What's up with GameCube games?

[goatdan]

I have a few different questions that I was wondering that all fall under the same header:

- First, are Cube games getting rare? I went looking yesterday to pick up a game for another forum member, and I was checking to pick up some games for myself. In all three stores that I went to, the used Cube selection was less than 25 displayed games. When I asked at one store about a few games, the manager told me that he had four big drawers filled with Xbox games, six with Playstation games, and only 1/3rd of one drawer full of GameCube games. And he didn't have any PS2 or Xbox systems, but had about 20 used Cubes and countless new ones for sale.

I haven't seen more than a handful of Cube games at most stores that I've gone too lately. It took me almost a month to find Viewtiful Joe, and I am still looking for Pikmin. Is it just me, or are Cube games rare everywhere?

- Secondly, what's the deal with the strange GameCube game case design. When I first saw this, I thought I was looking at copies the store got from Blockbuster. Then I realized my Mario Kart: DD has this, as well as every new GameCube game... Why? To make it easier on Blockbuster?

[imanerd0011]

I have to say I've seen the same thing at my local EB. They have TONS of PS2 games, a decent amount of Xbox, and then a pretty weak amount of Gamecube games. Gamecube is also in the back left side of the store (near the Playstation 1 games), while the other 2 systems are right in the entrance. I don't think that they are rare, but I think that Gamecube stuff doesn't sell as well as PS2 or Xbox, so many stores don't have near as many games for it as they do the other systems.

[downfall]

1. I wouldn't say that Gamecube games are getting rare so much as I would say that they just aren't in demand like PS2 and Xbox games. Also, I doubt that there are as many copies of games produced for the Gamecube as compared to the others. Case in point, I was recently looking for one particular title that's featured on all three systems. I found exactly 2 copies of the Gamecube version anywhere, ebay included, and about 25 copies of the PS2 and Xbox versions. A shame, since I prefer to buy Gamecube versions when applicable. It's not even a rare game either, like NCAA College Basketball or whatever. I would tell you what it is, but I would actually like to get a sealed copy for a decent price while I have the opportunity! LOL I'll edit when the auction is over.

2. No idea, though I seem to remember reading why somewhere before. :embarrassed:

[studvicious]

I believe it's because it's not selling software as strong as PS2 and Xbox, that's why you see very little of lying around. I've also noticed that Pikmin is getting harder to find.

[Arcade Antics]

I have a few different questions that I was wondering that all fall under the same header:

- First, are Cube games getting rare? I went looking yesterday to pick up a game for another forum member, and I was checking to pick up some games for myself. In all three stores that I went to, the used Cube selection was less than 25 displayed games. When I asked at one store about a few games, the manager told me that he had four big drawers filled with Xbox games, six with Playstation games, and only 1/3rd of one drawer full of GameCube games. And he didn't have any PS2 or Xbox systems, but had about 20 used Cubes and countless new ones for sale.

I haven't seen more than a handful of Cube games at most stores that I've gone too lately. It took me almost a month to find Viewtiful Joe, and I am still looking for Pikmin. Is it just me, or are Cube games rare everywhere?

Toys R Us typically has the biggest selection of Cube games, followed by Target and Best Buy. Viewtiful Joe is still in abundant supply at all of those stores in the "Greatest Hits" styled packaging.

Just guessing here, but I'd think they also have Pikmin (I haven't looked for it lately, but I know they used to have it). If there's not a Target near you, another forum member could probably snag one for you if you're getting desperate.

I have noticed that Circuit City has substantially fewer Cube games than they used to have in the past, but with anything like this, YMMV. :)

I stopped going to EB and GameStop when they stopped carrying 8 and 16 bit games, so I can't comment on those stores. :)

[goatdan]

I found my copy of Viewtiful Joe in Best Buy, actually.

But the used copies is what I find so odd. It doesn't make sense to me that if the Cube was not in demand that there wouldn't be any copies available -- it isn't like GameStop and EB aren't buying games from people -- they have TONS of used games for the other systems, but very few for the Cube. If so many people are selling their Cube's, I don't understand where all the games have gone...

????

[studvicious]

I stopped going to EB and GameStop when they stopped carrying 8 and 16 bit games, so I can't comment on those stores. :)

EB Games still does

[SirDrexl]

I find so odd. It doesn't make sense to me that if the Cube was not in demand that there wouldn't be any copies available -- it isn't like GameStop and EB aren't buying games from people -- they have TONS of used games for the other systems, but very few for the Cube. If so many people are selling their Cube's, I don't understand where all the games have gone...

????

Just a guess, but maybe it's because many of the people selling their Cubes didn't buy that many games for it? I could see someone buying a system just to play one or two of the Nintendo-produced games like Zelda or Mario.

[Arcade Antics]

I stopped going to EB and GameStop when they stopped carrying 8 and 16 bit games, so I can't comment on those stores. :)

EB Games still does

Yeah, EB is weird - some still have them, many don't. I guess they still sell them online, but still... :)

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, I've been seeing less and less GameCube games at my local GameStop, and they were moving further and further back (now they can't get any further; they're against the back wall). It's kind of saddening, but what can ya do. At the very least, Game Boy Advance games are still quite prominent in the store.

[Nature Boy]

I believe it's because it's not selling software as strong as PS2 and Xbox, that's why you see very little of lying around.

Bingo. If you have only 10% of the market it's not unreasonable for the used section to be 10% Gamecube games.

(The 10% is a made up number of course - but the logic is sound).

I wouldn't call any of it rare though. Not unless it was a limited print run or something. It could just be that 'cube owners tend to keep their games more so than other console owners (or something like that).

[goatdan]

I believe it's because it's not selling software as strong as PS2 and Xbox, that's why you see very little of lying around.

Bingo. If you have only 10% of the market it's not unreasonable for the used section to be 10% Gamecube games.

(The 10% is a made up number of course - but the logic is sound).

I wouldn't call any of it rare though. Not unless it was a limited print run or something. It could just be that 'cube owners tend to keep their games more so than other console owners (or something like that).

I agree sort of... but the thing is that I keep seeing SO many GameCube systems, and so few games. I see no Xboxes or PS2s, and I see TONS of games for them.

When the Dreamcast was dying out, there were tons of Dreamcast games everywhere because people were selling the system and their games. I picked up nearly an entire US collection in a period of a few months during this time. The GameCube, sadly, seems to be getting to the same dying out point with tons of GameCube systems being sold... but where are all the games for them?

If the system wasn't selling games as strongly as the PS2 or Xbox (which it's not), shouldn't we be seeing more used games, instead of less? It just seems to not make sense to me...

Maybe Cube owners are more likely to keep their games. Just a theory, it could be because Cube owners are generally younger who don't purchase their own games, and therefore aren't trying to get a little money back to pick up a new game with.

[studvicious]

or maybe it's because the manufacturers aren't printing as many copies of Cube games as the other 2?? There's no sense in printing as many copies if you know people aren't as likely to buy them.

[omnedon]

Microplay owner I know has cut his new selection of Cube games waaaay waaay back, due to low sales.

:/

[DigitalSpace]

Just guessing here, but I'd think they also have Pikmin (I haven't looked for it lately, but I know they used to have it). If there's not a Target near you, another forum member could probably snag one for you if you're getting desperate.

From my experience, Best Buy and Target don't carry Pikmin anymore - I believe Target actually cleared out Pikmin last year. They have Pikmin 2, just not the first one.

But yeah, I don't see it around that much either. It's getting uncommon, but I don't ever see it becoming a rarity.



I stopped going to EB and GameStop when they stopped carrying 8 and 16 bit games, so I can't comment on those stores. :)

EB Games still does

Not around here. But maybe that's because the 4 EB stores in this area are mall stores.

Anyways, here's what I've seen locally with the used stuff:

Game Crazy: The GC selection is pretty small at almost every Game Crazy I've been to. One I went to last night only had about 30 different games, and the one near my house always seems to have less than that. One location seemed to have a pretty decent selection, though.

EB: One of the EB's I stop by on a regular basis usually has a good amount of used GC on stock. It doesn't match up to the PS2 and Xbox sections, but it has one of the better used GC sections in town. They were running pretty low during the recent "Buy 1, get 1 half off" sale, though. The GC section is in the back. The other one I stop by has always seems to have a decent stock too - a little better than the average Game Crazy, I'd say. And the GC section is in the front of the store.

GameStop: Most of the local GS stores have their GC stuff in the back. A decent selection of stuff, too. I noticed that most stores were starting to run low during the last B2G1 sale, but it isn't happening this time around (maybe because this one and the last were so close together).

Of course, there's always more PS2 and Xbox stuff at these places, but at least the GC selection isn't weak.

[Iron Draggon]

Remember the SegaCD? Remember the Saturn? Remember the Dreamcast? Wonder why Gamecube games are harder to find than games for the other systems? Let's just say that Nintendo is the new Sega, on it's way out of the console business. Sure, they may survive on handhelds, but they might as well forget consoles. They're wasting their time now, just like Sega was. Don't believe me? Just wait. None of the Sega fanboys believed it either.

[sabre2922]

I think most GC owners have a tendancy to keep the majority of the games they purchase at least the "older" GC owners.
I know that Im currently trying to buid my GC collection while I can still actually find games for it especially the great ones like the VJ games and Metroid prime:hunters.
I have 14 games for my PS2 7 PSone games, 8 Xbox games that includes only one sports game and only 4 Gamecube games althought they are some of GCs best Metroid Prime-the Legend of Zelda:WW-Baton Kaitos and RESIDENT EVIL 4 they are still around 5 or more must-get games that Im currently trying to acquire to be content with my GC collection.
after I get all the RE games and especially the new Zelda that will probably be the end of my GC collecting until I can actually find other games for it O_O

[esquire]

I stopped going to EB and GameStop when they stopped carrying 8 and 16 bit games, so I can't comment on those stores. :)

EB Games still does

Not around here. But maybe that's because the 4 EB stores in this area are mall stores.

Bingo. Mall stores (which pay higher rent and have less shelf space) can't afford to keep Genesis games in stock especially since the profit margin is so much lower, when they could be using the extra space to sell current generation games and accessories at a higher profit margin. All of the EBGames around me that carry 8 and 16 bit games are all located in strip malls or store fronts, not indoor shopping malls.

[YoshiM]

I think most GC owners have a tendancy to keep the majority of the games they purchase

I think you may be on to something. Another possibility is that perhaps stores like EB and such aren't willing to cough up much dough for Cube games in trade.

[Dimitri]

Weird, the Gamestop near me has the Gamecube stuff in the front, with the GBA next to it, and PS2 and XBox in the back with the PS1 bin and the strategy guides. There's as much GCN stuff as there is XBox, too. :hmm:

[NoahsMyBro]

Sadly, I noticed several weeks ago that the weekly Sunday-newspaper circulars have almost completely stopped advertising gamecube games.

Best Buy, Target, Cirucit City, etc... - their ads no longer inlcude gamecube games next to the PS2, XBox, and GBA sections.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Stores have known that the Cube was dying for a long time - They just don't want to be the one holding the hot potato when it's demise does eventually come - As no one can prdict when it's going to happen, the stores are playing it safe by only stocking limited games.

[vincewy]

Being an unpopular system among the mass market is what draws me to collect games for a particular system, unfortunately GC library comes to a point where I'd not want to collect all of the games for it, enough junk already.

Nonetheless, I'm amassing GC games, pretty much all sealed, I'm still debating whether to open them or not, some games I know they'll not be opened as I can always get them on other systems to play.

[Richter Belmount]

I decided to get all the quality titles now , Gcube games are becoming so uncommon , ps2 has 2 shelves of games while gcube has half a shelf of games , thats just sad. Took me a while to track down a prince of persia sands of time for gc

[FurinkanianFrood]

Remember the SegaCD? Remember the Saturn? Remember the Dreamcast? Wonder why Gamecube games are harder to find than games for the other systems? Let's just say that Nintendo is the new Sega, on it's way out of the console business. Sure, they may survive on handhelds, but they might as well forget consoles. They're wasting their time now, just like Sega was. Don't believe me? Just wait. None of the Sega fanboys believed it either.

What angers me so much is that Sega systems failed when they all had much better games than the PS2. Yeah, there are some games on PS2 that have some "entertainment value" or "fun to be had" or whatever, but Sony's systems to me symbolize all of what has gone wrong with videogames. I knew Sega systems were going to die and I bought them anyway, because they were better (Admittedly the Saturn library was weak here, but thats why I have 70+ imports and like 4-5 domestic for that one).

I don't want to start a war over this or anything, but I can't help hating Sony. I have seen so many drives self destruct it isn't even funny. Before anyone accuses me of being biased, I used to collect PS stuff. Think about how I felt when I realized why I had so little on PS other than RPG's. Because everything else was 95% crap maybe?

Present/Past:
Sega = decent systems, great games, crappy business
Sony = pretend their systems are powerful (and don't self destruct) and people believe them (why?)
garbage, really good at selling it, or people just have no taste whatsoever
Nintendo = good games, they are gonna keep trying until they would collapse into nothingness financially by staying in the market (Portables are gonna allow them to dabble for a while at least)
M$ = Decent system, some good games now and then. Don't know if they can keep it up, but they can throw money at problems at suppose.

Future:
Sega: Haha. I will stil be working on my Megadrive collection though...
Sony: I am 90% percent sure Sony is gonna screw themselves royally with the PS3 hardware. The Cell chip is complete BS (any engineer who tells you otherwise is on something or works for Sony/IBM/etc. They have commited to Blu-ray before the future DVD format war is decided. Cell and Blu ray will make the system stupidly expensive (and delay it until kingdom come).
Nintendo: Who freakin' knows, it's the speculation that sets me off like this (Not that this is a phase, I would have to be paid to take Sony junk off peoples hands)
Microsoft: Time advantage, price advantage. It depends on what the future is.

Why did the DC fail? It had plenty of good games. Do people have no taste?
Are people gullible enough to believe Sony's hype?

Why does a piece of junk with such weak launch titles stomp an established, better, less expensive system into the ground.

I know I am a hater, but I don't like facing a future where there could potentially be no systems worth a @#$% with games in development. Even if you like the games (heck I like about a dozen on the #$%^ thing), do we really want to see the non video game companies destroy the older companies? And how many decent games will there be without true 1st party development? Without influence from Nintendo and other real game companies, what would have happened after '84.

What happened when games became big business the first time?
People thought Atari was hot didn't they? People who didn't understand games controlled the game industry, and it was effectively destroyed for a time.

Don't think Sony can't make huge mistakes that will kill their market share.
And if they do, I hope the next Corp that gets involved actually gives a $%^& about games.

If the Gamecube and it's successor die prematurely, and the XBOX2 fails in Japan, may the future of gaming R.I.P.

And people wonder why I collect games as if they were going to stop making them.

Sega Forever. Nintendo Forever. NEC Forever. SNK Forever. Atari Forever. Intellivison Forever. Just not Sony dang it.... No more consoles made by companies who's TV's cost C's more for no apparent reason (and their speakers are bad too. (vinyl) Analog audio forever, down with CD's!) (MP3's are worse, dang kids)

[Half Japanese]

I can't believe it's so hard for some to wrap their brain around why things are the way they are. Bottom line is, the Gamecube isn't delivering the games people want to play. When I say "people" I don't mean the inhabitants of this forum, I mean the general public. While we can all recognize the greatness of games like Metroid Prime, Pikmin, 1080 Avalanche and so forth, the general public just isn't as interested in these as they are in games like Halo 2 and the GTA series, simple as that. Failure to attract the 3rd parties whose games people want to play will always be a downfall.

The Dreamcast had to stumble along without the support of EA, and although they did a mighty fine job without it, it hurt at least a little bit (yes, I know, EA is evil and all that jazz). Bottom line with the DC was: people held out and wiated for Sony to show their cards. Even though the ps2's launch lineup was the poker equivelant of a pair of deuces, the included DVD capability and the hype were enough to cover the funeral expenses of the Dreamcast.

You're simply seeing history repeating itself. Regardless of how high quality the games are, if the public isn't interested, it doesn't matter anymore. Look at games like Prince of Persia. Sands of Time was arguably the best game released in 2003, but it didn't meet sales expectations and therefore Warrior Within had tacked-on edginess that felt cheesy and unnecessary. It all comes down to money, and Gamecube games aren't bringing enough of it in to justify that much space in most retail locations. Like it or not, that's the way it goes.

And I know it's almost impossible around these parts, but is it really necessary to hate Sony and Microsoft so much? Remember the 80's when Nintendo was in their spot and bullying everyone else around. What goes around comes around...

[FurinkanianFrood]

First of all, the Cube is alive until the N pulls support, which isn't exactly imminent. It may be dead to many people, but Nintendo isn't to the point of pulling the plug as quick as Sega did, though the support lifetime of the GC will be very short by Nintendo standards.

Quote:

And I know it's almost impossible around these parts, but is it really necessary to hate Sony and Microsoft so much? Remember the 80's when Nintendo was in their spot and bullying everyone else around. What goes around comes around...

Endquote:

I am a Sega/NEC/SNK fan these days by the way, Nintendo has been worrying for a number of years with the decrease in 1st party dev on non-portables (Rare was never quite the killer people made it out to be) and their inability to realize why they lost 3rd party support (not that they should have, but they are starting to act like Sega, i.e. a non-business-like entity that has greatness but is eternally clueless.) It seems like they almost gave up on the non-portable Japanese market sometimes, what with so many (admittedly great) games that the J market is biased against, like M Prime 2. I think that the mainstream gaming disease may be having worse effects in Japan than it is here.

The size of the Japanese market has decreased, and while it's influence has decreased, it still triggers an effect:

1. Lack of/ sparse Japanese development on a system
2. Weaker game library
3. Weaker US console sales
4. Weaker US + JP software support
5. Goto step 2

Essentially, this cycle has been burning Nintendo horribly since the N64.
Once the third party support goes, it is darn tough to get it back.

I think Sony will trip up with the PS3 (see technical rant below for explanation). (And when I say a hardware trip-up I'm talking delays+Jaguar level hardware concerns+price point)

If M$ doesn't trip up it will eventually be

1. MS
2. N
3. ???

To be honest, I actually like the XBOX. There are enough suitable games to justify it's existence.

There are enough decent games to justify the PS2's existence, but thats not what bothers me.

I suppose my question shoudn't be why did the DC etc. fail, but rather, why does the public not want good games?

And I can answer that one myself I suppose, or rather realize that there is no answer which can make sense to me.

And the thing about EA answers my question as well. Why their stuff sells so well I don't know (though they had some decent stuff back in the day, on Genesis and 3D0 at least).

It just seems funny that I can think of semi-ok (to me anyway) explanations for timeless philosphical quandaries but what drives the VG market always eludes me. But in the end I suppose many people outside this forum are like most people: nasty, brutish, and despite varying in literal height, short on something (that indescribable quality that allows me to be glad I'm not "sane"/ a slave to pop culture / a wannabe neocon.)

As soon as I found a decent place to talk about games, my whining about games became largely irrelevant.

I forget at night that I have no idea what the public wants. If I did I would understand reality shows and whatnot (Why they are popular I mean. Are they still? I might not notice...)

I just get paranoid that one of these days no one will step in to become the new tragically hip, doomed to fail, really great game company.

Quote:

Bottom line with the DC was: people held out and wiated for Sony to show their cards. Even though the ps2's launch lineup was the poker equivelant of a pair of deuces, the included DVD capability and the hype were enough to cover the funeral expenses of the Dreamcast.

Endquote

I guess it just irritates me that people are dumb enough to believe Sony's hype, and to keep believing it when it becomes obvious BS (to smart people). The PS2 is a weak (if functional) DVD player, but people can't tell that either I suppose. The DVD capability wasn't worth the price difference, but people are funny.

It just makes me mad that there weren't a few more people (that I could find until relatively recently at least) who knew that Sony was full of crap.

Sony's game division will fall. It is true that what goes around comes around (and Nintendo had enough quality to shut people like me up about this kind of stuff back in the day, actually they had so many nice games I didn't really notice at the time).

I really do think the PS3 is gonna fail, the technology is too flawed (unless IBM really comes up with a revolutionary OS for the thing, which would require some time to be a viable game platform, instead of just plunking down a port of Linux or something (which won't scale in a way that would take advantage of the hardware).

Seriously, I've seen (likely, I don't have a PS3 dev unit of course, assuming they really exist today and arent BS) better performance out a bunch of (a hundred or so) 486's rigged together (admittedly through a high-speed backplane). And god help game dev's get anything done on something like that (not too bad as a supplemental source of processing for the less complex side of protein folding or what have you though.)

Game code = Very Sequential
Multiprocessing = Overhead overidden in cases of many processes or threads, overhead a burden in sequential applications.

I don't like splitting main game loops into multiple threads dangit, and 16 is just insane. Like I said, even if IBM creates an OS to handle this transparentely, the overhead will just move to the OS and bog down performance immeasurably.

It is possible to get something like Cell to work, but in terms of time and cost Sony doesn't have time for bazillion man-hour computer science research breakthrough. The processor is peanuts compared to what is need to make it functional and affordable.

It almost seems to me like IBM is using Sony for funding, knowing that they can use the thing for crazy servers in 2008 or something, after laughing at the PS3 debacle, which they will have made a pretty penny in spite of by supplying processors for the PS3 (not to mention the other upcoming consoles).

Who ever loses, IBM wins (or maybe not, but eh)

[/quote]

[FurinkanianFrood]

Sorry about the double, thought I got kicked by network issues.

[sabre2922]

I guess thats one of the many great things about this forum is the fact that 99% of us have the ability to both see and appreciate a great game/system no matter if it is mainstream or not.
I have to admit that the Xbox is probably my favorite system when it comes down to it even though I luv my little platinum cube and it sees just as much play as the Xbox.
even though I have more games on the PS2 right now in large part because I can find some of the better games for cheaper on PS2 I just cant comprehend why so many gamers (mostly casual i think) beleive that Sony and the PS2 is soo freakin great :angry:
heres a perfect example: I take my cube over to my friends house (who is totally brainwashed by the PS2 by the way) to show off RE4 and Metroid Prime. He was very surprised by metroid and practically amazed by RE4 because hes always been under the impression that the GC was like some PSone clone or something LOL anyway after we play the games for a few hours he says this, and this is a direct quote: they should have put it (RE4) on PS2 it would have been just as good :angry: I then went on to inform him that a PS2 version was supposedly in development but it was highly doubtful that it would turn out to look as good as the GC version and that kinda pissed him off LOL

[chrisballer]

Weird, the Gamestop near me has the Gamecube stuff in the front, with the GBA next to it, and PS2 and XBox in the back with the PS1 bin and the strategy guides. There's as much GCN stuff as there is XBox, too. eyebrow.gif





Mine is the exact same way, There are tons of cube games where i live and most of the people i know that game like at work etc.. have a cube and alot of them have ps2's also. not so many xbox's but alot of my friends are starting to buy them.

[FurinkanianFrood]

I like some games on PS2 OK, the main reason I sold the thing (along with my other Sony consoles and games) was to help fund my PC Engine collection. It's very addictive.




PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:16 am Post subject:
I guess thats one of the many great things about this forum is the fact that 99% of us have the ability to both see and appreciate a great game/system no matter if it is mainstream or not.
I have to admit that the Xbox is probably my favorite system when it comes down to it even though I luv my little platinum cube and it sees just as much play as the Xbox.


That's about where I am right now with current systems. As far as underappreciated consoles, where else can one frequently find people who collect Jag games (yeah, other than Atari specific sites though). :)

Since when has Nintendo ever had the kind financial problems Sega did. As long as Nintendo is a successful business someway or another (Portables, and I don't think that Gamecube game sales are low enough to scare them yet).

Metroid Prime 2 came out at a very bad time, too much mass market competition, though it woudn't have matched the first in sales anyway because of general trends.

Halo 2 is a nice FPS, though I won't buy it for some time yet (I am not a FPS person by any means), but I can't understand the popularity of GTA. Amusing I can accept, but good? I kind of liked the ones before 3, but eh.

Hopefully Nintendo is saving some big guns for the next generation launch, that is really when Nintendo's future will be decided. Personally I think Sony is on a doomsday course toward massive PS3 failure (see previous posts, or not, they may seem a bit odd I admit).

What I really want to know is what effect a Microsoft coup of the US market (which I expect and don't have a problem with), will have on Japan. Without a strong US base, it seems that large developers may be forced to move their blockbusters to XBOX2 to avoid financial ruin, and porting games between the the Xenon and PS3 seems like it may be a hopeless endeavour. (Does Sony want non-portability for some stupid reason? hmmm.)

Some of this also depends on currency fluctuations (Nintendo's recent first losing period was from Yen issues). A stronger Yen or the weak dollar may cause the PS3 to be psychotically expensive in the US, even more than the Cell and Blu-ray would suggest. Nintendo's product, while probably not dropping in price as quickly in the Gamecube did, would be more reasonable in terms of manufacturing/marketing cost, and could snag the number two spot.

Effectively I expect the kind of effect that burned Nintendo so many times to have a much more extreme effect on Sony (with regions switched around in places). Namely:

1. Weak US hardware sales due to late start/high cost/weak library(technical difficulties cause/exacerbate these)
2. Weaker US developer support
3. Weaker US system sales
4. Weaker Japanese support (don't think for a moment that the big guns don't follow the money).
5. Goto 2

Eventually Japanese developers could be forced financially to primarily support the XBOX2, which may in turn lead to eventual acceptance in Japan.

For all we know MS may be desperate enough to start trying to outright takeover some established Japanese game companies, though probably not if currency trends continue as they have.

MS has EA support now, and though I hate EA, MS needs support to overtake Sony.

Nintendo aside, I don't think Sony is capable of taking on Microsoft in the next gen. Too many issues with PS3, XBOX is established to a reasonable extent.

Oh, and there is also the question of whether US developers, having seen that the XBOX made it, would be confident enough to start developing big name titles at least temporarily exclusive to XBOX2 in the absence of solid PS3 info/dev kits. XBOX2 may seem rather less risky than PS3 before long.

Sometimes I wonder if we are seeing the culmination of an approximately twenty year cycle, the death and rebirth of the American console. It is as if there were only four generations so far:

1. proto-console era (dedicated pre VCS and such)
2. Atari et al. Era (Golden Age - US Consoles)
~ The Crash - Companies push things too hard by flloding the market with cheap junk
3. Nintendo ushers in golden era of Japanese consoles, Sega and NEC have success in some territories as well.
4. Playstation signals the beginning of the waning era of Japanese consoles
~ Death of Playstation triggered by Sony's inability to realize they are pushing things too far. (PS2 is loaded with cheap junk (much of it JP only!) as we speak. PS3 is too ambitious.)

Future era: M$ and lord knows who else, possibly a reasonable balance between US and JP consoles?

Time flows like a river. and history repeats....

[goatdan]

Sadly, I noticed several weeks ago that the weekly Sunday-newspaper circulars have almost completely stopped advertising gamecube games.

Best Buy, Target, Cirucit City, etc... - their ads no longer inlcude gamecube games next to the PS2, XBox, and GBA sections.

Its odd that you say that because I thought that especially during the Christmas season, the Cube had the most paper time of any console. Since no one else had Xboxes or PS2s in stock, Cubes were advertised everywhere and with the great Mario Kart bundle deal, seemed to be selling strongly.


Remember the SegaCD? Remember the Saturn? Remember the Dreamcast? Wonder why Gamecube games are harder to find than games for the other systems?

First off, I don't think that GameCube games are harder to find than Sega CD games. If you were trying to compare the GameCube to those systems though, I'd disagree -- when the Saturn and Dreamcast were dying, you could find their games everywhere. Like I noted, I picked up nearly an entire US DC collection very quickly during that time. I remember seeing tons of Saturn games at one of the local GameStop's too.

And both of those systems sold less than the Cube, but I saw more games.

Another idea about what could be happening is this -- a ton of people ended up getting GameCubes for Christmas, and because of that they went to purchase games. Since the Cube sold so poorly until recently, the earlier games that were made in much smaller quantities were snapped up by people. This would make sense to me too, as it seems that the craptacular titles and the titles that are really expensive (Zelda 4-Pack Promo Disk, I'm talking about you that I see everywhere!) are easily found, while titles that are actually decent on the system -- Pikmin, Viewtiful Joe, WaveRace, Mario Party, etc. -- are now in the hands of new users.

It could mean that the Cube has more life in it right now than people expected, but Nintendo needs to capitalize by putting out something that is really impressive. I guess we'll see...

[Nature Boy]

If you want to read/write about why Sony sucks or PS3 is gonna fail I don't think it belongs in a thread about Gamecube games and why they're so hard to come by. Start a new thread.

I *think* I read a comment way back about there being a disproportionate number of used systems available compared to games. My only guess there would be that cube owners tend to buy less games, or maybe people are selling their cubes because they *don't* have the selection of a PS2. That's all just guesswork though.

I think the Dreamcast comment is pretty close to the mark, although I don't believe Nintendo is going to exit the console market anytime soon like the author suggested. They still have their handheld sales to prop themselves up (and the PSP isn't a guaranteed market share stealer like PS3 will be).

[stressboy]

FuninkanianFrood hates Sony and wants to keep reminding everyone.



What does that all have to do with a thread about Nintendo?

[FurinkanianFrood]

I don't think that Gamecube games are getting rare, some stores just decide what to stcck depending on the winds of the market. That's why I often don't take time to bother with standard sources if I am unsure of availability.

I did not type the below sentence in any of my posts (unless I am more insane than I thought or it was a really weird auto-edit or something.), why it was quoted I haven't the foggiest. And where the heck is Funinkan? It's Furinkan dangit. Don't make me get Tomobiki-esque here.... And Iscandar, you wouldn't like me when I start with the Iscandar.

FuninkanianFrood hates Sony and wants to keep reminding everyone.

This is the final post on this subject (in this thread at least).

I only started about Sony to counter the posts suggesting that Nintendo was going to exit the console market. The idea that they are going the way of Sega seems ridiculous to me, at least for now. Anyone who wants to ignore my arguments because I am biased has free reign to do so, but most of my arguments are based on reality, even if some are a bit out of left field.

I was only saying that it *appears* Sony is making mistakes that could lead to their downfall, and the future of PS certainly has a bearing on the future of Nintendo.

People jump out of the woodwork in minutes to defend Sony from my posts, but posts arguing against anti-Nintendo FUD are less common. FUD did a lot to hurt the DC, and I won't let the FUD mess with Nintendo. I know should stop mixing personal opinion with serious commentary (specul;ation at least) )about the console industry, I shoot myself in the foot with that I suppose.

I am sorry that I knocked things off topic, but I was simply trying to shoot down anti-Nintendo FUD. If no one starts arguing that Nintendo is exting the console market I won't get irritated and I will happily talk about PC Engine, Saturn, Megadrive, whatever.
I don't bring up PS unless I am trying to counter-argue an earlier post in the thread.
I am not out to get anyone because of what they think about Nintendo's future, but I certainly don't see why I can't debate Nintendo's future. Too many people these days are too quick to assume that Sony is hard to touch, and that Nintendo is falling fast. Neither/either/both may be true. It just said what I thought about it. People were already speculating about the state of the console market in the present and future in this thread, I just presented another point of view on that.

WIth that being said, I am done talking about PS whatever in this thread.

Gamecube won't die until Nintendo wants it to. Systems withn weaker sales have lived reasonably long, and Nintendo systems are supported longer than most.

The Famicom was supported from '83 until 2001 or something like that if I remember correctly.

Next time I will start a new thread. Sorry about the polution caused by my long and largely off topic posts.

[goatdan]

I don't think that Gamecube games are getting rare, some stores just decide what to stcck depending on the winds of the market. That's why I often don't take time to bother with standard sources if I am unsure of availability.

Stores do decide what to stock, but stores like EB Games and GameStop, which carry all games and will buy just about any game that you take in from you (when they were selling Super Mario Brothers / Duck Hunt at GameStop (then FuncoLand) for $0.09, they were still paying people a penny for it. If you brought in 200 GameCube games that were all in decent shape, you'd be able to sell them all. You might not get much for some of them, but they'd take them all.

I wouldn't find it odd if stores like Target and Best Buy were carrying less Cube stuff (although, from what I've seen they aren't), but I find it extremely strange that there aren't used Cube games everywhere, while there are a ton of systems.

Another idea this whole thread has made me think of is that it made more sense for the longest time to buy a new GC than a used one. New ones came with a game and maybe a controller or rebate. The Mario Kart bundle was the system, two controllers and a game. To buy the same stuff used at GameStop, you'd pay $70.00 for the system, $35.00 for the game and $15.00 for the controller. It made sense for people to buy the bundles. Then, when people got their new systems, they bought the used games other people sold.

That seems to make sense to me, but I don't really know. I was curious to see if other places were just as devoid of Cube games...

[dave2236]

Hey dan he's my experience from the green bay market on cube games.

#1 after christmas we had 17 cube games on the shelf. starting from about 90 since dec 1st. the fact was that we were selling twice as many as we were getting in a day.

with cube games people were typically buying 2-4 games at a time, unlike ps2 which is usually 1 or 2 at a time.

I didn't matter which cube game, people were buying anything. 2 games didnt sell and that was crystal chronicles for $19 and NBA street for $7, those were pretty much the oly 2 that didnt sell over christmas

It seems people just keep the cube games and dont sell them much. out of 10 games, 7 will be PS2, 2 will be X-box, and 1 will be a cube game.

....pretty much all used game stores in green bay sold all their cube games at christmas and were the only ones with a decent cube selection right now.


dave

[FurinkanianFrood]

Stores do decide what to stock, but stores like EB Games and GameStop, which carry all games and will buy just about any game that you take in from you (when they were selling Super Mario Brothers / Duck Hunt at GameStop (then FuncoLand) for $0.09, they were still paying people a penny for it. If you brought in 200 GameCube games that were all in decent shape, you'd be able to sell them all. You might not get much for some of them, but they'd take them all.

I wouldn't find it odd if stores like Target and Best Buy were carrying less Cube stuff (although, from what I've seen they aren't), but I find it extremely strange that there aren't used Cube games everywhere, while there are a ton of systems.


EB and Gamestop seem to vary in terms of how well they stock games tremendously from store to store.

The selection of used cube games is actually better than new in some cases, but much worse in others. I think it is decided on an individual store (region?/district?) basis which used games are to be send off to corporate for re-distribution/online sale and which to sell at that store. Depending on management most of the used games traded in at a given store could end up far off. The redistribution system definitely is a major factor in some cases, but I am not sure exactly how the decisions are made. I packaged games to be returned to corporate (or some regional office, it was years ago) at a store I once worked at, but I don't know much about how they were chosen, and nothing about where they went, though the store manager seemed to think that they were dead weight at that particular location.

I often find it very difficult to find copies of games that aren't a beat up display copy at any of the ones closest to where I live, but 30-40 minutes (during non-peak traffic) away there are a couple of stores that usually have most games.

If a game isn't available at the Gamestop, Best Buy, EB, Target, etc. in the town I live in I usually just buy things online. Too many times it seems I run into traffic full of lunatic drivers and get stuck in maze-like parts of Baltimore or DC or something (not that I was ever surprised when that happened).

Some Best Buy stores around here seem to keep haphazard stock of everything, including Gamecube, XBOX, and PS2 games. They never seem to have the game I am looking for at the time I want it, so I generally only go there if there is a specific game that I think they will have (generally very new major releases, and certain other games that seem to fit their general stocking pattern.)

Some Gamestop/EB stores get a limited number of a game and the employees end up buying all of the first shipment. I hear people talking about that sometimes (the employees that is, not that I am trying to put down anyone, I used to work at one of those stores and people did it then too)

[jdc]

There's a really obvious reason for there being a lack of GameCube product.

No business is going to load up on product that won't "turn". People don't want the GameCube, as evidenced by the large number of new and used consoles that you see everywhere. The reason for the lack of used software is simply that people don't own many games when they decide to dump the system. The lack of new software is quite simply due to the fact of not ordering what doesn't sell.

I don't think that the disinterest in the Cube has ANYTHING to do with software content. It's the software FORMAT that is the big issue. People are turned off by those weird little 3" optical discs, myself included. It's the only reason that I can think of as to why I don't touch my Cube. If something is physically smaller...there is a natural tendency towards a perceived lesser value. People will pay $50 for a normal-sized disc......but not the 3". It's perceived as a ripoff.

[PDorr3]

*read no replies*

i went to eb games today and there is a bin w/ used games, alot of ps2, just as much xbox, but wait, no gamecube? nope they only had the used games on the racks...

[hezeuschrist]

Remember the SegaCD? Remember the Saturn? Remember the Dreamcast? Wonder why Gamecube games are harder to find than games for the other systems? Let's just say that Nintendo is the new Sega, on it's way out of the console business. Sure, they may survive on handhelds, but they might as well forget consoles. They're wasting their time now, just like Sega was. Don't believe me? Just wait. None of the Sega fanboys believed it either.

Do you really believe what you just said? Do you have any idea how Nintendo does as a company? In arguably their weakest year EVER, they turned a profit of 110 billion Yen. They're not going ANYWHERE.

Sega died because they were poorly managed and the Dreamcast was doomed to monetary failure before it was even launched. Sure the symptoms seems the same but that whole time Sega was doing it was simply to stay afloat, to turn a buck or two to keep on keepin on. Nintendo turns LOTS of dollars, weather it be from GBA, DS, or the cube, they are still a fantastically profitable company because they are run incredibly well.

Now where they'll be after the anouncement of the revolutions "paradigim shift" in gaming is anyones guess, and most guesses are in the gutter. I simply don't see them being able to pull off this much hype. Either way, they will continue to remain a profitable company through the launch and to the end of the Revolutions life cycle, and they'll likely release another system after that.

[stressboy]

Do you really believe what you just said? Do you have any idea how Nintendo does as a company? In arguably their weakest year EVER, they turned a profit of 110 billion Yen. They're not going ANYWHERE.

Sega died because they were poorly managed and the Dreamcast was doomed to monetary failure before it was even launched. Sure the symptoms seems the same but that whole time Sega was doing it was simply to stay afloat, to turn a buck or two to keep on keepin on. Nintendo turns LOTS of dollars, weather it be from GBA, DS, or the cube, they are still a fantastically profitable company because they are run incredibly well.

Now where they'll be after the anouncement of the revolutions "paradigim shift" in gaming is anyones guess, and most guesses are in the gutter. I simply don't see them being able to pull off this much hype. Either way, they will continue to remain a profitable company through the launch and to the end of the Revolutions life cycle, and they'll likely release another system after that.

Agreed with this post. One thing I notice is that a lot of people that preach the death of Nintendo seem to want it to happen, which baffles me.

[Half Japanese]

I hope Nintendo never goes under. I question some of their decisions, but their first party games have generally always been good (with the exception of the Mario Party games, which still make damn good coasters!) and the GCN controller is mighty damn comfy (even if I can't understand why the placed X and Y where they did).

[drewbrim]

In addition to all the great theories on here what about the fact that there just aren't as many games for the Gamecube as the PS2? It stands to reason that since there haven't been as many new games for the system there won't be as many used games for the system.

Also, most would agree that there is a higher percentage of quality titles for the GC as opposed to the ps2. IE more crap = more trade ins. and most of the nintendo titles don't get traded in when the new one comes out. People won't trade in there copy of zelda, metroid, mario, etc.. to get a couple of bucks off the new one nearly as much as all the kiddies who turned in GTA Vice City so they could save $2.50 on San Andreas.

[goatdan]

Also, most would agree that there is a higher percentage of quality titles for the GC as opposed to the ps2. IE more crap = more trade ins.

Interesting thought...

How many GameCube games have been drastically reduced in price over the Cube's lifetime? I have picked up at least 10 Xbox games for less than $9.99 new in the last year, while I don't think I've seen more than one GameCube title so cheap... Is it because there is less crappy stuff, or just less crappy stuff produced in large quantities?

[drewbrim]

Also, most would agree that there is a higher percentage of quality titles for the GC as opposed to the ps2. IE more crap = more trade ins.

Interesting thought...

How many GameCube games have been drastically reduced in price over the Cube's lifetime? I have picked up at least 10 Xbox games for less than $9.99 new in the last year, while I don't think I've seen more than one GameCube title so cheap... Is it because there is less crappy stuff, or just less crappy stuff produced in large quantities?

Obviously the the answer to the "less crappy stuff" vs. "more of the crappy stuff to sell" is both. I'm sure if you take a game that is on all 3 platforms Nintendo ordered/produced less copies than PS2 and Xbox did. Meaning if that title turns out to be junk then they have less to get rid of, but since they have sold less consoles this would just make sense anyway. Also Nintendo seems to understand that they aren't trying to sell each different game to everyone who has a gamecube. How many games does the average gamer have for his/her system? 10, more/less? I don't know that answer but the point is that Nintendo is trying to sell 10 different games, whatever they may be to each of the 100 people (number reduced for easy math) who have a gamecube. As opposed to trying to sell all 100 people a copy of pikimin 2. Whereas Sony seems to be trying to flood their market with as many titles as possible hoping something will be a hit. I would be suprised if as a general rule that PS2 and Xbox owners just simply had more games than a Gamecube owner. But then again PS2 and Xbox owners are on average older than a GC owner so they can buy their own games and not have to wait for Christmas or birthdays like most younger kids do. Now that I'm contradicting myself and arguing my own points. I'm going to switch to the next question.

Quality vs. Quanity is the next factor in this equation. The PS2 obviously has many more games for it than the GC. So lets pretend that their are 30 (again easy math, personal preference, blah blah) great games for the PS2 but their are only 20 must haves for the GC. But since Sony has released in and around 3 times (%300 more) as many games as Nintendo, all while only producing %50 more good games, and adding that the average person only buys 10 games is a big reason for the bargain bins being full of PS2 stuff.

And lastly I have no idea how many GC games have dropped dramtically in price. The only one I have ever seen "priced to move" was Finding Nemo.

Thanks for listening, just my 2 cents

[philosophyst]

I'd still like to know why the GC cases are the way they are. I know it was asked in the first post of this thread but no one seems to know much about it.

I love my GC....I may be crazy but I'm not sure what I would do without my Animal Crossing. I find it very addictive. I've got 27 games in my collection and everyone is talking about Viewtiful Joe which I have never played. I shoud pick that one up if the chance comes up. :)