Me venting over an insane paypal issue

[Sega Hitman]

Yesterday I logged onto paypal for the first time in a month or so to send QOF some money. I about crapped when I saw that my balance in negative $731 or something to that affect. Please read and assist if I haven't already done everything I can.

In May I sold a lot of around 100 DVD's on the bay. The lot sold for $755 after shipping. The buyer, who has been since suspended by ebay, took a month to send payment. I had to email him weekly threatning to sell to someone else. He finally came through one day, and I was pretty stoked. This money has since been spent on tons of different things all over the place. Keep in mind I'm 18 here, that was a lot of money for me. I took about 2 weeks to send his package. I was carless at the time, and since he jerked me around, it didn't seem like a big deal to me.

I logged on yesterday to find this shock. The douche got them to reverse charges July 1st, I just happened to see it the 24th. I immediately shot Paypal an email, seeing as I have delivery confirmation and insurance reciepts, as well as the original reciept from the USPS. His package was sent. Everything was perfect. Ebay banned him. Why in God's name is this charge on my account? They replied sooner than expected, and they wanted my delivery confirmation number. No problem. I checked myself, and he got the package June 17th, he must have signed for it.

I get an email today stating that since I didn't meet some sort of Seller protection criteria, that I'm basically screwed. Since his package wasn't sent in 7 days, they act like I have no leg to stand on. This has nothing to do with absolutely anything. He paid for his items, he recieved his items, therefore, why the hell do I owe Paypal over $700?

Well, today I called up customer service. Had a 15 minute talk with a nice girl. She says even though it shows "completed" status, she's sent it back to whoever was in charge of it for review. Thats good. I'm hoping somebody over in that department can see that I'm not at fault for anything here. "What if they don't rule in my favor?", I asked. Well, then they'll want me to pay this whopping bill, or they'll send it to collections.

Now, what the hell exactly do I do from here? Obviously, I'm going to sit patiently and hope that the right person gets ahold of this tomorrow, and fixes everything for me. Somebody who speaks like a human being and doesn't read paypal terms of service to me again. Hopefully God will be watching over me here. If this doesn't go in my favor though, what possible recourse do I have? Sue some random guy in Georgia? I'm 18 here, do I really want to bring a lawyer into this.

Is there anybody I can complain too that might actually be of assistance to me? Some website or some Better Business Bureua kind of person. I dunno, I'm at a loss. I'm worried sick here though seeing as I really didn't need this in my life. I cancelled the bank account paypal knows about, so I'm in no urgent emergency, but man does this suck.

-Hitman-

[Jibbajaba]

Is it just me or does it seem like this guy intentionally jerked you around for almost a month so that you wouldnt meet the neccesary criteria with paypal? You are saying that they are giving you shit about not sending the package in 7 days, right? Maybe he designed it that way. Basically what you are saying here is that he took your shit, and then told Paypal that you never sent the package right? I know you are "only 18" and all, but you can't lay down and let people fuck with you like that. He is committing fraud, and if I were you I would be on the phone with some law enforcement people seeing what your options are.

Chris

[musical]

www.paypalsucks.com

Enlighten yourself, and be careful when dealing with paypal.



GOOD NEWS. Since your balance is negative, there's nothing paypal can do. You can close the account, forget about it, and you've lost nothing.

[Achika]

GOOD NEWS. Since your balance is negative, there's nothing paypal can do. You can close the account, forget about it, and you've lost nothing.

Say what now? He's sold DVDs and shipped them so he does not have the DVDs in his possesion now nor does he have all the money for them.

[Griking]

I was under the impression that he'd already spend the money on sex drugs and alcoh..., well other things before Paypal issued the chargeback. For his Paypal account to be negative $700+ he had to have a balance of almost zero before the chargeback.

[Sega Hitman]

Griking is right, somewhat. No sex and such. I did spend the money, and the paypal account was empty. Thats why I'm in the negative right now.

From what I keep hearing, Paypal will take this to collections. I may have to get a lawyer involved, this whole situation is quite stinky.

-Hitman-

[Jibbajaba]

I dont know from experience, but common sense says that there is no way that paypal doesnt send this to collections. There are places where you can report this guy. I just saw a link in a different thread. look around.

Chris

[punkoffgirl]

I'm wondering if you might want to get in touch with anyone YOU sent money to recently with PayPal. Knowing how they operate, I wouldn't be too surprised if they took the money back from those people by saying it was fraudulent funds.

[Sega Hitman]

Luckily since that auction ended, I haven't bought or sold anything online whatsoever. I'm sure a lot of people would be pretty pissed off had their accounts been closed for the same bogus reason. What really ticks me off though is that they never even told me that I recieved fraudulent funds. I NEVER got an email about this. I only stumbled onto it when I logged in a few days ago. It would be great if I recieved an explanation for all this, but I haven't.

As far as going after the guy with the possible fraudulent funds who caused the chargeback, I don't see how much good that would do. It'd take forever to actually track him down, if I possibly could, and then if I wanted to take him to court, I'd have to be flying down to Georgia. As far as I'm concerned, the blame is 100% on Paypal in this situation. I've proved that he recieved the package, yet they still expect me to pay them over $700. IMO, it's totally their loss. If the loser really did have fraudulent funds, then they should have his account in the negative, not mine. I didn't do anything wrong.

-Hitman-

[anagrama]

Yup, in this kind of situation, Paypal are happy to fuck you over a barrel.
I lost $80 a couple of years back when an American buyer issued a fraudulent chargeback against me, and the only thing Paypal would say to me was "Sorry, we can't help you because you're outside the US". C*nts.

The only I could say is that if you have any credit cards linked to your Paypal account dis-associate them IMMEDIATELY. Then sit happy and refuse to pay a penny. Wish I had been able to when it happened to me :(

[Sega Hitman]

UPDATE. Today I received an email from the original buyer out of nowhere. I didn't even think emailing him would do me any good. I was under this false impression that he did a false chargeback, and tried to take the money and run. I thought even if his email account was still open, there's no way he'd actually respond to an email. Well, Paypal is apparently screwing him too. He didn't give me many details, but he said something to the affect that this all should be over soon. I'm excited about that.

This really goes to show you what a crazy company this is. I send them absolute proof that I did send this package, and that he did recieve it. He's going at it on his end too, yet they still have money on apparently 3 seperate accounts all in the negative. I may never go back to Paypal after crap like this.

[tholly]

well...i read over everything and i just wanted to say good luck on not getting fucked over by paypal....

[Azazel]

It's cases like this why I'll only use Paypal for buying and not for selling.

[GunPanther]

It's cases like this why I'll only use Paypal for buying and not for selling.



I'm actually not using PayPal at all.

Too much of a headache and you're literally at their mercy when something goes wrong, even if you weren't responsible for it.









:rockets: GunPanther :2gunfire:

[sisko]

UPDATE. Today I received an email from the original buyer out of nowhere. I didn't even think emailing him would do me any good. I was under this false impression that he did a false chargeback, and tried to take the money and run. I thought even if his email account was still open, there's no way he'd actually respond to an email. Well, Paypal is apparently screwing him too. He didn't give me many details, but he said something to the affect that this all should be over soon. I'm excited about that.

This really goes to show you what a crazy company this is. I send them absolute proof that I did send this package, and that he did recieve it. He's going at it on his end too, yet they still have money on apparently 3 seperate accounts all in the negative. I may never go back to Paypal after crap like this.

Thats a twist.

If he didn't file a chargback, then how are you out $755?

[musical]

Now we know why Paypal is involved in a class-action suit. This sounds like the criminal is neither the seller nor the buyer... but Paypal the company.

BTW, I submitted my $50 claim. They've screwed me too, but the dollar amount was so small, I didn't bother to pursue it.

'Til now.

[Azazel]

UPDATE. Today I received an email from the original buyer out of nowhere. I didn't even think emailing him would do me any good. I was under this false impression that he did a false chargeback, and tried to take the money and run. I thought even if his email account was still open, there's no way he'd actually respond to an email. Well, Paypal is apparently screwing him too. He didn't give me many details, but he said something to the affect that this all should be over soon. I'm excited about that.

This really goes to show you what a crazy company this is. I send them absolute proof that I did send this package, and that he did recieve it. He's going at it on his end too, yet they still have money on apparently 3 seperate accounts all in the negative. I may never go back to Paypal after crap like this.

Thats a twist.

If he didn't file a chargback, then how are you out $755?

That's actually a good question. Since you said you spent the money already you shouldn't be out anything other than your Paypal balance. Unless you left the $700.00 in your Paypal account and bought all that other stuff with your credit card and were going to transfer the funds to your bank account at a later date?

[halbert]

Hitman, sorry to hear about this! A recent chargeback on my account for $165.00 hasn't been resolved in 3 weeks, despite the fact that I have called and emailed Paypal, telling them to just refund the guy's money... What a bullshit company. :angry: Hopefully things will work out for you, though! :D

[musical]

P.S. Never leave money laying in paypal. As soon as the sale is done, transfer it to the bank. (Just my own advice to myself)

[Sega Hitman]

My account was empty when paypal randomly decided to charge me. I have -$730 something in the account right now. I'm in no immediate harm, they don't actually have any of my money, but this is still enough to piss me off like crazy. From what I've heard, a few months from now, they may start to threaten with a collection agency.

According to the buyer, this is apparently what happened. Somebody charged him back on a large lot of dvd's. When there wasn't enough money in his account to pay for it, Paypal decided to suck money out of other accounts to cover the money given to the actual real scammer in all of this. There are a 3 other people that are apparently in the same position I am, although they might be screwed worse. They might have actually had money in their accounts.

This thread's only purpose is to satisfy me and give me a place to complain, but let this be a lesson to all of you. This company is run by idiots, and you may very well lose a lot of money (hell, anyone with a premier account is. the fees are crazy). I never thought this kind of thing would happen to me. I thought this kind of stuff only happened to people who in some way had it coming. I definitely didn't have this coming. Be warned.

-Hitman-

[Funk Buddy]

Yep PP can be scary at times. My favorite deal with them was when I got screwed as a buyer for well over $1000. I went right to my CC company instead of PP and they sent me a nasty gram stating I could lose my account if I didn't deal with them first. Oh well... I wasn't taking any chances. :D

[Azazel]

Hitman, sorry to hear about this! A recent chargeback on my account for $165.00 hasn't been resolved in 3 weeks, despite the fact that I have called and emailed Paypal, telling them to just refund the guy's money... What a bullshit company. :angry: Hopefully things will work out for you, though! :D

You probably would of been better off just to refund the money yourself versus calling and emailing Paypal to refund the money. Did they charge you any kind of charge back fee or anything?

There are a lot of people who have had chargebacks and didn't do anything wrong. Your right about the premier account. The only reason I had one at one time was because I was taking in more than $1,000.00 a month in which case they more or less force you to upgrade to a Premier or Business account.

I know they have that big Payapl litagation right now. Too bad I won't be able to get any money from it most likely. :angry:

[musical]

Somebody charged back the buyer on a large lot of dvd's. When there wasn't enough money in his account to pay for it, Paypal decided to suck money out of other accounts

Sounds like the stories on http://www.paypalsucks.com PayPal routinely does these things to cover their own assesets.

[Griking]

My account was empty when paypal randomly decided to charge me. I have -$730 something in the account right now. I'm in no immediate harm

There may not be any immediate harm but something else to think about is that you can no longer us the bank or credit card account that was attached to this Paypal account. Once you deposit a dime into one of the accounts its going to be absorbed to cover the negative balance.

Also, setting up new bank and credit accounts can be a real pain in the ass, especially if the negative balance somehow affects your credit rating.

[Azazel]

You might be better off just to close your Paypal account. Do you plan to do much selling on Ebay ever again?

Actually adding a Credit Card and Bank account isn't that much of a hassle. All you have to is just give the necessary information. For the bank account they give you 2 deposit between .01 to 99 cents to your bank account. You just have to call your bank or go online and get those 2 amounts. For the credit card they charge your credit card $1.95 and give you a 4 number code you have to enter. There suppose to refund the 1.95 when you make your first payment through payal. The person that bought up about the credit rating has a good point. You might want to check your credit report and see if Paypal is listed on it?

[Sega Hitman]

Closing my account isn't going to do any good. Paypal will try to get my money whether the account is open or not. Apparently I have like 120 days or something before they send it to collections, and then a couple more months before it'll show up on my credit report. If something isn't done within a few weeks though, I'm gonna have a lawyer send them a dirty note. From what I hear, Paypal immediately shys away at the first sign of lawyers.

-Hitman-

[boozi2]

Wow, good luck solving that. $700+ isn't such a small amount of money. I have to go through a buyer complaint process since a fucking scammer scammed me ($75) :( . Anyone has any idea how long this shit takes to get over with?

[Azazel]

Wow, good luck solving that. $700+ isn't such a small amount of money. I have to go through a buyer complaint process since a fucking scammer scammed me ($75) :( . Anyone has any idea how long this shit takes to get over with?

I think it generally take anymore up to a month before you'll hear back from them. If you file something over the condition of items generally your success rate is not as high. I've filed through Paypal 3 times over never getting my items and I've won or gotten my items eventually each time.

That's kind of sad that you'll have to get a lawyer involved in this. I would think that Paypal would just try to charge your bank account, credit card, or both but the way they operate is really weird. It kind of surprising they haven't done anything yet from the horror stories that other people have told me.

[boozi2]

I've filed a complaint since I never got my items... Hope I'll get the money ASAP....

[boozi2]

Any updates Hitman? Anyone else who had to deal with the buyer complaint process?

[Azazel]

I've gone through the process about 4 times myself. You should hear a response from Paypal within 30 days after the day you filed the complaint.

[boozi2]

Damn.... 30 days... some ppl told me it took em to get the money back between 10-15 after the complaint was filed... O_O

[Azazel]

It really depends one case to another. The generic email they'll send you after you file the claim will say something we'll investigate your case and try to give you a a response in 30 days. I have gotten a repsonse in 10 to 15 days on a few of the times i've filed a claim.

[boozi2]

Ok, that sounds like a reasonable number of days. Did they take $10 out of the chargeback? Or did they refund the whole amount?

[Azazel]

the chargeback would be charged to the seller so you shouldn't have to worry about. I got the full amount one time 75% of the amount another time, the 2 other times I settled it with seller before Paypal issued a verdict on the claim.

[boozi2]

Thx a lot for ur help Azazel :D

[boozi2]

I hate paypal so much............. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

That's the email I got from them....

Case ID: PP-043-923-099
Transaction Date: Jul. 20, 2004
Transaction Amount: -$75.00 USD
Seller's Email: nperson@usnet.ven.cc
Seller's Name: Nancy Person

After careful review, we have determined that the seller is at fault but
regret to inform you that we were unable to recover any funds from the
seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery of funds
associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed.

If this transaction took place on eBay, we encourage you to contact eBay.
If the transaction was for an amount greater than $25.00 USD, you may
qualify for partial reimbursement under eBay's Standard Purchase Protection
Program. If this transaction took place on another auction site, we
encourage you to contact that auction site to see if they offer insurance
or dispute resolution.

We appreciate your business and apologize for any inconvenience this
situation may have caused. Please know that we will make our best effort to
recover the funds in question if they become available in the seller's
account in the future. Please also be assured that we will take appropriate
action against the seller. Such action may include issuing a warning, a
temporary restriction, or terminating the account. Keep in mind that PayPal
uses a number of factors to determine when to take action, including member
complaints. Due to privacy concernslaws, we cannot discuss the details of
any action taken. We hope you understand our policy and that it assures you
that you are safe using PayPal.

Now what? :(
Btw, I've just found out the person's phone number... Any suggestions?

[Azazel]

Since you have the seller's number and you didn't get your item or money back might as well try calling the person and see what happens. :D

You could try filing something with your bank or CC company depending on how you paid through Paypal. There's no gurantee and most likely Paypal will try to do something to cover there asses as always. :eek 2: Now you get to see first hand why there involved in so many lawsuits. @_@

[boozi2]

They are? @_@ I think I'll have to call that bastard...
Dunno what else to do....

[Azazel]

There's a thread in either the main forum or the off topic one about it. Just do a search and you can find it. Depending on when you opened your account you should of got an email about the lawsuit like many of us already have.

[boozi2]

I'll try it out. Thx again. Hope I'll manage to get my money somehow.... :o