how long do you think arcade gaming will last ??

[racecar]

I went to the mall on saturday and sunday last week the arcades are empty i aws the only one there for over 2 hours(house of the deads3 beated5 times) just to waste time and lots of tokens !! also this is not the first time that i saw the arcades around the city empty one of the closed down a month ago and i see another one hanging by a thread ...

[Habeeb Hamusta]

Well. Malls and big stores really aren't full of gamers. And there aren't any good games at those kinds of arcades. I guess it all depends on where you're at.

[tholly]

while it is sad to see arcades shut down, it may be good for the home arcade owner.....it may let us get games a lot cheaper than we normally good because arcades are trying to sell out what they have after the shutdown

[downfall]

Arcade gaming will last as long as arcades stay ahead of their time.

Back when arcades were huge, they were the only place wherein you could actually have that experience. Home systems have since caught up to (and in some instances surpassed) arcade games, so people choose to stay at home and feel as if they're getting the better experience for their money.

Arcades (successful ones), will only continue to thrive as long as they can provide experiences that you cannot have at home. Sure, I can play Dance Dance Revolution at home, but nothing beats the feel of the arcade machine - flashing lights, loud music, a crowd of people etc. Same goes for games like Daytona USA - I can play it at home, but man if it isn't a blast to play against 4 other people on a set of linked, sit-down cabinets.

Most arcades however, can't seem to remain ahead of their time - the cost of the new machines (thousands per) is greater than the profits made - many people have already given up on arcades as a source of entertainment - what will a few new games benefit when nobody is coming anyway?

At least that's what I seem to think.

[Fuyukaze]

While I'm surprised by the number of arcades that exist in my area, a good majority of them have few if any games I want to play. Its normaly divided into 2 groups. Your kid friendly group, and your fighting fan group. The problem with both is that they neglect a third group. The shooter. I have searched high and low and there just isnt any places with good shooters. The kid friendly places such as Gatti town, chucky cheese, and such consider good shooters like 1942 and its kind to be to violent. The places that are in the local malls think if its not a fighter or DDR, its no good. There is more to arcades then just racing games and fighting games. Sadly, I think this has helped in the death of the arcade. That and charging 1$ for a few minute play certainly hasnt helped.

tholly wrote-

while it is sad to see arcades shut down, it may be good for the home arcade owner.....it may let us get games a lot cheaper than we normally good because arcades are trying to sell out what they have after the shutdown
I would think its bad for the home arcade owner as well because ones the arcades are gone, so are any new arcade games. Its all mame or import after that. Basicly its great initialy but once they sell out....

[Rogmeister]

My arcade also has few games I want to play...and few games overall. They could fit in probably close to twice as many machines as they have now. I also don't care that you only get 3 tokens per dollar now...the games are expensive enough already and now they're ripping us off in that area...then again, I haven't attended arcades regularly in years or else I guess I would have become accustomed to that by now.

[Vigilante]

Over the last year or two, two out of the three arcades arround me shut down. Both of them catered to the kid stuff with tokens and non-violent games. The third arcade seems to be doing ok, they rotate their games out pretty frequently. They have a good mix of old and new, racers, shooters, fighters, and classics. Pinball and air hockey as well.

[Aswald]

Not much longer, if they keep doing the same old thing they've been doing for years now.

[Flack]

I went to the mall on saturday and sunday last week the arcades are empty i aws the only one there for over 2 hours(house of the deads3 beated5 times) just to waste time and lots of tokens !! also this is not the first time that i saw the arcades around the city empty one of the closed down a month ago and i see another one hanging by a thread ...

I thought I had read a thread just like this before. You posted the same thing, last month!

arcade are dying ?????
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41108

EDIT: Besides the thread you posted last month, here are some great ones where people have already kicked this idea around. Unfortunately, you're not the first one to notice this trend. I can't imagine a world without arcades ... maybe that's why I built one in my backyard.

Detroit's most renowned arcade closes its doors
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42695

Arcade Scene, U.S.A.; Just How Bad Is It?
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24921

No arcades!
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21813

the sad state of today's arcades
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19474

[TheRedEye]

Arcades need more games like Derby Owners Club. Any game where you can breed horses to the point of SELLING THEM ON EBAY is awesome.

[Jibbajaba]

People will of course point out the fact that I am horribly stupid after reading this, but oh well. It seems to me that arcades might do better if gaming companies saw arcade cabinets as a means of advertising, by creating arcade ports of games that they are developing for home consoles. Like there could be an arcade version of games like Devil May Cry, or Gran Turismo, or whatever. Then they sell them to arcades at barely above cost. Obviously arcade ports couldnt be exactly like the home versions because of a lack of ability to save, but not really. They have that racing game that allows you to buy cars and upgrade them and whatnot Gran Turismo-style and you just have a card for your wallet that resembles a copy-card. Maybe more people would buy the home version of the games if they had them in arcades as well. I just look at the success of that racing game I mentioned (there is always a huge line to play it here) and I am willing to bet that people would buy it if there were a PS2 or XBox version. I guess what I'm getting at is more of an integration of arcade games and home console games. It might boost the popularity of both.

Think about it. If there was a Gran Turismo arcade machine where you sat down in it just like other racing games, people would play the shit out of it, and you can't convince me that it would hurt the sales of the PS2 version. Just like ow record sales increased when Napster was first introduced. Let people sample stuff and they are more inclined to buy it. I don't think that game rental counts because it is so expensive.

Well anyway, what do you guys think?

Chris

[Ed Oscuro]

Arcade gaming will last as long as arcades stay ahead of their time.
"Ahead of their time" is always a humorous comment, seeing how next-gen tech is ALWAYS too expensive. Anyhow, that's just a comment in general about a convention of our language - not meant as a personal attack, of course! We tend to unthinkingly equate "new" with "successful," and that's not a good assumption to make, especially considering how arcades are one of the few places in the public sector where nostalgia is arguably an economic force.

Now, onto that assertion. I disagree strongly. Think about the fine art scene for a moment (humor me) - an example I'm sure we can all understand and agree with would be, say, the works of Andy Warhol. He was "ahead of his time," in that he was dealing with issues nobody else really wanted to. Fine. I still hate his paintings, though I still "admire" them.

Being "ahead of the time" is NOT a recipe for success.

In fact, attempting to be "ahead of the times" is a recipe for disaster (Hyper Neo 64, Sega's first 3D racers, and the rest).

The only things keeping arcades in business are:

1.) Location. An arcade in a Las Vegas hotel that has a casino inside will very likely pull down lots of cash, seeing how it's a great way to let the kids or (smart) non-gambling adults have fun.

2.) Appeal to groups. With the casino example, you're appealing to families with kids. An arcade near or inside a college campus will do better than one that isn't so close to a place where adults aren't hanging nearby between classes (all other things remaining equal).

3.) Gives a quality experience. People play the same types of games, and DDR is just a traditional concept - Twister - set to music and made fluid. There's nothing new here. Party games like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Golden Axe, and Street Fighter II' all have a common element in that they're easy to pick up and play or watch. Games DO have a vested interest in looking visually interesting, but thankfully lots of people have moved beyond simply looking for the most advanced-looking game and can appreciate the simple fun of an early pre-Golden Age arcade game. An example of a game that takes some "modern" technology would be Konami's relatively recent Tsurugi, which actually isn't so much different from the direct-to-TV Dragon Warrior motion sensing sword game in a way.

[Aswald]

All I can say is that we used to love arcades in my day because there was always something NEW there. Mr. Do!. Tempest. Joust. Pulsar. Battlezone. Etc.

But it seems to be largely the same thing over and over again these days.

It might not be a bad idea to try some earlier genres. Those souped-up Gauntlet games did quite well.

[goatdan]

I'll say what I've been saying for a while on this topic:

Arcades are not dead, and the concept is not dead. It's been bad operators that haven't changed at all with the times for the past fifteen years complaining that the game makers need to save them with a new hit.

They've had a LOT of games that could have been potentially huge over the past 15 years, but most of them have failed to latch onto the concept much and therefore are losing their market.

And for background -- I've worked and managed at two different arcades, one that was a success and one that was failing, and the management attitude toward the crowd was the single biggest difference between the two.

[slip81]

It'sa shame to see arcades starting to dissappear. It is nice that games are starting to seel for cheaper prices, but I would rather got to an arcade and pay the .50 for a game just for the sense of community and having everyone crowd around and watch during a heated fight or something like that.

It seems that online gaming is putting and end to the need for arcades. I think to most casual gamers it's a lot better to be able to face thousands of opponets from your home for 12.00 a month than to have to travel and pay per game.

What someone needs to do is open up a retro arcade. I bet with all the reto hype now that would do really well.

[downfall]

Arcade gaming will last as long as arcades stay ahead of their time.
"Ahead of their time" is always a humorous comment, seeing how next-gen tech is ALWAYS too expensive. Anyhow, that's just a comment in general about a convention of our language - not meant as a personal attack, of course! We tend to unthinkingly equate "new" with "successful," and that's not a good assumption to make, especially considering how arcades are one of the few places in the public sector where nostalgia is arguably an economic force.

Now, onto that assertion. I disagree strongly. Think about the fine art scene for a moment (humor me) - an example I'm sure we can all understand and agree with would be, say, the works of Andy Warhol. He was "ahead of his time," in that he was dealing with issues nobody else really wanted to. Fine. I still hate his paintings, though I still "admire" them.

Being "ahead of the time" is NOT a recipe for success.

In fact, attempting to be "ahead of the times" is a recipe for disaster (Hyper Neo 64, Sega's first 3D racers, and the rest).

The only things keeping arcades in business are:

3.) Gives a quality experience. People play the same types of games, and DDR is just a traditional concept - Twister - set to music and made fluid. There's nothing new here. Party games like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Golden Axe, and Street Fighter II' all have a common element in that they're easy to pick up and play or watch. Games DO have a vested interest in looking visually interesting, but thankfully lots of people have moved beyond simply looking for the most advanced-looking game and can appreciate the simple fun of an early pre-Golden Age arcade game. An example of a game that takes some "modern" technology would be Konami's relatively recent Tsurugi, which actually isn't so much different from the direct-to-TV Dragon Warrior motion sensing sword game in a way.

Understood! Great points Ed! Though probably not necessarily what I meant, I thought it got the point across. I believe I'm off on that. ;)

However, I think your number 3 there wraps up exactly what I was trying to say. I certainly didn't mean that games have to look great or be chock full of the latest technology or anything of that nature. To me, it's all a matter of experience. When I say that it will last as long as arcades stay ahead of their time, I mean that arcades will last as long as they can provide experiences that home video game systems cannot. Regardless of how powerful the Xbox or PS2 may be, it's just not the same playing Time Crisis on the TV at my house as it is playing Time Crisis with the foot pedal and so forth at the arcade.

I think that's why they were successful in the first place, and why they will be successful until it's possible and feasible for the average person to have an almost exact experience in their living room. That's why I rarely play Mrs. Pac-Man outside the arcade. Not much of anything at home even comes close to the experience of standing in front of a cabinet (or for me, playing the cocktail).

[goatdan]

What someone needs to do is open up a retro arcade. I bet with all the reto hype now that would do really well.

Honestly, this idea doesn't work nearly as well as you think it would.

While some retro games are still money makers, one of those two arcades I worked in had a large retro section with about 25 or 30 awesome retro games. With the exception of when a person came in just to play them, they usually sat waiting for someone to check them out which rarely happened. The exception was Ms. Pac-Man, but a ton of the others didn't earn more than $25.00 / week, which when the main money earners are getting $100 / day, isn't really too good...

[Ed Oscuro]

However, I think your number 3 there wraps up exactly what I was trying to say. I certainly didn't mean that games have to look great or be chock full of the latest technology or anything of that nature.
Right, right - and from what Dan of the Goat Store's saying, it seems the public isn't quite as far along as I had hoped (though maybe now that the Jakks joysticks are out..?)

So you're right, it's a combination of putting some new elements - stuff only new tech can achieve - with some of the older gameplay elements. I'd say that a lot of the newer stuff didn't quite succeed because it didn't have the immediate feeling of accomplishment/gratification that the older machines did. This is also true of Dragon's Lair, and even those games "with special themes" you might find in "certain places," further confusing the issue - but you can move past THAT with a simple question of "Where am I opening my arcade?"

Gun games, physical activity games, and deathmatch/co-op games have always done well. Personally I like them more than sidescrollers in an arcade setting because they offer hardware that you can't get at home, while right beside me is a PC that can emulate most any arcade game there ever was :P

You can't underestimate the effect home consoles have had on that traditional market. We all love the MVS, PGS, Titan-Video, System 16/etc. but when you've got a home console you can play on at your leisure and movies to watch with friends the arcades look like a less viable option.

On the other hand, you can't go full out and build something like a Galaxian 3 setup except at the very busiest spots in the world...gotta pay the rent with what you're taking in! There's a problem as well...you've either got a simple game (perhaps too simple) that people might look at as "nothing I haven't played before" (Galaxian 3 isn't too far off Operation Wolf, after all!) or you've got something that's unique, and expensive as HELL when somebody bashes in a corner or tears a piece off. Even gun controllers go bad quickly.

[goatdan]

Ed,

I would agree with almost everything you said. The problem how I see it is that owners keep saying that they need a new game that will draw people out of their homes to play. They point at games like Pac-Man, Asteroids, Space Invaders, Ms. Pac-Man as the "classic" examples and games like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter II and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as more modern examples.

The problem is that new consoles have eclipsed the ability for these types of games to work at drawing a lot of money now. I don't need a totally new, expensive set of hardware to play a 2D shooter or 3D fighter.

What I don't have is a car-like structure at home with a subwoofer pointed at my ass. I don't have a DDR set up with the flashing lights and the huge sound system. I don't have a huge gun with a bunch of different features for blowing away Zombies.

Unfortunately, arcades tend to purchase the games that you can get on home consoles a lot more often. When that happens, they might make $100 / day for a month, but then the game is released for a home console... and the sales dry up to $25 / week. Suddenly, your $6000.00 investment doesn't look so hot.

Pinball machines are another thing that you can't get, but the problem is that owners don't look at keeping them up to date and functioning. A pinball machine is a regular earner, and for the most part will continue to earn about the same amount of money after the first few months -- but owners won't spend the $5.00 / month needed to keep it operating well. One specifiically told me that he didn't put in new rubbers and lights because "it's earning some money right now, but not much. Why would I put money in a game that doesn't earn much?" Well, perhaps if it had any rubbers left, it would be played more. (There were NO rubber bumpers left.)

The reason that arcade games can be bought relatively cheap right now is that arcades still exist, and arcades are trying to sell off the games that don't make money to other operators or home owners. If the arcade industry started marketing to sell the games only to home owners and all arcades closed, the prices on most of these games would rise significantly.

And from having seen the industry operate... if I ever get some money together I would love to enter it. There is a lot of money to be made in the arcade industry if it is done correctly... And that takes a mix of things much more complicated than just the above.

[Ed Oscuro]

Unfortunately, arcades tend to purchase the games that you can get on home consoles a lot more often. When that happens, they might make $100 / day for a month, but then the game is released for a home console... and the sales dry up to $25 / week. Suddenly, your $6000.00 investment doesn't look so hot.
Yup, that's the thing. It's the classic problem - you've got to HAVE money to MAKE money, and...well... :o

[Raedon]

anytime I need some acrade injection I just go to Darren's. It's sort of like Flynn's only without the cute coin girls.

[Duncan]

What I want when I go to the arcade:

1) A realistic simulation of driving a vehicle as fast as it can go, with no penalty from the cops or the risk of damage to my own vehicle. (Examples: the "full-size" Out Run sit-down cabinet, Ferrari F355 Challenge, 18-Wheeler.)

2) A realistic, danger-filled simulation of shooting down evil criminals and ne'er-do-wells for the good of humanity. (Examples: any Time Crisis game, Area 51, any Virtua Cop, or whatever that Konami one is where the game actually watches your movements and translates them onto the screen.)

3) The feeling of being right in the middle of a pitched military conflict, dodging bullets and firing away at the enemy. (Examples: full-size After Burner cabinets that "roll", Beachhead 2000, maybe a new version of Vindicators.)

In short, I want things that I can't get at home. Yeah, I love Gran Turismo as much as the next guy, but how f**king awesome would it be to choose from over 600 real cars in the arcade and then drive them with the full in-car experience and engine roar? It wouldn't take too much extra enhancement over the home game to make that work, and the most expensive parts would be the controls. Better yet, I'd then be able to pop my PS2 memory card into the machine and download my own custom set of cars and tuning parts.

Then again, why not put more diverse games in the arcades? How about RPGs? Wouldn't the Phantasy Star Online concept work just as well with everyone in the same room? And why can't people shoot for high scores on Grand Theft Auto in front of a crowd?

Arcades are all about proving your gaming skill to everyone else, without having to invite them all to your house. Modern gaming could have embraced this idea long before now (games like F-Zero GX and AX have tried, of course).

Where's the innovation or imagination?

[SoulBlazer]

Every time I go to my local Dave and Busters, the place is PACKED. So what's bringing people into the place -- the games, the food, the pool tables, or some combonation?

[goatdan]

Every time I go to my local Dave and Busters, the place is PACKED. So what's bringing people into the place -- the games, the food, the pool tables, or some combonation?

The combination and especially the marketing.

One of the arcades I worked at was Chuck E Cheese. When you can make over $10,000 in a weekend, something is going well. And they wouldn't have been doing that if it wasn't because of their arcade. CEC makes money from an ingenious ticket scheme -- not because of the games but because of the prizes. The prizes are worth pennies on the dollar, but they are the *only* official way to get a lot of Chuck E Cheese merchandise.

Market CEC to kids so they fall in love with the concept and then send them off gambling on games to get enough tickets to get the tatoo or keychain or shirt that the other kids got last week, and you've got a winner. Use a character that isn't being marketed as such and it doesn't have the same effect. I can go get a Bugs Bunny T-Shirt at a million different places, why do I need to spend my money at the arcade to get one?

[Jasoco]

I wish I had an arcade near me.. Anywhere near me. :(

[Promophile]

I love my namco arcade I've picked up SO much pac-man merchindise there.

[Fuyukaze]

Maybe we should start a new thread about the GOOD arcades we know of in our own neck of the woods? The best one I have found in Houston isnt that great. The best part is that it has a Virtua on sit down 2 player cabnit. They charge 1$ a play though. Its at the Greenspoint mall.

[Flack]

Maybe we should start a new thread about the GOOD arcades we know of in our own neck of the woods? The best one I have found in Houston isnt that great. The best part is that it has a Virtua on sit down 2 player cabnit. They charge 1$ a play though. Its at the Greenspoint mall.

I started that thread ... HERE! (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36305)

[Fuyukaze]

Flack wrote-

I started that thread ... HERE!

Thanks! Didnt see that on any searches before....glad to see there is one!