sealing snes games Is there more than one way to seal a game

[jan112850]

I wish feedback on the following
I have thoroughly researched snes super nintendo games and am absolutely convinced that there are authentic ways that these games were sealed.
This opinion is contrary to the current opinion of collectors who seem to be unconvinced with any argument that there is more than one way to factory seal a snes game.

I know several collectors, friends, who purchased snes games from reptuable local US retailers within 1 to 2 years after release and have them unopened.
Many of these games are sealed in an alternative way other than the classic H method.

I have such purchased games myself bought in 1994-5 from Toys r us or a like retaliler.

A recent seller confided in me that her video store had found a box of old snes games bought from reputable distrubitors with some of the games sealed in an alternative method all with hangers and all looking new. Getting curious, the owner opened one of the lesser value games. The game was new in every way and had all official nintendo inserts and everying was brand new.

I purpose that snes games may be sealed 3 different ways and still be absolutely factory sealed and authentic.
1. The classic H seal with the seam/line running down the long edge of the box and an extension of the seam down the middle of the back.
2. Seams/lines on the long edges of the box, but no extension from that seam to the back of the box
3. seams/lines across the short end of the box, a wide strip down the horizonal back of the box caused by an overlay in the wrapping and extending up onto the sides of the box.

I also would purpose its silly to think 500,000 games or whatever large number are all factory sealed the same way. These games were sealed in many different US factories and not every factory used the same sealing technique or had ever the same sealing machines. They used what they had and probably many of these factories sealed other brands as well. They sealed games outsourced by Nintendo or even the developer of the game.

I would love to hear back from collectors with any comments. PLEASE tho don't just say "you know" the games are sealed only one way. PLEASE give some factual evidence to back up your claim, not just hearsay from other collectors.

The question is important because I maintain that there are 1000's of old snes games labeled as fakes because of alternative sealing. Many of those games are problably new factory sealed games yet are avoided because of a mistaken theory of snes sealing.

The one thing I admit is that if you have a game sealed with the vertical seam down the back, you are more certain of its origin. But that doesn't make the others fake. Maybe other things are more important than the seams/lines. Maybe the artwork on the cover, the quiality of the nintendo seal and other markings should be looked at instead of the seams. Not many collectors seem to get past the seams. If the game is not sealed with the H type sealing, rarely do they bother to examine the rest of the snes game.

Please help if you are aware of any facts concerning snes sealing or if you have purchased a "new" game at a US retail store with different sealing of the game

[Ed Oscuro]

I am very uneasy seeing this topic widely discussed, especially without a picture of a game in question.

You have to excuse me but - unless somebody's got a picture to share, I have to wonder if they're trying to milk us for knowledge about how to reseal games so they can sell 'em on eBay with rocks inside.

I'm not saying that's your intent...but this still worries me.

[jan112850]

As a collector I have a stake in this and have several of these games.
I could take some digital pictures but I'm not sure how to insert them into the forum. Maybe you could help me there. Most collectors of snes have seen all 3 of these variants already tho and I just have an academic interest in solving this puzzle once and for all. I've never resealed a game and wouldn't even know where to start. MY motives here are strictly to try and solve a puzzle that as a collector of many types of games, has bothered me. I also collect ps1 and I know for a fact they are sealed 2 different ways.
I'm newer to snes collecting.
Thanks

[JJNova]

Dude.....I was reading your posts in the ZSNES forum, and I have to say...you got ripped of.

This is not a collector telling you this, so don't argue with me about how,"All my games have the vertical line" so that's what I think. Here's an Idea that I just conducted, and you will find your answer if you do the same thing. Why don't you research what paper companiy it was that produced the majority of the SNES games...and you will see....that it was done by one...

Another option is to write Nintendo at http://www.nintendo.com They are good people that work there. Most answers come back quickly.

Oh yeah....and you got ripped off on those three "sealed" games that feel like phone card plastic...

sorry.

[Bronty-2]

I think you're right.

the vast majority should have the H seam, but there would be exceptions (certain titles only).

The horizontal overlap seam - I've definitely heard of snes being sealed that way. I don't collect snes as much but it seems totally legit because some later nes games were sealed the same way (vertical overlap).

The top and bottom only strips should only be on those majesco reissues as I understand it. Which is why it would be nice if someone was able to add some info on majesco in that other thread. So for Contra 3, mega man x, super castlevania 4 etc, there should be an original H seam version and a later top and bottom strip reissue.

Still, like 98% or something of the titles should be H seam only. (estimate pulled out of my butt). Between myself and some friends I've seen or heard of sealed examples for like half the library and very, very, very few have been non-h-seam. I can't even think of horizontal overlap game off the top of my head, although I'm pretty sure there is a small handful of titles like that.

[jan112850]

I wrote nintendo 3 times and all 3 responses were THEY DO NOT KNOW AND CAN NOT HELP.

If you read the other forum posts everyone suggested I post here as I would get more collectors responding, then you respond with the same unbacked up no facts answer. Thanks

[Bronty-2]

do you have a link to thread in the other forum? I'd be curious to read that too

[NintendoMan]

I am very uneasy seeing this topic widely discussed, especially without a picture of a game in question.

You have to excuse me but - unless somebody's got a picture to share, I have to wonder if they're trying to milk us for knowledge about how to reseal games so they can sell 'em on eBay with rocks inside.

I'm not saying that's your intent...but this still worries me.

Ed, that's exaclty what it sounds like to me now that I think about it. "Trying to milk us for knowledge about to to reseal games" I am a sealed nintendo games collector and have MANY sealed games, and consider myself somewhat of a sealed game expert.
I mean the guy is new to hear and he just comes on about saying how there is more than one way to seal a snes game.

Now, I am not saying that's what your doing, but to me thats exactly what it sounds like, trying to figure out how the seal is exaclty on certain games. I have close to 400 sealed games and really have no clue what your talking about?

[Bronty-2]

I totally disagree with the fear about discussing this openly. The open flow of information is the only thing that's going to stop resealers, IMO.

[jan112850]

I am not asking you how to seal an snes game. I am asking if any experienced collectors accept the fact that there is more than one way to seal an snes game or do they hold the majority opinion that the H seal is the only way to tell.

Anyone with 400 games must have thought about snes sealing somehow or else he accepts that the games are sealed several ways and doesn't care.
Score one for my side

[badinsults]

do you have a link to thread in the other forum? I'd be curious to read that too


http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=594

I was the one that suggested he come here, but that was before I knew how much of a prick he is. I recommend ignoring him, because he is very rude and pushy.

[NintendoMan]

I am not asking you how to seal an snes game. I am asking if any experienced collectors accept the fact that there is more than one way to seal an snes game or do they hold the majority opinion that the H seal is the only way to tell.

Anyone with 400 games must have thought about snes sealing somehow or else he accepts that the games are sealed several ways and doesn't care.
Score one for my side

Well not all my sealed games are SNES, but do believe, with the exception of Un-Licensed games, that ALL snes games have the H seam. At least from my collecting expierence, seeing games in stores, and on ebay.

[jan112850]

thank you nintendo man for giving me your opinion as a long time nintendo collector. That's all I asked for to begin with. I came to the forum with a simple theory, which I still believe may be true. That snes games MAY be sealed differently. I don't know why this offends so many people. In 15 responses I get accused of trying to find out how to seal games, get called a prick by the same guy who told me to come here for the answer, and lots of other crap which has nothing to do with the issue.

If I can't get a clue of the real answer here, a place for collectors, and Nintendo won't comment or says they don't know, what else can I do?

I don't understand why a "forum" isn't a place you can state a position on collectable video games and ask for comments.

I thought thats what forums were for. To discuss issues and in this forum its video games.

I don't think I acted like a prick or a theif or deserved any character assasination.

I'm sorry I upset so many people (except Evan) he's a prick.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Let's see if we can do this without the name calling from EITHER side. Thanks.

[JJNova]

I am not asking you how to seal an snes game. I am asking if any experienced collectors accept the fact that there is more than one way to seal an snes game

You just stated yoursel that this wasn't a fact, that you have no knowledge whatsoever.

I'm confused ??

[DasCrewShtool]

I have 45 sealed SNES games and all of then have the H seal, I have a friend that works at Game Exchange and he is a master at resealing games, some of the aformentioned sealings you have discovered can be easily duplicated with the proper talent. you got screwed.

[charitycasegreg]

Id say keep up your quest, if anyone gives you shit, give them rabies, or shoot them with a BB gun.

[Iron Draggon]

Not to accuse anyone of anything here, but I must say that the title of this thread drew me in because it sounded exactly like someone was asking for information on how to reseal a SNES game. I was about to go ballistic on it.

Now with that said, the only SNES game that I recall purchasing without the H seam was an obvious reseal job. The box was partially crushed on one side, but mysteriously there was no looseness at all to the plastic, and no damage to the plastic whatsoever. So it was obvious that the box had been crushed before it was sealed, not after. And that would never have made it past QC.

When I opened the box, everything inside looked the same as it would for a genuine factory sealed game, and it even smelled the same too, or at least the same as I would expect a genuine factory sealed game that was over 10 years old to smell, but it was still obviously a bad reseal job. So this is my best guess as to how such a game could appear to be new, and yet be resealed:

The box was used for a store display at some point. All the game stores used to do this. A game comes in, they open it. Seal the inner white box with the instructions and warranty card, file it away. Seal the outer box, put it on the display. Customers take the empty box to the counter, trade it for a brand new copy that's never been opened. Eventually, there's no more unopened copies left. Customer takes empty box to counter, store retrieves the sealed inner white box from files, asks if the customer still wants it, sorry last copy.

If the customer says they'll take it anyway, both boxes are opened, their contents are reunited, and the box is once again resealed. Now two things can happen here. The customer could return it "unopened" to the store, and it could be restocked with the new shipment that just came in. Then it could be resold to another unsuspecting customer, or it could be sent back to the distribution center, if nobody buys it and that location gets closed.

Any number of things could happen to it over the course of 10 years before it finally appears on ebay one day, but for all practical purposes it is indeed a "new & sealed" game. It's just not factory sealed, that's all. And the box is crushed on one side because it's been on display with nothing inside it while dozens of people took it up to the counter and traded it for a factory sealed copy. So technically there's nothing dishonest happening here at all. At some point the game was bought wholesale from a distribution center, and sold to someone. It may have been sold and resold any number of times since then.

But for collectors like us, this is of course a tragedy, and we tend to blame it on the seller. They probably don't know the hobby as well as we do, but no matter, us collectors have been wrongfully deceived. We bought ourselves a game that was alleged to be new & sealed, and we assume that the obvious reseal means that it isn't really new. The seller bought it in the exact same condition as we did, and was told the exact same thing about it. This game is new and sealed. Not being collectors, they assume this to be entirely true.

So reseals like this one are not always just another scammer trying to pull the wool over a poor collector's eyes and charge him factory sealed prices for a game that's obviously not factory sealed. It's just the sad result of something that used to be a very common practice among all the game stores back in the day. Of course there are plenty of scammers out there who really are trying to take advantage of us collectors, but I'm just saying that things like this explain very reasonably how some games can appear like this in the wild.

[SoulBlazer]

What do you mean game stores USED to do this?

They STILL do this with all of the modern games....except the CD cases are not sealed when they are on display, so no need to re-seal them.

Good post, though. :)

[Bronty-2]

Steve,

I can't believe the shit you're getting over this. Perfectly legitimate question.

Yeah, I think those games you bought weren't legit as we spoke about privately, but I think it was extremely poor taste for people to rub it in your face. Frankly I can't help but think some of these reactions are coming out of jealously (because it sure as hell isn't coming out of compassion). Screw 'em.

Let me ask you this: what titles did you buy with the horizontal overlap? I should be able to find another copy to compare to among someone else's collection.

Bottom line is it should almost always be the H seam. The non-h games are real anomalies. Obviously I didn't work at nintendo so I don't have first hand experience, but between myself and a couple friends we've seen hundreds of snes, all with the H seam except some copies of MMX, castle 4, and contra 3. Those are really the only three exceptions I can think of.

PS I'm going to email you about "mr difficult" tomorrow.

cheers

[Bronty-2]

deleted

[mikeetler]

Bottom line is it should almost always be the H seam. The non-h games are real anomalies. Obviously I didn't work at nintendo so I don't have first hand experience, but between myself and a couple friends we've seen hundreds of snes, all with the H seam except some copies of MMX, castle 4, and contra 3. Those are really the only three exceptions I can think of.

Robocop vs Termonator was abnomal because of the box and did not have a seam.

The reason some copies of the three games you mention don't is I don't think any of the Majesco re-issues had seams and all three of those were re-issued by them.

I'm farily sure there were some Acclaim manufactured games (yes, they did manufacture they're own for a while) that also lacked seams.

-Mike

[scorch56]

I feel for you too guy. You should be able to ask any question you want.. to H*ll with the "snobs".

But this issue has gotten so much forum-time lately.. that the other day I decided to drag out all of my "sealed" SNES games and look at them. A recent purchase of Speedy Gonzales on eBay from a semi-shady seller made me curious.

I found three games in my collection WITHOUT the H seal. They were all "non-rares".. so I just decided to open them anyway and see what was inside. All of them were sealed the same way.. your method #3.

My results:

Speedy Gonzales-
Looked totally new. Came with cart wrapped in it's OWN plastic bag.. TOTALLY untouched and "crisp"; Manual; Consumer Information & Precautions booklet.. and OH CRAP!! WTF?.. A warranty registration card addressed to Majesco? OK.. looking at this.. I'd have to say I f'ed up. The box says SunSoft & Akklaim.. but the back of the manual also has Majesco on it. I REALLY don't think this was a reseal. OH well.. TIME TO PLAY! Bought off of eBay very recently.

Vortex-
This box looks new as well.. except for a slight "dent" that slightly begins to tear through the "shiny" printing on the box. I really don't recall if yesterday while I was opening it.. the plastic wrap was damaged over where the box damage was.. but it should have been. Wished I'd noticed.. sorry. Looking inside I see a cart.. again wrapped in it's own baggy.. seemingly untouched as well. Inside is the manual; warranty card; the "Whoa!" flyer; the precautions booklet and a poster I'm not even gonna' unfold because it's obvious it never has been. My conclusion? This WAS really "mint" as well. I got this one off of eBay as well.. about 6 months ago.

Urban Strike-
OK.. now this one I PERSONALLY bought from our local TRU about 5 years ago. Our TRU is a VERY big store in our dinky town (size-wise) and I SERIOUSLY doubt though.. that they could, would or have the equipment for a reseal. I'm not going to get into arguments here (and no.. I don't care if you "used" to work at TRU either.. I'm NOT impressed) but this is the ONLY one I can personally vouch for as I bought it originally; and have NEVER opened it. Inside was the usual cart wrapped in plastic; the manual; the precautions booklet and (crap again!).. the Majesco registration card!

So what conclusion have I come to? None.. I think I just opened up 3 perfectly sealed games to prove.. nothing. So what's my point? Actually.. I have one of those NOW. If I were you.. I'd give up trying to discuss this issue with most everybody. Unless you're some kind of retentive collector who just HAS to have sealed games (WHY.. is beyond me).. either open them.. or don't. Rest in your own mind that in fact.. the games are sealed and new TO YOU; and forget what the others say.

Like many people here.. I don't go out of my way to purchase sealed games. If I see a game I've wanted for some time.. and it just so happens to be sealed.. and the price is right.. I'll buy it. That's ALSO not to say that I open them because I don't.. but I don't keep them for resale or because I'm a "sealed" collector by any means either. The thing I like the most about them is that they are COMPLETE.. not sealed.

Having said that.. I would never also buy a "rares" title sealed simply because I can't afford the price of these titles sealed.. don't want to POSSIBLY get ripped off.. and also am more into "completion" than "untouched". Besides.. they're too fun to play.

A couple of last thoughts..

I took ALL of the paperwork (especially the shiny manuals) and held them to the light. Unless the former owner.. then the sales clerks.. and then the "resealer" wore gloves.. I would think one would either find fingerprints; greasiness, or smudges on the manuals or plastic baggies were skin contact was made. Attempting to wipe off fingerprints as well.. would leave traces (smudges).. unless someone has found a way to safely "polish" paper.

Also; has anybody ever discussed the use (i.e. who [manufacturer-wise] & what kind of..) of those cart pin-end covers were used? Should every game have one? Probably not.. as the only time I've ever seen them is on RPG titles (Square-Enix? Hmmm..). I'd like to know.

Also.. if a game has memory back-up.. I would think that examining the save slots for anything more than a "blank" would be a dead giveaway as well.

My games collection.. now 3 sealed games less.. oh well..

[NintendoMan]

WOW. I didn't think so many people would get affended by other people on this topic. Speaking only for my side of my post, just my the topic subject name and then his first post, it just looked like it was asking how to reseal, NOT saying that's what he was doing, it just looked like that to me. I have been asked by people before through ebay, I guess they asked me because they have seen alot of the sealed games I have bought, on how and what different kind of sealed before. I then check out these peoples feedbacks before and asnswer and then come to find out that they have hella negative feedback points and some even say "Seller resealed game". So being a "sealed" game collector I watch out for those things, espcially since I have been ripped off twice, with each game costing me about 120 apiece. That was when I was a beginer in my sealed game quest, so will NEVER let that happen again.
But anyways, I am not tring to be a "prick" or anything else, it's just that's what it sounded like in the beginning of this thread, before the guy who posted this topic got more in depth with what he wanted to know. :D

[Bronty-2]

I found three games in my collection WITHOUT the H seal. They were all "non-rares".. so I just decided to open them anyway and see what was inside.



Good post.... so what we really need to find out here is the complete list of games that Majesco reissued. Anyone have any leads? :?

[Bronty-2]

I'm farily sure there were some Acclaim manufactured games (yes, they did manufacture they're own for a while) that also lacked seams.

-Mike

Hi Mike,

Right, I think it would make sense for Acclaim and/or LJN SNES to have the horizontal overlap since the late issue nes games by those companies had a similar seal method...

I wonder how long that was the case though. I bet there is probably a cutoff date. So since the late issue (past 1990 or so) nes acclaim/ljn were sealed that way, I would expect the early issue ljn/acclaim snes to be that way, but maybe not the late issue ljn/acclaim snes? Any input?

[JJNova]

Hello and thank you for contacting Nintendo,

Unfortunately, the information that you have requested is not something we normally track. However, I can tell you that most of the SNES games are actually produced and packaged in Japan. If you want, you can contact them at the address listed below.

Nintendo Company, Ltd.
11-1 Kamitoba-hokotate-cho
Minami-ku
Kyoto 601-8501
Japan
Phone: (011) 81 75 662 9600
Web: www.nintendo.co.jp
(Note: All inquiries to NCL must be in Japanese.)

Sincerely,

Nintendo of America, Inc.

[vincewy]

Just slightly off topic but fair relevant, if selaed factory SNES games are difficult to identify, wait a few years when people go into sealed GameCube collection.

At my store, I'm already seeing a few variants, one, obviously, is cellophane folded seal, this is guaranteed factory seal. Other factory sealed games come with shrinkwrap, most Acclaim games use shrinkwrap, but with tiny holes to allow air and prevent warping of case covers due to high temp. I'm also seeing shrinkwrap games without holes, many of the games have covers warped and wrinkled up like crazy, not good, as some stores have storage areas getting really hot during the summer (ie 120 degree).

Oh yeah, never buy sealed games from Gamestop, one of the biggest scams in VG market.

[jan112850]

Boy do I feel a lot better. You guys are attacking the subject and we are collectors with lots of experience and so this is the place for any clues about snes sealing and what is factory and what may not be. I acutally find the subject most interesting, as you all know and appreciate the topic being taken seriously.

To Scorch56, Thank you for the extent you went to to actually open up some games. Sounds like they were pretty new inside and maybe they were resealed still but had new contents.

To Iron Draggon, Best and most thought out post yet. Of course the stores do that and it would be completely reasonable that they reseal the games with the new materials they have saved separately and then the games make into the open market. I'll bet thats how a lot of them got there. Not factory sealed, really, but new and complete.

To Vince Ivy, nothing can take the place of the experience of an acutal store owner who knows how games come in from distributers. Helping to id Aklaim as an "alternative" sealer is a huge step forward.

So far it seems that Aklaim and resissues of Majestic may be acutal snes factory sealed games that are sealed differently. The question is how many of these games do you guys have sealed the H way or are none sealed the conventional way.

Maybe we will find other companies commonly sealing differently.

My games now which are not sealed with the H seal, are Castlevania 4, a Konami game, (mentioned by another collector as having a different seal also plus the one on ebay now with a different seal (thats 3), A mega man x game, by capcom, purchased off ebay (which stumps me because the seams are along the long edges not the short ones but no extension from those seams down the middle, also in this case the box is a little mashed so maybe Iron Draggon's theory applies to that one) and lastly an old cheap game I bought from a retalier in early snes called Super Bases Loaded by Jaleco/Nintendo which again has the seams/lines down the long edges of the box but no extension down the back.

I bought all these games as a novice before I really started looking seriously at snes sealing, collecting.

All my games by koei, namco, mindscape, Nintendo, squaresoft, Enix, others by Konami, Hal, Fox, FCI, Capcom, SETA, are H Sealed.

Any thoughts on Castlevania 4 which the previous poster mentioned with a different seal, plus mine plus the one on ebay? That's 3 and maybe some of you have an H sealed one, I'd like to know.

The poster JJ Nova was especially helpful as first of all I didn't know they were mostly sealed in Japan. I have a patient who is japanese and I will ask him to call the number provided to ask about their experience in sealing.

I think this discussion has turned around and much thanks to all of you really "thinking" out there. I appreciate it and if some of this leads to conclusion which will help other collectors great. I know some of you think i'm just trying to justify the games I have which are not H sealed, but not true, I want to get closer to the truth on this thng, and if I took a dive due to ignorance on some games as many of you did, then that's ok, I'll learn from it and be more careful. But if there are exceptions it would help all of sealed collectors to know all we can about what really happens with sealing and then we can make up our own minds.

Resealing goes on, no doubt about it, but if we can learn what to look for if we want to avoid a resealed game its helpful. I do believe any games with the H seal are golden. Its the others that are interesting to me, the exceptions.

By the way I have a ff2 coming from ebay and I have a feeling I was taken on that one. I'll prob open and sell it complete since no one will put out that kind of money for a less than sure thing.

I thank all of you who are contributing to the solution for this puzzle and will continue to follow postings and let you know after My patient talks with the Japanese company, I'll supply him with the questions as he's not a video game collector or gamer.
S

[jan112850]

Why do they have to put us thru this? Why not protect their games against fraud? Why not have a simple barcode seal from the factory like ps2, ps1, xbox etc. You'd think in all the years they have been around they'd do it. Who wants to rely on sealing of a game anyway? Dreamcast is another problem. I don't get it. On this aside, I really don't expect any help just being a little philosophical.
S

[vincewy]

Another tips on sealed games, if you're into Dreamcast collection, pretty much all original factory seal games use cellophane folded seal, but a few games are different:

Acclaim: Most early games use heat shrinkwrap with horizontal seam aross the back of the case, any other seals are not factory seal. There're a few games that came with cellophane seal but the majority use shrinkwrap with aforementioned feature. I came across a perfact condition Shadowman with cellophane seal and paid $30 for it, if you ask an average gamer they'll say I'm nuts.

Midway: Some of the games use regular shrinkwrap, which can be done the same way if you have shrinkwraper at home, not good. Try to get Cellophane seal to guarantee factory seal copy.

I can understand identifying factory sealed Saturn, NES, SNES, GB/GBC/GBA, and N64 games getting much more difficult as they all use shrinkwrap that anyone can get.

I've found this site getting more kids with flames and trolls, but those don't stay around very long, they tend to hang out in other BBS more often, nonetheless you'll still get far more good info and responses here than any other boards, as most game BBS tend to cater to kids, and don't get me started on certain VG BBS.

[Bronty-2]

Ah, but the beauty of nes/snes/n64/gb is the fact that the product was packaged in cardboard as opposed to a hard plastic jewel case. The cardboard's condition provides at least as many clues as the plastic!

[Bronty-2]

Majesco thread. Thanks digitalspace!! So it would seem all of these titles should exist in two seal varieties at least.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34837

[jan112850]

not to lead us away from snes sealing, but a question about dreamcast sealing of the game Street Fighter 3 Thrid Strike. I've gotten 2 of these now sealed with some rippled oversized thin wrapping and a paper capcom insert attached to the back of the game under the weird wrapping. The first one I returned because a barcode strip was inside the case but the one I have now has the strip attached to the outside wrapper. I've never seen a wrapper like this rippled one and never have seen a paper insert on the outside of the back of a jewel case under a wrapper. Is this one ok? or should it be sealed another way

Dreamcast experts awake
S

[mikeetler]

Hi Mike,

Right, I think it would make sense for Acclaim and/or LJN SNES to have the horizontal overlap since the late issue nes games by those companies had a similar seal method...

I wonder how long that was the case though. I bet there is probably a cutoff date. So since the late issue (past 1990 or so) nes acclaim/ljn were sealed that way, I would expect the early issue ljn/acclaim snes to be that way, but maybe not the late issue ljn/acclaim snes? Any input?

I'm fairly sure that Acclaim was manufaturing during the entire SNES life-span but also had some carts manufactured by Nintendo for them as well. I have a NFL QB Club '96 with a vertical seam with a "Made in Japan" box. Acclaim's manufacturing was in Mexico. Unfortunately, I have seen "Made in Mexico" boxes with the seam, so that's not a good indicator by itself.

I did come across another title with the horizontal overlap, which was Williams Arcade's Greatest Hits, which says "Manufatured by Midway" on the back.

As for Majesco's re-issues, they should all have "Distributed by Majesco Sales" on the back.

And now to make matters worse, I looked over a few games and found a fourth shrinkwrap variant with a seam on the top and bottom and a vertical overlap on the back. The game in question is Madden '98.

-Mike

[jan112850]

Been talking with bronty 2 a big collector and poster here and a few others.

If your snes game has no back vertical seal, look in the lower right corner of the back of the box. It will probably say "made in mexico" or majesco or both.

If your snes game has a vertical seal on the back, it will always say made in japan in the bottom right hand corner.

I think the first prints of games from Japan were sealed with H seals. I think reprints of games were sealed in Mexico, which is why the guy found the majesco card inside a different developer's game. The games sealed in mexico will never have the H seam (at least none of can find any).

So I purpose that if you have a made in Japan snes game it better have an H seal or its resealed. And if your game doesn't have an H seal and says made in Mexico its a REISSUE, not the first priniting but not resealed either.

The only problem is if someone reseals a reissued game from Mexico, you probalbly wouldn't know.

And who knows if occasionally a game was sealed differently in Japan.

But it gives a collector some guidelines that i've never seen printed anywhere. That Jap first print games should have H seals, and Mexican Reissues won't. Assigning a higher value to the first print Jap version is reasonalble since the non H sealed Mexican game is a reisssue. To the gamer it doesn't matter, they all play the same and they are all new. But to the collector it does make a difference. First of all the ist print is worth more and 2nd of all he doesn't need to call the reissue from mexico sealed differently a reseal. He probably wants to stay away from a Jap game without the H seal.

Well its a start.
S

[mickoz]

I guess the possibility that a "seal" was getting bad, and store resealed them to make them look better is a good possibility too. But if you find a sellers with 50 copies of a games all sealed... either he sealed them himself, but chance are that those copies are at less new is pretty high. Getting perfect copies of any games in high quantity in used state will probably be a too much hard task (I guess).

This topic is also interesting for the "new collector" of anything. Like for NES and SNES I think, there is place where the game were not coming sealing. We can barely know if it is new.

Genesis? Is there guideline?

I believe there were variation, we never know why but there probably has been in NES and SNES production for shure. Company might have changed their way to shrink for X reason.

But even the "H" seam, is it hard to reproduce?

I have received some games (NES) in discutable taste but they had the H seam and I doubt the seller would have resealed all those. At less for the trouble, etc. And I guess machine doing H seam are not common?

Sorry to go into NES even if we discuss SNES, but for all console that is a very interesting topics.

[badinsults]

There were many games that were "Made in Mexico" that were not reissues. My Bronkie the Brachiosaurus copy was, and as I recall, it did not have a vertical seam, but I opened that one nearly a year ago.

[Bronty-2]

Do you still have the box? Can you spare a minute to quickly check the back of it, just to be sure? Just as everything else seems to be consistent with the japan/mexico theory, it would be interesting to know for sure.

[Ed Oscuro]

This is why I keep the shrinkwrap from around my games; keeps the box nice later AND it's an example of how it was sealed originally. I would especially do that if I came across an older game with the shrink hanging around it. On or partially on older games can be suspect, ala that "sealed" Majora's Mask I bought at the forums a while back (not the seller's fault, game store done it, and in any case I got it for a great price).

[mikeetler]

If your snes game has a vertical seal on the back, it will always say made in japan in the bottom right hand corner.

As I posted right above you (at about the same time, so you wouldn't have seen it until after the fact), I have "Made in Mexico" games with vertical seams, so that doesn't hold up.

-Mike

[mickoz]

That is like CD-R media topic I was studying some time ago... (At CDfreaks.com -- ATIP info, etc.)

I guess the idea would be to get to know how many place they did package the game (seem like we can know this easily) and how many possibilities there is.

Do you guys think there were gazillion place where this were done? Or maybe a selected few factory? (less than 10?)

That could help us do research. (is there such research/guide/documentation for NES games too?)

[Iron Draggon]

Well now I'm finally starting to see one of the biggest reasons why sealed SNES games usually cost so much on ebay. We collectors sure are anal about them, aren't we? I bet we're not so retentive about many other things. LOL

This thread is very helpful, thanks for starting it, jan/steve whoever you are. I'll keep the Mexico information in mind now. That explains alot of things too.

I agree the H seams from Japan are the most desireable, especially if they still have the plastic hangers attached. It would be nearly impossible to fake one of these, so it's no wonder most collectors of sealed SNES games insist on it.

The pin covers were included with every SNES game up to 1994. That was the year they changed the cart design slightly and started phasing them out. So games from 1994 may or may not have them, and may come in both of the cart designs. All games prior to 1994 will use the original cart design and all games after 1994 will use the new cart design. So if you're into variations, you could have a field day with all the possible SNES variations from 1994.

Genesis games are alot harder to be sure of. They used hard plastic and soft plastic shrinkwrap, and alot of 3rd party companies used their own variants. They could be sealed any number of ways. Vertical rear seam, horizontal rear seam, no rear seam, seams on ends, seams on sides. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I imagine that's yet another reason why sealed SNES games are so much more popular with collectors than sealed Genesis games are now.

Anyhow, just so you all know, I never buy anything but sealed games, but only because I prefer them guaranteed 100% mint and complete. I open them all as soon as I get them, and I play them all as much as possible, as it was meant to be. So before some of you other sealed game collectors gasp in horror at the thought of me opening every sealed game I get, remember that by doing so I'm making your own sealed games worth that much more. The fewer sealed copies remaining, the more sealed copies are worth. So I'm doing you a service. I do the same thing with my Hot Wheels collection.

But rest assured that if I ever had to pay the real big bucks, just to get my hands on a sealed copy of a game, I probably wouldn't open it. That's why the prices of games like Chrono Trigger have me so upset. I don't have it, and I would love to own it, but I'm not gonna pay $600 for it, and even if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't be opening that one up just to play it! So all the BS about ridiculously overcharging for sealed copies of games like that is very upsetting to me. There's no shortage of them, they're not rare at all, and yet people have driven their prices into the stratosphere and beyond, just because of their perceived notion that all Square games are worth a fortune.

Same thing with Mario games now. Oh, it's Mario! We'll start the bidding at $100, and all you fools will be dumb enough to fight each other for it too. Ditto for Zelda, and a number of others, like Metroid and Ninja Gaiden Trilogy.

It's just complete insanity now. I understand the laws of supply and demand, but that's just it, there's plenty of supply to meet the demand, as shown by the fact that all of these "rare" and prohibitively expensive games are always available on ebay. The only shortage seems to be with the common sense of bidders. And of course no seller is gonna refuse to accept any obscenely high bids, if they think that they can actually collect that much money on the sale.

So I'm just waiting for it. The saturation point where everyone realizes that their bids have completely lost touch with reality, and they simply refuse to pay extortion fees for such common games, no matter how popular they are. Either that or the point where Nintendo finally wakes up and realizes that they could easily beat Sony & Microsoft simply by reissuing all of their hottest SNES titles and convincing Square to renew their license and do the same. Some sellers of sealed SNES games are making a killing on ebay, and they're keeping almost all of the money they make off their scalpings too.

[mickoz]

Doing money is ok, those people sometime provide rare title to other, etc.

I would say doing both is a part of the "collectors" often. We like to buy, sell, trade, get everything. ;-)

I just want to know who will collect all variation, etc. (made in mexico versus made in japan = 2 different variation for sure). There is so much unexplored stuff in all market. An endless task... ;-) Unless you limit the scope of your collection!

[Ed Oscuro]

Hm. Even having ONE factory might cause some discrepancy in the sealing process for games made and sealed concurrently.

I think one of the problems we're having is that we expect factories to do things the way we want them to, instead of doing things the way that best serves them. Am I saying that the plant in Mexico puts quantity over quality? No - we ARE talking about seals, after all!

So let's think of it this way.

At the very same time you have two shrinking machines running at once. One's pretty new, bit small but it works fine and puts the h-seal on it.

The other one is, well, when they tour the plant for new employees they stop and point to the machine and say, "You ever heard of how the Russians keep Lenin in that museum? THIS is the machine they used to put the shrinkwrap on him!"

Or better yet - you have a bank of six newer, but small, machines running at once, but one breaks down and the manager decides not to force the other machines to catch the slack (maybe turf issues? Who knows? Who cares?) and so they bring out another machine.

Or perhaps a machine was visited by Bob the "Fixer." Well, that wouldn't allow for a total change of how the seal was applied, but if you get the idea that factories are on all the time, and that sometimes things are done "the old fashioned way" when machines break down, one realizes that nothing can be taken for granted.

The sooner one realizes this, the happier they will be. On one hand you have factory workers who don't care how the seal goes on (as long as the Official Nintendo SoQ is printed right-side-up), and on the other you have game store employees who are being instructed to mislead customers as to the age of a game, and finally you have unscrupulous - or perhaps unaware - folks who're trying to sell a "sealed" game.

Looks like a mad game to be playing.

[mickoz]

Yeah, indeed I guess none of us really expect them to have only one machine or what. We just sometime hope. The answer to all our perfectionnist collector question won't be easy to get.

Some of them might require years of research, and the luck to talk of one employee of those factory, etc.

But see, if we know the amount of factory, their location, etc. We are already going forward.

Then to know that kind of information, I do not know personally where to start, beside maybe ask nintendo to give me this information. But the people there might not even know what happened 10-15 years ago.

Maybe there is some blog outta there with some nostalgic employee that is talking about those stories and it is all waiting to be heard of. ;-) But also even if company was doing that right now (like sony's hologram) that still won't help us, that will help our future children who will collect, or the "new generation" collectors. After all of this, we will find out we wasted our time collecting more than playing and that is just sad. I do that. ;-|

[Ed Oscuro]

After all of this, we will find out we wasted our time collecting more than playing and that is just sad. I do that. ;-|
Yes, that's a good way of putting it!

[SoulBlazer]

This whole discussion is a reminder to me that it's crazy to collect sealed games. Just don't understand it. :D

[mickoz]

Yeah, it is a sickness, I should resell what I have before it get further... :D

I should not have said that, I will get PM of people with the disease wanting my stuff. ;-) Not that I get anything that interesting anyway...

[jan112850]

I still think we are very close. Its the first time I've ever read or heard of this stuff even close to being solved for snes. This is much further than any other group has ever gone defining snes sealing and the main thing it does is re define a sealed snes game without an H seal from Mexico.

One change or addition to the theory brought up by another poster is correct. YOU CAN HAVE AN H SEAL WITH A MEXICAN GAME and some games were probalbly first printed in Mexico which means they may not have an H seal and still be first prints or they may not have an H seal and be a first print (if the game was never sealed in Japan).

Here is the summary of what I can deduce so far, couple changes. Stay with me here.

if game is from Japan and has H seal its factory sealed

If game is from Japan and does not have H seal its suspect (resealed?)
A game from Japan with an H seal is a first print

If game is from Mexico,
1. It most likely is a reissue or 2nd print and probably does not have an H seal. Its still factory but maybe worth less than the first print

2. Some Mexican games do have H seals depending on the factory and machine. It still dosn't mean they are necessarily first prints if from mexico, it just means the Mexican plant used the H seal

3. If a game is from Mexico and does not have an H seal, that is probably not a resealed game, its factory but prob a reissue

4. A game can be a first print from Mexico and sealed without an H seal

[portnoyd]

This SNES sealed thread is above my brain capacity for the time being, and anyway you guys got it covered well, but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in regarding Genesis sealed games...

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31988&highlight=genesis+sealed

dave

[portnoyd]

You posted as brinn1 on zSNES? That's an amazing coincidence, btw. Or not?

dave

[mickoz]

While I have respect for any collector, you should also be precautious when saying "it worth less".

It is too easy to say.

If I am someone who hunt all variation (1st print, 2nd print, etc.)

And I really dig a 2nd print as I have the 1st print... I might be wanting it badly. If a 2nd print was not selling much or is rarer (I dunno I am pretty "hypothetical" here - If I can say this in english).

We always want thought to put a value on stuff, but saying "then it worth less", that is just good for you to put a price on stuff or I dunno, but then, I think what is nice is collecting withouth thinking there is a price/value ;-)

On other hand I like you doing a little brainstorming of all the possibilities. That is making us going forward.

Do the game were only made in Japan, Mexico? Were they sealed only in Japan, Mexico? Etc.

I wonder also is other company than nintendo (konami, capcom, etc.) -- were they using the same service as nintendo, do nintendo provided instruction about how to seal the games? (there must be a reason they all had a H seam)

[jan112850]

to Mickoz,
I didn't say was worth less, I said a 2nd print or non H sealed game from Mexico "may be worth less". Many collectors will not bother collecting a first and 2nd print or every seal variation, some will. If you are looking hard for a 2nd print and find one, That game without an H seal sealed in Mexico may be worth more to you. I've done that for ps1, I collect every sealed variation of every game, not to mention longbox and jewel case for the same game when they exist (excluding gh), so I understand where you are comming from.

To Portnoyd, yes I posted under a different name in znes. Went there first and there was no interest, was refered to this forum. I think the intellectual level here, the willingness to struggle with some ideas, is vastly better than the other forum, a bunch of gamers only, not much interesting in collecting.

People seem to work together better here for a common effort. Glad for the recomendation, this has been my best message board experience yet.

But Dave what does this mean"That's an amazing coincidence, btw. Or not?"
Kinda lost me on that one.

[mickoz]

Steve, well the reason people have gone nuts (here and on the zsnes message board) is simple.

People go nuts too fast when they don't understand or it is something different.

You can get multiple reaction. You say to someone you collect brand new games. They might find it special or they might firstly find it stupid.

Secundo, even if they find it special, you bring up a sensitive topic like this one, then you reply 2-3 times and then people say: "Are you crazy, that is only a seal, blah" (similar comments was done in ZSNES about it). They get irritated too fast and that is a common behavior of the mass.

I am a perfectionnist in a lot of thing I do (general lifestyle I guess) -- I like to go deep, do my stuff with passion, go further than limit, etc.. I also behave different or am more open minded (or at less beside hide it I speak it.) and then some people don't understand or get irritated too fast. The impulsive. They are the kind of people that irritate me. They get mad too fast, they don't try to see further than the first impression, etc. It is sad but the pragmatic way to deal with them is maybe just let them be and not even react to them (waste of time), but our ideal self make us go "let's teach them or explain myself" and that sometime just create more problem in their head as they think you push the envelop, even for an innofensive and friendly (and quite interesting) topic as this. ;-)

It is "somehow" funny to see how people can get mad so fast.

Also you are direct. It is like when I said, we should not said "worth", I already know you would come up with a brilliant answer like you already know if you "need a particular variation" you are gonna give more. We are direct and we do not take other people's direct comment as an attack. But some people, like when you told them stuff in the ZSNES board, beside take it intelligently and just appreciate your writting, they perceive this as an attack! Being how you are, you probably already know this or have analyzed similarly in the past. ;-)

[mickoz]

Also, there is probably stuff that never did came brand new sealed. I dunno what is your "aim" in your collecting, the first time I talked to you was about the psx collecting not long ago. But I guess sometime, if something get really rare, you could accept a "complete" copy. It depends of the console.

If you were hunting atari 2600 new collection for example, I guess getting all that, factory seal, would be really hard if even possible. ;-)

[Griking]

Why do they have to put us thru this? Why not protect their games against fraud? Why not have a simple barcode seal from the factory like ps2, ps1, xbox etc.

Because I doubt that they can care less about collecters and the resale value of their old games.

[badinsults]

Well, as a response to the comments made on the Zsnes board, I have this to say.


I am the moderator on the zsnes board who is basically in charge of all moderation, so I don't go about blasting someone right away unless I deem it necessary. The fact is, that many people tried to answer the question the best we could. I even consulted with some people on #vbender to try and get a better answer. The fact is, the zsnes board is an emulation board, and there are not many game collectors who frequent there, let alone sealed game collectors. However, when we couldn't answer the question the way he wanted it to, he began to harrass people and say things like this:


Well Collectors ALWAYS say the back must have the vertical line.
But I want to get past what "they" always say. Are they right? Where did they get their information? From other collectors who thought the same thing? My point is what factual information do they have to support that opinion. I personally think they are wrong. Do they know how many factories seal the games, where they are sealed and if there is only one kind of sealing machine? Do they know how many companies outsource the games to be packaged and sealed? 3 emails to Nintendo and THEY DON'T KNOW! So where do these "experts" get their information. I'd love for someone to get some kind of factual support for how games are sealed from a developer of the software or the distributor or whoever, but someone who really knows. I can't believe Nintendo can't even refer me to someone who can help. They act like they have no control over their products and if that is true, WHO KNOWS WHAT IS HAPPENING OUT THERE? It would be a shame if some of these alternatively sealed games were factory but collectors automatically lablel them fakes. I've yet to have any collector give me infomation which supports one opinion or the other. I'M WONDERING IF ANYONE REALLY KNOWS? Maybe one of you really smart creative guys/gals could figure out a way we could put the question to rest since people are spending up to $1000 for certain SNES sealed games and the same game sealed a different way is labeled as garbage. FACTS GUYS, WE NEED FACTS.

I'm sorry, but if people cannot answer your question to your satisfaction, you should accept it and carry on. I do not like people who go on obsessive rants on my board. It is not how we operate. I mean, why should we be the ones that need to find the answer, when quite frankly we don't care. Quit being so pushy.




BTW, as for the Bronkie game, it was made in Mexico.

[mickoz]

Evan, well I think is post is not that bad.

Of course personally, I think it is normal Nintendo cannot answer that fast. At less their normal customer support, that is old information and people working there are not all expert of all the history of nintendo. There is maybe way to find out for them (internally) but that will cost a lot and they might not bother much (at less most of them).

But without going on a debate (you can always msg me on IRC but I think we both understand each other) -- I think there is nothing wrong to ask. He (from my viewpoint) was just asking for fact and was just requestion other "expert" view. And that is also my view, and more we search, we have fact that some brand new game indeed doesn't have the vertical seam. When someone buy a box of hundred of games and they are all like this, it is a good indicator. That being "factory sealed" from Nintendo or a 3rd party is maybe another question thought! ;-)

And apply law to anything... a society, a board, etc. Is good to control a mass, but there is always exception, and it is not because one or two person get irratated that we have to close it. Maybe it is easier management for you, but I do not think it is right or wrong, but you are moderator, you have the last word and somehow the conversation being here beside the ZSNES msg board is maybe better, I do not really follow the ZSNES msg board much (nor any board even this one), however I think it was not offending nobody, that is why I said some people did get irritated by this, etc. I mean, if they do not like the topic, beside complain, why just they not read that topic? anyway... life is life ;-)

[jan112850]

Dearest Evan,
I realize your need to defend your site, afterall you are moderator, but you have to admit we accomplished alot more over here, in terms of PROBLEM SOLVING. Some people collect and some don't, I know that. But we have had a great give and take discussion which have led to some ground breaking new information, in my opinion, possiblly the beginnings of guidelines useful for collectors, buyers and sellers, who want to try to understand what they are selling or buying.

As far as being pushy, that was not even a problem here at Digital Press, it was a discussion. After all it was Znes who recomended that I come here and I thank you for the suggestion. I don't think I was pushy there either, I merely tried to get people to try to appreciate the problem and the topic. That sure wasn't a problem here and again I thank you for the suggestion to purpose the topic here.

I think you summed up your position the best when you said "It is not how we operate. I mean, why should we be the ones that need to find the answer, when quite frankly we don't care". You are right, Zsnes did not care nor do they have to care. But, Evan, this ain't Zsnes, its DigitalPress.

Other than the above Evan, I will say nothing further concerning your personal attacks on me, and following me here to do it. You may do so if you wish. But I will not respond in any way to your negative outspoken feelings about me. Might I suggest you stay on topic and use your "moderator" skills to rise above the need for personal stuff. I would only suggest you "loosen up".

I think Mickoz said it best "It is sad but the pragmatic way to deal with them is maybe just let them be and not even react to them (waste of time), but our ideal self make us go "let's teach them or explain myself" and that sometime just create more problem in their head as they think you push the envelop, even for an innofensive and friendly (and quite interesting) topic as this. ;-)

It is "somehow" funny to see how people can get mad so fast. "

Yep Mickoz, should have listened to you
S

[Iron Draggon]

If you want to be insane like skiier_addict and buffy-G, go for it.. but be ready when you can't verify 60% of your collection like you can with SNES and NES.

OMG, skiier_addict, my arch nemesis on ebay! God how I DETEST whoever it is! That asshole gets on my nerves to no end! He/she/it is almost always the very first bidder on every single sealed SNES auction ever posted on ebay! They intentionally place the opening bid on ALL the BIN offers of interest, just so NO ONE will ever get to do a BIN on them! And then they snipe the SHIT out of them at the last minute, so the only way you're ever gonna get a decent sealed SNES game is to pay at least TWICE whatever the BIN on it was if it had one, and THREE TIMES what you would've had to pay without the EVIL skiier_addict there to jack up the price beyond all realms of sanity!

I honestly think that he/she/it is EMPLOYED by ebay to make sure that ALL the sealed SNES auctions go for ridiculously high prices! This one individual alone is almost completely responsible for the entire sealed SNES situation! I wish to God we could find a way to get them banned from ebay forever! They almost never actually WIN any SNES games, but they make damn sure that YOU are gonna pay out the ASS if you ever wanna win one! He/she/it has cost me more extra money for what I wanted than I even wanna count! Be WARNED, if you see skiier_addict bidding on an item, and you WILL see them bidding all over the sealed SNES auctions, you WILL pay or you WILL LOSE! If he/he/it isn't some kind of SHILL bidder, they must be FILTHY RICH!

He/she/it bids on sealed NES auctions too, so BEWARE! They seem to prefer the NES, becuase most of what they actually end up winning is for the NES, but I GUARANTEE they will almost always be the first name that you see on a sealed SNES auction! If they don't show up, rest assured, they WILL show up! And don't think that you're safe from their attacks because you KNOW they already won whatever it is you're bidding on, they will still fight you for whatever it is, and they will make you FIGHT for it! Always, always, always NUKE whatever it is you want to DEATH at the very last second, because that's exactly what the EVIL skiier_addict is gonna do to you! I've watched my humble little bargains that I've sat on top of for a whole week with no one else at all interested in them go from CHEAP to EXPENSIVE in the last few seconds of the auction more than I care to count, and ALWAYS just because of that DAMN EVIL skiier_addict! Just me and them, all the time!

Sorry for the rant, but that sorry bastard just makes my blood BOIL! If I could ever figure out a way to stick that piece of shit with the bill for my winnings while still getting them delivered to my house, I would do it in a heartbeat! You have no idea how many times I've wanted to send them the bill for what they FORCED me to pay extra for what I wanted! It's NUTS! My only consolation is knowing that every single time that I have to face off against them again, I WILL BE VICTORIOUS! Sometimes I win stuff just to spite them! And if I could afford to take the risk of winning every item that I bid on like they obviously can, I'd bid them up on every single thing they bid on, just like they do to me! I know their patterns well enough by now to know exactly how much to bid against them and leave them stuck with it, but the problem is the little weasel will surprise you sometimes! You'll be wondering where the hell they are, and they never show up! You wait for the snipe, and it never comes! And you KNOW that they're watching you!

It's the damnedest thing I've ever seen. How one person can have such an endless supply of cash for bidding on the exact same type of items over and over again without being an employee of ebay is simply beyond me. I just keep waiting and waiting for someone to PROVE that he/she/it is some kind of shill bidder, planted by ebay themselves or somebody else with some kind of interest in sabotaging every single sealed SNES auction on ebay that isn't one of the common throwaway titles like F-Zero, but that damned EVIL skiier_addict is never NARU'ed and never stops bidding! I'm not even sure that he/she/it is even human! They're on there 24/7/365, and they are a PEST! It's like you can only win sealed SNES games if he/she/it lets you win!

[Iron Draggon]

WHOOPS, double post, see how angry I am? :angry:

[mickoz]

OMFG you got me laughing there. Actually I have not monitored ebay much, excep in 2000, a little in between and lately.

And always there is always 1 or 2 people that seem to go nuts on price for some item.

There is also that guy for example on the SNES scene, that buy games for 300$ then resell it some hour later or 250$ (probably selling another copies), he did claim he did buy for his friend, and he sold his own copies, but that is sick, why is not he selling directly to his friend. It somehow look like they try to inflate the price!

[charitycasegreg]

Well, as a response to the comments made on the Zsnes board, I have this to say.


I am the moderator on the zsnes board who is basically in charge of all moderation, so I don't go about blasting someone right away unless I deem it necessary. The fact is, that many people tried to answer the question the best we could. I even consulted with some people on #vbender to try and get a better answer. The fact is, the zsnes board is an emulation board, and there are not many game collectors who frequent there, let alone sealed game collectors. However, when we couldn't answer the question the way he wanted it to, he began to harrass people and say things like this:


Well Collectors ALWAYS say the back must have the vertical line.
But I want to get past what "they" always say. Are they right? Where did they get their information? From other collectors who thought the same thing? My point is what factual information do they have to support that opinion. I personally think they are wrong. Do they know how many factories seal the games, where they are sealed and if there is only one kind of sealing machine? Do they know how many companies outsource the games to be packaged and sealed? 3 emails to Nintendo and THEY DON'T KNOW! So where do these "experts" get their information. I'd love for someone to get some kind of factual support for how games are sealed from a developer of the software or the distributor or whoever, but someone who really knows. I can't believe Nintendo can't even refer me to someone who can help. They act like they have no control over their products and if that is true, WHO KNOWS WHAT IS HAPPENING OUT THERE? It would be a shame if some of these alternatively sealed games were factory but collectors automatically lablel them fakes. I've yet to have any collector give me infomation which supports one opinion or the other. I'M WONDERING IF ANYONE REALLY KNOWS? Maybe one of you really smart creative guys/gals could figure out a way we could put the question to rest since people are spending up to $1000 for certain SNES sealed games and the same game sealed a different way is labeled as garbage. FACTS GUYS, WE NEED FACTS.

I'm sorry, but if people cannot answer your question to your satisfaction, you should accept it and carry on. I do not like people who go on obsessive rants on my board. It is not how we operate. I mean, why should we be the ones that need to find the answer, when quite frankly we don't care. Quit being so pushy.




BTW, as for the Bronkie game, it was made in Mexico.

How is that being pushy? I sw the stuf in the snes forum thing. He was said to be a prick or something, i dont see how he was. The others there made him mad cause they were talking shit.

[badinsults]

Let's drop the issue, kids.

[Bronty-2]

Iron Draggon,

Aren't we being a bit dramatic about skiier_addict? ;) The fact is, he doesn't bid nearly as often or as much as he used to. He really hasn't been much of factor lately. Not like back in the day when he paid that 910 or whatever for that RESEALED Secret of Mana auction :eek 2:

[Ed Oscuro]

Not like back in the day when he paid that 910 or whatever for that RESEALED Secret of Mana auction :eek 2:
That makes him a WINNAR.

More money trickling into the hobby (hopefully).

[wcmiker]

Speaking from experience, I believe that certain releases of these SNES games have been sealed without the H-seal.

TMNT 4: Turtles in Time - (Got it from eBay, was a Majesco re-release)
Indiana Jones - (Got it from an online retailer where I have bought plenty of other sealed SNES games that did have the H-seal)
Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures (Got 3 from eBay member "closeout_clearance_center")

PS - I know there are other sealed SNES games without the H-seal but these are the only ones I can speak of from experience.

[Iron Draggon]

Iron Draggon,

Aren't we being a bit dramatic about skiier_addict? ;) The fact is, he doesn't bid nearly as often or as much as he used to. He really hasn't been much of factor lately. Not like back in the day when he paid that 910 or whatever for that RESEALED Secret of Mana auction :eek 2:

But he's still there. And he's still doing it too. I still see him bidding on all the sealed SNES auctions all the time. I hope he did get burned for $900 on one though. Serves his stupid ass right. He popped up on ebay about the same time that I did, so I had the misfortune of dozens of ugly run-ins with him, before I finally found DP. He's the reason why I had to learn how to snipe, instead of simply placing a proxy bid real early and just forgetting about it. I'd come back to see what my final cost was, and have a coronary. And always there would be skiier_addict, laughing about how much I had to overpay, thanks to him and his antics. That's how he became my ebay arch nemesis.

I keep hoping that he'll finally get a sealed copy of every single SNES game ever made, just so he'll finally go the hell away. He's the reason why I try to avoid bidding on sealed SNES auctions anymore, because I'm just so sick and tired of him showing up to jack up almost every sealed SNES game I bid on. He seems to have finally learned that it's pointless for him to try and outbid me, so he doesn't seem to bother me as much as he used to, but he still bothers me. It's like he sees me place a bid and he raises it on purpose, just because he knows that it will only cost me more, and I will still win the item.

He tried to test me once on Push-Over. He bid alot more than he usually does trying to outbid me, but it still didn't work for him. Then somebody else came along and really tried to test me by driving it up even higher than that, but it backfired on them too. I still had the last laugh on them both though. I nuked it alot higher than I usually do, but rather than get stuck having to pay way more than I was really willing to pay for that particular game, I just emailed the seller and told them that I made a mistake and placed a much higher bid on it than I intended to. Ordinarily I would never do such a thing, but in this case I really didn't have the obscene amount of money that those two goons had tried to cost me, so I told the seller the situation and that was the end of it. I assume that the other guy got stuck with it, or maybe he just passed it on down to dumbass skiier_addict, but hopefully he went for the second chance offer and kept it out of the hands of that evil SOB.

I was afraid that I would end up getting my first neg over that auction gone haywire, but luckily the seller never even wrote me back to say a word to me about it. The subject was simply dropped, and my perfect record is still clean. I guess it helped that I emailed them about my problem immediately after the auction ended. I really hated having to do it, because I really did want that game, but I wasn't gonna take my whole collection to the pawn shop just to get it. And certainly not just because of skiier_addict and some other fool with more money than common sense. Usually my strategy works very well for me, but that damn skiier_addict really has a knack for messing it up. I'd have way more SNES games than I do by now, if it wasn't for him making almost every single one that I have to get from ebay cost me alot more than it should, because of his constant overbidding on the damn things.

I imagine that he probably thinks that I'm constantly overbidding too, just to outbid him, since I always end up winning whatever it is he's fighting me for, but that's beside the point. I don't bid on everything just to be bidding on it like he does. I only bid on what I actually want. That's what pisses me off about him the most. I don't think that he really actually wants half of the stuff that he bids on. He just places the opening bids just to be bidding on something, and of course to get rid of those pesky BIN's that might save somebody who actually wants it some money on it. He truly is an addict. I firmly believe that. But that's about the only thing that's right about him. Everything else is just completely wrong. I don't know who he is, or where he is, but if I ever find out, I am gonna make his life a living hell somehow.

Don't get me wrong, nothing serious, just the usual signing up his email for all the spam that I can find to sign him up for, nice innocent stuff like that. He's not worth getting myself into any trouble over, I just want him to be as annoyed as I am. I want him to be so annoyed that he never rears his ugly overbidding head on ebay again. At least not in the sealed SNES auctions. He can have the NES, for all I care, but he should stick to it. Stay the hell away from what I'm trying to get. He gets in my way far too much, and he's cost me far more money than any one individual should ever cost another. I shudder to think what would happen if I was ever foolish enough to try and obtain myself a sealed Chrono Trigger from ebay. I've already had to pay for the equivalent of a case of the damned things, thanks to him and his shit.

So it's a very bitter vendetta indeed. But don't worry, I'm over it, I just had to vent. That happens to me every single time I see his handle anymore. It doesn't matter where. I even get pissed when I see his name on something that I'm not even interested in bidding on, just because he's there. I'm really not that type of person, but he makes me that way. I'm sure that you all have an ebay arch nemesis of your own. Everybody does, sooner or later. So skiier_addict is mine. I own him. He is my bitch. I snipe every game that I can get from him, if I really want it, just because I don't want him to have it. It's a little game that we play with each other. He raises all my bids for me, and I take all his precious sealed SNES games away for him. That way he doesn't have to ever worry about being tempted to open them up and actually play them, because I win them and open them up and actually play them for him.

It's a perfect system. Those lucky games are finally freed from their plastic prisons after all these years, rather than gathering dust at his house, still forever trapped by a wall of cellophane that they will never escape from. That's my reward for how much it cost me to save them from him, seeing how happy they are to take their place among all my other games, and actually get to be inserted into a system and entertain me for a few hours. It's like Toy Story. I'm the good kid, and he's the bad kid. No game wants to end up at his house, because my house is where all the happy games go. Games only get sent to his house to suffocate in plastic wrap for all eternity. He's not like the rest of you collectors, who prefer to keep all their games sealed, but still love them as though they were being played. I just know that he isn't like that. They mean nothing to him but trophies. Big dollar signs that he thinks he'll be using to amass himself an even bigger fortune someday. I hope it all blows up in his face. I really do. He deserves it. LOL

[Bronty-2]

As I posted right above you (at about the same time, so you wouldn't have seen it until after the fact), I have "Made in Mexico" games with vertical seams, so that doesn't hold up.

-Mike

Hi Mike,

am I right in thinking these "made in mexico" H-seam games you have are the Raya Systems games only?

Please click on this link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8129976034 . It completely backs up what you are saying, as one can clearly see that this game is 'made in mexico' and yet has the h-seam. 'raya' sounding like a mexican name, it seems that the four or so raya games might have been exceptions, and actually made in mexico instead of japan. So this would be a separate issue from the majesco issue.

So it would seem that if the bottom right says made in japan (or made in mexico in the case of the raya systems games) the game should have the h-seam, and if it says "printed in usa/assembled in mexico" (i.e the majesco markings) it will have the top and bottom strips. Has anyone seen anything to the contrary? (apart from anomalies like robocop vs terminator and earthbound, and the acclaim and or ljn horizontal overlap games)

[mickoz]

You should try to contact skiier addict and ask him about his activities, might get worse, might get better, what you have to lose anyway? ;-)

Maybe you will save a lot of buck that way! By asking him what he wants and what you want.

But if you open the games, why overpay for them... hehe. ;-)

---

Was earthbound ever sealed? I dont remember much about it in store... except I should have bought 10 copies :D Instead I was playing it with my copier or smth :\ At less I was playing. :D

[DasCrewShtool]

I have now been inspired to factory seal my nuts, I hope my wife recognizes the h seam.

[JJNova]

I have now been inspired to factory seal my nuts, I hope my wife recognizes the h seam.

Ummm....Don't they need to breathe?



Anyhoo. How are things going with the Japanese translation/Nintendo of Japan thing going? That's probably the biggest peice of information anyone coul dhave given you (and it was from me :) ) and I haven't heard anything about it.


And I thought you were rude and arrogant and ignorant and heterosexually impaired on zSNES also....but of course I mentioned that in the second post or whatever to this topic. :P

[mikeetler]

As I posted right above you (at about the same time, so you wouldn't have seen it until after the fact), I have "Made in Mexico" games with vertical seams, so that doesn't hold up.

-Mike

Hi Mike,

am I right in thinking these "made in mexico" H-seam games you have are the Raya Systems games only?

No, actually it was a copy of Zoop I was looking at.

-Mike

[NintendoMan]

There were many games that were "Made in Mexico" that were not reissues. My Bronkie the Brachiosaurus copy was, and as I recall, it did not have a vertical seam, but I opened that one nearly a year ago.

This maybe a little off topic here, but I have purchased a few games that were "Made in Mexico". They were crap! Everything from the box to the manual to the game. I mean the picture quality of my Battletoad: Battlemaniacs game is only subpar to the original release.