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Goodwill Hunter
08-27-2004, 01:14 AM
After a few months of chasing some phantom longbox titles that appear on various and sundry lists floating around, I'm finally ready to declare my Longbox Playstation collection complete. I believe the following list has every U.S. Playstation game released in longbox format...102 total. If you've got something to add, you better have photographic proof to back it up with, because at this point I'm not believin' it until I'm seein' it!

U.S. Longbox Playstation Titles (102)

Agile Warrior F-IIIX
Air Combat
Alien Trilogy
Assault Rigs
A-Train
Bases Loaded '96
Battle Arena Toshinden
Battle Arena Toshinden 2
Brain Dead 13
Bust-a-Move 2: Arcade Edition
Chessmaster 3D
College Slam
Criticom
Cyber Sled
Cyberia
CyberSpeed
D
Darkstalkers
Defcon 5
Descent
Destruction Derby
Discworld
Doom
ESPN eXtreme Games
Extreme Pinball
Fade to Black
FIFA '96 Soccer
Frank Thomas Big Hurt Baseball
Geom Cube
GEX
Goal Storm
Gunship
Hardball 5
Hi-Octane
In The Hunt
In the Zone
International Track & Field
Johnny Bazookatone
Jumping Flash
Jupiter Strike
Kileak: The DNA Imperative
King's Field
Krazy Ivan-ni
Lemmings 3D
Loaded
Magic Carpet
MLBPA Bottom of the 9th
MK3
NBA Jam T.E.
NBA Live 96
NBA Shoot Out
Need for Speed
NFL Gameday
NHL Face Off
Novastorm
Off-World Interceptor Extreme
Panzer General
PGA Tour 96
Philosoma
POed
Power Serve 3D Tennis
Primal Rage
Psychic Detective
Raiden Project
Rayman
Resident Evil
Return Fire
Revolution X
Ridge Racer
Rise 2 Resurrection
Road Rash
Romance of the 3 Kingdoms IV
Shell Shock
Shockwave Assault
Silverload
Skeleton Warriors
Slam N Jam '96
Space Griffon VF-9
Starblade Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter: The Movie
Striker '96
Tecmo World Golf
Tekken
Theme Park
Thunderstrike 2
Top Gun-Fire at Will!
Total Eclipse Turbo
Triple Play 97
Twisted Metal
V Tennis
Viewpoint
VR Soccer '96
Warhawk
Arcade's Greatest Hits-Williams
Wing Commander III
Wipeout
World Cup Golf: Professional Ed.
Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game
X-Com UFO Defense
Zero Divide
Zoop


Here's a shot of all the games squeezed onto my gameroom floor:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/169/lbpsxfrontr.jpg


And here's one of the box spines:

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/8417/LBPSXSide.jpg


Pretty sure that this is the only part of my Playstation collection that's ever going to be completed...Dangerboy's record is very safe from me. LOL Thanks to anyone out there who helped me pick up a longbox title over the last year!

Rich

Drexel923
08-27-2004, 01:20 AM
Cool stuff...congrats.

tholly
08-27-2004, 01:21 AM
wow...very nice collection.... a lot of time, $$ and effort went into that....pics were very impressive...congrats

Ninja Blacksox
08-27-2004, 01:27 AM
I tear up a bit every time I see "Return Fire."

One of the greatest multi-player games E-V-E-R. No game has ever inspired as much actual violence amongst my group of friends as "Return Fire" did between 1996 and 1998.

So beautiful.

-A Boy

Qixmaster
08-27-2004, 01:42 AM
an excellent collection. I can't even imagine the time spent on collecting specific long box games.

however....

looks like you are missing the long box version of space hulk. good luck finding that one.

-Josh

-hellvin-
08-27-2004, 01:45 AM
That is quite amazing, awesome accomplishment. Congrats!

tynstar
08-27-2004, 01:54 AM
Nice collection and great pics.

Dahne
08-27-2004, 02:26 AM
Those look all sorts of awesome, all together like that.

Why the early switch from long boxes to jewel cases, anyway? Besides the obvious convenience factor.

LiquidX01
08-27-2004, 02:37 AM
Thats good stuff.

Do you mind if I save your picture and use it for future reference? I would like to do that sometime when the extra funds kick in. :o

Ed Oscuro
08-27-2004, 02:45 AM
Dayumn...I remember seeing Krazy Ivan demoed at some game store (a Funcoland?) about five years ago...seems like quite a while now!

SoulBlazer
08-27-2004, 03:01 AM
I'm pretty sure the change from boxes to CD cases was due to price, stores being able to fit more of them into the same spot, and the longboxes not being the best format for 2 CD's.

Remember boxes are the first to go to save money. The first batch of Intellivison games had boxes that opened like books and a window for the game. Then they switched to the open at end style that has been used ever since. And INTV tried to get rid of boxes and instructions all together and just send games in ziplocks with a sheet of instrcutions, but customer complaints caused them to go back to boxes.

Videogamerdaryll
08-27-2004, 05:33 AM
Wow!! That is sweeet!!!!!!!!!,,Congrats..


What would you say the hardest one...was to find..?

digitalpress
08-27-2004, 07:18 AM
Nice job, Rich! Thanks for the pics, too.

Querjek
08-27-2004, 08:33 AM
Holy crapcakes, that's great!

kainemaxwell
08-27-2004, 09:27 AM
Nice job on the collection!

Goodwill Hunter
08-27-2004, 10:08 AM
Thanks everyone, it was fun to put together, with the exception of the last few months of finding nothing but air on those phantom titles. Most titles I got for between .99 and 4.99 from a really cool Funco manager who would let me check out new longbox arrivals before putting them on the floor...sadly, he no longer works there :( . The last title I got was Street Fighter Alpha: Warriors Dreams...which of course showed up at a local gamestore a few days after the one from Ebay showed up. Probably my best find was a $10 BIN for a Psychic Detective that was mint and complete...never seen that one in the wild. I got about a dozen of these through Ebay, the rest through thrifting, rummaging, used game stores and trading.

Rich

P.S. If there's a longbox Space Hulk (not on any list I've seen so far) out there, show me a photo!

captain nintendo
08-27-2004, 10:14 AM
Awesome collection and nice pics.

rbudrick
08-27-2004, 11:10 AM
Are there games that have both plastic and cardboard long box versions? Also, are there any other kinds of longbox?

-Rob

fahrvergnugen
08-27-2004, 11:35 AM
Very nice! I parted with my longbox games for $5 apiece recently, had no idea they were worth anything to collectors. :(

Cauterize
08-27-2004, 11:51 AM
omg that is so awesome! i envy you.... which one is the rarest? and which one was the last one u needed?

PapaStu
08-27-2004, 01:56 PM
Great feat, BUT do you have the longbox variants??? :evil:

I know that a Few came in mutiple case styles (Twisted Metal had jewlecase, paper versions I believe) and the cover variant for Wipeout (not to mention the slip cover). There were also NotForSale versions of RidgeRacer and BattleArena Toshinden released too.

Seriously though thats a nice feat with the PS longboxed collection there.

Qixmaster
08-27-2004, 02:25 PM
I sold a copy of the Space Hulk Long box version on ebay about 2 or 3 months ago for $23.50. Lucky for me, I still have the picture so I don't eat my own words.

here it is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/qixmaster/SpaceHulkLongBox.jpg

pixelsnpolygons
08-27-2004, 02:54 PM
That is just awesome. Good stuff, man.

lendelin
08-27-2004, 03:21 PM
Two word comment: HOLY SCHMOLY!

Very impressive, and great pics!

GrayFox
08-27-2004, 03:28 PM
I sold a copy of the Space Hulk Long box version on ebay about 2 or 3 months ago for $23.50. Lucky for me, I still have the picture so I don't eat my own words.

here it is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/qixmaster/SpaceHulkLongBox.jpg

I gotta admit, I didn't think there was a Space Hulk longbox.

GrayFox
08-27-2004, 03:28 PM
Double post. Blargh!

The Collector
08-27-2004, 05:51 PM
Congrats Rich! Just out of curiosity, which Funco were you pimping LOL ?
And does that Space Hulk now throw a :monkey: in the wrench?

~bill

kevincure
08-27-2004, 07:08 PM
Wow, I didn't even have Space Hulk on my own list. I should've just checked Qixmaster's auctions - I've known the kid for years!

-hellvin-
08-27-2004, 07:27 PM
Damn you space hulk! Heh, I searched for a while on info about it but I finally believe it with the picture. If I wasn't collecting genesis at the moment I'd work on psx longbox, there are SO MANY places I know of to get them, I could probably do 60 in one day.

Spartacus
08-27-2004, 07:38 PM
VERY NICE! I've always admired the long box's. Kind of thought about doing something like that myself someday, so it's nice to see the list and pics. Congratulations, great collection!

Chronic
08-27-2004, 10:42 PM
Wow, very impressive, but damn I didnt know there were that many longboxes....

Dangerboy
08-27-2004, 10:50 PM
WOoo! Only 8 more to go for my complete long box collection. Go man go!

That's such a pretty picture...

Jason

PACMANIAC64
08-27-2004, 11:20 PM
AWESOME!!! great job and great pics. @_@

briskbc
08-28-2004, 03:59 AM
That's some great stuff there. Looking at this made me think of a games store I was at several years ago. They had a long box Crusader No Remorse PAL game. Did this have a long box NTSC release?

Goodwill Hunter
08-28-2004, 05:26 AM
I sold a copy of the Space Hulk Long box version on ebay about 2 or 3 months ago for $23.50. Lucky for me, I still have the picture so I don't eat my own words.

here it is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/qixmaster/SpaceHulkLongBox.jpg

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! @_@

How the hell did this get left off everyone's lists? Please tell me that's a really excellent Photoshop job, and not the reason to edit the title of this post. :P Oh well, back to the drawing board....while were at it, if there's another undiscovered longbox game out there, post it now – 104 games makes 8 even rows of 13, the next "complete" picture will be even prettier :D.

Any chance you have another copy just gathering dust QM (or anyone else)?
Rich

kevincure
08-28-2004, 05:53 PM
I should have known to check when Qixmaster told me he sold his Space Hulk for 24 bucks! I'll keep an eye out for one, too, but I've never seen longbox SH before, so I'd imagine it's quite scarce.

Qixmaster
08-28-2004, 07:13 PM
I should have known to check when Qixmaster told me he sold his Space Hulk for 24 bucks! I'll keep an eye out for one, too, but I've never seen longbox SH before, so I'd imagine it's quite scarce.

haha... yes! told it was worth something kevin :P

Rich,
if i ever find one again i'll hook you up for whatever i pick it up for plus ship. I'm not much of a playstation collector... yet ;)

btw, the one i sold didn't have the instructions. But! the disc looked as if it had never been played.

-Josh

doubledownon11
08-28-2004, 07:18 PM
Do you have the outer sleeve for "Wipeout"? If not, it's not really complete.

Balloon Fight
08-28-2004, 09:45 PM
Congrats on the (almost) complete longbox collection rich. I'm only about 1/4 done myself. Hopefully my GS will get some in. :)

Dangerboy
08-28-2004, 09:58 PM
Heyy Hunter,

If you want to clobber me fo r a second record, go after all the long box variants ^o^

Jealousy + 1 :)
Jason

Ed Oscuro
08-28-2004, 11:45 PM
That's some great stuff there. Looking at this made me think of a games store I was at several years ago. They had a long box Crusader No Remorse PAL game. Did this have a long box NTSC release?
The release I've got was in a regular jewel case...that's not conclusive, though.

-hellvin-
08-29-2004, 01:04 AM
Any chance you have another copy just gathering dust QM (or anyone else)?
Rich

I will check around good ol' AZ on monday for ya while I'm hunting. I know of many places that sell longbox games (although I fear one just closed up...don't know what happened to it) and if I find one it's yours.

rscaramelo
08-31-2004, 04:10 PM
OffTopic:

The Collector has the Avatar of the Year?

Is that your girlfriend? Sister? :D

rscaramelo

orrimarrko
08-31-2004, 04:29 PM
OffTopic:

The Collector has the Avatar of the Year?

Is that your girlfriend? Sister? :D

rscaramelo

Since I agree, and have already asked :D , I can tell you that he is a very lucky man.

It's his wife. :eek 2:

rscaramelo
08-31-2004, 04:43 PM
No sh*t!

Thank goodness I didn't say anything vulgar ;) . I hit the jackpot too but my wife is a little more modest :D . Thumbs up Collector.

rscaramelo

rbudrick
08-31-2004, 06:09 PM
Yep, great avatar...where do I get more? :D

Can't see her face...sigh.......

-Rob

Yar, we be thread jacking pirates, mateys! Argh!!!

Policenaut
09-01-2004, 12:21 AM
I was inspired with the Tips n' Tricks magazine that had an article about PS1 long box games, so I decided to do it, it is quite a cool collection. Congratulations.

bargora
09-15-2004, 12:21 AM
Very nice, even if the Space Hulk has eluded you. Or have you scored one now? I just saw your topic when I ran a search for Philosoma, which I fired up the other day. Whether you like circa 1995 games or not, I think it's safe to say that they don't make 'em like they used to.

Time for some Warhawk.

Neonsolid
09-27-2004, 04:10 AM
Gone.

Goodwill Hunter
06-13-2005, 10:36 PM
After many fruitless months of searching for another copy of that only-seen-once longbox Playstation Space Hulk, and after seeing Dangerboy’s release date/no manual theory that the one copy was likely only promotional packaging, I am once again ready to declare my PSX Longbox collection complete at 102 titles.

Prove me wrong with a complete copy if you can, but for now I am once again at peace. :)

Rich

Dangerboy
06-13-2005, 11:35 PM
Glad I could help. :D

Jason

CreamSoda
06-14-2005, 02:04 AM
Am I the only one that thinks the PlayStation was actually at it's best in it's early years(95/96)? Maybe I'm just crazy. LOL

poopnes
06-14-2005, 03:01 AM
Am I the only one that thinks the PlayStation was actually at it's best in it's early years(95/96)? Maybe I'm just crazy. LOL

Its nostalgia. Well and then there was Ridge Racer, which still is in my top 5 games ever.

bargora
06-14-2005, 02:17 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the PlayStation was actually at it's best in it's early years(95/96)? Maybe I'm just crazy. LOL
People always complain about how ugly the early polygon games were, but as long as the pop-up isn't too bad I like 'em. They almost have an abstract sort of feel to them and they just scream "video game". Warhawk is one of my favorites from that time period.

digitalpress
06-14-2005, 02:20 PM
After many fruitless months of searching for another copy of that only-seen-once longbox Playstation Space Hulk, and after seeing Dangerboy’s release date/no manual theory that the one copy was likely only promotional packaging, I am once again ready to declare my PSX Longbox collection complete at 102 titles.

Prove me wrong with a complete copy if you can, but for now I am once again at peace. :)

Rich

Congrats, Rich! I thought I had a Space Hulk longbox to prove you wrong because I thought I had a complete longbox collection. Turns out I didn't have Space Hulk on my list of longbox games, hence I have been in the same situation as you for some time as well.

So we're SURE it doesn't exist now, right? I'm not going to find this game in someone's collection years down the road and have to murder them in cold blood, am I?

Chuplayer
06-14-2005, 03:50 PM
Didn't Mortal Kombat 3 come in a long box? I don't see it there.

Dangerboy
06-14-2005, 04:42 PM
Chuplayer
It's in his first picture, 4th row, 4th form the right.

Digitpress wrote:

So we're SURE it doesn't exist now, right? I'm not going to find this game in someone's collection years down the road and have to murder them in cold blood, am I?

As discussed (lightly) in the PSX thread, but more headbashed between Stu and I, a month ago I went completely AWOL on the internet and did some serious digging. Here's the breakdown of information I found, and why the 'display box' theory is holding up:

1. Space Hulk has a release date of September 5th, 1996. Tecmo World Golf, the last true proven Long Box, was released on shelfs July 10th, 1996. Almost 2 months difference between them.

2. There are 15 regular jewel case games that are released inbetween the two of them. Why would they release a long box after so many jewel cases?

3. There has only been only been one confirmed long box sighting, and that was the auction we know about, except it was without a manual.

4. Both Stu and I have Lunar boxes that are the exact retail release, sans barcode. I've seen 3rd Party N64 display boxes that looked 100% like the real deal, but with the POP barcode, not the game barcode. We need a scan of that auction long box, so I can run the barcode through the work PC and see if it rings up. Even then, it could still be just a display.

5. EA re-released several of their long box games as double jewel cases, including Fade to Black, Triple Play 97, NBA Live 96, and Theme Park. It's possible that SH was scheduled for a long box release (and promo'ed as one) but was just tossed into the double jewel case lot at the 11th hour when the others were being re-printed.

So basically, everything comes down to the manual. Unless someone, somewhere, has a long box Space Hulk PSX manual, there is no real concrete evidence outside of the one encounter that we already have documented.

The world may never know.

Slimedog
06-14-2005, 05:08 PM
Great job on the collection. Actually maybe somebody can help me with a longtime question of mine. In my collection, I only get the longbox version of a PS1 game if it was never released in a CD case or if the only CD cased release was GH (I really hate the green spines). Does anybody know which of these longbox games were never released in a CD case?

After rereading my post, I'm beginning to think my collection pushes me around like a bossy lapdog.

Dangerboy
06-14-2005, 05:51 PM
Assault Rigs
A-Train
Bases Loaded '96
Brain Dead 13
College Slam
Criticom
Cyber Sled
CyberSpeed
Darkstalkers**
Defcon 5
Descent
Discworld
FIFA '96 Soccer
Frank Thomas Big Hurt Baseball
Goal Storm
Hardball 5
In the Zone
Jumping Flash
Jupiter Strike
Kileak: The DNA Imperative
Krazy Ivan-ni
Lemmings 3D
MLBPA Bottom of the 9th
MK3 (researchng)
NBA Jam T.E.
Novastorm
Panzer General (not sure)
Philosoma
Power Serve 3D Tennis
Primal Rage
Psychic Detective
Raiden Project (not sure)
Return Fire (not sure)
Revolution X
Rise 2 Resurrection
Shockwave Assault (not sure)
Silverload
Space Griffon VF-9
Street Fighter Alpha**
Street Fighter: The Movie
Striker '96
V Tennis
Viewpoint
Wrestlemania: The Arcade Game
X-Com UFO Defense
Zero Divide
Zoop

**If you count Capcom's "FIghter's Edge" Varaint as a GH, then no.

Jason

Qixmaster
06-15-2005, 01:58 AM
Wow, some solid evidence to prove the space hulk. Since i found it in Eugene OR in a pile of PS1 games that were direct from Sony's Plant, it very well could be a promo box.... but wouldn't that make it one damn rare promo box?

Anyways, if it DOES in fact exist, i will find it. If there was one in my town, there has got to be another.

Rich... do you happen to have that picture anymore? If i remembered correctly, the Disc for that one i sold on ebay back in the day was different then any other disc i had seen for the game. Maybe i am trippin' but i could have sworn the disc was different.

-Josh

PapaStu
06-15-2005, 02:12 AM
Wow, some solid evidence to prove the space hulk. Since i found it in Eugene OR in a pile of PS1 games that were direct from Sony's Plant, it very well could be a promo box.... but wouldn't that make it one damn rare promo box?

Anyways, if it DOES in fact exist, i will find it. If there was one in my town, there has got to be another.

Rich... do you happen to have that picture anymore? If i remembered correctly, the Disc for that one i sold on ebay back in the day was different then any other disc i had seen for the game. Maybe i am trippin' but i could have sworn the disc was different.

-Josh

I think in actuality... it makes it a promo box. MOST (not all) but MOST of the time, those are rare to some sense as they arnt general public releases and unless you gaffled one from a game store then how do we really get one? My Promo box for Arc The Lad (which is a complete Retail box, just minus the SKU was taken from my poor closing indy shop a year + ago, and somehow survived sitting on top of a display case for that long. This could very likely end up being one of those hunts, where unless a gamestore packrat happened to take one (or three) are we really gonna be stumbling into them? I highly doubt it.

I do tend to think like you that when you find one of something like that in your town (that came from a noted source which in this case was an actual sony plant) tends to show up every now and again as has been pointed out by a few other collectors when they find weird beta/developemt stuff in an area because it was originally manufactured there or the companys home office was there kinda thing. You should know that should you ever stumble across more, that there could be a bit of a bidding war on your hands for it. ;)

kevincure
06-15-2005, 03:58 AM
I was just over at Josh's and we hunted for the pic - we couldn't find it, but maybe someone saved it when it was posted in this thread?

I would, at the point, also say it could be a promo, but I think it's also likely that's it's legit Sony. Why?

1) Sony has a CD plant right near town. Employees could buy games there cheap (perhaps before release) and sealed PSX longboxes have been found somewhat regularly around here.
2) The buyer was brinn1, who certainly knows what he's doing - perhaps he can shed some light on it?
3) The box looked like one of the black hard plastic Sony cases - a wierd thing to promo unless it came from Sony itself

Most likely? Sony produced, but not commercially released.

Slimedog
06-15-2005, 02:42 PM
Panzer General (not sure)


Wow! Thanks a million. I've been looking for that info for a very long time. I can tell you that I do have a CD cased Panzer General. It came in a double case even though it only had 1 disk. Thanks again.

Goodwill Hunter
06-15-2005, 07:52 PM
Rich... do you happen to have that picture anymore? If i remembered correctly, the Disc for that one i sold on ebay back in the day was different then any other disc i had seen for the game. Maybe i am trippin' but i could have sworn the disc was different.

-Josh

Lucky for you, I never throw anything away ;)

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/6899/spacehulklongbox3ui.jpg

Enjoy!

Rich

Qixmaster
06-16-2005, 12:52 AM
Rich... do you happen to have that picture anymore? If i remembered correctly, the Disc for that one i sold on ebay back in the day was different then any other disc i had seen for the game. Maybe i am trippin' but i could have sworn the disc was different.

-Josh

Lucky for you, I never throw anything away ;)

http://img219.echo.cx/img219/6899/spacehulklongbox3ui.jpg

Enjoy!

Rich

Thanks Rich,

I will kick my ass for a long time for not scanning the back of it.

-Josh

Qixmaster
06-16-2005, 01:01 AM
can anyone check the disc? there seem to be no space hulk games on the ebay as of now.

Also, just noticed that everyone seems to ask questions about these when one gets posted on ebay without a picture

check the question out here....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8195765462&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The guy signed the name brinn... most likely the guy i sold it to, still wondering himself. If we could get him to talk, you guys could get more information about that box. Too bad i didn't keep it... x_x

-Josh

Dangerboy
06-16-2005, 01:51 AM
Disc matched exactly, from what I remember (looking at my double jewel case one now) since the 'with disc' pic is down.

Interesting to note that the box artwork is almost 100% unchanged when you compare the two. All they did was lower the SpaceHulk logo from the top to inbetween the two characters. Even the design team "Key Game"''s logo is still right where it should be.

The ESRB T looks a little funky though...still researching that for comparison.

Jason
This has become my own Tell Tale Heart.

EricRyan34
12-01-2005, 07:03 PM
WOW, that is gorgeous. I am currently trying to get all of the longbox games for PS1 and I am only on #7 :embarrassed:

Haoie
12-01-2005, 08:09 PM
That's pretty impressive.

I'd question whether any PAL titles have big box versions, as I've never seen any ever.

I guess the smaller cases do save on materials.

Mayhem
12-02-2005, 07:09 AM
No, the PS1 came out in Europe after Sony stopped doing longboxes, so there aren't any.

Cers
12-02-2005, 11:32 AM
No, the PS1 came out in Europe after Sony stopped doing longboxes

Sorry but thats wrong. The PS1 was released in Europe in 1995 and Darkstalkers, for example, was released in the US 1996.

Nevertheless, no longbox games in Europe.......... ;)

Jumpman Jr.
12-02-2005, 05:43 PM
Jesus tapdancing Christ!
That's pretty freaking sweet!

Lothars
12-02-2005, 07:42 PM
This is a very interesting thread, thank you for all the information it provided :D

mezrabad
12-02-2005, 07:47 PM
My inner collector (whom I keep chained up, the little whore) is envious. Both of those pictures brought a tear to my eye.

Congratulations.

christhegamer
12-03-2005, 05:53 PM
Good for you!!! W00t! U R 1337!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

(I need help...)