Bundled systems, the future of game system launches?

[Anthony1]

Back in the good ole days, when it was time for a new system to come out, you only had to worry about buying the actual system itself, and one game that you would get along with it.

Those days appear to be over.


With companies like Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo spending so much money on the development of their new systems, the concept of "forced bundling" appears as though it is going to become the norm and not the exception.

No longer will we be able to walk into a retailer at launch and just be able to buy the system all by itself, ala carte. I believe that those days are history. At least from a perspective of the system first lauching, and that initial lauch period.

Look at the PSP. This is the first system that is going to take this approach to the extreme. Microsoft did this to some degree with the XBOX, and all the bundled deals that you had to sign up for to get a XBOX at it's launch, but it was still possible to get a XBOX system all by itself, at some retail locations. Although more by accident than anything.

But now we enter the realm of "THE BUNDLE".


Force bundling is a great way for a company like Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo to offset some of the losses that come with selling systems below cost. By forcing some 1st party games or demos or whatever, along with say a extra controller or memory card, is a good way to guarantee that they will be able diminish some of the pain of selling a system $100 below what it costs to produce it.

It's also a good deal for the retailers, because it's the only way that they can make any money off selling the actual system during a launch.


Plus with all the rental plans that are available nowadays, the Gamer's Pass from Blockbuster, GameFly, etc, etc, it's perfectly concievable that somebody could shell out the necessary money to just get the system, and then not actually purchase any games at all right away, but just try to rent them by paying a monthly subscription type fee. But with the "forced bundle" system, it forces the customer to actually pay for the software and accessory side of the equation, the one with actual margins.


What is your take on this new era of "forced bundling"?

Will you simply deal with this new reality? Or will you rebel against it, and wait until you can by the system ala carte?

[squirrelnut]

When I first got my NES it came "forced bundled" with SMB/Duck Hunt, 2 controlers and a zapper. I was so happy that I didn't need to buy anything else at the time of purchase.

[Untamed]

Well with the forced game bundle, in some situations it's good.

I don't normally do this, but from this point forward I no longer care about proper grammar.

1. some people save up to get a system at launch or whenever and they have a general idea how much it is, then a little extra for tax. someone may not factor the price of a game in, or not all games may be priced the same (again, this is all inclusive, not just system launch). i

the nintendo gamecube (LE platinum) was recently priced at 99$ cdn and it included an extra controller, memory card (3rd party, from the store i'm thinking), and metriod prime or mariokart doubledash. that gives a clear price point to save up to, and it's especially good if you buy it and enjoy the game. then you don't immediatly have to go out and buy a 20=50$ game to play.

(damn, i would've gotten if i could've afforded it. great deal)

but, the option to buy alone should still remain i suppose. i like extra trinkets though that are "free" (again, clearerr to save for.)

2. this doesn't apply to the mothly fee ones (i don't think we have many up here anyways), but with bundled software, you have something to kill time in between rentals. :)

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actually, with the first one, the bundled deals i've seen recently may have been all from the store, not just the 3rd party stuff. eh, oh well. i still think a lot of the same for system launches. AND again, clearer goal to save to.

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anyways, comments on my comments?

and i guess i lied. my grammar was still pretty good, even punctuation. did that subconciously though. payed less attention to it and gave up on caps. :P


EDIT: go figure, edited it anyways. lol

[GobopopRevisited]

SNES 5 in 1!!!!!!!!

Super Mario Brothers!!!
Super Mario Brothers 2!!!
Super Mario Brothers 3!!!
The Lost levels!!!
Super Mario World!!!

Like getting 5 games in 1 BOX!!!!!!!!!! ...yeah, when I got my SNES I was happy. on top of that the man I call my father packaged in a nice little brand spankin' new hot game o' the season Donkey Kong Country!!!!!!

Nintendo still does a little, they offered Mario Kart twice. Super Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Zelda CE... Metroid.

[squirrelnut]

Untamed made me think of another point. They are including the stuff you would need to buy anyways. Plus since it's a bundle, you can get it for cheaper then anyways if you bought everything seperatly.

[Querjek]

Bundles are bad for companies--just look at the ratio of DS systems to games sold.

[Wavelflack]

"They are including the stuff you would need to buy anyways."

Headphones? Remote control? A dust cloth?

[crazyjackcsa]

I think you have it backwards there Anthony 1, you seem to be saying that a system by itself is the better deal. Bundled systems have always been around, they aren't the future by any means, and they only recently fell by the wayside as launches. I remember how upset people were that the PSX was sold without a game. Bundling I think works just as much in the consumers favour as the manufacturer. You get a system and game for less than what a game seperatly would cost. The upside for the manufacturer is that they can push more sales with this incentive, the down side is that they are giving the game away for less than it's full value. And systems will always be available ala cart as well, for people like you and people buying replacement systems.

[Anthony1]

Alot of the bundles that you guys are talking about, aren't forced bundles during the launch of the system.

You guys are talking about promotional packages well after a system has already launched and made it's way in the marketplace.

I'm talking about forced bundles when a system is first made available to the public.



On the subject of "forced bundles" at launch, I don't particularly like them. Alot of times the stuff that is thrown in, is stuff that I'm not interested in. I would prefer to be able to choose everything ala carte, to get the specific stuff that I want.

Take the PS2 for example. I don't want the Sony 8MB memory card. I would rather get a 32MB 3rd party memory card seperately.

And alot of times the games that are included in the bundle might be one game that you are actually interested in, along with another one that you have no interest in at all.

Sure the combined price might be better than buying everything seperately, but I would rather pick and choose the exact accessories and games that I want.

Not to mention the fact that I'm a bargain hunter, and I never pay full retail anyways.

[gepeto]

I am sorry but I get passionate about this subject. Bundles are crap forced down your throat by retailers. When ps2 launched bundles were being forced down our throats. I will never forget a Eb store trying to force me to buy 3 games and a memory card one of the games was Fantavision
and if you didn't buy the bundle you could not get a ps2. The xbox scene was he same. Bottom line is games and systems are expensive. Retailers should not force you to almost spend 2 times the cost of the system. I will never buy a forced bundle if I have to I will sit out no problems the game companies make out anyway when they sell there products. Manufacture bundles EX Psp I do not mind.
I will support innovation. I personally think they are bundling the psp to offset the production shortage and slow down the demand due to a heavier price. I also believe that any store that will not sell you a item that a manufacturer sent at Msrp EX xbox 299.99 not xbox plus 3 games and 1 memory card should be boycotted. My thoughts. GEPETO

[PDorr3]

Bundles are fine if you can still buy the system without all the extra goodies that comes with it. In the case of the PSP I am no longer going to buy one. $250 is too much for stuff I otherwise would not have bought, and you STILL need a memory stick and one game....way too much.

[SoulBlazer]

You WANT a 3rd party memory card?

ARE YOU ON DRUGS???????

I take it you've never used one and I'll give you the benift of the doubt. @_@

[Querjek]

"They are including the stuff you would need to buy anyways."

Headphones? Remote control? A dust cloth?
Ok, so maybe not a remote control, but I personally do want the things that come with the PSP, including the dust cloth.

[Dimitri]

Bundles...the only systems I've bought at launch were the N64 and the Gamecube -- neither had forced bundling, and I bought games, controllers, memcards etc. anyway. "Forced bundling" makes me think of that deal Sega had with the Saturn where you could get three free games.

That said, I can understand peoples' anger if these bundles bring the price up significantly and come with useless stuff you don't really want. I mean, nobody really needs a remote for a handheld, or another pair of headphones or what have you. -1 if it comes with an absolutely terrible game to boot.


You WANT a 3rd party memory card?

ARE YOU ON DRUGS???????

I take it you've never used one and I'll give you the benift of the doubt. @_@

I've used a $5 pair of Nuby cards with my Playstation for years. No troubles at all apart from one not working with my PS2.

OTOH, I had some Interact N64 cards that had their batteries die, and my friend had a 4X card that spontaneously transformed itself into a rumble pak. :hmm:

[vincewy]

Some of the measures are done to deter people reselling systems on eBay, I doubt you'll see people bidding this thing like crazy at launch on eBay, if people do, good for boosting economic activities at least.

Some retailers also become very frustrated with people only buying systems and nothing else, even during the 04 holiday season, my buddy's sotres were asking people to buy at least 1-2 games with the system, I don't think it's unfair, retailers don't make a dime on system, it seems like Sony will be doing the same on their own this time.

I'd not besurpirsed that when PS2 and Xbox are launched, you'll have to buy at least a few games with the system, fine by me.

[soniko_karuto]

the problem with these bundles is that they are bundled, not free, or at least at a better price. If the psp was 200, i'd say, 15 movie, 30 memcard, hey, kinda ok, but 250? they are selling even the cloth!!

[sabre2922]

I like most sytem bundles. my two faves that ive actually bought are the Sega Saturn with 3 free games including dayeeetona!!! and my fav ever is my Metroid prime GC bundle X_x great box cover a platinum Gamecube with Prime and echoes demos disk with artwork and Metroid timeline as extras worth everypenny in my opinion ;)

[goatdan]

OTOH, I had some Interact N64 cards that had their batteries die, and my friend had a 4X card that spontaneously transformed itself into a rumble pak. :hmm:

That was one of the funniest things I've read all day...

What counts as a bundle pack? If a DS counts as a bundle pack because it includes a demo of a game as well as the charger you need to play it with, yeah... things will be bundled.

If you look at a bundle as anything beyond the system itself with what you need to play it, I think most systems have been released this way and went to non-bundle later. You were forced to get Mario Bros / Duck Hunt with a NES for a while (or Mario Bros / Duck Hunt and ROB).

The Jaguar forced you to get Cybermorph.

It was only relatively recently that consoles didn't come with games, and then they are added in later.

I think that we could see a reintroduction of the pack-in game with the next gen of consoles. Even though the argument is that consumers don't look at the pack-in game as a huge value (if they were going to buy it, they would've... if not, they would've "saved" the money) they are relatively cheap to include. But companies don't put what we want to see in the bundles anymore. You might get a demo disc or something relatively meaningless (Spider-Man 2 for the PSP, for instance isn't "the thing" that people are going to buy a PSP for... In comparison, people would buy a Xbox 2 if it included Halo 3 just for Halo 3...)

Personally, I wait for the bundles to get my systems now. I bought my Xbox because it came bundled with Halo and wasn't black (sorry, I think those are ugly!). I got a GameCube for Christmas (per my suggestion ;) ) because they were on sale for $99.99 at Target with the Mario Kart: DD bundle with an additional controller and memory card for free. That's what entices me to get a system now. If I don't have a game to buy it for, I won't get it... and if they put that game right there in the box I'll almost definitely snag it very quickly :D

[Cryomancer]

I actually DID get a DS bundle, it came with a normal boxed DS, a copy of mario 64 DS, and a copy of pacman world for GBA. They got them at Sam's, I assume it was a deal they had.

[Anthony1]

I like most sytem bundles. my two faves that ive actually bought are the Sega Saturn with 3 free games including dayeeetona!!! and my fav ever is my Metroid prime GC bundle X_x great box cover a platinum Gamecube with Prime and echoes demos disk with artwork and Metroid timeline as extras worth everypenny in my opinion ;)


Again, I'm talking about "forced bundles" at launch.


Sure, bundles after lauch are great. Usually, you get a extra controller and a hit game thrown in bascially for free. What not to love? Hell, I would love the Mario Kart DD bundle with the extra controller. That's a great bundle. The XBOX has had some good bundles with like 2 or 3 games thrown in for the same freaking price.

Sure, who has a problem with getting extra things thrown in for the exact same cost.

But that isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about not at all having the option to just buy a console by itself, during the initial lauch of the system.

[EnemyZero]

i used to love bundles, the last bundled system i had was a genny, but my nes before that was bundled....i remember saturn had an optional bundle, alone for 299 or with virtua cop for 350 ...i liked bundles

[Xantan the Foul]

I don't like bundles because the game they come with usually sucks.

I tried to get an Xbox at Ebgames.com but almost every one they sold came bundled with Halo or Halo 2 :angry:

Eventually I just went to the actual store to buy just the console (as I already had games I wanted coming in the mail)

[WanganRunner]

What really kills me are the EBGames and Gamestop bundles.

I mean, it's bad enough that we have to pay an extra $50 to get a bunch of crap we dont' want with our PSPs.

Then Gamestop and EB go and bundle in like 3 mandatory games, 2 of which suck, plus a bunch of other nonsense, for like $500 or $700. Screw that, if I had $700, I wouldn't spend it on a PSP, that's car parts right there, lol.

The only hope is places that don't take preorders. I don't like preorders, because it dilutes the basic formula of:

"He who is most hardcore shall get his system at launch".

I got a PS2 at launch, no bundle, by waiting overnight at a Best Buy in the cold, we were interviewed by the local news, and it was hella fun.

[mikeetler]

Again, I'm talking about "forced bundles" at launch.

The reason you're not getting the replies you're looking for is you have your definitions mixed. A "forced bundle" would be where a game is packed in the box by the manufacturer and the system can not be purchased any other way. What you're descibing is retailer packages, where the retailer will only sell the system with additional items. That is done by the retailer and is only caused by the manufacturer to the extent that they will "request" (defined here a "require" a certain number of games to be ordered with each system. Retailers will also opten attach high margin 3rd party accessories to make the package more attractive. The key here is that every retailer can do what they want, and national non-specialty (Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Toys R Us) almost always sell the systems as received from the manufacturer.

As for how I feel about them, I have always thought they were crap and would never consider buying a system at a store that is forcing attachments and never forced attachments when I had my retail stores. Of course the only system that's come out since I got out of store front retail is the DS, which I had no problem obtaining from stores without buying a package.

-Mike

[The Manimal]

When I first got my NES it came "forced bundled" with SMB/Duck Hunt, 2 controlers and a zapper. I was so happy that I didn't need to buy anything else at the time of purchase.

Agree with you.

[FantasiaWHT]

What really kills me are the EBGames and Gamestop bundles.

I mean, it's bad enough that we have to pay an extra $50 to get a bunch of crap we dont' want with our PSPs.

Then Gamestop and EB go and bundle in like 3 mandatory games, 2 of which suck, plus a bunch of other nonsense, for like $500 or $700. Screw that, if I had $700, I wouldn't spend it on a PSP, that's car parts right there, lol.


Get your facts straight

1) That's an optional bundle. You can buy it from any EB (can't speak for Gamestop) for the $250 price
2) You get to pick the games, they aren't forced on you.

Speaking as a retailer... Honestly, if people are willing to pay WELL over retail for just a system on Ebay (DSs and PSTwo's selling for $200-$250 for example) why the HELL should a retailer let a customer walk out of their store with their last system at retail price without buying a single other thing? Forget it, if you don't want to pay the extra for things you can actually use, I can find somebody who can.

Also, you have NO idea how often we get somebody who comes in and thinks $150 for their PS2 will actually get them up and playing. No, you need a memory card "Well why doesn't it come with one?" No, you need an extra controller to play two players "Well why doesn't it come with one?" No, you need to buy a game for it "Well why doesn't it come with one?" We get these questions constantly.

Speaking as a customer... bundles are only good when two conditions are met.

A) You aren't charged full retail price for each part
B) Most of the stuff in the bundle is useful to me. That includes either having a decent game bundled or being able to choose games.

By these defintions the PSP bundle is a good one. Case = useful. Headphones = mostly useful. Cloth = somewhat useful. Memory card = essential. Demo/trailer disc = nice bonus. Free movie = awesome. And all that stuff together would be more than $50.

Besides, if you don't want a game that comes with a bundle... leave it sealed and return it to Walmart for full retail value in in-store credit :P

[Lothars]

Get your facts straight

1) That's an optional bundle. You can buy it from any EB (can't speak for Gamestop) for the $250 price
2) You get to pick the games, they aren't forced on you.

Speaking as a retailer... Honestly, if people are willing to pay WELL over retail for just a system on Ebay (DSs and PSTwo's selling for $200-$250 for example) why the HELL should a retailer let a customer walk out of their store with their last system at retail price without buying a single other thing? Forget it, if you don't want to pay the extra for things you can actually use, I can find somebody who can.

Also, you have NO idea how often we get somebody who comes in and thinks $150 for their PS2 will actually get them up and playing. No, you need a memory card "Well why doesn't it come with one?" No, you need an extra controller to play two players "Well why doesn't it come with one?" No, you need to buy a game for it "Well why doesn't it come with one?" We get these questions constantly.

Speaking as a customer... bundles are only good when two conditions are met.

A) You aren't charged full retail price for each part
B) Most of the stuff in the bundle is useful to me. That includes either having a decent game bundled or being able to choose games.

By these defintions the PSP bundle is a good one. Case = useful. Headphones = mostly useful. Cloth = somewhat useful. Memory card = essential. Demo/trailer disc = nice bonus. Free movie = awesome. And all that stuff together would be more than $50.

Besides, if you don't want a game that comes with a bundle... leave it sealed and return it to Walmart for full retail value in in-store credit :P


I agree fully with what you say because I would be willing to buy a bundle especially if everything in it is useful or comes with a game I want for cheaper than buying the game seperatly I think it depends on the situation and the bundle.