Throws salt in the wound: More XBox woes

[Achika]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/28180.html

Anyone else read this?

How long before innocent purchasers can't get online because some hacker used his S/N?

6-8 weeks with a review and a copy of your reciept. (har har)

How long before a program is written to generate "generic" S/N?

[kainemaxwell]

Gotta wonder if all this will do more harm then good and give MS a bad rap...

[kobunheatforum]

Oh, THAT's why the hard drive is there.

"On initial connect to Xbox Live an update is downloaded, and this includes the software that detects the mod chip."

Makes total sense NOW - the HDD is so Microsoft can upload new, permanent software to your drive without you knowing it! Hooray!

[Sylentwulf]

Well.... The problem is.. Good for microsoft. BUT, only if NO innocent users get banned, which is impossible.

When imports are playable, and copies require a mod-chip, then I will feel bad about modding a system. Until the big three let people PLAY IMPORTS, they can go fuck themselves (Which they are).

I know imports aren't as much of an issue with americans for the xbox, but the above is just a general statement.

[Raedon]

why I never plan on going online with an Xbox.. I got a PC, no need for an Xbox..

[kobunheatforum]

Until the big three let people PLAY IMPORTS, they can go fuck themselves (Which they are).

Someone on another thread nearly hit on why region differences are important to some people. Let's imagine an alternate reality, where the PS1 is entirely region-free.

Sony, on the phone with Working Designs: "Yes Vic, we've approved your request to localize Silhouette Mirage. However, since it's already been made available in Japan and thus every Funco from here to Flint already carries it and everyone who might concievably want it has already bought it, we anticipate that you will sell a total of three copies, two of which will be bought by your mother. Sound good?"

Victor Ireland: *does not answer because the cardboard box he lives in does not have telephone service*

Get it yet?

[kainemaxwell]

Well innocent people have been banned before at battle.net along with the not-so-innocent so bound to happen again. Which in turn will leave some people with a bad outlook on MS...

[Sylentwulf]

Until the big three let people PLAY IMPORTS, they can go fuck themselves (Which they are).

Someone on another thread nearly hit on why region differences are important to some people. Let's imagine an alternate reality, where the PS1 is entirely region-free.

Sony, on the phone with Working Designs: "Yes Vic, we've approved your request to localize Silhouette Mirage. However, since it's already been made available in Japan and thus every Funco from here to Flint already carries it and everyone who might concievably want it has already bought it, we anticipate that you will sell a total of three copies, two of which will be bought by your mother. Sound good?"

Victor Ireland: *does not answer because the cardboard box he lives in does not have telephone service*

Get it yet?


That's funny, I didn't think that many people spoke japanese or felt like paying out the ass for an import from across sea's. The average gamer does NOT import games and wouldn't know how to even if it didn't require a mod.

[CrazyImpmon]

So what happens if you bought an used XBox from a repuable source like Funcoland and XBox won't get online because it was banned? I could see the store tracking the original owner through the sales log and making him/her buy it back. Or maybe they'd test the connectivity before buying it? Defiantly a nightmare for used console market not to mention the mod chip maker for coming up with a new super-stealth version.

Looks like it's time to get a fake IDs if I ever need to sell a banned XBox to Funcoland. LOL

[YoshiM]

I'm sure there's more behind the scenes than what was written in that and other articles. It's really no different than signing up onto Battle.Net and using hacked software. You have to put in a serial number, they have it, and they can ban you if you go against the TOS. This type of instance happens when you buy PSO for Dreamcast used-if the previous owner signed up and the hardware ID and software ID don't match, you can't play online (I think that's how it goes, PSO players am I right?).

It IS their service, they DO have the right to accept or deny access. It's like getting digital cable and wanting to use your own cable box rather than what the cable company gives you. You think the dude installing your cable is gonna let you do that? No!

I think the mod detection is okay. They can't assume you are a pirate or a cheater, but they can't assume that you are not either. So they fall to the side of caution and block the modders. And, compared to the total number of XBox owners, what percentage of them mod their XBoxes? I would say "not many", not enough to cause a shift for MS to change their services to accomodate modders. As for serial numbers and getting a used box that may have been banned, I'm sure the customer can work with Microsoft and that some arrangement could be made (I mean, you give them a credit card number or SOME sort of legit info to sign up for service so it ain't hard to keep records on who has what legitimately). At the extreme, especially with all these services that require security, don't buy used decks. It's a "buyer beware", like buying a car and finding out they installed nitro boosters or buying a DirecTV box and finding out its got a pirate card in it. You bought, you didn't ask the right questions, you get burned. It happens with many things in life, so just buy new or confirm that the unit was never used in XBox Live (or was modded).

As for uploading software unknowingly, what's to gain? It's not like its your PC with personal info. They GOT the info when you signed up, the only additional info they could get off of you is how well you are doing in Halo and what music you have DL'd onto the hard drive. Unless you are somehow writing secret messages in the names of save files to spread to the underground resistance forces :P

My 700 quatloos on this.

[kobunheatforum]

The 'average' person doesn't import not because they WOULDN'T but because they CAN'T, at least not through regular channels.

Back when all you needed to do to play import PS1 games was the swap trick, Electronics Boutique was selling the Japanese version of Toshinden 2 in all of its stores! And how much Japanese do you need to know to play that?

Same thing with the Sega Saturn, once the convertor slash RAM cart was made available - a quick trip to EB would net you a convertor and X-Men vs. SF for around $80 total.

If you could play import PS2 games on the US PS2, there would be a LOT of imports in EB and a LOT of unhappy third parties. Prices would go right down - I mean, look at National Console Support's average prices. They're only a few dollars more expensive than the Japanese retail price, and they're still a 'specialty' store.

Fact is, beyond RPGs you don't need to know that much Japanese to import. People would if it was as easy as walking into EB. And third parties would be pissed.

[NvrMore]

Unless you are somehow writing secret messages in the names of save files to spread to the underground resistance forces :P

:o Damn he knows!, he knows!!

Move to plan C:

Liberate all Hamster slaves from their western oppressors, relocate all Prototype YCylinder units and.. erm.. er.. um.. kill YoshiM.. or.. maybe just think bad things about him.. yeah.. that'll do..

vive la resistance! :scrambleup:

[Nature Boy]

The 'average' person doesn't import not because they WOULDN'T but because they CAN'T, at least not through regular channels.

I'm not certain I agree with you. If you could import games I'm willing to bet that developers would release all languages at once. And the real reason for importing, getting a game that you'll *never* see in your area, is no longer harmful.

Which isn't to say I'm pro allowing importing. I'm just disagreeing with your sentiment about importing running rampant. Most people don't buy import CDs either because they're so much more expensive. Unless you're a diehard that is and you can't get a domestic release.

I'm not sure how I feel about the anti-modding thing. Do you think the cheating angle is far fetched? If people are modding their system to cheat then I'm all for banning them. Otherwise I'm not against it really. Not that I'd do it myself.

[slapdash]

Sony, on the phone with Working Designs: "Yes Vic, we've approved your request to localize Silhouette Mirage. However, since it's already been made available in Japan and thus every Funco from here to Flint already carries it and everyone who might concievably want it has already bought it, we anticipate that you will sell a total of three copies, two of which will be bought by your mother. Sound good?"

One small comment here, with all due respect to Vic...

How about Working Designs start coding their own games?

I realize that "that's not what they do", but more generally speaking, if we can get imports here, then companies here should start making their own games instead of localizing.

Or, knowing that now there aren't regions, most games should be regionalized, and maybe these companies can specialize in for a bunch of companies instead of publishing on their own. Regionalize 30 games a year for other companies rather than 2 a year for themselves.

Taking away regional lockouts isn't going to be doom for everybody. On the other hand, it won't happen because of copyright and licensining issues that go beyond the games industry.

[bargora]

Someone on another thread nearly hit on why region differences are important to some people. Let's imagine an alternate reality, where the PS1 is entirely region-free.

Sony, on the phone with Working Designs: "Yes Vic, we've approved your request to localize Silhouette Mirage. However, since it's already been made available in Japan and thus every Funco from here to Flint already carries it and everyone who might concievably want it has already bought it, we anticipate that you will sell a total of three copies, two of which will be bought by your mother. Sound good?"

Victor Ireland: *does not answer because the cardboard box he lives in does not have telephone service*

Get it yet?

OK, that was me in the other post, and I mentioned in the original that Working Designs would get cut out of the loop when you buy the import. So when you or others say that importing causes somebody to lose profits, are you referring strictly to the localization companies like WD?

Now, I am saddened by the image of Mr. Ireland living in a cardboard box. And as I am relatively new to importing, I did not realize that Japanese games were freely available in North American shops during the early disk-swapping days of the PSX. Thus, I did not think that even a "relatively" (not to mention completely) region-free console would lead to large-scale purchasing of import titles. Has anyone compiled numbers on how many import sales were made during this period? In other words, is there any evidence (aside from seeing imports available in shops) that making it easy to import has a serious measurable effect on companies like Working Designs?

Personally, I have never imported a game if a localization was forthcoming. I have only imported games that remained JP only. Maybe I am unusual in that respect. I don't know. But I would think that the great majority of U.S. gamers would also wait for a North American version IF they knew that one was forthcoming, unless they had some reason to assume that the localized version would be inferior. How long of a delay is there generally between the time of the Japanese release and the announcement that the game will be localized for North America?

Oh, so many questions.
--Alan

[Achika]

At Funco, we don't take back PSO for the reasons that some one may have used that online. I can forsee we may not take the XBox Live kits back, but I'll check on sunday when I go to work. The only way around that is a quick call to Sega to tell them to release that S/N, cause you're giving up the game.

But in this case, "thinking" like Microsoft has put me in a position to say, that if some person bought a used XBox (or even a new one with a S/N that's been hacked) I'd say MS would ask the customer to send in a dated sales reciept with proof, clearly showing the S/N number and a statement. But as with all mail programs with a turn around service, this would require a 6-8 week wait.

That's the only thing I can forsee them doing that would help the customer in this respect.

[Raedon]

It's like getting digital cable and wanting to use your own cable box rather than what the cable company gives you. You think the dude installing your cable is gonna let you do that? No!

Actually all Cable ISP's will let you use your own cable modem. They will still charge you a Cable modem rental fee but you can use any modem you want.

[congobongo]

It's like getting digital cable and wanting to use your own cable box rather than what the cable company gives you. You think the dude installing your cable is gonna let you do that? No!

Actually all Cable ISP's will let you use your own cable modem. They will still charge you a Cable modem rental fee but you can use any modem you want.

I believe YoshiM was refering to cable TV, not cable internet service.

[YoshiM]

I believe YoshiM was refering to cable TV, not cable internet service.

You are correct, I meant the channel changer. Not that I've looked to see if such devices were available for the average person to go and purchase, but I'm sure if they were they wouldn't install. I might be behind the times is the goings on of cable TV appliances, so forgive me. But I'm sure get the idea I was trying to get across.

[kainemaxwell]

Reminds me of the hassle with buying a used PSO game that you couldn't get online with that registery #.