which weren't even washed and had food all caked on them.

We did manage to get just about everything out of the house (there's a couch upstairs still). We're not going to be free storage forever for the guy, though. He gets another couple days (he didn't even show up yesterday) to get it, or we're going to start up a yard sale and try to move it out of there. At that point, we'll just claim whatever we want. The guy left behind two pretty nice TVs. There's a big one that my mom could use, and there's a small yellow and blue one from the girl's room that would be great for playing games on. There's also a pretty neat shelf that I could use for games. Eh, we'll see, I suppose.

Oh, and just to keep this game-related, I ended up finding a lot more games in that room than at first. There could be more, though. I didn't look extremely thoroughly. Here's what I found there (all loose):

N64:

Goldeneye
Mario Kart 64

SNES:

Super Mario World (re-release)
Killer Instinct
Super Mario Kart (re-release)

Game Boy:

Tetris

Game Boy Advance:

Pinobee

PlayStation:

Spyro the Dragon
Destruction Derby
Tomb Raider
FIFA 97
Gran Turismo

The PlayStation games are all likely shot, though. I was checking them out, and Spyro has a crack in it (from the edge inward). The other games don't look like they have anything that bad, but they are sure beat up like hell. I don't know if they'd even work.

[petewhitley]

Her room felt like it was trapped in time. It looked like time had stopped in the late 90s (or around 2000) ... Game Boy Advance: Pinobee

This is neither here nor there, but the presence of Pinobee for the GBA indicates that time stopped no earlier than 05/30/2001 (said game's release date). Anyways, I hope (but doubt) that your father gets his back rent at some point...

[DStriemer]

Regardless of how much money this guy owes your family, and how much damage he did to the property there is still no right on your part to procure his belongings. In fact, it is the landlords responsibility to give proper notice of items left behind to a tenant. It is also the landlords responsibilty to reasonably take care of any items left behind by a tenant until they can retrieve them. Any costs, or inconveniences of doing such can be claimed in court along with damages and unpaid rent owing. Keeping the items will only lose you favour with the judge in a court proceeding.(Assuming the guy actually notices said items are gone).

When all is said and done. I would take him to court for unpaid rent, damages, and if things are really bad, lost rent due to inability to rent the property out again for whatever period of time. Make sure to take pictures of the damages to the property as they are crucial even if you do not have pictures of the property before the damage. Judges' occasionally have common sense.

[brykasch]

Well having worked for my sister who used to handle some rental properties in exchange for free rent. This happens alot, we had to clean up a house where they literally had put all their garbage and what not in the garage. Basically after 3 months I would've had a legal eviction noticed served by the sherrif's dept in your area. After that depending on the state they have 30 days to come up with the rent or get out. After that date if they are not out, I would then proceed to file suit for damages and back rent as its going to cost a sizeable sum to make the home liveable again. Just tacking a eviction notice up your dad made doesn't have any legal leg to stand on unfortunatly. Your family is alot nicer than I would've been in that situation, people tend to take advantage of this. Myself I would've talk to my dad first about it, but even then I would've left the stuff there.

[Ed Oscuro]

I would take him to court for unpaid rent, damages, and if things are really bad, lost rent due to inability to rent the property out again for whatever period of time.
That's all well and good, but I doubt that's going to happen. If this was me we were talking about, I'd do it, but it sounds like the place has already been cleaned up a good deal.

What I'm going to say is that nobody needs to find out about these games.

We will forget we had this conversation in 24 hours.

[Hovoc]

[quote=DStriemer]

We will forget we had this conversation in 24 hours.


Mods delete the evidence ;)

[dmhawkmoon]

I would like to point out that we're supposed to be talking about a moral, not a legal dilemma. If you read the entire story, I don't see how there are any moral violations here if they decided to keep everything. I love the "blame the victim" mentality. Give me a break...

[Stark]

Since you already thought about taking them then just do it. Forget all these live honest goody goody sugestions and take them. As I heard someone say once "It's only illegal if you get caught". Don't stress out over it whatever you do. 8-)

[Nez]

5 dollars says she took em. Hell you have to get something for working your ass off cleaning someone elses filf.

[-hellvin-]

Indeed she took them =D. Amazed that people could think this over for so long, I would have seen, taken, not cared and not asked advice ;).

[tssk]

I'm a bit older than most of you guys. I'd go with your conscience.

If it feels wrong don't do it.

Believe me, you can't put a price on a good nights sleep.

[qbertandernie]

leave the door unlocked, this loser will think he left it open when he picked up some stuff,,, doesnt sound like anyone could trash it worse,,,, take anything of value and hock it, then buy games and take your grandma to a fancy dinner.

anyone who (trashes someone elses house and) doesnt pay rent is considered a squatter. sure they have rights, but cant rightly sue you for not keeping the house theyve not moved out of secured. id be tempted to take the front door off and tell the guy he has until the house is emptied to get the rest of his crap out. this is legal. then take what you want.

he owes you guys for damaging the house and back rent. $25 worth of games he isnt going to miss seems more than fair.

just dont forget to take grandma to a nice dinner afterward.

[rbudrick]

AFAIK, once evicted, if a tenant abandons his stuff and comes to get it after (x) amount of time...check your local laws...you can charge a storage fee. If the fee is unpaid, you can throw the shit out. Or say you did. Hey, if new tenants are moving in, you have the right to get rid of that shit. You gave the fucker 30 days to get out and you are only doing him a favor at this point by even letting him get any of his shit. Give him an ultimatum to get the shit out and then throw everything out. Games included. Of course, if the trash bin the games end up in happen to be your game room, so be it.

-Rob

[TRM]

I would suggest that you would take the games. This story reminds me of a story which happened to my family a few years ago:

A few years back my family had contracted with a guy to build a patio area onto the side of our house. Anyway, we contracted with him to do so, and things were looking rather good for us. However, he stopped showing up, was thrown in jail for dui, and only 1/8 of our project was done. To make matters worse, he didn't even purchase all of the materials needed and used our money to pay off another guy which he owed money too.

To make a long story short, this we eventually sued this guy and had a sherif sale on the goods in his house, to get a bit of the money back that he owed us. We got a few TVs and a few tools, there wasn't much for the taking.

But to make a long story short, sometimes you can't be the nice guy. We were too nice with this guy, giving him three or four chances, feeling bad for him at first (after he was jailed for dui) and so on. Some people are just not worth wasting your time and energy on, so I see nothing wrong with taking the games without feeling bad. I mean, this guy also left a really big mess for all of you to clean up, not something that you should have had to clean.

[Aussie2B]

Well, just as a little update as to what's going on (if anyone actually cares): the guy's stuff is STILL there. He hasn't come back to pick up anything since that one day weeks ago. We've removed pretty much everything of his from the house (with the exception of a couch upstairs). It's all loaded into the garage, which isn't locked up. If anyone wanted to go in and steal stuff, they could. As I said a long time ago, if the games were the only thing he lost, he should consider himself lucky. I have a feeling he isn't going to come back, though. My dad's putting off dealing with the mess, so the guy has till August to get the stuff. If it's still there at that point, we'll have try to sell it at a garage sale before the summer is over. I'm guessing if we do that we'll get at least some of the money made during the sale (not to mention we could take the TVs and whatever else we want), which would be nice. We've already worked there several days, and my dad's keeping track of the hours in order to pay us eventually. I'm happy to help him, so I'd do it even without getting any money (but goodness knows us poor college students could use any and all extra cash we can get :P ).

Oh, and the last day I was there I had to pick up a dirty pair of little girl panties and this Burger King drink that had been sitting there for all eternity. The drink was leaking all over the shelf and floor, and it was some bizarre green ooze. o_O Then later I accidentally put my knee right in a spot where some of it leaked. >_<

[Funk Buddy]

Oh, and the last day I was there I had to pick up a dirty pair of little girl panties

TMI LOL

[tholly]

Oh, and the last day I was there I had to pick up a dirty pair of little girl panties

TMI LOL


yea....thats just NASTY

[Aussie2B]

Well, the mystery as to where the systems that those games were played on went has been solved.

Just recently my boyfriend thought he spotted a box with controllers and stuff buried deep beneath a mountain of crap loaded into the garage. I took a look as best I could, and it didn't appear to be anything of interest (which I told him). It had been a long, hot day of hard work, so I told him not to worry about it (he was already moving furniture and boxes, hehe). The next day we went to work he was stubborn and determined to check out the box, so he dug it out of the mess. Boy was I wrong when I said there was nothing of interest in it... In the box was:

A 1st model SNES that was a little dirty, but appeared to be barely used and like new with the AC adapter and RF
2 official SNES controllers
1 third party SNES controller (InterAct Super Pad)

A black N64, slighty dirty, but in excellent condition (with the original jumper pak), the AC adapter, and the A/V cord (cut in half o_O )
A red official N64 controller (not used much; its stick is even better than the ones on my N64 controllers)

A 1st model PlayStation (with the back port; a 1998 model) covered in bird shit but otherwise pretty nice, the plug, and the A/V cord (with each cord separated completely from the others)
2 original non-analog/rumbling controllers, also with bird poop on them
A grey official PlayStation memory card (more bird crap)
Razor Freestyle Scooter inside the PlayStation

I also found Mario Golf for GBC in there, the manual for Gran Turismo, a Game Boy precaution booklet, and the manual for Beetle Adventure Racing on N64.

Now the new mystery is: If they saved a couple manuals, does that mean there could be manuals for the other games somewhere in the mess? AND what's up with the Beetle Adventure Racing manual? I've yet to come across the cart (or any other sign of the game), so there could possibly more games somewhere. The really funny thing is that I just bought Beetle Adventure Racing a couple weeks ago, and my copy came with everything BUT the manual, hehe. :)