Metroid Prime bundle-GC loses a port.

[YoshiM]

I don't read the board on IGN all that much these days but Tuesday I just happened upon a little nugget o' information regarding the new Metroid/Gamecube bundle Nintendo put together. According to Matt from IGN, Nintendo removed the component output on the back of Gamecubes "because we [Nintendo] found that less than one percent of all Gamecube players used that feature" (quoted from a response by Nintendo). You can read a response to Matt's outburst [url="http://cube.ign.com/mail.html"]here[/here] and you can click on the 8-17-04 mailbag when IGN decides to fix its internal links to see the original rant. What really takes the cake is that Metroid Prime, hailed as a modern classic by many, supports progressive scan for those with sets that have it. Borrowing from the Soup Nazi in regards to new customers buying the bundle who hope to use the power of their high end sets: "No Progressive Scan for you!"

Okay, I can understand cutting some extras on consoles to save money to sell it at a lower price point. Sony did away with the RCA style A/V outputs on the Playstation and eventually the serial port. However the PS1 could still hook up to TVs using the Sony A/V cable. The serial port wasn't strongly supported except for Gameshark-type devices (that I'm aware of anyway) so removing it really didn't "hinder" future gaming on the console. The only people really hurt are those that used cheat devices or any other oddball things Sony may not have supported anyway.

The Cube situation is different. With entertainment technology advancing at fast rates and high end video equipment becoming less and less expensive, people are going to begin to start buying TVs that support progressive scan. With competing game systems supporting it, DVD players less than $100 supporting it why would you yank this port out? Essentially, Nintendo took a step backwards. What makes it more interesting is that Nintendo supposedly is going to continue to support the Cube even when the Revolution comes out (which I believe they state is just another "pillar" like the DS and not replacing anything) which I would believe would have progressive scan capability to remain competitive. So...why would you cripple the video of new Cubes? Wouldn't you want it to remain a viable platform if you are still supporting it? :roll:

Now I know that there isn't a lot of people who have HDTV (I don't) but I still feel that Nintendo is not thinking ahead with this decision and screwing new customers not only by removing the port but also bundling said system with a game that SUPPORTS the special feature.

[Querjek]

Damn, now I need to get one of those...


Why didn't Nintendo just remove serial pot #2? Nothing uses it.

[fahrvergnugen]

In Nintendo's defense, it's not until recently that you could even get your hands on the GC progressive-scan cable without sending away to Nintendo for it.

Still, that's a bummer. Getting a true 60FPS out of games (instead of being limited to the NTSC standard 30 refreshes in interlaced mode) is really, really awesome, although it makes my g/f sick during Pac-Man World 2.

EDIT: Hey waitaminute.. That's not contributing to Nintendo's defense at all, is it. I mean, they put the port on, then made it impossible to use it by not offering the component cable at retail, and now say they're following market demand by removing it?

Those jerks.

[Nez]

I guess they didn't remove the serial port #2 becoue they might have something in store for it. Well I'm guessing that is what Nintendo is thinking.

[tholly]

i would have used that port, but i couldnt get the cable, so i just went with s-video and went component with my ps2 and xbox instead

nintendos 1% user rate is because no one has ever friggin seen the cable in real life

oh well, maybe the next gen system will actually let you buy the cable

[kai123]

Uh..they did this in Japan a LONG time ago. It was only a matter of time before it happened here. Stop whining so much you guys have it so bad, wait you all already have GCs. So how does this affect you? It doesn't they are cutting corners on something that nobody uses. Big loss there.

[SegaTecToy]

Sega started doing dumb things like this one and look what happened to them...

[EnemyZero]

Its a rather silly thing to do because I'm sure more than 1% use it ...where the hell are they getting there info from? meh.....anywho the metroid bundle is worth crap anyways unless you don't own a gcn yet - to bad it wasn't a special edition console, instead of a plain old platinum cube :o

[rbudrick]

Chances are, those who actually use that feature already had the setup they wanted....enthusiasts tend to grab shit up early, so this is hardly an issue.

-ROb

[kai123]

Its a rather silly thing to do because I'm sure more than 1% use it ...where the hell are they getting there info from? meh.....anywho the metroid bundle is worth crap anyways unless you don't own a gcn yet - to bad it wasn't a special edition console, instead of a plain old platinum cube :o

Yes 1% of users who already own a GC use it. So it is a throw away feature. Why is this even an issue?

[Half Japanese]

Regardless of your stance on the issue, you have to admire the sheer irony of the component-less system being bundled with one of the poster children for progressive-scan GCN games. I got my cable back in January and I wouldn't use anything else. Nintendo is not seeing a high percentage of users taking advantage of this capability due to the fact that they do not put the cables in stores. Hell, back when the cables were on backorder at Nintendo.com, I found maybe TWO sites that sold the cable, and one just resold the Nintendo cable for a higher price. People won't buy what they never see and aren't even aware exists. It's that simple.

[lendelin]

With entertainment technology advancing at fast rates and high end video equipment becoming less and less expensive, people are going to begin to start buying TVs that support progressive scan. With competing game systems supporting it, DVD players less than $100 supporting it why would you yank this port out? Essentially, Nintendo took a step backwards.

I completely agree. That is really a bad decision. I have all the current gen systems on component video, and I prefer X-box versions of multi-platform games because most games run in progressive scan. (I don't have an HDTV yet, but someday I will, and so will most people.)

Prices for progressive scan DVD players dropped to around $50, and N cuts off one of the most important features today and in the future for graphics quality?

N could learn a lot from Sony and MS when it comes to support of high-end electronic accessories for game systems. They have a system which is able of progressive scan, delivers fantastic graphics if the hardware is used to its full potential, and they go in a different direction than consumer tastes. A really bad decision.

[davidbrit2]

The real reason you can't find component cables anywhere:

Gamecube doesn't have component video output. It has a digital video output instead. The component cable itself actually has the circuitry to take the digital output and generate an analog component signal. So that pretty much explains why you can't find a 3rd party cable anywhere.

As for why Nintendo doesn't sell them retail, it's probably related to the foolishness that makes them release a "broadband adapter", when their only supporting games are playable only over an ethernet LAN. And cabled ethernet is baseband, not broadband. Whee.

[Melf]

EDIT: Hey waitaminute.. That's not contributing to Nintendo's defense at all, is it. I mean, they put the port on, then made it impossible to use it by not offering the component cable at retail, and now say they're following market demand by removing it?

Those jerks.

Exactly. But then again, this is the same company that says more people want to hook up 4 GBAs to their system than play online. Such retarded behavior should be expected of them.

[tededfred]

I emailed Nintendo about this. Thats about the best you can do at this point. The need to realise that gamers do care about graphics and just because they (nintendo) want to have a game console and not a multimedia box, doesn't mean that they should cripple it's output. Help them realise so they don't make similar mistakes in the future.

[wberdan]

finding gamecubes with the output should still be easy for many years.
the important question, in my mind, is: are the programmers going to stop making the games utilize the progressive scan feature because of this move?
i use an iscan pro with the GC anyway, with an s-video hook up. so i dont really care either way.
and everyone is right- the lack of that cables availability is the reason i (and im sure many others) dont own one.


willie

[YoshiM]

Uh..they did this in Japan a LONG time ago. It was only a matter of time before it happened here. Stop whining so much you guys have it so bad, wait you all already have GCs. So how does this affect you? It doesn't they are cutting corners on something that nobody uses. Big loss there.

And...


Yes 1% of users who already own a GC use it. So it is a throw away feature. Why is this even an issue?

Methinks you miss "the big picture". No pun intended.

With any game system, the point is to get as large of a user base as possible. Simple marketing and economics. The more game consoles sold the more likely that games for the system will be purchased (which is the real bread und butter). So from a gamer/consumer viewpoint (the ones who pay the money to get offered systems and games) Nintendo made two shots into the Cube's foot with this bundle:

Bullet 1: The system's competitiveness and possible longetivity has been damaged.

Xbox has progressive scan. PS2 has it. OLD Cubes have the capability (with mentioned specialized cable). We are at the mid life to downward slope of the current generations where games are going to (hopefully) pull out all the stops as developers finally have a grasp (again, hopefully) of the technology. And by technology I don't mean just gameplay, even though it should be a primary factor of games, but visuals. As I mentioned before, the stuff seen on high end TVs is now filtering down to a more "consumer" level. With the push for sharp quality video people will buy the new sets. With those new sets you want equipment that's going to exploit the features. If people who own these TVs jump into the gaming with the Cube (which will happen, especially when games like the new Zelda arrive) they are going to be in for a shock when they buy that minty fresh Cube off the floor. No support for progressive. And anyone who even has composite (step above S-Video) will tell you it's a VERY noticable difference, even to non-videophiles.

This can create consumer disappointment and mistrust-will a disappointed customer buy the Revolution? Will it support what I own or what is coming down the pike in entertainment technology?

Bullet #2: Bundling a game that has progressive scan with a system that doesn't.

Like I said, if you have the technology why not use it? So when a prospective Cube customer looks at the bundle (heck maybe just the game) and sees "Progressive Scan" and they know they have it (DVD thingie is hooked up that way and looks mighty fine) they will use the feature. But to their surprise they will find that the hardware they bought (in the bundle for sure and probably even from separate off-the-shelf systems and no there is no way of knowing what doens't have what AFAIK) won't support a feature that the game that was included has. Like Metal Gear Solid, you'll probably see a big "?" over their head. No special adapter to get it to work. No cable. Your new Cube doesn't have it. Period. Thank you for purchasing our fine Nintendo product. Even as a Cube owner that has the feature, I find that to be a swift kick to the consumer collective's nut sack.

I'll end this long post now as I've got Nintendo conspiracy theories and other doom n' gloom running through my head.

[soniko_karuto]

i just wanted to point out something with this cable thingie.

you say that it ain't possible that only around 1% only use it.
you said that only nintendo sells this cables.

so if nintendo says that around 1% use them, don't you think that they do have a real statistic there?

yeah sure crap, it sucks to get a downgraded something, but still they are selling the cubes at a loss i believe.

[fahrvergnugen]

Sure they have a real statistic, what's that got to do with anything?

If I only make cables available to 10% of my total market, and 1% of the total market buys them, that's called a great success. That's massive market penetration!

It's like the electric car fiasco out here. They used to sell an all-electric GM car in the SF Bay, and the waiting list for it was over 3 years. But GM only made a few hundred available every year. Eventually, they shut the program down, citing low sales numbers, since they'd only sold a few hundred a year.

[YoshiM]

i just wanted to point out something with this cable thingie.

you say that it ain't possible that only around 1% only use it.
you said that only nintendo sells this cables.

so if nintendo says that around 1% use them, don't you think that they do have a real statistic there?

yeah sure crap, it sucks to get a downgraded something, but still they are selling the cubes at a loss i believe.

True, but not every Cube owner is web savvy and looks to see if they can get it. Many would rather buy it off the shelf than go through the "hassle" of ordering it online.

Out of sight...out of mind.

[FantasiaWHT]

YoshiM I think you meant component, not composite cables. composite = Red/Yellow/White cables, the basic set.

Hey does anybody have a list of GC games that currently support HD or Progressive Scan?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm...I just use S-Video, but someday it will be nice to use my GameCube on an HDTV setup... :X

[FantasiaWHT]

http://144.92.43.200/hdg/hdg.asp?submit=ShowGames

For a list of progressive-scan enabled GC games... quite a few more than I originally thought, wow.

[Half Japanese]

For another resource, try www.hdtvarcade.com which has a little better layout (at least on Opera) than the previous site. Both are good resources however.

Also, it's worth noting that the backs of the packages can be entirely worthless for determining whether or not a game supports progressive scan, both for Xbox and Gamecube. The ps2, on the other hand, has so few games that really use it that it's not really even worth the time.

[whoisKeel]

Dreamcast supports progressive scan?

[soniko_karuto]

it appears to be that way :/ i am also impressed.

[davidbrit2]

Dreamcast supports progressive scan?

If you're using the VGA box and a VGA monitor, you're getting progressive scan. I'm not sure if it'll do HDTV progressive scan over component cables, though. Very few games don't support VGA, but I know the DDR games don't.

[FantasiaWHT]

Yeah a friend of mine was arguing that it was a smart move for the gamecube to cut that port because according to him "barely any games used it"

He shut up when I showed him that link lol.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Wasn't this announced back in June that they would be removing
component output?


Oh well the thing that gets me is Nintendo does offer to place it in for you...but at a certain cost...gee...thank you Nintendo...you are so nice... :o

[farfel]

Nintendo knows that when HDTV becomes standard with progessive the Cube will be long dead. Only us tiny 1% of 1% (0.01%) who collct old stuff will care.

[grayrobertos]

Nintendo are that confident that no one will use it they have offered to swap any cube witout the port for a refurbished one. Whos arsed ne way.

[Half Japanese]

I for one hate games that don't do at least 480p these days. It's just pretty lazy. Even the GB Player supports it for fucks sake. it's not so much that I'm that big a whore for picture as some games (I-Ninja, etc.) have a crazy line across the middle of the screen from time to time because I'm using component cables and it's not in 480p. Oh well. It's not like I play my GCN much anymore anyway.

[boozi2]

W8.......... Why do we need that port in the first place again?

[YoshiM]

W8.......... Why do we need that port in the first place again?

If ya back up a page, the first post tells ya ;)

[The Manimal]

I think this is stupid since ONLY 1% HAVE BOUGHT THE DAMN COMPONENT CABLE BECAUSE IT IS NOT SOLD IN STORES! They expect EVERYONE to go to Nintendo's Online Store and order it? I have wanted one from day 1 of owning my Gamecube. But I still don't own it, because IT IS NOT SOLD ANYWHERE IN STORES....grrr..

[SegaAges]

you guys are only looking at it from 1 side.

yes, it sucks they took it out, but for somebody like me, it doesn't mean a damn thing. i own an older gc, but i can't use the progressive scan because my tv isn't hd. to me, this doesn't matter much. by the time the price does drop on the tv's, it still won't mean much, because to me, the games look fine on my crappy tv, and wanting an even better picture is like a broke person like i am asking for progressive scan atari 2600's.

i guarentee that there are tons of people out there that are like me. and if you really want the cable, you will get one. who cares if you have to go online? how many people do you know right now that have absolutely no way of getting on the net to go to nintendos website to order one. that is a very simple thing to do. if you want one that bad, you will get one.

don't get me wrong, i own a cube and love it, but this is no big deal to me.

[The Manimal]

Chances are, those who actually use that feature already had the setup they wanted....enthusiasts tend to grab shit up early, so this is hardly an issue.

-ROb

I don't own the cable YET because nintendo.com doesn't take DISCOVER...