Why do so many people hate Mario Sunshine?

[cr0n0]

I had a conversation the other day with a few friends of mine and somehow got to Mario Sunshine. (The mind boggles at what some would speak about in the middle of an Auto Zone store)

Anyhoo, not one of them likes the game. I seem to be the only one. One of them says the stupid water pack (these were his words) "makes the game weird". Another says that that the platforming feel of the series took a backseat to graphics and stupid errand like gameplay. I thought, hey... that's fine, but then I started reading reviews and online forums and most of the stuff I read seemed to back my friends up and suddenly I felt like the only one who likes the game. Why such poor feelings toward this game? In my opinion it is a good game (not great or anything) with solid gameplay. Am I missing something?

[Ernster]

Simple because it was nothing ground breaking at all. In the past Mario games were amazing, Sunshine simply was not, oh and also the fact that all the levels were similar.

[Graham Mitchell]

Most people that I've talked to that didn't think themselves the ultimate gaming connisseur and critic liked Super Mario Sunshine. I thought the game was kind of difficult to play, but I thought the water pack was a good idea to keep that series fresh, and there's a lot of stuff to do in it. I throughly enjoyed it when I had it (especially the haunted hotel!) My only gripe with it was that it was really really really hard at times. And that my roommate stayed home all day and beat it while I was eating dinner after I'd only had it a week. That pissed me off. :/

Nowadays the only people that say "man, that game sucked" to me are Xbox owners.

[Nez]

It was ok, it had its great moments. I liked the parts were you DID NOT have you FLUDD unit and you had to do this hard platform segment. But alas I'm the only one who cared for that.

Other then that the game was only so so.

[Querjek]

I personally thought that the game was genius, although a bt short.

[poloplayr]

Loved some parts of the game but somehow it might as well have been a non-Mario game and that's what bothers me the most. It did not have that Mario feeling, partly because of the tropical setting and partly because that f***ing Fludd Unit. I want a platformer. Nothing more, nothing less.

[jajaja]

Pulling Mario and Zelda games from 2d to 3d was a huge mistake imo.
I hate mario and zelda in 3d :(

[Cantaloup]

There was another thread about this awhile back you might want to check out:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42399

I thought it was kind of a let-down after SM64. You can read some of my complaints about the game in the above thread.

[Mayo]

I had a conversation the other day with a few friends of mine and somehow got to Mario Sunshine. (The mind boggles at what some would speak about in the middle of an Auto Zone store)

Anyhoo, not one of them likes the game. I seem to be the only one. One of them says the stupid water pack (these were his words) "makes the game weird". Another says that that the platforming feel of the series took a backseat to graphics and stupid errand like gameplay. I thought, hey... that's fine, but then I started reading reviews and online forums and most of the stuff I read seemed to back my friends up and suddenly I felt like the only one who likes the game. Why such poor feelings toward this game? In my opinion it is a good game (not great or anything) with solid gameplay. Am I missing something?

Don't listen to anyone else enjoy the game, the game was different, fun and challenging and that's what matters most. Several magazines and reviews did give it high scores which give merit to my statement.

[Super Mario Fan]

It was ok, it had its great moments. I liked the parts were you DID NOT have you FLUDD unit and you had to do this hard platform segment. But alas I'm the only one who cared for that.

Other then that the game was only so so.

You're not the only one. I rig up my Wavebirrd so that I can't use FLUDD in those levels. It's the best part of teh game.

[suznjak]

coin collecting gets old

[T]

I had a hard time getting over the cutsie bright colors
and graphics

Once I got over that, I loved it.

Its one of my all time favorites

[Vectorman0]

I thought the games was pretty decent. I never thought it was spectacular though. The greatest reason for this is the sheer linearity of the game. Unlike the groundbreaking Mario 64, it paled in comparison. It's not possible to live up to such a high standard, and that's probably why it didn't fare so well in the eyes of most people.

[Cmosfm]

I won't say I hate the game, cause I don't, it had a few fun moments...

BUT THAT STUPID WATER PACK!

GOD!

I loved the moments without it, the graphics were great, but cmon....the water pack has to go. I quit right around the time I had to akwardly use the water pack as a rocket or some shit.

[CreamSoda]

I didn't like SMS because...

-Waterpack
-Most missions sucked
-Yoshi and his lack of swimming abilitys
-Levels to similer
-too....many...coins...to collect!!!

I did like...

-Graphics(some of the best I have seen on GC)
-Water Effects
-Level design(some of the later levels are awesome)

Overall I thought it was a huge letdown.

[WanganRunner]

SM64 is my favorite game of all time, I was just playing last night, and I definitely don't think that Sunshine is as much of an accomplishment, but I still really like it.

[djbeatmongrel]

i liked it, nuff said

[le geek]

Here's my two cents... :P

I liked Super Mario Sunshine, but it was a let down after Super Mario 64.

PROS:
- I liked the water pack.
- the town hub was cool (esp. the underground tunnels)
- solid, fun gameplay

CONS:
- I thought the non water pack levels were too removed from the rest of the game.
- the new character designs (the island inhabitants) sucked
- too much coin collection to get all the shine sprites
- the levels were not as varied since they were all island based.

It's a good game, but not great like my favorite "Marios" (SMB, SMW, SM64).

Cheers,
Ben

[Ikari Warrior]

I'd say that the camera that decides to rotate behind a wall during midjump killed it for me. Climbing a big structure, and then falling because of the camera,and then having to do it over and over because wasn't fun at all.

[Crush Crawfish]

I freakin' loved every minute of it. I'll never understand why everyone hates the water pack so much. I thought it kept the game fresh, and kept it from becoming a Mario 64 rehash. I can't wait for the supposed "Mario 128" that's supposed to be coming out for gamecube, even though I have no idea what the hell it's gonna be. :/

[suppafly]

hmm..maybe because the action was GAY?

[badinsults]

I freaking disliked how frustrating it was. Like, there was one level where you had to climb all these girders and fences, then make a leap of faith to get to this cage that had a sprite in it. I spent about an hour on it, and after falling for about the 20th time, I gave up.

[Cmosfm]

hmm..maybe because the action was GAY?

So THAT'S why Mario liked to ride Yoshi so much.

:hmm:

[GobopopRevisited]

I loved Super Mario Sunshine...

Pros-
Everything

Cons-
Yoshi isn't green...

[yoursisterspretty]

I guess when Nintendo makes your wait 6 years for a new Mario adventure and then they give you something like Sunshine, people are going to be upset. I didn't hate Sunshine, but I was hugely disappointed. It just wasn't a true sequel, it was more like a side story. And it was the only Mario I didn't finish at 100%.

[PDorr3]

While I definitly would have liked a traditional mario game (super mario 64...errr....2 anyone?), the water pack was an interesting addition that makes for one original platformer. Sure alot of the levles to me seemed way too ..... not fir for a platforming game, but many of them were genius taking some really interesting ways to use the pack.

It has been awhile since i have played the game but it was memorable.

[spoon]

I don't dislike it, but, it just seems like an update to Mario 64.

Give Mario a Backpack that shots water and better graphics. Mario controls the same, levels are the same, objectives are the same.

I think we had all just become used to the next Mario as being "Great, innovative" Instead of just a good update.(Where most of Nintendo's newer games seem to be headed, but, that is for a different topic!) I enjoy the game, but, not what I was expecting.

[Dimitri]

Easily my favorite parts of Sunshine were when Mario was stripped of his water cannon and thrown into those trippy geometric moving-platform levels where the only goal was to reach the end of the area. The fact that the fastest mode of transportation was continually belly-diving was also a nice plus.

Plus let's not forget that the island was stocked with pineapples, bananas, and durians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durian). :-P

[Berserker]

I've gotten into it with a few folks here about the whole thing before, but basically what I didn't like were those damned platform levels. I just didn't feel like they translated them well to a fully 3d environment. Since the blocks and platforms were essentially floating in midair, it added an unnescessary level of difficulty, I felt.

As I recall, someone simply assumed that I wasn't into it simply because I "must just not be any good at platform-style games", but I've since beaten the game, and with it a majority of the platform levels, and yet I still feel exactly the same way about it.

I did like the FLUDD though, and many of the normal levels of the game. I don't feel that it's quite as bad as I used to think it was, but I don't think it's really an exceptional or stand-out mario title. It's an exceptional game, sure, but as a mario title I feel like it could've used a little more tightening up in places. But again, that's just me.

[mezrabad]

The last Mario game I played was Super Mario Brothers, so I am not burdened with the apparently unsurpressable urge to compare Super Mario Sunshine with other Mario titles. I like it. I haven't finished it yet (because really I should go back and play those other titles first) but I like it a lot. What I like about it most, right now, at least, is watching my son play it. He *loves* it especially when he's in the right mood for it.

[videogameking26]

I didn't hate it...actually I really enjoyed it and it's one of the reasons why I bought my GameCube :)

[Kid Ice]

I thought it was too hard for a Mario game, not too hard in general.

The water pack thing was a dumb idea. It just makes the game tedious.

Not a bad game overall, some parts of it are actually pretty cool. But the bar is way up there for Super Mario. I expected it to be, at the very least, one of the best Gamecube games. It's not.

[TRM]

I did not like Super Mario Sunshine too much at all. I could not get into the game, I found it to be too repetitive at times. And the waterpack thing was just a bit annoying too...not super bad, but not great either.

[Raedon]

"hate" is a strong word. I liked Sunshine and found it to be Mario64 with new tech.

The departure of "Mario! The man who can jump.. and jump!" to "Mario/w Weapon" mixed with the fact that the weapon was hard to use while, say, Rachet and Clank got kick ass weapons just took off the polish.

People had a problem with Sunshine because it should have evolved the 3D Platformer as Mario 64 defined it. Put Sunshine up against Sly Cooper and you see it's just a fanservice game.

[NintendoMan]

It was ok, it had its great moments. I liked the parts were you DID NOT have you FLUDD unit and you had to do this hard platform segment. But alas I'm the only one who cared for that.

Other then that the game was only so so.

See, call me a baby, but I really had a HARD HARD time with those levels where you lose your water pack hense I don't like those levels as much.

[NintendoMan]

People had a problem with Sunshine because it should have evolved the 3D Platformer as Mario 64 defined it. Put Sunshine up against Sly Cooper and you see it's just a fanservice game.

So are you saying that Sly Cooper is a much better game that defines and evilves the 3-d platformer much more than sunshine? (I have never played Sly Cooper)

[imanerd0011]

I personally didn't hate it. I thought it was a pretty good game overall, but I also thought it was the worst SMB games to date. The fact that Nintendo had 6 years between SMB 64 and this game, I expected ALOT more. I didn't like the fact that the whole game looked almost exactly the same (minus the haunted mansion level). Also, I thought the camera was very frusterating in some areas, especially in the part where you are behind the two swinging boats and trying to climb on the nets, and there are those spiders that shock you (I haven't played the game since it was released, so it's been a while). That part was horrible, and many gamers had a very hard time with it.
I really loved SMB 64, so I expected something even greater than that, but Nintendo didn't deliver this time.

[Raedon]

People had a problem with Sunshine because it should have evolved the 3D Platformer as Mario 64 defined it. Put Sunshine up against Sly Cooper and you see it's just a fanservice game.

So are you saying that Sly Cooper is a much better game that defines and evilves the 3-d platformer much more than sunshine? (I have never played Sly Cooper)

The first Sly Cooper is one of the best 3D platformers to date.

[Sosage]

Also, I thought the camera was very frusterating in some areas, especially in the part where you are behind the two swinging boats and trying to climb on the nets, and there are those spiders that shock you (I haven't played the game since it was released, so it's been a while).

The camera absolutely killed this game for me (I am surprised only a handful of people in this thread even brought it up). I spent the majority of my gameplay time adjusting/fighting the camera as opposed to trying to get around the level. I hate to say it, but I'd expect a camera acting this crazy from an upstart or a new design/development team. Not Nintendo and definitely not something from Miyamoto's camp. Otherwise there seems to be a wonderful game with a lot of well thought out elements going on in Sunshine, but I'll be damned if I can actually keep my view steady long enough to appreciate it.

My 2 shines on the subject (ba boom pshhhhhhhhht!)

[NintendoMan]

The camera was NO issue for me. I actually thought it was really good!
Definately too many people expect alot from mario games. I mean just look at how revolutionary some of the games are. So it's definatley hard to live up to previous games and expectations.

I myself LOVE the game. And the ONLY part I don't really like is most of the levels where you lose your jetpack. Some of them are really fun, and others just make me want to kill my GC!! The levels looked awesome to me and were really fun.

[Raedon]

Definately too many people expect alot from mario games. I mean just look at how revolutionary some of the games are. So it's definatley hard to live up to previous games and expectations.


Actually Mario Sunshine was the Mario game that didn't shine. Even SMB 2, though a hack, brought something interesting to the SMB franchise.

Smb3, SMW and mario 64 all were thought of as the best tech but with amazing game design. Each new Mario game raised the bar. Sonic, Bonk, to Earthworm Jim fed off the raised bar from Nintendo. Sunshine and other Gamecube games in house have had a "Jaquar" feel.

It will be near impssible for Nintendo to survive the next console war without a system that can:

1) be modded. Creating a much larger (though shady) install base. This stimulates 3rd party by numbers. Even if the game way purchased used.. At one time that copy was new. Both the Xbox and PS2 are easily altered and the ps2 won the 2000-2006? console wars because the games.. The game makers might make a PSA about piracy but they all went to the PS2 for the install base.
The Xbox, being the easiest to MOD brought it into the world of US GEEK. Emulation being a large reason people here have a modded Xbox.. Emu and that is about it. I can think of less amazing games for the Xbox then the Gamecube.

2) loose money, actually pay, for 3rd party to come back.

3) hire i don't know, somic team, as a full time 1st party production team for Zelda, Mario, Metroid.

4) release a game so vile and fun that it erases it's kiddie image.

[sabre2922]

Mario Sunshine is a good game and I did like it what little i played of it.
It just isnt my "type" of game tooo umm well sunshiney :roll:

[NE146]

Yeah.. I don't "hate" it. I just tried to get into it and it didn't really click with me that's all... and I'm a big time Nintendo fan.

[cr0n0]

The responses pretty much sound exactly like my friends. Is that you guys messing me?? Seriously though, I was just curious as to what others thought. That will not stop me from liking the game nor will it force me to "hate" those who don't agree with my opinions. I found almost all replies very informative. I wonder though, if Nintendo HAD done a Mario closely resembling 64, would gamers be crying out loud because of lack of ingenuity and creativity? I think Nintendo wanted to avoid this and did Sunshine in hopes to expand a bit from Mario 64. Unfortunately, like all gambles, you win some and you lose some. Wonder if Mario 128 will be a TRUE sequel to 64? Maybe then the discussions will stop and all the mario fans will return.

[Ernster]

It is a shame, nearly all of Nintendo's own Gamecube games, have lacked that special something that Nintendo's past games had which made them the best games on the planet.

[hydr0x]

I loved Super Mario Sunshine...

Pros-
Everything

Cons-
Yoshi isn't green...

couldn't agree more, what were they thinking, Yoshi has to be green...

i have to agree the camera was really bad sometimes

[NintendoMan]

Definately too many people expect alot from mario games. I mean just look at how revolutionary some of the games are. So it's definatley hard to live up to previous games and expectations.


Actually Mario Sunshine was the Mario game that didn't shine. Even SMB 2, though a hack, brought something interesting to the SMB franchise.

Oh yeah, I know that Sunshine didn't do the things previous Mario games did. I mean I think that it would be pretty much impossible each time Nintendo releases a MARIO game that it one up it's predecessor. I do know that is what alot of people expect. But it's hard to make a game that really can't get any better, at least I feel.

Sunshine is either my 4th or 5th fav. Mario game. But it's still probably on my all-time fav. 20 list of games. I love the levels in Sunshine, I know most people don't. Yeah, more variety like all ther other games in Mario would've been cool, but that is the feel Nintendo was going for. I still love the freedom and some of the really cool things in Sunshine. I.E. - Those bunge cords are really neat!

[NintendoMan]

I wonder though, if Nintendo HAD done a Mario closely resembling 64, would gamers be crying out loud because of lack of ingenuity and creativity? I think Nintendo wanted to avoid this and did Sunshine in hopes to expand a bit from Mario 64. Unfortunately, like all gambles, you win some and you lose some. Wonder if Mario 128 will be a TRUE sequel to 64? Maybe then the discussions will stop and all the mario fans will return.

I agree with this 100%! I do think people would be complaining of lack of originality if they did that. I would've though. Even if the game turned out to be just a graphical update to Mario64, that would have been fine to me! Mario 64 is almost a perfect game.

[cr0n0]

Forget all this. The rights to the Mario character and all of the Mario universe should be given to Rockstar and name it Mario blasts a cap in yo ass! Just get a couple of guns and run errands for that Toadstool biatch and go matrix on anyone in your way on your quest to kill your now evil brother. This game is so wicked that Luigi went ahead and smoked Bowser all by himself and is now after Mario. Maybe then it will sell. Or give it to Bungie and just do a FPS in the Mario universe, titled...who cares of the name! Just the fact it is done by any of those two companies should guarantee millions of sales.

[GobopopRevisited]

Forget all this. The rights to the Mario character and all of the Mario universe should be given to Rockstar and name it Mario blasts a cap in yo ass! Just get a couple of guns and run errands for that Toadstool biatch and go matrix on anyone in your way on your quest to kill your now evil brother. This game is so wicked that Luigi went ahead and smoked Bowser all by himself and is now after Mario. Maybe then it will sell. Or give it to Bungie and just do a FPS in the Mario universe, titled...who cares of the name! Just the fact it is done by any of those two companies should guarantee millions of sales.

VERY off-topic but...

My Idea for a free-roam open-ended Mario game. The game would be Mario, as the plumber.

Mario and Luigi decide to start a new Plumbing Business. So you go arround and... Plumb! Your biggest customer? Donkey Kong, he always cloggs the shower with his Hair. Your Enemy? Noone really... but there is a new Plumber in town and hes looking to control the local busines. Company goes by the name of Koopa Co. Plumbing... its Bowser! Yeah! Stupid huh? oh well... :P Thats what the big Mario 128 secret is!

[jdc]

I've tried Sunshine on two seperate occasion. I bought it at launch......and was incredibly disappointed with every aspect of it....so I traded it in and lost money on the deal.

I decided to try it again and repurchased both the game and guide. I gave up after giving it a pretty good try.

I dunno....is it just me? I found the game to be excruciatingly difficult, cheap and unfair. I kept asking myself how any of the tons of children that might have received this as a gift would feel. The camera was attrocious....easily one of the worst in recent memory......that is, unless you LIKED playing it in default mode. The graphics were SHIT!!! Why they used that horrible soft-filter is beyond me. I kept getting headaches. I also didn't like the way that you couldn't pick-and-choose your missions within the levels. They should have used the same system that was used in Super Mario 64. Any mission in any order so that you could skip the ones that you didn't like. I couldn't complete the Sandbird mission....so I was out early.

As a user-friendly franchise, Sunshine failed on all counts. In my opinion it was a planned cash grab. Nintendo KNEW that the game would sell huge numbers, but didnt CARE that many purchasers would never be able to play it. I lost a large amount of respect for Nintendo after Sunshine.

[FantasiaWHT]

(Only read the first page)

It boiled down to something really simple for me.

Mario games (the non spinoffs at least) have always been built on a very solid, simple basis of getting to the end of a level and living through it by stomping on enemies. Then there's a few gimmicks that you use OCCASSIONALLY (some more than others) to break up the monotony and add some fun (fireballs, cape spins, tanooli suits, the boot, etc.)

The ENTIRE GAME of Sunshine was set up around a gimmick that probably would've been a lot more bearable if it had showed up as one of those occassional gimmicks that you got to use a handful of times in the game.

I returned it within a week of getting it. (This is when EB still let you return a game once)

[NintendoMan]

Just the fact it is done by any of those two companies should guarantee millions of sales.

It's the systems they make games for (Xbox, PS2) and their gigantic USER BASE that guarantees millions.

[NintendoMan]

As a user-friendly franchise, Sunshine failed on all counts. In my opinion it was a planned cash grab. Nintendo KNEW that the game would sell huge numbers, but didnt CARE that many purchasers would never be able to play it. I lost a large amount of respect for Nintendo after Sunshine.

Well, I would'nt say all that. Nintendo was just trying to put a twist in the Mario franshise and change things up a little.

But you are right, kids HAD to have difficulty with some of the stuff in the game!

[Graham Mitchell]

(Only read the first page)

It boiled down to something really simple for me.

Mario games (the non spinoffs at least) have always been built on a very solid, simple basis of getting to the end of a level and living through it by stomping on enemies. Then there's a few gimmicks that you use OCCASSIONALLY (some more than others) to break up the monotony and add some fun (fireballs, cape spins, tanooli suits, the boot, etc.)

The ENTIRE GAME of Sunshine was set up around a gimmick that probably would've been a lot more bearable if it had showed up as one of those occassional gimmicks that you got to use a handful of times in the game.

I returned it within a week of getting it. (This is when EB still let you return a game once)

I think you're pretty right on, actually. I loved the 8 and 16-bit Mario games because even when they were at their most complicated, they still weren't that complicated--just get to the end of the level one way or another. Sunshine (and Mario 64, for that matter) drove me nuts with all the collection tasks, and the fact that you revisit the same level 800 times. It's just too much, and the game ends up being more like Zelda or something than any of the earlier mario games.

[Cirrus]

Personally, I wasn't all that thrilled with the water pack, but I'd rather have "Water Pack Mario" than "No Mario." The game had brilliant colors, music, and gameplay.

And somehow... cleaning things was a blast.

If only they left "Shine Get!" in the game.

[YoshiM]

It was a big disappointment. Instead of raising the bar, the ol' plumber was found stretching for it. Usually each Mario game, while being very similar to its predecessors, does something that makes everything fresh. Sunshine, on the other hand, was pretty much a rip of Banjo Kazooie's mechanics: Mario (Banjo) having to collect Shines (jiggies) which many are only accessable by using the water pack (Kazooie) that shoots a water projectile (eggs), allows you to hover (Kazooie flapping her wings) or fly up into the air (red feathers that make Kazooie fly).

The only thing that was meant to bring something fresh to the table was adding in the chore of cleaning to defeat enemies and solve puzzles. Um, sorry but for me I do enough cleaning in real life. To me it was a mini game that was stretched into a full title. Not my cup of tea.

[yoursisterspretty]

OK I forgot to add what what I think is the biggest travesty in Sunshine (3 letters):

F-M-V. What the F*ck.

Too me that just screamed rush job. Like I said earlier I don't hate the game, I just have some serious issues with it. I guess I expect perfection with my Mario.

[suznjak]

cion collecting is old.butt smashing is outdated,the bowser kidnaps the princess story is yesrterday's news(learn kung fu b!@tch).time for something new in the mario world. -_-