did 3D kill the arcades?

[dethink]

this came up as a result of a discussion about the new king of fighters: MI commercial "making fun of 2D" over at NG.com; that 3D somehow "killed" SNK.

i would argue that 3D is partially responsible for the slump in the arcade business altogether.

let's face it - video games are a visual medium. when i was a kid, there was no way to get something that paralelled the visual splendor of something like the sega system 16 games of the mid 80's. games like outrun, after burner, etc. simply weren't possible to duplicate on the home systems of the day. the arcades offered an experience that wasn't possible on home consoles.

when was the last time you played a truly great, inventive 3D arcade game? for me, it was crazy taxi, and prior to that 2D still pretty much ruled the roost in the arcades in the late 90's...you had your daytona USA and sega rally machines, but there were still plenty of 2D games still in regular use. once 3D and all the associated dev costs that went along with it took hold, most of the arcades here closed up. i can't imagine how much a new machine like say...F355 challenge costs vs. how much it has to be played to make a return. and to make a return, the price of a single play is obviously much higher than your typical JAMMA cab 2D fighter. i still remember when games cost a quarter...i was reluctant to spend my hard earned allowance money on games that cost 0.50, but it became the norm in the early 90's once things like the fancy CPS hardware became the norm (SF2 era).

as a well paid adult, i'm even more reluctant to plop $2.00 into an arcade machine for 60 seconds of spinning into the grass (or whatever). by the time i even got remotely proficient at the game, i could have bought the home version.

i could keep going on, but i'm at work so i'll chime in again later...

discuss for now. ;)

[Nez]

What I think killed arcades is the exreemly rapid grific evolution of the home console.
Back when the PSX and N64 were out arcades were alive and kicking. But as soon as the DC came out I noticed a decine.
Now with Xbox Gamecube and Pc games looking incredibly more realistic, most people would rather stay home and play. Rather then drive 10 miles and pay .50 a pop.

That and all the Perfect arcade conversions on current gen systems.

[Oobgarm]

What I think killed arcades is the extremely rapid graphic evolution of the home console.

Winnah!

No doubt in my mind that's what did them in. Plus, there really aren't that many games(outside of fighters, bemani, and driving games) that suit themselves well to an arcade cab these days.

Although I bet that today you could start your own arcade filled with lots of games (mostly classic ones), and you'll be making decent money.

[Cryomancer]

I'd say the best thing arcade still has is the advantage of having a machine with a large / complex dedicated controller.

Sometimes I think that a sitdown MMO arcade game would be a decent idea, just charge by the hour or something. Each place gets two or three or more units depending on it's demand, and so on. Make it well enclosed with a good sound setup and maybe even feedback for ingame functions and i'd be very immersive. There's obviously problems with the idea but it would provide a fairly unique experience that you couldn't quite take home.

[dethink]

I'd say the best thing arcade still has is the advantage of having a machine with a large / complex dedicated controller.

i agree - look at the first couple games i mentioned, both had elaborate (for the day) dedicated cabinets or specialized sitdown ones.

the one big arcade we have here now is full of driving games, DDR and DDR-esque games, etc. - all things that require a dedicated cabinet/control scheme. the other handful of games are a couple 30-in-one cabinets with old 2D games, a single slot MVS with bust-a-move, a fair number of pinball machines, and the standby MvsC2/CvsSNK fighters.

we also have disneyquest, which as evil as it sounds, is retrogaming heaven if you want to spend all day there - for $25 you get in, and they have an entire room full of PERFECTLY restored classic early 80's arcade games.

[mycarsucks]

aaaaaaaaaaa

[Flack]

My opinions of what killed arcades:

01 - The advance of home gaming consoles.

As a kid, I remember thinking that no home gaming system could EVER surpass the power of an arcade cabinet (I mean, c'mon, look how BIG they were! ;) ). Who could have ever imagined a day where arcade games run on modified home console hardware? Not I. As a kid, I wanted to hang out at arcades because they had "better games". Now, it's rarely the case.

02 - Inflation.

The rising costs of rent and arcade games led to an increase in prices. When games were a quarter I would pump quarters in like there was no tomorrow. Now that they're 50 cents (and often more) I rarely play. Dropping a quarter into a game is nothing, dropping a buck over and over into a game can actually eat into your budget!

03 - Social Changes

I thought of two things that are kind of related ... one is basically, the Internet. I think a lot of kids these days have social issues and basically don't like to hang out with people. These are the same kids that spend all their time on the Internet and little to no time in the real world. They have more friends "online" than in the real world. As a kid, I rarely went to arcades alone -- it was usually me and my boys, playing Gauntlet or Karate Champ or whatever. We enjoyed it together. So I think when you give kids who don't like other people a choice between staying home and gaming online (or by themselves) or going to a public arcade and having to interact with other people, they're going to choose staying home.

04 - Arcades' "Bad Rap"

Where kids hang out, there's going to be trouble (at least in parent's eyes!). Smoking, drinking, drugs, whatever. I think in the late 80's especially a lot of arcades got a "bad rap" as bad places, just because the bad kids hung out there, even though the good kids hung out there as well! This is part of what changed the arcades from places lit by monitors and neon lights to bright, fun party houses. Blech. When arcades were a place where kids wanted to hang out and parents didn't like, they were more popular. When they turned into brightly lit fun houses where the nerd on the corner wants to have his kid's birthday party ... forget about it.

Anyway, that's my opinions. If I could do anything in the world it would be open an arcade, but all the research I've done says it's a losing bet.

[tritium]

In my areas arcades are being replaced by internet cafe's with half-life and counter strike and whatever shooter de jour.

There's still one arcade left nearby. Within a five mile radius of my home, there is 1 arcade and about 5 internet cafes.

-Tritium

[Hovoc]

In my areas arcades are being replaced by internet cafe's with half-life and counter strike and whatever shooter de jour.

There's still one arcade left nearby. Within a five mile radius of my home, there is 1 arcade and about 5 internet cafes.

-Tritium

its sad, the "new arcades" are basically inet cafes with computers and consoles, rent to play type deals.

although it is tempting to get into that kinda business....

[Arcade Antics]

the arcade business model just wasn't viable anymore because:


1) the advent of home gaming started to rival arcade games in terms of graphics and game play.

2) the arcade business yielded low margins and there was no potential for growth beyond catering to kids and their quarters.


imho, of course. :)

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

These two points sum up the reason 99% of arcades closed down, but the second point is more responsible than the first.

3D had nothing to do with it.

Once coin-ops started getting more and more complicated (beginning with the Daytona era - linking several cars together, etc.), the local "mom and pop" arcade owners couldn't keep up. They only have so much money to spend on new machines, and as they got more and more and MORE expensive, the small owners went kaput. Even now, the only arcades you see are Gameworks and... Gameworks. And stuff at parks like Disneyland.

Of course, the coin-ops started getting more complex at least in part to distinguish them from gaming at home (i.e., "what can I get in the arcade that I can't get at home?"), which at least graphically, was getting ever closer to the arcade stuff.

[Rugal]

No, it is trying to kill 2D (KOF:MI is an example) by turning all the 2D fighters into 3D ones.

[Hovoc]

Even now, the only arcades you see are Gameworks and... Gameworks. And stuff at parks like Disneyland.



and places like puttputt, or bars, or such places where there are other kinds of services that bring in more income than arcade games

[SoulBlazer]

It amazes me that every time I go into my local Dave and Busters the arcade potion of it is PACKED. There HAS to be a reason for that, when they only have a couple of 80's machines (Ms Pac-Man/Galaga and Space Invaders/Klax) and probaly about 50 machines all together. I just have'nt figured it out.

It could be due to the same reason I go in -- to do more then one thing. I play games, I eat, I have a drink, and I play pool. And almost always I have someone with me.

And being in a HUGE mall, I go there for other reasons as well, like to watch a IMAX film or go shopping.

So on top of everything said above, I think arcades can do well even today if they have certain things going for them. I just have'nt figured out what those 'things' are. LOL

[mycarsucks]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa

[mycarsucks]

aaaaaaaa

[Push Upstairs]

As previously mentioned, rising costs.

I can remember back when the arcade near was was *FULL* of game machines...barely enough room to get in the front half of the place. Today its kinda bare as only the walls are lined with machines now.

And I hardly ever play an arcade game because I don't like wasting $.75-$1 to play for like 3 minutes.

[Hovoc]

And I hardly ever play an arcade game because I don't like wasting $.75-$1 to play for like 3 minutes.


what games do you play?

only things i play in the arcade are warzaid, area 51, and daytona, all thigns that i cant do at home.

me and my gf go up to puttputt and drop quite a few bucks each into daytona to race @ 1$ per 8 laps.

i see no p[roblem with that, or .50 to play warzaid or area 51, or similar games

[Habeeb Hamusta]

I think 3D games have a lot to do with it, but mostly I think it's just the lack of motivation by people to get out to the arcades. Flat out, preople are lazy. They would much rather just buy a game and play it on their home system, rather than getting out and going to the arcade.

3D games are the new craze now. Arcades will buy whatever attracts the kids. Today's teens and kids have been brought up in a 3D gaming world. So they want to play 3D games, and the fact that these kids can buy their own copies of these games doesn't give them the motivation to go to the arcade and run through a pocket full of quarters trying to beat it. They just get their parents to hand them the cash and buy the game. But now, the arcades are getting pretty lame. It's all the same 3D games which are boring to 2D gamers so now they don't have anything to motivate them to go. Kinda in a stale mate. :(

[Push Upstairs]

I don't recall the last game i actually played.

But when i do scope out an arcade i've usually got maybe a dollar or two in my wallet (I use a cash card instead of carrying cash anymore).

But holding two bucks and seeing how i might get two shots at a game makes me keep on walking.

[Hovoc]

I don't recall the last game i actually played.

But when i do scope out an arcade i've usually got maybe a dollar or two in my wallet (I use a cash card instead of carrying cash anymore).

But holding two bucks and seeing how i might get two shots at a game makes me keep on walking.


well you have a few choices here sparky

1. get a better job, or if oyu have a great job, dont bitch about paying 2$ for a couple of games

2. carry more cash

3. learn not to suck at games

4. dont bitch


this lesson is free :D

[bargora]

I ran across an inflation calculator and discovered that a 1983 quarter translates into $0.45 today (well 2003, anyway). Conversely, $0.25 today has the same purchasing power that $0.14 had in 1983.

So I guess I can't feel too badly shafted if the operator of a Ms. Pac/Galago combo cabinet sets the price at $0.50. And it's easy to dump a quarter into a video game these days because it's only worth fourteen cents.

[downfall]

It amazes me that every time I go into my local Dave and Busters the arcade potion of it is PACKED. There HAS to be a reason for that, when they only have a couple of 80's machines (Ms Pac-Man/Galaga and Space Invaders/Klax) and probaly about 50 machines all together. I just have'nt figured it out.

It could be due to the same reason I go in -- to do more then one thing. I play games, I eat, I have a drink, and I play pool. And almost always I have someone with me.

And being in a HUGE mall, I go there for other reasons as well, like to watch a IMAX film or go shopping.

So on top of everything said above, I think arcades can do well even today if they have certain things going for them. I just have'nt figured out what those 'things' are. LOL\

I think you answered your own question! I seem to remember a similar discussion in a previous topic, but basically, that the only arcades that are successful today are successful because of their location.

How many stand-alone arcades do you know of? I can think of zero.

That's the reason places like Chucky Cheese, Billy Bob's, and such do well, and that's also the reason that you can find an arcade in most any mall you go to anywhere. Arcades can no longer survive as the main attraction - but they are successful as an alternative to shopping, eating, etc.

[Kroogah]

No, it is trying to kill 2D (KOF:MI is an example) by turning all the 2D fighters into 3D ones.

KOF:MI is a console game.

Also, if arcades really killed 2D, the Hyper Neo Geo 64 would have replaced all the MVS cabinets in arcades everywhere, and Street Fighter EX and Rival Schools would be the most popular Capcom fighting games.

[Push Upstairs]

4. dont bitch

If my discontent for rising costs to feed overly elaborate gimmick arcade games rubs you the wrong way, tough.

Until i can find an arcade that isnt packed full of DDR knock-offs, 10,000 "scope" games, or Capcom vs SNK 29...i'm not going to waste my money in an arcade.


I'm not going to apologise for liking the games i like and not wishing to waste $10 on games i dont so i can "not suck" at them. :roll:

[Hovoc]

4. dont bitch

If my discontent for rising costs to feed overly elaborate gimmick arcade games rubs you the wrong way, tough.

Until i can find an arcade that isnt packed full of DDR knock-offs, 10,000 "scope" games, or Capcom vs SNK 29...i'm not going to waste my money in an arcade.


I'm not going to apologise for liking the games i like and not wishing to waste $10 on games i dont so i can "not suck" at them. :roll:


hrm, so youd rather spend your money on consoles with resident evil 37 or smb 278?

please note said consoles, which are now more home entertainment centers than game consoles, new, cost $300+ and have a handful of decent games?


do you also happen to venture out into public and go to movies? do you pay $8 for a ticket for the same movie thats been rehashed NUMEROUS times before?


such is life

if you dont wanna play CvS 29, then dont, im sure the local arcade establishment would love to have your feed back

[-hellvin-]

I think graphic enhancement is a factor, but not as much as inflation. That is the #1 factor IMHO. Who want's to pay over a dollar just so they can play some blah arcade machine with a gimmick?

[Hovoc]

I think graphic enhancement is a factor, but not as much as inflation. That is the #1 factor IMHO. Who want's to pay over a dollar just so they can play some blah arcade machine with a gimmick?

it amazes me

really it does

people would pay 50-100 for a 2600 and some games, but not .50-1.00$ to play an arcade game?

boggles the mind

[Daria]

I think graphic enhancement is a factor, but not as much as inflation. That is the #1 factor IMHO. Who want's to pay over a dollar just so they can play some blah arcade machine with a gimmick?

it amazes me

really it does

people would pay 50-100 for a 2600 and some games, but not .50-1.00$ to play an arcade game?

boggles the mind

Yeah $50 to play a game indefinately, or $1 to play a game for 5-10minutes. Hmm... descions, descions.

[Hovoc]

I think graphic enhancement is a factor, but not as much as inflation. That is the #1 factor IMHO. Who want's to pay over a dollar just so they can play some blah arcade machine with a gimmick?

it amazes me

really it does

people would pay 50-100 for a 2600 and some games, but not .50-1.00$ to play an arcade game?

boggles the mind

Yeah $50 to play a game indefinately, or $1 to play a game for 5-10minutes. Hmm... descions, descions.



50 for a game that i may tired of easily, and upon trying to resell or trade in, am told that its worth half of what i paid for 2 weeks ago.....

[Daria]

I think graphic enhancement is a factor, but not as much as inflation. That is the #1 factor IMHO. Who want's to pay over a dollar just so they can play some blah arcade machine with a gimmick?

it amazes me

really it does

people would pay 50-100 for a 2600 and some games, but not .50-1.00$ to play an arcade game?

boggles the mind

Yeah $50 to play a game indefinately, or $1 to play a game for 5-10minutes. Hmm... descions, descions.



50 for a game that i may tired of easily, and upon trying to resell or trade in, am told that its worth half of what i paid for 2 weeks ago.....

Then arcades are right up your alley. Personally I don't buy game I tire of and resell.

[Ze_ro]

My opinions of what killed arcades:

01 - The advance of home gaming consoles.
While I sort of agree with this point, I would blame the arcade manufacturers before the console manufacturers. The companies making arcade games should have realized the accelleration of the console market, and planned accordingly. They didn't, so they became extinct. Metaphorically, they stuck with traditional film while the rest of the world was embracing digital cameras.

It also didn't help that a lot of the arcade manufacturers (ie, Sega) reused the same hardware in consoles, made their own perfect ports of arcade games, and often added new features into them... Did none of them ever stop to think that they were killing the whole idea of the arcade in the process?


Now that they're 50 cents (and often more) I rarely play.
I have to agree with this too. I used to love pinball, but when all the machines jumped to 50 cents, I immediately stopped playing and never looked back. At a lot of the local arcades a lot of the games were as much as a dollar (Notably Daytona USA), which is far too much. Add in the fact that the arcade operators around here routinely crank things to the highest difficulty to keep the line moving, and you're essentially paying $1 for less than 3 minutes on average. I can think of much better uses of my money.

--Zero

[YoshiM]

So Havoc, do you actually OWN a home game system? Yes? A current gen system? What's the price to pay to make a home game purchase "okay" by your standards? No matter how you slice it you're calling up a "pot calling kettle black" situation. Also, "sparky", has it occurred to you that you can rent console games? Most major rental places rent games anywhere from $3 to $6 for a night to a week.

Personally, the arcades don't have much that make it worth $.75 to $1 to play. Yeah I might find something decent but to "get good" at it, as Havoc puts it, will cost more money than I'm willing to spend to practice. And I'm not really strapped for cash either, it's just I value my time and my dollar more than playing an expensive arcade game. For the same amount of cash I pay into a Time Crisis 3 machine to get maybe 10 minutes worth of entertainment I can probably go to a movie or have a decent dinner at Applebees.

But that's my outlook and my values. Not right or wrong, just how it is.

Back on topic: I don't think 3D graphics aren't the reason as arcades were producing them before home systems could. Like others said the home console got more complicated. You could have almost the same experience at home (game play wise) as you do in the arcade and in some cases BETTER (see Soul Calibur for Dreamcast). Arcades no longer offered something unique to draw players, which is why many arcades (at least in my area) have the "specialty" interfaces like guns, soccer balls, etc.