PSP NOT REVOLUTIONARY

[RCM]

What are your thoughts on these two revolutionary new handhelds? Fanboys square off as Sony goes head-to-head with Nintendo. Everyone's got their own opinion on these systems' present and future... so come on in and share yours!


I take issue with calling PSP a "revolutionary" handheld. It seems like more of the same to me. I don't know if i would even call the DS "revolutionary" but at least it's not more of the same. Well, at least not completely. I'm getting both. I just don't think labeling the PSP as "revolutionary" is correct. The DS is debatable.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[petewhitley]

What are your thoughts on these two revolutionary new handhelds? Fanboys square off as Sony goes head-to-head with Nintendo. Everyone's got their own opinion on these systems' present and future... so come on in and share yours!


I take issue with calling PSP a "revolutionary" handheld. It seems like more of the same to me. I don't know if i would even call the DS "revolutionary" but at least it's not more of the same. Well, at least not completely. I'm getting both. I just don't think labeling the PSP as "revolutionary" is correct. The DS is debatable.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

A handheld running software that is equivalent to what's on the home consoles of this generation seems revolutionary to me.

[TheRedEye]

You misspelled "revolutionary."

[ArnoldRimmer83]

It would be nice for the PSP bashers to take a vacation from dissing the handheld, until its actually out.

[Avatard]

You misspelled "revolutionary."


so?

[RCM]

You misspelled "revolutionary."

That I did!

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[MarioAllStar2600]

It would be nice for the PSP bashers to take a vacation from dissing the handheld, until its actually out.

I am pretty sure he didn't bash it, and actually stated he was going to buy one when they come out.

I agree. As impressive this system is graphiclly, its the same as any handheld. We expect graphics to get better, and if they didn't get better it wouldn't sell. It follows an expected pattern in video games. Now the DS sticks out with its touch screen. It changes how we game, and the possibilitys for gaming. Now something like that is revolutionary.

[RCM]

A handheld running software that is equivalent to what's on the home consoles of this generation seems revolutionary to me.

Not too impressive to me. Turbo Express and Nomad were as powerful as consoles of their generation. I don't call that revolutionary. Also, the PSP is NOT as powerful as the PS2.


It would be nice for the PSP bashers to take a vacation from dissing the handheld, until its actually out.

That would be nice. Don't confuse me with a PSP basher. I was bashing the description of this forum more than anything else.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[RCM]

There. The "revolutionary" is fixed. Carry on.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Ernster]

Look I know the PSP will suck, however I cant understand these Nintendo fanboys when they pay out the PSP for not being revolutaionary.

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

[ArnoldRimmer83]

I admit I skimmed the post fairly quickly. My bad.

[RCM]

I cant understand these Nintendo fanboys when they pay out the PSP for not being revolutaionary.

What do you mean by "pay out that PSP for not being revolutionary?"


I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

I thought the GBA screen size is fine personally. Are you really suggesting that the GBA is incapable of pumping out good graphics? Have you played Astro Boy for the GBA? It's stunning. The DS screens aren't too bad either, same with the graphics. The PSP is far beyond the DS when it comes to 3D though.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Ernster]

"Pay out" means to tease or say something bad about someone or something. I guess in easier terms it means to bash/flame

[RCM]

"Pay out" means to tease or say something bad about someone or something. I guess in easier terms it means to bash/flame

Well, in those terms I agree with you. If that was directed towards me than you got it wrong man! Im not a fanboy by any measure. I'm not bashing the PSP for being revolutionary or not. I was bashing the label that Digital Press gave it as being a revolutionary handheld. The PSP is a combination, and in some cases improvement, on things that have already been done on other handhelds. I would hardly call that revolutionary. Not a bash in my case anyway, just the way I see it. Carry On.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Ernster]

Hey dont worry I wasnt really reffering to you, just a lot of talk on Nintendo forums were Ninty fanboys say PSP will suck coz it doensnt do anything new. I think that is pretty stupid as none of the Gameboys have ever done anything "new".

God LOL I cant belive im defending the PSP @_@

However I think it will suck not because it doenst do anything new compared to the DS, but because its made by Sony. Sony = poor games and hardware

[RCM]

Sony = poor games and hardware

The PS2 is a crappy piece of hardware, but the PS was elegant for its time. It will be interesting to see what the PSP and PS3 will be closer to, The PS or the PS2.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[CAR25]

It would be nice for the PSP bashers to take a vacation from dissing the handheld, until its actually out.

I am pretty sure he didn't bash it, and actually stated he was going to buy one when they come out.

I agree. As impressive this system is graphiclly, its the same as any handheld. We expect graphics to get better, and if they didn't get better it wouldn't sell. It follows an expected pattern in video games. Now the DS sticks out with its touch screen. It changes how we game, and the possibilitys for gaming. Now something like that is revolutionary.

Was the virtual boy "revolutionary" too ?

[Pedro Lambrini]

I'd have to agree with the general consensus here. The PSP doesn't even try to do anything new - except use discs in a handheld (good call Sony!). I will probably get one a year or so after it's release because by then it's bound to have some interesting games but as to revolutionary, nah, can't see it...

[GobopopRevisited]

What are your thoughts on these two revolutionary new handhelds? Fanboys square off as Sony goes head-to-head with Nintendo. Everyone's got their own opinion on these systems' present and future... so come on in and share yours!


I take issue with calling PSP a "revolutionary" handheld. It seems like more of the same to me. I don't know if i would even call the DS "revolutionary" but at least it's not more of the same. Well, at least not completely. I'm getting both. I just don't think labeling the PSP as "revolutionary" is correct. The DS is debatable.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

A handheld running software that is equivalent to what's on the home consoles of this generation seems revolutionary to me.

Game Boy, sure it was Black and White (Greenishy... :puke: ) But it pretty much had NES quality graphics. Lets see, I believe NES was still king in 89.

Game Gear, sure it was... ummm EXACTLY THE SAME AS MASTER SYSTEM. Lets see, well MS wasn't on top but I personally feel MS had some better graphics than NES (Wonderboy and Phantasy Star Series especially)

Nomad... Well it WAS a portable Genesis, but it was still a handheld. Lets see, according to many sources Genesis won the 16 bit wars (based on sales at least) and Nomad was a damn fine example of taking modern, 16 bit gaming on the go.

Turbo Express... mmhmm. Lets see, not on top in the US by any means but TG16 was still competition elsewhere in the world and had Great graphics when Express was released.

[Drexel923]

By no means is the PSP going to suck...I've already seen a bunch of games I'm interested in, but he does have a point.

PSP = Play games the same way your used to, just on the go.

DS = A new way to play games + the more of the same.

Feel the Magic alone is a reason why the DS is more revolutionary than the PSP. Though I wouldn't use the term revolutionary...maybe just different. (In a good way :D )

[NintendoMan]

Look I know the PSP will suck, however I cant understand these Nintendo fanboys when they pay out the PSP for not being revolutaionary.

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

You need to learn the definition of the word "revolutionary".

The PSP is very cool looking and has great graphics, but it's NOT REVOLUTIONARY. Graphics and a bigger screen don't make a system revolutionary.

[petewhitley]

You need to learn the definition of the word "revolutionary".

The PSP is very cool looking and has great graphics, but it's NOT REVOLUTIONARY. Graphics and a bigger screen don't make a system revolutionary.

Nor does an underutilized second screen with tacked on functionality.

[CAR25]

Look I know the PSP will suck, however I cant understand these Nintendo fanboys when they pay out the PSP for not being revolutaionary.

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

You need to learn the definition of the word "revolutionary".

The PSP is very cool looking and has great graphics, but it's NOT REVOLUTIONARY. Graphics and a bigger screen don't make a system revolutionary.

I think you are correct... the PSP is not as "revolutionary" as the DS... but the PSP is more impressive in both game line up, and tech stuff.

[kai123]

So far the DS isn't that revolutionary to me. Maybe when it has more than 5 games I'll give a fart about it. The PSP will be revolutionary because it will be the first handheld to knock Nintendo on its ass. :P

[jonjandran]

Mine is bigger than yours.

No mine is better than yours... x_x

I thought we were all gamers here ?

It doesn't matter who makes it, all that matters ARE THE GAMES !!!!

If it has 1 fun game, then it's mine.... :evil:

[Ed Oscuro]

Using disc-based media in a handheld isn't revolutionary? Good grief...nobody calls portable CD-i or laptop machines "handhelds;" this is a whole new era of gaming really. 1 gigabit cartridges are a big deal, but you won't be getting much CD-quality movie, backgrounds, music, or lots of things off of them.

I'm wondering how the DS sounds (some sort of modern MIDI?), of course.

So it's basically "does the internet more or less, has a touchscreen (done already with the Game.com), and has two screens" versus "Portable PlayStation +" which really isn't that small a deal. You can't fit PS2 games onto its media, but you can certainly put an original PlayStation game onto this machine with no problems.

[RCM]

Using disc-based media in a handheld isn't revolutionary?

I don't think so. More like evolutionary to me.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[Mad Chemist]

So it's basically "does the internet more or less, has a touchscreen (done already with the Game.com), and has two screens" versus "Portable PlayStation +" which really isn't that small a deal. You can't fit PS2 games onto its media, but you can certainly put an original PlayStation game onto this machine with no problems.

Dual screens ... done by Nintendo's own Game and Watch handhelds ages ago. :)

[Ed Oscuro]

Good point, mad chemist :)

For what RCM said...so the combination of touchscreen and limited wireless capabilities would be evolutionary, then. The dual screen setup, while novel, may be offset somewhat by the lack of the "evolutionary" disc format. Clearly the DS has that attention-grabbing factor, but does a dual screen setup make sense for most types of games? In real life, most revolutions fail...I don't think the DS will, but I doubt the DS will radically alter the face of gaming as we know it. I actually think popularizing (hopefully?) touchscreen setups with young people will be its biggest achievement.

[goatdan]

I've made this argument before in these forms on different topics, and it is the biggest reason why I'm so curious about these systems:

Through history, successful consoles tend to be something that presents something new. The NES had side scrolling. The Geni had speed. The SNES had exceptional graphics and Mode 7. The Playstation and N64 went 3D. The current crop of consoles made 3D look really good.

The consoles that have failed have tended to be less revolutionary -- the 5200 played more of the same types of games. Same with the Colecovision and Intellivision. The Jaguar and 3DO didn't make 3D look good enough for the most part. The 32X had few (no?) games that couldn't be done on the Genesis. Etc.

Then, you have a few oddities that I would classify as "quackery." These consoles fail to catch on because they are too "out there" for normal people and game creators. Some examples are the Game.Com, Action Max and Virtual Boy.

With this round, we have two consoles that blur all the lines:

The DS has two screens, a touch screen and can display some sweet 3D. 3D on a portable could be considered revolutionary. As for the other parts of the DS, it hovers somewhere between revolutionary and quackery. Don't get me wrong - it has potential, but I don't think that many companies can take great advantage of it. At the same time, the touch screen has been done before on PDAs and the Game.Com, and it has mixed results.

Without including any PDA functionality, I think that Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot -- a dual screened PDA would be REALLY great. You could have a calender with all the dates and then a list of what appointments you have on one screen. Or your "to dos" for the day. It wouldn't have to be much, but it would've been a huge evolutionary step for PDAs... and then making a PDA where the main function would be cartridge gaming would be revolutionary.

Nintendo skipped that stuff and went for a design that could swing into either revolutionary or quackery very easily. It is teetering in the middle there.

The PSP on the other hand I think lies between the evolutionary and the revolutionary. It uses disc media in a portable, but so does my CD player that I bought in the early 90's. It features a larger screen. It features some extra buttons. All of that is purely evolutionary stuff.

The revolutionary stuff that the PSP has is the fact that it can play portable 3D games. The only other syste that can do this is the DS. Since they both were released so near to each other, it isn't enough to ensure the success of the system.

I feel that the PSP teeters between the evolutionary step and the revolutionary step.

Like no other chapter in gaming history, the success and failure of these consoles is going to depend on the software. If the DS gets enough software that makes decent use out of the two screens and the touch screen, it will be a revolutionary system. If not, it will be looked at like a Virtual Boy -- a system that developers didn't know how to harness the power of.

The PSP could be a revolutionary console, but if it is used with little different than the games that we are currently getting on home consoles, it will be looked at as evolutionary. If we get exclusives that are better portable than on the big screen... revolutionary.

I think that the success and failure of the two systems will also be greatly bound to one another. If the DS becomes the "revolutionary" system first, it will do better sales numbers worldwide. If the DS is still quackery at the time that the PSP is released, the PSP could easily sneak into that position.

Hope I didn't offend anyone in this post -- I'm not taking sides in any way. I just think it's interesting that it is so hard to determine what the future is for these consoles right now. Then again, it is always hard until you're looking back at them.

[Ed Oscuro]

Bah, saying the Coleco and Inty weren't MAJOR graphical improvements over the VCS isn't right. They definitely were improvement; it's just that they were being made by smaller companies and were pushed out of business by the Atari war chest (didn't some suffer lawsuits over the "play VCS carts on your Game X System!" as well? That hurts your cash flow), advertising-wise.

[Push Upstairs]

For this round...

Revolutionary = A system that doesn't make the core of its game library ports of games people have already played.

I don't give a rats ass if its disc based or has six screens and a cup holder...a Crash Bandicoot: Redux or an old Mario game+"some extra crap we just made up so you will think its worth buying this game again" = Not gonna cut it.

[goatdan]

Bah, saying the Coleco and Inty weren't MAJOR graphical improvements over the VCS isn't right. They definitely were improvement; it's just that they were being made by smaller companies and were pushed out of business by the Atari war chest (didn't some suffer lawsuits over the "play VCS carts on your Game X System!" as well? That hurts your cash flow), advertising-wise.

I never said that the Coleco and Inty weren't major graphical improvements, but they didn't play any games in new ways. The Colecovision version of Defender is a perfect example -- it looks nicer when sitting still, but as soon as you start scrolling the game falls apart. The Coleco wasn't made for scrolling games. Neither was the Intellivision.

How many NES games did side scrolling or vertical scrolling? That gave companies that ability to make new styles of games, and it gave gamers a better reason to upgrade.

Unless I'm a hardcore gamer, I'm not going to upgrade one system for another system that *only* offers greatly enhanced graphics. I want a system that offers enhanced gameplay. The reason the current crop was able to excel beyond the last crop of systems is because there are more things that you can do with better 3D - a game as detailed as GTA or Halo wouldn't be possible to do in the same way with the power of the PSOne.

I really do feel that is where the difference comes in. Mattel was a pretty darn big company. Coleco had the Cabbage Patch kids going on at the same time and was making boatloads of money too. Hell, even the Atari Jaguar, Turbografx and CDi were made by companies with tons of money when they were launched, but all failed to gain huge market shares do to the fact they just didn't do much differently.

What will be different in this era? Who knows.

[Ed Oscuro]

Good point...the consensus (among those of us who still care, heh) seems to be that games will decide whether the systems are seen as revolutionary. Which is a good thing.

[RCM]

the consensus (among those of us who still care, heh) seems to be that games will decide whether the systems are seen as revolutionary.

I agree with that in large part. I do think you need the proper hardware to pump out those revolutionary games though. AntiGrav wouldn't have gotten any attention if it was meant to be used with a controller.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[goatdan]

I agree with that in large part. I do think you need the proper hardware to pump out those revolutionary games though. AntiGrav wouldn't have gotten any attention if it was meant to be used with a controller.

You're right -- but it's hard to see what is revolutionary at the time of launch. The Jaguar sure looked like the next locical step when it was released -- greatly enhanced 2D, 3D that included ready-to-use gourad shading and could throw around a lot of polys and so on. I remember reading in a magazine that the Jaguar was going to totally revolutionize the gaming industry, as it would truly blur the line between movies and games. And for a little while, it looked like it was on the right path. It sold out extremely fast in it's test markets when it was released, and Atari really felt good about it.

Then the PSX was released, and suddenly it was all about texture mapping. The SNES and Geni had proven able to accomplish limited 3D polys (Star Fox, Stunt Racer FX and Virtua Racer), but no one had seen texture mapped polys. This allowed for a lot of new stuff. And suddenly the Jaguar was just part of an evolution, not a revolution.

I worry that the two screens on the DS aren't going to be part of a revolution in game playing, but more of an evolution because people don't know what to do with them to take advantage of them. I can't think of many games that will take great advantage of them both. I think that Madden 2005 could be one of the best ones, although I haven't seen it yet. So far, it seems that people have been complaining that the second screen isn't there for anything beyond maps and stats. Personally, I think that's cool -- but it is FAR from revolutionary.

I can't say too much on the PSP until it is released, but if it *only* allows me to do 3D gaming on the go, I know that I won't be impressed. I don't do much portable gaming, and when I do I don't want to play the same things that I play at home -- games that are long and require a great time committment. I want a short fix. From the previews that I have seen of the PSP games, many of them look to be lengthy games that would work just as well on an PS2. If that's the case, I feel the PSP will also not be revolutionary, but evolutionary.

[RCM]

The Jaguar sure looked like the next locical step when it was released

The Jag was not revolutionary. As you put it, it was the next logical (illogical maybe) step at the time. The Jaguar isn't the best example either. The Jaguar was sloppy all around. The 3DO was out at the same time as the Jag and it could do 3D and 2D too. I love my Jag by the way! Furthermore, I am and always have been skeptical by what a magazine proclaims. Game Informers Editor In Chief Andy (can't think of his last name) actually thought the N Gage had a good chance of battling it out with the GBA. We all know how that is shaping up.


Then the PSX was released, and suddenly it was all about texture mapping. The SNES and Geni had proven able to accomplish limited 3D polys (Star Fox, Stunt Racer FX and Virtua Racer), but no one had seen texture mapped polys. This allowed for a lot of new stuff. And suddenly the Jaguar was just part of an evolution, not a revolution.

The Model 2 board from Sega/Lockheed Martin was out before the PS. Just one example of people being able to check out textured mapped polygons. The PS made everyone in the home market take a turn in a new direction for sure. The introduction of the PS and Saturn didn't turn the Jag from a revolution to an evolution, they just made the Jag die.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[goatdan]

The Jag was not revolutionary. As you put it, it was the next logical (illogical maybe) step at the time.

Yup -- and time has proven, at least to me that "logical steps" usually do not mean success. The ability to do something beyond what has been in the market does. So far, neither the DS or PSP has proven anything...


The Model 2 board from Sega/Lockheed Martin was out before the PS. Just one example of people being able to check out textured mapped polygons. The PS made everyone in the home market take a turn in a new direction for sure. The introduction of the PS and Saturn didn't turn the Jag from a revolution to an evolution, they just made the Jag die.

The Model 2 board wasn't intended for the home market. The Virtua series, Star Fox and so on made it look like shaded polys would be all the rage. What I'm saying is that looking back is the only time you can truly figure out if something is revolutionary or evolutionary. When Cybermorph was released for the Jaguar, it was hailed as a completely revolutionary game -- the first go anywhere 3D flying game. It looked like it would be revolutionary like Super Mario Brothers or Sonic were.

Obviously, it wasn't. Games like Ridge Racer were a lot more impressive to people.

Other things that the Jaguar did that could have been revolutionary were the 18-button controller and the aborted Jaguar Voice Modem and Jag VR set ups. At the time of release, I would've thought the Jaugar would have been revolutionary. Now, I can plainly see it isn't.

[briguy578]

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

I'm not so sure about that. I think the major problem with the PSP is going to be its abysmal battery life. Nintendo has always been able to deliver there, and from what I'm hearing right now the battery life of the DS is 4 [four!] times longer then the expected life out the PSP.

Sony has a slightly better chance do to thier massive size [but, of course, Sega was #1 when the Game Gear came out], and it helps that Nintendo didn't manage to get the launch price under $100 bucks like they have in the past.

This leads me to believe that the PSP will probably be second in success only to the Game Boy family, beating out the Game Gear for the fabled #2 spot in handheld gaming history. However, between Nintendo's name recognition, the battery life, the handheld gaming momentium and the epic back library of GBA games, I can't see the PSP breaking the 30% market share barrier.

[goatdan]

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

I'm not so sure about that. I think the major problem with the PSP is going to be its abysmal battery life. Nintendo has always been able to deliver there, and from what I'm hearing right now the battery life of the DS is 4 [four!] times longer then the expected life out the PSP.

Sony has a slightly better chance do to thier massive size [but, of course, Sega was #1 when the Game Gear came out], and it helps that Nintendo didn't manage to get the launch price under $100 bucks like they have in the past.

Interestingly enough, the Lynx had a bigger screen and was much more powerful than the Game Boy when it was released. It was also a color backlit system. We all knew how that turned out.

Ironically, the Lynx's battery life was around what a PSP will be. I don't know if that is what killed the Lynx (or if it was the absymal support, no big name games and lack of Tetris) but it may have been a factor. Then again, the Lynx batteries weren't rechargables...

[RCM]

At the time of release, I would've thought the Jaugar would have been revolutionary. Now, I can plainly see it isn't.

I guess you're really into the Jaguar! I agree that the best judge of a revolutionary system or game or whatever is time and how it affected everything around it. From a gameplay standpoint, I don't see how the PSP will be revolutionary at all. By the way, after this thread is dead I don't think I am ever going to say or type "revolutionary" ever again. Ha ha ha.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[goatdan]

I guess you're really into the Jaguar!

Not to sway this off topic but...

Yeah :embarrassed:

I was the host of Jagfest 2K1, have a Jaguar collection that is complete including every known label variation (and I made the list!) and have a fair share of proto and unreleased stuff for it...

:) I like it. Just not revolutionary.

[CAR25]

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

I'm not so sure about that. I think the major problem with the PSP is going to be its abysmal battery life. Nintendo has always been able to deliver there, and from what I'm hearing right now the battery life of the DS is 4 [four!] times longer then the expected life out the PSP.

Sony has a slightly better chance do to thier massive size [but, of course, Sega was #1 when the Game Gear came out], and it helps that Nintendo didn't manage to get the launch price under $100 bucks like they have in the past.

Interestingly enough, the Lynx had a bigger screen and was much more powerful than the Game Boy when it was released. It was also a color backlit system. We all knew how that turned out.

Ironically, the Lynx's battery life was around what a PSP will be. I don't know if that is what killed the Lynx (or if it was the absymal support, no big name games and lack of Tetris) but it may have been a factor. Then again, the Lynx batteries weren't rechargables...

In the past, when they talked about batter life... the only reason it would be crappy for me is due to the increase spending on batteries... but since todays systems have rechargable batteries, that's not the case anymore.

[CAR25]

I mean Sony has elimiated the 2 main problems with handhelds over the years, the small screen and poor graphics, however a lot of people stil arent happy.

I'm not so sure about that. I think the major problem with the PSP is going to be its abysmal battery life. Nintendo has always been able to deliver there, and from what I'm hearing right now the battery life of the DS is 4 [four!] times longer then the expected life out the PSP.

Sony has a slightly better chance do to thier massive size [but, of course, Sega was #1 when the Game Gear came out], and it helps that Nintendo didn't manage to get the launch price under $100 bucks like they have in the past.

This leads me to believe that the PSP will probably be second in success only to the Game Boy family, beating out the Game Gear for the fabled #2 spot in handheld gaming history. However, between Nintendo's name recognition, the battery life, the handheld gaming momentium and the epic back library of GBA games, I can't see the PSP breaking the 30% market share barrier.

Correction... the DS does not have 4x the batter life... more like 2 times Max... still alot more though... but 6hrs of batter life is not all that bad IMO, esp if you can switch batteries on the fly while the machine is on.

[squirrelnut]

Correction... the DS does not have 4x the batter life... more like 2 times Max... still alot more though... but 6hrs of batter life is not all that bad IMO, esp if you can switch batteries on the fly while the machine is on.


if your talking about the PSP the recent press release said it only get about 2 hours max.

[goatdan]

if your talking about the PSP the recent press release said it only get about 2 hours max.

The PSP gets two hours with games that work the processor a lot. Sony has basically said that it is up to the developers to be reponsible enough to make games that don't eat through battery life, which in my opinion is a BAD thing to try to tell developers -- make games less powerful so it doesn't eat battery life?

The ace in the hole that Sony might have is the whole rechargable thing though. We've never had a short-life system that was able to be charged right out of the box. That fact may or may not affect the sales of the system. We'll have to wait and find out.

[Pedro Lambrini]

I agree. The biggest difference between this portable war and the others is definitely the rechargable battery issue. Battery life isn't necessarily the big point it used to be - as long as you can play for the duration of your journey you can always just charge it again later.

[zmweasel]

Correction... the DS does not have 4x the batter life... more like 2 times Max... still alot more though... but 6hrs of batter life is not all that bad IMO, esp if you can switch batteries on the fly while the machine is on.


if your talking about the PSP the recent press release said it only get about 2 hours max.

To which "recent press release" are you referring?

-- Z.

[zmweasel]

This leads me to believe that the PSP will probably be second in success only to the Game Boy family, beating out the Game Gear for the fabled #2 spot in handheld gaming history. However, between Nintendo's name recognition, the battery life, the handheld gaming momentium and the epic back library of GBA games, I can't see the PSP breaking the 30% market share barrier.

30% market share compared to the DS's 70%, or the DS's and GBA's combined 70%?

-- Z.

[CAR25]

Correction... the DS does not have 4x the batter life... more like 2 times Max... still alot more though... but 6hrs of batter life is not all that bad IMO, esp if you can switch batteries on the fly while the machine is on.


if your talking about the PSP the recent press release said it only get about 2 hours max.

Another corrections... you mean 2 hrs Min... and about 8hrs max, depending on what functions you are using. Movies from the UMD takes the most power (~2hrs min), games can be as low as 4hrs to 6hrs avg... and puzzle games like bobble bobble can pull through with ~8hrs (or using the memory sticks to watch video etc uses 8 or so hrs or more) if you dim the brightness and lower the volume, you can save battery life.

http://www.psinext.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3777

part2... LCD and battery life
http://www.techjapan.com/modules.ph...article&sid=611


part1... Hardware specs
http://www.techjapan.com/modules.ph...article&sid=605


Part3

UMD game boot-up time of same order as PS2
- PC management of MemoryStick saved data possible
- Network connections? - no problem

http://www.techjapan.com/modules.ph...article&sid=612

[goatdan]

Another corrections... you mean 2 hrs Min... and about 8hrs max, depending on what functions you are using. Movies from the UMD takes the most power (~2hrs min), games can be as low as 4hrs to 6hrs avg... and puzzle games like bobble bobble can pull through with ~8hrs (or using the memory sticks to watch video etc uses 8 or so hrs or more) if you dim the brightness and lower the volume, you can save battery life.

I've seen the two hour quote about movies, and I don't get it at all... (If you're wondering where that quote is, it is here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=4667 -- Note: it is before Sony released the battery specs, so it may have been improved. Then again, Sony stated that the battery specs were using certain screen levels and no audio, so it could be 2 hours with that included. Who wants to play a movie with no audio?!)

Even so, it still doesn't make any sense to me -- the movies will not be constantly moving the laser or crunching huge math operations with the processor. Now that we're down to 2 hours with movies, I really wonder what we'll get with some games. Games "have the ability" to take up the most power: And as I said, Sony has put all of that in the developers laps.

Here it Kutargi speaking about the battery life thing: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5251

Here is how Sony plans to ensure that games get a long enough battery life: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=4667

And the FAQ that you keep referring to is obviously biased. One example:

In FAQ:
Critics
What are journalists saying about the PSP?
...
"The system is certainly much cooler than our cell phones get when we play even simple 2D games. Amazingly, the system is very quiet -- there doesn't seem to be anything moving around to cool it off inside."

In context at IGN from the link:

"We were, of course, expecting the system to heat up a bit as it's played, and, in fact, the level of heat isn't too bad. The system is certainly much cooler than our cell phones get when we play even simple 2D games."

The editor was talking about the _HEAT_ level of the system, not how "cool" it was. They later went on to say that they were interested in the system more than ever. The guy that made it should've used that quote, not the out of context quote he used.

It isn't that far off with most of its facts, but it does seem skewed to me. Nothing negative is mentioned at all. For the battery life thing, he states, "Basically, if you use all features (highest volume on speakers, highest brightness setting, WIFI and a badly coded (in terms of saving battery power) high graphics game then you will end up with 3 hours. If you play a puzzle game on low brightness, no audio and no WIFI then you will get 8 hours." which the article that he links to has NO mention of those numbers, and I don't think it is fair to assume that.

Considering Kutargi's comments in the article above, I don't think that you'll get 3 hours of gameplay with a "badly coded" game with everything on. And also considering Kutargi's comments, I would expect over eight hours for a simple puzzle game with nothing on.

[CAR25]

Another corrections... you mean 2 hrs Min... and about 8hrs max, depending on what functions you are using. Movies from the UMD takes the most power (~2hrs min), games can be as low as 4hrs to 6hrs avg... and puzzle games like bobble bobble can pull through with ~8hrs (or using the memory sticks to watch video etc uses 8 or so hrs or more) if you dim the brightness and lower the volume, you can save battery life.

I've seen the two hour quote about movies, and I don't get it at all... (If you're wondering where that quote is, it is here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=4667 -- Note: it is before Sony released the battery specs, so it may have been improved. Then again, Sony stated that the battery specs were using certain screen levels and no audio, so it could be 2 hours with that included. Who wants to play a movie with no audio?!)

Even so, it still doesn't make any sense to me -- the movies will not be constantly moving the laser or crunching huge math operations with the processor. Now that we're down to 2 hours with movies, I really wonder what we'll get with some games. Games "have the ability" to take up the most power: And as I said, Sony has put all of that in the developers laps.

Here it Kutargi speaking about the battery life thing: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5251

Here is how Sony plans to ensure that games get a long enough battery life: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=4667

And the FAQ that you keep referring to is obviously biased. One example:

In FAQ:
Critics
What are journalists saying about the PSP?
...
"The system is certainly much cooler than our cell phones get when we play even simple 2D games. Amazingly, the system is very quiet -- there doesn't seem to be anything moving around to cool it off inside."

In context at IGN from the link:

"We were, of course, expecting the system to heat up a bit as it's played, and, in fact, the level of heat isn't too bad. The system is certainly much cooler than our cell phones get when we play even simple 2D games."

The editor was talking about the _HEAT_ level of the system, not how "cool" it was. They later went on to say that they were interested in the system more than ever. The guy that made it should've used that quote, not the out of context quote he used.

It isn't that far off with most of its facts, but it does seem skewed to me. Nothing negative is mentioned at all. For the battery life thing, he states, "Basically, if you use all features (highest volume on speakers, highest brightness setting, WIFI and a badly coded (in terms of saving battery power) high graphics game then you will end up with 3 hours. If you play a puzzle game on low brightness, no audio and no WIFI then you will get 8 hours." which the article that he links to has NO mention of those numbers, and I don't think it is fair to assume that.

Considering Kutargi's comments in the article above, I don't think that you'll get 3 hours of gameplay with a "badly coded" game with everything on. And also considering Kutargi's comments, I would expect over eight hours for a simple puzzle game with nothing on.

Putting everything off to the side... we will know the real deal when it hits Japan 12/12 and every were else (US, Korea, UK) in Martch 05.

[goatdan]

Putting everything off to the side... we will know the real deal when it hits Japan 12/12 and every were else (US, Korea, UK) in Martch 05.

Agreed. :)

I wonder what coverage of the Japanese launch will come stateside. I also really wonder how the initial launch will go off there considering the stranglehold Nintendo has always had on the handheld market. It could be huge since it has the Playstation name, or it could not be.

Does anyone know about how Sony is advertising for it in Japan? All that I've heard is the charity auction that Zach linked to before, and I know there has to be more.

[Ed Oscuro]

Even so, it still doesn't make any sense to me -- the movies will not be constantly moving the laser or crunching huge math operations with the processor. Now that we're down to 2 hours with movies, I really wonder what we'll get with some games.
Why wouldn't the movies constantly be using the disc? You can't simply hold the movie data in RAM...you absolutely must do some sort of streaming action (unless you want to pay for real PSP cartridges). Movies by their very nature require massive amounts of data to be moved from your permanent storage medium into a simplified playback mechanism; games use a very small amount of data in comparison.

My wonder is why anybody would want to play movies on the thing at only 2 hours without being plugged in - many movies are over 2 hours and even a 1.5hr movie is going to be playable only once.

[goatdan]

Why wouldn't the movies constantly be using the disc? You can't simply hold the movie data in RAM...you absolutely must do some sort of streaming action (unless you want to pay for real PSP cartridges). Movies by their very nature require massive amounts of data to be moved from your permanent storage medium into a simplified playback mechanism; games use a very small amount of data in comparison.

Yes, but it would be smart for them to make it stream directly off it without accessing various parts of the disk and speeding up / slowing down the motors. My Sony Viao (sp?) CD player in my car can handle somewhere between 60-80 hours on two AA batteries. Considering that my CD player is accessing disks and streaming music off them (and of course, outputting sound) I don't understand why the PSP couldn't get at least 1/10th of that time.

I freely admit that I don't know how much accessing different parts of a DVD player does while playing, but the only times that I know is when you are choosing a selection on a menu. At least, that's the only times I've heard my old DVD player, Xbox and two computers make noises to do it.


My wonder is why anybody would want to play movies on the thing at only 2 hours without being plugged in - many movies are over 2 hours and even a 1.5hr movie is going to be playable only once.

On top of that, why would you purchase a movie that you can only watch on your PSP? I don't know -- maybe I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't purchase a movie if I couldn't see it on my TV. Now that I've got surround sound, there is another big reason too. Sony needs to lay off pushing their movies because it simply doesn't make any sense. Not just does it seem you'll need to be plugged into a wall, but you won't be able to see anything except on the PSP.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, but it would be smart for them to make it stream directly off it without accessing various parts of the disk and speeding up / slowing down the motors. My Sony Viao (sp?) CD player in my car can handle somewhere between 60-80 hours on two AA batteries. Considering that my CD player is accessing disks and streaming music off them (and of course, outputting sound) I don't understand why the PSP couldn't get at least 1/10th of that time.
Okay, I knew you had to have a reason for writing that, wasn't quite sure what it was though :P

Apparently the power requirements for running the new blue laser are not only higher, but substantially higher than for a CD player. I will say that you can see the 60-80 hour figure can't be directly related because that CD player doesn't have a screen nor need to execute any of the other functions of a PSP, including running any reasonably sophisticated decoding hardware, but I appreciate seeing that because it DOES demonstrate that CD-ROM technology is relatively mature and power requirements are much lower. As a new, inherently more demanding technology, the requirements are necessarily high.


On top of that, why would you purchase a movie that you can only watch on your PSP? I don't know -- maybe I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't purchase a movie if I couldn't see it on my TV. Now that I've got surround sound, there is another big reason too. Sony needs to lay off pushing their movies because it simply doesn't make any sense. Not just does it seem you'll need to be plugged into a wall, but you won't be able to see anything except on the PSP.
On the plus side, the trend towards more demanding portable devices might increase demand for readily available power sources in public, especially in transportation (I'm not TOTALLY facetious about this!)

I will say that as an individual I still see certain places and settings as being "movie watching places," and while out and about I tend to not be interested. The only time I've really wished for a portable was on vacation, and my Nomad fit the bill (when I was near a power outlet anyhow).

[goatdan]

Okay, I knew you had to have a reason for writing that, wasn't quite sure what it was though :P

Apparently the power requirements for running the new blue laser are not only higher, but substantially higher than for a CD player. I will say that you can see the 60-80 hour figure can't be directly related because that CD player doesn't have a screen nor need to execute any of the other functions of a PSP, including running any reasonably sophisticated decoding hardware, but I appreciate seeing that because it DOES demonstrate that CD-ROM technology is relatively mature and power requirements are much lower. As a new, inherently more demanding technology, the requirements are necessarily high.

If that's the case, I question Sony's use of the format. Why wouldn't they go with something that was more proven -- even straight DVDs would've worked better, I assume.

Another thing that factored into this thought by me, I have a Dell Inspiron 9100 (AKA "the power hog") Laptop. I don't need to have a decent battery life, because I use it as a portable desktop -- taking it to various rooms at campus and plugging it in to do work on computers nearby. As an expirement, I have used it for other things in the past. With my standard battery, I get 2:15 starting out. If I play a DVD in the laptop, that become 1:45ish. If I play Doom 3, I'm lucky to get an hour out of it.

It didn't make sense to me that the PSP would consume so much more power watching movies. Now, hearing about this new laser I can see the reason, even though I don't agree with it.


On the plus side, the trend towards more demanding portable devices might increase demand for readily available power sources in public, especially in transportation (I'm not TOTALLY facetious about this!)

I will say that as an individual I still see certain places and settings as being "movie watching places," and while out and about I tend to not be interested. The only time I've really wished for a portable was on vacation, and my Nomad fit the bill (when I was near a power outlet anyhow).

I definitely don't think that this would work out. The biggest problem is who would pay for these services. In the computer world, it's the reason why you can get a laptop with better technology in it that has batteries that last over 10 hours instead of 2.5 like mine. I wouldn't doubt that Sony will be releasing a PSP revision that doubled or tripled the battery life in a year or two.

[RCM]

It would be nice if blank media would be available for the PSP. It would be more acceptable if I could just burn a movie from my collection and watch it instead of buying it twice.

I'm not so sure that the max 6-8 hours will be acceptable for the PSP. If Grand Theft Auto comes out for the PSP, as Ive heard rumors it will, that will not be enough for me. I'm not a big fan of the series but even I have spent hours playing Vice City and GTA 3 at a time. a couple hours will be fine for me with a fighting or racing game, but not a big open ended title like GTA. Anybody share the same concern with me?

By the way, what is the average battery life for the DS? I have a late generation Ipod and the claim is that it can last for 12 hours. I really only get 5-6. Powering 2 backlit screens must use a lot of battery.

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[goatdan]

It would be nice if blank media would be available for the PSP. It would be more acceptable if I could just burn a movie from my collection and watch it instead of buying it twice.

There seems to be conflicting information on this. Sony has said that they will sell some sort of conversion software so that you can turn legally owned videos into UMDs, but it has also stated that UMD media is not something that can or will be burnable.

It would be nice if blank media could be made, but I don't think that most average people would pay the money for the blank media and burner just to convert their movies into a portable version. If I have already seen it on DVD, I don't think I want to cut it down to take it on the road with me. How many movies do you really watch a million times, and of those you do, would it really be worth seeing it again on a tiny screen?

Just a thought...

[Ed Oscuro]

If that's the case, I question Sony's use of the format. Why wouldn't they go with something that was more proven -- even straight DVDs would've worked better, I assume.
That's assuming a lot, and DVDs take up too much space and probably wouldn't perform much better. Even a cut-down DVD isn't worthwhile.


I have a Dell Inspiron 9100 (AKA "the power hog") Laptop...With my standard battery, I get 2:15 starting out. If I play a DVD in the laptop, that become 1:45ish. If I play Doom 3, I'm lucky to get an hour out of it.
DOOM III was created with desktops in mind; desktop video cards are notorious for the amount of heat they put out - and there's cards out there that require extra power sources! Graphics card designers appreciate the laptop gaming crowd, but it's not their sole market - they'll just throw tweaked versions of their cards onto it; they know people are used to lower energy performance and they certainly cannot afford to take great speed hits. On a handheld console, however, speed is definitely secondary to power efficiency.


I definitely don't think that this would work out. The biggest problem is who would pay for these services.
Who pays for WiFi hotspots? Not many folks, I know! Yet aren't they becoming popular? Give it some time and we'll see. I'd like to see pies in the sky, but I know nothing will be happening overnight. Perhaps wearable solar power generators or static electricity generators? :D

[goatdan]

If that's the case, I question Sony's use of the format. Why wouldn't they go with something that was more proven -- even straight DVDs would've worked better, I assume.
That's assuming a lot, and DVDs take up too much space and probably wouldn't perform much better. Even a cut-down DVD isn't worthwhile.

Well, I didn't necessarily mean the size of a DVD, but perhaps a format not unlike the GameCube...


DOOM III was created with desktops in mind; desktop video cards are notorious for the amount of heat they put out - and there's cards out there that require extra power sources! Graphics card designers appreciate the laptop gaming crowd, but it's not their sole market - they'll just throw tweaked versions of their cards onto it; they know people are used to lower energy performance and they certainly cannot afford to take great speed hits. On a handheld console, however, speed is definitely secondary to power efficiency.

I used this to illustrate a point though -- my laptop (which is not intended as a sit-on-the-grass-doing-work machine) lasts about twice as long playing a DVD as it does playing a graphically intense game -- one that isn't accessing the CD drive at all. I know that Doom III was made with beefy systems in mind, but then I question why my system which is rather beefy loses power on it so much faster than DVDs. It doesn't make sense to me that watching a UMD would take up the same amount of power if not more than a game...


Who pays for WiFi hotspots? Not many folks, I know! Yet aren't they becoming popular? Give it some time and we'll see. I'd like to see pies in the sky, but I know nothing will be happening overnight. Perhaps wearable solar power generators or static electricity generators? :D

That's true... although it seems at least in Milwaukee that most free access WiFi spots are placed so to supplement another business or for similar purposes. The campus I work at (UW-Milwaukee) is in the process of launching one for student and staff access. I was at a bar that had it so that we could eat and browse the 'net. On the other hand, Verizon is supposed to be installing other stuff, but it will be a pay-for-the-access deal. I suppose that you could see power sources coming more into play at bars, cafes and the like, but I think before that happens we'll see the lifetime of batteries get better so it is unnecessary.

[CAR25]

Putting everything off to the side... we will know the real deal when it hits Japan 12/12 and every were else (US, Korea, UK) in Martch 05.

Agreed. :)

I wonder what coverage of the Japanese launch will come stateside. I also really wonder how the initial launch will go off there considering the stranglehold Nintendo has always had on the handheld market. It could be huge since it has the Playstation name, or it could not be.

Does anyone know about how Sony is advertising for it in Japan? All that I've heard is the charity auction that Zach linked to before, and I know there has to be more.
Sony has been investing a lot in advertising to specific audiences... older gamers, commuters, and those who probably never owned a handheld.

They have a huge model of the PSP in one Tokyo train station... very impressive... they are using manikins in malls etc to model the PSP... so they are really making serious effort in putting out the product.

It's no surprise that the demand greatly outweighs how many units Sony is initially sending at launch day.

[CAR25]

It would be nice if blank media would be available for the PSP. It would be more acceptable if I could just burn a movie from my collection and watch it instead of buying it twice.

There seems to be conflicting information on this. Sony has said that they will sell some sort of conversion software so that you can turn legally owned videos into UMDs, but it has also stated that UMD media is not something that can or will be burnable.

It would be nice if blank media could be made, but I don't think that most average people would pay the money for the blank media and burner just to convert their movies into a portable version. If I have already seen it on DVD, I don't think I want to cut it down to take it on the road with me. How many movies do you really watch a million times, and of those you do, would it really be worth seeing it again on a tiny screen?



Just a thought...


You can invest $ for a large memory stick and convert DVD files into MPEG... compression etc would be needed.... but you don't need the UMD to watch video... however I would think downloading MPEG video from certain episodes of South park from the computer, then streaming it to the memory stick through the PSP is not a bad idea IMO.



Also, playing music of video from the UMD drive requires the disks to be active 100% of the time during it's use... playing games only activates the disk drive when information is needed for loading... games that require less loading times use the lest battery power.

This clearly explains why playing MP3s or Video etc from the memory stick uses the lest of any operations… and it’s said you could possibly even get close to ~10yrs.

The Nintendo DS does not involve moving parts since it reads from a small cartridge, and it’s screen is not nearly as bright or sharp as the PSP… those it’s battery life is significantly higher at ~10hrs and more (from people who reported using it.)