how many people think using save state is cheating?

[abadox1943]

im kinda curious as to everybodys opinion. with roms i always end up using it way too much . with alot of nes games though you cant beat them without save state (smash tv for example. )

[Drammy]

I have a bad habit of doing that with GBA games.

I'll just be playing and kind of without even thinking about it, hit shift+F1. Granted most of the time I don't use the save, but it's just that I previously used them way too often.

[Ed Oscuro]

It mostly makes certain games more/less annoying. Take Starflight, for example - I always save a state right before I scan for minerals when taking my ATV around a planet, and then load, going to the spot on the screen via short-term memory. It allows me to pick up more stuff at once, but savestates (in general) compel me to play with "just that one extra..." mindset, where I have to try something until I do it as perfectly as possible. It'd be nice if more games had better difficulty levels.

On the plus side, it's let me complete and fully explore some extremely difficult games that I like, but not enough to spend months perfecting, titles like Akumajo Dracula on the x68K and Super Ghosts 'n Goblins. I first beat Super Metroid via emulation, ~7 years after I first played the demo; and avoided many unnecessary random battles in Phantasy Star IV which I never got around to beating, and so I might yet finish PSII and even start PSIII before I take it up again!

Cheating, though? You're only cheating yourself. Unless you're trying to fool people into thinking that Gauntlet II score is the real deal (hoaxing Twin Galaxies, not quite) then you're the only victim of this particular crime.

[SoulBlazer]

Game States are a GODSEND, and one of the primary reasons I play older games on emulators. I can't count the number of games I never could finish back 'in the day' but finally finished thanks to the help of Game States. Cheating? No, the game allready did that by not allowing me to finish it properly! ;)

[NE146]

'Course they're cheating... and what? :P

It certainly makes doing things a lot easier like bowling a 300 in Atari 2600 Bowling, seeing the best ending in Famicom Salamander. Or heck... just finishing Gradius 2 8-)

[slip81]

I'd consider it cheating. Beating Contra with only 3 lives is an accomplishment, anyone could do it with save states. But that doesn't mean that it's bad. Games are meant to be enjoyable, if game A is making you mad and you need a little help to make it fun, then what's wrong with that?

[Mr. Smashy]

If you mean "cheating" in the sense that you're dishonestly violating the rules of the game, then I would have to say that using save states is cheating. So long as using save states doesn't lead to any dishonesty on your part, I have no problem with it.

[Blackjax]

Yep. It's cheating. Just like game shark, game geine, etc etc..

It makes the game a lot easier... so of course all of us on my emulation server who get annoyed by games we've had forever and can't beat, or games that annoy us for no reason at all, or games we don't have the time to beat legit, or just because we want to coined it none other than...

CHEAT2WIN :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Hey, sometimes you just gotta ;) (Anyone who's gotten to the last boss of Arc The Lad II after getting Choco and had their memory card crap out on them can probably agree...)

[Nesmaster]

to me, a save state is cheating if you load it right after you die type of thing. but what about in a game like megaman where you can't save/ no psw feature? if a game has no other form of saving, and you dont feel like beating it in one sitting or you have to go somewhere, then yeah, i will use a savestate

The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbitsThe fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits..
The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbitsThe fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits..door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.. door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits.The fastest way to get the glowing rabbit star is to choose Yoshi, and then go out the front door of the castle. There are 5 rabbits outside - three by the end of the bridge, one in the moat to the left, and one near the hedge maze on the right. Took me maybe 10 minutes of running in and out to catch all 8 rabbits..

[-hellvin-]

without a doubt it is cheating.

My friend was playing battletoads and the part where you must race the rat he must have reloaded about 20 times before he beat it.

[tholly]

yea, it is cheating

i dont like playing games on the PC though (or modded xbox), so i never have to worry about the temptation of save states

[ArnoldRimmer83]

There's no doubt at all the save states are cheating, but I use them all the time anyways. Heh. Beating games with save states has also helped me get better at certain games I could never finish as a kid, and beat them legitimately.

Another thing that's great about save states, is that they can be very convinient for saving. Some games like Magic of Scherezade, Faxanadu, and Guardian Legend all have annoying passwords to remember, but with a save state, you can just hit a button and save your progress. No hassle. Its also convinient for long games that developers weren't kind enough to include saves for. (Blaster Master, Solomon's Key.) Yeah I know that's cheating as well, but some people probably don't have the time to constantly start over anymore, so its nice that emus give you that option.

[AB Positive]

since the only roms I tend to play that need them are translated roms of japanese RPGs... I occasionally use the save states instead of the regular save feature, if only because it's faster. I don't think there's an RPG that rewards you for saving low so I don't consider it cheating in that case. It may be the only one though.

-AG

[Dr. Morbis]

to me, a save state is cheating if you load it right after you die type of thing. but what about in a game like megaman where you can't save/ no psw feature? if a game has no other form of saving, and you dont feel like beating it in one sitting or you have to go somewhere, then yeah, i will use a savestate
Why should they have a password feature or save feature for a game that can be beaten handily in less than an hour? Most of the Bosses go down with only 3 hits with the right weapon.

IN the Atari/NES days, gaming used to be about accomplishments. Now, sadly, it's about experiences. If I want an 'experience', I'll watch a movie.

The thirst for a hearty challenge is one of the reasons I'm a retrogamer.

[Daria]

It's cheating, but I play mostly RPGs and as Adam pointed out it doesn't make that big of a difference. Hell many games let you save spontaniously anyway. Sometimes I get fed up and abuse it though, like saving every couple of steps to dodge random encounters. LOL

You get jaded after awhile though. I've had to quit using emulators recently because I found I was far to tempted to turn on the frameskip to speed up walking or slower battles. Recently I've stuck to playing the "real deals" but I still use emulation when I need to play an import.

[abadox1943]

the bad thing about dodging random encouters is you dont level up and with old school rpgs it makes it quite difficult to complete. some games you can just keep unpausing or use select. get a cheap third party controller with slow motion on it. i used to do that with ps 2 on genesis.

[Jibbajaba]

I think it depends. If you save only because you dont want to play anymore and want to come back to it later, then no i dont think its cheating, but if you are saving and then loading it back up when you die or in some other way taking advantage of it, then its cheating. Like if you were playing SMB, if you beat the game but you use more lives than the three you start with plus however many extras you accumulated, then you cheated. But like the other people said, so what?

If I played pitfall! on an enulator and was able to get a perfect score but i used save states to do it, then OBVIOUSLY that is cheating.

Chris

[Daria]

the bad thing about dodging random encouters is you dont level up and with old school rpgs it makes it quite difficult to complete.

I don't normally have that problem. When I play an RPG there are times I feel like "power leveling" and the rest of the time I want to move along at my own pace. During those times a high encounter rate can be nothing but frustrating overkill.

Sure you need to level up, but do you have to run into a battle every four steps?

[adaml]

There's no doubt at all the save states are cheating, but I use them all the time anyways. Heh. Beating games with save states has also helped me get better at certain games I could never finish as a kid, and beat them legitimately.

Another thing that's great about save states, is that they can be very convinient for saving. Some games like Magic of Scherezade, Faxanadu, and Guardian Legend all have annoying passwords to remember, but with a save state, you can just hit a button and save your progress. No hassle. Its also convinient for long games that developers weren't kind enough to include saves for. (Blaster Master, Solomon's Key.) Yeah I know that's cheating as well, but some people probably don't have the time to constantly start over anymore, so its nice that emus give you that option.

I totally agree with Arn. It is definitely cheating, but it comes in handy for some of those longer games. Blaster Master and Solomon's Key were two of the games that came to mind. Golgo 13 is another.

[Pantechnicon]

Sure you need to level up, but do you have to run into a battle every four steps?

My sentiments exactly. Which is why I used save states to beat Final Fantasy I and Crystalis for the NES. It didn't feel like cheating. The way I looked at it I was just saving time instead of having to wade through a whole mess of effortless random encounters.

On the other hand, when I used save states to beat Super Mario Bros (NES) and Shinobi (MAME) that admittedley felt like I was cheating since there are time and credit conditions as an actual component of those games :shameful:. Maybe one day I can beat them merely on the basis of my own skill, but not today.

[Pantechnicon]

Now that I think about it, beating Crystalis using states was a bit of a cheat too because there's an item in the game that you can either buy or acquire (I think it's called the Isis Statue) that allows you to do the thing I was doing with the states i.e. - save the game in a dungeon. I just really didn't feel like continually backtracking my way from a town to a dungeon if I got killed by a boss or whatever.

[Avatard]

Its no fun, it takes the challenge outta games. For example me and my friend beat FF1 with 4 white mages on the NES, it was insaneo hard but we had a blast. In a lot of parts we'd spend 15 mins to run in just to die, but with gamestate saves you really are not accomplishing anything. You are just resetting untill the odds are in your favor. It given the option to use gamestate saves we never would have.

[FantasiaWHT]

The only game I ever used save states on (except when I had to shut the pc down and wasn't near a save point) was in ROTK3. I could've beaten it completely without it, but it just cut down on the monotony to make sure I won all the individual challenges lol. Wasn't using save states to correct my own crappy mistakes, just to "reroll the dice" so to speak.

[whoisKeel]

they're cheating, but mostly i don't care. somebody brought up faxanadu, well that was one game i exploited save states in...if you miss a jump in that game, you often have to go all the way around the area to get back up, which is rather annoying. i would use the save states before difficult jumping scenerious, and load them without shame. sue me :)

[LazingBlazers]

Absolutely it's cheating. Games were meant to be played a certain way, and if they didn't come with batteries or passwords, let alone what basically amounts to instant replay, then so be it. All that repetition really does is help you to master the product.

[Azazel]

It's cheating, but I play mostly RPGs and as Adam pointed out it doesn't make that big of a difference. Hell many games let you save spontaniously anyway. Sometimes I get fed up and abuse it though, like saving every couple of steps to dodge random encounters. LOL

You get jaded after awhile though. I've had to quit using emulators recently because I found I was far to tempted to turn on the frameskip to speed up walking or slower battles. Recently I've stuck to playing the "real deals" but I still use emulation when I need to play an import.

I'm somewhat in the same boat. While I don't abuse save states that much. Sometimes I'll save before I fight the boss in case I die so I don't have to go through the dungeon again. I use to just use frame skipping for when I was leveling up and or getting money/gold. Now I can't stand to play an RPG without frame skipping so basically I'll never play one again on a real system.

[rbudrick]

I consider save states, "konami code" type tricks, and and form of game sharek/genie thing cheating. SUre, I support them fully, but you sure as hell didn't really beat the game if you used them. All you did was satisfy you curiosity to see what happens when you win. Use cheats for practice only, I say. Except Holy Diver. Nobody on Earth could ever possibly beat that game w/o cheats. Its just not fucking possible. AWESOME famicom game tho...

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

... Except Holy Diver. Nobody on Earth could ever possibly beat that game w/o cheats. Its just not fucking possible. AWESOME famicom game tho...

-Rob
BIG bosses...otherwise, levels seem a bit bland, but the use of spells to advance (i.e. ice spell to freeze a lava flow) is pulled off pretty well. I oughta try that one out again. *Holy Diver sounds like an innuendo*

[Cauterize]

i have mixed feelings about this....

For:
Get thru Hard Games easier
Get thru Long Games Easier/Save Power!
good if an unexpected visitor arrives/something arises in ur life u need to attend to

Against:
Not the way they were made to be played
takes the fun out of trying to get further everytime u play
if games were meant to be saved, the would have it built in like most new ones do...

[Nez]

Some times its necessary, ie Battle Toads. But yes it is cheating.

[LazingBlazers]

... Except Holy Diver. Nobody on Earth could ever possibly beat that game w/o cheats. Its just not fucking possible. AWESOME famicom game tho...

-Rob
BIG bosses...otherwise, levels seem a bit bland, but the use of spells to advance (i.e. ice spell to freeze a lava flow) is pulled off pretty well. I oughta try that one out again. *Holy Diver sounds like an innuendo*

Don't know, but it is the name of a Dio album. When I first saw the game I just laughed my ass off and thought leave it to the Japanese... must be a Ronnie James Dio fan at ?Jaleco?.

[NE146]

I'm somewhat in the same boat. While I don't abuse save states that much. Sometimes I'll save before I fight the boss in case I die so I don't have to go through the dungeon again. I use to just use frame skipping for when I was leveling up and or getting money/gold. Now I can't stand to play an RPG without frame skipping so basically I'll never play one again on a real system.

Exactly! Man speeding up a game just by pressing a button works great for RPG's.. I'm playing through Chrono Trigger, Dragon Warrior amongst other RPGs on the xbox emus, and there's nothing better than just speeding things up 300% or so simply by holding down the right trigger.

Speed up. Tap button to make your attacks. Win. Release trigger to go back to normal speed. Done! It makes going through the legions of slimes that much less annoying! 8-) It also works great for that slow walking. LOL

Hey don't knock me.. I still got all these games stored away and I PAID my dues by playing through the way they were meant to be played when they were first released anyway. :D This just makes playing through and checking them out again (should I decide to) that much easier and more enjoyable on my limited schedule. :)

[ArnoldRimmer83]

Holy Diver is an excellent example of a game that's only enjoyable by cheating. I used to think the game was decent, but the level design in later levels gets very obnoxious. The last level was one of the most frustrating I've ever seen in a video game. The game doesn't really feel very rewarding. Its been awhile since I've played it, so maybe I'll give it another shot. Some day when I'm not in a bad mood. :P

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh-oh-oh-oh...
Everybody was Holy Diving, those jerks were fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit fright'ning, but they fought with expert timing

LOL

Thanks for the info about the album LazingBlazers...I'll have to look into that album!