a quick DREAMCAST retrospective

[sabre2922]

Sega announced that 2001 would be the final year of Dreamcast support,causing legions of fans to howl sorrowfully at the moon.
One of the most promising game machines was euthanized prematurely,leaving behind a sea of potential.
IN ITS SHORT 2 YEAR HISTORY, THE DREAMCAST FEATURED INNOVATION AND INGENUITY.
It was the first (and only) console with dedicated online support.the memory card (VMU) came equipped with its own LCD screen. Sega had a slew of in=house developers pumping out amazing games like nobodys business.
THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS, NO ONE WAS BUYING.
After a highly successful launch,sales numbers dwindled to a near standstill.
third-party software developers and publishers didnt want to put big games on dreamcast until it sold better but that wouldnt happen until more big games showed up.
It was a double-edged sword. Even those titles that would be killer apps on any other console seemed to be ignored,and only a handful of games broke into the TRST top 20 for units sold. Things were no better in Japan- Segas homeland - where brand-new software went straight to bargain bins.
PERHAPS GAMERS WERE STILL JADED OVER SEGAS MISTAKES WITH THE 32X and SEGA SATURN.
Maybe they were content with the hundreds of playstation titles.Its possible that they were saving thier pennies for the future release of Playstation 2, which despite even a botched launch, dominated Dreamcast once it released.
Like a Phoenix rising out of the ashes, Sega gave the remaing stock of units an unbelievable 50$ price point- about the cost of most next-gen games themselves. Add to that great Dreamcast titles being clearanced for about the cost of a music CD.
from GAME INFORMER magazine

[JesterDev]

THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS, NO ONE WAS BUYING.
After a highly successful launch,sales numbers dwindled to a near standstill.
third-party software developers and publishers didnt want to put big games on dreamcast until it sold better but that wouldnt happen until more big games showed up.
I

I personally have never believed that the reason no one was buying was because there was no 'big' games. I bought several games and enjoyed most if not all of them. I the reason I think they where not selling was because you could buy a bootleg copy of any game for $5 from what seemed like an endless variety of places. I know people who spent hundreds of dollars doing this. These places seemed to be racking in the cash, and I didn't see a single one go down till the craze ended. Sega should have stepped in and done something but they didn't.

Now personally I firmly believe that if a game is good, I want to support not only the console company, but the developers by buying the game. Obviously not everyone shares this same attitude, for various reasons. But in anycase this is what I believe caused the death of the console, and not the lack of big games.

Eitherway it was sad but came as no surprise when Sega made the announcement. But at least people are continuing to develop for it. I've seen some nice stuff out there. Have yet to try it however.

Now what really freaked me out was when I saw a advertisement for Sonic on the Gamecube.. That just did not sound right to me. I suppose it was then that I finally realized it was all over for Sega and the console war against Nintendo. Still to this day.. Sonic on a Nintendo?? O_O

[DigitalSpace]

This thread reminded me of a really interesting feature on the Dreamcast on 1up.com:

9/9/99: Five Years Later (http://classic.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3134527&did=13)

[Gemini-Phoenix]

I think one of the main reasons people stopped buying it was when the "resetting" fault became apparent after the first year.

Sega were too surprised at this too, and were forced to cease production as it would cost too much to fix the problem.

They started exchanging faulty consoles for a while, but when it became apparent that nearly all consoles were suffering, they decided to pull out - And eventually out of the hardware industry!


And who could really compete with Sony? One of the biggest corporations in the world! Sony got it right first time, and looks as if they got it right the second time too!!!

Plus, Sony has a lot more third party developers as well as most the biggest software developers making games for them (Square-Enix, EA, Konami Etc)


The PlayStation had a lot of great games - As does the PS2 - And the range is only rivaled by maybe the GameBoy (No contest really)

[s1lence]

When I was waiting in line for the PS2, its was a totally different crowd then the one for the DC. A large number of the people for the PS2 were talking about its DVD feature, keep in mind that was still a newer idea in 2000. The DC had more of the hard core gamer purchasing it, not famliies. People say the launch of the ps2 was screwed up, I say it wasnt, they just bulit up the hype for a system you couldnt get, just look at the current trend with the new style ps2. People (the masses) think its better so they buy it.

[rxd]

Sorry but I just don't buy the piracy argument at all. I didn't even know about their being a way to copy dreamcast games at the time. Also are you telling me the Xbox, PS2 and PS1 didn't have these problems? Today alot more people have access to CD burners, DVD burners and high speed internet access. It is much easier to get illegal games off the net today and burn them yourself. Also by this argument Nintendo should be raking in huge money with the Gamecube which doesn't have a big piracy problem.

Nope the piracy excuse just doen't hold up at all in my book. It's just a way of letting Sega's management off the hook for this disaster...

Just my 2 cents...

[Ernster]

Sorry but I just don't buy the piracy argument at all. I didn't even know about their being a way to copy dreamcast games at the time. Also are you telling me the Xbox, PS2 and PS1 didn't have these problems? Today alot more people have access to CD burners, DVD burners and high speed internet access. It is much easier to get illegal games off the net today and burn them yourself. Also by this argument Nintendo should be raking in huge money with the Gamecube which doesn't have a big piracy problem.

Nope the piracy excuse just doen't hold up at all in my book. It's just a way of letting Sega's management off the hook for this disaster...

Just my 2 cents...

As you crazy americans say........word to your mother! LOL Hahha I heard some WCW commentator say that years ago. x_x

[it290]

I agree with what s1lence is saying. I heard the 'DVD player' line from people on several occasions. Perhaps if the DC had a DVD player, it would have survived. I think the 'Sega confidence factor' had something to do with it, as well.... I probably wouldn't have purchased the console at launch if I wasn't a big Sega fan. Sega's lack of marketing certainly didn't help them, either.

However, the biggest blow to the DC, in my opinion, came in the form of Sony's 'cool'. The Playstation had definitively established itself as the 'adult' console in the years leading up to '99, and many people stuck with it just because of name recognition- not to mention all the buzzwords like 'emotion engine' and 'graphics synthesizer'. Ugh.

[Ernster]

I really dont think that Sonys "Emotion Engine" crap made a difference. Most mainstream PS2 owners wouldnt know about that if you asked them. Id say the reason why the DC failed is becuase everyone wanted to wait for the Playstation 2. That's it, IMO anyway.

[kainemaxwell]

"Resetting fualt"? When the system resets itself during a game?

[goatdan]

I think one of the main reasons people stopped buying it was when the "resetting" fault became apparent after the first year.

Sega were too surprised at this too, and were forced to cease production as it would cost too much to fix the problem.

They started exchanging faulty consoles for a while, but when it became apparent that nearly all consoles were suffering, they decided to pull out - And eventually out of the hardware industry!

:hmm:

What the hell are you talking about? I have never even heard of this made up problem before. I have heard of other ones, but... uh....

O_O



And who could really compete with Sony? One of the biggest corporations in the world! Sony got it right first time, and looks as if they got it right the second time too!!!

Plus, Sony has a lot more third party developers as well as most the biggest software developers making games for them (Square-Enix, EA, Konami Etc)

Konami made games for the Dreamcast. EA didn't, but that wsan't the only reason the DC died...

The differences between DC piracy and Xbox / PS2 piracy is that DC piracy could be done with no mod chip, no boot disk, nothing. You could just download and burn. With both the Xbox and PS2, without doing something to your system first, you can't just do that unless the advance happened recently and I didn't notice.

I won't start the DC piracy issue though, but I will say what I've said before: It was one of the major factors that lead to the DCs eventual demise.

[s1lence]

Yes, DC piracy is one of the major reasons, no modchip which means anyone with a clue could get games and burn them. Ps2 and XBOX both have piracy as well but both need modchips. Also the size of the game to pirate is a big difference as well, as all DC games could fit on a cdr, where as ps2 games are typically dvd size. If its easy people will do it, piracy hurt the DC.

[Push Upstairs]

As you crazy americans say........word to your mother! LOL Hahha I heard some WCW commentator say that years ago. x_x

Was Vanilla Ice doing commentary? I haven't heard someone say that in a non-facetious way since like 1992.



I thought i remember reading somewhere that the Dreamcast, or what would be come the Dreamcast, was very early on speculated to have a DVD drive in it.

[gonzo90017]

THE ARCADE GAME CHAOS FIELD WAS JUST RELEASED TODAY FOR THE DREAMCAST! http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=4&products_id=5449&&lsaid=219793 Then there's Ikaruga which actually came out on the dreamcast first then it came out about 6 months later for the other consoles. Also Psyviar 2 another arcade shoot-em-up was realased not to long ago! I'm still a big fan of the dreamcast. There is still a huge community for it. And there's a ton of stuff you can do with it. It can play Divx, VCD's, MP3's, use emulators! Then there are the homebrew games Beats of Rage along with many others. Then there's the VGA box which you can use to play your dreamcast on your computer monitor. In regards to the dvd player they actually had a few protos one which is mentioned here http://www.sonicunited.com/articles.php?articles=thedreamcastthatneverwas

[whoisKeel]

I'd agree with the first post, that people felt burned by the sega cd, 32X, and saturn. I remember when the dreamcast came out, my friends and I would joke that the Dreamcast wouldn't last 2 years before they came out with another system. I guess we were only half right.

Keep in mind most people only own ONE current gen system.

I actually didn't buy a Dreamcast until it was already pronounced dead (but you could still buy it in stores). I went to Target with a friend to buy a gba, and instead came home with a $99 dreamcast + vmu + sonic bundle.

Today, my DC gets more play out of all my 7 systems, maybe tied with NES. There's just so many great games available, and I've never played a DC game that I thought was just downright aweful, although it has it's share of mediocracy.

[whoisKeel]

oh...and what is 'emotion engine' anyways?

[goatdan]

THE ARCADE GAME CHAOS FIELD WAS JUST RELEASED TODAY FOR THE DREAMCAST! http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=4&products_id=5449&&lsaid=219793 Then there's Ikaruga which actually came out on the dreamcast first then it came out about 6 months later for the other consoles. Also Psyviar 2 another arcade shoot-em-up was realased not to long ago! I'm still a big fan of the dreamcast. There is still a huge community for it.

And Inhabitants / Maqiupai are finally back in production and will be coming out soon, as well as two more releases within the next few months if all goes well :)

[Habeeb Hamusta]

Although the Dreamcast did get a lot of publicity in the gaming community, I just don't think SEGA did a good job advertising and marketing to the general public. For some reason SEGA didn't really have the support of anyone. To me it always seemed like they were doing everything on their own. Sony has a lot of connections pushings their products and advertise a lot to a variety of people. Even though SEGA had much more fun games ( in my opinion), Sony just had more support. I also think the reason the Dreamcast did so bad is because the SEGA Saturn was pretty much an unknown thing to the general public. I mean, NO ONE had a SEGA Saturn from what I saw. Everything was about the Playstation and N64. So SEGA putting out a new system just didn't appeal to the kids who had been playing on a Sony system for such a long time because SEGA di a horrible job in advertising for the Saturn( in the U.S. at least ). Anyways those are just my thoughts.

[Mr.Faxanadu]

Yes, DC piracy is one of the major reasons, no modchip which means anyone with a clue could get games and burn them. Ps2 and XBOX both have piracy as well but both need modchips. Also the size of the game to pirate is a big difference as well, as all DC games could fit on a cdr, where as ps2 games are typically dvd size. If its easy people will do it, piracy hurt the DC.

I agree with this 100%!! I own 3 dreamcast and have never had it reset during a game. In fact, i've never even heard of this problem. I must admit I was probably a cause to the DC's demise. At first I purchased games but when the scene began to die I started downloading the games. Now that the system is dead I've been downloading them on a daily basis. I now have over 350 DC games !!

[EnemyZero]

i remember reading an article how when the ps2 was launched it was a huge hit at dvd stores and it was displayed for a dvd unit because when it was released it was the cheapest mag in japan...i read this somewhere on the web ..or maybe a mag....in that case..i would imagine if the DC had a dvd player..it could still be around...or at least lasted a while longer...R.I.P DC ::sob::

[Graham Mitchell]

Yeah, the DC was the gamer machine and the PS2 was the mainstream machine. Since the gamers buy every machine that comes out, it's the mainstream market that makes or breaks a console, in my opinion. PS2 had legions of people destined to buy a machine from the getgo because of backwards compatibility and the DVD feature.

It's a little different now; way more people I know have an Xbox than have a PS2. I won't debate why that is; that's a topic for another thread, but there's something about Xbox that non-hardcores go for; maybe it's something about the software, or the fact that you can mod those things really easily. But I couldn't pinpoint it definitively as I could with the DC vs. PS2 argument.

[ddockery]

I too don't think piracy was the problem. It to quite a while to crack the games, and at the point that happened, the DC was already dying a quick death. The rampant piracy only helped to speed it along.

[Captain Wrong]

Although the Dreamcast did get a lot of publicity in the gaming community, I just don't think SEGA did a good job advertising and marketing to the general public. For some reason SEGA didn't really have the support of anyone. To me it always seemed like they were doing everything on their own. Sony has a lot of connections pushings their products and advertise a lot to a variety of people. Even though SEGA had much more fun games ( in my opinion), Sony just had more support. I also think the reason the Dreamcast did so bad is because the SEGA Saturn was pretty much an unknown thing to the general public. I mean, NO ONE had a SEGA Saturn from what I saw. Everything was about the Playstation and N64. So SEGA putting out a new system just didn't appeal to the kids who had been playing on a Sony system for such a long time because SEGA di a horrible job in advertising for the Saturn( in the U.S. at least ). Anyways those are just my thoughts.

I think this is pretty much the story. Sure, piracy didn't help, but the really rampant stuff (and self-booters) didn't really pop up until the console was already on the way out. Personally, I don't know anyone who ran out to buy a DC because of all the WAREZ (not saying there aren't people who did) but everyone I did try to talk into buying a DC was holding out for the PS2. I think that's the problem, the industry as a whole was holding out for the PS2 and didn't really care about the DC.

Now, my own theory, based in part on an interview with Peter Moore in Next Gen that practically begged the observant reader to read between the lines, the cooler heads at Sega were trying to get out of the hardware biz after the bloodbath Sega too with the Saturn. Problem being that there had already been a considerable amount of R&D put into the Katana/Dreamcast project. So, to please the bean counters, the DC was launched in an attempt not to really become a viable gaming platform, but to recoup some of the R&D money Sega had already sunk into it. As it turned out, the system performed better than people had hoped but it was already on a path to the clearance rack from day one.

There's probably more to it than that. I also think the DC was put out there to launch new Sega properties and put the company in a better position to become a third party. After all, the DC did a lot to improve Sega's rep. I think had they tried to go third party after the Saturn, they would have struggled a lot more. At least with the DC they had a bunch of critically acclaimed games they could port over to the PS2 right away.

Anyway, that's my little theory. I've heard a couple of people who agree with me, but I've never really heard anything to back it up 100%.

[Graham Mitchell]

Now, my own theory, based in part on an interview with Peter Moore in Next Gen that practically begged the observant reader to read between the lines, the cooler heads at Sega were trying to get out of the hardware biz after the bloodbath Sega too with the Saturn. Problem being that there had already been a considerable amount of R&D put into the Katana/Dreamcast project. So, to please the bean counters, the DC was launched in an attempt not to really become a viable gaming platform, but to recoup some of the R&D money Sega had already sunk into it. As it turned out, the system performed better than people had hoped but it was already on a path to the clearance rack from day one.

There's probably more to it than that. I also think the DC was put out there to launch new Sega properties and put the company in a better position to become a third party. After all, the DC did a lot to improve Sega's rep. I think had they tried to go third party after the Saturn, they would have struggled a lot more. At least with the DC they had a bunch of critically acclaimed games they could port over to the PS2 right away.

Anyway, that's my little theory. I've heard a couple of people who agree with me, but I've never really heard anything to back it up 100%.

You may be partially right about some of that, but from everything I've read, Sega fought pretty hard to keep the DC alive the first year after PS2 was released. They dropped the price numerous times before they dropped it to $50. I remember there was a lot of activity with DC right before the end. I think Sega really was trying to get a viable platform going, they just had many things against them

[Habeeb Hamusta]

Now, my own theory, based in part on an interview with Peter Moore in Next Gen that practically begged the observant reader to read between the lines, the cooler heads at Sega were trying to get out of the hardware biz after the bloodbath Sega too with the Saturn. Problem being that there had already been a considerable amount of R&D put into the Katana/Dreamcast project. So, to please the bean counters, the DC was launched in an attempt not to really become a viable gaming platform, but to recoup some of the R&D money Sega had already sunk into it. As it turned out, the system performed better than people had hoped but it was already on a path to the clearance rack from day one.

There's probably more to it than that. I also think the DC was put out there to launch new Sega properties and put the company in a better position to become a third party. After all, the DC did a lot to improve Sega's rep. I think had they tried to go third party after the Saturn, they would have struggled a lot more. At least with the DC they had a bunch of critically acclaimed games they could port over to the PS2 right away.

Anyway, that's my little theory. I've heard a couple of people who agree with me, but I've never really heard anything to back it up 100%.

You may be partially right about some of that, but from everything I've read, Sega fought pretty hard to keep the DC alive the first year after PS2 was released. They dropped the price numerous times before they dropped it to $50. I remember there was a lot of activity with DC right before the end. I think Sega really was trying to get a viable platform going, they just had many things against them

I agree with Captain Wrong on this one. I do think SEGA were definately trying to set themselves up as a third party franchise. Being the first company to put out a 128-bit system is pretty respectable and it earned them the credability needed to become a third party and cooperate with the gaming community.

Also, I don't think SEGA were really trying to stay alive after the PS2 launched. They knew they were going down and dropping the price of your products wouldn't help keep them alive. They just did that because they had to. No one is going to buy an older system for the same price of a new one. SEGA was simply trying to get as much more profit as they could before they died.

[forgotten fans]

I think this is pretty much the story. Sure, piracy didn't help, but the really rampant stuff (and self-booters) didn't really pop up until the console was already on the way out. Personally, I don't know anyone who ran out to buy a DC because of all the WAREZ (not saying there aren't people who did) but everyone I did try to talk into buying a DC was holding out for the PS2. I think that's the problem, the industry as a whole was holding out for the PS2 and didn't really care about the DC.

Now, my own theory, based in part on an interview with Peter Moore in Next Gen that practically begged the observant reader to read between the lines, the cooler heads at Sega were trying to get out of the hardware biz after the bloodbath Sega too with the Saturn. Problem being that there had already been a considerable amount of R&D put into the Katana/Dreamcast project. So, to please the bean counters, the DC was launched in an attempt not to really become a viable gaming platform, but to recoup some of the R&D money Sega had already sunk into it. As it turned out, the system performed better than people had hoped but it was already on a path to the clearance rack from day one.

There's probably more to it than that. I also think the DC was put out there to launch new Sega properties and put the company in a better position to become a third party. After all, the DC did a lot to improve Sega's rep. I think had they tried to go third party after the Saturn, they would have struggled a lot more. At least with the DC they had a bunch of critically acclaimed games they could port over to the PS2 right away.

Anyway, that's my little theory. I've heard a couple of people who agree with me, but I've never really heard anything to back it up 100%.

I think there is a lot of truth to this theory. I don't remember his name, but one of the heads of SoJ (if not THE head) took responsibility for the Saturn failing and, at least according to segabase, used to DC as a way to regain his honor. It was never supposed to win, at least in some peoples' minds, it was there to improve personal and corporate images.

[esquire]

Yes, DC piracy is one of the major reasons, no modchip which means anyone with a clue could get games and burn them. Ps2 and XBOX both have piracy as well but both need modchips. Also the size of the game to pirate is a big difference as well, as all DC games could fit on a cdr, where as ps2 games are typically dvd size. If its easy people will do it, piracy hurt the DC.

Conversely, anyone (who has a modded ps2 or xbox) can go out and rent a DVD game and burn it, while you could not do so with the Dreamcast's GD-Roms. Every game for the DC had to be hacked using reverse technology. Joe Consumer could not go to Hollywood Video, rent some DC games and copy them. The games had to be hacked first by those with the knowledge, and then downloaded off IRC or FTPs. (and I imagine the average consumer would not know how/where to find the isos, let alone what IRC is in the first place). This is not true with the PS2 or XBOX. This is even more apparent by the fact that NOT ALL DC GAMES COULD FIT ONTO 1 CDR. Files had to ripped, music and video files were downsampled, and some games were were even broken into multiple CDs.

Thus, while the average consumer who bought a DC didn't have to buy and install a modchip, he sure as hell couldn't copy the games himself without the benefit of the DC hacking scene. The opposite holds true for the XBOX, PS2 and even the PSX/PS1. All of these systems need some form of modding to play pirated games (unless you use the swap trick on the early PSX's and on PS2s), while you can easily copy most games with the benefit of a copy program and iso modding software such as APPLYPPF and CRAXTION.

I personally have never believed that piracy killed the DC, or even was a major contribution to it. Why didn't the PSX fail? It's games were easily copied, and early versions of the PSX didn't even need a modchip. Piracy is even more rampant than ever, yet the XBOX and PS2 continue on.

I believe that it was Sega's failure to secure more quality releases and big software companies to produce releases for the system. While the DC had some great releases unique to the system (Soul Calibur, Power Stone, Sonic, Crazy Taxi) it had a lot of lackluster titles and games that were either obscure to the average consumer (Super Magnetic Neo, ChuChu Rocket, Pen Pen Tricelon, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure) or available on other systems (Gauntlet Legends, Ready 2 Rumble, Centipede and other Hasbro remakes such as Frogger, Ms. Pac-Man and Q-Bert). Sony just had a better and larger library, even if the DC was superior to the PSX. (yes I know there were crap games on the PSX as well, but it was more of a numbers and consumer confidence game at that point).

That's just my two cents.