HDTV question

[SkiDragon]

Ok, it seems that Xbox games look a good deal better on the HDTV, normal TV looks a good deal worse, and other games (including PS2 (component, Gamecube (s-video), and Atari 2600 (RF)) look worse, but its hard to tell to what degree. I have not had a chance to try this with other systems.

By worse I am talking about a fuzzyness in TV and the games, blurring when there is white text on a black backround (or any two contrasting colors), a "ghost" effect as well as above blurriness in "Breakout". Also some FMVs in original playstation games (through PS2) look blocky and also kinda fuzzy. Hard to describe.

I know the Xbox has progressive scan for nearly all of its games, so I understand why that looks better. I checked, and I own no PS2 games that are progressive scan capable. For Gamecube I would need those expensive cables from Nintendo.

Interestingly, when I play a DVD in the Xbox (which does not do DVD progressive scan) the movies look about the same as on a normal TV. I have not tried DVD movies on the PS2, but it does not do progressive scan anyway. I should see how prog scan DVDs look.

I am guessing its the high definition that is causing the problems. Instead of assigning a block of its smaller pixels to a normal pixel, it seems to want to smooth out things, and blur them. This is just speculation of course.

Since very few games do real high def (1080i, 720p) (Will Halo 2?), and I;m guessing the high def is the problem (I dont see how the way it displays lines of pixels would affect anything), I was wondering if there were such a thing as a "normal", non high-def TV that was still capable of progressive scan. If there is, I would probably go for that.

Also, is there any way I can test a 1090i signal without getting a tuner or any of that?

Thanks.

[unbroken]

i assume by 1090i , you mean 1080i (sorry i sell tv's for a living) anyway, unless you have a built in highdef tuner, you wouldnt be able to test it on normal television. Theres a difference between a tv that is high def compatable and a hi def tv. i would assume that you have a high def compatable t.v (i.e. a t.v that needs a box for high def cable t.v) What size is your T.V?, if you have a projection t.v, anything that isnt ran through component video/progressive scan/high def, is going to look like SHIT. how long have you had your t.v? sounds to me like your convergance might need tuning.

as for you wanting a non high def t.v with progressive scan. progressive scan isnt a feature on the t.v. your game or dvd or dvd player or xbox is what is progressive scan. if anything it will look worse on a non high def t.v. let me know what t.v you have (size,make,type) and i can narrow your problem down.

[JLukas]

It sounds like your TV is up converting the standard 480i signals (line doubling) Press the Setup button on your remote, there should be an option in one of the menus to turn it off. That'll give you the "normal" original interlaced signal. It obviously won't look nearly as good as a true pro-scan signal like from the Xbox but it should look better than the line doubled picture that apparently your TV is doing a crappy job of.

[SkiDragon]

I kinda copied this thread from another because I wasnt getting enough good answers.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44434

First of all, yes, I meant 1080i, that was a typo. So it seems that I cannot test the TVs 1080i capabilities without a tuner, because I have no access to one. I understand that a tuner is required.

Very few Xbox games are 1080i, but I was wondering if Halo 2 will be.

The TV is a 27" tube television. I have only had the TV for I think 2 weeks. I have no idea what "convergence" is.

I know that in order to take advantage of progessive scan, both the TV and the input have to "have" it. I have done this with my Xbox, and it is a noticible improvement.

Perhaps you can see why, for me at least, a non high-def, progressive scan TV may be desireable. I have heard of "EDTV", but have no real idea what it is. Is this what I'm looking for?

Also, the menu options on my TV are somewhat limited, and nothing I have tried has really helped.

[mycarsucks]

aaaaaaaa

[dj898]

Dragon's Lair 3D as well as Syberia have 1080i option...

cheers

[GaijinPunch]

I just got a 26" HD LCD for my play room. It's a shame that most of the games will still only look marginally better. What about Gamecube? Are there no 1080i compatible games?

[Half Japanese]

Here are the droids you're looking for:

www.hdtvarcade.com

Lists for all the systems are there. There are a few Xbox games that do 1080i, from memory:

- Syberia
- MX Unleashed
- Enter the Matrix
- Dragon's Lair

I game on a Zenith 27" HDTV with component cables for all available systems (and S-video for those that don't have component).

[dj898]

I just got a 26" HD LCD for my play room. It's a shame that most of the games will still only look marginally better. What about Gamecube? Are there no 1080i compatible games?

currently only Xbox supports 1080i and even that has performance issue hence no FPS in 1080i...

we will have to wait till next-gen I suppose...

cheers

[LiquidX01]

i assume by 1090i , you mean 1080i (sorry i sell tv's for a living) .

unbroken, what would you recommend in the hdtv category for gaming and dvd watching? plasma? lcd? dlp? right now, i'm leaning towards a 42" plasma.

Plasma TV's are known for excessive Burn In. Thus, Using it for gaming would truely ruin it, because most games always have something on the screen that doesnt move, IE: Huds, Scoreboards,....you get the idea.

DVD watching on plasma's are fine and really good looking.

For an all around great HDTV, I prefer CRT displays over anything.

[Promophile]

I'm totally clueless about HDTV but would like to get one. I've noticed lots of the bigger ones have REALLY bad screen quality, I think they are projection ones. Which should I look for for gaming, I would like the crispest picture I could get, screen size is only a secondary concern.

[LiquidX01]

If screen size isnt an issue, I would go for a CRT.

They dont suffer from Burn In, Very cost effective, and the only issue with it is that they normally max out at 36".

I got a 30" Widescreen Sony HDTV (CRT) and I love the thing. I would hate to use anything else for gaming.

I have gamed on a projection TV and if your not exactly in front of it, it looks like shit.

Plasma's are awesome looking but they still suffer from burn in horribly. I know people you have adjusted the brightness and contrast to lower levels on plasma's to game on and it looks like crap.

LCD's I have no clue about, they dont intrest me... :/

[unbroken]

i assume by 1090i , you mean 1080i (sorry i sell tv's for a living) .

unbroken, what would you recommend in the hdtv category for gaming and dvd watching? plasma? lcd? dlp? right now, i'm leaning towards a 42" plasma.

dlp for sure

[unbroken]

I kinda copied this thread from another because I wasnt getting enough good answers.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44434

First of all, yes, I meant 1080i, that was a typo. So it seems that I cannot test the TVs 1080i capabilities without a tuner, because I have no access to one. I understand that a tuner is required.

Very few Xbox games are 1080i, but I was wondering if Halo 2 will be.

The TV is a 27" tube television. I have only had the TV for I think 2 weeks. I have no idea what "convergence" is.

I know that in order to take advantage of progessive scan, both the TV and the input have to "have" it. I have done this with my Xbox, and it is a noticible improvement.

Perhaps you can see why, for me at least, a non high-def, progressive scan TV may be desireable. I have heard of "EDTV", but have no real idea what it is. Is this what I'm looking for?

Also, the menu options on my TV are somewhat limited, and nothing I have tried has really helped.

if you have the samsung or philips 27'' hdtv, return it now, because both of those have many problems. when buying a smaller t.v, especially crt, stick with toshiba or sony.

[The Manimal]

I kinda copied this thread from another because I wasnt getting enough good answers.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44434

First of all, yes, I meant 1080i, that was a typo. So it seems that I cannot test the TVs 1080i capabilities without a tuner, because I have no access to one. I understand that a tuner is required.

Very few Xbox games are 1080i, but I was wondering if Halo 2 will be.

The TV is a 27" tube television. I have only had the TV for I think 2 weeks. I have no idea what "convergence" is.

I know that in order to take advantage of progessive scan, both the TV and the input have to "have" it. I have done this with my Xbox, and it is a noticible improvement.

Perhaps you can see why, for me at least, a non high-def, progressive scan TV may be desireable. I have heard of "EDTV", but have no real idea what it is. Is this what I'm looking for?

Also, the menu options on my TV are somewhat limited, and nothing I have tried has really helped.

if you have the samsung or philips 27'' hdtv, return it now, because both of those have many problems. when buying a smaller t.v, especially crt, stick with toshiba or sony.

Not the case with me. I paid $370 (after shipping) for my 20" flatscreen analog SAMSUNG crt tv, and i would not have traded it for the Sony WEGA of the same year which was $400 in store. Higher resolution, 16X9 enhanced mode on a 4X3 screen (it scrunches the screen, NOT chopping off lines), less geometry problems with the screen. The sound bites hard, but I don't use the TV speakers. Of course these tv's are much cheaper now, but I would say look into specifications, reviews, and even check them out yourself. Toshiba's tend to bleed reds no matter what you do, and to get it to stop would be to make the picture look worse. In the 2 or 3 years it has been since I bought the thing, I would have to say that SONY and PANASONIC are the best RIGHT NOW. The newer Samsung's don't look as good as the ones from a few years back (where they were the BEST hands down! they were (I believe) the ones pushing forward with this HDTV technology in the first place) and I still wouldn't bother with the Toshiba, though their products are not shit. Panasonic TAU's look better than before and Sony has stepped up with features since and I'd probably go with a WEGA if I were to buy a current model.

[SoulBlazer]

Check my recent threads -- I just got a new TV. ;)

I ended up with a normal widescreen HD Ready Sony 36 inch.

The games that have progressive and/or widescreen support look AWSOME -- Star Ocean 3 for PS2 and Rogue Squadron III for GC, for example.

Even Madden on my XBox looks a little better.

Official cables and the Microsoft HD AV pack help also, but you don't need to pay big bucks for the Monster cables.

[Half Japanese]

Also, as you may notice from SoulBlazer's thread, the old MS HD packs went out of stock EVERYWHERE for a couple of months, but all is well now, there is a new HD pack out that has been redesigned and has shed the clunky box for a setup more like Monster's (except without the need to buy an additional adapter). They're the same price, $19.99.

[SoulBlazer]

Oh, NOW you tell me a new one has come out, when I went through HELL to find one! :/

Oh well. It was worth it. :)

[kai123]

I think Halo 2 is only doing 480p.

[Ed Oscuro]

Better than nothing! :)

[dj898]

so no 720p as once mentioned some where... :(

[SkiDragon]

So are there such a thing as non high-def, progressive scan TVs? Is that what "EDTV" is?

[mezrabad]

With regards to the XBOX and progressive scan DVDs.

Apparently it doesn't play DVDs in progressive scan with the regular DVD kit adaptor. BUT, if you were to have it modded, you'd be able to watch DVDs in progressive scan (and it would be region/dongle free.) Anyway, if you were intending to watch DVDs with your Xbox, progressive scan is a damn good reason to mod. I don't have a progressive scan DVD player to compare it to, but watching movies in progressive scan with my modded Xbox on my HDTV (Sony WEGA XBR 34" Flat Tube/Widescreen) is really, really nice.

[dj898]

So are there such a thing as non high-def, progressive scan TVs? Is that what "EDTV" is?

I believe if TV support prog 480p only then it's classified as EDTV.
HDTV must support 480p/720p/0180i either natively or by upconvert internally...

[GaijinPunch]

Geeky question: I don't recall seeing 480i vs 480p modes in these games. How does the TV handle the 480p signal if it can't do anything w/ it? Just throw it out?

Same question for 16:9 games.. seems to be almost exclusive to American games, of which I own none. Same deal, or do you have to set this?

[dj898]

on Xbox dashboard there's a setting to turn on/off wide screen. Also you will see 480p/720p/1080i WHEN HD AV cable is connected.

Yes there aren't that many titles support 16:9 mode - usually sports titles. On GameCube several titles also support 16:9 as well as prog-scan.

The reason for US-centric with HDTV Xbox titles is only US and JPN Xbox support HDTV. M$ withdrawn the support in PAL market... not sure of Asian market but seeing it's basically JPN Xbox with English support I believe it will also support HDTV...

480i is what you see on normal analogue TV. 480p is what you see on computer monitor at 640x480 resolution - well kind of... :p
Many HDTV has built-in converter that upconver/downconvert the incoming signal so TV can display properly on its screen. When it cannot process you will get the blank screen - feeding 720p into non-compatible HDTV will get you blank screen.

cheers

[SkiDragon]

Perhaps an EDTV is what I want then. Can anyone confirm if these look as good watching normal TV as, well, a normal TV?

Also, does its 480p mode look as nice as one on an HDTV?

Thanks.

[Promophile]

OK whats the difference between a DLP and a CRT? What are their advantages and disadvantages? What are the disadvantages of LCD?