New PStwo not hard drive compatible

[YoshiM]

Here (http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/articles/index.php?article_id=6438)

So Sony doesn't want any more hard drive customers? Granted it is a "hard core" type add on but Sony is projecting to stretch the life of the PS2 beyond 2005 (unless things have changed and I'm not aware of it). IF the PStwo is going to replace the current model, would that be alienating any "future hard core" gamers that may not have a PS2 now and decide to buy the slimmer model? It'd be like Microsoft releasing new controllers for future Xbox bundles that don't accept memory cards stating "there are X number of Xbox owners right now and those who use the memory cards are 'hard core' gamers that port their save games from house to house."

[tritium]

From what I understand, Microsoft and Sony are going to go on a non-hard drive approach for the next generation.

-Tritium

[Kamino]

i KNEW this was coming. 2nd generation hardware ALWAYS has MAJOR drawbacks. whether it's the top loading NES, genesis models 2 and/or 3, 2-port 5200, snes model 2, or the model 2 SMS.....
THEY ALWAYS SUCK!!!!!!

[pixelsnpolygons]

Seems fairly odd - I wonder if some sort of solution will be released at some point? Maybe they'll make an external drive for this thing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, silly Sony. I would've bought one of the new units if it had the HDD...the thing is that we'll see (or at least, we WERE going to see) an increasing number of HDD games to make up for the console's shortfalls in relation to the other consoles.

I fail to see how this decision does anything but hasten the death of the console. In 2007 the PS2 will be regarded as a completely obsolete, hard to program machine without universal HDD support...that's appealing how?

[kevincure]

Does anyone really care that the PStwo loses the HD? FFXI is really the only game that uses the HDD extensively (I know a few others like RE Outbreak do as well, but I don't think it's required). No big titles planned for the future used the HD.

More importantly, Sony has to be seeing what's happened with the XB HD. Everyone I know who uses it extensively uses it to pirate games.

If I were Sony, I'd put a HD of < 1 gig in the PS3, and do whatever I could to ensure you couldn't mod & swap. You only need a few hundred megs to store every save game you could want plus secure data for online games.

[EnemyZero]

Yeah, whats there reasoning...its MADNESS...i can understand they wanna make a cheaper, smaller, more convenient system...and in the end...where left saying things like " WTF...WHY WONT THIS STUPID GAME WORK..ALL THE OTHER CRAPPY ONES WORK...BUT NOT THIS...or....meh..it only dropped like 8 inches..of course it will still work..::click...click:: wtf? TURN ON U PIECE OF CRAP!"...anyways theres always some games that won't work...or some catch or fault on there "improved" hardware....sony should of learned from PSone...tsk tsk...

[Flack]

I don't think the goal of 2nd generation hardware is to remain 100% compatible or cater to "hard core" owners. "Hard core" owners already have a PS2. 2nd generation hardware is a way for a company to generate sales, and to improve/change their hardware design. Technology has changed since 98/99, when the original design was being finalized. The goal is to make a cheaper PS2 that works with most of the popular games out there. At least half of the people I work with own PS2's and none of them even knew there was a HD available for it.

I haven't read much about the PS3/Xbox2, but if I were Sony and/or Microsoft I would take a real close look at what hard drives gave them as opposed to what they would lose if they lost them. I mean, PS2, the good? A couple of games that use it. The bad? HD Loader, which has now made piracy completely feasable for even the most clueless consumer. Xbox hard drive? The good, got rid of memory cards, allowed people to create their own soundtracks to games. The bad? Take a look at the thriving emulator, piracy, and home dev Xbox scenes.

Then look at Gamecube. Proprietary media, and no hard drive. And guess what else? No cracked copy protection. I would not be surprised to see at least some of the GCN's design to be incorporated into the other next gen consoles. The fact that Nintendo has been able to thwart pirates and Microsoft and Sony couldn't will (I'm guessing) cause them to really focus on that point next time around.

[Lady Jaye]

I agree with Kevincure on this. The non-compatibility of the HDD should affect essentially eventual FFXI players.

[Ed Oscuro]

If I were Sony, I'd put a HD of < 1 gig in the PS3, and do whatever I could to ensure you couldn't mod & swap. You only need a few hundred megs to store every save game you could want plus secure data for online games.
Well, "swap" should still be a feature - as in Swap File. You need that hard drive space to masquerade as "extra RAM." That's my major concern - cutting the feature is going to severely limit the appeal of the system to developers *and* gamers who would love to have the HDD capability in cutting down load times.

So I'd agree - limit the size of the HDD severely, and thus you avoid the problems Flack mentioned to a good degree.

As for myself, I'm totally disgusted by this nonsense.

[rpepper9]

Does anyone really care that the PStwo loses the HD? FFXI is really the only game that uses the HDD extensively (I know a few others like RE Outbreak do as well, but I don't think it's required). No big titles planned for the future used the HD.

More importantly, Sony has to be seeing what's happened with the XB HD. Everyone I know who uses it extensively uses it to pirate games.

If I were Sony, I'd put a HD of < 1 gig in the PS3, and do whatever I could to ensure you couldn't mod & swap. You only need a few hundred megs to store every save game you could want plus secure data for online games.

It is pretty stupid to kill off the HD. Maybe only two or three games use it but it is a pretty cool piece of equiptment, and your closest competitor (xbox) has one so in keeping up with the joneses, you should do all you can to promote the hardware.

How do you expect game developers to make products that use the hardware if you cut of production of said hardware a little over half way through the systems lifespand. Add-ons have always been a hard sell, and when you go through all the trouble to make one available it seems like you would atleast give it some time before pulling the plug.

Whatever!?.

[SoulBlazer]

I hate to say "I told you so"......

But I knew all along that when Sony was going to release a re-design of the PS2, that the HD would be one of the things to go. :)

Mind you, this does'nt stop the chances of a third party company making a EXTERNAL HD that you could connect to the PStwo.

[rbudrick]

They should have just went with an external hard drive add-on using the firewire ports...or added USB 2 ports on them...ah well.

-Rob

[jonjandran]

I don't think the goal of 2nd generation hardware is to remain 100% compatible or cater to "hard core" owners. "Hard core" owners already have a PS2. 2nd generation hardware is a way for a company to generate sales, and to improve/change their hardware design. Technology has changed since 98/99, when the original design was being finalized. The goal is to make a cheaper PS2 that works with most of the popular games out there. At least half of the people I work with own PS2's and none of them even knew there was a HD available for it.

I haven't read much about the PS3/Xbox2, but if I were Sony and/or Microsoft I would take a real close look at what hard drives gave them as opposed to what they would lose if they lost them. I mean, PS2, the good? A couple of games that use it. The bad? HD Loader, which has now made piracy completely feasable for even the most clueless consumer. Xbox hard drive? The good, got rid of memory cards, allowed people to create their own soundtracks to games. The bad? Take a look at the thriving emulator, piracy, and home dev Xbox scenes.

Then look at Gamecube. Proprietary media, and no hard drive. And guess what else? No cracked copy protection. I would not be surprised to see at least some of the GCN's design to be incorporated into the other next gen consoles. The fact that Nintendo has been able to thwart pirates and Microsoft and Sony couldn't will (I'm guessing) cause them to really focus on that point next time around.

Then lok at Hardware and Software sales for all 3 systems and wonder if the Gamecube would be doing better with a hard-drive. :P

[Ed Oscuro]

Mind you, this does'nt stop the chances of a third party company making a EXTERNAL HD that you could connect to the PStwo.
Hopefully the PS2's USB2, then.

If a way to plug in an external HDD showed up, I'd snatch it up. I might still get a PSTwo - if that's the case.

[john_soper]

I remember people complaining because the PS2 wasn't 100% PS1 compatible but 99.9 something. It didn't affect sales, people didn't say "I'm not buying it
because it can't play AGH Paperboy"
FF diehards can easily pick up an original version

[tholly]

I don't think the goal of 2nd generation hardware is to remain 100% compatible or cater to "hard core" owners. "Hard core" owners already have a PS2. 2nd generation hardware is a way for a company to generate sales, and to improve/change their hardware design.


exactly what i was going to say

[Flack]

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/4/pstwo/pstwo_01.jpg

[tholly]

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/4/pstwo/pstwo_01.jpg


whats with the differences in colors on the top....its like those 2 panels can come out???

[kai123]

The PSTWO is a flip top like the PSOne is. No more tray.

[Ikari Warrior]

That's the flip top, it opens like a Gamecube or TurboDuo.

[YoshiM]

I don't think the goal of 2nd generation hardware is to remain 100% compatible or cater to "hard core" owners. "Hard core" owners already have a PS2. 2nd generation hardware is a way for a company to generate sales, and to improve/change their hardware design. Technology has changed since 98/99, when the original design was being finalized. The goal is to make a cheaper PS2 that works with most of the popular games out there. At least half of the people I work with own PS2's and none of them even knew there was a HD available for it.

I don't agree with your initial line of thinking on the goal of 2nd gen hardware.

Taking the PS2 hard drive out of the topic for a moment: why would Sony, or any company for that matter, bring out second generation hardware that quite possibly makes old games incompatible? Wouldn't that be cutting the library down a bit, especially since many early titles can still be had new? I can understand if it's a security issue not unlike what Sega did with the Sonic Genesis bundle-a lock out chip was installed to block unlicensed games (like Accolade titles if I'm not mistaken) from being able to be played, hence the "licensed by Sega..." message that pops up on the screen before the game starts.

Nah, the goal of 2nd gen hardware (or any "gen"...who's to say the hardware inside new machines HASN'T changed but the case is still the same) is to release the same popular game system, perhaps in new packaging to make it look "cool", at a reduced price to stay competitive.



I haven't read much about the PS3/Xbox2, but if I were Sony and/or Microsoft I would take a real close look at what hard drives gave them as opposed to what they would lose if they lost them. I mean, PS2, the good? A couple of games that use it. The bad? HD Loader, which has now made piracy completely feasable for even the most clueless consumer. Xbox hard drive? The good, got rid of memory cards, allowed people to create their own soundtracks to games. The bad? Take a look at the thriving emulator, piracy, and home dev Xbox scenes.

What's your definition of "thriving"?

To be honest, I don't think emulation and home *nix Xbox "scene" is nearly as big as we think it is. It's just talked about the loudest thanks to the media. Most people just want to shove a game they rented or bought into their machine to play. Modding/tricking your system into becoming a Linux box to run an emulator is probably not on the casual gamer's mind. As for the HD Loader on PS2: you even said that half the people you work with didn't even know the PS2 hard drive existed. Couple that with the fact its uses are at the moment limited to online play (which a majority of PS2 owners I'm sure don't do with their console) the HD ownership crowd is probably pretty small.

Honestly, I think the hard drive in a console is almost as good as sliced bread. I hate, nay, LOATHE the necessity of memory cards. I spoke of my distaste of them and the company that pushed them (starts with an "S" and ends in "ony") before many times so I won't rehash old times. I like the ability to quickly save to the drive. I like the ability to rip my CDs onto the drive and listen to Marilyn Manson's "Golden Age of Grotesque" as I barrel down the streets in Burnout 3, hearing every crash and tire squeal alongside the guitar riffs. If the PS3 doesn't have onboard storage people may be disappointed but I don't think it would deter them from buying because it's Playstation. Microsoft, on the other hand, would probably get some serious backlash if they don't have some sort of large storage on the next system.


Then look at Gamecube. Proprietary media, and no hard drive. And guess what else? No cracked copy protection. I would not be surprised to see at least some of the GCN's design to be incorporated into the other next gen consoles. The fact that Nintendo has been able to thwart pirates and Microsoft and Sony couldn't will (I'm guessing) cause them to really focus on that point next time around.

Nope, the Cube was "cracked" due to the PSO exploit. Games can be backed up to a PC and then "streamed" to the Cube. There are also emulators for it as well. From what I read it was a tough nut to crack but thanks to Sega hackers did it.

Piracy is going to be around no matter what. As long as there are people willing to poke around in their consoles and then have access to a large global community working on the same thing, piracy and hacking is not going to stop. If Sony and MS decide to not include a drive, I'm sure some person with lots 'o time on their hands will figure out how to hook up a drive to them.

[tholly]

The PSTWO is a flip top like the PSOne is. No more tray.

i figured that much....what about the other side though....it looks as though the left and right would flip up with that darker glossier black part being the center

[Jicsan]

http://home.comcast.net/~jstaggs09002398/scej24.jpg

[DigitalSpace]

Kinda sad to see the HDD going the way of an N64 accessory.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ YoshiM: The GC pirates crowd is *very* small, as virtually nobody seems to know about it (nobody seems to own a GC, either, which means most hackers are on the other systems anyhow). You need PSO, which is further going to limit things, and finally the BB adapter - which is the one piece of the puzzle I don't have.

I also believe that piracy, especially on the XBox, is very much running wild. I have real life friends who're talking about getting their boxen modded, that they know people who will do it, and on nearly every forum I've been at people have talked about it. GC piracy? Once I read a site's news announcing it had been made possible, and it died there.

[Algol]

Kinda strange to see the HDD going so fast, with so few games for it. Even the Jaguar CD had better support than the HDD.

[Wavelflack]

So they have removed ports, put in a cheap flip top lid, etc.etc. and still sell it for the same price?

What kind of reasoning is that for the consumer?

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, they added the network standard. So some would argue this represents a price cut (actually, somebody argued that to me already).

[SoulBlazer]

I'm sure a price cut will happen next year. One more holiday season at the current price and then a drop to $130, or maybe even $100.

[rpepper9]

http://home.comcast.net/~jstaggs09002398/scej24.jpg

All I can say is that if that has a flip or pop up lid.........Hello piracy (spelling?). Hasn't Sony learned that people can copy games and use the swap method with the top loading type of system. I give it 24 hours after release for someone to have came up with a swapping device that uses a spring and an original game to play boots. :D

[Flack]

I don't agree with your initial line of thinking on the goal of 2nd gen hardware. / Taking the PS2 hard drive out of the topic for a moment: why would Sony, or any company for that matter, bring out second generation hardware that quite possibly makes old games incompatible? Wouldn't that be cutting the library down a bit, especially since many early titles can still be had new? I can understand if it's a security issue not unlike what Sega did with the Sonic Genesis bundle-a lock out chip was installed to block unlicensed games (like Accolade titles if I'm not mistaken) from being able to be played, hence the "licensed by Sega..." message that pops up on the screen before the game starts. / Nah, the goal of 2nd gen hardware (or any "gen"...who's to say the hardware inside new machines HASN'T changed but the case is still the same) is to release the same popular game system, perhaps in new packaging to make it look "cool", at a reduced price to stay competitive.

Well of course the PStwo's case is changing, and so are the guts. The reason for cutting the hard drive out of the PStwo isn't because they hate us; it's because it's a way to decrease the size of the PStwo, decrease production costs, and only lose compatibility with one game. Simple, economical decision.


To be honest, I don't think emulation and home *nix Xbox "scene" is nearly as big as we think it is.

I'm sure it's big enough to piss them off enough to do something about it. Whether it's a proprietary format, size, or complete lack of a HD, it wouldn't surprise me next round to see incompatibility between PC parts (ie: hard drives) and consoles. Whether they were lazy or naive last time around, the result was the same; it's bitten them in the ass.


Nope, the Cube was "cracked" due to the PSO exploit. Games can be backed up to a PC and then "streamed" to the Cube. There are also emulators for it as well. From what I read it was a tough nut to crack but thanks to Sega hackers did it.

Know about it, tried it. Have you? Games are basically unplayable. Puzzle Bobble works because it's so small. Try playing anything with music or streaming video. Yikes. Most of the games I tried ran so slow or choppy that I lost interest. Despite the PSO exploit, if I were keeping score I'd have to say Nintendo 1, Hackers 0. It took me a couple of days to get the whole thing working, and I haven't done it in so long I'd probably have to look up the instructions to get it working again. Maybe technically the GC was cracked, but it's certainly not practical.


Piracy is going to be around no matter what. As long as there are people willing to poke around in their consoles and then have access to a large global community working on the same thing, piracy and hacking is not going to stop. If Sony and MS decide to not include a drive, I'm sure some person with lots 'o time on their hands will figure out how to hook up a drive to them.

I'm sure it will be too -- however, whatever MS and Sony can do to prevent it, they'll do. I'm surprised consoles haven't started coming in a one piece plastic case without screws just to keep people out of them.

[Nez]

I'm surprised consoles haven't started coming in a one piece plastic case without screws just to keep people out of them.

Thats what those damn speciall screws are for.

[The Manimal]

i KNEW this was coming. 2nd generation hardware ALWAYS has MAJOR drawbacks. whether it's the top loading NES, genesis models 2 and/or 3, 2-port 5200, snes model 2, or the model 2 SMS.....
THEY ALWAYS SUCK!!!!!!


what's the drawback with the genny 2? the rest i understand, though top loading nes would be better if it had been implemented differently...grr....