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zmweasel
11-02-2004, 07:06 AM
While checking out the gamesindustry.biz piece that speculates on the PSP's battery life, you might also wanna check out this piece that quotes Sony's latest hardware sales figures: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5254

PlayStation/PSone

North America: 40.2 million
Europe/PAL: 39.8 million
Japan: 20.9 million

PlayStation 2/PStwo

North America: 32.2 million
Europe/PAL: 25.9 million
Japan: 17.9 million

As usual with Sony's numbers, these are sell-IN figures (hardware sold into retail) as opposed to sell-THROUGH figures (hardware sold to consumers), although the difference is rarely more than a few million.

Those are staggering numbers, in case you didn't know.

-- Z.

pixelsnpolygons
11-02-2004, 07:31 AM
Let me be the first to turn this thread into a pointless arguement over how Sony only achieved those numbers because everyone has had to buy three systems to replace the ones that have broken.

Seriously though, I am sure that is part of it - even though none of my PlayStation (2) systems have broken. And even if broken systems are part of those numbers, it is still very impressive.

le geek
11-02-2004, 08:17 AM
Do you have comparison data for cube/xbox? Or better yet do you have numbers for Atari VCS and NES? :)

Cheers,
Ben

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 09:30 AM
Do you have comparison data for cube/xbox? Or better yet do you have numbers for Atari VCS and NES? :)

Cheers,
Ben

Farm-fresh sales data for the Cube and Xbox, no, although Microsoft has been touting its North American momentum; the Xbox recently outsold the PS2 over a one-week period for the first time. Neither the GameCube nor the Xbox will ever catch up to the PS2, however. In fact, the combined hardware sales of the Cube and the Xbox will never catch up to the PS2.

As for VCS and NES numbers, I assume your real question is whether either of them sold more units than the PS1 and PS2, and the answer is no. The NES/Famicom was certainly more successful worldwide than the VCS.

EDIT: Changed the final sentence, which originally implied that the NES had outsold the PS1 worldwide, when I meant that it had outsold the VCS worldwide.

-- Z.

lendelin
11-02-2004, 10:49 AM
Amazing numbers, indeed. It is said very often that the NES in America sold 20 to 25 million units. Now, in every third household in America there is a PS2.

The figures make also clear how important the American market is in the meantime compared to the Japanese market; and Europe certainly caught on.

With the game recession in Japan, I think we can expect Japanese developers more and more tailor their games to 'Western' tastes. While videogames had always universal appeal, the worldwide appeal of games (America and Europe) is now a big factor for Japanese developers from the getgo. You have to fish where the fish bite best.

dethink
11-02-2004, 11:00 AM
Let me be the first to turn this thread into a pointless arguement over how Sony only achieved those numbers because everyone has had to buy three systems to replace the ones that have broken.

Seriously though, I am sure that is part of it - even though none of my PlayStation (2) systems have broken. And even if broken systems are part of those numbers, it is still very impressive.

yes, but you also have to hand it to sony's marketing people for creating a product SO desireable, that people will even buy one (multiple times) after it breaks.

seriously, no one over at sony twisted anyone's arm to go buy another PS2 over an xbox/GC/etc. after their system broke, and it's not like a PS2 is an absolute necessity like food/shelter/etc.

kevincure
11-02-2004, 11:02 AM
The NES/Famicon did not outsell the PS1 worldwide - PS1 is the only home system to move over 100m.

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 11:36 AM
The NES/Famicon did not outsell the PS1 worldwide - PS1 is the only home system to move over 100m.

I edited my post to clear up your confusion. I meant the NES had sold more units than the VCS worldwide, not the PS1. The PS1 and PS2 are the #1 and #2 best-selling home consoles of all time.

-- Z.

downfall
11-02-2004, 11:53 AM
yes, but you also have to hand it to sony's marketing people for creating a product SO desireable, that people will even buy one (multiple times) after it breaks.

As I'm sure many people are just like me, Sony's marketing people had little to nothing to do with my desire to purchase a PS2. I purchased a PS2, simply based on the fact that the system, just like any other system out there, has exclusive games that I want to play. Same reason I have every other system that I do.

And I will always contend that the reason that so many PS2's break is because so many people fail to take any sort of decent care of them. Disc-based systems are a whole lot more delicate than cartridge based systems, and it's common sense that a cartridge based system can take a beating ten times worse than a disc-based system and still keep ticking. I don't think a lot of people really consider that, and end up treating their PS2 like their NES - and it can't hold up. Personally, I bought a used PS2 from Gamestop 2+ years ago, and it still works perfectly to this day.

kai123
11-02-2004, 12:27 PM
The NES/Famicon did not outsell the PS1 worldwide - PS1 is the only home system to move over 100m.

I edited my post to clear up your confusion. I meant the NES had sold more units than the VCS worldwide, not the PS1. The PS1 and PS2 are the #1 and #2 best-selling home consoles of all time.

-- Z.

How do they compare to the Gameboy series? I know they are two different markets I am just curious. :P

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 12:35 PM
The NES/Famicon did not outsell the PS1 worldwide - PS1 is the only home system to move over 100m.

I edited my post to clear up your confusion. I meant the NES had sold more units than the VCS worldwide, not the PS1. The PS1 and PS2 are the #1 and #2 best-selling home consoles of all time.

-- Z.

How do they compare to the Gameboy series? I know they are two different markets I am just curious. :P

I don't have recent GB numbers readily available, but the various GB iterations have racked up enormous sales figures over the past 15 years. Nintendo itself compared GBA sales to PS2 sales at its E3 2004 press conference/fanboy revival.

-- Z.

kevincure
11-02-2004, 03:11 PM
Zach is right. I don't have the GB numbers, but worldwide sales of the GB classic alone were in the area of 100m if I remember correctly.

SoulBlazer
11-02-2004, 04:45 PM
Which console do you guys expect will sell the best this holiday series?

The Manimal
11-02-2004, 04:58 PM
Which console do you guys expect will sell the best this holiday series?


PS2, followed by XBOX...

Ed Oscuro
11-02-2004, 05:06 PM
Ditto, there's nothing coming to move GC units this year. Oops!

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 05:06 PM
Which console do you guys expect will sell the best this holiday series?

Tough call. Halo 2 is system-selling software, but the PStwo is dead-sexy hardware. I'm only comfortable in predicting that the GameCube will finish a distant third, and lose even more ground to the Xbox. (This half-assed non-prediction is for the NA market only, of course.)

Also, it seems obvious that the PlayStation 2 will reach the 100 million mark before it's done, seeing as it's only been at $149 for six months--the price point at and below which 90 of those 100 million PS1s were sold.

-- Z.

Nez
11-02-2004, 05:06 PM
I wish ther was a way to find out what percentage of those systems are broken. While I've never have had a problem with my PS2 I know it is refurbashied.

Ed Oscuro
11-02-2004, 05:10 PM
As for the GameCube - Nintendo is looking to sell a lot of DS units, but where do Prime 2 (saw an ad on TV... :/ ) and New Zelda fit in? As they aren't doing anything special for the console at all this holiday season, are they looking for a short future revival with MP2 and New Zelda or is it possible they're going to push those titles back to the next console?

Odd that N is working this way.

RCM
11-02-2004, 05:12 PM
kai123 wrote:
zmweasel wrote:
kevincure wrote:
The NES/Famicon did not outsell the PS1 worldwide - PS1 is the only home system to move over 100m.


I edited my post to clear up your confusion. I meant the NES had sold more units than the VCS worldwide, not the PS1. The PS1 and PS2 are the #1 and #2 best-selling home consoles of all time.

-- Z.


How do they compare to the Gameboy series? I know they are two different markets I am just curious. :P


I don't have recent GB numbers readily available, but the various GB iterations have racked up enormous sales figures over the past 15 years. Nintendo itself compared GBA sales to PS2 sales at its E3 2004 press conference/fanboy revival.

-- Z.

Nintendo announced a while back that the Gameboy and its variations sold 100 million units. It was a couple years ago. I'm sure they haven't gone very far beyond that number b/c Nintendo has been pushing the GBA and SP for the past couple years.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

Dobie
11-02-2004, 05:43 PM
I'd be curious what percentage of the total population those numbers reflect. Its tough to compare data across decades when there's X-million more people (X-billion worldwide) around to buy these things.

Ed Oscuro
11-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Nintendo announced a while back that the Gameboy and its variations sold 100 million units. It was a couple years ago. I'm sure they haven't gone very far beyond that number b/c Nintendo has been pushing the GBA and SP for the past couple years.
So pushing the GBA and SP for the last couple of years = virtually no sales? Remember that just three years ago the GBA was brand new.

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 06:29 PM
I'd be curious what percentage of the total population those numbers reflect. Its tough to compare data across decades when there's X-million more people (X-billion worldwide) around to buy these things.

I understand what you're saying, but we're only comparing data across two decades. Actually less, considering the PS1 came out in Japan in '94 and the U.S. in '95. It's not like the movie biz, where Gone with the Wind remains the biggest-grossing movie of all time after adjusting for inflation.

Nintendo sold 36 million NESes worldwide from 1985 to 1996--roughly three and a half million a year. Sony sold 100 million PS1s worldwide from 1994 to 2004--roughly ten million a year. Even factoring population growth into the equation, the PS1 is clearly the winner.

In its own press releases, Nintendo states that "since the release of its first home video game system in 1983, Nintendo has sold...more than 170 million hardware units globally." That's everything Nintendo has ever done--Game Boy, NES, Super NES, Virtual Boy, N64, GameCube. And we know the Game Boy line makes up more than half of that 170-million figure. Sony has sold as much video game hardware in ten years as Nintendo has sold in twenty. If you focus on home consoles, Sony has sold more than twice as much hardware as Nintendo, in half the time.

-- Z.

SoulBlazer
11-02-2004, 06:41 PM
Could'nt you also argue that there are two reasons for that -- one, more people playing and buying video games to start with, and two, the success of Sony's efforts to make gaming 'cool' and mainstream?

goatdan
11-02-2004, 06:53 PM
If you count it, I think that the DS will sell the most number of new hardware units this holiday season. It's the only new system that will be released in North America, and Nintendo will put enough marketing power behind it to sell it.

If not the DS, I think it will be very close. Halo 2 is causing a lot of people to think about getting an Xbox to go along with the Playstation 2 they already bought. I think that for the most part, the PS2 market is pretty well saturated. Because of that, I see this as a time for Microsoft to game some ground.

I guess we'll see how it all works out.

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 07:08 PM
Could'nt you also argue that there are two reasons for that -- one, more people playing and buying video games to start with, and two, the success of Sony's efforts to make gaming 'cool' and mainstream?

There's no question that more Americans are playing video games than ever before--but since many of those new gamers are teens and preteens who've grown up with gaming, one would expect Nintendo to benefit as much as Sony, which obviously hasn't happened.

Thus, I'm more much in agreement with your second argument, that Sony picked up where Sega left off and cannily marketed to teenagers and young adults, while Nintendo remains unable (and arguably unwilling) to shed its kiddie image.

-- Z.

Dobie
11-02-2004, 07:45 PM
I'd be curious what percentage of the total population those numbers reflect. Its tough to compare data across decades when there's X-million more people (X-billion worldwide) around to buy these things.

I understand what you're saying, but we're only comparing data across two decades. Actually less, considering the PS1 came out in Japan in '94 and the U.S. in '95. It's not like the movie biz, where Gone with the Wind remains the biggest-grossing movie of all time after adjusting for inflation.

Nintendo sold 36 million NESes worldwide from 1985 to 1996--roughly three and a half million a year. Sony sold 100 million PS1s worldwide from 1994 to 2004--roughly ten million a year. Even factoring population growth into the equation, the PS1 is clearly the winner.

In its own press releases, Nintendo states that "since the release of its first home video game system in 1983, Nintendo has sold...more than 170 million hardware units globally." That's everything Nintendo has ever done--Game Boy, NES, Super NES, Virtual Boy, N64, GameCube. And we know the Game Boy line makes up more than half of that 170-million figure. Sony has sold as much video game hardware in ten years as Nintendo has sold in twenty. If you focus on home consoles, Sony has sold more than twice as much hardware as Nintendo, in half the time.

-- Z.

But how would Sony compare to Atari and the VCS in its heyday? Atari had a console in roughly 25% of all American households at its peak, more than VCRs at the time--is Sony the same? I don't know--100 million worldwide is a lot, but that's all that number really tells us. That they sold (and are still selling) a lot of consoles worldwide. Comparison with any other figures just isn't valid, because you're taking numbers out of their context and throwing them into one big pot. Apples and Oranges (to throw out the old cliche).

Plus two decades isn't insignificant considering the exponential growth of the world's population over that time period. Its increased by over 2 billion worldwide in my lifetime alone (1978-now), and by over 1 billion since the PS1's release. Not all "2000 million" of those people are out there buying PS2s, but you can't just gloss over such a vast difference.

Videogaming has increased in popularity over the years as well, with a greater percentage of the population playing games, so to get a true picture of a particular consoles "dominance," you'd have to adjust for that too.

I think market share percentages are a better comparison of a particular system's popularity, as they really aren't affected by things such as population and market growth--its just a relative comparison of a company's control of the market at a given time. This CAN be compared over time periods, as it reduces variables that can favor "stat loading," and agenda manipulation.

Ed Oscuro
11-02-2004, 07:48 PM
Ditto, there's nothing coming to move GC units this year. Oops!
My bad...didn't know MP2 was already coming out. Word!

RCM
11-02-2004, 08:41 PM
RCM wrote:
Nintendo announced a while back that the Gameboy and its variations sold 100 million units. It was a couple years ago. I'm sure they haven't gone very far beyond that number b/c Nintendo has been pushing the GBA and SP for the past couple years.

So pushing the GBA and SP for the last couple of years = virtually no sales? Remember that just three years ago the GBA was brand new.

Not saying that Ed. I was just saying that Gameboy sales have probably slowed since the introduction of the GBA and SP. If Gameboy continued hitting huge sales milestones Nintendo would let us know about it for sure.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

RCM
11-02-2004, 08:46 PM
But how would Sony compare to Atari and the VCS in its heyday? Atari had a console in roughly 25% of all American households at its peak, more than VCRs at the time--is Sony the same? I don't know--100 million worldwide is a lot, but that's all that number really tells us. That they sold (and are still selling) a lot of consoles worldwide. Comparison with any other figures just isn't valid, because you're taking numbers out of their context and throwing them into one big pot. Apples and Oranges (to throw out the old cliche).

Plus two decades isn't insignificant considering the exponential growth of the world's population over that time period. Its increased by over 2 billion worldwide in my lifetime alone (1978-now), and by over 1 billion since the PS1's release. Not all "2000 million" of those people are out there buying PS2s, but you can't just gloss over such a vast difference.

Videogaming has increased in popularity over the years as well, with a greater percentage of the population playing games, so to get a true picture of a particular consoles "dominance," you'd have to adjust for that too.

I think market share percentages are a better comparison of a particular system's popularity, as they really aren't affected by things such as population and market growth--its just a relative comparison of a company's control of the market at a given time. This CAN be compared over time periods, as it reduces variables that can favor "stat loading," and agenda manipulation.

That's all very interesting. One thing is for sure, Sony has done exceptionally well in both the 32/64 bit and 64/128 bit wars.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

EricRyan34
11-02-2004, 11:37 PM
That is alot of systems made, I wonder how much of it is profit for SONY

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 11:38 PM
But how would Sony compare to Atari and the VCS in its heyday? Atari had a console in roughly 25% of all American households at its peak, more than VCRs at the time--is Sony the same? I don't know--100 million worldwide is a lot, but that's all that number really tells us. That they sold (and are still selling) a lot of consoles worldwide. Comparison with any other figures just isn't valid, because you're taking numbers out of their context and throwing them into one big pot. Apples and Oranges (to throw out the old cliche).

I don't know where you're getting the 25% figure, or what year you consider the VCS to have peaked, but we'll go ahead and make up some shit. (Also, VCRs were hardly a mass-market item in 1983, so I'm not sure why you threw that factoid in there. There were also more VCSes than laserdisc players in U.S. households. So what?)

1) Let's say that 1983, the year of the crash, was also the peak of the VCS, with a system in one of every four U.S. households.

2) The 1980 Census counted 88.4 million U.S. households. The 1990 Census counted 102.3 million. That's 14 million new households in 10 years. So let's say there were 92.6 million U.S. households in 1983 (88.4 + 4.2).

3) 92.6 divided by four = 23.15 million Atari VCSes at the system's peak.

4) The 2000 Census counted 115.9 million U.S. households, reflecting the 1980-to-1990 trend. So let's say there are 121.5 million U.S. households in 2004 (115.9 + 5.6).

5) 40 million PS1s sold = one in every three U.S. households. 32.2 million PS2s sold = one in every four U.S. households.

So, using these bullshit numbers, the PS1 beats the VCS, while the PS2 ties it, although the PS2 will pull ahead in the next couple of years, especially when it drops to $99.

And, of course, this doesn't include the Asian or European markets. I can't say 'bout Europe--when is Lenny Herman going to write the European edition of Phoenix?--but in Japan, the VCS was a non-starter.

Would the VCS have sold at a PS1/PS2-like pace if not for the crash? Doubtful. It was already six years old in 1983, and Intellivision and ColecoVision were stealing customers with their far prettier graphics. (I was one of 'em.)


Plus two decades isn't insignificant considering the exponential growth of the world's population over that time period. Its increased by over 2 billion worldwide in my lifetime alone (1978-now), and by over 1 billion since the PS1's release. Not all "2000 million" of those people are out there buying PS2s, but you can't just gloss over such a vast difference.

Most of the world's population growth over the past two decades was in Third World nations where indoor plumbing is a novelty and birth control is nonexistent, not First World nations where average citizens are blessed with disposable income for video game systems.


Videogaming has increased in popularity over the years as well, with a greater percentage of the population playing games, so to get a true picture of a particular consoles "dominance," you'd have to adjust for that too.

There's no doubt that more Americans are playing video games. The VCS and NES were targeted at children; the PS1 and PS2 have been targeted at everyone. But it's not only Sony that would benefit from this expanding market; Nintendo should have benefited, as well. It didn't, because it still hasn't figured out how to reach beyond children and fanboys.


I think market share percentages are a better comparison of a particular system's popularity, as they really aren't affected by things such as population and market growth--its just a relative comparison of a company's control of the market at a given time. This CAN be compared over time periods, as it reduces variables that can favor "stat loading," and agenda manipulation.

Using market share as the measurement of system dominance is misleading, since the NES had no legitimate competition during its mid- to late-'80s run. When Sega (all too briefly) got its act together, Nintendo's market share plunged, and when Sony entered the hardware biz, it plunged again. It was easy for Nintendo to control the video game industry when everyone else had abandoned it.

In fact, Sony's overwhelming market share during the past decade, despite intense competition from Sega, Nintendo, and Microsoft, makes the PS1 and PS2 sales figures even more impressive by comparison to the VCS and NES.

-- Z.

zmweasel
11-02-2004, 11:44 PM
That is alot of systems made, I wonder how much of it is profit for SONY

Lots and lots. Sony doesn't outsource its hardware, unlike Nintendo (e.g., the GameCube's ATI graphics chip) and Microsoft (e.g., the Xbox's third-party DVD drives), and so it makes a tidy profit on every system sold. The drawback of doing everything in-house is that Sony has to invest billions of dollars into up-front R&D before it can make back the money with hardware sales. That's one reason why Sony is eager to eliminate the five-year hardware cycle.

-- Z.

PS2Hawk
11-03-2004, 01:42 AM
Let me be the first to turn this thread into a pointless arguement over how Sony only achieved those numbers because everyone has had to buy three systems to replace the ones that have broken.

Seriously though, I am sure that is part of it - even though none of my PlayStation (2) systems have broken. And even if broken systems are part of those numbers, it is still very impressive.

Might wanna compares games aah buddy.... My xbox broke on me. GameCube has been solid. And so is PS2.

lendelin
11-03-2004, 01:04 PM
The detailed reasoning of zmweasel with population growth in industrialized countries and developing countries and other factors is exactly what I wanted to write reading the post of Dobie; it is some good reasoning which distinguishes different aspects of aggregate numbers. Great resoning.

...and people, all of you who wrote in a belittling way that Sony was 'only' so successful because they tapped into the adult market....holy moly, that is EXACTLY the reason why they were so successful based on a smart decision which others tried and couldn't pull it off. It is an explanation and a merit, but not an accusation against Sony. (unless you assume that N, Sega, and MS intentionally don't wanna grow and seek losses instead of profits)

tritium
11-03-2004, 01:06 PM
Add one to that, I just bought a PS2. And i agree, the reason Sony has been so successful is that they targeted the 18-24 Male demographic, that's soo famous for having lots of their income as disposable for entertainment.

-Tritium

davepesc
11-30-2005, 02:23 PM
Holy dead topics Batman!

EricRyan34
11-30-2005, 03:13 PM
Wow, thats insane. The cool thing about the PS1 is that I have had mine since launch back in 96 or something, and it still works! :D

badinsults
11-30-2005, 09:23 PM
Why bring up this ancient topic. Jeeesh.

Ed Oscuro
11-30-2005, 09:37 PM
Let me be the first to turn this thread into a pointless arguement over how Sony only achieved those numbers because everyone has had to buy three systems to replace the ones that have broken.
Right, because Saturns, Dreamcasts, GameCubes and especially Xboxes never break.

Since the topic is resurrected (HOLY SHAMBLING ZOMBIES!) I might as well do a finisher move on that worthless argument LOL

Ed Oscuro
12-01-2005, 10:51 AM
I'm glad you did, actually. Any info on the 4M E.T. carts being unlikely, though? I'm curious as to where that story started (and indeed if it's true or not seems an open question, no?)

kevin_psx
12-01-2005, 05:05 PM
There's no question that more Americans are playing video games than ever before--but since many of those new gamers are teens and preteens who've grown up with gaming, one would expect Nintendo to benefit as much as Sony, which obviously hasn't happened.

Sure it has. Nintendo's "failed" N64 and "failed" Gamecube both sold as many units as the #1 NES or #1 SNES. Nintendo benefited from the growing popularity of gaming - even "failed" consoles = NES/SNES in units sold.


Why's PS1 stuck at 100 million? It was there back in 2003. Thought PS1 = 110 million by now?

zmweasel
12-07-2005, 09:31 PM
Sure it has. Nintendo's "failed" N64 and "failed" Gamecube both sold as many units as the #1 NES or #1 SNES. Nintendo benefited from the growing popularity of gaming - even "failed" consoles = NES/SNES in units sold.

Wow, how'd this thread get dug up? Crazy.

In any case, Kevin, where are you getting your sales figures? According to all the sales stats I've seen, Nintendo has sold fewer units of every home console since the NES, with the GameCube selling the fewest of all.

According to Nintendo itself, the GameCube has sold 18.5 million units as of June 2005.

A quick Google search turned up these figures as of January '05:

NES: 61,780,000
SNES: 49,020,000
Nintendo 64: 32,930,000
GameCube: 18,030,000

So...again, where are you getting your numbers? 'Cause they don't jibe with anyone else's, including Nintendo's.


Why's PS1 stuck at 100 million? It was there back in 2003. Thought PS1 = 110 million by now?

The PS1 hit the end of its lifecycle. It's not "stuck" at 100 million--it ended at 100 million. The PS2 might yet hit 110 million before it's done, though.

-- Z.

jonathonwillie
12-08-2005, 02:00 PM
YAY! im one of those 74 million people

Gemini-Phoenix
12-08-2005, 06:21 PM
That sure is one hell of a figure! And certainly an unimaginable amount of electronic devices that are all pretty much identical. One million PlayStation's is a lot, but 100 million is just insane!

I am also one out of 74 million. But I am also one out of 2000. ;)

kevin_psx
12-08-2005, 08:20 PM
Why's PS1 stuck at 100 million? It was there back in 2003. Thought PS1 = 110 million by now?The PS1 hit the end of its lifecycle. It's not "stuck" at 100 million--it ended at 100 million.
PS1 hasn't reached the end of its cycle. Its still selling as the white-colored version & likely sold another 10 million since 2003.



Sure it has. Nintendo's "failed" N64 and "failed" Gamecube both sold as many units as the #1 NES or #1 SNES. Nintendo benefited from the growing popularity of gaming - such that even "failed" consoles = NES/SNES in units sold.
I was wrong about the GameCube - it only sold 20 million so far.

Between 1985-91 NES sold about 30 million. Same amount as SNES. Same amount as the N64. My source for these figures are too many to list - Newsweek, NPD, digitpress.com, and other articles.

zmweasel
12-08-2005, 08:40 PM
Kevin: I responded to this in the other 100-million-Sony-systems-sold thread.

-- Z.