Sega and Nintendo should market and sell emulation

[Anthony1]

I can't understand why Sega and Nintendo doesn't try to make some money off the whole emulation scene.


Now, I already know what you are going to say. "They do make money off emulation, with all their anniversary collections that they relase for various systems."


But I'm not talking about that maket.


I'm talking about the emulation market. I think people that love emulation would be willing to pay good money for an official licensed and endorsed emulator and roms by Nintendo, Sega, NEC, Neo-Geo, Atari, 3DO, etc, etc.


Sure, tons of emulators have been made for all of these various systems, but think if Nintendo or Sega or Neo Geo or any of these companies actually made the emulator themselves. With their inside knowledge of exactly how their consoles worked, they could make an absolutely 100 percent flawless emulator of their systems.

Then they could sell these emulators, along with their own published roms, on a special DVD, that they would market specifically to the emulation community for like $99.99 or something like that.

Can you imagine if Nintendo actually made their own specific emulator for the NES. It would run 100 percently perfectly, and have all kinds of neat bells and whistles. They put it on a DVD, with all of their own roms, that would play absolutely perfect on it, and they retail it for $99.99.

Don't you think that some people would actually want to have the "official" emulator, and the official "roms", and they would actually buy it for $99?

Or they could have some type of club that you join, where you pay a monthly fee. They send you the emulator and some roms on a disk, and then every month, they send more roms. And it could be like a service or something. Maybe they could work out a deal with Comcast cable or Cox cable or something like that, where Comcast or Cox would actually have a special plug on their new cable boxes that would support different controllers that could be plugged in, if you used their on demand retro game service.

You know, you pay $19.95 per month, and you can play all the NES games, SNES games and N64 games that you want. The games would be 100 percent perfect, and you can even use the real controllers. Well actually they would be exactly like the real controllers, but they would have special plugs on the end of them that would plug into the Comcast or Cox or whoever's cable box.

Maybe they could do it off the internet with broadband. They could have a monthly service. With the Nintendo service you get to play all the NES, SNES and N64 you could want, and with the Sega service you could play Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, maybe even Dreamcast.

[Dahne]

First Thought: That would make it awfully easy for people to copy the roms and distribute them for free.

Second Thought: ...but people do that already.

It's an interesting idea.

[-hellvin-]

But what if people just want to collect original copies? ;D

I dunno, so many people get em for free daily would they really cash in that much on making people pay?

[Anthony1]

First Thought: That would make it awfully easy for people to copy the roms and distribute them for free.

Second Thought: ...but people do that already.

It's an interesting idea.


Yeah, I mean if Nintendo and Sega and NEC and Neo Geo and all these companies. If they really look at it honestly, then they know that the people that would be interested in this stuff already have it illegally.

But this would be a chance for these people to clear their conscience. They could buy the official licensed version of it, and the companies could offer it with things that you can't get illegally. Like for example the instruction manuals and stuff like that.

The bottom line is that the companies should take a look at emulation and ask themselves how they can make money off of it, instead of just looking at it as this evil thing.

The public at large doesn't really care about these old games, but their is a Niche market that does care, and although the vast majority of people that do care already have all the emulators and roms illegally, they might be willing to pay for everything, if it was licensed and included all the game manuals in PDF format and stuff like that. And exact replicas of the controllers that would work with USB.


On the XBOX and PS2 and Gamecube, they could offer discs that would contain like 100 Genesis games, or 100 SNES games or stuff like that. A mixture of games for the system, they could sell them for $49.99 each.

[Ed Oscuro]

You can already buy various Sega games off their website. I know Shinobi III was one - there's a standalone PC version.

So, I'm sure you had some nice points in there, but in the case of Sega they already have thought of them.

Nintendo doesn't sell PC versions because, like the Macintosh folks, it's a religion - Nintendo products only appear on Nintendo systems, with exceptions only if they feel it will profit them or their image greatly enough (and they haven't really done it in nearly ten years, since the CD-i and Mario Teaches Typing). They can make more money selling remakes for their own systems, and give folks yet more reasons to buy their hardware, instead of turning to a PC. Obviously, that's something Sega doesn't care about anymore.

Also, could you cut down on the number of topics reaching around essentially the same topic? You've got two topics on controllers, and there's no reason why this one couldn't have been doubled back into those - it's all about the economics of selling old games.

[farfel]

Nintendo makes far more money by charging $20 a game for each NES card or $40 for each Mario/Zelda Advance

[Sylentwulf]

There are WAY too many companys to do this right. Nintendo would have to get permission (and split revenues) with any game they include on an emulation disc.
Yes, nintendo should release all nintendo games on a disc, and it would be pretty friggin sweet. But as mentioned above, they're charging $15-$20 PER NES GAME right now and people are paying that much for them (a lot of people on THIS BOARD for example) Why release one disc with all of them for the same price?

No, I don't buy ANY of the re-released stuff for the gba. Yes, I would buy an NES/SNES emulation disc for the gamecube if it was done WELL (within nintendo's VAST resources, this shouldn't be a problem).

[Ed Oscuro]

There are WAY too many companys to do this right. Nintendo would have to get permission (and split revenues) with any game they include on an emulation disc.
That's not a problem since they already had to get other companies' permission to do the NES Classic Series rereleases.

[Kamino]

to me, emulation sucks, plain and simple.
At the very least, if I were to buy a "Nes disc" for gamecube, it would have to come with either 1) A nes pad(and an optional nes advantage!) as well as a zapper, or a nes to gc adapter. same goes for any other system, except with any other systems except saturn(3d pad please) and genesis(arcade power stick kthx) I'm fine with the standard controller. Well, i'm a guilty sick man who uses 7800 euro pads on atari 2600,7800, xe-computer, and colecovision... :evil:

But alas, i happen to like piling up cartridges. it looks kinda cool when i pile them on my desk and hide behind them.

[slip81]

I would only buy it it if they did the following two things; A)m ade sure the mulators and ROM's ran FLAWLESSLY and B) all the games for said system were on a disk. I' don't mind paying $100.00 for prefect emulation, but I would not pay that much for 100 out of 1000 games.

[Sylentwulf]

That's not a problem since they already had to get other companies' permission to do the NES Classic Series rereleases.

What other companies have they released for? I haven't really checked, but I thought they were all nintendo made games.

[Kamino]

That's not a problem since they already had to get other companies' permission to do the NES Classic Series rereleases.

What other companies have they released for? I haven't really checked, but I thought they were all nintendo made games.
I Think he's referring to third party licensing issues, perhaps?
Like, having to ask Konami permission to include Contra, Gradius, TMNT, etc?(without which, I might add, a NES compilation would be VERY sore...)

[Habeeb Hamusta]

Haha. Hmm. Make emulation so no one will buy their games? That's really smart man. I wonder why you aren't the President cause that's an awesone idea! heh. Get a grip.

[Sylentwulf]

Haha. Hmm. Make emulation so no one will buy their games? That's really smart man. I wonder why you aren't the President cause that's an awesone idea! heh. Get a grip.
:hmm: O_O

[SoulBlazer]

I've been saying that Nintendo and Sega could make boatloads of money doing this for years.

How do you protect the ROM's? Password. You need to enter a password to unzip them when you download them, one shot only, if the ROM gets moved somewhere else you need the password again.

Maybe eventuly we'll see companies doing this with their less popular games -- the ones they can't sell for $20 a pop. ;)

[Mangar]

The best way for either company to make money off emulation, is if they incorporate it into their next-gen consoles. (Well for Nintendo anyway)

As a company, Nintendo will ALWAYS make more money by rehashing old titles for the GBA, Compilation discs, and probably one of those 24-Game Joysticks in the future. Passworded roms won't work really, because someone who has enough knowledge to know what a ROM is, also knows where to go to get the the free one.

However, if you look at the X-Box, there is a whole secondary market of people who purchased and own the thing for no other reason then because it's a cheap and easy way to emulate most of the classic systems, and have it hooked to the TV, Surround Unit, and be in the living room. It's actually kind of amazing how big the "Emulation" market is on the X-Box, and i'm sure most of those people who bought it solely for that reason, have also picked up some actual X-Box games along the way.

So my point is - If Nintendo were smart, they would just one-up Microsoft on their next-gen console, and actually allow direct Hard-Drive access without the need for a mod-chip. It would be a kicker that would make it a "Must-Have" system for many, and definately increase their sales.

[pr8cjb]

Rather than an emulator (which I do use), I've often thought it would be great if Sega or Nintendo released some sort of combined machine to play older games. Surely it's not beyond modern technology to produce a reasonably sized machine that would play, say SMS, MD, MCD, 32X and Saturn titles in one box? That I would stump up £100 for. There is the controller issue, but perhaps a one-for-all approach or some kind of USB adapter could work? Just my 2 pence.

[Flack]

The story I always hear is that companies make little to no money (and often lose money) selling consoles. The way they recoup their losses is through the sale of games.

I don't see Nintendo or any other console giant putting out a console that allows you to play roms. Anything of that nature would be cracked in probably minutes rather than days. All you would have to do figure out the password/ident scheme (GP32 games were cracked in a record amount of time, despite a pretty advanced password checking scheme that involved connecting your GP32 to your PC via a USB cable and having to be online so that the game was uniquely made just for your handheld).

If the goal is for these companies is to sell games, I think the world of emulation is just too risky. From a security standpoint, I would think the system would be cracked in no time. But more importantly, from a marketing standpoint, I would think that anyone who wants to play emulated ROMS is already doing so. For free.

[Habeeb Hamusta]

Yes. Flack is exactly right.

[SoulBlazer]

But if I had a choice of being legal and downloading a ROM of a NES game for a dollar or two vs NOT being legal, I WOULD. Or maybe I'm just old fashioned. :)

[whoisKeel]

Didn't sega buy the company that was making GiriGiri (saturn emu)? I'm sure they have plans for that.

[Sylentwulf]

Buying a rom for $1-$2? Insane. Maybe $.01-$.02 ($15 for a NES set)

[Ed Oscuro]

What other companies have they [Nintendo] released for? I haven't really checked, but I thought they were all nintendo made games.
I Think he's referring to third party licensing issues, perhaps?
Like, having to ask Konami permission to include Contra, Gradius, TMNT, etc?(without which, I might add, a NES compilation would be VERY sore...)
Yeah. Nintendo also had "half ownership" (as I've seen it explained - at least partial ownership of rights, perhaps over a limited time period) of the FDS games they distributed. That's probably not at all what it was legally, so think of it this way - Nintendo was given the right to distribute, at one time, all the games for the FDS, since they were the only distributors. Bought a game off a FDS Kiosk? Nintendo put that machine in the store.

The overhead in setting up your own servers - which people would have a great incentive to hack, as a console has much more visibility to the public than a standalone PC program or ringtone download service (also greater potential profits, but those would wash away quite quickly) - added to the risk makes this a most unpopular venture.

As for the encryption deal...passwords are NOT the way to go. The only reason you can buy a standalone PC version of Shinobi III is that Sega can take advantage of the relative security and advanced features of your Windows PC in selling a product in much the way you'd buy something off eBay. Much better than any "security" you can glop-chip into a console. (The big problem is that with Windows, you have to manually take the money, buy fake money with PayPal or move it from your account/card, and THEN you ask their server to let you buy a game. It'll decide it wants to let you. With a console all you need to do is find an account, usually...nobody's naive enough to build such a system that TELLS the servers to do anything, but all the same the number of steps to hack into with the console has been reduced over what it would be on a PC (in real life, though, all you need is one successful eBay scam...). Yes, those are the same problems facing MMOGs, XBox Live, and pretty much any software that requires a registration, and no doubt they'd make it necessary to have a unique registration key, kept safe and snug on a read-only section of their data network. Yet consoles don't use magical versions of the Internet...anybody committed would be able to take their buddy's information, modify the signal going out from their house, and use that to log in. Theoretically, you wouldn't even need to use a console to do that.)

The folks at Infinium Labs are prepared to deal with all of those issues because they see an opportunity to provide new content has been opened with the widespread availability of broadband cable internet connections. The folks at Nintendo aren't prepared to deal with any of that trouble just to provide old content - that people will get if they want it anyway, and play it on an emulator made by people who really care about those old games and who will take years to perfect it.

However, the whole thing stacks up to = stupid, when your overhead is going towards supporting old content that people can get elsewhere, on the cheap, and which you can provide in the form of cartridges or disc media, neither of which have an upkeep fee. They'd have to keep the servers going. Adding classic game downloads to an existing online service ala XBox Live would make sense as an extension, but with Live your money's actually being put to work with the promise of new content and features. A "download old games" service can't do that, and thus the tendency to view such a service as a "money sink" appears. It also would be a money sink if the service didn't let you do other things, such as chat with friends or...play Nintendo games online. Hmm...that's XBox live all over again! We're back to square one, and rereleases win the day.

Omg, that post was WAY too long. Sorry about that. Don't have the time to cut it down to size, though :P

[Jorpho]

Sure, tons of emulators have been made for all of these various systems, but think if Nintendo or Sega or Neo Geo or any of these companies actually made the emulator themselves. With their inside knowledge of exactly how their consoles worked, they could make an absolutely 100 percent flawless emulator of their systems.

Do you think Nintendo would really be able to do a dramatically better job than Nestopia, ZSNES, and other high-quality emulators? After all, the CPUs of the NES and SNES were not custom jobs. I also might add that Silhouette, a Macintosh SNES emulator, was rumored to be a Nintendo product, though I for one have never heard of anyone using it.

As for the Nintendo 64, one word: iQue.

[zmweasel]

Buying a rom for $1-$2? Insane. Maybe $.01-$.02 ($15 for a NES set)

You'd only pay $15 for a legal library of all 700+ NES ROMs? Wow. Or are you referring to a collection of all first-party NES games?

Have you purchased any of the legal anthologies released thus far, or any of Nintendo's GBA re-releases?

-- Z.

[GaijinPunch]

Sega already does this... in Japan anyway. They did it through the Dream Library first (300 yen for 3-day rental of PC-Engine or MegaDrive games). They do it now for some MD games through their emulator, but they charge more than you can get the games for used in a lot of cases.

They're currently (or were anyway) testing MegaCD games as well.

[soniko_karuto]

emulation like that would kick ass.

i mean, the compilation packs.

But i would love them on teh gba, not on the big screen.

[classicb]

Anybody who thinks this is a bad idea should send an email to Apple and ask them how the ITunes thing is working out.

[Flack]

Anybody who thinks this is a bad idea should send an email to Apple and ask them how the ITunes thing is working out.

ITunes emulates old console games? SWEET!

[classicb]

Anybody who thinks this is a bad idea should send an email to Apple and ask them how the ITunes thing is working out.

ITunes emulates old console games? SWEET!

I think you know what I mean. They were able to get people to buy music at a time when most poeple where downloading it for free.

[Ed Oscuro]

Music, for the most part, has timeless appeal. Games become obsolete (that's the impression, anyway).

Yet I'd bet that - if you did a study - you'd find the majority of stuff folks download via iTunes is new stuff.

Another thing is that iTunes is for convenient music listening - it lets you take music with you. I don't see Apple providing a system that lets you play old games with as much convenience.

[Kid Ice]

When I saw that Nintendo was releasing the NES version of Donkey Kong, 3 levels and all, for $20, I thought it was ridiculous. But I've thought about it a little more. It's really kind of cool that they preserved the game exactly the way it was on the NES. Yes, they could have at least put DK Jr. on there as well, but for those of us looking for authenticity, it sure beats junk like Activision Classics that doesn't even emulate old Atari games the right way.

This "emulation community" that Anthony1 speaks of can be divided into 3 groups; the techies who enjoy the challenge of proper emulation, the historians who want to hang on to all the games, and the thieves who enjoy playing lots of games for nothing. I think most of us fall into this 3rd category...some of us may be all 3 in a sense, but it's still mostly about having access to a lot of games at little cost or free.

So really, for Nintendo or anyone else to market something for the "emulation community" would essentially be making concessions to thieves. Therefore, it doesn't seem reasonable for someone to expect to pay only $99 for the entire Nintendo library. It would be sort of like expecting to pay $25 for the entire Beatles library, with the rationale that you can steal it all for free on the internet, so you're not going to pay a lot.

BUT, at the same time, $99 is too much to pay for something you can get for free, however imperfect.

And hey, half the fun of emulation is getting the stuff to work right.