Does using an in-game code count for completing a game?

[tony_good]

I know using a Game Genie does not, but what do you think?

[Half Japanese]

Not 100% sure what you mean by this, so I'll cover the two bases it could mean (to me):

- If you mean "cheat code" a la the famous Konami code, then yes, I would consider that cheating and not truly beating the game.

- If you mean "password" a la the early Mega Man games, then I don't consider that cheating, but 100% legit.

To me, beating a game is doing so without entering cheat codes. Certain glitches, however, are grey areas, although I generally think those fall under being legit as well, sine the programming code in question was left intact.

[Emily]

I would say no. Cheating is cheating.

[Nesmaster]

Not 100% sure what you mean by this, so I'll cover the two bases it could mean (to me):

- If you mean "cheat code" a la the famous Konami code, then yes, I would consider that cheating and not truly beating the game.

- If you mean "password" a la the early Mega Man games, then I don't consider that cheating, but 100% legit.

To me, beating a game is doing so without entering cheat codes. Certain glitches, however, are grey areas, although I generally think those fall under being legit as well, sine the programming code in question was left intact.

hit the nail on the head. i feel the same way. you earn the passwords. you do not earn cheats (well you can, but usually only after beating the game :P)

[Cauterize]

Not 100% sure what you mean by this, so I'll cover the two bases it could mean (to me):

- If you mean "cheat code" a la the famous Konami code, then yes, I would consider that cheating and not truly beating the game.

- If you mean "password" a la the early Mega Man games, then I don't consider that cheating, but 100% legit.

To me, beating a game is doing so without entering cheat codes. Certain glitches, however, are grey areas, although I generally think those fall under being legit as well, sine the programming code in question was left intact.

hit the nail on the head. i feel the same way. you earn the passwords. you do not earn cheats (well you can, but usually only after beating the game :P)

For Example, the lovely Paintball Mode on Goldeneye!

[GarrettCRW]

Ah, but not all cheats are the same-the Konami Code (esp. in Contra, Gradius II, and Life Force) is far less of a cheat than, say, the debug menu cheat for Super Star Wars (which totally warps the rules of the road, IIRC).

[tony_good]

To explain what I meant, yes, like the Konami code.

To me, that's cheating, 30 lives is ridiculous.

The gray area is the Battletoads code for 5 lives and the short level warps in that game.

I did complete Battletoads by using those codes, and now I'm wondering if that counts as legitimately beating the game?

I agree that passwords are completely legit, provided you earned them yourself.

[Nez]

I wouldn't consider the level warps cheating its just a way to get to where you were faster. I mean if there was continues in the game it woul be cheating but come on, the games just not fair.

[bargora]

My question is what do you mean by "count"? I mean, it's not like the Official Game Completion Advisory Board is going to review your results.

But if you're planning to brag to your buddies that you beat Gradius III (while using a code), you might want to also mention that you're a cheatin' bastard. ;)

[tony_good]

The jury has reached a verdict.

Using a code to give one extra lives at the beginning does, in fact, NOT count as legitimately beating a game.

Now I must defeat Battletoads without the luxury of a 5-live code to start.

As soon as I complete Oddworld Stranger's Wrath and get 100% on GTA San Andreas (I'm at 97.86%), that is next in line...

Christ, it's going to be tough. Battletoads will be so much more difficult than either of those games.

My fault for asking. I've just screwed myself, but it will be a labor of love.

[vulcanjedi]

Greetings

My 2 cents.

There are some games that are so hard that some people would never get past a certain point without using a code. Like in 88 I bought Rocky for the SMS and repeatedly got crushed by Drago. I thought with more practice I could get good enough. So I refused to turn auto-fire on trying to be a purist. 14 years later I got over it and threw it in the PBC with an auto stick and twenty minutes later I finally got to see the ending of Rocky. Now I wouldn't count that as one of my beaten SMS games but I am glad I finally got to see that crappy ending :)

Wait, thats only about 1 cent worth..

VJ

[bargora]

vulcanjedi brings up a related issue--auto-fire. In a boxing game, I would concur that it's not legitimate. In a shmup, though, especially if you don't have an arcade style controller, I think auto-fire is OK. Your thumb just can't press the button 10,000 times to get you through Gradius. At least, mine couldn't. Old thumbs!

[rbudrick]

I think this depends on whether you discovered the code yourself.

Long before the Konami code was popular (it was only in Contra, that I knew of at the time), I randomly tried it on Lifeforce before it was known to cater to the cheat. I almost shit myself when it worked, as did my family...they thought I was a genius (and they were right LOL ). In that particular case, I think I did indeed "earn" it. However, I still can only make it to level5 or so without the cheat.

In Ikari Warriors 1 and 2 for NES, it is absolutely 100% impossible to beat the game without the A, B, B, A revival trick. The game is still retty damn long and difficult even with the cheat. I think that cheat was meant to be used to make it more like the arcade where you can continue...so I consider that cheat completely legit.

Other than those situations, I believe aything else is cheating, and not legit.

-Rob

[Dr. Morbis]

vulcanjedi brings up a related issue--auto-fire. In a boxing game, I would concur that it's not legitimate. In a shmup, though, especially if you don't have an arcade style controller, I think auto-fire is OK. Your thumb just can't press the button 10,000 times to get you through Gradius. At least, mine couldn't. Old thumbs!
I disagree. I think using auto-fire on any system where it doesn't come standard (ie: NES) is 'cheating'. Auto-fire is NOT cheating if a system's standard/pack-in controller has it as a feature (ie: Turbografx 16).

As someone who pounded on those little red buttons tens of thousands of times to get through Gradius, Guardian Legend, Zanac, etc, that's the way I see it.

[suznjak]

who cares woop ass and call names :D

[GarrettCRW]

To explain what I meant, yes, like the Konami code.

To me, that's cheating, 30 lives is ridiculous.

It's taken me damn near 15 years to get to the point where I could possibly beat Contra in 30 lives without continuing. Trust me, it's that insane. And Gradius II has the trademark Gradius starting points (so if you lose a life, you're screwed). 30 lives isn't cheating-it's being fair!

I can't believe we're using this to challenge the validity of someone's beating of a game, especially with the continue/extra lives codes, which tend to even the odds with games that have punishing difficulties. SMB 2J, anyone?

[Dangerboy]

Question:
What's the difference between doing the 1-Up Trick in Mario with the turtle shell / staircase trick and the Contra 30 Man code?

Answer:
Nothing. They both give you more lives.

I'm one of those people that play games to, you know, play them. I don't give two turds about how those means are reached. If I really wanted to stroke my own ego and sit here for hours on end to beat one game without any sort of 'help', then yeah I'll try and do it legit. But I'm only on this planet for a set amount of time and there are a LOT of games I want to play. If they don't fall into my 'personal legit favorites', they get 'enhanced'.

To tell you the truth, the Action Replay and GameShark are the only things that granted some games permission to even be played. Infinite Health helped me enjoy shitty games like Charge N' Blast, Extermination, etc.

And Contra: Shattered Soldier? Infinite EVERYTHING.

Did I use them on Burnout 3? No.
Did I use them on Transformers? No.

Basically, if it helps make the game fun, you better bet I'll use that cheat device (or "game enhancer", as we'd say in my GS days...).

Just play a game, enjoy it anyway you can regardless of what it takes.

Jason

[retroman]

yes u finished it...but u know u cheated....know what i mean.

[tony_good]

It's taken me damn near 15 years to get to the point where I could possibly beat Contra in 30 lives without continuing. Trust me, it's that insane.

My friend Dave showed me one of the most incredible things I have seen in my life. I would not have believed him had I not seen it for myself. Not only did he beat Contra without the 30 lives code, he did it without continuing.
If memory serves, he only died ONCE!!!

[-hellvin-]

Hell yeah it does! I used that unlimited ammo code in resident evil 2 for the dreamcast and I will guaruntee the game was completed with many zombies dying horribly.

[njiska]

Using in-game cheats like the konami code is cheating and does not count towards beating the game.

It's because of this that i once spend 17 hours straight playing Contra until i could beat it using the stock lives. (I still get flash backs to the horror of it all, by the end i think i had most of the enemy patterns memorized)

In order to complete a game you must do it in the purest possible form. Using cheats alters the experience. In essence you are not beating the game, but rather you are beating an altered version (even if it's an in-game code not a hack or Game genie code). Completion is only attained in the games normal state.

The same rule applies to using save-states in an emulator. However using level passwords is not cheating. The only password codes you would get in old games were not cheats, but rather a primitive check-point system for games without battery backup. Using a password in Mega Man is no more cheating then loading a save in Zelda.

That's just my opinion, but i think most of you will agree. It all comes down to honor. Beating a game while cheating is kind of like rigging a boxing match, you win, but it was never really a competetions to start with.

[Garry Silljo]

What's up with everyone talking about how hard Contra is? Back when I first got my nes, I played the game like crazy. Even wehn I first started and was using the code, I never went through all 30 and after a week or two of straight playing and honing my skills, I could beat the game without dying, ..., at all.If anything I appreciate hard games though and usually pick the hard mode on any game the first couple times I play it. Yes I don't get very far, but by training and learning on hard mode, I can later switch to normal mode and beat the game like it's nothing. Later I go back to hard and truly master it. Also, now that I am older and wiser, I have banned the use of cheat codes for myself. I get no satisfaction from cheating. I do look them up and put them in for my wife though. She likes playing games, but is terrible at them and gets frustrated fast. The cheats make her happy, which is good.

Final summation: Do what you like.

[rbudrick]

Eventually I was able to beat Contra and Super C on one life...it's just memorization, really.

I always wished that Rush N attack had a 30 life code....I never could get to stage 4, 3 only twice. That is, until, I created my own 30 lives code for it.

Start a 2 player game and have the players stand back to back. Get a C-clamp and put it over the turbo button for each player's attck button. COme back in two days and your guys will have 30 lives (I think it's the max in this game too....memory is fuzzy). Basically, your score gets so high you gain lives.

After I did this and played the game throguh and through, after just 5 on and off days of playing with my nearly endless supply of lives, I said, "Screw this!" I turned it off, restarted it and with just 5 lives I beat the hell out of that game, several times.....I couldnt die! And just 5 days prior I thought the game was impossible! For probably eight years I couldn't even get to stage 4, and in five days tme my own cheat showed me how to really play the game because it let me practice.

This same cheat works on a few levels In Contra III: the Alien Wars for SNES and was the only way in the whole damn world I could have beat it on Hard mode.

However, this begs the question: Are exploits like this cheats? I mean, I didn't use a cheat device or any code the programmers put in or intended. I didn't break any rules of the game. Personally, I thought myself so clever for this, I never really considered it actually cheating. LOL There's several game out there where exploits like this work.

-Rob

[calthaer]

You must use your own skillz - not those loaned to you by a cheat code - to beat a game if you want to consider it "beaten." With most video games, it's like a chess game where your opponent has all pawns (with maybe a few knights or bishops as end guys) and you have a queen. If you cheat and give yourself two queens or other extra pieces on the board (or if you jump to the last level and eliminate all but a few of the pawns) then it's not exactly the same, is it?

HOWEVER - Sure, you can "finish" a game that way. If all you want is to see the end credits, then go for it. I see that as a legitimate way to play the game - after all, they just sell you the chess board and the pieces...they don't make you play the game any certain way.

But don't come bragging here about your skillz if that's what you do :)

[bargora]

To explain what I meant, yes, like the Konami code.

To me, that's cheating, 30 lives is ridiculous.

It's taken me damn near 15 years to get to the point where I could possibly beat Contra in 30 lives without continuing. Trust me, it's that insane. And Gradius II has the trademark Gradius starting points (so if you lose a life, you're screwed). 30 lives isn't cheating-it's being fair!

I can't believe we're using this to challenge the validity of someone's beating of a game, especially with the continue/extra lives codes, which tend to even the odds with games that have punishing difficulties. SMB 2J, anyone?
You know that your best chance to beat a Gradius game is in one life. They just give you the other two because it's videogame tradition.

And there are people who beat these games without resorting to cheat codes. Just because you (I'm assuming) or I (I'm saying) are not them (yet, anyway) doesn't mean that the game designers actually meant for everybody to use the cheat codes. Beating those quarter-muncher style games within the three-lives given is, to quote W., "hard work".

Or, from another perspective --

I can't believe we're using this to challenge the validity of someone's playing a piano concerto, especially with the player piano rolls, which tend to even the odds with pieces that have punishing difficulties. The Rachmaninof, anyone?

[Dr. Morbis]

Eventually I was able to beat Contra and Super C on one life...it's just memorization, really.

I always wished that Rush N attack had a 30 life code....I never could get to stage 4, 3 only twice. That is, until, I created my own 30 lives code for it.

Start a 2 player game and have the players stand back to back. Get a C-clamp and put it over the turbo button for each player's attck button. COme back in two days and your guys will have 30 lives (I think it's the max in this game too....memory is fuzzy). Basically, your score gets so high you gain lives.

After I did this and played the game throguh and through, after just 5 on and off days of playing with my nearly endless supply of lives, I said, "Screw this!" I turned it off, restarted it and with just 5 lives I beat the hell out of that game, several times.....I couldnt die! And just 5 days prior I thought the game was impossible! For probably eight years I couldn't even get to stage 4, and in five days tme my own cheat showed me how to really play the game because it let me practice.
-Rob
Rbudrick you have opened my eyes. I too can easily beat Contra and Super C in one life but I have always considered Rush 'N Attack to be absolutely impossible to beat legitimately. I'm going to do exactly what you just described in order to practice the later levels, then I'm going to do a legit run of "the impossible game".

Thanks for the insights.

[rbudrick]

Right on, Dr. Morbis! Glad to help. Keep me posted on how it went!

-Rob

[Xantan the Foul]

Question:
What's the difference between doing the 1-Up Trick in Mario with the turtle shell / staircase trick and the Contra 30 Man code?

Answer:
Nothing. They both give you more lives.


Well... the turtle shell is in the game, and it exploits the way the level, and enemies are set up.

It's just like fighting Red Cores in Lufia, you'll get really powerful if you hang around and kill alot of them(just like hitting that turtle till it starts giving up lives). It's not cheating, but if there was a code to just make you that powerful in Lufia, it would be cheating.

A little cheap maybe, but not cheating.