HDTV + Older Systems = Good/Bad (Opinions and Questions)

[NintendoMan]

HELLO EVERYONE. Well this weekend I am thinking of getting an HDTV. I am tired of my regular tv and have been wanting an HDTV for quite some time. I would have had one by now but I always think "Why get a new tv, just think about all those games I can get". This excuse isn't working anymore though.

My question is if I get an HDTV will my SMS and NES work just fine on them or will there be problems?? I mean I don't need the picture to be any better, just the same as always. Or is the picture better on some games? (For some reason I have heard before that older systems and games don't work well on HDTV's????)

Also, with the, I think it's the "S" video cable that use can order from Nintendo and have to order from Nintendo directly, does it really make a difference when you hook it up from the GC to your HDTV?
(And don't DVD players have the same thing too. I guess you would have to change them out when you wanted to use one or the other)

Anyways, I know a few topics have been sort of about this before, I have searched a little, but nothing "solid" answered any of my questions. And there is no way in hell I will be getting an HDTV if it can't play my older games. Even though I am dying to see the newer stuff in action on an HDTV!!

THANKS FOR ANY HELP! :)

[JLukas]

The older systems will work fine.

The clearer picture of a more expensive set can be a hit or miss with some consoles. For example, PSX games look pretty awful, you can now see the poor, pixelated textures easily. The 8 and 16 bit consoles look fine though. GC, PS2 and Xbox look amazing.

On a similar note, HDTVs usually have a line doubler option, that trys to take standard signals and make them HDTV. The quality can vary, if the picture doesn't look that great, look in the TVs manual to find the option to turn it off.

With the Gamecube, what you want is not the s-video cable, but the COMPONENT cable. It has red, green, blue cables for video, and the standard red and white for audio. It's only available at Nintendo's online store. You must use those to get a 480p (progressive scan) HDTV signal on the games that support it. For games without pro-scan, the component cable signal still looks slightly better than s-video cables.

If you're also getting a DVD player, make sure it does pro-scan and you'll have to buy the component cables for that as well. The newer model PS2s can do it, too.

One other tip for buying a set, make sure it has at least 2 component inputs. Switching does become a big pain after awhile.

[BenT]

The only thing that really needs mentioned is the line doubler thing. The vast majority of HDTVs do not allow this feature to be disabled, so old games will look chunky and possibly other bad adjectives.

If you really want to see your old games the way they were meant to be displayed, you should probably get a normal SDTV (you know, a TV that has visible, horizontal scanlines) to complement the HDTV. Use one for old games and the other for current stuff. Best of both worlds.

[Anthony1]

Actually, a HDTV can be one of the best possible displays imaginable to display old school systems.


But here is the key.....


Emulators on a Modded XBOX (at 1080i or 720p resolution) are going to give you the best picture that is currently possible with alot of older systems.


When it comes to the NES, I really haven't seen a better picture, than the NES emulator on the XBOX, running on a HDTV in 1080i mode, with XBOX TriLinear filtering turned on, and running in SuperScale 2X mode.

I'm telling you, you will never see a better picture of NES games than this. Had the NES featured RGB, then a better picture might be had on a RGB monitor with the proper cable, but the NES doesn't do RGB at all.

I know it is considered blasphemy by most to play emulators rather than the real thing, and I typically agree with that, but you really have to see this NES emulator running in 1080i, via a modded XBOX on a HTDV that can properly display that 1080i signal. It's pretty freaking amazing.

When it comes to the Genesis, this also has an amazing picture on a modded XBOX, in terms of the emulator. Very, very, very close to a RGB quality signal. Almost but not quite. But for the non videophile, they will be more than pleased with the image quality they get with the NeoGenesis emulator on a modded XBOX hooked up to a HDTV.

The key with this though, is to actually get a HDTV that also can actually display 720P. Most HDTV's only do 1080i and 480p. Some of them will take a 720p signal, and down convert to 480p, which is not a good thing. If at all possible, you want a TV that can actually display both a native 1080i signal, as well as a native 720p signal.

It might cost a few hundred more to get a HDTV that can "truly" display both 1080i and 720p, but believe me, in the long run you will be so glad that you did.

The Genesis in 720p via a modded XBOX, is truly amazing. The SNES emulator in 720p is pretty damn good as well.

I've never tried the SMS emulator on the XBOX, so I'm not sure how that works.

By the way, the Atari 2600 has a emulator on the XBOX that will also run in 1080i.

[Anthony1]

If you can't bring yourself to play emulators on the XBOX in 1080i and 720p with the Tri Linear filtering turned on, and in Super Scale 2X mode, then you should actually bring the systems that you are going to use on it, to the store, and actually test them out on the set that you are going to buy.


Make sure the set does 720p and 1080i and 480p. You can't go wrong with that. I'm telling you, if you ever get a XBOX, then you can play a game like Amped 2 in 720p, and your jaw will be dropping all over the floor.

You also absolutely have to get the Component cable for the GameCube. Seeing games like Metroid Prime on the Cube in 480p, is pretty amazing. Awesome picture quality.

[alexkidd2000]

I have a 51" Toshiba HDTV and I love playing the old game systems on it. Emulation is the way to go of course, using the rf adapters will look like poo. I havent tried the Xbox, but my Dreamcast on S-Video looks pretty sharp playing sms, nes, genesis etc.

[dj898]

assuming your HDTV doesn't do RGB you will need some kind of converter/transcoder to convert RGB into YUV as Component input is much common on HDTV than RGB...

Either way not a cheap by any means...
I've tried to hook up DC, SS, PS and mod'd PC Engine Duo using RGB->YUV transcoder on Plasma screen. Not bad I might add although Xbox/GC win hands down...

cheers

[NintendoMan]

With the Gamecube, what you want is not the s-video cable, but the COMPONENT cable. It has red, green, blue cables for video, and the standard red and white for audio. It's only available at Nintendo's online store. You must use those to get a 480p (progressive scan) HDTV signal on the games that support it. For games without pro-scan, the component cable signal still looks slightly better than s-video cables.

If you're also getting a DVD player, make sure it does pro-scan and you'll have to buy the component cables for that as well. The newer model PS2s can do it, too.

One other tip for buying a set, make sure it has at least 2 component inputs. Switching does become a big pain after awhile.

THANKS ALOT for the info so far JLukas, BenT, Anthony1, alexkidd2000, and dj898!!

All the info has definately been helpful. Oh yeah, I forgot it was the component cable that I need for the GC and not the S cable.

One thing that has been a little fuzzy though is if older games will work on the HDTV fine though. I mean NOT using emulation. If this helps any the oldest system that I will be using on it is the NES.

And I do get how that you might be able to see the fuzzyness or bad textures more on a system like the PS1. I bet N64would probably be pretty bad too. (But I assume it would still have to look better on an HDTV than a regular)

[NintendoMan]

then you should actually bring the systems that you are going to use on it, to the store, and actually test them out on the set that you are going to buy.

You also absolutely have to get the Component cable for the GameCube. Seeing games like Metroid Prime on the Cube in 480p, is pretty amazing. Awesome picture quality.

That's a great idea, bringing them to the store!!

And if I do get one (An HDTV that is) I will definately be buying the component cable. This is a little off topic, but what is the cable called that people use for their DVD players, for the better picture I mean?? (I don't know why I don't have one of these yet, isn't called the S-Cable)

Also one more question about HDTV. I hear all the 480p, 720P numbers. Is there like somekind of menu on the TV to change things like that?
THANKS ALOT!!
:)

[aricoboyo]

Hey dj, what converter are you using to convert RGB to Component? I've been thinking about picking one up, but I just wasn't sure which one was the best to get...

[dj898]

I will have to look up from the unit.
I do know it's from UK though...

will get back to ya mate...

[dj898]

THANKS ALOT for the info so far JLukas, BenT, Anthony1, alexkidd2000, and dj898!!

All the info has definately been helpful. Oh yeah, I forgot it was the component cable that I need for the GC and not the S cable.

One thing that has been a little fuzzy though is if older games will work on the HDTV fine though. I mean NOT using emulation. If this helps any the oldest system that I will be using on it is the NES.

And I do get how that you might be able to see the fuzzyness or bad textures more on a system like the PS1. I bet N64would probably be pretty bad too. (But I assume it would still have to look better on an HDTV than a regular)

you do realise with YUV/RGB you will be watching every flaw of last-gen consoles. On TV the blurring helps to mask these flaws but on RGB you can see their full glory - or crap... :)

it's like watching Capcom fighter on DC with telly and VGA connection. You will actually prefer the TV over VGA as those horrible pixelation can be too much on VGA...

YMMV of coz

cheers

[Anthony1]

Also one more question about HDTV. I hear all the 480p, 720P numbers. Is there like somekind of menu on the TV to change things like that?
THANKS ALOT!!
:)


Actually, what happens is that whatever you are watchng on your TV will have a particular signal. Like 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i, etc,etc. Your TV then will just make a decision on how best to display that.

Then main thing that I wanted to warn you about, is to make sure to get a HDTV that will "natively" display 720p.

Almost every HDTV will dsiplay 1080i and 480p. But not that many will actually really display 720p.

If you get one that really does display 720p, then you will be much better off for the future.

XBOX Next and the PS3 and the next Nintendo system are all going to most likely display games at 720p.

And there are a number of XBOX games right now that output 720p.

You might have to pay $200 more than you were planning to, to get the 720p capability, but believe me. In the long run it will be worth it.


Also, if you end up getting a Direct TV HDTV reciever, make sure to get one that has the option of outputting 720p instead of 1080i. I think the ones by Samsung do that. That way all the HDTV shows in 720p will look better on your HDTV than most HDTV's. Stuff like Monday Night Football, and Fox Sunday NFL Football.

[NintendoMan]

Also one more question about HDTV. I hear all the 480p, 720P numbers. Is there like somekind of menu on the TV to change things like that?
THANKS ALOT!!
:)


Actually, what happens is that whatever you are watchng on your TV will have a particular signal. Like 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i, etc,etc. Your TV then will just make a decision on how best to display that.

Then main thing that I wanted to warn you about, is to make sure to get a HDTV that will "natively" display 720p.

Almost every HDTV will dsiplay 1080i and 480p. But not that many will actually really display 720p.

If you get one that really does display 720p, then you will be much better off for the future.

XBOX Next and the PS3 and the next Nintendo system are all going to most likely display games at 720p.

And there are a number of XBOX games right now that output 720p.

You might have to pay $200 more than you were planning to, to get the 720p capability, but believe me. In the long run it will be worth it.


Also, if you end up getting a Direct TV HDTV reciever, make sure to get one that has the option of outputting 720p instead of 1080i. I think the ones by Samsung do that. That way all the HDTV shows in 720p will look better on your HDTV than most HDTV's. Stuff like Monday Night Football, and Fox Sunday NFL Football.

OK, Anthony1. THANKS for the info again! It definately sounds like you know alot about TV's and such. I know alot about the sound part (surround sound setups, etc.) but know basically nothing about TV's, knowadays anyway.

Also, will an s-video cable work, the cables that made DVD players better picture qulaity, with regular TV's. I mean ones that aren't HDTV??

[NintendoMan]

THANKS ALOT for the info so far JLukas, BenT, Anthony1, alexkidd2000, and dj898!!
to look better on an HDTV than a regular)

you do realise with YUV/RGB you will be watching every flaw of last-gen consoles. On TV the blurring helps to mask these flaws but on RGB you can see their full glory - or crap... :)

it's like watching Capcom fighter on DC with telly and VGA connection. You will actually prefer the TV over VGA as those horrible pixelation can be too much on VGA...

YMMV of coz

cheers

Thanks DJ898.

Well after all this, I am thinking of just buying an HDTV for my huge DVD collection. I don't know, I don't want to sound like a baby but i just sounds like too much trouble to use it with my videogames. (Well I definately do need a new TV, and at the current moment I don't have the funds to buy 2 new ones, one regular and one HDTV. I can either get one or the other)

It maybe sounds like I should just get a new Flat Screen TV, minus the HD. But I see what everyone who has posted so far about seeing the problem areas in games that you might not have previously seen before.

In the beginning I just wanted an HDTV to play everything on. All my systems and DVD's.
Is it really that much of a difference playing older games on HDTV.

What I might end up doing is buying an HDTV and just set something else up in my room and put my old tv on that. Who Knows. I am going to what and see what systems would be better to play on which TV.
ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED! Thanks so much!!
Everyone has been unbelievably helpful!

[NintendoMan]

Here is a list and if someone could please tell me what would work better. (On which TV I mean, should I play those systems on) Or maybe what systems will work even at all. I mean I definately don't want to play my NES on it if I all can see is all kind of flaws.
Here are my systems:

Sega Genesis
DC
NES
SNES
N64
GC

THANK YOU!

[BenT]

you do realise with YUV/RGB you will be watching every flaw of last-gen consoles. On TV the blurring helps to mask these flaws but on RGB you can see their full glory - or crap... :)

it's like watching Capcom fighter on DC with telly and VGA connection. You will actually prefer the TV over VGA as those horrible pixelation can be too much on VGA...

YMMV of cozMy mileage does vary. ;)

I disagree because I think what you're saying is only true if the image in question (the image from a low-res game) is line-doubled, which it certainly, unfortunately is on a VGA monitor or HDTV.

On an SDTV, even via Component or RGB, the TV will still display the scanlines that are so important to a low-res game's image quality. So, you'll get the pin-sharp color and detail reproduction inherent in these high-end signal types but it won't look like crap. It doesn't "bring out the flaws" ... it brings out the best picture quality possible.

I don't consider 8- and 16-bit games ugly when displayed properly. It's just that most people don't know how to display them properly these days. I really need to get off my ass and make the web page I've been threatening to make on this subject.

[NintendoMan]

you do realise with YUV/RGB you will be watching every flaw of last-gen consoles. On TV the blurring helps to mask these flaws but on RGB you can see their full glory - or crap... :)

it's like watching Capcom fighter on DC with telly and VGA connection. You will actually prefer the TV over VGA as those horrible pixelation can be too much on VGA...

YMMV of cozMy mileage does vary. ;)

I disagree because I think what you're saying is only true if the image in question (the image from a low-res game) is line-doubled, which it certainly, unfortunately is on a VGA monitor or HDTV.

On an SDTV, even via Component or RGB, the TV will still display the scanlines that are so important to a low-res game's image quality. So, you'll get the pin-sharp color and detail reproduction inherent in these high-end signal types but it won't look like crap. It doesn't "bring out the flaws" ... it brings out the best picture quality possible.

I don't consider 8- and 16-bit games ugly when displayed properly. It's just that most people don't know how to display them properly these days. I really need to get off my ass and make the web page I've been threatening to make on this subject.

Thanks. That would definatley be cool if you made a web page about this kind of stuff!

[blissfulnoise]

There are a ton of other things that haven't even been mentioned.

Burn in, DLP rainbows, dedicated component ports (480p vs 480p/720p/1080i), LCD maintenance, plasma hum, service menu tweaks, etc that are very critical in making your selection on a new TV.

I strongly suggest you visit AVSForum.com and research your potential new TV in great detail before making a purchase.

The short story is, if you don't want to have to deal with stuff, just buy a nice direct view set (i'm partial to the WEGA line, but YMMV). If you want an optimal visual experience, do your research, and figure out what you'd like to buy.

My personal opinion? Do not buy a rear projection CRT television if you plan on hooking up your "retro" game systems.

[dj898]

Hey dj, what converter are you using to convert RGB to Component? I've been thinking about picking one up, but I just wasn't sure which one was the best to get...

it's CSY-2100 from CPY in UK.
can't recall how much I paid but it wasn't cheap... :(

[SkiDragon]

I have been researching this for a while, and I decided that I would be best off with a TV that does progressive scan and not HDTV. That way I can play Xbox and some other new games in their "best" mode (very few games do 720p or 1080i), and I can also play everything else without the distortion caused by an HDTVs extra lines. Is this a good choice?

I hope so, but unfortunately, I can hardly find any TVs like this. The only one I can find is this one.

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=TXP2745PX%2fXAA

But interestingly, it costs more than the HDTV I currently have which is the same size.

[dj898]

good luck finding 480p TV that is NOT HDTV. :D
unless you want TV with line doubler - often called 100Hz or something like that. Of coz you don't want that.

If you are unsure just get the 4:3 format HDTV although it will be hard to find one nowadays seeing widescreen is the in. :p

stretched 4:3 on 16:9 doesn't necessarily bad thing. Some games look fine - Halo being one - while others look funny. Also many of HDTV have what they call Panorama mode which basically leave the centre of the screen where the actions are at their correct ratio and gradually stretch both sides... After few years I'm used to this kind of stretching and it doesn't really bothers me anymore...

do a test drive and see for yourself mate

cheers

[GaijinPunch]

Wanted to warn you about, is to make sure to get a HDTV that will "natively" display 720p.

I dont' think this is true. Smaller HDTVs (like my my 26" Aquos) can display a 1080i signal, but at 720i. It doesn't have the res to handle 1080i, AFAIK.

Anyways, 16-bit emulators in 1080i on the Xbox? Bah -- crap. You're playing something that was meant to have scanlines on the highest resoultion possible today. Doesn't look natural, although it's liveable. If the emulator features "light scanlines" it looks even more natural.

[dj898]

NeoGeo Metal Slug on Xbox - yea baby! :D
seriously it's much more fun than Xbox release Metal Slug 3...

cheers

[Sylentwulf]

Here's my obligatory post for new TV's.
If you're dumping this much money, DON'T ask on a videogame forum
Do some ACTUAL RESEARCH at this site:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

[SoulBlazer]

Modern games are amazing on a large HDTV widescreen TV -- Star Ocean 3 alone justified the payment for it.

Trying out older systems on various TV's is probaly a good way to go.

Look for my posts also -- I just went through the whole 'buying new TV' thing recently. ;)

[NintendoMan]

Here's my obligatory post for new TV's.
If you're dumping this much money, DON'T ask on a videogame forum
Do some ACTUAL RESEARCH at this site:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

THANKS ALOT! I will be checking that site out for sure.
And yes, it is alot of money going into the TV. Right now I just have a regular tv, no hdtv, flat screen, etc. that I bought in '01. I am already tired of it though and have finally decided to get an HDTV.

The reason for me asking this site for advice is because I basically want to know the best TV to play my videogames on. I mean I want the better pic. for my HUGE DVD collection that I have, but it's for my love and passion. Videogames. I want a TV that will play my GC games and look great as well as my NES games and look like they are suppossed to. If that is possible. That was the main question that I needed answered.
:)

[dj898]

basically there is HDTV and then there is EDTV. Maybe you haven't heard this term as I myself haven't heard EDTV for some time now and probably nowadays it's all HDTV anyway.

with DVD the best picture you can get would be 480p using prog-scan DVD player. And DTV offers several different resolution between 480i/480p/720p/1080i and majority of HDTV support some of these resolution - just not all of them unless you are looking at the top - mid range models. It's common most HDTV supports 480i/480p/1080i so which ever HDTV you edned up getting you will be alright - as long as you have no plan to use Xbox or next-gen consoles as they will be more than likely use 720p/1080i.

The question is how long you will be keeping your new HDTV. If it's more than 5 years it will be wise to get one that supports 480p/720p/1080i without upconvert/downconvert. On the other hand if you will be replacing in 2-3 years I'd say go for the cheaper one...

seeing you are concentrating at 480p I'd say go for the model ofering best 480p picture your eyes can tell...

cheers

[NintendoMan]

Modern games are amazing on a large HDTV widescreen TV -- Star Ocean 3 alone justified the payment for it.

Trying out older systems on various TV's is probaly a good way to go.

Look for my posts also -- I just went through the whole 'buying new TV' thing recently. ;)

Ah man, SO3 is beautiful alone in the first place, then put it on an HDTV! WOW! (Well at least I can imangine it it)

I check your posts right after this. I must of missed your posts on buying a new tv. Somehow. (Since I am on here everyday)

What I was and am really asking from ya'll is if you guys use the same TV for your older games (not emulated, ACTUAL SYSTEM) and play your newer games on the same tv. If so, which TV do you have.
I have had my eye on the normal 27' TV from SONY HDTV. I might splurge and get the 32' though.

I still need to do some more research.

[dethink]

my "temporary residence" has a 36" WEGA in the living room, and i hooked my PS2 up to the composite ports in the front just to see what it looked like...

GT3 looked like CARP!!1 in it's 16x9 mode (jaggies galore), but katamari damacy looked great.

[SoulBlazer]

Yeah, Star Ocean 3 just looks jaw dropping on my new Sony 36 Inch Widescren HDTV. The game has widescreen support -- one of the few modern games that has that -- so it looks natrual. Combined with the good TV and cables, I was blown away.

I'm a modern gamers, but one of the reasons I paid extra money for a 'normal' TV and not a projection model was so that I could avoid any chance of burn in. And projections still have that slight 'got to be dead on' problem. Personaly, I'd pay the extra money and do what I do -- get a normal TV (widescreen or not) that is HD Ready. Then you can upgrade when and if you decide to watching HD programing. 1080 support is also important.

But yeah, go find my threads. LOL

[NintendoMan]

Yeah, Star Ocean 3 just looks jaw dropping on my new Sony 36 Inch Widescren HDTV. The game has widescreen support -- one of the few modern games that has that -- so it looks natrual. Combined with the good TV and cables, I was blown away.

I'm a modern gamers, but one of the reasons I paid extra money for a 'normal' TV and not a projection model was so that I could avoid any chance of burn in. And projections still have that slight 'got to be dead on' problem. Personaly, I'd pay the extra money and do what I do -- get a normal TV (widescreen or not) that is HD Ready. Then you can upgrade when and if you decide to watching HD programing. 1080 support is also important.

But yeah, go find my threads. LOL

Coolness, THANKS!

All that stuff you have sounds awesome. I will definately be more into that when I can actually afford it. I plan on getting ALL the top notch stuff to make my game expierence better.

With me being in school, and barely ever working, I have to settle for less. That's alright though, well for now at least.

[Mad Chemist]

basically there is HDTV and then there is EDTV. Maybe you haven't heard this term as I myself haven't heard EDTV for some time now and probably nowadays it's all HDTV anyway.

You must not've looked at plasma televisions recently. Most low-end plasmas up to 42 inches or so are EDTV. Most of the traditional tube sets and projectors ARE HDTV, but try hanging one of those on a wall. :)

The problem with an HD set is that it will show off any flaws in the signal you put in. I didn't realize how lousy cable was around here until I got my plasma TV. DVDs and modern consoles, though, are simply jaw-dropping. Star Ocean 3 on an HD plasma screen is a sight to behold.

For retrogaming, you might find the 16:9 screen size a little problematic. You can switch to a 4:3 picture (which puts bars on the left and right), but for some TVs that's not recommended. You can also use "panorama" or "super zoom" mode to make a 4:3 picture look more natural on a 16:9 set, but for many games, it's distracting. The larger the set is, the more distracting I find the picture stretching.

[SoulBlazer]

Hey, I would have liked to have gone Plasma also, but it was WAY out of my price range. ;)

I think the $1600 I spent on my 34 inch Sony Widescreen HD Ready Triniton was good enough. :D

[dj898]

basically there is HDTV and then there is EDTV. Maybe you haven't heard this term as I myself haven't heard EDTV for some time now and probably nowadays it's all HDTV anyway.

You must not've looked at plasma televisions recently. Most low-end plasmas up to 42 inches or so are EDTV. Most of the traditional tube sets and projectors ARE HDTV, but try hanging one of those on a wall. :)


I know those ED PDP but most shps advertise them as if they are HDTV and unless you know the difference you think wow! tha's good price for Plasma screen... :p

For stretching after two years you won't notice it. Trust me on that.. :D
cheers

[Iron Draggon]

I don't consider 8- and 16-bit games ugly when displayed properly. It's just that most people don't know how to display them properly these days. I really need to get off my ass and make the web page I've been threatening to make on this subject.

Please do that, because I'm a 16BIT junkie, and I have no idea what half the folks here are even talking about. It's not an issue for me yet, but whenever I finally get a new TV, which I may be doing soon, it will be. All my systems are 8BIT, 16BIT, 32BIT, 64BIT, 128BIT, but I still don't own any of the new consoles yet, so I'm way more concerned about making sure all my classics look right than I am about making sure all my current systems look the best.

I don't have S-video cables for any of them either, just the standard RCA yellow, red, white, cables. This seems to make everything look excellent on my 35" Toshiba, which I'm sure I'll keep as long as possible even if I do get a new TV, but eventually it will die and by that time there won't be anything but the newest types of TV's available. So I'm gonna have to know all this stuff sooner or later, and I'm sure there's tons of other gamers just like me.

I don't think it ever even occurred to all these TV manufacturers just how many people only use their TV's for playing games, and they sure don't seem to be taking into account how many of those people only play retro games. So I would add some sort of petition or at least a list of email addresses for all the big name TV manufacturers, asking them to make their TV's with all the necessary capabilities being discussed here, so all us retro gamers can stay on their asses and push for this sort of thing while the technology is still new for the majority of people. That way we might have a hope of this sort of thing becoming standard features in most new TV's, before they get out of the early adopters phase that they're in right now and all the new TV formats become widespread. It's gonna be a very sad day if all us retro gamers have to look as hard for an old TV capable of displaying our favorite games the way they were meant to be displayed as we do to find the games we want. And you know at the rate we're going now, that day won't be far away.

I also have a question. I may be in the market for a new TV very soon, and it's primarily gonna be used for playing retro games and watching DVD's. It probably won't be any bigger than 35", if it's even that big, maybe 27" or smaller. Which would be better for me if I do upgrade to one of the newer technologies instead of sticking with just a standard display, EDTV, SDTV, HDTV, or Plasma, and what is the difference between all of these? It may be a good idea to answer these sorts of questions on your webpage too, as I'm sure there's tons of other people just like me who have no idea what the answers to all those questions are either. I don't even know what all the differences are between standard RCA & S-video cables. I really only know that I've heard of them both, but I couldn't tell you very much about the difference between VGA & SVGA, or even what RGB is except that I know it stands for red, green, blue, and that's the 3 colors necessary for displaying every color that a TV can possibly display. Beyond that, I'm not a videophile anymore than I'm an audiophile, and I'm still very new to all these different technologies. Plus I'm studying to be a tech too, so I need to know all this!

So really the only thing that I know anything about so far, as far as displays are concerned, is what all the differences are between CRT's & LCD's. That's all that I'm required to know for my exams, since I'm studying to be a PC tech, not a TV tech. But it wouldn't hurt me to know all this stuff at all, especially since alot of it may be used for PC displays in the near future as well. I know it's gonna happen, now that multimedia PC's are beginning to catch on, so I'm sure that alot of this stuff is gonna be added to the tests sometime after I finish school. It's just a matter of time. But anyhow, right now my biggest concern would be what I should get, if I get a new TV. I want something with the future in mind, that will still do my systems justice.

So a really good webpage that explains all this stuff, or at least what every gamer like myself needs to know, would be extremely helpful. I doubt that there's very much out there about all this stuff as it pertains to us gamers already, and what is out there probably only discusses the current consoles, for the most part. It's kinda scary. It's only been a little more than 10 years since the birth of 16BIT, and only a little more than 5 years since the death of it, and I'm already watching my favorite era in gaming become the golden age of obsolete antiques. If I didn't love all the games so much, I'd sell them all right now while they can all still be played by most people, before they all become just a big collection of old silicon scrap that isn't good for anything else because nothing exists for playing them all anymore. We aren't gonna have anything but emulators for a choice anymore, the way things are going.

[dj898]

there are web pages out there explaining these terms and all but not on the single place and you will have to do some finger walk. :p

In a nut shell you can think of these terms as below. (I know it's very crude and may not accurate but will give you an broad understanding before get into too much techno babble.)

SDTV - basically the tube TV you are looking at with digital STB attached.

EDTV - enhanced digital TV and mainly used in some part of Europe as they adopted EDTV standard to save some bandwidth.

HDTV - full spectrum of digital TV covers from 480i (that's the old tube TV you are looking at) to 1080i (this gives almost looking out the window wow factor shown on the proper display). This cover whole range of resolutions but the main ones used are 480p/1080i with some network/game console offering 720p.

CRT - it's the old tube you've been using for many moons now. It's still good and latest models offer surprisingly good picture given that you are prepared to pay their asking price :p

PDP - Plasma screen. Now they are offering 4th/5th generation panels and many of shortcoming of early PDP have been addressed/fixed. Some latest panel now offers billions of graduations which is very close to what you see on HQ tube TV... With PDP there are two sub categories - one called ED Panel and the other being HD panel. With ED you get 860 x 480 resolution which is great for DVD or EDTV but many of these downconvert 720p/1080i to 480p to display and as you can guess you are losing the information - some panel does this better than others. With PDP you can get the size over 61" and smallest one you can get is around 32".

LCD - this is next big thing apparently but still need to catch up with PDP. Unlike PDP where bigger size is norm LCD at the compatible size (42") costs way more than PDP counter apart. Till the price is down to PDP level you won't see many large screen LCD TV flying off the shop shelf. This is what you use with your computer but at lower resolution - remember normal TV is only 860 x 480 but most cheap LCD monitor nowadays is 1024 x 768? Also cheap LCD TV is suffering from ghosting - the same reason why you don't want to play FPS on LCD monitor unless yours has fast response time of 16 ms or less...

RF - you know what this is. You've used it with your Genesis/MegaDrive :p

Composite - Yellow RCA jack found on almost all TV nowadays. The second lowest in terms of picture quality as you are combining all the signals into a single wire and then they have to be separated at the other end... as you can guess this wouldn't be an ideal

S-Video - now you are separating into two signals so the chance of them interfering is less and you get much sharper picture providing your TV has proper S-Video input. Some cheap TV may has S-Video but internally wired to composite giving virtually same PQ as composite... (this is very brief and abstract explanation so I'm sure someone can explain in much simpler term)

Component - often called YUV as now we are sending three signals on separate wires. Most of HDTV have the Component input. Be cautious though as some TV have two Component input but one is for interlaced signal(480i) only and the other for progressive signal(480p/1080i) only.

RGB - often people mistaken this as Scart but RGB is separate from Scart. Scart is the type of socket commonly used in Europe but Scart can carry composite/S-Video as well as RGB. With RGB you are basically sending RGB signals for TV to display as there is no need to decode/separate since pure signals are now sent to TV. Although this is interlaced only signal in terms of PQ you are getting the closest to what the picture was supposedly look like. Many of 16bit consoles offer RGB cables and this will give you the perfect PQ. Sadly this is not very popular outside Europe and getting TV with RGB input will be hard and getting of those RGB monitors is even harder as these things were meant for professionals and never sold to the public. If you ever come across RGB monitor at decent price snap it up.

cheers

p.s. feel free to correct as I tried to explain in very basic terms and in the process might have made things more confusing? :p

[Iron Draggon]

COOL, thanks for all the info! You only lost me on STB at the very beginning. What is that? Beyond that, I think you've pretty much answered most of my questions. So I need to get S-video cables & RGB cables for all the systems I can get them for, and component cables are gonna replace both of those, but I can forget about that when it comes to all my current retro consoles.

Then I probably wanna go with HDTV, but it has to have all the options and be hideously expensive. The more ports it has the better, the same reason why I spent way too much money on my 35" Toshiba several years ago. The main reason why I bought that TV, besides the fact that it has a far better picture quality because it has a far higher resolution than most TV's do, was because of all the ports it has on the front and back. So I have all the ports I need for any type of connection, I just never bought all the better cables. I stuck with RCA because most of my systems came with them, and it was the easiest to find those for the few systems that didn't come with them.

I don't really have any complaints with either one of my TV's though. I also have one of those Samsung GXTV's, which is like a mini 13" version of my 35" Toshiba, complete with all the same ports. Both RF & RCA look great on them, as far as I'm concerned. Of course RCA looks a little better than RF, but both work well enough for me. The only problem that I'm having is that I think the picture tube on my Samsung is going out. It may just be alot of interference, because TV reception upstairs sucks no matter where you are in the house or what TV you're watching, but none of my consoles play the same way they used to on it. They all go from decent quality video to crap and back again while I'm playing, and I've checked all my connections. It's not the consoles or the games, it's the TV. So that's why I may be in the market for a new one soon. It's time to replace that one. I've heard that all the GXTV's eventually have the same sort of problems, so I think it's almost time for mine to start showing signs of the same problems. I've had it ever since they dropped the price on them, so it's entertained me for years now.

I'd like to get another Toshiba, since my 35" still compares very favorably to what I've seen of what's available now. It still looks as good as it did when I first got it, and it looks almost as good as all the new TV's, so it was money very well spent. And I've never had any problems with it at all, so I've come to favor Toshiba over any other brand. My VCR is a Toshiba, and if I ever get my own DVD player, it's probably gonna be a Toshiba too. In fact, I need to get myself a DVD player before I get a new TV, or just get one at the same time. We have two now, but one was a gift and the other one belongs to my sister, so neither one of them is mine and I didn't pick them out. And needless to say, neither one is in my room. I have to watch my DVD's on my computer, or watch them on one of the other players, which is a big pain. So what I need is a nice TV that I can play games on and watch movies on without having to deal with the family on my 35" downstairs. They're way too distracting. That's why I moved all my consoles upstairs into my room.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Surprised no one has mentioned light gun compatability here yet...

[dj898]

COOL, thanks for all the info! You only lost me on STB at the very beginning. What is that?

It's Set Top Box. Think of it as cable decoder box but for digital broadcast. As most tube TV weren't designed for digital broadcast you need a gadget to interpret the DTV signal into something your TV can understand.

There are now DTV with built-in digital tuner but still you will need STB for HD digital broadcasting.


And for light gun compatibility with HDTV you can forget it. There is exception but the majority of HDTV won't work well if at all with light gun. Light gun seeks the location of interlaced signal on the screen whereas many of HDTV now upconvert the incoming signal to either 480p or 1080i to display on the screen...


cheers

[Iron Draggon]

OK, thanks for killing two birds with one stone. Now I not only know what STB stands for, but I also know there's no way in hell I'm giving up all my light gun games just for some funky higher resolution that's probably gonna make all my games look like crap anyhow. Those HDTV manufacturers need to address that issue too. Menacer & Super Scope are way too fun to play with, even if they never did make very many games for them, and Lethal Enforcers 1 & 2 are a blast to play also. As are all the American Laserworks games on 3DO, and the ones on Saturn & Playstation which I've yet to get guns for, but certainly will relatively soon as I collect more for those systems. I just bought Policenauts, so a Saturn gun is on my list, and I'm planning to pick up a copy of Project Horned Owl for PS again, which I foolishly sold in a fit of needing cash for some unremembered reason. So I have way to many light gun games to give all that up already, and I'm still collecting more too.

[dj898]

I have SONY Waga TV at our guest room where most of my PS, SS, DC are hooked up to it. It only does composite but for freebie can't complain I suppose... :p

maybe in future we will replace it with either current Plasma screen we use as main TV as we will be upgrading to 61" one or LCD TV if the technology is good enough by then...

with the space at premium with our place we can't afford big furniture or other appliances to take up the space... :(
I'm already get hassled by missus to get rid of mnay of my collection and that's why more than half of my collections are either at the garage or at the storage building... which is pain the backside to get... :(

cheers