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maxlords
07-16-2004, 10:04 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3133485

Setting Sun: What has happened to Japan's gaming industry?

By David F. Smith
July 16, 2004

The Japanese games industry would appear to be screwed at this point. That
is the basic message delivered by the latest CESA White Paper, the annual
report of the Computer Entertainment Suppliers' Association. CESA's survey
chronicled a third consecutive year of steady decline in Japanese hardware
and software revenues, down 11% in 2003 and nearly 40% since the peak of the
PlayStation generation in 1997.

The year of Final Fantasy VII and Pokemon was the beginning of a continuing
boom in North America. Since then, the American games market has grown
steadily into a monster that comfortably supports three platforms and looks
to have another banner year in 2004. In Japan, it was the beginning of a
long, grim slide, briefly interrupted by Dragon Quest.

Aside from the obvious question of what developers and hardware manufactures
can do to kick-start the market again, the figures inspire a kind of
chicken-and-egg problem. Has the industry changed, and stopped selling what
consumers want to buy? Or has the market changed, and stopped buying what
the industry sells?

What Sells, Who's Buying?

In Japan, 1997's big hits were Final Fantasy and Pokemon. 2003's big hits,
six years later, were Final Fantasy, Pokemon, and Dynasty Warriors 4. Times,
they change.

Koei's tactical action series is more or less the only original domestic
platinum hit the Japanese development community has created this generation,
coming out of nowhere to move millions of units across three installments
and three more expansions. Going against the current trend, it's actually
enjoyed increasing sales from sequel to sequel -- Sengoku Musou was one of
only four million-selling Japanese PS2 releases in 2003.

Besides that...Capcom's Onimusha looked to be the genesis of a profitable
new franchise, but in fact its first installment was the only one to go
platinum in Japan, in the software-starved early days of the PS2. Its two
sequels both sold progressively less, and its creators have now turned to a
project designed exclusively for a Western audience, Shadow of Rome. "We're
going to think of the other territories, and after we start to understand
what they like, then maybe we'll be able to see the whole picture," says
producer Keiji Inafune, but it remains to be seen whether this study-abroad
project of his will bring Capcom significant benefit in any part of the
world.

Devil May Cry also came out strong and faltered with its sequel. Konami's
Zone of the Enders debuted on shaky legs, and its second installment,
despite an improved critical reception, fell flat at the box office. Sony
Computer Entertainment, which created massive hits in the 32-bit era, has
comfortably sat back on its Gran Turismo laurels while publishing an endless
string of boutique releases. Drakengard was Japan's best-selling original
game in 2003, struggling to move around a quarter-million units. No original
titles were spotlighted in Sony's 2004 PlayStation awards, only sequels and
licenses.

Everything else to consistently sell in blockbuster-hit quantities since the
advent of the PlayStation 2 is either a sequel to something that was a hit
in the last generation or a license from some other medium (Super Robot
Wars, Winning Eleven, Antonio Inoki pachinko games and the like). Metal Gear
Solid 2; Gran Turismo 3; Soul Calibur II; the Tales series; a profusion of
Final Fantasies; Nintendo's franchise players; and so on.
"Before we've just been looking to Japan," says Keiji Inafune. "Now
it's time to look at the other areas of the world" -- starting with ancient
Rome, evidently.

The failure of the industry to create new successes leaves a continually
expanding gap created by franchises in decline. Konami's Silent Hill horror
adventures have fallen on hard times -- Silent Hill 4 was outsold its first
week by a pachinko game -- and the Tokimeki Memorial franchise's third
installment killed it. After years of dominating the horror genre, Resident
Evil is on shaky legs. Its online debut tanked, and Resident Evil 4 is
confined to the comparatively small GameCube installed base. Characters and
concepts that found currency on the PlayStation are has-beens now -- look
what became of Parappa the Rapper, and in fact the entire rhythm action
genre. Namco's Taiko no Tatsujin has sold steadily through its expansions,
but the followup to Nintendo's Donkey Konga sold a disappointing 32,000
units its first week.

See You On The Other Side

By comparison, the American and European branches of the industry have
created new hits, new characters, and new franchises. Grand Theft Auto is
technically a holdover from the 32-bit age, but it became a success after
completely reinventing itself for PS2. Ubisoft trumped the Japanese stealth
action competition with Splinter Cell, giving the city of Montreal alone as
many or more original platinum hits than Japan as a whole. Electronic Arts
draws plenty of flack for its reliance on established names, but even the
old monolith gave us SSX and the rest of the EA Big lineup. Sony threw out
its PlayStation franchises and started over with Jak and Ratchet & Clank.

The American games industry has grown as a consequence. Entertainment
Software Association figures chart steady growth in North American software
shipments since the dawn of the PlayStation era in 1995 -- $7 billion worth
in 2003. The only year-on-year decline since then took place in 2000, when
the PS2 was on its way in and the Dreamcast was on its way out.

Games People Play
There's a strange irony in the comparison between two sets of figures in the
2003 CESA White Paper. As mentioned above, hardware and software sales are
in decline, and have been for some time. Yet at the top of the survey
summary, it says that 37.6% of the Japanese population "is in continuous
contact with games," compared to only 25.6% in 2002. That's 34.4 million
people who are apparently pretty interested in electronic gaming.

The gaming audience is expanding, then, but it's not necessarily expanding
in traditional areas. Of those 34.4 million, according to CESA's research,
3.4 million are focused on online games, and almost 9 million are fans of
cellular-phone games.

Mobile gaming is only just catching on in the west, but like any trend
related to cellular phones, it started in Japan, where it's rapidly growing
in revenue and popularity. Some independent developers have turned to mobile
gaming as a primary source of income -- shooter developer Cave is a good
example -- and it's penetrated areas of the market that traditional games
can't touch. In an amusingly publicized incident earlier this year, a Diet
member was censured by his colleagues after he was caught playing cell-phone
Tetris during legislative debate.

The proliferation of mobile gaming offers an uncomfortable reminder of
Nintendo president Satoru Iwata's broken-record refrain. More complex games,
he says, "require customers to consume enormous time and energy" playing
them. Iwata may be questionably optimistic about the prospects of the
Nintendo DS, and he's shoving his head in the sand with regard to the
proliferation of online gaming. Here he may have a point, though, especially
in an aging market with fewer and fewer chunks of free time.

Complex, lengthy, story-driven games demand an awful lot of care and feeding
these days, and often offer paradoxically little replay value. DMA Design
hit on a formula with Grand Theft Auto III that balanced the old and the new
effectively -- it offers activities suited to both long stretches of
gameplay and short sittings of cruising or random action. So far, though,
the trends thus inspired haven't caught on in Japanese development, and in
the meantime, pachinko outsells Silent Hill.

Better Luck Next Year

The coming year could see a turnaround for the console business, thanks to a
few key games. Between the beginning of this fall and the end of next
spring, providing their current release dates hold, Final Fantasy XII, Gran
Turismo 4, and Dragon Quest VIII will all hit the market, providing new
installments in the three most popular and lucrative franchises in Japan.
That doesn't solve the problem of creating new hits, but it should sell a
few more consoles even in a saturated market.

That same timeframe will also see two new handheld launches, though, the
outcome of which is a little harder to predict. The PSP promises more of
what we already have (in portable form) -- except Japanese consumers aren't
buying most of what's on offer these days. The DS, meanwhile, promises
something new, different, and original -- except Japanese developers seem to
have a rough time coming up with original concepts right now.

What if they gave a system launch and nobody came? The PSP's as-yet
franchise-dominated lineup of titles is particularly worrisome, because a
new platform's early days are the best time to create new hits. EA succeeded
with SSX largely because of its lack of competition -- were it to debut now,
it wouldn't do nearly as well. Exactly how portable the final hardware
proves to be is another critical issue, since the rise of mobile gaming
suggests that the Japanese market currently favors portability over power.
"Game developers are finding it difficult to make completely unique
software," says Satoru Iwata. A completely unique bit of hardware should be
a start, at least.

The DS is more of a question mark, given the vague nature of its software
lineup at this point, but the current pattern of hardware sales in Japan
bodes ill for its success, given that even the Game Boy Advance missed sales
targets by about 10% in 2003. Nintendo claims the DS will carve out a market
niche for itself, regardless of other handhelds on the market, but we'll see
if that prediction actually pans out.

Where Will It End?

For all this pessimism, it doesn't seem like the Japanese game industry is
going away entirely. CESA still charted more than $10.5 billion in hardware
and software revenue in 2003. The decline has been slow compared to, say,
the American gaming crash of the early '80s (a 35% decline one year, a 60%
drop the next), and a dedicated enthusiast audience remains to follow games
in whatever form developers choose to present them.
The advent of new hardware in the next two to three years suggests things
will get worse before they get better, though, if indeed they ever do.
Conventional wisdom believes that new handheld launches will soften the blow
of a transitional period, but that may not be the case in Japan, where the
development community seems to have a hard time delivering enough compelling
software for even one dominant platform.

Satoru Iwata claims that Nintendo's new handheld will inspire new,
revitalizing game concepts, while Sony touts the crossover potential of the
PSP. Hopefully, for the sake of the games industry at large, they're both
right. It would be unfortunate to look back at 2004 as the beginning of yet
another long, grim slide, briefly interrupted as usual by Dragon Quest.

"Say g'night to da bad guy!"

Maybe it's because Hiroshi Yamauchi's gone. He always did seem
to think the industry would fall to pieces without him.
The western perception of the Japanese business world still
seems to paint it as the usual inscrutable Asian hive mind. Which is too
bad, because in the absence of that overwhelming stereotype, Yamauchi would
be recognized among the unique industrialists of the latter half of the 20th
century. He spent more than 40 years in the fast lane as the gaming world's
answer to Tony Montana -- he had his balls and his word, and he didn't break
them for no one.

Legend has it, in fact, that one of the only known instances of
Yamauchi giving way to anyone screwed Nintendo for the next 10 years. So the
story goes, Yamauchi favored an optical disc format for the Nintendo
64...except that Shigeru Miyamoto couldn't bear to deal with load times in
his games. Which would mean that Yamauchi, for almost 20 years as the head
of a console gaming power, was more or less always right.

Well, except for the Virtual Boy. Somebody has some explaining
to do there.

maxlords
07-16-2004, 10:06 PM
Personally I find the above article shocking. It's disturbing because most of the games I feel are the most fun and innovative come directly from Japan, and those same games are the ones that aren't selling well here or in Japan. I don't like this trend. A 40% drop since 1997 isn't so bad...but an 11% drop just last year is fairly extreme....

tholly
07-16-2004, 10:07 PM
hmmm...ain't that some shit


thats a big drop off in sales for a country that has always seemed to me to be like the video game capital of the world

swlovinist
07-16-2004, 10:39 PM
I know that the report points to the US market being healthy, I dont really know if I can agree. I feel our market is very saturated right now, with a buttload of new games coming out this next Christmas. More is definately not better, it just means that many game companies are going to loose thier ass. With gaming down in Japan, how long before it affects here? We get a considerable amount of our games from Japan, a crash over there will directly affect us here. I really did like the article in general, and I feel that it is only a matter of time before there are more games then the demand and thus a recession.

Cantaloup
07-17-2004, 12:26 AM
I don't really know much about the topic, but as I understand it Japan's economy has been in a recession in recent years. (For articles, go to Yahoo and search for "Japan economy recession".) Maybe this is a factor?

classicb
07-17-2004, 12:50 AM
Personally I find the above article shocking. It's disturbing because most of the games I feel are the most fun and innovative come directly from Japan, and those same games are the ones that aren't selling well here or in Japan. I don't like this trend. A 40% drop since 1997 isn't so bad...but an 11% drop just last year is fairly extreme....

I agree and I think it means we will see fewer companies taking chances on more off beat games and more companies dumping their money into the True Crimes and Grand Theft Auto's of the industry :(

-hellvin-
07-17-2004, 01:06 AM
Perhaps this will cause developers to focus more on making good games.

calthaer
07-17-2004, 01:16 AM
thats a big drop off in sales for a country that has always seemed to me to be like the video game capital of the world

It's only the video game capitol of the world if you have a consoliocentric worldview.

SoulBlazer
07-17-2004, 02:35 AM
Good. Maybe this will mean Japanese companies will create American branches and start making more games that WE want. The Japanese still control a large ammount of what games come over here and what we play, and I'd love to see a return of American game making like in the pre-crash days. Maybe more games will get translated and released over here, or the decline of Japanese gaming will encourge more new American games with unique ideas.

But yeah, part of the reason is also due to Japan's economy just not doing very well these last few years.

kevincure
07-17-2004, 03:15 AM
Japan's economy has been poor for a decade, minimum. In fact, it's on the rebound right now, so the consumer situation should improve a bit.

As for pure unit sales, the US and Europe have both been bigger markets than Japan for many, many years. Madden PS2 in the US will sell more units that nearly any game in Japan.

Part of the problem is Japan is that the growth areas in Asia for games are SE Asia, China, Taiwan and especially Korea. Many of those areas still strongly dislike the Japanese, and the Koreans in particular have rather strict laws regarding the sale of Japanese goods. Essentially, it's very hard to sell a Japanese-made game in Korea. The fact that Japan was very slow to have home internet proliferate hurt its development teams even more.

GunPanther
07-17-2004, 06:20 AM
Thanks for the interesting article. It was a good read.


Funny though....

Video games were invented by Americans, marketed and profited by Americans, improved by the Japanese who then made an even bigger profit and then finally improved yet again, this time, by us Americans.



It's karma. It has to be.







:rockets: GunPanther :2gunfire:

maxlords
07-17-2004, 07:31 AM
Perhaps this will cause developers to focus more on making good games.

I expect that it'll cause exactly the opposite. For developers to focus on making sequels and copies of known successes, and make fewer original good games than ever.

kai123
07-17-2004, 07:51 AM
Perhaps this will cause developers to focus more on making good games.

I expect that it'll cause exactly the opposite. For developers to focus on making sequels and copies of known successes, and make fewer original good games than ever.

That is what I was thinking after I read the article.

musical
07-17-2004, 11:19 AM
It's disturbing because most of the games I feel are the most fun and innovative come directly from Japan...

Sounds like good news to me. I miss the days (80s) when a lot of the innovative stuff came from America & Europe. It'll b refreshing to see new stuff coming from Europe again.



As for Japan, I think they're just bored. They've been playing Final Fantasy & other franchises since 1985, and have grown tired of it. It has a been there/done that quality that fails to drag money from Japanese wallets.

zmweasel
07-17-2004, 01:51 PM
Thanks for the interesting article. It was a good read.

It was a FANTASTIC read. Reminded me why David Smith is the best game journo working today. IGN's loss was ZD's gain.

-- Z.

SoulBlazer
07-17-2004, 03:13 PM
What do you think of the article itself though, Zach? Should we be concerned that games are'nt doing as well in Japan as they used to, or should we be happy about it and hope it means more games Western people will play?

zmweasel
07-17-2004, 09:25 PM
What do you think of the article itself though, Zach? Should we be concerned that games are'nt doing as well in Japan as they used to, or should we be happy about it and hope it means more games Western people will play?

The only topic David doesn't touch upon, possibly because he feels it's not a significant factor in the Japanese market's decline, is the shaky state of the Japanese economy in recent years. I remember WD's prez coming back from a trip to Japan and noting with shock that he'd seen homeless people in a Japanese subway for the first time.

It's a great piece regardless, though. Solid facts, thoughtful analysis, and no fanboi spin.

David's feature also challenged my outdated perception of Japan as a more creative market than America. With the current generation of hardware, David points out that simply hasn't been the case.

I'm excited about the possibility of Japanese developers putting their own spins on Western gameplay, but then, I'm more of an "experience" gamer than a high-score gamer these days.

-- Z.

Last Action Hero
08-26-2004, 07:40 AM
Aside from the obvious question of what developers and hardware manufactures can do to kick-start the market again, the figures inspire a kind of chicken-and-egg problem. Has the industry changed, and stopped selling what consumers want to buy? Or has the market changed, and stopped buying what the industry sells?


I think the answer is, the industry changed and stopped selling what the consumer wants. I've been a gamer since 1982. I've played video games almost everyday of my life since then, and I've always been excited about the future of the industry, but not anymore. It seems that every year there are fewer games that I am interested in buying, and it's not because I'm getting bored of video games, it's because the industry has changed the market that they are trying to sell their product to. They're no longer trying to sell their games to me, the hardcore gamer, because they have come to realize that it's easier to sell games to the clueless masses by making games with fancy graphics and violent themes than to try to impress a gamer of 20 years, that has seen and done it all, with innovative gameplay.

When Nintendo and Sega were in charge it was about creating a fun and addictive game, graphics were important, but not the selling point. With Sony and M$ it's about graphics and violence, gameplay is still important, but it has become secondary to the "cool' factor. Sony and M$ only know marketing, not gaming. But to be successful in the longterm, I think they will need more than marketing skills. Because one day, after many of the casual gamers have played their 50th FPS and GTA clone and Madden 2277 with updated rosters, and the graphics no longer impress, video games will no longer be cool to them, and all the marketing in the world isn't going to save this industry then. Meanwhile, where will the hardcore gamers be?... Probably in their graves... commited suicide from boredom.

Too many over-priced, over-hyped, cinematic, story-driven, time consuming, interactive movies with little to no replay value. These games can be fun, but most are not worth the price of admission.

Me and Japan, I think, want action, twitch-based games that challenge the reflexes, timing and memory, with a few puzzles thrown in to challenge the mind. A total body challenge, physical as well as mental. More demanding, but more rewarding as well. We want a return to the basics. A return to challenging yet simple gameplay. Games that could be played and enjoyed as much for 10 minutes or 10 hours... length not as important as replay value, with the most important reward being improvement of your skill, not just advancing further in the game.

To kickstart the market again, I believe they must kick 3d to the curb. From the very beginning 3d graphics have been used as a distraction from the reality that many games that use them are mediocre or worse gameplaywise. This has attracted people that otherwise would never have become interested in playing video games. And these newly attracted non-gamers buy bad games to be impressed visually, fun gameplay being a bonus. These new gamers do not care for challenge, for that is not why they became interested in video games; they want things they understand in their games like: music, realistic 3d graphics, and an interesting story. They don't understand that video games were once more than just interactive movies or 'walk around for hours looking for the shiny object'. To revitalize the market again and keep the entire video game market from collapsing I believe developers must quit making interacative movies and go back to making challenging and simple 2d games for the hardcore gamer. We HC's are more demanding, but also more predictable and thus the industry would be more stable. The sweet and simple answer is, quit supporting Sony and M$, and start supporting Nintendo exclusively. The more money Nintendo has, the more quality innovative games are created for 3rd parties to copy from.

EnemyZero
08-26-2004, 08:22 AM
I'm feeling sick :bawling: and want to cry....Japanese games are so much more inventive...but then again i can understand why...this generation of gaming is rather dull..and just left overs from the 32 bit era...hopefully next gen will be a jump for good..like from snes to playstation...it was that first 3D wow that pushed gaming in a good way..but this gen is just same ole same ole...i think more and more developers are pushing polygons over fun

Last Action Hero
08-26-2004, 10:19 AM
I'm feeling sick :bawling: and want to cry....Japanese games are so much more inventive...but then again i can understand why...this generation of gaming is rather dull..and just left overs from the 32 bit era...hopefully next gen will be a jump for good..like from snes to playstation...it was that first 3D wow that pushed gaming in a good way..but this gen is just same ole same ole...i think more and more developers are pushing polygons over fun

polygons = bad :o

RCM
08-26-2004, 10:21 AM
The article was pretty good. He should have touched on the decline of the Japanese economy. By that omission, it leaves me with the impression that he feels that that has very little to do with the decline of videogame revenues. Less money in consumers hands could certainly mean less money in publishers hands.

Also, to my fellow hardcore gamers, wake up. Companies aren't going to cater to you. Just deal with that fact. Hardcore gamers as a group are vocal but are an extremely small part of the market. Videogames are art and videogames are business. The point of almost every business is to make money. If they target us they most likely aren't going to make much money.

Also, I find it laughable when people look at the "good old days." Back then it was "gameplay over graphics." Please.

Would it be fair to say that to an extent graphics still don't matter? The average PS2 title has inferior image quality compared to the average GC or Xbox title. It would seem to me that graphics might not matter as much as you think.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

fahrvergnugen
08-26-2004, 10:46 AM
Uh...
Most everyone who wants an XBox at this point, has one.
Most everyone who wants a Gamecube at this point, has one.
Most everyone who wants a PS2 at this point, has one.

In fact, quite a few people (like my brother, for instance) have one or more than one of the above, and are now bored with it and have stopped buying games.

The market's saturated, that's all. Of course sales are down.

Mr.FoodMonster
08-26-2004, 01:18 PM
I remember hearing that the reason behind the downword trend is because of the general economic situation over in Japan. Its not that they are becoming less intrested, its that they just dont have the money to blow on all the games they want.

ubersaurus
08-26-2004, 01:23 PM
When Nintendo and Sega were in charge it was about creating a fun and addictive game, graphics were important, but not the selling point. With Sony and M$ it's about graphics and violence, gameplay is still important, but it has become secondary to the "cool' factor. Sony and M$ only know marketing, not gaming.

.

So Crimson Skies and Mechassault are awful games? Halo is inferior to Pokemon Channel?

MS's game studios are basically made up of hardcore gamers. I'd hardly say that they can't make any good games, because they can.

3d is just like 2d-a good game is really good, and a bad game is total trash. And like 2d, there's ALOT of bad 3d games. You can't just single that out as an issue.

kevincure
08-26-2004, 08:05 PM
This isn't new. For the PSX, 20 million pieces of software were sold in Japan + Asia, while almost 40 million were sold in both Europe and the US. Japan is still important for gaming, but the real money is in the US and EUR, and has been for a decade.

Ed Oscuro
08-26-2004, 10:51 PM
I like older games out of Japan...Ever since they started rendering anime characters in 3D I've been turned off. Good gameplay in some of these titles, and good graphics in some, but the style aspect seems uncomfortable for me in many of the new games, and so I'm staying with the systems I know I like for the time being.

lendelin
08-26-2004, 11:00 PM
It is a very good article, somebody at last used some numbers and substantial arguments, and necessary distinctions to make a case.

The situation is very complex, and the article addresses too many aspects to respond properly.

Just two straightforward things:

1. The economic slow-down in Japan plays a role for sure and is underrated in the article! No question about that the state of the economy has an impact on the entertainment industry as a whole. To make an assessment how well the videogame industry is doing in Japan, I'd like to see a comparison to other entertainment branches in Japan. (movies, Pc games, DVD movie sales, rentals for movies AND games, different kinds of electronic hardware, toy sales in general, etc.)

More importantly, I'd like to see the misery index (a combination of GDP, inflation, and unempoyment rate) applied to America, Europe, and Japan and compared to the measured success of the videogame industry (?? big problem) in each country. Without it, we are merely speculating.

Europe (let's say the EC countries) didn't do so well economically in the last ten years either, yet, the industry seems to be "healthier" than in Japan. With a comparison you could get indicators how important actually the economic situation is for the game industry performance in each country and ACROSS countries. A comparison betwen Europe and Japan would tell you much more than a comparison between the US and Japan.

2. The article answers the so called chicken and egg question itself without making it clear. It's the changed market situation, not the change of the industry which seems responsible for the Japanese situation. New franchises are successful, or sequels who changed gameplay a lot (with the exception of Dragon Quest VII); increases of mobile gaming and more success for shorter and uncomplicated games seem to indicate (I'm very careful, there are a LOT of question marks) that the market changed and Japanese developers didn't follow.

The problem I have with it is that I don't know WHO (age groups, income brackets, gender, etc.) spends HOW MUCH for WHICH games and plays them how often. This goes in particular for mobile gaming, but also for console gaming. If the author of the article did have this data, he should have used it. If he doesn't have this data, well, then he did a great job making cases without them.

I think that Japanese developers didn't follow market trends. They got stuck to a higher extent than American and European developers along separation lines for traditional genres; American developers mixed traditional genres to a higher extent, and additionally deliver movie-like experiences in gameplay and less in in CGI sequences. Both trends are appealing and attractive and follow changes in leisure time activities.

Who would have thought that Read Dead Revolver would be a success in the US? Even more astonishing, the success came by using the western genre which is out in movies and games for thirty years now?

Japanese developers have to be careful. Themes form America in general are appealing to Japanese audiences as movies prove. There is a cultural obstacle, but one which can be overcome.

Last Action Hero
08-27-2004, 06:45 AM
So Crimson Skies and Mechassault are awful games? Halo is inferior to Pokemon Channel?

MS's game studios are basically made up of hardcore gamers. I'd hardly say that they can't make any good games, because they can.

3d is just like 2d-a good game is really good, and a bad game is total trash. And like 2d, there's ALOT of bad 3d games. You can't just single that out as an issue.


I never said those are awful games. And I never said Microsoft can't make good games, though I highly doubt that they have the capabilities to, otherwise they would prove it by making good games.

I'm saying that gameplay is not as important to them as graphics and gimmicks. Maybe cause that's what they think the consumer wants or, more likely, that is all they are capable of producing.

I've not played Mech Assault and only played the PC version of Crimson Skies, but from my experience with playing popular Xbox and PS2 games, most use nice graphics, online play, violent themes, and a "cool" image to distract you from realizing their games are average at best. Just imagine Crimson Skies or Halo with PS1 graphics and no online play, and then tell me I'm wrong.

thegreatescape
08-27-2004, 07:19 AM
The only "average" games MS have made IMO were their early PC efforts such as Hellbinder, Deadly Tide (i liked it though) , et al. Japan isnt the be all and end all of inventiveness if you take into account games that dont make it out of japan (dating sims, pachinko, mahjong, hentai, etc).

I look forward to the japanese economy improving so we can have 4* awesome game producing regions again.

*Australia has Melbourne House/Beam. Thats gotta count for something!

EnemyZero
08-27-2004, 07:37 AM
Uber I don't think he was saying there not capable of making good games, I think he means, and I think so too is that the ratio of GOOD games over bad ones were much higher on older consoles....seriously when I go video game shopping I look at a wall of about 70 games and I'm lucky if 1 out of every 10 interest me...with genny or even sega saturn, theres a hell of a lot more games that I accually wan't t buy

Last Action Hero
08-27-2004, 07:57 AM
OK, I'm already starting to dislike the people on this board. I will go back to lurking now. BYE!

SoulBlazer
08-27-2004, 08:34 AM
Wow, that did'nt take long.

Oh well, survival of the fittest. :D

EnemyZero
08-27-2004, 09:38 AM
LOL

sniperCCJVQ
08-27-2004, 09:43 AM
:above me: