*sniffles* Growlanser pushed back, yet again

[Joelius]

Wow, pushed back again is Growlanswer: Generations. Now shipping on the 27th or 29th, how thrilling. Pushed back a month now, this is getting kinda annoying. Though I remember Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind was pushed back 3 months for the XBOX, i think...oh well, it's just a waiting game now.

[Dahne]

Good! There are way too many games I want to get coming out around now as it is.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Hey look on the bright side, atleast it wasn't like 6 months or something.

[SoulBlazer]

And this is a surprise HOW, exactly? :P

This IS Working Designs we're talking about here, people -- and a company on it's last legs. ;)

[BigGeorgeJohnson]

Damn... that sucks I have that pre-ordered. Where did you get the info?

[Promophile]

I wish they would push it back 6 months. Too many games coming out now, not enough time for them as is.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Damn... that sucks I have that pre-ordered. Where did you get the info?

I have had it on hold myself now for about 8 months. Though like soulblazer said it's just your typical working designs.

[FantasiaWHT]

Yeah but at least with WD it's worth the wait :)

I just wish that WD themselves would get a clue about how long it really takes to translate/localize a game like that.

Similarly, Gran Turismo 4 has now been pushed back to "indefinite" status, which isn't a good sign...

[PapaStu]

Well this push back is only about 2 weeks, so its no biggie. When WD opened themselves up for Pre-orders directly from them, they were telling us 6 weeks, which placed it directly between Halo2 and Metroid Prime2. The problem is that WD has pushed this back like almost a whole year so far.... thats more of what irks me than anything else.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Who doesn't remember what happened with Arc the Lad Collection? delayed 11 months I think from it's release

Working Designs delaying something again? I am not surprised

[DTJAAAAMJSLM]

Good, I was worried about being low on cash this month...

[lendelin]

Similarly, Gran Turismo 4 has now been pushed back to "indefinite" status, which isn't a good sign...

Are you sure? GEEZ, sometimes I think I'll nver play this game. :)

Even a developer like Polyphony with a huge franchise like GT has to be careful not to test our patience. I'm certainly not impatient, but slowly the history of delayed release dates for GT4 is getting comical.

Growlanser generations? I pre-ordered it, but so far the delays are acceptable.

[The Manimal]

I wish they would push it back 6 months. Too many games coming out now, not enough time for them as is.


agreed.

[Melf]

Why am I not surprised? It seems that most companies release half a dozen new titles in the time it takes Working Behind to localize a single title.

News flash for Vic: There are companies doing WD's thing better than WD. Atlus, for one, has you pwned.

[maxlords]

Big shock there. Expect it to be pushed back again when we get closer to that date. I'm personally not expecting it till Q1 05 at the earliest. I'll be shocked if it's out before then.

[Joelius]

I don't really mind that it got pushed back, cuz i'm personally low on video game funds right now....oh, to answer the question on how I found out....I check out the ebgames website and look when the game ships. They always keep that the MOST up to date.
Speaking of great games coming out at once, off to play Halo 2....

[racecar]

Hey look on the bright side, atleast it wasn't like 6 months or something. it was if you look at the original release date(mid june) a i pre- order it(delux) in april at ebgames .

[Azazel]

If they keep at it it might be delayed longer than Magic Knight Rayearth.

[FantasiaWHT]

News flash for Vic: There are companies doing WD's thing better than WD. Atlus, for one, has you pwned.

Well put. I love Atlus :)

[Achika]

I thought it was kinda funny that I ordered Growlancer in the beginning of October straight from WD and the lady said it would ship in 8-10 weeks, instead of the 4 weeks from that time that all the gaming sites said. LOL

[Castelak]

I don't mind it being delayed, but I wonder why they keep saying these it will be out at certain dates and it never happens. Don't make false release dates! I'm sure it will be worth it... hopefully... (Ideal situation is that Sony finally said "Fine you can include Growlanser 1 in the compilation" and they're scrambling to put it in XD)

Side note: Baten Kaitos is out the 16th! YAY

[zmweasel]

I don't mind it being delayed, but I wonder why they keep saying these it will be out at certain dates and it never happens. Don't make false release dates! I'm sure it will be worth it... hopefully... (Ideal situation is that Sony finally said "Fine you can include Growlanser 1 in the compilation" and they're scrambling to put it in XD)

Side note: Baten Kaitos is out the 16th! YAY

I don't know if Victor has ever publicly stated why he never gives realistic release dates, but my perception is that he's hopelessly optimistic. Also, I think he feels it's better to maintain retail and consumer awareness, and even build up anticipation, by announcing an insane release date and pushing it back over and over again. It seems to work, too; there's always a lot of onlne chatter about WD, but no one ever says "I'm so sick of these delays that I'm not going to support WD anymore."

-- Z.

[Melf]

I don't think people come out and say it but the feeling is there. How many games has WD released in the last 2 years? Heck, they've only released 2 on the PS2 since 2001!

Companies like Atlus have moved in on their turf while WD has slept on the job and now they're barely able to make one release a year.

I doubt they'll be around for the next generation.

[BigGeorgeJohnson]

I don't think people come out and say it but the feeling is there. How many games has WD released in the last 2 years? Heck, they've only released 2 on the PS2 since 2001!

Companies like Atlus have moved in on their turf while WD has slept on the job and now they're barely able to make one release a year.

I doubt they'll be around for the next generation.

I don't really think you can compare the two, Atlus is a much larger company with a much larger work force and alot more money to license more games and bring them over to the states.

It's true that Working Designs is notorious for delays, but I think the final product is worth the wait. I personally don't think the Atlus translation or localization teams even come close to WD work, but that just my opinion. I enjoy both companies efforts and hope to enjoy them for along time to come.

[zmweasel]

I don't think people come out and say it but the feeling is there. How many games has WD released in the last 2 years? Heck, they've only released 2 on the PS2 since 2001!

Companies like Atlus have moved in on their turf while WD has slept on the job and now they're barely able to make one release a year.

I doubt they'll be around for the next generation.

I don't really think you can compare the two, Atlus is a much larger company with a much larger work force and alot more money to license more games and bring them over to the states.

It's true that Working Designs is notorious for delays, but I think the final product is worth the wait. I personally don't think the Atlus translation or localization teams even come close to WD work, but that just my opinion. I enjoy both companies efforts and hope to enjoy them for along time to come.

Atlus's Japanese division is fairly beefy, but its U.S. division isn't really "a much larger company" than Working Designs, and they don't necessarily have "a lot more money." Admittedly, Working Designs has always been Victor's one-man band, but Atlus USA is pretty tiny by comparison to virtually any other American game publisher. Atlus does, however, have better relationships with Japanese developers, including Nippon Ichi and Sony Japan. That's why Atlus was able to steal Hoshigami out from under WD (which I consider the beginning of Victor's end).

-- Z.

[Ed Oscuro]

"I'm so sick of these delays that I'm not going to support WD anymore."
For whatever it's worth, I never really started in the first place. Not really anti-WD myself, but I'm certainly not going to be at their victory parade.

[Daria]

I don't think it's such a big deal myself. When the game comes out, it'll come out and I'll buy it. Of course I can see how it would upset people who've preordered the damn thing but I don't see how anyone else is all that inconvienced by a delay.

Anyway when's it suppose to come out now? I noticed someone mentioned a day but not a month.

[Promophile]

All these people complaining must have never pre-ordered a Woring Designs game. Believe me, this is VERY common from them. My advice just sit back and chill until they release.

[thegreatescape]

I wonder what would happen if Victor Ireland and John Romero teamed up and started a company...

*shudder*

[Melf]

All these people complaining must have never pre-ordered a Woring Designs game. Believe me, this is VERY common from them. My advice just sit back and chill until they release.

Matbe that's the reason they're complaining? Preordering a game only to have it come out almost a year later is something people get tired of, especially when it happens with EVERY RELEASE.

I would rather they skip all the useless junk they toss in with their games and just get them out on time. Jeez, they're localizing it in more time than most companies develop and ship a game from the ground up.

"But WD is a small company with few people, blah, blah." If they can't meet the demands of the industry, then maybe it's time to close shop. Like I said, WD's importance in gaming isn't what it used to be, as more and more companies are bringing out games normally left in Japan. The industry has passed them by and they're losing ground quick.

[SoulBlazer]

Most American companies can translate and get a Japanese game ready for release in the United States in about a nine month period these days.

WD has always taken twice as long.

Go figure. :hmm:

[Promophile]

All these people complaining must have never pre-ordered a Woring Designs game. Believe me, this is VERY common from them. My advice just sit back and chill until they release.

Matbe that's the reason they're complaining? Preordering a game only to have it come out almost a year later is something people get tired of, especially when it happens with EVERY RELEASE.

I would rather they skip all the useless junk they toss in with their games and just get them out on time. Jeez, they're localizing it in more time than most companies develop and ship a game from the ground up.

"But WD is a small company with few people, blah, blah." If they can't meet the demands of the industry, then maybe it's time to close shop. Like I said, WD's importance in gaming isn't what it used to be, as more and more companies are bringing out games normally left in Japan. The industry has passed them by and they're losing ground quick.

From all the signs WD IS on its death bed. Most people are saying Growlanzer will be their last release. First, from a business standpoint, this isn't good. Like every other market in the world, the gaming market is now beginning to be dominated by big companies, and the little guys either have to close shop or be bought by them. Look at EA for example. They've swallowed up a BUNCH of small companies. Same with Vivendi and others. Some don't see this as that big a deal, but you have to remeber the more competition the better things are for the consumer. Now from a personal standpoint, I can't say that I personally would be happy if they stopped packing all the extras, or closed shop. They have brought so many great games to the states that woulda never made it otherwise, and their success in the Saturn / PSX era showed other companies that you can be a sucessful business translating little known JP games. Dragon Force is to this day one of my favorite games of all time, and if they hadn't released it no one would've. Altus seems to have stolen their thunder these days, especially since the massive sucess of Disgaea. In a fantasy world I would love to see some sort of Altus/WD merger, that would keep the extra pack-ins and sense of humor/style from WD and the games and release time of Altus :D .

[Achika]

I *think* it may have finally shipped since it seems WD has charged my CC

this seems like good news, folks.

[VACRMH]

I *think* it may have finally shipped since it seems WD has charged my CC

this seems like good news, folks.
:D

Can't wait!

When did they charge it?

[Achika]

I *think* it may have finally shipped since it seems WD has charged my CC

this seems like good news, folks.
:D

Can't wait!

When did they charge it?

Friday I think...

[dreams]

My credit card was also charged!

According to my online statement, my card was charged on Wednesday, November 24.

[digitalpress]

I didn't order through WD direct, I pre-ordered through EB. Got this in my inbox today:

Thanks for pre-ordering from EBgames.com! As an added benefit to ordering from
us, we'll keep you informed of ship date changes. We are writing to let you
know that the publisher has set a new ship date for Growlanser: Generations
Deluxe Pack of 12/7/2004. As always, EBgames.com will not charge your credit
card until we ship your order.

[lendelin]

I didn't order through WD direct, I pre-ordered through EB. Got this in my inbox today:

Thanks for pre-ordering from EBgames.com! As an added benefit to ordering from
us, we'll keep you informed of ship date changes. We are writing to let you
know that the publisher has set a new ship date for Growlanser: Generations
Deluxe Pack of 12/7/2004. As always, EBgames.com will not charge your credit
card until we ship your order.

Thanks for the heads up. Good to know that it finally ships on Dec. 7th (well, we all hope :) I ordered my deluxe pack through WD directly.

[Daria]

For what it's worth Magic Box recently reported that WD was planning on translating an XboX rpg.

Might be rumour though, and I have trouble navigating that site so I don't have a link.

[dreams]

For what it's worth Magic Box recently reported that WD was planning on translating an XboX rpg.

Might be rumour though, and I have trouble navigating that site so I don't have a link.

http://www.the-magicbox.com/game20041113.shtml

Towards the bottom.


UNCONFIRMED: Working Designs is planning to translate and publish a Japanese Xbox RPG sometimes in US next year.

[VACRMH]

Vic mentions it in this interview as well...

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/565/565988p1.html

[Daria]

Thanks for the links guys. (:

Anyway I hope the XboX thing pans out, I think WD would do much better with selling XboX RPGs since there's really a need for them at the moment. The PS2 is just so saturated with RPG releases that it's easy for them to become overlooked.

That and it irks me that an American console would still have unreleased Japanese made games. >.>

[Promophile]

IGN: Have you ever considered re-releasing or re-packaging some of your older classics on new systems for players who never had the chance to play then the first time? Dragon Force, Albert Odyssey, and Shining Wisdom come to mind.


Vic: We're always busy with all the new stuff coming down to get involved in updates to older titles, but when there's action on the Japanese side, were very excited, especially when the titles are amongst out favorites. I'm personally flipped out about the upcoming [PS2] re-release of Dragon Force. That's literally one of my favorite games of all-time, so I'm really interested in doing it here. Nothing's happened yet regarding a US release, but we're trying to get that to happen. It will be cool to let a larger user base finally see it!

OH GOD! The chance for Dragon Force to get the respect it diserves! OMG! I love WD :) .

[Six Switch]

Hmmm,think they still have any of the limited editions for pre-order?I might call up and pre-order a copy tomorrow,even if it did get delayed.

[Promophile]

Hmmm,think they still have any of the limited editions for pre-order?I might call up and pre-order a copy tomorrow,even if it did get delayed.

I called today and ordered it. They said I will get the pins and cards.

[DynastyLawyer]

Most American companies can translate and get a Japanese game ready for release in the United States in about a nine month period these days.

WD has always taken twice as long.

Go figure.

Most American translations are laughable. Working Designs does them right. Your point being?



Matbe that's the reason they're complaining? Preordering a game only to have it come out almost a year later is something people get tired of, especially when it happens with EVERY RELEASE.

I would rather they skip all the useless junk they toss in with their games and just get them out on time. Jeez, they're localizing it in more time than most companies develop and ship a game from the ground up.

"But WD is a small company with few people, blah, blah." If they can't meet the demands of the industry, then maybe it's time to close shop. Like I said, WD's importance in gaming isn't what it used to be, as more and more companies are bringing out games normally left in Japan. The industry has passed them by and they're losing ground quick.

Chill. I was as disappointed as the next guy when Lunar was pushed back in monthly intervals no less than 5 times. But they have put out quality stuff with hella consistency. What you call "useless junk," I call the best packaging of a videogame you are likely to find.

But but but? Nobody in their right mind would say "but" in regards to Working Designs. It's obvious to anyone they're a slacker's company. They're not trying to be Square-Enix. They've lived as a niche company since they were putting out Cosmic Fantasy 2 for Turbo Duo. They clown a lot, take their time, and put out a quality product in the end more often than not. Who cares?


Companies like Atlus have moved in on their turf while WD has slept on the job and now they're barely able to make one release a year.

I doubt they'll be around for the next generation.

I really don't get the Atlus/WD connection. Quirky sense of humor in the games? Maybe. But I really doubt Working Designs is assuming battle stations because Disgaea is selling well. "OMG! SOMEONE ELSE RELEASED A GAME THAT TRIED TO BE FUNNY! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!" They survived making games for the Saturn and the Turbo Duo. Releasing 1/2 games for the PS2 per year has to be comprable to that in terms of production and eventual sales. I'd likewise have a tough time saying Disgaea came close to being the game Lunar was. They may indeed go under tomorrow, but I'm having a tough time believing all this "End is nigh for WD" talk.

[zmweasel]

Most American translations are laughable. Working Designs does them right. Your point being?

Most text localizations of Japanese games were laughable in the early '90s, when Victor started out, and so his translations were wonderful simply by virtue of being in genuine English. These days, rotten text localizations are rare, and usually from third-string publishers. (Not always, of course: Okage and Ephemeral Fantasia were both awful.)

Yes, Victor does translations "right," although he's always been better at comedy than drama; GameSpy's recent review of Growlanser rags on the overabundance of cheeseball dialogue. But many other publishers are doing translations almost as or equally well, and much faster.

-- Z.

[Azazel]

I thought Hudson Soft's Turbo Grafx 16 CD stuff was much better than what WD did at the time in the early 90s.

I'll agree that WD is much better at doing comedy than drama. If they just did localizations versus transaltions they do a pretty good job at that. I still say Atlus and some of those other companies do translations just as well and better a lot of the times than what WD does. They also released there stuff much faster than WD ever could. I've personally never given one cent to WD but I could do without all the extra crap they throw in and just release there stuff faster. There packaging isn't really that much better than what other companies do. Also some of the stuff they've chosen to release since the PSX days has been questionable. I'm more talking about what stuff they chose to localize not neessarily the quality of there work.

[Daria]

I'll agree that WD is much better at doing comedy than drama. If they just did localizations versus transaltions they do a pretty good job at that.
I still say Atlus and some of those other companies do translations just as well and better a lot of the times than what WD does.

O.o If you're going to be nit picky about what constitutes translation vs. localization then ATLUS is in the same boat. As for doing the games "better" I couldn't agree less, I think both companies are comparible. WD tends to be funnier and ATLUS has a better grip on the serious stuff. But then I've seen serious WD scripts (Alundra) and funny ATLUS scripts (rhapsody) that were great. No harm in that, I love the products produced by both companies.


They also released there stuff much faster than WD ever could.
You know, 10 years from now who's really gone give two shits about who met their deadlines and who cranked out games faster? The only thing that's going to remain is the finished product. And when I play a game, I'm focused on the experience of playing it, not sitting there grumbling to myself "Geez this kicks ass but why couldn't I have played it a month ago". I mean maybe it's just because I spend so much time playing new "old" games that I just don't understand the hype behind having a game brand new the day it comes out right this moment. So consequantly push-backs mean very little to me. Not like I was going to play it that day anyway.


There packaging isn't really that much better than what other companies do.
Really? My boxsets for Lunar and Arc the Lad say otherwise not to mention the hard manual and holographic artwork on the Alundra box. I mean come on, when you glance at my PSX collection the WD stuff stands out, and it looks damn nice.


Also some of the stuff they've chosen to release since the PSX days has been questionable. I'm more talking about what stuff they chose to localize not neessarily the quality of there work.

Growlanser and Goemon? Isn't that all they've announced since Arc the Lad or am I missing something here? I honestly can't think of any other games they've annouced, a shooter maybe?

[Crush Crawfish]

Ign has posted a rather nice reveiw of Growlanser:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/569/569077p1.html

I hope I can pick this one up soon.

Oh and on a side note, how come WD's localization of Advance Goemon for PS2 got cancelled? God knows I want to play it in english reeeeeeeal bad.

[SoulBlazer]

Probaly because Sony shot it down, not wanting 2D games based anymore.

[Daria]

Probaly because Sony shot it down, not wanting 2D games based anymore.

That's the official reason, but with games like Nippon Ichi's Disgaea, La Pucelle, Phantom Brave and the up comming Sega Shining Tears being released without much hassle I'm inclined to believe that someone at Sony just likes to make life hell for Vic. :P

[zmweasel]

Oh and on a side note, how come WD's localization of Advance Goemon for PS2 got cancelled? God knows I want to play it in english reeeeeeeal bad.

'Cause Goemon was a painfully primitive PS2 game. This December 2000 preview at IGN (back when it had one great writer, David Smith) says it all: http://ps2.ign.com/articles/135/135401p1.html

Victor would've had to rewrite the game's 3D engine to get it through SCEA's concept approval, but he couldn't handle that considerable task in-house, and couldn't convince Konami Japan to do it for him. He's still hinting that it might happen, but it won't.

-- Z.

[lendelin]

Nice, mouthwatering, and critical review by IGN. Now I'm really looking forward to the games, and I calmed down a bit to have spent 90 bucks for the deluxe set. (I hope I'll get my game, when I ordered it from WD weeks ago the guy on the phone seemed a bit disorganized.)

I'm rooting for smaller developers like WD which satisfy market niches. We need developers like that for the sake of a great variety of game offerings. Unfortunately, with the dramatic increase of development costs for games, big Blockbuster titles with appealing and mouthwatering CGi sequences, and a very harsh competition in an expanding market, I'm afraid smaller developers like WD are the ones which really face very difficult times in the future.

[FurinkanianFrood]

Personally I avoid anything published by Working Designs. Their translations are better than some but are still rather crude if you ask me. Of course I am probably not the right person to ask because I just play the Japanese versions (even if I do need to whip out the big ol' Kanji dictionary sometimes). Not to mention that I despise PS2 anyway (don't feel like ranting about it right this moment).

I do absolutely love Urushihara's character designs though, but I would rather see them in Langrisser games (1,2,4, and 5 are fantastic) which are much better than Growlanser. Also, I can't remember, but is this Growlanser collection one of those overpriced things bundled with junk (Japanese games have much better junk, though they are even more pricey). Not to mention that the first game is left out of the collection.

I also don't believe that they have a real excuse for the amount of time it takes them to bring stuff out. They don't spend time writing meticulously faithful translations, nor do they get high priced, high demand voice actors.
I have found myself shuddering at the dubs of some of their other games.
Real seiyuu make a huge difference.

Still, I don't think they are bad games. Just a bad price on a bad system, that's all.

[Berserker]

I wonder what would happen if Victor Ireland[, George Broussard,] and John Romero teamed up and started a company...

*shudder*

Daikaneverlanser!

[lendelin]

Well, the DELUXE PACK ARRIVED TODAY! (thank goodness I was at home when FedEx knocked at the door)

...so the Dec. 7th release was kept. I have to say, it is really nice. Everything promised is there, from the watch in a gift case, to the deck of playing cards, and the little ring on a chain in a pouch (you get a glimpse of the heavy burden Bilbo Baggins must have felt), and the soundtrack CD...of course the two discs in a regular PS2 case came with it, too. :)

Since I pre-ordered it from WD directly, an extra deck of cards and two pins were included (doesn't fit in the box, they are packjaged separately)

I am a sucker for these extras and well done packaging. I opened the box carefully like a time ticking bomb to leave no scratch, and I leave everything sealed (except for the game case, of course, which is, btw, sealed like a regular PS2 game)

It is nice to have the two Lunars, Arc, and now Growlanser. We need small developers like WD for the sake of variety of game offerings!

[kainemaxwell]

I wa slooking at growlancer at work today (we have both editions). Quite temped to get it, though I'm not much on strat-rpgs.

[SoulBlazer]

I'm sure the game is good, it's just I ALWAYS buy WD games with the extras and I just can't bring myself to pay $90 for it. O_O

I have NEVER paid that much for a single game before.

[poe]

I'm sure the game is good, it's just I ALWAYS buy WD games with the extras and I just can't bring myself to pay $90 for it. O_O

I have NEVER paid that much for a single game before.

Just rationalize it like I am, saying it's actually 2 games, averaging $45 each, which is a bit more reasonable.

[kainemaxwell]

Or rationalize it that you're supporting the company that brought you the Lunar titles.

[zmweasel]

I'm sure the game is good, it's just I ALWAYS buy WD games with the extras and I just can't bring myself to pay $90 for it. O_O

I have NEVER paid that much for a single game before.

Just rationalize it like I am, saying it's actually 2 games, averaging $45 each, which is a bit more reasonable.

Indeed. You're actually saving ten bucks, as the original plan was to ship each game at $50.

-- Z.

[SoulBlazer]

Well, support does'nt matter at this point -- Working Designs is dead, all the signs point to it.

And it may be two games, but I still kinda see it as one. Maybe I'll try to get it later if I can save a little money on it.

[digitalpress]

I got mine today too. Very impressive! I can honestly say that I've never seen so much high quality SWAG with a pair of high quality games before. Ever before. At $90 it seems like a pretty good deal to me.

All I need now is abou 150 hours so I can play through them both. :eek 2:

[Promophile]

Well, support does'nt matter at this point -- Working Designs is dead, all the signs point to it.


We don't know that for sure, Vic has gotten out of tight binds before. But, yea, it doesn't look too bright for WD.