Used games are now illegal!

[maxlords]

In Japan at least! http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-1999/100799g.html :o

I wonder if the price of imports will jump once this really starts to take
effect?

[Kroogah]

It finally happened, eh? So now, when Japanese titles say "NO RESALE" on the back, they MEAN it. Ergh....I better load up on Saturn and Super Famicom stuff now....^_^

[slapdash]

In Japan at least! http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-1999/100799g.html

That article is over 3 years old however... Wouldn't prices have already gone up? I think that got shot down or overturned, or possibly misreported all along. Either that, or the Japanese aren't paying attention to it...

[Sega Hitman]

This is off the topic I guess, but has anyone else noticed the insane amount of SFC imports that are popping up on eBay? There are crazy amounts of SFC rpg's with low BIN's, and I always freak out when I see those. I'm like "whoa, Chrono Trigger for $10, holy hell!", and then I open it and see it's an import. Arrgh!!

-Hitman-

[maxlords]

In Japan at least! http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-1999/100799g.html

That article is over 3 years old however... Wouldn't prices have already gone up? I think that got shot down or overturned, or possibly misreported all along. Either that, or the Japanese aren't paying attention to it...

Actually, while the article in question is 3 years old, the law was actually changed a week or two ago. I just heard about it from a reputable friend of mine...I'll ask him for the sources he got it from. They've been trying to pass that law forever in Japan and the Supreme Court JUST passed it. More will follow when I have sources.

[Sothy]

ya dn the FBI will bust through the ceiling if you copy a vhs tape.

And its illegal to block pop up adds on the internet.


Pffft no one will give a $hit.

**gets the electric chair for removing the tag from mattress.**

[maxlords]

Don't be a moron Sothy...think about it. Either it will drive prices way up on stuff when enforcement kicks in, or the prices will drop like a rock cause everyone will sell on eBay only. That's good to know for import collectors...I just wish I could find the damned source for it or the specifics of the law. Think before you bash, boy!

And it's illegal to SELL copies of video tapes, but not to copy them...duh. The law says it's technically illegal to copy them, but it's not enforced unless you try and sell them for money.

Where in the worlds is it illegal to block popups? That makes NO sense.

[moycon]

Think before you bash, boy

What's there to think about?? You posted an article thats 3 years old. I've heard alot of stories about aliens from reputable sources, ya know that and 70 cents at a WaffleHouse will get you?? That's right...Not even a cup of coffee.

Until you can back up your statement I'd say anyone is free to bash away if they so choose.

I will agree with you on how it'll effect prices... It'll either raise them or lower them. I'll also add they might remain the same... guarantee it'll be one of those 3.

[Dobie]

Its starting to sound like MSNBC in here... "the stock market is either going to go down or up. But we don't know which. The guy with a suit and tie says its going to go down, and you should get into bonds. The other guys with a suit and tie says its going to go up, so get into technology. We, the hosts, don't know what the hell we're talking about. Still, its pertinent to your life in ways you can't even fathom, so stay tuned!!"

[gamingguy]

The Japanese haven't heard of property rights? If you buy a cartridge you own that cartridge. It's your property and you can do whatever you want with it including flushing down the toilet or re-selling it to a friend.

The only thing you can't do is copy the program (copyrights belong to the author). But the actual cart is your property and you have the God-given right to re-sell that cart if you wish.

Such a law wouldn't work in the U.S. It violates the Constitution. Guess the poor Japanese don't have a Bill of Rights.

[slapdash]

The Japanese haven't heard of property rights? If you buy a cartridge you own that cartridge. It's your property and you can do whatever you want with it including flushing down the toilet or re-selling it to a friend.

The only thing you can't do is copy the program (copyrights belong to the author). But the actual cart is your property and you have the God-given right to re-sell that cart if you wish.

Such a law wouldn't work in the U.S. It violates the Constitution. Guess the poor Japanese don't have a Bill of Rights.

Umm, I'm not trying to pick on you here, but let's go over a few things... You're confusing the Constitution with the Bill of Rights -- they're two different things... The Japanese do have a Constitution and probably a Bill of Rights or something like it, but said it would have to be the same thing anyway... And lastly, that law might not be unconstitutional anyway -- research some of the cases based on shrinkwrap agreements & software and you'll see that in the US we're potentially headed in that direction ourselves (sure, the cart is yours, but you've licensed -- not bought -- the program inside of it, so you can't pass the cart on until the software is erased; think that's too silly? do you know that some book publishers are trying to prevent "passaround" with electronic books because they hate the fact that people sell or loan or give away books they've purchased because they only get one sale out of that book; it's not just in games & electronics, and it's not just in Japan, that big business is trying to get more power over the consumer),

[Captain Wrong]

Hmm...I thought I read somewhere (yeah, I know, take it with a grain of salt) that it's been illegal to sell used games in Japan for a while and the stores that do sell them are really out of the way and kind of underground. I thought this was something on tsr's Nintendo site about his expirence game shopping in Japan.

Could it happen here? I don't know. I know there was a big push in the early 90's to ban used CD sales. Garth Brooks was a big celebrity voice behind that campaign. It didn't go anywhere though.

I know softwhere is a slightly different animal, but maybe any action in that area would peter out also.

I can say this, I think if used software is illegal, pirated software is going to increase. Bad idea, if you ask me.

[punkoffgirl]

Where's Chris K when you need him? Isn't he IN Japan?

[kobunheatforum]

Heh. I've been called out, I guess.

This issue is actually rather confusing to me since I keep hearing something different every year. As I understand it, these decisions are being made in the regional courts, not the national Supreme Court. So every individual decision only affects one area of the country.

And the thing is, they DON'T affect it that much. I noticed in Tokyo - where used game sales were in fact made illegal - that there were no stores that sold both new AND used games, like we had in Kanazawa at the time, and like there are in Kyoto and Osaka now.

I've never had a problem finding a used game store here. I'm wondering when they're going to start enforcing this law because doing so means putting a lot of stores right out of business.

The short answer is: even I'm not sure about what the law is, but there sure are a lot of used game stores in this country.

[WiseSalesman]

they hate the fact that people sell or loan or give away books they've purchased because they only get one sale out of that book; it's not just in games & electronics, and it's not just in Japan, that big business is trying to get more power over the consumer

Wow, the law that cancelled christmas. Has anyone pondered how this would effect gift giving? If this law were placed into effect, wouldn't it basically making giving books or software as presents illegal?

[Sothy]

Thats right BOY.

So show some respect fore ah take a WHUPPIN to ya.

[gamingguy]

Umm, I'm not trying to pick on you here, but let's go over a few things... You're confusing the Constitution with the Bill of Rights -- they're two different things...

The Bill of Rights are a subset of the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution includes the Bill of Rights as amendments 1 to 10. When you speak of the Constitution, you are also including amendments 1 to 26 as part of that Constitution. So any law that violates Bill of Rights (1-10) or any other amendments (11-26) is considered "unconstitutional" in the courts because it violates the Constitution too.

Whatever. When I bought Atari Pac-Man or Nintendo SuperMario, I didn't "license" the software. License agreements didn't exist back then, which means I bought the whole package: Hardware and 1 copy of the software. Both are in my possession and I can do whatever I wish with that posession except copy it (copyrights belong to the publisher).

IF it happened that used game selling was illegal I'd probably follow the tradition of the Founding Fathers and smuggle the goods via the black market. The government oversteps its bounds when it interferes with the property rights of free citizens. This includes not just re-selling of games, but also books, records, televisions, cars, and so on. Our property. Our right to sell or give away.



(Aside: I just sold a car to a colleague. Wouldn't it be silly if the government, on behalf of Chrysler Corporation, arrested me because the license agreement forbids me from transferring the car's >built-in engine software?< And forbids used car sales????? If selling the software in used cartridges is illegal, then the selling of software in used cars is equally illegal. Ditto DVD players, microwaves, tvs, stereos. Anything that has software in it will be illegal to sell.)

[slapdash]

they hate the fact that people sell or loan or give away books they've purchased because they only get one sale out of that book; it's not just in games & electronics, and it's not just in Japan, that big business is trying to get more power over the consumer

Wow, the law that cancelled christmas. Has anyone pondered how this would effect gift giving? If this law were placed into effect, wouldn't it basically making giving books or software as presents illegal?

I'm sure they'd either write a loophole that as long as YOU didn't use it, it would be okay. And there are always gift certificates.



Umm, I'm not trying to pick on you here, but let's go over a few things... You're confusing the Constitution with the Bill of Rights -- they're two different things...

The Bill of Rights are a subset of the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution includes the Bill of Rights as amendments 1 to 10. When you speak of the Constitution, you are also including amendments 1 to 26 as part of that Constitution. So any law that violates Bill of Rights (1-10) or any other amendments (11-26) is considered "unconstitutional" in the courts because it violates the Constitution too.

My apologies; perhaps I was thinking of the preamble as the Constitution itself. I tend to think of them as separate documents. But the point is still there -- Japan will have something equivalent; we no doubt forced them to after WWII. Probably used our own to base it on.


Whatever. When I bought Atari Pac-Man or Nintendo SuperMario, I didn't "license" the software. License agreements didn't exist back then, which means I bought the whole package: Hardware and 1 copy of the software. Both are in my possession and I can do whatever I wish with that posession except copy it (copyrights belong to the publisher).

Yes, but they're trying to change that. Microsoft has gotten unholy rich with some legal dancing about EULAs here and there, so everybody wants to do it. Why encrypt DVDs if most people can't copy them anyway? Businesses are getting more protective of their content even when (a) the content is already covered by a body of laws, and (b) it takes away consumers rights just to over-protect theirs.


IF it happened that used game selling was illegal I'd probably follow the tradition of the Founding Fathers and smuggle the goods via the black market. The government oversteps its bounds when it interferes with the property rights of free citizens. This includes not just re-selling of games, but also books, records, televisions, cars, and so on. Our property. Our right to sell or give away.

Yes, but you see, they're doing it anyway. The DMCA kills consumer rights in a big way (even commercial rights, pertaining to reverse-engineering and the like, and educational rights, insofar as publishing papers about new technologies)... Disney was able to buy their way into stretching the copyright laws in their favor so Mickey Mouse wouldn't enter the public domain on its original schedule... It's sick.


(Aside: I just sold a car to a colleague. Wouldn't it be silly if the government, on behalf of Chrysler Corporation, arrested me because the license agreement forbids me from transferring the car's >built-in engine software?< And forbids used car sales????? If selling the software in used cartridges is illegal, then the selling of software in used cars is equally illegal. Ditto DVD players, microwaves, tvs, stereos. Anything that has software in it will be illegal to sell.)

Right. But Chrysler has a lot of money, and it's in their best interest to force you to buy a new car instead of a used one, or worse yet, force everyone to lease them. They may try yet...