Why no A-rated games?

[tony_good]

I know there is a classification by the ESRB, either A or AO for adults only, that is stronger than M.

Why haven't there been any games for the consoles with this rating (or have there been?)?

I know a lot of chains wouldn't carry them, but they'd be almost guaranteed to be big sellers, if for no other reason than people would be curious as to what is allowed in a truly no-holds-barred title.

What taboos would you like to see broken?

[Flack]

I'd like to see more games with racial stereotypes ... ;)

I always assumed that the A would be for games sexual in nature, where M seemed to deal more with violence. Does anyone know what the official difference is?

I guess big game developers see the "A" rating similar to the NC-17 rating, which is considered death in the movie world. Still, you gotta think some company somewhere is working on the next gen equivalent of Custer's Revenge somewhere ...

[Algol]

For one thing, the console manufacturers wouldn't like it. Second, it's extremely difficult for any game to sell well if there aren't any chains that will take it.

[PapaStu]

I think part of the problem is that if and when someone makes one of those, whats going to tag it as an A/O game? The Guy Game and BMX XXX both show frontal nudity and got "M" ratings. Some other games with huge amounts of freedom to "Do what you want" like GTA3/VC and True Crime got "M" ratings; The Suffering ManHunt both exampifly violence and got "M" ratings. Other games that just use heavy amounts of profanity like Deathrow and some of the above mentioned games only got a "M" rating.

So in those instances whats good enough to get that A/O tag? Cussing doesnt do it anymore, Frontal nudity doesnt cut it either, and the open-endedness that allows you to do things normally illegal dont get the call. So maybe its gotten to the point where fully visualized sex (be it simulated or real [like video clips]) is going to be what it takes. And if thats the case, then no company is going to take that step, because they can get enough shock value, and glitz, gore, and skin shown in the current manners to not even need to worry about it.

My guess is that the A/O is like the X MPAA rating that gets tossed around some, its used as a threat to force the film to be toned down enough for a commercial release, they might use the A/O rating in the same manner.

[Queen Of The Felines]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine

[JJNova]

The MP double A doesn't have an X rating. Or an XX rating, or a XXX rating. They even say so themselves on the website. The NC-17 rating is the movie industries AO. And there are AO games out, just not commercially published. People do make them though, in their garages, where the wife can't see (unless she is starring in them). MWAHAHAHA...I mean, yeah.

[slownerveaction]

I believe the ESRB has said something to the effect of the AO rating only being applied to games that feature hardcore sex (i.e. full-on penetrative XXX nastiness). Whether that applies to video clips or polygonal coitus... I don't know.

That seems a bit silly to me (what game is going to feature sexual content that explicit?), but then again the M rating is supposed to be equal to a MPAA R rating. There are R-rated movies with full frontal nudity and extreme violence. Although... there are definitely M-rated games coming out today that skirt with NC-17 territory.

I remember reading a piece (don't remember where) that suggested the ESRB just duplicate the MPAA's system -- both for clarity and easy recognization (every parent knows G, PG, PG-13, and R, but they might not know T from M). It would make a lot of sense, if you ask me.

[Cryomancer]

I was under the impression that "Singles" for PC was AO but I could be wrong.

[Emily]

What about all of the porn games for the FM Towns Marty?

[El CiF]

i believe an AO game was just released, that Singles: Flirt Up Your Life game or something of that sort

[Algol]

What about all of the porn games for the FM Towns Marty?

The Marty is Japanese. The ESRB only operates in North America.

[SoulBlazer]

Yes, Singles DOES have a AO rating. I've dowloaded the game and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's online only, that's how they get around the stores and what not.

[slip81]

I remember reading a piece (don't remember where) that suggested the ESRB just duplicate the MPAA's system -- both for clarity and easy recognization (every parent knows G, PG, PG-13, and R, but they might not know T from M). It would make a lot of sense, if you ask me.

That would be a good idea. I could never understand why there was an AO rating. if sex is what you want, why not just get an adult video? But then again someone could make a really good, yet extremely graphic game that garners the AO rating, we just haven't seen it yet.

[Iron Draggon]

I'd like to see a more openly gay version of Final Fight. That game has more gay innuendo going on in it than any other game I've ever played. (Yes, I've heard all about the Cho Aniki series, but I've never played any of them yet!) I used to call that game "Butch Man Attacks Metro City" because it was so blatantly gay. If you're gay then you know what I mean, if you're straight then let me spell it out for you. (FF fans may not want to read any futher!)

First of all, look at the cover art for the SNES version. There hasn't been a more stereotypical depiction of the butch gay man since Freddy Mercury. Haggar is the epitome of the butch gay man. If there's any video game character that I have sexual fantasies about, it's Haggar. He is the butchest of the butch. He drips with testosterone. They show that on the SNES box too. Unfortunately though, I don't own the SNES version yet, because I consider the Sega CD version to be the best home version. But I will own it someday, just for the cover art on that box alone. Haggar is my gay Daddy!

Now, let's get into some scenes from the game that indicate that someone on the development team of that game must be gay. There is no denying it. The first thing that comes to mind is those thin guys usually seen wearing pink who almost always travel in pairs. Call them whatever you want, but they're gay. Look at how they stand, how they walk, how they fight. They are gay without a doubt. You can say they're not, but they definitely are.

The first scene that comes to mind is when you're fighting on the subway train. Those thin guys are so obviously supposed to be gay guys riding the rails late at night cruising for sex that their animations even suggest this. Look at how they sit in those seats before they get up to fight you. They are in the cruising position. They want some gay sex, and they want it bad. When they approach you, they are making their move. Were it not for the fact that this game is supposed to be a street brawler and not a street cruiser, those guys would be coming at you with alot more than their fists. And I'm not even gonna get into all the innuendo associated with gay guys and fists. If you've never heard of fisting, you don't wanna know what it is.

The next scene that comes to mind is when you're fighting in the city park. Oh man, it just doesn't get anymore gay than this, without actually showing all the gay sex taking place! Have you ever noticed the part where you're passing by the public restrooms? Those toilets are so obviously a well known cruising spot that I'm surprised they didn't show a cop getting blown in the background. Just look at all those guys hanging out around that restroom. What do you think they're doing there? Just waiting for you to come along so they can fight you? Not hardly. They are there for gay sex. That scene is so suggestive of a bunch of gay guys hanging out at what we gay guys call a "tea room" that I was seriously surprised that I didn't see anybody with his pants around his ankles and a guy right next to him on his kness somewhere in the background. There is totally alot of unseen gay sex going on in that scene somewhere in the vicinity of those restrooms, they just didn't show it.

I could give you alot more examples, but I haven't played the game in a long time, so they aren't all fresh in my mind. But those two scenes in particular stand out, and will always stand out in my mind as evidence that this game was aimed very squarely at a gay audience, and the unsuspecting straight audience that loves it so much probably never even suspected a thing until I mentioned it. I never got any farther than the city park scene before I ran out of all my continues, so I don't know what happens next, but I always hoped that there would be something at the end to make it even more obvious that Haggar is gay. We already know it's safe to assume that he's a single Dad, because when Jessica is kidnapped there is no mention of this to Mom, or any suggestion that there even is a Mom, except we know there has to be one. And why do you think this is? Haggar is obviously divorced because he could no longer deny his latent homosexuality to himself, and he had to start acting on it before he cracked up and started lashing out at people in a mad rage of anger at himself for these feelings he has that just won't go away. Perhaps that's really the true message behind this game.

And what's the first thing that Haggar does after learning that Jessica has been kidnapped? Does he call his ex-wife to tell her about the awful news? No, he calls his main butt-buddies, Guy & Cody! Now here we go again with all the subtle gay innuendo. Guy & Cody are so obviously gay lovers that it's a wonder that they aren't seen holding each other at some point in the game. Even their names are gay. Guy & Cody are what we gay guys call "twinks". They are hot young studs always on the lookout for gay sex. So it's no big surprise that Haggar is their best friend. I'm sure they often get together with him for 3-ways on the weekends, but unfortunately this isn't shown in the game either. We only get some rather vague hints that this is the case. Why is Cody so indifferent at first that his ex-girlfriend has been kidnapped? Because he's totally into Guy, and totally into guys now, that's why. If it wasn't for the fact that she just happens to be the daughter of his other favorite gay playmate, he would never have helped anyone go looking for her, much less whoever it was that kidnapped her in the first place. Good riddance, as far as he's concerned. She has never been anything but trouble to him. She is constantly getting in the way of his secret affairs with Haggar behind Guy's back, and the only good thing that ever came out of him being involved with her is that's how he met Haggar, who introduced him to Guy.

Haggar loves muscular young boys, because they remind him of himself at an earlier age. He envies Guy & Cody for being so out of the closet at such a young age, and he wishes that he had come out when he was that age, before he got married to a woman and had a daughter. If it wasn't for those two mistakes in his life, he wouldn't even have to go around beating people up in this game, and he could just go around having sex with them all, like he really wants to. But he still loves his daughter, mostly because she has this great habit of bringing hot young boys home to meet him, which gives him the perfect opportunity to seduce them later, when she's not around. You think that's not what he's doing behind her back? Then why is Cody her ex-boyfriend, and why is Haggar totally OK with that? He's still good friends with Cody, even though Guy is his boyfriend now. And he doesn't mind that Guy & Cody became lovers because he still gets to have gay sex with both of them. Haggar is enjoying himself. Any boy he wants who tries to resist his advances finds out the hard way that they really don't have a choice in the matter. Just look at him. He could beat anyone up. So he threatens the ones who resist with physical harm, and he gets what he wants anyway.

Also, Haggar is an ex-wrestler. This has all kinds of obviously gay connotations to it as well, if you know anything at all about wrestling. That was how he first found out that he was really gay, getting all hot and sweaty with all those other hot and sweaty muscular men in the ring every Saturday night was just too much for him to deny it anymore. He wanted to do alot more with all those men than just wrestle them, so that's why he left wrestling. He just couldn't handle all the pressure of having to fight all those guys alll the time when he really wanted to do alot more than just fight them all. So he campaigned for mayor because he figured that if he held a position of power, he could get any guy he wanted without even having to resort to threats of physical violence. He could just threaten to have those who try to resist arrested, or any number of things to make their lives miserable until they give in and comply to his wishes. Haggar is no fool, so he defies the big dumb jock image. He has it all going on in at so many levels that there's no way that he'll ever go without all the gay sex that he constantly craves, and this game is just another way for him to get all pumped up and horny on an adrenaline rush before he screws the crap out of some hot young stud. Or should I say studs? No doubt he'll be celebrating the safe return of Jessica with yet another wild weekend with Guy & Cody. Those thin guys who always travel in pairs don't do anything for him because they're just not muscular enough, that's why he always just kicks their asses, instead of playing hide the sausage with them. He could really care less what the Mad Gear gang does, he just has a thing against guys who don't work out enough. He thinks that every man should be as buff as he is, because he knows that he exudes the butchest of butchness, and he gets off on it!

So obviously there's enough material to expand on here to make the all new Final Fight AO a very different game from all of it's earlier predecessors. The possibilities are simply astounding. I've barely even scratched the surface of the first game here. I'm not even gonna go into the two sequels, and all the other games and related games in the series, except to say that Haggar's new ponytail in all the later games is apparently an attempt to make him look more straight. I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed how blatantly gay he is, so Capcom must've answered the complaints with his new ponytail. They also toned down all the gay innuendo so much in all the other games that it's ptractically nonexistant in all the other ones, but it's still there. My big gay Daddy Haggar is still the studliest of studs, and the butchest of the butch, so I just ignore the stupid new ponytail and pretend it's not there. It's obviously a weave anyway, because he couldn't have grown one that long in the short period of time between the first game and the next one. They were just trying to make him not look so obviously gay, but it really didn't help very much. He shows off way too many bulges to not be gay, with or without the ponytail, and he almost never wears a shirt either! The only time that he's seen wearing one that I know of is when he's in his office and he gets the call that Jessica has been kidnapped. After that, it's check out all my bulges baby, because I'm the biggest, baddest, butchest gay man in the entire video game world! Butch Man Attacks Metro City!

[Ed Oscuro]

What about all of the porn games for the FM Towns Marty?
Yeah, go look at eBay. It's TOTALLY STOCKED with them. http://www.digitpress.com/forum/images/smiles/js_confused.gif

(Read that as sarcasm, for any mental midgets reading this :P)

@ Iron Dragon: Huh, haven't managed to play through a Final Fight yet. BEUs tend to be about muscular folks after all, though in that department that one boss (you know the one) from Undercover Cops really can't be beat. Not even the smoochy dude from Final Fight (hey, there's a screenshot of him smooching Hagar in an old NP issue I own http://www.digitpress.com/forum/images/smiles/Llol.gif

[zmweasel]

First of all, look at the cover art for the SNES version. There hasn't been a more stereotypical depiction of the butch gay man since Freddy Mercury./

Freddie Mercury was about as "butch" as Elton John.

-- Z.

[Queen Of The Felines]

Iron Draggon, will you be my friend? That was GREAT and you're absolutely right. LOL

Back on topic, if U.S. publishers were to start putting out AO games I sure hope they'd be better than some of the weird stuff in Japan.

http://www.somethingawful.com/hentai/

Kristine

[The Manimal]

This thread is funny LOL

[GarrettCRW]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine

As any X-Play viewer knows, Sexy Beach 2 for the PS2 would be A/O if released in the US.

[Promophile]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine

As any X-Play viewer knows, Sexy Beach 2 for the PS2 would be A/O if released in the US.

I don't think SB2 is on the PS2... Unless they made a port sometime recent. Its a PC game.

[hydr0x]

polygonal coitus


LOL


just to let you know, Singles: Flirt up your Life was commercially released over here and got an USK 16 if i'm not totally wrong... didn't look sexually explicit to me from what i saw, haven't played it though...

[dojosky]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine

yeah same here ! and also several more !! forgot the other titles LOL

[SoulBlazer]

The reason Singles got the AO rating is cause they have some cutscenes of the charcters doing 'the act'. Only the first time they hook up. After that, it just shows them lying in bed kissing and touching, and nothing private either. :)

It's just really more of a adult and mission focused version of the Sims. Still a fun game, though.

[Sniderman]

polygonal coitus

Which would be a great name for a rock band.

/Dave Barry

[autobotracing]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine


I have that too and another like it.I also have a few xxx vids that are in psx format and 2 paper rock scissors games.



on a side not wasnt threre some AO games for the 3do in the usa>?

[Kepone]

i have a bootleg European PSX game called "Virtual Sex Starring Farah" that's pretty AO rated. :eek 2:

Kristine

Pictures? :D

[DDCecil]

They need to bring a Strip Mahjong, or hell, a NORMAL Mahjong title to America, as a budget title or otherwise. Not that Shanghai crap, either. Real one on one mahjong. I want to play with easy to understand instructions WITH pictures, which I can't find online. Are you listening Seta? Please bring one over before I die. I don't want to be like the 90-year old woman who never got a chance to play Dragon Quest VI in English. She's probably dead now :bawling: Thank you.

Now that I think about it, I don't even know if this is related to the topic at hand.

[ScottK]

Didn't the adult 3DO games have a AO rating? I thought that I used to see a "not for sale to minors" or "adults only" label on the cases. If they did then I don't know why that got the rating as all they are is a bunch of Skinemax movies, heh.

BTW...What's the difference between the "E" rating and the "K-A" rating? Don't they both mean the same thing?

[Cmosfm]

Iron Draggon, that was great, You obviously put a LOT of thought into that!

Oh man, I haven't had a laugh like that in a long time. ROFL

Ok though, you have to tell me the story behind Mighty Final Fight now. :D

[SoulBlazer]

If I recall correctly, the 'K-A' rating is not used anymore, it was replaced by the 'E' rating. They mean the same.

[Gapporin]

Heh, this reminds me of an ad that I saw once for the game.com that said that Fighters Megamix was rated AO.

What was even more hilarious is that Duke Nukem was on the same page, and it was rated T.

[GamerTheGreek]

well look at leisure suit larry. see where they sensor the game ill say thats the difference between M and AO. nothing more

[JJNova]

If I recall correctly, the 'K-A' rating is not used anymore, it was replaced by the 'E' rating. They mean the same.

K-A was replaced with the EC rating. The K-A rating was what was given to small child, learning games. Realizing that the Kids to Adults rating for it was ridiculous (Probably because the games weren't adult friendly...Dont get me wrong, I can play a preschool game, but there are some EC games that you just wouldn't touch). The EX rating now stands for Early Child which refers to Developmental games. The Difference between EC and E ratings is that the EC is for children 3 and older, while the Everyone rating is for children 6 or older.

-Source "http://www.esrb.com ESRB"

[Famidrive-16]

There was a transvestite in the japanese final fight that got removed.

[CRV]

Didn't the adult 3DO games have a AO rating? I thought that I used to see a "not for sale to minors" or "adults only" label on the cases. If they did then I don't know why that got the rating as all they are is a bunch of Skinemax movies, heh.

3DO, like Sega, had its own rating system until the ESRB was established. I believe AO was their "adult" rating and I believe it did appear on some games.


K-A was replaced with the EC rating. The K-A rating was what was given to small child, learning games. Realizing that the Kids to Adults rating for it was ridiculous (Probably because the games weren't adult friendly...Dont get me wrong, I can play a preschool game, but there are some EC games that you just wouldn't touch). The EX rating now stands for Early Child which refers to Developmental games. The Difference between EC and E ratings is that the EC is for children 3 and older, while the Everyone rating is for children 6 or older.

EC's been there since the beginning. Around 1998 or so, E replaced K-A.

[atarifan]

I emailed esrb and they were no help at all sorry this is what they sent me: :( :angry:

Thank you for your inquiry.
The information you are looking for can be found on our website: www.esrb.org. Rating and descriptor information can be found by clicking on the “ESRB Game Ratings,” button and then clicking on the “Game Ratings and Descriptor Guide”. You can also do a “power search” (to search for list of games by publisher, rating, genre, etc.), by clicking on the power search button in the search box.

To date the ESRB has rated 17 games AO - Adults Only.

Regards,

Entertainment Software Rating Board

-----Original Message-----
From: sjcrawley@xxxxxxxx.xxx
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 10:17 PM
To: Consumer Online Hotline@ESRB.ORG
Subject: ESRB Consumer Online-Hotline - Questions about a Rating


Please choose which item best describes your inquiry:
Questions about a Rating


Please describe your complaint, comment, or concern:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43340 please clarify aO vs m rating

[goatdan]

Some of the Vivid 3DO "games" were rated AO, although I would strongly debate whether or not they were actually games.

I think that the reason that there hasn't been any publicly released AO games is more for the fact that it would be hard to promote them and hard to justify the content. The Vivid samplers were basically overpriced video samples from their movies that (if I recall from the one that I saw part of) censored out all of the graphic sex. Why would you pay $30.00 for one of those when you could pick up the actual video for less or one like it?

As for making a game AO, I just feel that you really don't need it. You can show enough to make a scene intimate and know what is going to happen without showing it happening. And really, other than shock value, why do it? It would be nearly impossible to try to sell, and in the world of the Internet... probably not too profitable.

[zmweasel]

well look at leisure suit larry. see where they sensor the game ill say thats the difference between M and AO. nothing more

Agreed. T = any amount of bloodless violence; M = any amount of graphic violence or profanity, or female breasts; AO = male or female genitals.

-- Z.

[ArnoldRimmer83]

They need to bring a Strip Mahjong, or hell, a NORMAL Mahjong title to America, as a budget title or otherwise. Not that Shanghai crap, either. Real one on one mahjong. I want to play with easy to understand instructions WITH pictures, which I can't find online. Are you listening Seta? Please bring one over before I die. I don't want to be like the 90-year old woman who never got a chance to play Dragon Quest VI in English. She's probably dead now :bawling: Thank you.

Now that I think about it, I don't even know if this is related to the topic at hand.

If there was ever a perfect opportunity to bring a Mahjong game over to the US, it would have to be that upcoming Mario one on the DS. Just having Mario and company in the game, might cause curious people to check it out.

Too bad the likelihood of Nintendo bring that over is zero.

[ArnoldRimmer83]

They need to bring a Strip Mahjong, or hell, a NORMAL Mahjong title to America, as a budget title or otherwise. Not that Shanghai crap, either. Real one on one mahjong. I want to play with easy to understand instructions WITH pictures, which I can't find online. Are you listening Seta? Please bring one over before I die. I don't want to be like the 90-year old woman who never got a chance to play Dragon Quest VI in English. She's probably dead now :bawling: Thank you.

Now that I think about it, I don't even know if this is related to the topic at hand.

If there was ever a perfect opportunity to bring a Mahjong game over to the US, it would have to be that upcoming Mario one on the DS. Just having Mario and company in the game, might cause curious people to check it out.

Too bad the likelihood of Nintendo bring that game over is zero.

[ArnoldRimmer83]

Oops. Could a mod delete that extra post from me please?

[GarrettCRW]

K-A was replaced with the EC rating.

I'm not so sure about that-I have a number of K-A titles, and they're all along the lines of Mega Man and Super Mario Bros., which are hardly EC fare (a rating still used by the ESRB the last I heard).

[poe]

Yes, Singles DOES have a AO rating. I've dowloaded the game and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's online only, that's how they get around the stores and what not.

Actually, yesterday I did see a copy in EBGames, with an M rating. I was under the impression it was AO until I saw that. I saw something online about editing a .cfg or .ini file to add or remove some censoring, so maybe there's a different retail box version.

Or maybe an AO rating requires something REALLY horrific, like Borislav Herak's Bosnian Rape Camp Superchamp (http://www.oldmanmurray.com/news/news4.html).

EDIT:Just checked ESRB's website, which says Singles is AO, so this is probably a toned down retail box version.

[SoulBlazer]

It is. That's a edited version for sale on store shelves. You can still download the full vrsion from Eidos's website.

[Jorpho]

There was a flagrantly, er, stereotypical character in the Japanese version of Streets of Rage 3 (he was even playable), but he wasn't available in the American version without a Game Genie code. (There are an awful lot of overly muscular guys in fighting games, but I guess the same can be said about comic books.)

Omikron comes to mind, but I never heard that it got too explicit.

DreamWeb probably would have gotten an AO rating, but since it came out in 1994 I guess it predated that.