Another "GameCube vs." Thread [split topic] [Archive]

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calthaer

08-21-2004, 10:48 PM

There's plenty of stock of the best system around - and it's the cheapest. What's the problem here?

Half Japanese

08-22-2004, 05:05 PM

@Calthaer:

Maybe folks are interested in more than 3 good games a year? Just a thought.

I enjoy my Gamecube, but with all the solid shit I'm catching up on for the Xbox (Riddick, Deus Ex, Rallisport, etc.) coupled with the Live games, I have no time for it.

calthaer

08-24-2004, 04:59 PM

zmweasel

08-24-2004, 07:02 PM

Maybe folks are interested in more than 3 good games a year? Just a thought.

If that were the case, then they certainly wouldn't be looking at the PS2 with its wide load of mediocre garbage or the Xbox who has KOTOR and HALO and...uh...Fable...and...well...

...

Good point, calthaer. Geez, between Activision Anthology and The Adventures of Cookie and Cream and Amplitude and Ape Escape 2 and Baldur's Gate and Beyond Good & Evil and Castlevania: Lament of Innocence and Champions of Norrath and Contra: Shattered Soldier and Crimson Sea 2 and Culdcept and Dark Cloud and Dark Cloud 2 and DDRMAX and DDRMAX2 and Deus Ex and Devil May Cry and Disgaea and Downhill Domination and Drakan and Dynasty Tactics and Dynasty Tactics 2 and Dynasty Warriors 2 and Dynasty Warriors 3 and Dynasty Warriors 3XL and Dynasty Warriors 4 and Dynasty Warriors 4XL and Dynasty Warriors 4 Legends and Escape from Monkey Island and EyeToy: Groove and Fatal Frame and Fatal Frame 2 and FInal Fantasy X and Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy XI and Freedom Fighters and Front Mission 4 and Gladius and Gran Turismo 3 and Grand Theft Auto III and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and Guilty Gear X and Guilty Gear X2 and Half-Life and Harvest Moon: Save the Homeland and Hitman 2 and Hitman: Contracts and Hot Shots Golf 3 and Ico and Jak and Daxter and James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing and Jurassic Park: Operation Genesis and Karaoke Revolution and kill.switch and Kingdom Hearts and Klonoa 2 and La Pucelle: Tactics and Magic Pengel and Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and The Mark of Kri and Medal of Honor: Frontline and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty and Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance and Midnight Club and Midnight Club II and Monster Rancher 3 and Monster Rancher 4 and Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance and Need for Speed Underground and Onimusha and Onimusha 2 and Onimusha 3 and Pac-Man World 2 and Primal and Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time and Pro Race Driver and Psi-Ops and R-Type Final and Ratchet & Clank and Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando and Red Dead Revolver and Red Faction and Red Faction II and Rez and Ring of Red and Road Trip and Robot Alchemic Drive and Rygar and Samurai Warriors and Secret Weapons Over Normandy and Shadow Hearts and Silent Hill 2 and Silent Hill 3 and The Simpsons: Hit & Run and The Sims and The Sims: Bustin' Out and SkyGunner and Sky Odyssey and Sly Cooper and Smuggler's Run and SOCOM and Soul Calibur II and Space Channel 5: SE and Sphinx and Splashdown and SSX and SSX Tricky and SSX 3 and Sub Rebellion and Summoner and Summoner 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament and Theme Park Roller Coaster and TimeSplitters and TimeSplitters 2 and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow and Tony Hawk's Underground and Twisted Metal: Black and Virtua Fighter 4 and Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution and War of the Monsters and Xenosaga and Zone of the Enders, I can't understand why any self-respecting gamer would bother with the PS2.

-- Z.

ArnoldRimmer83

08-24-2004, 07:27 PM

Pop Culture Portal

08-24-2004, 08:17 PM

:above me:

SoulBlazer

08-24-2004, 10:31 PM

I nominate Zach's post as 'post of the week'! LOL

calthaer

08-24-2004, 11:32 PM

All the worthwhile ones in that list are either done better on the PC or can be gotten on the GCN, which does it better as well. The rest are filler for when one doesn't have anything better to play.

Aussie2B

08-25-2004, 03:44 AM

SoulBlazer

08-25-2004, 04:16 AM

I know Zach has defended the XBox to ME several times....and the GameCube as well. Both of us are gamers. We WANT to see ALL the systems do well so that we can get our grubby little hands on as many games as possible. Well, for him, there's also the added bonus of business. ;)

zmweasel

08-25-2004, 05:40 PM

I love how Zach only makes a point to defend the PS2 and not the X-Box, haha. How typical. He's always acting as if his own mother is the president of Sony. They must've really lined his pockets at some point. Sign me up, man, I'll act like a rabid Sony fanboy too for enough cash.

And I think you proved calthaer's point quite well. ;) You think you listed Dynasty Warriors enough times?

First: It's Xbox. No hyphen, no capital B.

Second: I didn't provide an Xbox list because I felt my PS2 list made the point that Calthaer's sweeping generalization of the PS2 and Xbox libraries as unworthy of consideration was fucking ridiculous.

Third: I listed Dynasty Warriors and its sequels because all of them have been best-sellers both in America and Japan.

Fourth: I've flamed Sony's policies in this forum several times, once drawing the ire of a Sony employee and CGE alumnus. I've never received a penny from Sony, and anyone who knows anything about videogame journalism--which does NOT include you--would laugh 'til they busted at the notion of a game reviewer getting his "pockets lined" by a game company. Are you really so stupid as to believe that Sony would pay me, or anyone else, thousands of dollars to "defend its corporate honor" on website forums? Get a fucking clue.

-- Z.

zmweasel

08-25-2004, 05:43 PM

BTW proclaiming a system's greatness by listing dozens of games that can mostly also be gotten on one or BOTH of the other systems (and usually better done there) is a very weak argument.

Read the list again, Spanky. It's teeming with PS2-exclusive games that can't "mostly be gotten" on the GameCube or Xbox.

And I'm not "proclaiming the PS2's greatness," merely pointing out the idiocy of Calthaer's sweeping generalization.

-- Z.

Aussie2B

08-25-2004, 06:49 PM

First: It's Xbox. No hyphen, no capital B.

And your point is? It's Nintendo GameCube not "GameCube Nintendo", but that doesn't stop people from writing "GCN". People use "PlayStation" and "Playstation" interchangeably. You're just getting petty now, desperately reaching for any "proof" you can possibly find to make yourself look like you're more knowledgeable than everyone else here, and ultimately you're just making yourself look like a pathetic fanboy, career history or not.

Third: I listed Dynasty Warriors and its sequels because all of them have been best-sellers both in America and Japan.

best-sellers =/= best games

I'm interested in less than 10 games you listed, and the only 2 PS2 games I have aren't even on your list. I can think of many more games on GameCube that look better to me, and no matter how lengthy and tedious of a list you create, you cannot "prove" to me, calthaer, or anyone else that our perspective is wrong and your perspective is right. It appears as if you never post except to jump down people's backs when they state their preferences when they happen to contradict your own.

Fourth: I've flamed Sony's policies in this forum several times, once drawing the ire of a Sony employee and CGE alumnus. I've never received a penny from Sony, and anyone who knows anything about videogame journalism--which does NOT include you--would laugh 'til they busted at the notion of a game reviewer getting his "pockets lined" by a game company. Are you really so stupid as to believe that Sony would pay me, or anyone else, thousands of dollars to "defend its corporate honor" on website forums? Get a fucking clue.

1. Don't assume things about me that you know NOTHING about.

2. Learn to read between the lines.

3. Get a fucking sense of humor. ;)

calthaer

08-25-2004, 07:28 PM

kai123

08-25-2004, 08:02 PM

There's plenty of stock of the best system around - and it's the cheapest. What's the problem here?

Way to derail a topic. Quit whining because your system of choice isn't doing as well. Am I the only one sick of GBA connectivity? I want some online play.

On topic: My local Ebgames doesn't have any PS2 or Xbox systems at all. Plenty of Gamecubes though. Same for my Best Buy.

Daria

08-25-2004, 08:06 PM

And I'm not "proclaiming the PS2's greatness," merely pointing out the idiocy of Calthaer's sweeping generalization.

Yet another example of Zmweasel's shining personality. Why j00 always gettin' up in da peeps' bizniss? Maybe people would take you seriously if you could make your point without the impassioned name-calling.

Actually he didn't call you any names. And he did have a point. There are loads of games available for the PS2 that can't be had on any other systems. It's certainly the reason I bought one (after my Cube and XboX).

calthaer

08-25-2004, 08:25 PM

Actually he didn't call you any names.

If "idiocy" isn't name-calling, it's certainly insulting. I'm not splitting hairs.

zmweasel

08-26-2004, 08:17 PM

And your point is? It's Nintendo GameCube not "GameCube Nintendo", but that doesn't stop people from writing "GCN". People use "PlayStation" and "Playstation" interchangeably. You're just getting petty now, desperately reaching for any "proof" you can possibly find to make yourself look like you're more knowledgeable than everyone else here, and ultimately you're just making yourself look like a pathetic fanboy, career history or not.

"People" write GCN because it's Nintendo's own abbreviation for the GameCube. Some magazines and websites have chosen to use "GC," which is also fine.

"People" who write "Playstation" are wrong. It's "PlayStation."

I pointed out your "X-Box" mistake so you don't make it again. It's difficult to take you seriously when you don't have a handle on the very basics of the modern videogame industry.

I don't claim to be more knowledgeable than anyone else in these forums, because I'm certainly not. But I'm a damn sight more knowledgeable than you.

I'm interested in less than 10 games you listed, and the only 2 PS2 games I have aren't even on your list. I can think of many more games on GameCube that look better to me, and no matter how lengthy and tedious of a list you create, you cannot "prove" to me, calthaer, or anyone else that our perspective is wrong and your perspective is right.

Calthaer's perspective is that there's nothing on the PS2 worth playing, which is absolutely wrong. The point of my post was to show there are so many games on the PS2 worth playing that only the most rabid anti-Sony fanboi would damn the system's entire library with a sweeping generalization.

1. Don't assume things about me that you know NOTHING about.

I don't need to assume you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to videogame journalism. You've already proven it beyond doubt.

-- Z.

Aussie2B

08-26-2004, 09:20 PM

"People" write GCN because it's Nintendo's own abbreviation for the GameCube. Some magazines and websites have chosen to use "GC," which is also fine.

"People" who write "Playstation" are wrong. It's "PlayStation."

I pointed out your "X-Box" mistake so you don't make it again. It's difficult to take you seriously when you don't have a handle on the very basics of the modern videogame industry.

The very basics? More like: I don't own an Xbox, never have, don't have any interest at this point in time, and I don't care if I write its name correctly or not. It has no relation to what I don't or don't know about anything else. I changed it, nonetheless, so are you happy now? You're still being extremely petty, but I guess now I'm magically more knowledgeable and respectable now that I write "Xbox" the way Microsoft does it. That's the way it works with you, eh?

I don't claim to be more knowledgeable than anyone else in these forums, because I'm certainly not. But I'm a damn sight more knowledgeable than you.

Assumptions, assumptions. Just because you have a "shining personality" as Calthaer put it and an elitist attitude doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to makes claims about your intelligence or knowledge about the game industry. Unlike you, I'm capable of separating my own personal opinions from facts about people that I honestly have no clue about. And also unlike you, I'm also capable of respecting other people's perferences. Oh boo-hoo, we don't like your precious PS2 all that much. Is that the fucking end of the world?

Calthaer's perspective is that there's nothing on the PS2 worth playing, which is absolutely wrong. The point of my post was to show there are so many games on the PS2 worth playing that only the most rabid anti-Sony fanboi would damn the system's entire library with a sweeping generalization.

Uh... no. I don't know how you got so far in the industry with that outlook, but considering most people in the industry are a joke, I guess it's no surprise. If Calthaer's perspective is that there's nothing on the PS2 worth playing, THEN IT'S HIS PERSPECTIVE, WHICH HE HAS A RIGHT TO, AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY 100% NOT WRONG BECAUSE IT'S AN OPINION. Has it finally been drilled through your thick head yet? Perhaps it's an opinion you disagree with, but you have NO right to tell anyone that it's wrong. With that fanboy attitude, I don't know how you haven't gotten banned here. Oh right, I know, because you had a few jobs in the industry, and that instantly makes you better than everyone else, right? And different rules apply to you, right? You can be the biggest asshole in existence around here, yet you still get worshipped.

I don't need to assume you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to videogame journalism. You've already proven it beyond doubt.

The only thing that was proven was that you have NO sense of humor, so you read a funny little insulting joke and took it as if I was being deathly serious. Again, not something I should be surprised about. This is from someone who thinks stupid references to ABBA, Wheaties, and M&Ms are "jokes". It's sad, really, even 50-year-old cat ladies are funnier than you.

calthaer

08-26-2004, 10:00 PM

Just for the record peeps: I do myself own a PS2 and I do have a fair library of games that is probably equal in size to my GameCube library. Of course, I do not by any means enjoy the PS2 library as much as my GCN one.

The other point is the fact that all of the things that I consider the greatest games on weasel's list are at least available (and in most cases done better) on other systems. Do I really need to go game-by-game? Let me pick out my personal favs:

Dark Alliance - also available on Xbox and GCN
Beyond Good & Evil - also available on PC, Xbox, & GCN
GTA - PC or Xbox, anyone?
Deus Ex & Half Life - is the PS2 version even worth playing? PC all the way
Pac Man World 2 - This game was halfway decent, but even so - why get it for PS2 when the GCN comes with VS?
Escape from Monkey Island - this game isn't even as good as the first few monkey islands, but even so it's still better on the PC
PoP Sands of Time - PC, GCN, Xbox...

The rest of them - eh...some are good, but do they have magic? Not for me. I do see Sly Cooper on that list and I like that game a lot, so I will make an exception there. There are probably a few other games on there that are pretty decent, but for me they're just "filler" - stuff I'd pick up if I was bored with everything else.

I don't hate the PS2. I just use it largely for playing PS1 games, which makes me wonder sometimes why I bothered. I'll take an extreme view, though, because we like extremes. Extremes give us a chance to demonize another point of view and belittle the people who hold it. Right everyone? Let's do that.

zmweasel

08-26-2004, 10:07 PM

The very basics? More like: I don't own an Xbox, never have, don't have any interest at this point in time, and I don't care if I write its name correctly or not.

You really should care if you want to be taken seriously when discussing the Xbox, or anything about the modern videogame industry.

It has no relation to what I don't or don't know about anything else. I changed it, nonetheless, so are you happy now? You're still being extremely petty, but I guess now I'm magically more knowledgeable and respectable now that I write "Xbox" the way Microsoft does it. That's the way it works with you, eh?

You're not more respectable, but a bit more knowledgeable.

Assumptions, assumptions. Just because you have a "shining personality" as Calthaer put it and an elitist attitude doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to makes claims about your intelligence or knowledge about the game industry. Unlike you, I'm capable of separating my own personal opinions from facts about people that I honestly have no clue about. And also unlike you, I'm also capable of respecting other people's perferences. Oh boo-hoo, we don't like your precious PS2 all that much. Is that the fucking end of the world?

I don't have an elitist attitude. I was appalled at Calthaer's idiotic generalization, and pointed out how absolutely wrong it was. There's nothing elitist about that.

As for "my precious PS2," what the fuck are you talking about? It doesn't hurt my feelings if someone doesn't own the PS2, or doesn't care for certain PS2 games. But it's ridiculous and idiotic to dismiss an entire system and its library as unworthy of play. Again, anyone but the most rabid Nintendo fanboi can easily find dozens of PS2-exclusive games worth playing.

If Calthaer's NOT a rabid Nintendo fanboi, and yet can't find a single PS2 game worth his time, he needs a new hobby, stat.

Uh... no. I don't know how you got so far in the industry with that outlook, but considering most people in the industry are a joke, I guess it's no surprise.

Nice! Another ignorant, idiotic generalization. Why do you even bother with videogames if "most people in the industry are a joke"?

Perhaps it's an opinion you disagree with, but you have NO right to tell anyone that it's wrong. With that fanboy attitude, I don't know how you haven't gotten banned here. Oh right, I know, because you had a few jobs in the industry, and that instantly makes you better than everyone else, right? And different rules apply to you, right? You can be the biggest asshole in existence around here, yet you still get worshipped.

No one, including myself, is saying I'm better than anyone else. I'm certainly more knowledgeable than you, as previously stated, but there are people on this forum who've been around a hell of a lot longer than me and know a hell of a lot more.

As for "getting worshipped," you only need refer to the threads in which I've participated to know that's hardly the case.

The only thing that was proven was that you have NO sense of humor, so you read a funny little insulting joke and took it as if I was being deathly serious. Again, not something I should be surprised about. This is from someone who thinks stupid references to ABBA, Wheaties, and M&Ms are "jokes". It's sad, really, even 50-year-old cat ladies are funnier than you.

I have a sense of humor, but not about anything you have to say, as it's personally insulting.

As for your attempt to insult my work on Lunar: SSSC and Lunar: EBC, both of which were critical and commercial successes, I've already discussed WD's localization approach many times in the past, and don't care to rehash it here.

-- Z.

Aussie2B

08-26-2004, 11:06 PM

You really should care if you want to be taken seriously when discussing the Xbox, or anything about the modern videogame industry.

You're not more respectable, but a bit more knowledgeable.

If you want to play that game, you keep misspelling fanboy as "fanboi". I find that a hell of a lot more strange and suspicious than someone who happens to not know the proper capitalization and punctuation for the title of a product. At least I've never gotten the spelling of XBox wrong. I wasn't writing it as "Z-Box" or something. And for the record, I had been writing it as "X-Box" since BEFORE the system had an official way of writing the title and BEFORE the system came out. It was only due to my lack of interest that I never learned otherwise, and the fact that people online write it a million different ways doesn't help any. And besides, I was never seriously "discussing" Xbox, so I fail to see your point. It was a simple passing comment about how you ignored that he made negative comments about Xbox and focused solely on the Sony side of things.

I don't have an elitist attitude. I was appalled at Calthaer's idiotic generalization, and pointed out how absolutely wrong it was. There's nothing elitist about that.

You will never understand how much of a fool you're making yourself out to be, will you? Either that or you too stubborn to ever admit that you're wrong about something. I'm guessing the latter. It was NOT an "idiotic generalization"; it was an OPINION. Just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't mean it's idiotic or that it's wrong. You'd think a video game journalist of all people would understand the difference between fact and opinion. I know I sure have to explain it a lot to dumb kids who get upset about my reviews.

As for "my precious PS2," what the fuck are you talking about? It doesn't hurt my feelings if someone doesn't own the PS2, or doesn't care for certain PS2 games.

Maybe so, but you sure play the role of a rabid Sony fanboy quite well. If you fail to see that you're acting that way, then I honestly don't know what to say about that.

But it's ridiculous and idiotic to dismiss an entire system and its library as unworthy of play. Again, anyone but the most rabid Nintendo fanboi can easily find dozens of PS2-exclusive games worth playing.

Ridiculous, perhaps, but you don't have the right to call it idiotic. I find it interesting that you only single out Nintendo fanboys here. Going back to my previous statement, you have a long running tendency to go ballistic any time someone appears to show a preference of Nintendo over Sony and states such in a negative way towards Sony. Do you happen to remember the DS and PSP thread? Just because I was showing a preference for the DS over the PSP and stating a few reasons why, you went nuts. Anyway, going back to your comment, what about pre-crash fans who don't like modern games? What about Microsoft fanboys who hate PS2 and GameCube? What about people who just plain haven't found much of anything of interest on PS2? Some people, like myself, just are particular about games and have very discriminating tastes, so it has nothing to do with fanboy-ish qualities if they happen to not like the PS2's library. There can be LOTS of reason why someone doesn't like the PS2 (as there can be for any system, even those that I consider my favorites), so it's by no means idiotic or wrong. And there are all kinds of bad fanboys, not just Nintendo ones. The Sony ones (and the ones for any other company) can be just as bad.

Nice! Another ignorant, idiotic generalization. Why do you even bother with videogames if "most people in the industry are a joke"?

You've been making your fair share of ignorant, idiotic comments yourself. I said "most" so it's not a generalization; I realize there are exceptions. It comes from experience, so it's not based on ignorance. In my opinion, it's true, so it's not idiotic to me. Any other insults left that I can shoot down with hard facts? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, though. I meant most people in YOUR aspect of the industy - journalism, localization, etc. Programmers tend to be nice, down to earth people since they're so behind the scenes. It's the people who get a touch of the limelight that get big heads, start acting elistist, and so on (good example - Tommy Tallarico). As for the people who I do consider a joke, well, I don't bother with them and their work, so there you go. I don't waste my money on any current gaming magazines, and I play a lot of my games in Japanese.

No one, including myself, is saying I'm better than anyone else. I'm certainly more knowledgeable than you, as previously stated, but there are people on this forum who've been around a hell of a lot longer than me and know a hell of a lot more.

Blah, blah, blah. If you got something worthwhile to say, then say it. Otherwise don't waste your time and everyone else's by posting assumptions about people you know absolutely nothing about.

As for "getting worshipped," you only need refer to the threads in which I've participated to know that's hardly the case.

And I can direct you to threads in which you ARE idolized. And just the very fact that you can get away with shit that others can't says something.

I have a sense of humor, but not about anything you have to say, as it's personally insulting.

As for your attempt to insult my work on Lunar: SSSC and Lunar: EBC, both of which were critical and commercial successes, I've already discussed WD's localization approach many times in the past, and don't care to rehash it here.

Of course you wouldn't find it funny; it's intended to be insulting. However, it would benefit you to at least understand when someone is being serious or not. I find it laughable that you believed that I was honestly suggesting that you got paid money by Sony.

And I wasn't trying to insult your work or discuss your "localization approach". I'm simply stating that the games prove your sense of humor is pathetic. Mentioning something that exists in the real world is NOT a joke. It's just a pointless, awkward reference. Oh, and I love how you worked in the "they were critical and commercial successes" part. ;) Nice plug. I find it funny how you guys from Working Designs take all the credit for the games. Too bad you did no actual game development nor script writing (the REAL plot, that is, not all the side fluff). The games was already completed by little middle-aged Japanese men. Sorry to break it to you, but with the exception of maybe a few weirdos, it's the GAME that's selling the game, and earning the "critical and commercial success". While some may enjoy it, just about nobody is buying it for the American influences.

Aussie2B

08-26-2004, 11:08 PM

can you guys go PM each other or something. this is really becoming allot to scroll through and is way off the topic.

Yeah, it's pretty stupid. I got nothing more to say, so I'll just leave it at that. I don't want to torture the forum members anymore with this crap, haha. :P

zmweasel

08-27-2004, 04:07 AM

If you want to play that game, you keep misspelling fanboy as "fanboi".

I quite intentionally spell it with an I instead of a Y because the most rabid fanbois punctuate every sentence with the guttural noise "BOI!"

You, however, weren't aware of your mistake, and claimed not to care (which is bullshit, as you wrote a gigantor paragraph to explain away your error).

Either that or you too stubborn to ever admit that you're wrong about something. I'm guessing the latter. It was NOT an "idiotic generalization"; it was an OPINION. Just because YOU don't agree with it doesn't mean it's idiotic or that it's wrong. You'd think a video game journalist of all people would understand the difference between fact and opinion. I know I sure have to explain it a lot to dumb kids who get upset about my reviews.

Why don't you think something can be both an idiotic, incorrect generalization AND an opinion? 'Cause that's exactly what Calthaer's statement was.

If "dumb kids" aren't able to understand your "reviews," you need a competent editor, a remedial writing course, or both.

Maybe so, but you sure play the role of a rabid Sony fanboy quite well. If you fail to see that you're acting that way, then I honestly don't know what to say about that.

I'm not "playing any role," just providing a counter-point.

And, once again, let me remind you that it behooves me both personally and professionally for as many hardware platforms to succeed as possible. Fanbois allow emotional attachments to blind them to the realities of the industry, whereas I respect myself too much to bind my soul to a particular game company. (I have no problem with fans of the individuals who create games, but that's rather different.)

I find it interesting that you only single out Nintendo fanboys here. Going back to my previous statement, you have a long running tendency to go ballistic any time someone appears to show a preference of Nintendo over Sony and states such in a negative way towards Sony. Do you happen to remember the DS and PSP thread? Just because I was showing a preference for the DS over the PSP and stating a few reasons why, you went nuts.

No, I don't remember every detail of the DS/PSP thread, nor do I remember "going nuts" or "going ballistic." You seem to be reading WAAAAAY too much into my posts, detecting anger or passion that isn't there, and perhaps trying to give yourself imagined credit for "getting under my skin." I vaguely recall playing devil's advocate in that thread because I knew the Nintendo fanbois would make it a one-sided affair.

I single out and pick on Nintendo fanbois because they are unquestionably the greatest single threat to the health of videogame forums. Their hatred of Sony is particularly bizarre when Nintendo's long history of monopolistic, profiteering, censorious behavior is taken into account.

Anyway, going back to your comment, what about pre-crash fans who don't like modern games?

As long as they don't make any idiotic sweeping statements about all modern games being unworthy of attention, I wish them well.

What about Microsoft fanboys who hate PS2 and GameCube?

I don't know that I've ever encountered a Microsoft fanboi. Certainly not in these forums. Now, I've run into a lot of Halo fanbois, but that's different.

What about people who just plain haven't found much of anything of interest on PS2?

They need to look harder or find another hobby.

I said "most" so it's not a generalization; I realize there are exceptions. It comes from experience, so it's not based on ignorance. In my opinion, it's true, so it's not idiotic to me. Any other insults left that I can shoot down with hard facts? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, though. I meant most people in YOUR aspect of the industy - journalism, localization, etc. Programmers tend to be nice, down to earth people since they're so behind the scenes. It's the people who get a touch of the limelight that get big heads, start acting elistist, and so on (good example - Tommy Tallarico). As for the people who I do consider a joke, well, I don't bother with them and their work, so there you go. I don't waste my money on any current gaming magazines, and I play a lot of my games in Japanese.

You're lumping together game journalism and localization?! Those are entirely different fields. And what the hell are you categorizing under the "etc." header?

In my own experience, which is far more considerable than yours, programmers are assholes just as often as game designers, graphics artists, sound designers, and testers. Arguably even more often, since programmers are usually the smartest people involved in a game, and their intelligence can bring a certain amount of arrogance along with it.

Too bad you weren't at CGE's Activision panel to ask the founders of the company why they didn't stay at Atari and remain "behind the scenes," instead of placing their names and faces on their products and "getting big heads."

Tommy Tallarico, in the early days of his career, was as much a programmer as anything else. He just happened to program sound code instead of game code. And, as I've mentioned in these forums before, Tommy's public persona is nothing like his private persona. He's obviously hooked you with his love-him-or-hate-him approach, which is exactly what he wanted.

And I can direct you to threads in which you ARE idolized. And just the very fact that you can get away with shit that others can't says something.

Let's see some links to those threads, whereupon we can determine what you consider to be "idolization." There was one recent post in which a friend of mine said "I know my shit," but that was unfortunately in a thread where I made an incorrect claim based on dated information. I corrected my friend and gladly admitted to my error.

And I don't "get away with shit" on this forum. I receive no special treatment from the moderators, as they'll be happy to tell you.

Of course you wouldn't find it funny; it's intended to be insulting. However, it would benefit you to at least understand when someone is being serious or not. I find it laughable that you believed that I was honestly suggesting that you got paid money by Sony.

Considering the insulting suggestions made about me and my actions elsewhere in these forums, I have to take seriously just about any post in which I'm mentioned.

And I wasn't trying to insult your work or discuss your "localization approach". I'm simply stating that the games prove your sense of humor is pathetic. Mentioning something that exists in the real world is NOT a joke. It's just a pointless, awkward reference. Oh, and I love how you worked in the "they were critical and commercial successes" part. ;) Nice plug. I find it funny how you guys from Working Designs take all the credit for the games. Too bad you did no actual game development nor script writing (the REAL plot, that is, not all the side fluff). The games was already completed by little middle-aged Japanese men. Sorry to break it to you, but with the exception of maybe a few weirdos, it's the GAME that's selling the game, and earning the "critical and commercial success". While some may enjoy it, just about nobody is buying it for the American influences.

I'm glad to share a "pathetic" sense of humor with Dennis Miller and Mystery Science Theater 3000, and I'll repeat that I've already discussed the localization approach to the PS1 versions of Lunar, including the handling of pop-culture references, elsewhere in these forums. If you want to start a new thread to discuss that topic, feel free.

Your definition of "plug" differs from the dictionary's, but in any case, I mention the critical and commercial success of the PS1 Lunars to emphasize that you are virtually alone in your opinion that "50-year-old cat ladies" (and how IS your mom doing these days?) are funnier than the humorous aspects of Lunar: SSSC and Lunar: EBC.

Working Designs doesn't take "all the credit for the games." The logos of the original developers are prominently displayed on the packaging and in the games themselves. Victor devotes at least a page of each instruction manual to documenting the localization process. The Lunar manuals, hint books, and games had interviews with the Japanese creators. Once again (and again, and again), you're totally wrong.

Ask the programmers who worked on SSSC and EBC and they will, despite their behind-the-scenes humility, strongly disagree with you that "no actual game development" was done. Tim and Ken coded their asses off.

As for your bizarre line about "little middle-aged Japanese men"--what does "little" have to do with anything? You're dabbling in GameFan-esque racism with such odd asides.

Finally, the folks at Game Arts will gladly tell you that Working Designs' handling of the localization and promotion of Lunar is why the franchise became more popular in the U.S. than Japan.

I expect you'll continue to "torture the forum members with [your] crap" as long as I respond to your posts, but we'll see.

EDIT: I'm reading your "review" of SSSC on your personal website, and have a couple of notes.

1. You say that "I also dislike Alex because Working Designs tried too hard to make the player feel like he or she is Alex by making him rarely talk." Working Designs didn't decide that Alex should be a nearly-mute character; Game Arts did. Surely you know this.

2. I don't see a single complaint about the humorous content of SSSC's localized text. I do see "The manual makes a reference to Ed Asner. You know this game has got to be good." and "While the characters in Lunar don't have that original of [sic] personalities at first, the dialogue gives them more depth and makes them more likable."

-- Z.

zmweasel

08-27-2004, 04:10 AM

can you guys go PM each other or something. this is really becoming allot to scroll through and is way off the topic.

I've had a private email quoted out of context in this forum before, so I'm forced to keep "debates" public. Sorry.

-- Z.

Drexel923

08-27-2004, 11:08 AM

Wow, this thread got out of hand quickly. Why can't people just accept others points of view? And if you don't agree, then respond in a somewhat civil manner...jeez.

Anyway, back to the topic on hand:

There's plenty of stock of the best system around - and it's the cheapest. What's the problem here?

Here is my simplistic idea on the subject. Nintendo drops the price of the cube and basically gives away a $50 game with it before the holidays. Of course, this leads to a huge increase in sales, mostly from the people who were on the fence or someone looking for a cheap system. This had no problem holding up through the holidays cause thats when all the big games come out. But if you look at any system (and I do mean any), good game releases for the rest of the year are average. There isn't much new great product in the spring and summer to make someone really have to have a system. I think once October hits, and the new hit games start rolling out, you'll see plenty of cubes being sold along with PS2s and Xboxs.

Flack

08-27-2004, 11:25 AM

http://members.cox.net/robohara/getalong.jpg

Last Action Hero

08-27-2004, 11:37 AM

There's plenty of stock of the best system around - and it's the cheapest. What's the problem here?

Nintendo's games are no longer special. Once they went to 3d they became mediocre. Now it's just a matter of who has the most money to buy exclusive games and ad space in EGM. MS will eventually own the game industry. tyank you for reading

LazingBlazers

08-27-2004, 12:09 PM

To answer the lead post with my opinion (and keep in mind that I've played a lot of all 3):

GAMECUBE is for a niche market, and there just aren't that many niche players right now. Take the there lies strength in numbers aspect of the PS2 library, and the online supremecy of Fabulous Billy's "Wonder Machine"... and what do you have left? A system that is for kids, for people like me who like to play old school like GBA games on their TV sets, and/or fans of Nintendo's product (ie exclusives).

I like all of the current machines, and I think that they are all great in their own respect. But apparently the mass populous of the game buying public thinks that GCN deserves the Bronze.

EDIT: Forgot to add that it's just an internet message board. This comes from somebody who is basically a nobody who just like video games. Keep it in your pants.

RCM

08-27-2004, 12:25 PM

I find it funny that most people will say "GCN has no good games" or "Xbox has no good games." Or 3 good games a year or whatever.

How many of you have actually even previewed all or a vast majority of the titles out there? RCM has by the way. What I mean by preview to be perfectly clear in the simplest form is to play even a small portion of a title enough to get an idea of what it's about.

Until you've actually played a systems library don't judge. Just b/c Game Informer or some other trashy rag tells you it "sucks" or it's "awesome" might not mean that it is.

Carry on with the fight, er, "debate."

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

Mayhem

08-27-2004, 02:59 PM

I currently own nearly 70 GC titles, a mix of exclusive and across the formats games. Somehow I think there's plenty to get for the machine. Just as there is for the PS2 and Xbox as well.

slip81

08-27-2004, 03:04 PM

Why not just be like me and buy and enjoy all three systems (I haven't gotten an Xbox yet, but will soon, for Fable).

nesuser2

08-28-2004, 09:12 AM

I think people here should worry about others a little less. I bash PS2 all the time because I get sick of pure trash titles being pushed on it since it's the number one system right now. And just so I'm perfectly clear and some idiot doesn't try to throw that back at me:

I didn't say that there aren't any good titles released for PS2, just stating that there is a load of garbage released for it all the time. A higher percentage of pure junk, which is why most people edge away from complete PlayStation 1 or 2 collections because nobody really wants that much garbage. I also don't think the PS2 is quite as powerful as either of the other contending consoles.

It would be nice to see more quality titles for GCN but that probably won't happen, everyone will have to wait for the big N's next console.

The Xbox however is slowly starting to climb in my ranks though. It's a very versatile machine(with some extra parts) and pretty powerful. Most of the graphics on Xbox are usually pretty good, IMO. Also, I'm not much of a sports gamer or online sports for that matter but I believe you can play EA titles on XBL now, which is incredibly huge. XBL costs money but I'm sure there will be people lined up to get their hands on those games just for this purpose.

Best current next-gen console, The Dreamcast! Awesome selection, cheap accessories, cheap console, but no online gameplay. The killer graphics make up for it!(VGA)

Anyways, this thread really stayed on track!

RCM

08-28-2004, 11:32 AM

I didn't say that there aren't any good titles released for PS2, just stating that there is a load of garbage released for it all the time. A higher percentage of pure junk, which is why most people edge away from complete PlayStation 1 or 2 collections because nobody really wants that much garbage. I also don't think the PS2 is quite as powerful as either of the other contending consoles.

If you look at any game library you will find that most titles are shit. That's why I will never collect. I only get the titles I want or think I want!

You are totally right that the PS2 lacks the power of the GCN and Xbox. No doubt about it.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

josekortez

08-28-2004, 11:34 AM

All 3 systems kick ass for different reasons. Buy them all and kill the hate.

orrimarrko

08-28-2004, 12:54 PM

You know, a post like this is as ridiculous as other "vs. system" debates in the past.

Allow me to elaborate...

Super NES vs. Sega Genesis vs. TG-16/CD.

Without getting too involved, as this is just an example - not a way to derail the topic, is anyone actually going to sit here now and say that one of these particular systems has such a significant advantage over the others?

The SNES, Genesis and TG-16 ALL have great libraries, fun accessories, and tons of replay value, despite each of their shortcomings.

Since they're past systems now, they can all be purchased cheaply, and collections of truly great games can be easily acquired for each of the systems. It's not necessary to debate which is better at this point because it doesn't fucking matter.

If you like one over the others, then buy it, play it, and call it a day. It's not only an irrelevant argument, but has no logical or verifiable outcome, as it's all based ON OPINION!

Now, back to this retarded PS2 vs Xbox vs Gamecube (and by the way, it is "Gamecube")...

Each system has a number of exclusive titles released every year. Some are hits and more are misses. There can be just as much of an argument that each system has released a number of quality games for it.

The argument of "number" of hits for one system over the other is illogical, and misleading. If the PS2 released 200 games this year, and 50 of them were noteworthy by most people's standards, then that's 25% - compared to 75% of the usual shelf fodder.

If the Gamecube released the same number of games, which we all know that they don't, then you could look to compare numbers. Since that isn't the case, then you have to look at how many games were released this year (which is easy to do) and how many are worth a crap. Divide the two, and get the percentage. Compare that percentage, which I honestly believe is in the same neck of the woods as either the PS2 or the Xbox, and you have your answer.

Everyone will ALWAYS have a favorite system - there's nothing wrong with that, obviously. But I am SO sick of people trying to logically justify why their system of choice is "better" than the others available.

Just plain dumb.

Myself, I own all three, and play all three, and do NOT have a favorite, as there are things that I like about each system. I buy and play crap games as well as good games for each system, and call it a day.

I knew going into the purchase of a Gamecube that there would ALWAYS be some games that would never be released on that system, just as I knew the same for the Xbox and PS2.

Quite honestly, I think there have been an exceptional number of great games released for the Gamecube this year, with a lot more to come from now until Xmas. Same thing for the other two systems.

The Gamecube has had the lowest number of releases since the three systems were released (365 total so far), but you should have known that going into the purchase.

The N64 only had 297 releases, compared to over 1,000 for the Playstation.

Did you really think that Nintendo thought they were going to make a comeback with the Gamecube vs the PS2, when the PS2 was released first?

The mere fact that the Gamecube has virtually no online games, no dvd capabilities, and a smaller library, plus a lower system price point all point to the FACT that Nintendo knows they aren't in charge.

So what is there to debate?

zmweasel

08-28-2004, 05:49 PM

Now, back to this retarded PS2 vs Xbox vs Gamecube (and by the way, it is "Gamecube")...

Nope. It's GameCube, no space, capital C. Refer to Nintendo's own website, its own press kits and releases, etc.

-- Z.

farfel

08-28-2004, 08:53 PM

Every system has good points and bought all of them

CUBE - beautiful Nintendo masterpieces - Metroid, Zelda, Eternal Darkness

PS2 - lots of variety - RPG,FPS,DDR,ICO,GT4,R&C, and just-plain-weird (Mr Mosquito)

BOX - Halo 1, Halo 2, and when not playing Halo, a great paperweight

captain nintendo

08-29-2004, 03:10 AM