What are the best ways to hook up systems to TV

[SkiDragon]

This has likely been discussed elsewhere, if so, please point me in the right direction.

I have a non-high definition TV, RCA, that says XBox ready. This is referring to a special connector in the back that allows you to hook up an Xbox with a single cable. The TV also has S-Video, as well as those three RCA jacks for video (red green and blue. component video, i think its called). Will hooking up systems with S-Video, or component video, actually make a difference on this non-high-def TV?

I heard that the component video is not actually a true Red-Green-Blue signal. Is this true? If so, which is superior?

What about differences between normal cables and these "ultra definition nitrogen injected super conductive platinum tipped" type of cables you see in the store? Are they actually any better?

Is it possible to modify a normal TV to accept true Red-Green-Blue signals?

Is there a list of the best possible ways to hook up each system? Which have stereo/surround, which dont?
Specifically, PSOne, Gamecube, Saturn, and XBox (the four now hooked up to that TV.

I am basically completely in the dark about this. I like RCA jacks now, but until recently, I preferred RF switches simply because you could connect a bunch of them in series. (I use RCA with my NES now, but cant see where it is much better than the RF switch.

[Half Japanese]

I'm not sure about RGB since it's not a widely used format for games, but here's a simple (and I do mean simple) breakdown of the most common types, in order from best to worst:

Component - splits the video signal into red green and blue to give you the sharpest picture currently available for game consoles.

S-Video - Better color separation and a sharper image that composite. This is now my bare minimum for cables.

Composite - what you get with the console right out of the box. Nothing fancy, better than RF, but nowhere near as good as S-video.

RF - plugs in where your cable does. This should be considered only as a last ditch effort if your TV is old and crappy. Sure, you can daisy-chain them, but with a S-video switch box ($20 at any major electronics retailer) you'll be much more pleased with picture quality.


I have my TV's two component inputs occupied with my DVD player and with my GCN/Xbox on an alternating basis (saving up for a home theater system that will alleviate the need for a component switch temporarily) and everything else (ps1, Dreamcast) that I have hooked up is using S-video. Of course, you'll also want to play around with your TV's menus to get things looking their absolute best, as the default settings don't usually do games/movies justice.

Your "Xbox-ready" TV is a model that RCA made for a while that uses a special connection, the cord for which can only be found through RCA's website as far as I know. I'm not sure, it may end up being worth something in the future, but for picture's sake, I'd throw the 30 bones they want to charge for that cable at a pair of Monster component cables...that is if you have an Xbox in the first place...

[Gamereviewgod]

For a non-HD, I see no difference between component and S-Video. The difference is negligible. For an HD, it's a whole new ball game. The above Dr.'s statment is true. Very well put on all levels.

[Half Japanese]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that. If you don't see yourself getting a HDTV anytime soon (the going price on the Zenith 27" Hi-Def I got is roughly $650), S-video should be sufficient, but don't rob yourself with a cheap pair of universal ones. My local Blockbuster has Monster S-video cables for $9.99 for Xbox and ps2 @_@ .

[Ze_ro]

Will hooking up systems with S-Video, or component video, actually make a difference on this non-high-def TV?
S-Video will probably be noticably better than RF or Composite (single yellow jack) if you look closely... I'm not sure that component would really be noticable though. It's hard to say, since everyone seems to have their own opinions with video standards. Chances are that even if component DID look better, the difference will probably be small enough that it won't be worth the price to get the cables for it. In the end, it's your choice.


I heard that the component video is not actually a true Red-Green-Blue signal. Is this true? If so, which is superior?
Well, you heard right... RGB sends three seperate signals, one for each color. Component video (or more precisely, colour-difference video) also uses three seperate signals, but they're arranged differently. One is luminance (basically, the brightness of the picture), and the other two are "Y-R" and "Y-B", which are the difference of the red and blue from the luma. Apparently, green takes up about 59% of most video signals, so they save some bandwidth by not transmitting it, and instead calculating it from the other three inside the TV.

I'm fairly certain that RGB is slightly better, but I'm also quite certain that you'd never be able to tell the difference under normal circumstances.


What about differences between normal cables and these "ultra definition nitrogen injected super conductive platinum tipped" type of cables you see in the store? Are they actually any better?
Forget them. They're very slightly better, but they're often 3x the price. It's really not worth it unless you're completely anal about video quality, or you have tons of interference problems and such.


Is it possible to modify a normal TV to accept true Red-Green-Blue signals?
Well... I'm not completely sure... but I would guess no. Even if it is possible, it would almost certainly be a LOT of work. Component video should be plenty good enough if you want the best possible picture... especially since most systems these days can do component without having to hack them up.

Probably the easiest way to do things for you is to pick up a multi-video switch from the local game store or Best Buy or whatever. I have a 5-input one that I use for a bunch of my systems and it works great. Most of these video switches can do both S-Video and Composite (one or the other, not both at once), so use the S-Video ports, and you should be fine.

Since you have that XBox port, you might as well use it.

--Zero

[DasCrewShtool]

It would be next to impossible to modify a tv to accept component input, because a TV with RF and Composite inputs the R G and B are combined but cut in half to make way for the luminance which is the B and W part of the signal which manages the sharpness of the picture, since you are dealing with one cable bandwidth is an issue, and since the color your TV displays is a direct result of 3 different beams for RGB, all of which have different voltages, you would have to rework the board and add procamps and a high voltage transformer rated exactly for the spectrum of higher voltages you are introducing on top of the fact that the new higher voltages would burn up the tube, so from an engineers stand point you might as well design a whole new TV while you are at it, sorry if I sounded like a Jerk!!!

[SkiDragon]

Funny you should say that, I am currently majoring in electrical engineering. But I dont know enough to really do anything. How about modifying a TV with only "Composite" (yellow) video to use S-Video?

And sombody should really make a list or something. Will the S-Video cord for a Gamecube work with an N64 and SNES? Will PS2 component work with PSX/One?

[anagrama]

Most SNES/N64/GC cables are interchangable - I think some third party ones may have issues, though.


RGB-wise, it's a doddle over here in Europe, but in the States you'll probably need an RGB monitor. Aside from that, the best option is S-Video.

[SirDrexl]

It's worth pointing out that that inexpensive Monster cable that the Dr mentioned does not have a jack for an optical cable for digital audio. You'll need one of the official AV or HD packs or a Monster cable with the appropriate jack for digital audio. The problem with the Monster one though, is that it has a proprietary connector, so you have to buy Monster's own optical cable for audio. Both together would cost you around $60-70.

[Half Japanese]

It's worth pointing out that that inexpensive Monster cable that the Dr mentioned does not have a jack for an optical cable for digital audio. You'll need one of the official AV or HD packs or a Monster cable with the appropriate jack for digital audio. The problem with the Monster one though, is that it has a proprietary connector, so you have to buy Monster's own optical cable for audio. Both together would cost you around $60-70.

I should have also noted that the proprietary Monster optical cable is only $7.99 at my Blockbuster, and the Monster component cables were $39.99 at Gamestop. Honestly though, were I to come home one day and someone had switched my Monster setup for the MS-brand, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference.

Also, as far as I know any cable that works for a ps2 will work for a ps1, and any that work for a Gamecube (save for the component cable, which uses the other input on the back of the GCN) will work for the N64 and most models of the SNES (I think model 2 had problems?).

[SkiDragon]

Well, I have not found a list like I was describing, so I will just make my own, based off of my own knowledge. If something is wrong, please say so.

This list tells the best video and sound output possible without modification for systems I am familiar with.

NES
RCA Yellow
Mono RCA

NES2
RF Switch
Mono

SNES
S Video
Stereo RCA

SNES2
RCA Yellow
Stereo RCA

Genesis 1
Probably RCA Yellow, but Im not sure
Stereo RCA?

Genesis 2
RCA Yellow
Stereo RCA

Genesis 3
RCA Yellow
Stereo RCA?

Saturn
S Video
Stereo RCA

Playstation & PS1
S Video
Stereo RCA (any surround?)

N64
S Video
Stereo RCA (any surround?)

GameCube
Component
Stereo RCA? (any digital?)

PS2
Component
Optical audio

XBox
Component
Optical audio



Somewhat unrelated, but has anyone else seen the orange RCA jacks on some thing that use a digital signal? Do any consoles use this format? It seemed as good as optical to me.

[SkiDragon]

Im sorry, but could anybody please confirm of otherwise comment/expand on this list?

Thanks!

[SirDrexl]

To get stereo sound on the Genesis (1), I think you have to connect an adapter cable to the headphone jack.

A few N64 games had Dolby Surround (Pro-Logic): Rogue Squadron, Donkey Kong 64, Perfect Dark, and a few others. Some PlayStation games had it too (Final Fantasy VIII, some EA Sports games). In these cases, we're talking about 2-channel stereo with center and surround channels matrixed into the audio signal-it's a far cry from Dolby Digital 5.1 (in Xbox games) with discrete separation of each channel. Of course, if you want to hear PS games with the cleaner digital audio connection you can always play them on a PS2.

Apparently, the Gamecube has no digital audio output, but I read someone say on a forum that it's possible to hack a component cable to get it. I haven't been able to find out how to do it anywhere though. The connector on the back of the Cube is labeled "Digital AV out" so it wouldn't make sense to call it that if there is no audio connection there. :)

The orange connector you're talking about is called a coaxial digital audio connector. It carries the same digital signal as an optical cable does. Most receivers will have only one input for this, and more for optical since optical cables are more widely used. It's kind of a shame, since the coaxial cables are usually cheaper. Heck, I think you can even use any cheap cable with RCA connectors on the ends and supposedly there's no difference in the quality of the sound. Don't hold me to that though, because I don't know. No consoles use this out of the box, but it is possible to mod an Xbox for it: http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/digital-output.php

However, it's easier to mod an Advanced AV or HD pack: http://wrongcrowd.com/xboxspdif/

[SkiDragon]

Thank you for that information.

Sorry for bumping this topic but I really wanted at least a link to a website that would tell me the best way to hook up each console, or, since its not very complicated, somebody could just tell me. I have a feeling my list is correct, but if not, please say so.

[Richter]

does the XB do optical sound out of the box

[Half Japanese]

does the XB do optical sound out of the box

No. You'll need one of three things to do optical with the Xbox. You'll need Microsoft's Advanced A/V Pack (S-video/composite) or their High-Def A/V Pack (Component), both of which retail for $19.99. Alternately you can use Monster's Component cable plus their proprietary optical doohickey (it won't take a standard optical without an adapter between the component cables themselves and the optical cable). Prices on those are generally $59.99 and $19.99, respectively. Your best prices on Monster stuff are going to come from Gamestop (got my component ones for $39.99 there) and Blockbuster (got my optical adapter there for $7.99). Shop around, and if you know someone in retail electronics at Circuit City/Best Buy ask them about getting them for you through Monster's retail discount program (60% off retail price).

[ghostangelofcky]

Put it thisw way, if RCA is all youy can afford than run with it. You're not stupid, you know that S-video is better, and composite is better than than that. If you cannot afford composite on most of your systems than I wouldn't even try it. It's just gonna piss you off. If you can afford to switch half of your systems to better connections then do it.

Personnally I think you already know the answer to this ?.

If you have your Xbox through composite connections then you have your Saturn through a RFU you'll know the difference.

ghost

[SkiDragon]

Ok, to clarify, my television will accept any kind of input besides an RGB signal.

I want to know if the list above is accurate. For example, when hooking up my genesis, I want to know the best possible way of doing it, short of messing with the insides (not that I am incapable). So no RGB.

[Anthony1]

In terms of best possible video signal , here is a breakdown:


1. HDTV signal of 1080i or 720p - Currently, the only way you can get this is with an XBOX, and XBOX High Def Cable, one of the games that does 720p, like Amped 2, or a game that does 1080i like Enter the Matrix, and a HDTV that is capable of displaying a 720p or 1080i signal. There are actually many more TV's that will do 1080i, but won't properly display 720p, which is very unfortunate, considering that there are many more 720p XBOX games then there are 1080i games. MVP Baseball in 720p is fricken ridiculous!

2. 480P - Dreamcast was the first console to feature 480p. You need the VGA box for the DC to be able to get it. The vast majority of Dreamcast games are in 480p, but there are a few games that aren't. On the GameCube, the biggest releases usually have 480p, but there are alot of Cube cames that don't feature 480p. The PS2 is starting to get more and more 480p games, but originally, there wasn't any 480p games on the PS2. So it has a ton of non 480p games. And the XBOX is very much like the Dreamcast, in terms of almost every game supporting 480p.

3. Analog RGB - Analog RGB is the best non progressive scan signal you can get. Basically any system that came out prior to the DC, Cube, XBOX and PS2, should be played in analog RGB if at all possible. Starting with the Sega Master system, TurboGrafx-16, Neo-Geo, - Sega Genesis, Sega CD, Super Nintendo, Sega 32X, Atari Jaguar, Sega Saturn, Sony Playstation and Nintendo 64. Unfortunately, the NES and CD-I do not feature RGB output capabilites. The NES, and systems before the NES also don't feature RGB capabilities.

4. 480i via Component - This is your non progressive scan version of component. Not quite as good as pure RGB, but still a bit better than S-Video. Unfortunately, the only system that you can use 480i component with is the Sony Playstation 2. Well, you can also use it with the XBOX, but with the High Def pack, why use 480i component on XBOX. So for all the non 480p PS2 games, if you don't have a real RGB cable for your PS2, then you might as well use the 480i component ability. Some older systems can be made to work on component cables, by modifying RGB cables into component cables. But sometimes the picture is not centered correctly when doing this. So if you can't adjust the size of the picture on your TV horizontally, then this might not be a good idea.

5. S-Video - Starting with the Super Nintendo, S-Video became the big improvement in picture quality that was actually within the grasp of the average consumer. Alot of TV's started including S-Video plugs and then people finally realized that you get better picture quality with it. The SNES, Atari Jaguar, Sega Saturn, Sony Playstation and Nintendo 64 all featured S-Video. RGB would still be much better, but if you can't get the RGB experience, then S-Video would be the best for these systems. Supposedly the Turbografx-16 and Sega Genesis can both be modded for S-Video. There is also the JVC Wondermega, which is a Genesis/Sega CD unit that had S-Video output. Whether or not it is actually a "true" S-Video signal is still questionable. I'm not sure if the early version of the Neo-Geo had S-Video or not. Oh, may other older systems can be modifed to output S-Video, including the Atari 2600!!! Unfortunately, amazing enough the Nintendo NES can't be modified for S-Video!

4. Composite Video - This is that yellow plug. It's definitely better than RF, but it pales in comparison to S-Video. Those of you with NES systems, and those of you with TG-16's but no RGB hook up, should go with the composite video plug. Same thing with Genesis/Sega CD/Sega 32X owners that don't have RGB, or some type of S-Video mod.

5. RF - I would totally avoid RF if at all possible, but I guess if you have an Intellivision or something like that, then RF is the only option.

[Anthony1]

Ok, to clarify, my television will accept any kind of input besides an RGB signal.

I want to know if the list above is accurate. For example, when hooking up my genesis, I want to know the best possible way of doing it, short of messing with the insides (not that I am incapable). So no RGB.


You don't need to mess with the insides to enjoy RGB. All you need is a cheapo RGB monitor and a RGB cable. You can get the RGB monitor on Ebay, and you can get a RGB cable from Matthew the king of RGB cables.


I would highly suggest a Commodore 1084S RGB monitor. These can be found on Ebay for around $35, $40 or so.

Matthew can make RGB cables for pretty damn cheap prices.

He can make them for all your systems.


the_matthew@yahoo.ca


tell him Anthony1 from DP sent you.