11/04: Which games push the current systems to their limit?

[digitalpress]

The recent release Killzone seems to push PS2 as far as it can go - maybe even more so. So did San Andreas. HALO 2 and Burnout 3 seem to flaunt the Xbox's incredible processing power...

So between PS2, Xbox, GameCube and GBA, which games do you feel really show us as much as the system currently* has to offer?

* I say "currently" because history has shown that even stressed systems find another level as developers learn the tricks. Hence, this is the 11/04 view.

[PapaStu]

I agree with the Killzone and pushing the PS2 to the limits. I think the GTA series and Rockstar are just one of those smarter publisher/developers, learning how to put more and more in there as the systems archecture becomes more familiar to the coders.

What Bungie has done with Halo 2 (as are some of the other developers) is to take a step back. Instead of making everything bigger, they are reducing the Polygon counts (like with the new Unreal stuff that debuted at E3 this last year) and programming smarter. SO these smaller and more detailed skins are actually making the games look better, smaller and run faster.

Ive yet to really see anything push the GameCube, but im sure Metroid Prime 2 is making it work.

One thing that I still feel that is under utelized across platforms is the in game loading. Look at GTA and Halo, the entire level isnt loaded, only sections, so your taxing the system less by not loading it all into the RAM of the system, allowing for more in game stuff to happen.

[SoulBlazer]

By all reports, GTA 4 is going to push the PS2 about to the max of what the system can do.

Killzone, GTA SA, Halo 2, and Burnout 3 have allready been mentioned.

I've heard that new GC RPG -- the one with the funny name -- also pushes the system farther then anything that has been released on it.

Anyone think the GBA has been pushed yet?

[Castelak]

By all reports, GTA 4 is going to push the PS2 about to the max of what the system can do.

Killzone, GTA SA, Halo 2, and Burnout 3 have allready been mentioned.

I've heard that new GC RPG -- the one with the funny name -- also pushes the system farther then anything that has been released on it.

Anyone think the GBA has been pushed yet?

Baten Kaitos... I will be starting it tomorrow, I had to pre-order it for the nifty wallscroll muahaha... The packaging doesn't say Progressive Scan compatible though, if its such a great game graphically why would they not provide the uber graphic mode. ; ;

[Dahne]

Snake Eater's gotta be up there.

[PS2Hawk]

Rockstar .. AMM no GTA never pushed PS2 yet, look at GT3, VC and then look at San Andreas.

MGS3 definitely puts the PS2 at its max and the end result is aweome!

Naughty Dog is the only Team that actually Understand the PS2 hardware the best, Next to Hideo Kojima's Team. Just look at Jak 2 and Jak 3

[Ed Oscuro]

Is pushing a system to its "limits" a good thing? Killzone may be taxing the PS2's processor, but I'm not sure this is entirely a good thing. Framerate suffers. Sounds like the programming wasn't extremely well done, either - there's no excuse for having draw-in occur two inches from your face.

I was writing about Tenchu: Stealth Assassins a bit tonight, and that's the big difference between it and Metal Gear Solid - MGS didn't have bigger areas loaded into memory at once; it broke them up. That wouldn't have worked for Tenchu's style of gameplay, but it gets you wondering.

A vote for another game that pushes its system: Otogi 2, XBox.

[it290]

I'd have to say the Silent Hill games definitely bring out a lot of the PS2's power.

As for the Gamecube, I know people will disagree with this, but I think F-Zero GX is the best looking game on the system. I think it's possible that MP2 and the upcoming RE4 push the hardware more, though.

The Xbox... well, let's just see how that DOOM 3 port turns out. ;)

[petewhitley]

I know people will disagree with this, but I think F-Zero GX is the best looking game on the system.

I agree. That's one of the most technically impressive games of any current system. But with GT4 coming up, if that's not the pushing-it king, we've all been punk'd.

[Cauterize]

I'd have to say the Silent Hill games definitely bring out a lot of the PS2's power.

Likewise for the xbox Silent Hill 4: The Room

the detail on the main character is unbelievable!

[Nez]

Panzer Dragoon Orta, pry pushes the Xbox a lot.

And for the game Cube I'm shure Residnet Evil with all of its background movies and incredible detail gives the system something to do with all of its power. Shame its not progressive enabled.

[sniperCCJVQ]

I think it could be fun to do the list for every console.

[Cauterize]

I think it could be fun to do the list for every console.

agreed!

[jdc]

I'd say that Killzone pushes the PS2 BEYOND what it is capable of.....so in the end we don't get the best Killzone game that we could have.

Halo 2....if anyone can tell me why the XboX has trouble handling this game....why all of the nasties? This game has me baffled. It doesn't look to push the system any more than the original Halo did....and that game was smooth.

Cube? I've honestly never even seen that little system break a sweat over anything it runs. I'm sure that Sunshine made it work harder than many titles.

[kai123]

The only trouble Halo 2 has on the xbox is the cutscenes. If you can't see the differences between Halo and Halo 2 you need your eyes checked. @_@ I think MGS: Twin Snakes pushes the Cube to its limits. It is the only game on the Cube I have seen with slowdown.

[dethink]

definitely MGS3 on the PS2.

kojima and co. know exactly where to push the hardware or push the designers to come up with smart tricks to work around the hardware limitations.

GT4 definitely needs some power behind it, but i think the metal gear games push things further.

haven't played any of the jak games, but 3 looks really good.

[slip81]

For PS2 I would say San Andreas, I mean it's insane that the whole game is loaded from the outset, with no pausing when you go from city to city. MGS3 also looks like it pushes the graphical limits and juding by the screenshots it seems that GT4 will push the black box as well.

I can't give an opinion for GCN and Xbox because I haven't played enough new release games yet.

[Richter]

The only trouble Halo 2 has on the xbox is the cutscenes. If you can't see the differences between Halo and Halo 2 you need your eyes checked. @_@ I think MGS: Twin Snakes pushes the Cube to its limits. It is the only game on the Cube I have seen with slowdown.Ikaruga, during the explosion when the boss blows up. Could be in the original DC release though

-
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory?

[it290]

The slowdowns in Ikaruga are definitely intentional. And yes, the DC rev does the same thing. I don't know if that big explosion could be done without slowdown, but either way, it adds to the dramatic effect.

MGS:TTS, on the other hand, well yes it has slowdowns, but I don't think it's a very well optimized game. I'm not saying that SK did a bad job with it, but I think the cube could have handled everything without slowing down if the engine was more efficient.

edit - some picks for 'pushing the hardware the most' on other systems:

Dreamcast: F355 Challenge, Ikaruga, Test Drive Le Mans
Saturn: Virtua Fighter 2, Dead or Alive
Genesis: Alien Soldier, Ranger X, Red Zone
Amiga 500: Lionheart
Neo Geo: Metal Slug 3

[NoahsMyBro]

Well, from what I've seen so far, I'm gonna have to go with Quest for the Golden Chalice, on the 5200.

[fishsandwich]

Talk about a game pushing hardware way beyond its limits...

Star Wars: Flight of the Falcon

I read about this game and got a guy at a videogame store near my parent's house to let me try a used copy on a GBA... this 3-D shooter trys to play like one of the N64 Star Wars games, but the GBA just can't push the polygons that the game is trying to throw at it. It's choppy as hell and plays REALLY slow.

http://pocketmedia.ign.com/pocket/image/flightofthefalcon_082803_010.jpg
http://pocketmedia.ign.com/pocket/image/flightofthefalcon_082803_007.jpg

I remember right before the GBA was released that several gaming magazines speculated that the GBA would be close to the PSone in terms of power, but it's more like a SNES with a a really fast FX chip built in.

I don't have a GBA, so I don't know what game pushes the hardware without taking it over the edge.

Cheers :D

[KJN]

I don't like the phrase "pushes the system to it's limits" because it's never true, as time passes there will allways be a new trick to get better performance out of the system. So no games pushes the system to it's limits, Killzone for example would probably have run better if the programmers had gotten more time to polish it but you have to release the game as well.

Look at the demo scene for various home computers for example. They are still coming up with new ways to make things people thought was impossible just a few years ago (at which time people were doing things considered impossible just a few years before that, etc).

[Gemini-Phoenix]

The graphics of Steel Battalion I think really push the Xbox to it's limit. It is truly an amazing game.

Gran Turismo 4 I think will push the PS2 somewhere near.

I am yet to come accross a GameCube game which I think is worthy of that title though - I believe Nintendo tend to only use half of what the console is actually capable of. They tend to take a lot of shortcuts too - Ie, making games like Paper Mario 2 and Wind Waker with cell shaded graphics...

Resident Evil 4 will probably be one of the games which comes close to the limits of the console.

And i'm convinced the GBA still has a little more in it... Minish Cap looks amazing, yet I can't understand why they can't apply the same to games like Pokemon... It's a 32bit console, yet they are hell bent on only making 16bit games for it.

[Predatorxs]

The only trouble Halo 2 has on the xbox is the cutscenes. If you can't see the differences between Halo and Halo 2 you need your eyes checked. @_@ I think MGS: Twin Snakes pushes the Cube to its limits. It is the only game on the Cube I have seen with slowdown.

Well Need for speed : Hot pursuit has it's slow down moments, not sure if it's the way it was ported? but i can't think it's down to the GC's lack of power since there are many other titles that push the GC harder..

i was just thinkin (about Need for speed : HP) compared to other racers on the 3 major platforms, it's a very basic title when i first got it i played it to death but after playing BurnOut 3..... i'll probably never play NFS:HP again! :roll:

http://www.xs.dsl.pipex.com/avator/ms_ufo.gif..XS

[Predatorxs]

I don't like the phrase "pushes the system to it's limits" because it's never true, as time passes there will allways be a new trick to get better performance out of the system. So no games pushes the system to it's limits, Killzone for example would probably have run better if the programmers had gotten more time to polish it but you have to release the game as well.

Look at the demo scene for various home computers for example. They are still coming up with new ways to make things people thought was impossible just a few years ago (at which time people were doing things considered impossible just a few years before that, etc).

I think your spot on with that KJN, Games like Halo 2 and BurnOut 3 will be average lookin games (graphics wise) in the next 2 years or so, by which time all 3 "new" systems should on the market.

( Off Topic alittle )
i was always surprised how better the graphics and games where on the snes as it got close to it's final days! the snes was pushed more and more! till the end!

Dammit i wish the Snes had held on for another year or so, imagine the great games we missed out on, Chrono Trigger 2, Secret of Mana 2 and 3, etc etc

http://www.xs.dsl.pipex.com/avator/ms_ufo.gif..XS

[goatdan]

I don't agree with picking games that slow a system down as what the system's limits are. I don't necessarily think that because the PS2 has slowdown while playing Killzone means that it is necessarily pushing the power of the PS2 the best. It just means that the programming isn't as clean as it probably could be, or the game was over-designed.

And I'm not ripping on Killzone, but just stating more of a general thing that I feel about games. My Jaguar suffers tons of slowdown while playing Zool 2, but I don't think that's because Zool 2 is pushing the limits of the Jaguar -- no, it just isn't programmed quite right.

At the same time, a game doesn't necessarily have to be that great to be truly "pushing" the system. It just needs to be visually stunning and have very smooth gameplay.

I really don't have any picks for the current generation of what really pushes them to their (current) maxes, but here are some older ones:

Dreamcast - Headhunter, Ikaruga, Crazy Taxi 1 & 2
Playstation - Metal Gear Solid
Jaguar - Iron Solider 2, Ultra Vortek, Defender 2000
SNES - Donkey Kong Country series, Killer Instict
Geni - Final Sonic releases
NES - Super Mario Brothers 3