Video Games in Media Mail

[FantasiaWHT]

Ok for months I've been shipping all my video games media mail (unless people upgraded to Priority, of course) and never had any problems.

Now the local post office people know me pretty well by now. The other day, one of them tells me that she had asked the local "expert" on media mail who told her that video games can't be sent media mail. I asked her, "Ok so I can send music CDs and movie DVDs, but I can't send games which are printed on CDs and DVDs? The same MEDIA? And she said no...

Anybody have any experience with this? Awfully hard to go to the post office and say "No, you're wrong" even though I'm pretty sure she is.

[Avatard]

Digital data is digital data, who cares what the extension is, .jpg, .mov, .mp3, .videogame (or whatever they use). If sending DVDs and music CDs is ok then she is a tard, tell her its music, she'll never know the difference cause she obviously doesn't understand technology. Just tell her she is wrong. Some movie DVDs have built in games. The is no grey area, sending games is obviously ok, she said it herself by saying you can send DVDs.

[Half Japanese]

I think it was PDF that explained in OT the other day that media mail was basically put in place for libraries to ship materials cheaply, not for Johnny Ebay to send whatever they had the cheapest way possible. So I don't think you're correct in your thinking of "oh they're ripping me off, and now they try to screw me" so much as it's been "I've been screwing them and now they put a cap on it." It sucks when you take advantage of something and it gets taken away, but thems the breaks.

[MegaDrive20XX]

That's a lie...she's wrong man...we recently had a disccusion about this about shipping magazines via media

[Avatard]

So you can't send any form of digital media?

[vintagegamecrazy]

They told me it was only for educational purposes, so I guess they are right.

[FantasiaWHT]

Maybe I can just pretend it's all "Matter for the blind" lol

If they wanted it to be JUST for libraries and the like, they could easily have required a tax-exempt card, or registration for NPO status, etc.

That really even doesn't make sense... yeah books are heavy for the amount of information they carry, but CD's and DVD's are very light (a single jewel case CD is usually cheaper to send first class than media mail). So why include CD's and DVD's in it?

[FantasiaWHT]

To quote from USPS.com...


Media Mail® service is a cost efficient way to mail books, sound recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes).

Another point against the "only for libraries" argument is that it IS a slower mail service. You pay for what you get...

[Half Japanese]

I never said it was "only for libraries," I said that I think I remember PDF saying that was what it was originally put in place for. I just think they're restricting what can and can't be sent via media mail because they've been losing a lot of money on it over the past few years as the ebay market has boomed.

If I've misparaphrased PDF, my apologies :D.

[Xantan the Foul]

Try to contact the Postmaster for your area, and see what he says. I think there is such a thing >_>

[esquire]

Actually, there is a separate rate for sending books. It is called "book rate" and is actually slower than media mail. The post office will stamp the package "bound material".

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49662

That's the existing media mail thread that has been referred to here.

[Sylentwulf]

Justin is right. Almost no post office is going to enforce it, but media mail is not for videogames, even though it's virtually the same item.

It's meant for educational purposes - schools, music, textbooks, libraries, all that knowledgable healthy crap.

[ddockery]

Heh, once I was there and the clerk was asking me if I thought comics should be aloowed. She was saying that magazines don't apply because of all of the ads, and aren't supposed to be allowed, so she wasn't sure about comics. I wasn't sending comics myself, but she knows I use the service a lot and was curious what i thought I tld her that even thoug there are maybe 2-3 adds in a lot of comics, that I thought they should still be allowed. I had never heard the ad rule before.

[Avatard]

My friend owns a comic store. He sells junk on ebay a lot, he uses media mail for all his comic book sales.

[Flack]

"Media Mail® service is a cost efficient way to mail books, sound recordings, recorded video tapes, printed music, and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). Media Mail can not contain advertising except for incidental announcements of books. The maximum weight for Media Mail is 70 lbs."

http://www.usps.com/send/waystosendmail/senditwithintheus/mediamail.htm

"Media Mail®: Small and large packages, thick envelopes, and tubes can be sent using Media Mail. Contents are limited to books, film, manuscripts, sound recordings, video tapes, and computer media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). Sometimes called "Book Rate," Media Mail cannot contain advertising. Media Mail is less expensive than Parcel Post."

http://www.usps.com/customersguide/dmm100.htm#WhatAreYouMailing

It appears to me the line is drawn between media intended for a computer (CD/DVD/Disks) (YES) and game cartridges or videogames (NO).

[josekortez]

Easy way to solve this: don't tell them it's a videogame.

[Arcade Antics]

Anybody have any experience with this? Awfully hard to go to the post office and say "No, you're wrong" even though I'm pretty sure she is.

She is correct. End of story.

Sending a CD or DVD game is only about $1 First Class anyway. x_x

[josekortez]

I had a trade package to send Media Mail today. I told the woman it was a DVD. It was really a GameCube game, but she'll never know the difference.

[Arcade Antics]

I had a trade package to send Media Mail today. I told the woman it was a DVD. It was really a GameCube game, but she'll never know the difference.

No, but you and the person you're sending it to will know the difference if the PO randomly inspects this package, or any other Gamecube game that you send via Media Mail. x_x

[Sylentwulf]

Yeah the funny thing is people who send one videogame by media mail instead of first class :)

Media mail is $1.43 for up to a pound, first class is $1.26 for 5 ounces (average cd based game weight). $.23 for each additional ounce.

[josekortez]

The other person sent their Xbox game to me Media Mail as well. I won't name the DP member out of respect for him, but suffice it to say Media Mail isn't a problem for me.

[slip81]

Easy way to solve this: don't tell them it's a videogame.

That's what I was going to say. It's not like that can open it to verify anyway, so they'll never know.

[Kai]

I had an issue with this once, when I bought some Atari games off ebay, and I asked the lady if she could send them by media mai since it was cheaperl. She flipped out on me and went on about how she had a contract with the post office and this would break it, etc etc. So I paid the higher rate, but my understanding of the official USPS term "computer readable material" I think should include video games. Because what is a Nintendo other that a small dedicated computer? And it seems kind of silly if they would strictly enforce the letter of the rule and say "Well, you can ship Morrowind media mail only if it is the PC verision, but not the Xbox version."

I did ask the lady at the local post office once, and she called someone else, and they weren't sure, so I emailed the customer service at USPS.com twice but never got a response. So if I'm mailing one game I always send it first class, but if it's a whole box I use media, and if they ask what it is I say software. Also, I noticed at half.com, when you sell video games they give you a media mail shipping credit, I always wondered if they checked that out with the post office.

[Arcade Antics]

Easy way to solve this: don't tell them it's a videogame.

That's what I was going to say. It's not like that can open it to verify anyway, so they'll never know.

Wrong. They most certainly CAN open it to verify.

[Arcade Antics]

I had an issue with this once, when I bought some Atari games off ebay, and I asked the lady if she could send them by media mai since it was cheaperl. She flipped out on me and went on about how she had a contract with the post office and this would break it, etc etc. So I paid the higher rate, but my understanding of the official USPS term "computer readable material" I think should include video games. Because what is a Nintendo other that a small dedicated computer? And it seems kind of silly if they would strictly enforce the letter of the rule and say "Well, you can ship Morrowind media mail only if it is the PC verision, but not the Xbox version."

I did ask the lady at the local post office once, and she called someone else, and they weren't sure, so I emailed the customer service at USPS.com twice but never got a response. So if I'm mailing one game I always send it first class, but if it's a whole box I use media, and if they ask what it is I say software. Also, I noticed at half.com, when you sell video games they give you a media mail shipping credit, I always wondered if they checked that out with the post office.

You can argue the point all you want, but video games are not allowed to be shipped as Media Mail. Not 2600 games, not CD games, not DVD games. Period. x_x

Some post offices DO have signs to that effect, some don't. Regardless, it's a no-no.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

As Dave pointed out, the post office does have the right - and does exercise the right - to randomly check media mail parcels, precisely because there has been fairly extensive abuse of the system. So yep, they certainly can verify it. They even have the right to ask you to open it up for inspection at the post office before they stamp it as outgoing media mail.

[D-Lite]

The post office is really cracking down on a lot of things:

1. No more free Priority Mail tape. On that note I saw a hockey team playing that all used the tape to tape there pants/skates. x_x

2. The Priority mailing labels now have a light "watermark" type of printing saying Priority mail, so no more cutting off the tops for regular mail

3. The free boxes all now say "US Postal Service Priority" or something on the INSIDE, so you can't flip them inside out to mail by regular services.

[SoulBlazer]

Can you blame them? I don't have on hand right now how much money the USPS loses each year, but they lose a lot -- and then pass it on to us with higher rates. :roll:

[Griking]

I personally don't see how the post office can argue that video games aren't considered media. The post office's website clearly defines media as..


"...and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). "

As someone had already said, videogame consoles ARE small computers and games are the media that the games are stored on. I haven't had a problem shipping via media mail at my local post office but I would think that printing this description from their website and bringing it to the post office with you should prove the point. If they want to change the requirements of media mail then they should modify its description on USPS.com and stop falsly advertising.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

Can you blame them? I don't have on hand right now how much money the USPS loses each year, but they lose a lot -- and then pass it on to us with higher rates. :roll:
DING DING DING DING DING! And we have a winner.

[JJNova]

Justin is right. Almost no post office is going to enforce it, but media mail is not for videogames, even though it's virtually the same item.

It's meant for educational purposes - schools, music, textbooks, libraries, all that knowledgable healthy crap.

THis is dumb reasoning also, considering that I am a Video Game Programming Student that is doing a work-at-home class from DigitPress' School for the Slow...

[jonjandran]

I personally don't see how the post office can argue that video games aren't considered media. The post office's website clearly defines media as..


"...and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). "

As someone had already said, videogame consoles ARE small computers and games are the media that the games are stored on. I haven't had a problem shipping via media mail at my local post office but I would think that printing this description from their website and bringing it to the post office with you should prove the point. If they want to change the requirements of media mail then they should modify its description on USPS.com and stop falsly advertising.


9 out of 10 Post Offices I go in have the new "Media Mail " poster on the wall. It clearly states " No video games or Video game hardware" on it.

As has been pointed out, it's not allowed, PERIOD ....

[mr_jiggles_13]

just use first class, its maybe 10 cents more. and gets there much much quicker.

i know i get mad when someone send a game to me, i send priority and they send media mail and i have to wait a week or more. it is just one of those things i dont like, just to save a few cents.........

[FantasiaWHT]

Whatever there policy *IS* it needs to be clearer. They should not have contradictory policies (posters that say no, websites that say yes)

If it's one DVD-case or CD jewel case then I send it first class, it's either cheaper or so close the couple pennies are worth the quicker delivery. I pretty much use media mail for larger quantities of games.

And I don't have the option of just pretending they are something else since they know me there so well :P And those automated machines don't allow you to send things media mail =(

I'm going to print that website quote out and bring it in next time tho.

[rbudrick]

JJNova, the original famous Konami code is U, U, D, D, L, R, L, R, B, A, Start. :D What game is the code you mention from?

I agree that the policy does need to be more clearly defined. Shit, we can put Linux on or PS2s and Gamecubes, and Xboxes. I dont see how these wouldn't be computers (not that they arent' already). I mean, does USPS have their hands in Bill Gates' wallet? Windows only PCs? Is that what they mean? I know, that obviously isn't true, but if so, it should be more clearly defined.

A computer is a computer is a computer.

-Rob

[JJNova]

JJNova, the original famous Konami code is U, U, D, D, L, R, L, R, B, A, Start. :D

-Rob

By God!

*eliminates unmistakable extra button pushes*

[Arcade Antics]

I personally don't see how the post office can argue that video games aren't considered media. The post office's website clearly defines media as..


"...and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes). "

They aren't saying that game DVDs, etc aren't media. They're saying that YOU CANNOT SHIP THEM VIA MEDIA MAIL. Big difference.


As someone had already said, videogame consoles ARE small computers and games are the media that the games are stored on. I haven't had a problem shipping via media mail at my local post office but I would think that printing this description from their website and bringing it to the post office with you should prove the point. If they want to change the requirements of media mail then they should modify its description on USPS.com and stop falsly advertising.

It's not false advertising. The website isn't meant to be the be-all, end-all, "Everything you ever needed to know about sending a package." You want to see the postal rules and regulations manual? It's girth would make Stephen King, John Grisham, and JRR Tolkien faint. There's no way they could put every single solitary fact on the site. And frankly, even when they do get around to adding that line to the site, you'll still send games MM anyway, so really, what's their hurry? LOL

I will grant you that the MM description on the site should explicitly say that video games are NOT covered, but the fact of the matter is that you already know that they're not covered under the MM banner, whether it was through a local post office with a poster on the wall, a local postal employee, or even this thread.

Perhaps everyone that feels that way ought to contact the USPS site and let them know. You can split hairs all you want, but when they come down on you, you'll get nowhere real fast.

[SoulBlazer]

I know that media mail is to be used for books and other printed materials. But I have sent many CD's (computer and video) by Media Mail over the years without any problems. It is cheaper to use First Class if it's a small package, but if the USPS has indeed clerifed the rules, I won't send any more CD's through Media Mail.

[ianoid]

Man, Arcade Antics, you are quite the postal nazi, aren't you?

Well, I go with this:

"...and recorded computer-readable media (such as CDs, DVDs, and diskettes)."

and I consider video games computer readable media. I don't send systems, or anything not media, but I just tell them I'm sending 'video tapes' when asked. I think that it's simply a stupid class of service if you are going to split hairs. I'll cross my fingers it doesn't come back to bite me.

[Griking]

Legal or not the only reason that this has become such an issue is because the post office feels the need to raise their rates every other year.

I'll tell you what, I'm just about one more rate increase away from shipping exclusively w/ UPS. They charge a bit more but a tracking number and $100 worth of insurance is included automatically.

[SoulBlazer]

Raising rates are due to losses. And Media Mail is ONE of the biggest reasons for the losses. Don't believe me? Look it up yourself. I hope it's not done away with, but it has been abused. This thread has mentioned some other recent things the USPS has done to try to stop the bleeding.

[FantasiaWHT]

I'm torn about price raises...

On one hand, they have a FREAKING MONOPOLY on an entire class of business- letter carrying. They have a significant market share (I'd be interested to see volume numbers) of package carrying. Why the hell they lose money is beyond me.

On the other hand... think of the value you are getting. For THIRTY-SEVEN PENNIES they will take any letter you have to anywhere in the entire country! $0.37! If somebody looked at me and said, "Hey bud, will you take this across the country for me if I pay you $0.37?" I'd walk away and laugh.

[rolenta]

I have problems sending legit media via media mail. I sent 23 books to a customer via Media Mail. He recieved 18 books and four of them were damaged! Fortunately I insured the package.

[Anthony1]

I did a post about this awhile back asking people why they go to the "actual" post office.

I ship most stuff via Media, unless it's like only 25 cents or less more to ship first class, or if the person specifically wanted first class or whatever.

I don't send systems media, I go Parcel Post instead, or sometimes with the flat rate box.

But in that thread I did, I explained that I never go to a "real" post office for precisely this reason. They ask to many questions when I want to send something media, and then there is the chance they could open my item.

Instead I go to a Grocery store that offers Mail Services, and I've never had a problem. I had one item opened once, but it was going to Hawaii, and they open more packages, because they are worried about fruit and stuff being shipped there that could have diseases or stuff.

[Bluteg]

Book rate transformed into media mail. Books now can be shipped cheaper by a "bound-printed material" rate which is even cheaper than media mail. Unless they want media mail too include all media they really need to change the name back. It's very confusing and I've had many ebay power sellers ship mulitple carts media mail and everything was sent fine. Since media can be any information on any material.

The defintion of media in our practical meaning is "An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on." This could mean carts, records, cassettes, CDs, paper with writing. It is a VERY broad term. So if the USPS wants this to stop they must change the name.

[ozyr]

In my own experience, it all depends on which post office you go to. Some will take your word for it, some won't.

Personally, I've been honest with this stuff. I send books book rate, actually media stuff media rate, and everthing else goes 1st class (unless the person buying something wants the crummy slower class). My post office trusts me, and I know the folks working there.

As for Media Mail - it is so general (in my opinion). I've gotten many a thing off of ebay that were not even considered Media, but they got the rate anyway (and overcharged me as usual - damb ebay sellers). As I mentioned, it all depends on where you go. If they don't trust you, there isn't much you can do about it.

[felix]

honestly.. the post office couldnt care less about if your shipping a video game or cd.. I mean, if you think its going to be a problem, buy the envelope beforehand and seal it up when you ship it.. This matter is stupid because mediamail is what $1.25-$1.50?? I have always send through USPS priority and I have never payed more than $3 :/ Whoopty-F@#kin-do



Heres an example of how much the usps cares..
http://www.improb.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.html

[Sylentwulf]

Oddly enough, I don't think anyone has brought up the point that EBGames super saver shipping goes by media mail..... I just got 2 clearly marked packages that were sent media mail.

[FantasiaWHT]

This matter is stupid because mediamail is what $1.25-$1.50?? I have always send through USPS priority and I have never payed more than $3 :/



Interesting, since priority mail STARTS at $3.85...

Media mail is $1.42 up to 1lb. First Class is cheaper up until 5 or 6oz.

[Arcade Antics]

But in that thread I did, I explained that I never go to a "real" post office for precisely this reason. They ask to many questions when I want to send something media, and then there is the chance they could open my item.
Just because you're not there doesn't mean they can't open the item. x_x They can open it at any point along the journey of the package for any reason. If they get a 40 lb box that someone shipped via media mail sent from Tennesee to California, the clerk in Wyoming could open it up on suspiscion of media mail abuse and then you're outta luck.

[TheHammerGod]

As a side note, I mailed out six games the other day and when I brought in a batch the next day the clerk (who knows me quite well from all my visits) told me an inspector opened my packages and wanted to return all of them to me but they told him I wasn't aware of the rules and he let them go through. I did get an official letter the following day stating that video games are not included in Media Rate and not to do it again. It even had a post master dated seal and all.

I really don't care since it is Ebay auactions, I just won't offer media rate anymore.

As to how they are managing to lose money there are three basic reasons.

1) Low postage rates - Yes, like Gas it is so very cheap to send things in this country compared to most. I'm surprised we haven't already had a comment from one of our friends overseas saying how lucky we are and it costs them so much more to ship things.

2) The Post Office pays other countries to deliver our mail when you ship overseas. This is one of those things people never consider but think about the mail going overseas compared to what is shipped here. To help offset the costs, the PO pays these countries for each package that they must deliver.

3) Yes they have a "monopoly" on home delivery but remember with this is a mandate that they have post offices available in just about every community across the country. I am sure we have all heard stories about the Post Office wanting to close low volume locations but being unable to or hearing about that Post Office in the middle of Alaska that gets mail to deliver once a month.

[MikeTV]

has anyone here who was denied media mail shipping for video games appealed it?

[anagrama]

We're not fooled, ande.

[jonjandran]

has anyone here who was denied media mail shipping for video games appealed it?

Appealed it ?

What go to small claims court over $5 to ship a system ? LOL