I can't believe they are going to actually do it....

[InsaneDavid]

It is way to early for a new console, for me. But I've never bought any system at launch so that is keeping to my own. I've heard about the Xbox2 units being tiered. $300 gets you a basic model and $500 gets you all pimped out with a larger HD, and more goodies (of which I'd have no idea what they would be).

No matter what Microshaft may think or their focus groups may say, that's still a bad way to release consoles. "Put it ALL in your base model or don't do it at all." :D Sony realized this with online play which is why it was revised into the base console with the PSTwo.

32X and Sega CD were pains in the ass to sell, which is why the JVC X'Eye and CD-X are so prized. The TurboGrafx-16 CD expansion with system card versions was confusing for casual gamers, so it was shoved all into one unit - the TurboDuo. The hardcore gaming market is what sells consoles at launch but what moves them throughout a console life span is kids pulling the "I want a... for Christmas / birthday / etc." I was still heavily in the retail part of the business during the lauch of the DC, PS2, GC, and XBox - and when the GC and XBox were released days apart it created massive confusion among people buying consoles as gifts. I had three seperate people wait in line for five hours on the day of the XBox launch, only to find out what they meant to get was a GameCube. And again the same thing on the night of the GameCube launch - but they wanted PS2's...

Even a seemingly simple choice like that is overwhelming to most casual gamers and the last thing you want someone to do is buy Model-A for so much money only to later on realize to do what they wanted they should have bought Model-B.


Compare the PS2 launch titles to the XBOX launch titles. The time issue is what killed the PS2.

...I'd say they both had crappy launch lineups. Two good games does not a good launch title assortment make.


The PS2 was weak when it arrived.

...as was the XBox. Again, two good games does not a good launch title assortment make.


Again, the hardware is a load of BS. Not to mention what Blu-ray will do to the price point.

Well considering that the PS2 lead the mainstream DVD revolution both in Japan and the US I'd say this will be the same. Honestly about 70% of the people that purchased PS2's from me in the first year were also picking it up as their first DVD player. And we all know that DVD playback on the PS2 is what smashed the Dreamcast in Japan. The HD-DVD format will never survive, it's just like S-VHS. Blu-Ray is the next step in optical storage.


Can you imagine how reliable those drives will be considering they will need to be CD-ROM/DVD/Blu-ray?

The PS2 drives are shoddy enough already without adding another head.

PS2 laser problems were amended later in the development revision cycle and eliminated with the PSTwo. You have to remember there were a lot of "firsts" that were accomplished with the dual read laser in the PS2. In other words Sony has learned the quirks of the manufacturing process for said assemblies. Let's not forget how many first unit XBox's had seek up problems. Hell, I filled out the return shipment slips for at least two dozen in the first year. MANUFACTURING ERRORS HAPPEN. :)

If you want to take direct potshots at Sony and the PS2 why don't you go after an obvious target - like it only having two controller ports out of the box? :-D Truth is all consoles (all anything in fact) has problems, manufacturing difficulties, lacking features, and so forth.

We can't all be Sega and name each of our consoles "the ultimate gaming system." LOL

[kirin jensen]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[FurinkanianFrood]

Well considering that the PS2 lead the mainstream DVD revolution both in Japan and the US I'd say this will be the same. Honestly about 70% of the people that purchased PS2's from me in the first year were also picking it up as their first DVD player. And we all know that DVD playback on the PS2 is what smashed the Dreamcast in Japan. The HD-DVD format will never survive, it's just like S-VHS. Blu-Ray is the next step in optical storage.


The DC failed in Japan because people didn't want the games that were on it. They were much different than what made the Saturn work over there. DVD was more of an issue in the US.

I have to completely disagree. How is HD-DVD like S-VHS? DO you really think the US market is ready for a new video format? How long did it take for DVD to come along and replace VHS. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

If people are ready for a new format at this point they are just fools who will devour any crap the industry can dish out. Early adopter is often synonymous with braindead hype zombie. Quit trying to varnish the truth.

HD-TV's are a yuppie thing. I don't care what anyone says. The sad reality may be that yuppie things are getting mainstream, but that would just explain why I hate this new wave, obsolete before it hits the shelves fascist bullshit.

I would rather use VMS than f'ing Windoze any day of the week. GUI's are overrated. Vinyl rules. I'm not joking.

It's just sell as much useless crap as you can to whoever will fal for it. That stuff always flew somewhat in Japan I guess.

That's Sony and Microsoft for you.

Say hello to the new trash, worse than the old trash.

And what were the 2 good PS2 launch titles? Other than SSX they were all ugly tripe. And I hate EA so thats hard to admit.

My remark there was pretty much about Halo. It could sell systems by itself.

What was the PS2 launch equivalent of Halo?

The PS2 DVD playback was a hit because the timing was perfect. Can we really say the same with Blu-ray?

What the hell is wrong with DVD picture quality? Are people that jacked up on something?

This bitter 24 year-old geezer is retreating to his Amiga...
PC's suck. They really do. Got any old DEC or Sun workstations to spare?

We're talking mainstream America here. Who is ready to swallow a new format other than people in a few elitist-ridden areas on the coasts?

The PS2 has lesser games and was engineered much worse than the PS. The PS3 looks to continue that trend with the Cell BS.

When will it break?

Also, despite what people keep telling themselves, Sony products are badly engineered and poorly manufactured.

All do companies have manufacturing issues from time to time, but not like Sony.

You say that the PS2 issues have been fixed? What are you talking about? There are plenty of lemon PStwo units out there. It's not just the laser. It's everything.

Since when was the dual head a first? As if other dual head drives hadn't been around for a long time?

A triple head is much more complex. And that's not why I think they were stupid to go with Blu-ray. It's about the manufacturing cost and how much is passed on to the consumer.

How much do you think the Cell and Blu-ray cost to develop and manufacture? Too much for a console for the next couple years still is what.

How the hell are they gonna sell the things for $300.

The loss would make the PS2 losses look like peanuts.

There are several screwed up model numbers.

So we were supposed to pay $300 dollars for an underpowered lemon that never will have more than 20 or so decent games?

And now $400?

Wheeeeeee!

The DC was more powerful and was cheaper, a year earlier?

It had much better games. At launch.

How was the PS2 not a huge rip-off?

I don't think that M$ is dumb enough to do tiering but if they do it will be hilarious.

In that case Nintendo might just have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a nice market share again, especially if the PS3 is as bad as the Cell BS would suggest.

[InsaneDavid]

In an attempt to prevent what's starting to look like a flaming war (which no one wants) I'm just going to answer some of the directly pointed questions... :)


The DC failed in Japan because people didn't want the games that were on it. They were much different than what made the Saturn work over there. DVD was more of an issue in the US.

Hate to tell you but for the first six months the PS2 was released in Japan it was being purchased heavily as it was the cheapest DVD player (er - DVD playing device) on the Japanese market at the time. Video stores were using PS2's as display players - saw it with my own two eyes.


How long did it take for DVD to come along and replace VHS. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

About three years actually.


It's just sell as much useless crap as you can to whoever will fal for it. That stuff always flew somewhat in Japan I guess.

Naa, I think that's more the American way. 'Tis why $1 stores are booming currently.


We're talking mainstream America here. Who is ready to swallow a new format other than people in a few elitist-ridden areas on the coasts?

...potshot at Silicon Valley, bad form my friend, bad form. :shameful: That dishonors CGE.


There are plenty of lemon PStwo units out there.

There are several screwed up units.

Again, bad units are part of the manufacturing process. Sure it sucks if you happen to draw one of those short straws but it happens. There were also plenty of bad GameCubes, XBoxes, GBA's... heck, even the original release of the Super Nintendo had controller problems (the L and R buttons were designed differently inside and were prone to breakage). It happens.


So we are supposed to pay $300 dollars for an underpowered lemon that never will have more than 20 or so decent games?

Let's ignore the underpowered part of that quote and concentrate on the other part, well, you answered that one yourself, except it was concerning the XBox, which has 20 or so decent games...


My remark there was pretty much about Halo. It could sell systems by itself.

Let us now, get this forum back on track. :hail:

[NoahsMyBro]

C'mon man, don't hold it in, tell us how you really feel!





Well considering that the PS2 lead the mainstream DVD revolution both in Japan and the US I'd say this will be the same. Honestly about 70% of the people that purchased PS2's from me in the first year were also picking it up as their first DVD player. And we all know that DVD playback on the PS2 is what smashed the Dreamcast in Japan. The HD-DVD format will never survive, it's just like S-VHS. Blu-Ray is the next step in optical storage.


The DC failed in Japan because people didn't want the games that were on it. They were much different than what made the Saturn work over there. DVD was more of an issue in the US.

I have to completely disagree. How is HD-DVD like S-VHS? DO you really think the US market is ready for a new video format? How long did it take for DVD to come along and replace VHS. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part.

If people are ready for a new format at this point they are just fools who will devour any crap the industry can dish out. Early adopter is often synonymous with braindead hype zombie. Quit trying to varnish the truth.

HD-TV's are a yuppie thing. I don't care what anyone says. The sad reality may be that yuppie things are getting mainstream, but that would just explain why I hate this new wave, obsolete before it hits the shelves fascist bullshit.

I would rather use VMS than f'ing Windoze any day of the week. GUI's are overrated. Vinyl rules. I'm not joking.

It's just sell as much useless crap as you can to whoever will fal for it. That stuff always flew somewhat in Japan I guess.

That's Sony and Microsoft for you.

Say hello to the new trash, worse than the old trash.

And what were the 2 good PS2 launch titles? Other than SSX they were all ugly tripe. And I hate EA so thats hard to admit.

My remark there was pretty much about Halo. It could sell systems by itself.

What was the PS2 launch equivalent of Halo?

The PS2 DVD playback was a hit because the timing was perfect. Can we really say the same with Blu-ray?

What the hell is wrong with DVD picture quality? Are people that jacked up on something?

This bitter 24 year-old geezer is retreating to his Amiga...
PC's suck. They really do. Got any old DEC or Sun workstations to spare?

We're talking mainstream America here. Who is ready to swallow a new format other than people in a few elitist-ridden areas on the coasts?

The PS2 has lesser games and was engineered much worse than the PS. The PS3 looks to continue that trend with the Cell BS.

When will it break?

Also, despite what people keep telling themselves, Sony products are badly engineered and poorly manufactured.

All do companies have manufacturing issues from time to time, but not like Sony.

You say that the PS2 issues have been fixed? What are you talking about? There are plenty of lemon PStwo units out there. It's not just the laser. It's everything.

Since when was the dual head a first? As if other dual head drives hadn't been around for a long time?

A triple head is much more complex. And that's not why I think they were stupid to go with Blu-ray. It's about the manufacturing cost and how much is passed on to the consumer.

How much do you think the Cell and Blu-ray cost to develop and manufacture? Too much for a console for the next couple years still is what.

How the hell are they gonna sell the things for $300.

The loss would make the PS2 losses look like peanuts.

There are several screwed up model numbers.

So we were supposed to pay $300 dollars for an underpowered lemon that never will have more than 20 or so decent games?

And now $400?

Wheeeeeee!

The DC was more powerful and was cheaper, a year earlier?

It had much better games. At launch.

How was the PS2 not a huge rip-off?

I don't think that M$ is dumb enough to do tiering but if they do it will be hilarious.

In that case Nintendo might just have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a nice market share again, especially if the PS3 is as bad as the Cell BS would suggest.