Has there ever been a "Killer App" Killer?

[le geek]

The Killzone review on IGN go me thinking. Most games designed to be a <insert killer app here> killer, usually for another system, never quite measure up.

i.e.
Halo > Killzone
Gran Turismo > Sega GT

or going way back...
Virtua Racing DX >>> Checkered Flag
Virtua Fighter >>>>>> Fight For Life

I think the Tekken series (a response to Virtua Fighter) became it's own series and ultimately became more successful...but not by a large margin.

What do you think?
Ben

[Bratwurst]

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 > Genesis sold twice as many units as SNES that year. It could be argued that the first Sonic pulled Mario down to even ground, as opposed to being a pure untouchable cash cow.

Donkey Kong Country > Outright stomped on the 32X

Sorry to be so elementary, those just came to my mind so immediately. When you dwelve into the realm of killer apps you're mostly stuck with the high profile stuff, afterall.

[le geek]

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 > Genesis sold twice as many units as SNES that year. It could be argued that the first Sonic pulled Mario down to even ground, as opposed to being a pure untouchable cash cow.

Donkey Kong Country > Outright stomped on the 32X

Sorry to be so elementary, those just came to my mind so immediately. When you dwelve into the realm of killer apps you're mostly stuck with the high profile stuff, afterall.

Definitely on Sonic 2.

Not quite apples to apples on DKC. It (rightly so) breathed new life into the snes, but was not a response to a particular game. But Vectorman was and (while good) fell short...

DKC > Vectorman (I'm rockin')

[XxMe2NiKxX]

Vectorman II > DKC3.

Sonic 2 > All.

Quake II > Half-life *Puts on flame-retardent suit*

[Bratwurst]

Agreed on Vectorman, Sonic & Knuckles also fell a little short that holiday season. Thing about DKC is that the entire reason for the 32X was blown out of the water when the SNES could do 'comparable' stuff by itself. Comparable by most folk's standards anyway. Not to say the mushroom didn't have other problems..


Quake II > Half-life *Puts on flame-retardent suit*

I'll bite.

Half Life was built around a modified QII engine and was released a little later.. also got Game of the Year from several publications.. people are still playing it online in droves, 6 years after its release. If anything Half Life killed Quake, because the next sequel was online only and we haven't heard anything about it since.

[soniko_karuto]

Agreed on Vectorman, Sonic & Knuckles also fell a little short that holiday season. Thing about DKC is that the entire reason for the 32X was blown out of the water when the SNES could do 'comparable' stuff by itself. Comparable by most folk's standards anyway. Not to say the mushroom didn't have other problems..


Quake II > Half-life *Puts on flame-retardent suit*

I'll bite.

Half Life was built around a modified QII engine and was released a little later.. also got Game of the Year from several publications.. people are still playing it online in droves, 6 years after its release. If anything Half Life killed Quake, because the next sequel was online only and we haven't heard anything about it since.

on the half life thingie:

it works just like doom 3 right now. yeah, the game graphically rox0rz, but they just need to make a game with the game engine. :)

[goatdan]

I would argue that Fight for Life wasn't meant to be a Virtual Fighter killer app.

I would argue that Donkey Kong Country was more of a Atari Jaguar / 3DO killer app (this game looks better than BOTH of those systems!!!) and it lived up to the hype.

I think that the biggest problem is making a great game look bad just isn't possible. Even if a new game looks better and plays better, it doesn't mean that suddenly an old game sucks. Even if Killzone was a great game, it wouldn't mean that everyone would stop playing Halo.

[soniko_karuto]

*snip*
Even if Killzone was a great game, it wouldn't mean that everyone would stop playing Halo.

omg a xobox fanboi!~!!~!!11!!

reeally, halo sucks. big time. and not only halo. any other incarnation of an fps on consoles sucks big time.

sure flame me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not quite apples to apples on DKC. It (rightly so) breathed new life into the snes, but was not a response to a particular game.
That makes the disparity even more breathtaking!

[le geek]

I would argue that Fight for Life wasn't meant to be a Virtual Fighter killer app.

Can you elaborate? Atari made a big deal out of hiring a former Virtua Fighter programmer to work on the game.

Ben

[Ed Oscuro]

reeally, halo sucks. big time. and not only halo. any other incarnation of an fps on consoles sucks big time.
N64 Zeldas suck, then.

Metroid Prime is a shoo-in for sucktitude as well.

Suuure.

[soniko_karuto]

reeally, halo sucks. big time. and not only halo. any other incarnation of an fps on consoles sucks big time.
N64 Zeldas suck, then.

Metroid Prime is a shoo-in for sucktitude as well.

Suuure.

yeah, i know that the n64 zeldas sucks. And i didn't liked metroid prime either.

if you took it personally, sorry mate, but i'm an rpg/pc fps/d&d player. So i know what i like and i like what it's good for me.

[Ed Oscuro]

When one says such-and-such sucks, I'm aware that's a statement of opinion...but I think it's flat out stupid to argue that a game has no positive qualities (correct me if they've updated the thesaurus while I'm gone).

So basically, you're throwing out polarized garbage just to look like a hardass. Seriously, that's all this accomplishes.

[Oobgarm]

When one says such-and-such sucks, I'm aware that's a statement of opinion...but I think it's flat out stupid to argue that a game has no positive qualities (correct me if they've updated the thesaurus while I'm gone).

So basically, you're throwing out polarized garbage just to look like a hardass. Seriously, that's all this accomplishes.

That's an excellent post you make there, Ed. I shall add to it:

It's great to have an opinion, but don't troll. Posting because you know it's gonna ruffle feathers is not cool, and it makes you look less intelligent in the process.

[soniko_karuto]

When one says such-and-such sucks, I'm aware that's a statement of opinion...but I think it's flat out stupid to argue that a game has no positive qualities (correct me if they've updated the thesaurus while I'm gone).

So basically, you're throwing out polarized garbage just to look like a hardass. Seriously, that's all this accomplishes.

That's an excellent post you make there, Ed. I shall add to it:

It's great to have an opinion, but don't troll. Posting because you know it's gonna ruffle feathers is not cool, and it makes you look less intelligent in the process.

It was not my intention to troll, really. If i don't like certain types of games, and i mentioned one, and then said that actually FOR ME that genre sucks, then what was i trolling for? If i had said that half life sucks, then the whole pc people would chase over me, it would have been the same with metroid, or whatever on the ps2.

Believe me, fps games on consoles just plain suck.

[bargora]

Believe me, fps games on consoles just plain suck.
I liked Unreal Tournament on the PS2.

It's hard liking things that suck.

[Ed Oscuro]

It was not my intention to troll, really. If i don't like certain types of games, and i mentioned one, and then said that actually FOR ME that genre sucks, then what was i trolling for? If i had said that half life sucks, then the whole pc people would chase over me, it would have been the same with metroid, or whatever on the ps2.

Believe me, fps games on consoles just plain suck.
I know it's not your intention to troll. It's also not the intention of the lady who pulls out in front of me (I'm going 55, and she only goes to 30) to delay me.

I'm not mad at all, but I'm trying to point out that there's this double standard - people are able to provide their opinions, but when somebody comes by and says that the opinion basically goes against the instincts of everybody else that the critic is wrong for appealing to populism, or something.

Oh, and a big thanks for taking this well :) I was afraid you'd be really pissed off...glad I was able to try and make a point without inciting a flame war.

[Iron Draggon]

Actually, DKC WAS advertised as a reason why you didn't need a 32X. They made a very big point out of how it was all possible WITHOUT any expensive addons, which was a very OBVIOUS stab at the 32X, which came out around the same time. So apparently it WAS made to be a 32X killer, and it worked! It even convinced me to finally break down and buy a SNES, and I'm sure that it convinced alot of other people to get a SNES instead of a 32X also. I got both, but for those on a tight budget, I'm sure that it influenced alot of decisions over one or the other, and the SNES beat the 32X to death with DKC!

[goatdan]

Even if Killzone was a great game, it wouldn't mean that everyone would stop playing Halo.

omg a xobox fanboi!~!!~!!11!!

reeally, halo sucks. big time. and not only halo. any other incarnation of an fps on consoles sucks big time.

sure flame me.

Erm... I have Halo for my Xbox... because it came in the Halo pack that I got. I pulled it out and played it for about 30 minutes expecting it would hook me somehow. It did not. I have not played it since.

I was just pointing out the fact that people who like a certain game aren't going to suddenly stop playing the old one completely because a new one is released. The example is that Killzone won't mean that people are going to stop playing Halo. Personally, I'm not going to play either in the near future, but I thought that it was a good example.

This thread isn't about personal opinions on genre's, it is about games that are considered Killer Apps. Halo is considered a Killer App for the Xbox whether you or I love it or not. Killzone is supposed to be the "Halo-killer." My point is just that Killzone can't be a Halo killer, because *some people* will keep playing Halo regardless. Anyways...



I would argue that Fight for Life wasn't meant to be a Virtua Fighter killer app.

Can you elaborate? Atari made a big deal out of hiring a former Virtua Fighter programmer to work on the game.

I apologize, I didn't quite say this the way that I intended too.. I don't see that when Fight for Life was released, Atari though it would be a Virtua Fighter killer app. Perhaps when the game was started, Atari believed it could be made to be better than Virtua Fighter -- but in Atari's mad rush to publish the game, they stopped implementation of a speed increase, more moves, more characters and forgot to get rid of stuff like the useless high score chart. Had Fight for Life been released as a killer app, it would have had a lot more advertising behind it and Atari would have made sure it was at least polished to the point of being more presentable.


Actually, DKC WAS advertised as a reason why you didn't need a 32X... *snip*

Ah, I apologize. I meant that statement about it being better than or gaining more hype over the Vectorman series. Donkey Kong Country was released on November 1st, 1994, the same year as the nation-wide release of the Jaguar and the 32X, as well as the 3DO I believe. Nintendo took the opportunity to basically tell people that the gameplay and the graphics hadn't been improved enough on these new systems to warrant a purchase, and pushes Donkey Kong Country to incredible heights.

One of the biggest failings of the Jaguar in the press came after it claimed photorealistic graphics, but then had 2D games like Kasumi Ninja and Zool 2 released for it that didn't look that great while the SNES had this incredibly great looking and sounding game released for it. It didn't matter that there weren't that many DKC-quality graphic / gameplay releases for the system, it just mattered that the game suddenly made the Jaguar, 3DO and 32X look underpowered compared to the SNES.

Nintendo really did a damn good job with that game.

[Ernster]

When one says such-and-such sucks, I'm aware that's a statement of opinion...but I think it's flat out stupid to argue that a game has no positive qualities (correct me if they've updated the thesaurus while I'm gone).

So basically, you're throwing out polarized garbage just to look like a hardass. Seriously, that's all this accomplishes.

That's an excellent post you make there, Ed. I shall add to it:

It's great to have an opinion, but don't troll. Posting because you know it's gonna ruffle feathers is not cool, and it makes you look less intelligent in the process.

It was not my intention to troll, really. If i don't like certain types of games, and i mentioned one, and then said that actually FOR ME that genre sucks, then what was i trolling for? If i had said that half life sucks, then the whole pc people would chase over me, it would have been the same with metroid, or whatever on the ps2.

Believe me, fps games on consoles just plain suck.

Man...STFU, you sound like a typical PC gaming geek. Are you saying Goldeneye sucked? you saying Perfect Dark sucked etc. O_O

[thegreatescape]

This thread isn't about personal opinions on genre's, it is about games that are considered Killer Apps. Halo is considered a Killer App for the Xbox whether you or I love it or not. Killzone is supposed to be the "Halo-killer." My point is just that Killzone can't be a Halo killer, because *some people* will keep playing Halo regardless.

Sigh.. War is the H word :monkey:

But anyway, it was my understanding that a "killer app" isnt meant to stop people playing one game, more that it stops people buying a console for that game. A Killer app Killer will simply cancell out any selling power the competitors killer app has.
Apologies if you were just saying that to shut the halo haters up :/

Perhaps Ridge Racer could classify as a killer app killer. It did come along and steal a lot of Daytonas thunder.

guess what show that headline is from and your officially cool

[YoshiM]

There've been "killer app" killers for years. Thegreatescape hit it on the head about the what's and why's. One thing I don't agree on is the fact that the "killer app killer" is ALSO meant to stop or distract people from continuing to play the competition. For example, if Killzone is supposed to be the bag o' chips it was touted to be it's possible the Halo player might be interested to see what the hub-bub is all about and buy a copy (provided they have a PS2, of course). This can feed into word-of-mouth advertising as well ("Dude, you got Halo, right?" "Yeah, but I'm playing Killzone now. It's pretty cool.").

[Neonsolid]

Gone.

[soniko_karuto]

When one says such-and-such sucks, I'm aware that's a statement of opinion...but I think it's flat out stupid to argue that a game has no positive qualities (correct me if they've updated the thesaurus while I'm gone).

So basically, you're throwing out polarized garbage just to look like a hardass. Seriously, that's all this accomplishes.

That's an excellent post you make there, Ed. I shall add to it:

It's great to have an opinion, but don't troll. Posting because you know it's gonna ruffle feathers is not cool, and it makes you look less intelligent in the process.

It was not my intention to troll, really. If i don't like certain types of games, and i mentioned one, and then said that actually FOR ME that genre sucks, then what was i trolling for? If i had said that half life sucks, then the whole pc people would chase over me, it would have been the same with metroid, or whatever on the ps2.

Believe me, fps games on consoles just plain suck.

Man...STFU, you sound like a typical PC gaming geek. Are you saying Goldeneye sucked? you saying Perfect Dark sucked etc. O_O

for me, yes, they did both suck. horribly. And yes i did play them.

[brykasch]

Yeah he's a pc gaming snop when it comes to fps's, no matter how great it is on the console those type will always bag on it (oh it doesn't control like on the pc). Hey I felt that way, and ones I played halo I quickly got over the control argument. I play lot sof pc fps games (one of my fav genres) but console ones offer alot ( no constant patching, costly hardware upgrades etc). Plus you can actually get money for the games when they are sold.

[Jasoco]

28 and a half hours until Halo 2. SUCK IT, HALO HATERS! 8-)

[Nz17]

If anything Half Life killed Quake, because the next sequel was online only and we haven't heard anything about it since.

Um, then you haven't been following id/FPS news. Quake IV is the next game to enter id's development after DOOM III, so id is working on Quake IV right now.

[Jasoco]

The point is Quake was dead for a long time. Actually, so was Doom until they decided to bring it back. Half-Life killed Quake, even if only for a short while.

Besides, Quake IV will still suck. :P
Unless it's on a console. Then maybe I'll try it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Besides, Quake IV will still suck. :P
Unless it's on a console. Then maybe I'll try it.
All that time denying you're a fanboy and now this?

Well, for my two cents...if there's anybody with a chance of making Quake IV be awesome, it's Raven Software.

[Jasoco]

Besides, Quake IV will still suck. :P
Unless it's on a console. Then maybe I'll try it.
All that time denying you're a fanboy and now this?
Ever heard of sarcasm? You did see the :P, right? ;)

I never liked any of the Quakes either way. Hey.. maybe I AM a DOOM Fanboy! OMG! I like DOOM better than Quake! The world's gonna end!! Everybody say your prayers, it's all over! DOOM's better than Quake and it's all over!!

Okay, I'm done.

DOOM > Quake. And that does not make me a Fanboy, Ed.

[soniko_karuto]

Besides, Quake IV will still suck. :P
Unless it's on a console. Then maybe I'll try it.
All that time denying you're a fanboy and now this?
Ever heard of sarcasm? You did see the :P, right? ;)

I never liked any of the Quakes either way. Hey.. maybe I AM a DOOM Fanboy! OMG! I like DOOM better than Quake! The world's gonna end!! Everybody say your prayers, it's all over! DOOM's better than Quake and it's all over!!

Okay, I'm done.

DOOM > Quake. And that does not make me a Fanboy, Ed.

uhm, i'm lost here. or my sarcasm meter is broken. prolly the meter is broken, sure is.

[Jasoco]

Your Shift key's broken too. You should get that fixed.

[Ed Oscuro]

I saw that as a "nobody's changing my mind for me...so take it." Especially after that "I'm counting the hours whoopee I'm not a fanboy! I have a life and it consists of OMG ONLY 27 HOURS UNTIL HALO 2! OMG" http://www.digitpress.com/forum/images/smiles/Llol.gif Fuck if I know what's going through everybody's mind - that's life, and I misunderstood what you meant. I ain't losing sleep over it ;)

[Jasoco]

Me neither. Though I really should go to sleep. I gotta get up in 5 hours.

[Ed Oscuro]

Same here, lol.

[Jasoco]

Oh well. The way I see it, I get like 4 hours of sleep. Go to work. Come home 9 hours later. Sleep until 11:30. Drive up to GameStop. Play Halo 2 all night.

Not bad I must say. (Plus I have Tuesday off which makes it even better.)

Which reminds me. I have to get LIVE working again. It hasn't worked in months for some reason. :(