ESRB Enforcement

[bargora]

So I dropped in to the local Gamestop to gawk a bit. Still gotta get Gradius V and R-Type Final. I know, I know.

Anyway, some ten-year-old-looking kid comes up to the counter wanting one of the GTA games. The clerk asks whether there's an adult present with him, and momma comes up. The clerk tells her all about what sorts of great stuff the game has to offer. She doesn't look too fazed about the "graphic violence" and "extreme gore", but she wasn't too keen on the "drug use" and "prostitution". (Meanwhile, ten-year-old kid is starting to get really excited.) Momma decides she's gonna have to think that one over. Kid starts jumping around trying to think of ways to convince momma. I chuckle and go home (no money in the budget for games just then).

So are you shoppers seeing ESRB guidelines enforced in your neighborhoods? Just curious.

[Habeeb Hamusta]

The other day me and a friend were in EB and we saw something of the nature, just flipped around. There was this 12 year old girl wanting to buy THUG 2 and the mom was asking the clerk what kind of violence or cursing was in the game. He said there were one or two words that were used but nothing extreme. The mom wouldn't let her kid have it which is common but c'mon; the girl was 12 years old! I could have understood if it was GTA. But a Tony Hawk game?

[Cmosfm]

Well, a lot of larger chain stores ask for your birthday when purchasing an M or R rated game or movie. Wal-Mart, Target, etc.

As for smaller chain stores, not really, haven't noticed it but I believe they do have some kind of guidelines. I'm glad to see that stores are beginning to crack down on this, because believe me, I don't want a 10 year old son/brother/cousin of mine playing Vice City or San Andreas.

[Oobgarm]

So are you shoppers seeing ESRB guidelines enforced in your neighborhoods? Just curious.

Absolutely.

I've been witness to it at Meijer and other local grocery 'superstores' like Bigg's, and I've personally enforced it at Gamestop. If the customer doesn't look old enough, ask for ID for anything rated M. If the kid is small, gotta have a parent appove that T rated game. I think it's wonderful to see people enforcing it and others taking it into consideration when purchasing games.

Of course, I do get a laugh out of parents who are being a bit over-protective....like not letting their 11-12 year old child play Super Smash Bros. Melee since it's rated T. "You're not a teenager yet" they say, as if it were some rite of passage. :)

[evilmess]

I'm a parent of a 13 year old boy and have had both Gamecrazy and Gamestop get my permission for games that he buys. In fact a few months back we bought a used loose Conkers Bad Fur Day and the Gamecrazy employee wanted to make sure we had a clue about the content in the game before we made the purchase.

I've also had my son come to me and tell me he needs me or my wife to be with him when he trades in games or is wanting to purchase an M rated game.

[postulio]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

[rbudrick]

Of course, I do get a laugh out of parents who are being a bit over-protective....like not letting their 11-12 year old child play Super Smash Bros. Melee since it's rated T. "You're not a teenager yet" they say, as if it were some rite of passage.

Reminds me of when I was younger and knew this kid who I felt really sorry for. His parents were total yuppie asswipes and wouldn't even let thier kids eat (ever) any kids cereals. Health food only. Skim Milk only. No junk food ever.

Parents like that are asking for their kids to turn into drug dealing mafia pimps and crackheads who smuggle contraband, and er, stuff. ;)

-Rob

[Ed Oscuro]

Thought on hippie cereals...when you're a kid you can't be on a diet. Anybody who's thinking about putting youngsters on a fat-free diet...you're affecting brain development, so cut that crazy talk.

Now that I'm 20, though, I'm much happier that I eat lots of mostly healthy stuff. :)

As for games...last few times I was at GameStop (I keep wanting to call it Babbage's :( so long old friend...) I've had kids ask me if I've got an ID. OK, silly kid, that's gonna get me in trouble...plus you should be reading something, not playing a violent video game.

It helps to remember how scared I was of lots of things when I was little. Now, playing through DOOM III and the like it seems I'm not so easily repulsed by stuff, but when I was little I might've responded differently to things. So there's a balance to be found...let kids know there's "bad" things out there, but don't let them sit down with it alone for a while.

[thehistorian]

i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

I take it you are not a parent. I'm not worried about the violence causing my children to commit violence. I'm worried that they are forced to grow up before they should.

Innocence lost can never be recovered.

By purchasing these for the children what are you teaching them?

That rules can be broken?

That anything they want, they can have?

I ask that you think beyond yourself, and think of the ripples in the pond you create by throwing these boulders in...

[Cmosfm]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

:roll:

How many more idiodic posts do you have to make before you pack your shit and head back over to Gamefaqs?

[tynstar]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

:roll:

How many more idiodic posts do you have to make before you pack your shit and head back over to Gamefaqs?

I agree!

When I worked at GameStop I would enforce the ESRB. I would tell parents the reason the game got the rating. I loved it when parents would tell little Johnny they can't have the game. :evil:

[YoshiM]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

Okay, so basically you play the role of a good samaritan by using little Johnny's cash to buy him that new GTA San Andreas game, right? What does the ESRB and THE KID'S PARENTS know, right? Clueless morons, right?

Did you ever consider the crapstorms you may have unleashed by these generous acts?

-The parents want to monitor and control what Johnny plays, like any parent should. Johnny comes home with the game and they have a fit. Grounds Johnny and possibly (depending on the parent) goes back to the store to both return the game AND bitch out the person who sold the game to you ("What, I didn't sell this game to any kid") which may cause the employee to be reprimanded (warning or suspended) or worse (possible termination-not likely but still a possibility).

-Johnny is really excitable and tends to soak up stimulae like a sponge. After playing GTA for a while, he starts calling the girls at schools "hos" or "bitches" and tells a teacher to go "F" himself. "Where'd you learn to say that Johnny?" a teacher asks. "From a game." See above scenario but increase the scale as other parents will probably hear about this and start an even bigger storm.

I can think of a bunch of post-purchase scenarios from the possible to the illogical extreme. I can also think of stuff that could happen at the store (some parent sees you talk to Johnny, take his money and then buy the game and confronts you, possibly causing problems for you at that particular store).

The point is: who are you to judge what a child that isn't yours should be exposed to? Would you buy porn for a child if they are denied? What, it's total BS and they should see whatever they want to see, right?

[SoulBlazer]

My local EB has been doing this for years. I often hear the clerks tell parents what a game has, making sure they understand, etc.

[Simply Dave]

I was at my local EB a few weeks ago at the time where a bunch of people were putting in pre-orders for GTA:SA and it was interesting that the clerks were taking the money from all the kids pre-ordering the game but telling them that their Mom or Dad would have to be with them on the day they pick the game up.

[Lady Jaye]

But the deposit is non-refundable, right? If that's the case, then it'd be the same as if they actually did sell the game to the kid despite the ESRB rating...

[SoulBlazer]

No, depoists can be refunded -- in store credit only, though.

[izret101]

I just use my permit as my liscence. I am still not old enough by ESRB standards but it was never a problem for me anywhere. Only 2 times at Circuit City.
I have been in EB GameCrazy, Circuit City Toys R Us, Walmart, and just about everystore that sells games around here and only that 2 times i was questioned.
I guess it is pretty good that these rules get enforced somehow though.

[slip81]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

You're making a big mistake by doing that dude. You have no right to determine what a kid who is not yours can or cannot play. If you want to give your own 10 year old San Andreas and possibly warp him, that's fine. But don't go around acting like you're doing the world a favor by giving the youths of the neighborhood access to games with extremely bad content in them.

[Spartacus]

So you need you're mommy or daddy's permission to buy a video game, but you don't to have an abortion. Yeah, Okay. x_x

[Ed Oscuro]

Helps when daddy got you pregnant ;)

I'm not a big fan of the special-case reasoning for abortion, since we've seen the slippery slope at work for the last fifty years, but still, that argument holds up in this case.

[eightbitonline]

just yesterday i was in a zellers (canadian version of wal-mart) and this 10-year old asks to get into the display case to see GTA: san andreas. the clerk let him into the cabinet to see it, check out the back of the box, screenshots, etc. but told him if he wanted to buy it he'd have to bring a parent with him.

i think even letting him see it is kind of a no-no. these kids are supposed to be getting the impression that some video games are ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR KIDS and they're, so far, not buying that argument. making sure that the rules stay fast and firm is the only way for kids, and parents who can't even imagine how crass games like GTA are, will start taking the ESRB ratings seriously.

[kainemaxwell]

At TRU the M rated games were behind the counter, I think, and ID was always asked.

[Duncan]

At Target, they're all locked up (except for cheaper stuff, and most of the M-rated games in that category sell out before they hit the value rack anyway). And yes, the register does require the cashier to input a date of birth before adding any M-rated game to a transaction. (It even asks on pre-orders for M-rated games.)

However -- there's an easy bypass you can use to get around this age requirement. Just press Enter. :) (Can't believe it's that simple, but it is.) And I've used the bypass many times, simply to speed up the transaction.

Of course, I always use my best discretion. The usual scenarios:

1) Kid (of any age) with parents in tow. So long as the parents are aware that the game is M- or T-rated, and so long as they're cool with that, then by all means Game On. I'll also explain the content by using the handy reminders on the back of the box, and (if I know the game well enough) I'll give an idea of whether or not any of that is exaggerated.

2) Kid (of any age) without parents who insists that they'll be along soon. Again, I'm fine with that, but I'll hold the game at the counter until the parents arrive and can be informed about the content.

3) Kid (12-16 or so) without parents. This is touchier, but I have certain criteria. If they're not jumping up and down like a toddler when I unlock the case, they earn a point. If they don't specifically ask "do I have to have my mom/dad here to buy this?", another point. If they're not toting around a much younger and more easily influenced brother/sister, one more point. If I saw the parents earlier and they didn't have a problem with the kid looking at games on his/her own, yet another point. Bottom line, you've got to have at least three points in your favor in this category or I'm not selling you the game. It also depends on what game we're talking about -- GTA or Manhunt are both pretty much a no-go for anyone who looks younger than 14 as far as I'm concerned. Most shooters are the same way, depending on bloodiness and content. (For instance, I have less problem selling the unrealistic Halo to a younger kid than something like a gory Resident Evil.)

4) Kid (obviously under 12) without parents. No way you're getting anything with an M-rating, and you'll have to show me marked intelligence before you even get away with a T-rating.

Yeah, it's still pretty much a subjective thing. But I've been doing this long enough to know whether or not I'm making the right decisions, and I haven't had any complaints.

[Flack]

I got carded at Wal-Mart when I bought the Indiana Jones box set on launch day. Keep in mind that I'm 30 and look even older due to all the gray hair. When the clerk rang it up the register came up and said "Check ID", which she did. I doubt that any of the Wal-Marts around here are selling adult games to kids.

[izret101]

I know sometimes clerks do it to bust peoples balls. My grandfather got carded by a gas station clerk to by cigarrets. After showing his liscense they gave them to him and when he was walking out they started laughing as soon as the door closed.
A guy i know who works at a smaller shop does the same thing he cards everyone who buys a M game. He uses the excuses that it is store policy but i know he does it becuase he likes to irritate people.

[Spartacus]

All the major retail stores in my area seem to take the ESRB ratings seriously. But I have never seen anyone asked for proof of age while buying a money order. Nor have I ever been asked for proof of age buying from Ebay, DP members, flea markets, pawn shops, Goodwill, or any online retailer.

[Cmosfm]

I got carded at Wal-Mart when I bought the Indiana Jones box set on launch day. Keep in mind that I'm 30 and look even older due to all the gray hair. When the clerk rang it up the register came up and said "Check ID", which she did. I doubt that any of the Wal-Marts around here are selling adult games to kids.

This similarly has happened to me. Note that I am 21 and I look, dress and act much older than that.

I was in Wal-Mart once, purchasing Resident Evil 0, I have the clerk get it out from behind the glass case. He's an older guy, probably about 50ish, anyways I get up to the counter and get my wallet out. I pull out my store credit card, it has my name on it and my store name. I hand him the card and he says "I need to see ID".

Uh Oh, my ID is in the car, I always leave it in the car because I've never been carded for a thing!

So I say "I'm sorry, it's in the car, and I am already running a bit late for work. Then I pull out 3 credit cards, a debit card, a check book, and a few rental cards and show them all to him. I tell him that if I was under 18, I wouldn't have all this. Not to mention my store name is on my card. There was no one else in line, btw, so no hurry.

He STILL won't let me get by, he says I HAVE to go to my car and get my ID or I can't buy it. I'm pretty pissed, and I want the game, and I want to be able to use the partial credit on my gift card...so I go to the car and get the ID. I don't say anything, but I was late for work.

There are some exceptions where you can pretty much tell that a person is over 18, some employees just get off on being assholes.

:/

[Cmosfm]

]All the major retail stores in my area seem to take the ESRB ratings seriously. But I have never seen anyone asked for proof of age while buying a money order.

That's because you are just transferring your money to a money order. You are not buying something that requires you to be of age to purchase. A money order can be used for anything from paying Boy Scout fees to purchasing pornography. It's not the post office's job to ask what you plan to do with a money order.


Nor have I ever been asked for proof of age buying from DP members, flea markets, pawn shops

These are all second hand dealers, they personally don't care who you are and it is not illegal to sell them to you. Yes, it is immoral, but for the most part they do not care.


Goodwill

You know good as I do that the people working at Goodwill have no clue what they are doing anyways.


Ebay or any online retailer.

Thing is with eBay and other online retail stores is, you usually have to have a credit card to pay, which you have to be 18 to have, or you have to sign an agreement saying that you are 18 or older. It's the page that you click "I Agree" on and never bother reading. They assume that every person purchasing from them is 18 or older. This saves them from legal trouble if an underage person is buying an M game, an R movie, or eve pornography or other questionable material.

A store will card you because it's the correct thing to do, if I owned a game store I'd card every person that looked underage myself. It saves you from the angry parents who will not shop at your store anymore once you sell there kids a M game, and it keeps you out of any legal trouble.

I've spent way too much time in this thread today. :(

[Dahne]

Oh, man...This reminds me of when I was young, back when I'd first gotten a Playstation. I saw Vandal Hearts at the rental place and had a full-fledged moral dilemma over whether or not I should get it. LOL

I ended up leaving it.

Then, years later, I pick it up and realize that the horrendous, terrfying content I had sidestepped was...spouts of cartoon blood and the word "damn." :)

[DigitalSpace]

I'm 22, and pretty much look my age, and I've only been carded once when purchasing an M-rated game, when I bought a used GC version of Bloodrayne at a local Gamestop. When I bought GTA: SA at Best Buy, I'm pretty sure they were more focused towards offering me magazine subscriptions. LOL

But when it comes to kids, I've seen employees enforcing the ESRB and making sure parents are there with the kid and know what's in the game, etc.

Funny story: I was at a local Walgreens waiting in the checkout line, and all of a sudden I hear an old lady up front cursing out the cashier before she walked out of the store. It turned out that the cashier wouldn't sell her cigarettes because she didn't have her ID. The lady looked to be in her sixties. LOL

[sirgeoph]

The company I work for cards every kid. We've had far too many pissed off parents come back and bitch at us for selling an M rated game to a kid. Just recently a guy assumed a kid was old enough and sold him Diablo II for the PC. He assumed wrong and the mom raised hell and vowed never to shop there again.

That's why game stores card.

On a related note, I got carded for spray paint at Wal-Mart the other day, but not for the uncensored Ren & Stimpy box set I was buying at the same time. Which brings me to another point: music in Wal-Mart is censored, but games and movies aren't. Wal-Mart's crazy.

[Gapporin]

Which brings me to another point: music in Wal-Mart is censored, but games and movies aren't. Wal-Mart's crazy.

That's probably because games and movies aren't usually released in a censored format. I don't think it's anything that Wal-Mart can control.

[sirgeoph]

The music sold to Wal-Mart is censored for Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart sells a very large percentage of all CDs sold yearly, so record labels do what they can to make Wal-Mart happy.

But why is it okay to watch a movie where there's visuals of sex, drugs, and violence, or play a video game where you can do all of that, but it's not okay to hear a curse word or hear an artist talk about killing someone or having sex with someone or smoking weed? It's the same thing, but a different medium.

But now Wal-Mart is moving up in the game sales in the country (I don't remember the exact numbers, but they sell a large perecentage of all games now), so, could we see Wal-Mart-friendly games in the future?

[bargora]

could we see Wal-Mart-friendly games in the future?
Grand Theft Auto: Peoria
Mission 1: Double park like a mofo

[jdc]

Having ESRB ratings is a waste of time. They do absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Why?

Because you CAN'T enforce them in their entirety in order to gain the desired outcomes.

I worked in the industry....and it was the struggle of trying to make sure that the ESRB guidelines were being followed that caused me to walk away. Enforcing the ESRB guidelines is like smashing your head against a brick wall.

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas is released. The hype machine is cranked to fever pitch. 10 yr old Timmy HAS to play this game. He goes to the local game shop. They won't sell it to him because of some stupid ESRB ratings. So he goes to Blockbuster Video. They won't rent it to him because of some stupid ESRB ratings.

That's okay. Timmy doesn't give a shit about the ESRB ratings. Big brother just bought the game......his friend's older brother just rented it......and grandma's so naive that she'll buy it for him for Christmas no sweat.

This goes on EVERY day. So much for your ESRB protection.

[sisko]

i see it now and then and i everytime i saw a kid denied for a game at gamestop (about 4 or so times now) i caught up with him outside and offered to buy him the game if he gave me the cash. (they agreed, of course)


i think its all BS and they should play whatever they wanna play. my kids could play whatever they want. you gotta be retarded to go kill people cause of a game/movie. in which case nothing can help you.

Okay, so basically you play the role of a good samaritan by using little Johnny's cash to buy him that new GTA San Andreas game, right? What does the ESRB and THE KID'S PARENTS know, right? Clueless morons, right?

Did you ever consider the crapstorms you may have unleashed by these generous acts?

-The parents want to monitor and control what Johnny plays, like any parent should. Johnny comes home with the game and they have a fit. Grounds Johnny and possibly (depending on the parent) goes back to the store to both return the game AND bitch out the person who sold the game to you ("What, I didn't sell this game to any kid") which may cause the employee to be reprimanded (warning or suspended) or worse (possible termination-not likely but still a possibility).

-Johnny is really excitable and tends to soak up stimulae like a sponge. After playing GTA for a while, he starts calling the girls at schools "hos" or "bitches" and tells a teacher to go "F" himself. "Where'd you learn to say that Johnny?" a teacher asks. "From a game." See above scenario but increase the scale as other parents will probably hear about this and start an even bigger storm.

I can think of a bunch of post-purchase scenarios from the possible to the illogical extreme. I can also think of stuff that could happen at the store (some parent sees you talk to Johnny, take his money and then buy the game and confronts you, possibly causing problems for you at that particular store).

The point is: who are you to judge what a child that isn't yours should be exposed to? Would you buy porn for a child if they are denied? What, it's total BS and they should see whatever they want to see, right?

I agree with this whole heartedly.

Apparantly, the ESRB is more of a suggestion. Stores are encouraged to check ID, but it isn't required. According to the manager at my local EB, owever, a law will be enacted that makes it illegal to sell a minor and M-rated game starting in January.

Personally, I'd laugh my ass off if I saw postulio here get arrested and/or fined up the wazoo for selling games to minors.

[YoshiM]

Having ESRB ratings is a waste of time. They do absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Why?

Because you CAN'T enforce them in their entirety in order to gain the desired outcomes.

I worked in the industry....and it was the struggle of trying to make sure that the ESRB guidelines were being followed that caused me to walk away. Enforcing the ESRB guidelines is like smashing your head against a brick wall.

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas is released. The hype machine is cranked to fever pitch. 10 yr old Timmy HAS to play this game. He goes to the local game shop. They won't sell it to him because of some stupid ESRB ratings. So he goes to Blockbuster Video. They won't rent it to him because of some stupid ESRB ratings.

That's okay. Timmy doesn't give a shit about the ESRB ratings. Big brother just bought the game......his friend's older brother just rented it......and grandma's so naive that she'll buy it for him for Christmas no sweat.

This goes on EVERY day. So much for your ESRB protection.

This same scenario happens with R rated movies, music with explicit lyrics, porn (soft or hard), cigarettes, beer, etc. and so forth. Or how about the acquisition of money? The laws don't work because people still steal, launder, counterfeit, sell illegal substances to get money. So should we just not have policies/laws in place for all this stuff because they are a "waste of time. They do absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things."?

The ESRB is a set of guidelines. The stores follow the guidelines to inform the parent (hopefully) and to (again hopefully) have something to fall back on to refuse the sale of questionable material to minors. It's a policy, no unlike a store's return policy, that can be pointed to and say "I can't sell you this game because this says so." Because the ratings are nationwide, it makes it all the more difficult (again, hopefully) for kids to try and skirt around it when something is that widely known and in black-and-white ("Mommy, they won't sell me that cool game because they're jerks." "No ma'am, I won't sell it to your son because of this policy"). It also informs the parents what the "bad" contents are in the game.

So the store enforces the ESRB and doesn't sell Johnny the game. That's all they can do. If Johnny's older brother Timmy can get it or Grandma Tilly buys it for him, then it's no longer in the hands of the retailer but in the hands of Johnny's parents. Any parent worth their salt (and cares) would at least know what Johnny is interested in or know what Timmy is into that may be a "bad influence" to Johnny and would lay down rules accordingly. If Mommy sees GTA sitting on Timmy's TV, she'll see the rating. If she's around when Timmy or Johnny are playing it, the death screams and swearing would hopefully set off klaxxons in her head if such material is deemed unsuitable.

The ESRB isn't the end-all, be-all solution but it's a tool. Just because a kid could circumvent it doesn't mean it doesn't have merit or shouldn't be enforced (if for anything to protect the stores).

[thehistorian]

I think we need these Rating, however the ESRB is flawed. Studies show that the Parents agree to the ERSB's rating system, yet other studies show that the game ratings are not as accurate as they could be.

Parents are trusting a flawed system. This will sometimes happen with self-regulated systems. Even the Movie industry has a problem with "Ratings Slip".

[jdc]

Yes...all true. But the ESRB guidelines are a tool that ISN'T necessarily being used by the end-user. It WOULD be different if you had parents who said "why thankyou. I guess that my child won't be playing that game after all." What you usually get is " I'll decide what my child can or cannot play, thankyou. We'll take the game."

How many parents are aware...or even bother to find out A) what their child IS playing up in his room and B) what the content of each game title IS?

You CAN'T enforce ESRB guidelines other than at the cash register. Who cares who actually purchases it? It's who's playing it that counts. The ESRB can't control that.

[Cmosfm]

Yes...all true. But the ESRB guidelines are a tool that ISN'T necessarily being used by the end-user. It WOULD be different if you had parents who said "why thankyou. I guess that my child won't be playing that game after all." What you usually get is " I'll decide what my child can or cannot play, thankyou. We'll take the game."

How many parents are aware...or even bother to find out A) what their child IS playing up in his room and B) what the content of each game title IS?

You CAN'T enforce ESRB guidelines other than at the cash register. Who cares who actually purchases it? It's who's playing it that counts. The ESRB can't control that.

No they can't control who plays the games, but that's NOT what they are doing. The ESRB guidelines and ratings are there to inform parents what there kids are buying, and if the parents feel this is OK for there kids to have than they can buy it for them. There has never been an instance, ever, where a parent with a 10 year old was NOT allowed to buy GTA for them.

The rules are to inform, not to keep them out of kids hands. Same with R Rated movies. Now there are different things for cigarettes, drugs, porn, etc....those are called LAWS, not rules, now kids can get ahold of these if they want, yes, but the laws make it pretty hard for them to do so. Then you have the cases where parents stupidly buy these for there children...those are called "bad parents".

Maybe the system is flawed, but it's doing the job pretty well, and saying that it's pointless is as stupid as saying that speed limits are pointless. Oh well, no one's gonna stop em from speeding if they want to right? Why should there be speed limits. While we're at it, let's just abolish gun laws, I mean, hell...I can buy a gun from my cousin if I want and I dont need a background check! Why do we need laws! Fuck the laws, I can get what I need from cousin jethro!

I believe your opinions are more flawed than the ESRB guidelines. When you have children or a younger sibling that you actually CARE about you will understand more. Until then, you just wont understand, and there's really no need to try to make you, because you'll still have your flawed and foolish way of thinking.

[sirgeoph]

Uh-oh...I see where this is going...

[Oobgarm]

Yes...all true. But the ESRB guidelines are a tool that ISN'T necessarily being used by the end-user. It WOULD be different if you had parents who said "why thankyou. I guess that my child won't be playing that game after all." What you usually get is " I'll decide what my child can or cannot play, thankyou. We'll take the game."

How many parents are aware...or even bother to find out A) what their child IS playing up in his room and B) what the content of each game title IS?

You CAN'T enforce ESRB guidelines other than at the cash register. Who cares who actually purchases it? It's who's playing it that counts. The ESRB can't control that.

You've got to be kidding me.

Things are different now than they were when we all grew up (generalizing that we're all 18-27 here). Games are much more prominent in today's society, so GUIDELINES need to be set forth. There is nothing saying that the ESRB is the bulwark when it comes to kids playing games. That's up to the parents. No one ever said that the ESRB ratings were such, and I have no idea why you make it sound like they are. They aren't there to enforce, they're there to INFORM. The desired result is a more educated game buying populace.

So then, you wonder, why stores won't sell it to kids without their parents knowing? Because no one has been informed on the subject matter of the game. Kids don't give a rat's ass what the game is about, if 'everyone else' is playing it or whatever, they want to take part. Someone who makes their decisions for them needs to know what's up. Most 15-16 year olds aren't out on their own, their parents still provide for them, so why can't they be involved in the decision making process?

Of course you're always going to have the people who don't care. That happens with EVERYTHING. It's those folks that make this kind of thing important. It's still a new thing to many people, unlike the MPAA ratings, which have been in effect for quite some time. Not everyone knows what to look for when buying games for kids. Those parents who are unaware of what their kids are doing are the exact people the ESRB targets. They want them to know what content is in their games. People will come around to it more over time. They aren't completely useless like you mention.

I've had a good number of parents turn their kids away from buying M rated games once I told them about the vulgarity/violence/etc. contained in the game. And that is the ESRB doing its job.

You'd be surprised at the number of families and parents that are monitoring what their kids are playing. I used to laugh at it since I never had to deal with it when I was younger, but I've realized over time that it is important, with all of these conditions that many kids are diagnosed with, and particularly since the media and negligent parents feel the need to locate a scapegoat when they cannot/will not realize it was poor parenting in the first place.

[bargora]

I agree with cmosfm's and Oobgarm's thoughtful posts. I also think that we are still in a transition period from the time when parents all thought of video games as "kid stuff" to a state where parents in general understand that there's some pretty raw shit going on in video games. I know, it seems inconceivable to us VG cognoscenti, and it's been over ten years since Doom caused a ruckus with its MAD DEMON BLASTING ACTION, but hey--nobody said that parents are the swiftest.

Parents ten years from now will have grown up playing video games, and will be much more aware of the fact that everything's not Pac-Man and Strawberry Shortcake Mix 'n' Match.

And as for those parents that don't give a shit? Well, I guess their kids can browse a Hustler and hit the pipe while playing GTA:Muthaf***in' Detroit. If you want total enforcement, all we need is government-monitored videocams in every room.

[goatdan]

Having ESRB ratings is a waste of time. They do absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Why?

Because you CAN'T enforce them in their entirety in order to gain the desired outcomes.

There was a store that was one block away from my middle school that a lot of kids went to after school because they would sell them cigarettes. Literally, every day after school a posse of kids would head over to that store, purchase their cigarettes and then stand around outside the store smoking them and looking "cool." Because you could still get cigarettes at that age from somewhere means that we should've taken off the rules? And I know parents who will buy them and give them to their 12 year olds. Does that mean that we should leave it totally up to society over who smokes?

You know what else? I was hit by a drunk driver in an automobile accident about three years ago. Last I checked, people were strongly given the suggestion not to drink or drive, and given punishments when they were caught doing it. People are still drinking and driving. I have a totalled car and about three months of hospital visits and lost wages to prove it. Because police CAN'T enforce the drunk driving policy in order to gain the desired outcome, should we just get rid of it?

Apply your argument to other things in society, and I hope that you can see that we'd have anarchy on our hands if society only did things that had 100% of the desired outcome. The ESRB isn't perfect. Then again, it took the movie industry a while before movie ratings became more stable (and the introduction of the PG-13 rating). The ESRB is relatively new. I know that by the time I'm a parent, I'll be paying attention to it and I will be glad that such a tool is available.

[Famidrive-16]

The other day me and a friend were in EB and we saw something of the nature, just flipped around. There was this 12 year old girl wanting to buy THUG 2 and the mom was asking the clerk what kind of violence or cursing was in the game. He said there were one or two words that were used but nothing extreme. The mom wouldn't let her kid have it which is common but c'mon; the girl was 12 years old! I could have understood if it was GTA. But a Tony Hawk game?

The humor's a bit more extreme than the past TH games. Not M-ish extreme, but Jackass-ish extreme.

The only time I've heard/seen a carding around this area was two years ago when a 15 year old frined of mine couldn't buy Twisted Metal Black. But that's it really.

[tritium]

Well at a gamestop near where i live I overheard the manager say that they have to enforce the ID check for M rated games as a matter of law as of Nov 1. Interesting. I'm in Miami, FL

Could be company policy that enforces it.

Also, I'm 24 and I still get carded for R rated movies... And everytime I die a little inside (j/k, I think its hilarious).

I think parent's shoudl gauge how mature and capable their kids are in handling these issues. I know people that get seasick from 3d games, people that get nighmares from scary movies. I think by the time your 18, your responsible for your own misery if do what you know is bad for you.

I was severly injured during a horror movie once. I jumped too hard and hurt my back... rofl

-Tritium

[SoulBlazer]

The ratings are needed these days, defentily.

Back when I was a kid in the late 80's early 90's the worst stuff to come out that I played was Mortal Kombat and Doom. My parents would'nt buy those games for me, but when I rented them and played them they were okay with it.

If GTA 3 had come out 10 years ago, I can promise you that game, along with a lot of other stuff, would come nowhere NEAR my hands. I had very controlling parents. :)

Basicaly, the stores and the guidelines do what they can, but a large part of it is still in parents hands.

[bargora]

In light of the pending California bill to ban violent video games, I thought I'd dredge this topic back up. Plus, maybe not all of you have had the pleasure of reading postulio's work.

Anyway, anybody here from California? Dahne? How is enforcement out there on the west coast? It must be pretty loose if the legislators are getting up in arms about it, right? There's no way that the call for a ban could be just cheap grandstanding and playing for political points, eh?

[FooFighter]

When Doom 3 came out I went to Wal-Mart to get it (I live in Cody, Wy no choice). When I was checking out the checker asked me for my I.D. I laughed it off and said sure I look under 17. I thought she was kidding, She said you look close. I laughed again, but she was dead serious I had to go out to my car and get my I.D. I'm 36 LOL.