Snes Starfox 2 translated!!!!

[Ze_ro]

For those of you with a modded xbox, starfox 2 plays fine on xsnes version 1. I have played through several times and haven't had a problem.
How about DreamSNES for DC?
I haven't tried it myself, but to my knowledge, none of the SuperFX games ever ran fullspeed in DreamSNES, so I wouldn't hold my breath.




I want an actual cart of this to play on a real SNES. Is it possible?
im halfway there... i got a super wild cart (snes back up unit) so i can play games off a floppy disk....
Will that work with StarFox2? Let me know if you have any luck, if it works I might have to get one :)
Unless his Super Wild Card has a SuperFX chip (and the correct type of SuperFX chip, since there are a couple of them) built into it, that won't work at all.

Someone posted a link to creating a cartridge on the first page of this thread, but the link was broken for me, so I wasn't able to view it. I'm guessing that to actually make your own cartridge, you will definitely have to sacrifice a cart with a SuperFX chip in it. There are at least two different versions of the SuperFX chip out there too (check this site (http://nsrt.edgeemu.com/INFO/chipinfo.htm) for some more info), so you'd have to make sure to sacrifice the correct cartridge, or it won't work. Starfox 1 wouldn't do, but Stunt Race FX might. Anyone have more information about this?

If this alone doesn't bother you, then the next step would be to find someone with an EEPROM burner and get them to burn a copy of StarFox 2 onto ROM chips for you (I don't know which type of chips you'd have to use)... and then you'd have to remove the existing ROM chip(s) from the sacrifice cartridge to put the new ones on. This is another fun part, since the chips are all surface mounted, so unless you're (very) handy with a soldering iron, you'll have a very hard time.

(And no, I can't do this either, so don't ask me to do it for you.)

--Zero

[Aussie2B]

Oh and you'd probably be intrested in knowing he's currently working on Star Ocean: Blue Sphere, just needs a translator. How good did you say your Japanese was AussieB? Prehaps you could quit accusing others of wasting their time on games they love and help translate a game you'd love instead?

Hahaha, you're suggesting I haven't already helped people with Blue Sphere? I got over 250KB written on it, and much more in the works. Just look on GameFAQs. I think it's pretty safe to say that as far as the English-speaking internet goes, I'm been more of a help with Blue Sphere than any other person on the net. If people refuse to use my work just because it hasn't been directing implanted into the game, then they don't deserve my help in the first place. I like helping out the true, hardcore fans who are so interested in the game that they either buy the cart or play the ROM in Japanese, not the fair-weather fans who only care about the game if they can get a patch for it.

I have my doubts that he or anyone will ever do a translation for Blue Sphere because people have been claiming they're working on translations (and getting absolutely nowhere with them) since the game came out in 2001. However, if it does get done, I'll definitely be interested in comparing my translations with the patch. I sure hope that they'd show the creators respect by making an accurate translation true to the original script.

Just as a side note, Blue Sphere is a dungeon-crawler with very little story, yet another Japanese title that doesn't really NEED a translation.

[Aussie2B]

I don't understand what your hostility about translations stems from. So Star Fox 2 doesn't need Japanese knowledge to play. Its still neat to be able to play the game in a form that "might've" been what the game could've been like had it been released. And you don't think translating RPGs is necessary because of walkthroughs? That's absurd, as I'm sure a lot of people would prefer playing anything text heavy like an RPG in a language they understand, instead of having to keep checking a walkthrough next to them every few seconds.

You also seem to think that games are very easy to translate. They are not. Some games (such as Star Fox 2) store their text in compressed formats, making it impossible to hack, unless you can figure out the compression scheme. You should try translating a game yourself, and see how it goes.

You are also apparently a big fan of Tri-Ace. How do you feel about Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean being translated?

Translating RPGs isn't "necessary" in any shape or form, but who could disagree that a patch for a game that has NO English info on the net wouldn't be more hepful than a patch for a game already well-covered with guides. Yet again, I go back to my analogy to writing a guide on FF7.

I never said games are easy to translate. I do translations myself. However, I would say that it's more busywork and tedious repetitive stuff rather than something truly challenging for the mind. Obviously, a tiny amount of dialogue in Star Fox 2 would be much easier and quicker to translate than some kanji-filled strategy or sim game.

As for Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean, I already bought and beat the actual Japanese cartridge of Star Ocean long before the ROM was playable or translated. I used Ian Kelley's wonderful guides at the time. Not only did he translate just about everything in the game long before Dejap, but he also did it BETTER. Saying I have hostility towards translations is ridiculous considering Ian Kelley used to work on fan translations himself, and I love his work. However, the groups he worked with repeatedly mangled his work, adding in tons of their own garbage that was never even contained in the game, so he vowed to never work with a translation group ever again. This is a VERY common thing among translation groups (one person who knows his/her stuff, does all the work, and a bunch of retards who want to toy around with the finished script), and I find it sad that more people aren't informed of this. I mean, you just mentioned the perfect example. Tales of Phantasia was butchered. The patch must've been made by horny, computer nerd teenagers because it's loaded with cursing, sexual innuendos, and tons of other crap that was never in the game. As for Star Ocean, I lost my faith in the translators right from the get-go when they initially made the decision to change Dorn's name to "Don" when not only was he called Dorn by everyone on the net but it says his name IN ENGLISH right in the game. Ridiculous. Thanks goodness people like me who had actually played the game gave them a hard time until they finally changed it back to what it's supposed to be. Unfortunately, a lot of stupid translations didn't get changed or corrected, though. I tried to discuss some of the menu translations with the guy who did them, but he's so stubborn and big-headed that he instantly gets offended and acts as if he could never possibly make a mistake the second someone questions him.

[Daria]

Hahaha, you're suggesting I haven't already helped people with Blue Sphere? I got over 250KB written on it, and much more in the works.

So send him an email.

[badinsults]

Personally, I am glad that translation groups don't ignore non-rpgs. I personally don't have the time or interest to play through every RPG ever released, but a game like Star Fox 2 is a much nicer experience when I don't have to read all the Japanese gibberish. Personally, I would love to see more emphasis on non-rpg translations, for games like Jerry Boy and the Goemon games.

As for complaining about how a group did the translation, I find that the people who put in the countless hours doing it would be very insulted. You remind me of that guy who did the literal translation of Final Fantasy 6, because Ted Woolsey "butchered" the script. Iit is not easy to get a perfectly literal translation into a snes game, as there are space limitations. Plus literal translations usually don't make for a better translation. I haven't tried the FF6 translation, but most people say it is inferior to Ted Woolsey's version. Japanese is a different kind of language than English.


Also, the Star Ocean translation is not complete. The "Dorn" issue was voted on, and I personally voted for the name Don. Don is an English name, Dorn is not, so why not?

[K3V]

Unless his Super Wild Card has a SuperFX chip (and the correct type of SuperFX chip, since there are a couple of them) built into it, that won't work at all.

Someone posted a link to creating a cartridge on the first page of this thread, but the link was broken for me, so I wasn't able to view it. I'm guessing that to actually make your own cartridge, you will definitely have to sacrifice a cart with a SuperFX chip in it. There are at least two different versions of the SuperFX chip out there too (check this site (http://nsrt.edgeemu.com/INFO/chipinfo.htm) for some more info), so you'd have to make sure to sacrifice the correct cartridge, or it won't work. Starfox 1 wouldn't do, but Stunt Race FX might. Anyone have more information about this?

If this alone doesn't bother you, then the next step would be to find someone with an EEPROM burner and get them to burn a copy of StarFox 2 onto ROM chips for you (I don't know which type of chips you'd have to use)... and then you'd have to remove the existing ROM chip(s) from the sacrifice cartridge to put the new ones on. This is another fun part, since the chips are all surface mounted, so unless you're (very) handy with a soldering iron, you'll have a very hard time.

(And no, I can't do this either, so don't ask me to do it for you.)

--Zero

Thanks for the heads-up on the backup unit. The SuperFX chip was my concern, and it looks like that is the big stumbling block for playing SF2.

The build-your-own cart option looks very complex (the link earlier in the thread worked for me). Maybe some enterprising individual will start making some for us :)

-Kevin

[Cauterize]

i havent got round to puttin it onm disk for my super wild card, but now ive read that im disappointed... ah well!

[Kitsune Sniper]

Aussie2B:
It's called -editing-. You know, rewriting. Translations have to be edited for content or space restrictions much of the time. Some of my own work has had to be edited for space. If the translator had issues with the editing, well, that's for him and the editor to take up. Being an English/Spanish translator, I know about such problems.

And about your other point: just because a game's story doesn't need to be translated doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Having a translated story aside a game that you already love just heightens the experience. There's tons of Japanese games that I already played a lot, and when I found out about translation patches, they just made the experience ten times cooler.

By the way, Evan: The "literal" translation of FFVI was a mistake, the authors have already stated that the original patches used a really rough draft of the script, which was much more literal. It was not their original intention to use that, and future versions should fix it.

I'd say more, but I'm really ... disgusted at Aussie2B's take on us.

By the way, please remove the direct links to files and stuff off of Gideon's page, and the direct links to pre-patched roms. In the former, it's not nice. His host doesn't exactly have lots of bandwidth to spare. In the latter, well, we ask that pre-patched roms not be distributed for a reason.

[suppafly]

Thanks for the heads up!!1

I wonder if this game could be played on REAL hardware using one of the SNES flash carts from tototek.com !!!! :o

[Kitsune Sniper]

By the way...


Kitsune Sniper (15:17:59): Is it true that Ian Kelley no longer does fan translations because people kept butchering his work?
Kitsune Sniper (15:18:04): [page 4]
Gideon Zhi (15:27:48): Totally false.
Gideon Zhi (15:28:05): It -is- true that it made him adverse for a while, admittedly
Gideon Zhi (15:28:13): but he's contributed to madou monogatari
Gideon Zhi (15:28:17): (most recently)
Gideon Zhi (15:28:40): as well as having translated assault suits valken, shin megami tensei, shin megami tensei 2, and rockman & forte in their entirety
Gideon Zhi (15:28:48): not to mention liberation army's manual
Kitsune Sniper (15:28:57): So do you want me to post this? Or a rebuttal?
Gideon Zhi (15:29:07): up to you.
Gideon Zhi (15:29:19): incidentally, Ian was actually the first person I had in mind to work on Starfox 2's script.
Gideon Zhi (15:29:52): he also did furai no shiren's script as well.

[Gideon Zhi]

To further extrapolate on a few points...

Regarding Starfox 2 - There are two reasons I elected to work on it. The first is that it was a challenge. It's been nearly two years since I cracked open the initial build of Starfox 2 in a hex editor to see if I could find anything in it that would be editable, and I would like to say that the result of my efforts is a game that would make NoA proud if they weren't busy frothing at the mouth over the mere idea of emulators. The second is because it's a fun game that deserved all the recognition that it could get. I'd like to think that I helped out with that some.

My choice of games has nothing to do with want of fame, and everything to do with stuff I personally find fun to play. If you simply glance at the list of games I have worked on and am working on, you might see a couple of "famous" titles, but by and large they're little unknown gems that're a blast to play.

Further, regarding Ian. He's been going through some incredibly busy times lately; first working on the Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne strategy guide, then as a computer guru at U-Penn during the start of school, then going through some fairly depressing personal issues which I shall not divulge in respect for his privacy. He is currently in the middle of a two-week vacation in Japan (hope he didn't get hit in that typhoon, heh) and will be resuming work for me upon his return. As I mentioned in the conversation with Kit, he has worked on numerous projects for me, including Rockman & Forte, Shin Megami Tensei I and II, Furai no Shiren, Assault Suits Valken, Liberation Army, and Madou Monogatari. He's also done a bunch of work on Majin Tensei, which unfortunately is not going anywhere currently due to messy demon conversation storage, and has agreed to help me with a few other as-yet unannounced projects.

Third, regarding editing. Kit is absolutely correct in his statement that we tend to labour under extremely dense space constraints when working with ROM images. There are things that can be done to circumvent this, nearly all of which involve reprogramming the game's assembly base, but the fact remains that, by and large, we do not have a lot of space to work with. As such, scripts often have to have the fat trimmed from them. Before anyone goes apeshit and screaming about difiling purity and all that bullshit, do you think official versions of the games would have been any different? They may have the original source, but changing game code has never really been a problem for me, and regardless of what you do with the way the game reads its text you still have the same limitations.

Furthermore, a 100% literal translated script is -not- a good thing. It's wooden, lifeless, and often redundant ("Hey, do you know of the Ring of Armageddon?" "The Ring of Armageddon!" "What's the Ring of Armageddon?" "The Ring of Armageddon is...") Again, even official releases of games today are guilty of this, and it absolutely stinks of poor writing and a lack of a firm grasp on the way people interact and conversations work. That said, too much editing is also a bad thing. DeJap's Tales of Phantasia patch is the classic example, although I'm really curious as to how much liberty they really did take with the so-called "boat scene"; rewriting the game's event subcode to make Arche scream out in her dream would take an awful lot of effort that I'm sure Dark Force would not have wanted to spend on it. And I'm not just talking about the text either, mind, I'm talking full-blown sprite animation here :p

But that's a tangent. If you ask me, -good- script editing captures the mood of the game and the author's original intent in the writing while not deviating too far from the original content. My patches for Shin Megami Tensei, SMT II, and Front Mission: Gun Hazard are wonderful examples of excellent editing on the parts of Ian (in the case of SMT I and II) and M (in FMGH.)

On the subject of Blue Sphere, the reason it hasn't gone anywhere is because of a crackhead text storage system that's taking ages to document. Essentially, the game has one global text pointer for all instances of text appearing in a given "scene" (read - a stillscreen of an area.) When the player initiates a conversation in the first screen of Scout Village, for example, the game says "Scout Village, Screen 1" and navigates a complicated maze of subcode telling it where the townie's text is for that particular segment of the game. It's got a billion different commands, but the plus side is that once it's all reverse engineered properly, reinsertion will be an absolute cakewalk.

[suppafly]

I hope you all keep up the good work. Dont get mad with the whiners, there are a lot in all the video game scenes in the internet. If they want to say bad things about your work....tell them to translate the roms themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pedro Lambrini]

In the latter, well, we ask that pre-patched roms not be distributed for a reason.

Sorry to seem stupid but what is the reason for not distributing patched ROMs? If people distribute the original ROM and the patch what is the problem with carrying the patched ROM as well? I don't mean to be rude or facetious, I'm just curious. :)

[Gideon Zhi]

The basic reason is that it's an even more blatant copyright violation (i.e. publication of a derivative worK) than simply distributing the original game.

[Pedro Lambrini]

The basic reason is that it's an even more blatant copyright violation (i.e. publication of a derivative worK) than simply distributing the original game.

Ah, I see. And you think that the owners of the copyrights might come down on you if you are blatantly messing with their property. See, it makes sense when you know what your talking about! :) Thanks, bloke!

[hydr0x]

The basic reason is that it's an even more blatant copyright violation (i.e. publication of a derivative worK) than simply distributing the original game.

first, welcome to the board (you too Kit), seems like the emu/translation and the collectors scene are approaching each other recently...

2nd, yeah, absolutely right, i dont understand why there are even sites that host prepatched roms, there's just no use for it, cowering should remove those from the goodsnes set, well, everyone should use nsrt anyways (and i'm totally not biased here LOL :evil: )

actually i dont understand why dp hosts roms at all, there are plenty of sources for roms, why add semi-legal/illegal stuff to this wonderful site, i dont get it...

[Azazel]

Aussie2B:
It's called -editing-. You know, rewriting. Translations have to be edited for content or space restrictions much of the time. Some of my own work has had to be edited for space. If the translator had issues with the editing, well, that's for him and the editor to take up. Being an English/Spanish translator, I know about such problems.

And about your other point: just because a game's story doesn't need to be translated doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Having a translated story aside a game that you already love just heightens the experience. There's tons of Japanese games that I already played a lot, and when I found out about translation patches, they just made the experience ten times cooler.

By the way, Evan: The "literal" translation of FFVI was a mistake, the authors have already stated that the original patches used a really rough draft of the script, which was much more literal. It was not their original intention to use that, and future versions should fix it.

I'd say more, but I'm really ... disgusted at Aussie2B's take on us.

By the way, please remove the direct links to files and stuff off of Gideon's page, and the direct links to pre-patched roms. In the former, it's not nice. His host doesn't exactly have lots of bandwidth to spare. In the latter, well, we ask that pre-patched roms not be distributed for a reason.

I'll mostly agree with the editing part. The only things I don't like is when groups put in pointless swearing where it's really isn't needed or necessary. Commercially translated games can be just as bad about changing stuff. Look at Working Designs and a lot of that stuff they add or change, not to mention the pointless jokes they throw in that have nothing to do with the game.

From what I remember for the FF6 translation they just redid the first 25% which supposedly wasn't as good translation wise. I played further than that in the patch and it's really not much better when you get further into the game. I've talked to oter people and they msotly agree with me. Unless there going to completely redo there entire transaltion I'll have to disagree with your point.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'll mostly agree with the editing part. The only things I don't like is when groups put in pointless swearing where it's really isn't needed or necessary. Commercially translated games can be just as bad about changing stuff. Look at Working Designs and a lot of that stuff they add or change, not to mention the pointless jokes they throw in that have nothing to do with the game.

From what I remember for the FF6 translation they just redid the first 25% which supposedly wasn't as good translation wise. I played further than that in the patch and it's really not much better when you get further into the game. I've talked to oter people and they msotly agree with me. Unless there going to completely redo there entire transaltion I'll have to disagree with your point.

The FFVI translation isn't completely polished. The entire rewriting isn't fully done yet. So of course the game will seem weird after a certain point. Give them time.

Admittedly, US companies have a habit of rewriting and adding stupid, useless stuff to their translations, videogame or otherwise. Have you ever seen a US dub of a foreign movie, or a Japanese animation? But often, it's needed. Japanese is often very stale, plain and dry in how it says things. Try conveying something that is a common saying in the source language, but not in English. We have to look for equivalent phrases, or even rewrite everything if we have to. It's not something we like to do, but it has to be done. Well, not always. I've seen US versions of shows like Duel Masters, One Piece and Shaman King. Makes me want to kill the people that rewrote the scripts from the original translations and get real writers.

In regards to Working Designs, I think they originally did this so people could get into the story. Remember, before RPGs were mainstream, people would get bored if the story had a certain tone... adding these references helped the players identify with the game's world, and helped them get into it. I've heard of some of these editings that WD has done, but I've never played their games, so I can't give an accurate opinion of them. One other thing... how do you know that the game didn't have the swearing to begin with? Japanese have a habit of swearing about everything. To us it may seem like too much, but to them it's normal. "Kuso" is the all-purpose swear word over there, and it's said quite a bit all around. So writers have to get creative when they translate the script. They can't just say "Damn! My toast is burned!" or "Damn! My car just died!" or "Damn! The world just ended!"

*shrugs*

[Azazel]

I don't watch anime or that many foreign films for it to be an issue for me. I do know about some of the changes that they make.

As for the swearing part I'm more just talking about when a group adds in swearing when it's not in the original version and it really has no place in the game. I think Dejap and J2E were generally the worst for this. I've looked at a fair amout of games that got commercially or fan translated cause I was interested in what was really changed in the translation and editing process. I know Japanese so I know what is beening said. If it's in the original game that is one things but just adding swearing for no good reason is stupid and pointless. You can have good sounding script without these needless additions and changes. One example I like to use is DW3 where the NES was localized in the ye old english and the GBC were not and the GBC ones sounded much better. You can even use the 2 RPGONE patches as a lesser example.

[Daria]

One example I like to use is DW3 where the NES was localized in the ye old english and the GBC were not and the GBC ones sounded much better. You can even use the 2 RPGONE patches as a lesser example.

1. Dragon Warrior 3 doesn't use "Olde English" that was Dragon Warrior.

2. That's a completely subjective statement. Who are you to say that the GBC method is "better" simply because you prefered it that way? I could just as easily argue that the NES version is better because I like it. So what the hell, I will. The GBC version was bland. Boring. Dragon Warrior while revolutionary, was an exceptionally straight foward and simple game. Thank God someone in the US cared enough about the game to try and spruce it up a bit. And why are the "Art Thou's" so bad anyway? The game's set in a traditional medieval fairy tale era. It's not like the language doesn't fit.

3. Roto vs. Erdrick. 'Nuff said.

And my biggest complaint about people who bitch about translations is what's the big fucking deal? There is no such thing as a straight english to Japanese conversion. Any translation is an interpretation, and working designs, dejap, AGTP, J2E, Atlus etc's take on a game script is always going to be different then yours.

At least the game is in english, and better yet at least it was translated by someone who cares about the quality of final product regardless if you personally like the way they did it. When I play a WD game I get the feeling the people who translated the game loved doing so, so fucking what if a NPC townie spouts off weaties slogans and bad puns? Did that single line of dialouge effect the tension between Jessica and Kyle? Make Luna any less sympathetic a character? Make Alex's love and desire to protect Luna any less believable?

You want to see a bad Lunar translation play Lunar Legends. And by bad I don't mean inaccurate because it's nothing if not faithful to the Japanese script. No, by bad I mean Ubisoft completely raped Lunar of any and all emotional depth. Translations aren't about lingustical mathematics. They're about capturing the feeling and details of the orginal story in your own words.

Besides what good does nit picking someone else's hard work do you?

[Jasoco]

God, don't remind me of the name changes in Erdrick and the Dragon Lord's names. It pisses me off when they do this.

[Aussie2B]

*sigh* I truly wonder why it's perfectly acceptable to criticize a game or company, even in an immature way, without people so much as making a single comment on the criticism, yet the VERY SECOND anyone makes a comment that's in the slightest way negative towards a fan translation or the group that made it the fan translation fanboys get so deeply offended and instantly go into "Defend the translation! Worship the translating gods!" mode. They start the whole "Oh, who are you to criticize their hard work?" thing, but I guarantee you that the actual creators of the games spent more time and worked harder than the fan translators. Why is it okay to insult their work but not the work of the fan translators? It's all the same.

Really, I didn't even *make* a negative remark. I didn't criticize the translation OR the people behind it. It was simply a mild passing comment about there being games that need a translation much more than a shooter would, which was a reaction to all the people who acted as if they couldn't play the game previously just because a little bit of insignificant dialogue was in Japanese. It's my opinion, deal with it. Everyone could have chosen to ignore it.

However, I appreciate Gideon Zhi's mature response. That's interesting to hear that Ian Kelley is helping with translation projects again. I can't claim to be buddies with the guy; I'm just a fan of his work. Seems like he's been keeping a low profile in the last year or so, what with his site disappearing and being focused almost exclusively on the MegaTen community. Last time I saw him around on a message board he was saying everything I said previously. He seemed very upset with how his work had been handled, and he said he would only do translations in the future as private projects for his own amusement. Any idea what changed his mind? Well, whatever the case may be I hope everyone he works with shows his work more respect than the people he worked with in the past.

By the way, I hear this "Roto vs. Erdrick" thing a lot, and frankly, I find it a complete joke. Do people really think they're making an actual point when they try to suggest the absolute superiority of "Erdrick" over "R/Loto"? If the situation was reversed (that is, if Japan got "Erdrick" and the US got "R/Loto"), I GUARANTEE you that MOST Americans would prefer the latter and make jokes about how stupid "Erdrick" sounds. It's a basic psychology concept. People like what they're familiar with and what's nostalgic to them. It's the same reason why I'll never get used to the name changes they made in the US version of Star Ocean 3 (because I played the Japanese version long before it), and it's the reason why I still prefer "Princess Toadstool" over "Peach". I know why I feel that way, so I'm not about to suggest that "Peach" is oh-so-stupid a name. However, I do believe that it's best to just stick with the original Japanese names for US releases. It avoids a lot of conflict and confusion, not to mention it shows respect to the original creators who intended the character to have so-and-so name. If in both Dragon Quest and Dragon Warrior the character was named "R/Loto", I don't think anybody would be complaining, and arguments about which name is better wouldn't even exist.

[Daria]

By the way, I hear this "Roto vs. Erdrick" thing a lot, and frankly, I find it a complete joke. Do people really think they're making an actual point when they try to suggest the absolute superiority of "Erdrick" over "R/Loto"? If the situation was reversed (that is, if Japan got "Erdrick" and the US got "R/Loto"), I GUARANTEE you that MOST Americans would prefer the latter and make jokes about how stupid "Erdrick" sounds. It's a basic psychology concept.

Bullshit.

Roto Router is a terrible name in ANY language. And I'm sorry Princess Laura? Sounds like a children's television show host. Gwendalein is an obvious take on Gwenavier and is fitting, again given Dragon Warrior's medieval setting.

Insults aside, Roto's a very Japanese name in a very Western RPG setting. It doeasn't fit, not to add it's confusing to start a series with one group of names and suddenly switch to another, literal version. Besides Roto wouldn't seem the least bit out of place to me if the game took place in Asia. With samurai's and such.

At least that's my opinion, and I have a perfect right to it. I"m sure you have some pet peeves that just bother you regarding Tri-Ace games. This is just one of mine.

<---- DW fangirl. :P

At least I'm not bitching about the slight variation between Dorn and Don. :roll:

[Castelak]

Wow... it's not like changing things in a RPG is equivalent to changing words in the Bible. O_O

[Aussie2B]

Roto Router is a terrible name in ANY language. And I'm sorry Princess Laura? Sounds like a children's television show host. Gwendalein is an obvious take on Gwenavier and is fitting, again given Dragon Warrior's medieval setting.

So how about Princess Sara from Final Fantasy? Have you no complaints on that one? Perhaps if the situation was reversed, you'd be one of the few that prefer the Japanese name "Erdrick", but I guarantee you'd be in the minority. It's like all these people saying the name "Peppita" is so much better than "Souffle" in Star Ocean 3. They're both ridiculous names, they both invoke images of food, and if "Souffle" was kept for both versions, there'd be no complaints (except for a few, but ANY name will get complaints from somebody).


Insults aside, Roto's a very Japanese name in a very Western RPG setting. It doeasn't fit, not to add it's confusing to start a series with one group of names and suddenly switch to another, literal version. Besides Roto wouldn't seem the least bit out of place to me if the game took place in Asia. With samurai's and such.

I don't see "Roto" as a Japanese name at all (and especially not the other translation as "Loto"). I mean, the name "Ami" can be a Japanese name, but it's just as common to see it as a French, English, American, etc. name. It's not like his name is Matsui or Nobuteru or something. :/ It's not CLEARLY Japanese; it's just capable of being Japanese. I see it simply as a made up fantasy name no different than all the millions of others used in RPGs, which are perfectly accepted by Americans. Take out the olde English and Dragon Warrior is no more medieval and fantasy-ish than your average fantasy RPG where made up weird names are common.


At least that's my opinion, and I have a perfect right to it. I"m sure you have some pet peeves that just bother you regarding Tri-Ace games. This is just one of mine.

<---- DW fangirl. :P

At least I'm not bitching about the slight variation between Dorn and Don. :roll:

Nobody's saying you're not entitled to your opinion. However, I'm entitled to my own as well without the hounds being set loose. And as for the "Dorn/Don" thing, "Dorn" was the original name spelled in English. It's the name the developers chose for the character; "Don" is not. I believe it's a lot more important to respect the original creators' work than it is to complain when the original localizers changed something for no reason and the company later realized the "mistake" and changed it to be accurate. How do you feel about "Peach", "Eggman", and all the other changes over the years? Do you despise them too and talk about how much the older, changed names were so much better?

[Azazel]

One example I like to use is DW3 where the NES was localized in the ye old english and the GBC were not and the GBC ones sounded much better. You can even use the 2 RPGONE patches as a lesser example.

1. Dragon Warrior 3 doesn't use "Olde English" that was Dragon Warrior.

2. That's a completely subjective statement. Who are you to say that the GBC method is "better" simply because you prefered it that way? I could just as easily argue that the NES version is better because I like it. So what the hell, I will. The GBC version was bland. Boring. Dragon Warrior while revolutionary, was an exceptionally straight foward and simple game. Thank God someone in the US cared enough about the game to try and spruce it up a bit. And why are the "Art Thou's" so bad anyway? The game's set in a traditional medieval fairy tale era. It's not like the language doesn't fit.

3. Roto vs. Erdrick. 'Nuff said.

And my biggest complaint about people who bitch about translations is what's the big fucking deal? There is no such thing as a straight english to Japanese conversion. Any translation is an interpretation, and working designs, dejap, AGTP, J2E, Atlus etc's take on a game script is always going to be different then yours.

At least the game is in english, and better yet at least it was translated by someone who cares about the quality of final product regardless if you personally like the way they did it. When I play a WD game I get the feeling the people who translated the game loved doing so, so fucking what if a NPC townie spouts off weaties slogans and bad puns? Did that single line of dialouge effect the tension between Jessica and Kyle? Make Luna any less sympathetic a character? Make Alex's love and desire to protect Luna any less believable?

You want to see a bad Lunar translation play Lunar Legends. And by bad I don't mean inaccurate because it's nothing if not faithful to the Japanese script. No, by bad I mean Ubisoft completely raped Lunar of any and all emotional depth. Translations aren't about lingustical mathematics. They're about capturing the feeling and details of the orginal story in your own words.

Besides what good does nit picking someone else's hard work do you?

Actually a fair amount of games translated back in the NES weren't that good as compared to games translated on future systems. I'm glad the first 3 DQ games got ported to the GBC and got translated and released in the US. While the translation isn't a big improvement it's still better than what he got for the NES version. For the same reason why are the thou arts so good as there really not. As I've said you can have great sounding script without those though art and that kind of stuff.

Again you make no good point on the Roto versus Endrick. Roto is a fine sounding name. not great by any means but it is fine. I really don't care much for the name changes that go on but do understand some names will be changed for a US name. If your going to change a name at least make it better or more natural sounding, not think up a name that is worse sounding and just as unnatural. I've only once met a perosn who perfers Endrick or think it's much better sounding name.

The only group I really have an issue with is WD. While some fan translated group put in swearing for no good reason, minor changes cause of lack of space it really doesn't bother me much. WD has no respect for the original makers for the game and story they wrote for it. They change tons of things for no reason including stuff that is non towny dialogue. If I wrote a story and someone was going to translate my work I would at least like the translator to have repect for my story and not make needless changes cause they feel like it or have the power to do it. I realize this is a concept you can't understand as your the biggest WD I've ever run across sadly. I'm sorry I don't kiss there ass like you do. As for the GBA games there's nothing wrong with it. It's bland game to begin with which as nothing to do with the translation. I'm sorry who ever translated it didn't make up a lot of useless crap up which seems is what you like. Not all games have a lot of emotion in the story to begin with especially back in the 8 and 16 bit days.

I really don't have much issues with the fan translations. They for the most part do a really good and can do a much better job than WD ever could and they have many more limitations, no source code, there not beening paid etc.

[badinsults]

I can't believe so many people get worked up over swear words. I mean, they are just words. It isn't like the rpg characters are taking their swords and viciously killing them in a very graphic manner.

[Daria]

Actually a fair amount of games translated back in the NES weren't that good as compared to games translated on future systems.

Ummm... no shit? I realize most NES translations were genaric or downright engrish-ized. However I the particular game I was discussing, Dragon Warrior, was not one of them.


I'm glad the first 3 DQ games got ported to the GBC and got translated and released in the US.

Me too. If only I could have had a portable DW4, then everything would have been perfect.


While the translation isn't a big improvement it's still better than what he got for the NES version.

Agreed. Except in the case of DW1 and the name names Erdick and Gwendelien. But I also realize as horrid as I think the orginal names are, the GBC versions couldn't fit names that long. So Loto and Laura they stayed.


For the same reason why are the thou arts so good as there really not. As I've said you can have great sounding script without those though art and that kind of stuff.

Well of course it's not neccasary to have them, but back in the day I felt it was a very creative and effective method to again, adding style to an otherwise simple RPG. I wouldn't have Dragon Warrior 1 any other way. (except on car trips where I'll begrudgingly have to make due). :P


Again you make no good point on the Roto versus Endrick. Roto is a fine sounding name. not great by any means but it is fine. I really don't care much for the name changes that go on but do understand some names will be changed for a US name. If your going to change a name at least make it better or more natural sounding, not think up a name that is worse sounding and just as unnatural. I've only once met a perosn who perfers Endrick or think it's much better sounding name.

I'd like to see a kid named Loto. Yeah fine sounding name indeed. Lobo's a fine name at that to. Just as short, gutteral, and harsh. Erdrick (not Endrick) I feel is a more nautural sounding, creative name. Rolls off the tounge. Kinda reminds me of Elric from the Strombringer saga. Could you imagine the tragic death bringing albino prince named Lobo? Maybe I'm just silly but some names just sound a little more "epic" to me.


The only group I really have an issue with is WD. While some fan translated group put in swearing for no good reason, minor changes cause of lack of space it really doesn't bother me much. WD has no respect for the original makers for the game and story they wrote for it. They change tons of things for no reason including stuff that is non towny dialogue.

See now there's where I disagree. Working Designs doesn't be funny just to be funny. Lunar's orginal script includes most if not all the humerous dialgoue between the characters. This is evident by playing Ubisoft's game, where they tell the same jokes and proceed to butcher them, and by playing Grandia another Game Arts title translated by Sony which includes similar banter. The only real changes Working Designs makes is to the townies who didn't particuarily have anything intresting to say in the first place. Or they had jokes of their own that wouldn't make sense outside a Japaense context.

See Lunar's already a very flippant game. I don't see how WD choosing to add their mark destroys the intergity of the game or pays any disrespect to the original authors whom obviously have a sense of humour of their own.

If you want to see a WD title handled in a somber and serious manner play Alundra. The script is a perfect accent to the depressing plot.


If I wrote a story and someone was going to translate my work I would at least like the translator to have repect for my story and not make needless changes cause they feel like it or have the power to do it.

I just think WD does have immense respect for these titles, or they wouldn't bother to translate them in the first place.



I realize this is a concept you can't understand as your the biggest WD I've ever run across sadly.

I'll assume you ment fangirl, but thank you. I apprecite scripts that are well written. I guess by that definition I would aslo be an ATLUS fangirl.


I'm sorry I don't kiss there ass like you do. As for the GBA games there's nothing wrong with it. It's bland game to begin with which as nothing to do with the translation.

Actually it's not a bland game to begin with. That's kind of the point.


I'm sorry who ever translated it didn't make up a lot of useless crap up which seems is what you like. Not all games have a lot of emotion in the story to begin with especially back in the 8 and 16 bit days.

No they didn't and being a SEGA CD title with a lot of disc space, Lunar was the first of it's kind. And what I didn't like about Ubisoft's take on the game had nothing to do with the changes to the townie's dialouge, which I believe I've said I didn't mind. Not minding is not the same as saying I prefer it. What really rubed me the wrong way with Ubisoft's version was the way they had transformed Luna into a complete bitch. For example there's a convervastion bewteen Nall, Nash, and Luna that goes something like this:

Nash: "I think we should go this way."
Nall: "Why?"
Luna: "Would you two quit arguing?!"

Wow, way to start screaming at your friends without being provoked.


I really don't have much issues with the fan translations. They for the most part do a really good and can do a much better job than WD ever could and they have many more limitations, no source code, there not beening paid etc.

I like fan translations too. Yay!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aussie2B: I have yet to play Final Fantasy 1, so I wouldn't assume that I'd have no problem with the name. Actually just because I didn't sit down and make a list of all the RPG characters with weird names that rub me the wrong way doesn't make me a hypocrite.

You know who else has an unnfortunate name? Uranus, the heroine from Demon Slayer Revolations. But I have no idea if that's her Japanese name as well.


Take out the olde English and Dragon Warrior is no more medieval and fantasy-ish than your average fantasy RPG where made up weird names are common.

Dragon Warrior is the stereo-typical tale about a knight setting off to rescue a princess and battle dragons. I don't see how you coulds get anymore fairy-tale medieval then that. O.o


How do you feel about "Peach", "Eggman", and all the other changes over the years? Do you despise them too and talk about how much the older, changed names were so much better?

I'm not a sonic fan but yeah I do think Dr. Robotnick was a cooler sounding name then "Eggman" but you know maybe the way the Japanese pronouce the words that mean Eggman sounds cooler in their language.

Peach... peach is an alright name. I was just partial to Toadstool because it was such an "ugly" name but it fit the princess so well. I guess because it was so unique? I'll always think of her as Princess Toadstool but it doesn't bother me to say play Paper Mario and see the name Peach.

Now Princess Daisy on the other hand strikes me as silly as the name Princess Laura. But then Mario games are suppose to be silly.

[Jasoco]

I agree with Daria. ERDRICK is the name we GREW UP WITH. People didn't make fun of the name back then, why the fuck would they now? And Dracolord? What the fuck is that? I want the original names in the game I grew up with, not some bastardized Americanized versions. I was really disappointed with the GBC version. I wish they'd release an NES Classic of the original with the names intact. It's the only RPG I can enjoy. (Aside from Super Mario and any RPG with Mario.)

[SoulBlazer]

Another example of a serious and somber WD game script -- Arc the Lad 1 and 2. God, those games are depressing. Good, but it's very serious. Arc 3 has more humor, though.

[Azazel]

Actually a fair amount of games translated back in the NES weren't that good as compared to games translated on future systems.

Ummm... no shit? I realize most NES translations were genaric or downright engrish-ized. However I the particular game I was discussing, Dragon Warrior, was not one of them.


I'm glad the first 3 DQ games got ported to the GBC and got translated and released in the US.

Me too. If only I could have had a portable DW4, then everything would have been perfect.


While the translation isn't a big improvement it's still better than what he got for the NES version.

Agreed. Except in the case of DW1 and the name names Erdick and Gwendelien. But I also realize as horrid as I think the orginal names are, the GBC versions couldn't fit names that long. So Loto and Laura they stayed.


For the same reason why are the thou arts so good as there really not. As I've said you can have great sounding script without those though art and that kind of stuff.

Well of course it's not neccasary to have them, but back in the day I felt it was a very creative and effective method to again, adding style to an otherwise simple RPG. I wouldn't have Dragon Warrior 1 any other way. (except on car trips where I'll begrudgingly have to make due). :P


Again you make no good point on the Roto versus Endrick. Roto is a fine sounding name. not great by any means but it is fine. I really don't care much for the name changes that go on but do understand some names will be changed for a US name. If your going to change a name at least make it better or more natural sounding, not think up a name that is worse sounding and just as unnatural. I've only once met a perosn who perfers Endrick or think it's much better sounding name.

I'd like to see a kid named Loto. Yeah fine sounding name indeed. Lobo's a fine name at that to. Just as short, gutteral, and harsh. Erdrick (not Endrick) I feel is a more nautural sounding, creative name. Rolls off the tounge. Kinda reminds me of Elric from the Strombringer saga. Could you imagine the tragic death bringing albino prince named Lobo? Maybe I'm just silly but some names just sound a little more "epic" to me.


The only group I really have an issue with is WD. While some fan translated group put in swearing for no good reason, minor changes cause of lack of space it really doesn't bother me much. WD has no respect for the original makers for the game and story they wrote for it. They change tons of things for no reason including stuff that is non towny dialogue.

See now there's where I disagree. Working Designs doesn't be funny just to be funny. Lunar's orginal script includes most if not all the humerous dialgoue between the characters. This is evident by playing Ubisoft's game, where they tell the same jokes and proceed to butcher them, and by playing Grandia another Game Arts title translated by Sony which includes similar banter. The only real changes Working Designs makes is to the townies who didn't particuarily have anything intresting to say in the first place. Or they had jokes of their own that wouldn't make sense outside a Japaense context.

See Lunar's already a very flippant game. I don't see how WD choosing to add their mark destroys the intergity of the game or pays any disrespect to the original authors whom obviously have a sense of humour of their own.

If you want to see a WD title handled in a somber and serious manner play Alundra. The script is a perfect accent to the depressing plot.


If I wrote a story and someone was going to translate my work I would at least like the translator to have repect for my story and not make needless changes cause they feel like it or have the power to do it.

I just think WD does have immense respect for these titles, or they wouldn't bother to translate them in the first place.



I realize this is a concept you can't understand as your the biggest WD I've ever run across sadly.

I'll assume you ment fangirl, but thank you. I apprecite scripts that are well written. I guess by that definition I would aslo be an ATLUS fangirl.


I'm sorry I don't kiss there ass like you do. As for the GBA games there's nothing wrong with it. It's bland game to begin with which as nothing to do with the translation.

Actually it's not a bland game to begin with. That's kind of the point.


I'm sorry who ever translated it didn't make up a lot of useless crap up which seems is what you like. Not all games have a lot of emotion in the story to begin with especially back in the 8 and 16 bit days.

No they didn't and being a SEGA CD title with a lot of disc space, Lunar was the first of it's kind. And what I didn't like about Ubisoft's take on the game had nothing to do with the changes to the townie's dialouge, which I believe I've said I didn't mind. Not minding is not the same as saying I prefer it. What really rubed me the wrong way with Ubisoft's version was the way they had transformed Luna into a complete bitch. For example there's a convervastion bewteen Nall, Nash, and Luna that goes something like this:

Nash: "I think we should go this way."
Nall: "Why?"
Luna: "Would you two quit arguing?!"

Wow, way to start screaming at your friends without being provoked.


I really don't have much issues with the fan translations. They for the most part do a really good and can do a much better job than WD ever could and they have many more limitations, no source code, there not beening paid etc.

I like fan translations too. Yay!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aussie2B: I have yet to play Final Fantasy 1, so I wouldn't assume that I'd have no problem with the name. Actually just because I didn't sit down and make a list of all the RPG characters with weird names that rub me the wrong way doesn't make me a hypocrite.

You know who else has an unnfortunate name? Uranus, the heroine from Demon Slayer Revolations. But I have no idea if that's her Japanese name as well.


Take out the olde English and Dragon Warrior is no more medieval and fantasy-ish than your average fantasy RPG where made up weird names are common.

Dragon Warrior is the stereo-typical tale about a knight setting off to rescue a princess and battle dragons. I don't see how you coulds get anymore fairy-tale medieval then that. O.o


How do you feel about "Peach", "Eggman", and all the other changes over the years? Do you despise them too and talk about how much the older, changed names were so much better?

I'm not a sonic fan but yeah I do think Dr. Robotnick was a cooler sounding name then "Eggman" but you know maybe the way the Japanese pronouce the words that mean Eggman sounds cooler in their language.

Peach... peach is an alright name. I was just partial to Toadstool because it was such an "ugly" name but it fit the princess so well. I guess because it was so unique? I'll always think of her as Princess Toadstool but it doesn't bother me to say play Paper Mario and see the name Peach.

Now Princess Daisy on the other hand strikes me as silly as the name Princess Laura. But then Mario games are suppose to be silly.

Actaully the Game Boy version could fit the names if they wanted to. The only kind of limited things on names from what I remember is any of the characters in the random battles was limited to 4 characters. A few of the names they even made longer for the US releases like Ryan/Ragnar in DQ4.

Actually there were one or 2 games or shows that had a Loto. I think Voltron might of been one but I can't remember if that one guys name had an r at the end or not. It didn't really seem weird or strange back than although I have no idea if they changed name for the US version.

Unless you know Japanese how do you really know what really gets changed in a US release? I could make up all kind of stuff and unless someone knows the original story no one else is going to know the difference. I've played some of Atlus and Ubisoft games and there translations and localizations seem much better to me compared to WD.

[Daria]

Unless you know Japanese how do you really know what really gets changed in a US release?

I think I pretty much answered this already but here goes: When you've played two versions of the same game translated by two different companies and the dialouge mean's the same but is worded differently then is has to either be that way originally or it's plagurism.

I may not care for Ubisoft but I doubt they're theives.