What the hell is this game? (Intellivision)

[maxlords]

I saw this game in a pawn shop today and I will go and get it tomorrow if it's actually worth anything..it looked obscure enough to be worth some $. What it was was:

Turtle II Graphics by HES (Human Engineered Software)

It looked like an Intellivision cart, but it had a funny shape to it.

Anyone know what it is? GOD I wish I could afford a DP Guide!!!

[digitalpress]

It LOOKS like an Intellivision cartridge but it's not. My guess is that it's a Commodore 64 cartridge. And it's *bleh* not a game.

[maxlords]

Ok....thanks DP! The chip was the same size as an Intellivision one so I was hoping it was some obscure valuable thing! $$$$$! :) Ah well...worthless junk...should have known!

[CrazyImpmon]

If that cart is what I think it is, it's just a simple graphic drawing program that uses the ancient programming language called LOGO. Here's a quick sample of LOGO:

10 draw forward 10
20 turn right 90
30 draw forward 10
40 turn right 90
50 draw forward 10
60 turn right 90
70 draw forward 10

That would have drawn a box 10 pixels by 10 pixels. LOGO was almost as easy as BASIC but its use was limited to low grade graphics and was widely used in elementary schools. I did get an award from my school because I once helped teach the class on LOGO programming and I was only 8 or 9 at that time.

LOGO and many other programming languages have pretty much died out due to its limitation and the more modern language (particularly C++) could be used to write more complex program and could be compiled into native machine code.

Ya know what's pathetic? Even though I hadn't actually used any LOGO based program in decades, I probably still know enough to do an excellent imitation of nude Pamela on C64. :o@_@:o@_@:o@_@:o@_@

[kainemaxwell]

They used to show LOGO alot on Mr. Wizard's World when I was a kid and I learned it once at a computers class in elementary school they would hold on Saturday mornings for a couple months in the Winter.

[scooterb23]

Say Maxlords...umm...how much was it?? I've been wanting that cart if it is indeed what everyone says it is...I loved working with LOGO back when I was in school...let me know...I guess I probably should have done this as a PM, but I wanted to give everyone the chance to point and laugh at me for wanting it :)

[maxlords]

It was $4 Cdn + 15% tax. I can't believe I'm gonna say this but "It's cheaper on eBay!"

@ CrazyImpmon: I learned to use Logo back in grade school and Jr. High and still remember how to use it! :) ....you calling me ancient????

[CrazyImpmon]

No... ancient would be knowing and having actually worked on vaccuum tube based computer. LOL I only went as far back as the early memory module that was like 5" by 5", half inch thick and only held 1024 bytes. It was compromised of 16 x 16 wires in grid form, with tiny magnetic doughnet at every intersection. The direction of the magnet rotation determines a '1' or '0' on read.

I'm glad we got past that long ago, I'd hate to see how big it would have to be to handle 1 GB of RAM (1073741824 bytes) like my PC has. (That type of module can't be bankswitched and would have to be 20" by almost 11,000 miles wide to be 1GB @ 64 bit. The power requirement would be staggering!)

[slapdash]

No... ancient would be knowing and having actually worked on vaccuum tube based computer. LOL I only went as far back as the early memory module that was like 5" by 5", half inch thick and only held 1024 bytes. It was compromised of 16 x 16 wires in grid form, with tiny magnetic doughnet at every intersection. The direction of the magnet rotation determines a '1' or '0' on read.

Er, wouldn't 16 x 16 be 256, not 1024? That would be 32 x 32...


I'm glad we got past that long ago, I'd hate to see how big it would have to be to handle 1 GB of RAM (1073741824 bytes) like my PC has. (That type of module can't be bankswitched and would have to be 20" by almost 11,000 miles wide to be 1GB @ 64 bit. The power requirement would be staggering!)

I don't know... If you look at core memory (that's what the magnetic doughnut stuff above was called) over time, it shrank and shrank too. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad after all -- instead of photolithograhy on silicon, maybe on copper instead?

"Now, here's a picture of the inside of a 1 Gig memory chip... Even though the chip is the size of a dime, we've fit 1 billion little magnetic doughnuts on it, and you can see a bunch of them in this picture only because we've magnified the image millions of times. So, class, your homework today is to figure out how small each doughnut is, if the chip is only 1cm square." ...

[CrazyImpmon]

Er, wouldn't 16 x 16 be 256, not 1024? That would be 32 x 32...

I don't know, I suck at low level math. LOL


I don't know... If you look at core memory (that's what the magnetic doughnut stuff above was called) over time, it shrank and shrank too. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad after all -- instead of photolithograhy on silicon, maybe on copper instead?

Yeah I read. it seems IBM is also developing magnetic memory (called M-RAM) that supposedly reduces the power requirement and can allow the laptop to boot up to main desktop in a blink. Not sure if it's the same thing but the newest invention could be partly based on core memory.

Anyway here's the link to a web page with pictures and more info for others who are lost on this subject: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/coremem.htm

$6,000 for a plate of 1K RAM in the 50's-- YIKES!!! but it's non volitile so the old memory back from '50s could still be retaining the original data!

Oh BTW the homework: to make a 1sq cm chip hold 1 GB, each doughnut would have to be smaller than 30nm. This is how I got to the conclusion: I used GWBasic to do complex math as the built in Winblows calculator can't do power or square roots :P

To get 1GB, the chip would have to be in 32768x32768 byte array. So that figures to about 1/32768th per byte or 1/262144th of cm per *bit* Now we have to factor in some space needed between each doughnet and wires, but the maximum spacing would be around 30.5 nanometer per bit (1 nm = 0.00000001 cm, add 2 zeros for meter)

There you go. I may suck at simple math but I can crunch complex question. LOL I guess I need to get back to kindergarden for refresher course. LOL