Better company: SquareSoft or Enix, Prior to their Merger?

[James]

This sort of comparison seems to be getting popular lately so I thought it was about time to see what the rest of you guys thought was the better company back in the day.

Enix had: Dragon Warrior/Quest, Star Ocean, The 7th Saga, etc.

Squaresoft had: Final Fantasy, The SaGa series, Chrono Trigger, etc.

Personally I prefered Squaresoft up to the begining of the Playstation era before they let go alot of their good tallent and started releasing sub par Final Fantasy games, etc. Since then I have prefered Enix because they never really lost it until after the Merger. Both companies have offered alot of good software titles over the years and I think this should be a good topic for the community. As of now I no longer have a favourite company from back in the day and the merger shocked me about as much as Sega making games for Nintendo shocked me, maybe we'll see Capcom and Konami get married too. I hope not but who knows.

[link1110]

Enix had the better PS1-era games, but you can't touch Square during their 16-bit golden era.

[DynastyLawyer]

Enix always struck me as a really boring company on their own. Actraiser was fucking badassed, but the Dragon Warrior series always failed to impress me.

Squaresoft, on the meanwhile, was doing well UNTIL Chrono Cross. There was a time where you could buy a game with "Squaresoft" on the front and you'd almost be guaranteed a kick-ass game. That said, Squaresoft probably has the worst record for direct sequels out of anybody. But before the merger, they focused on doing creative shit, like FF Tactics, Vagrant Story, and Xenogears. Even their flagship series, Final Fantasy, was varied to all hell.

What amazes me is the same guys who produced Chrono Trigger 10 years ago merged into one company, and with their fates now permanently financially entertwined, they have yet to produce a fucking decent game.

[PDorr3]

I simply cannot stand square enix, they have yet to release a quality title in MY OPINION. Sure some people like FFX-2, but its just not my cup of tea. Look at what they have released, all the games that have come out from them get horrible (unlimited saga) to OK impressions (full metal alchemist). Heres hoping that FFXII is in the right direction. I really do miss squaresoft and fear we will never see a true traditional FF game ever again.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Square's 16-bit era was IT

I think we would have had a better understanding of Dragon Warrior if it was released more in the USA...I still wonder how DW5 and 6 was like :(

[GobopopRevisited]

They were both very cool... I lost track of both though when they entered in to the PlayStation Era. Enix was better at releasing original games though. Brain Lord, Dark Half, that Robot one... and I like the Soul Blazer games a Lot better then Seiken Densetsu, same with Dragon Quest / Final Fantasy. I'm going with Enix (...Or maybe Quintet, Westone, Tri-Ace, and Chun-Soft?).

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Enix had the better PS1-era games, but you can't touch Square during their 16-bit golden era.

And there you have it in a nut shell. I really gotta admit that I thought Square drop the ball during the PSX ara. Now, it's not like they didn't come out with some amazing games mind you ( namely Xenogears and FF tactics), but they weren't nearly as good a company as before, atleast not IMO.

[SoulBlazer]

Aperently no one who thinks Square Enix has'nt made any good games has yet to play Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories or Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. :)

But the better company before the merger? I like both, but I give the nod to SquareSoft.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Aperently no one who thinks Square Enix has'nt made any good games has yet to play Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories or Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. :)

But I have played all those games. ;)

[PDorr3]

Aperently no one who thinks Square Enix has'nt made any good games has yet to play Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories or Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. :)

But the better company before the merger? I like both, but I give the nod to SquareSoft.

Well FFT:A was a good game....and I have yet to play the others, but they are mainly an opinion on wether they are good or not, not everyone likes card based battles :)

[Querjek]

Square, for making the best game ever.

[Dahne]

Eh, I got bored of FFT:A. Most types of games play well with any challenge level. Strategy games have to be hard, or else there's no point. And the race restriction and the skills attached to items annoyed me.

I miss the weird, random games both companies used to make. Robotrek, Illusion of Gaia, Brave Fencer Musashi...

[Daria]

Square's 16-bit era was IT

I think we would have had a better understanding of Dragon Warrior if it was released more in the USA...I still wonder how DW5 and 6 was like :(

So go play them. 6 is more "pretty" then good, but 5 is right up there with 4.

I've always loved the Dragon Warrior series, and there isn't of game of theres that they've put out that I didn't like. Wait... no I take that back. Torkeno's Last Hope or whatever it was called for the PSX wasn't very good. It was a random dungeon explorer like Azure Dreams or Time Stalkers. Course it helps that I started playing the series when DW1 first came out, so there is that nostalgia factor whenever I pick one of the games up. So as one hopeless fangirl against many, I'll vote Enix.

SoulBlazer: While Square made FFTA they really just bought out Quest who made FFT and had them make the sequal under the Squaresoft name. And Star Ocean is develped by Tri-Ace and only published in the US by Square. And even Kindom Hearts GBA was co-developed in cooperation with Jupiter (they made pokemon pinball and Mario's Picross).

Square mades games, are rarely even made by Square these days. They just throw around enough money to have games made for them. Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as good games are being made I don't care by whom. But at least credit the right group for a job well done. (:

[SoulBlazer]

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the modern situation when most of the large companies just PUBLISH games as opposed to actually MAKING therm. ;)

I don't think Square and Enix have actually MADE a game in their OWN house for quite a while now. :D But that's no different from all the other large gaming companies. Some 75-80 percent are made by smaller companies working for them.

[Super Mario Fan]

I love me some Super Mario RPG, so I'm going to have to say Squaresoft.

One of, if not the best game I ever played. I don't care what anybody says about, it still makes me feel fuzzy inside to this day.

[MegaDrive20XX]

So go play them.


Make me! :P

[Daria]

So go play them.


Make me! :P

If you'd turn on your aim I would. ;)

*readies the roms*

[MegaDrive20XX]

So go play them.


Make me! :P

If you'd turn on your aim I would. ;)

*readies the roms*

Oh you have AIM? I didnt know that... Sorry I had to close it, because about two months ago, so many spammers kept bugging me, send me a PM and I'll add you ok?

[WanganRunner]

I'll just break it down by system, I guess....

NES: Enix
SNES: Square
PSX: Square (Xenogears is my favorite RPG of all time, and I LIKED FF7, unlike seemingly everyone else on the board)

I'm a big fan of FFT:A, especially with the save-anytime function. It's the perfect portable strategy RPG. I play it sitting at home quite often, even when I could be playing something on a home system.

[Aussie2B]

First off, let me say that I absolutely fucking HATE this merger. God, how I wish things could go back to them being separate companies. I understand that it's smart from a business standpoint, as Enix saved Square's ass and now profits from all the Square titles that sell well in Japan AND in the US, unlike Enix's titles that would usually only appeal to the Japanese.

Anyway, before PlayStation, I was absolutely in love with Square and they could do no wrong in my eyes. However, once Square moved to PlayStation nearly everything about the company and its games changed. I really hated Square in the PlayStation days, and I considered pretty much every game they put out as crap. Once I play Final Fantasy Tactics, though, I realized that they could still release SOME good games, but they're few and far between. That's basically how I still feel about Square.

Enix on the other hand, I really started to appreciate in the PlayStation years. I don't think I played any Enix SNES releases until years after the SNES was dead and I was able to buy many of them used. I guess it was tri-Ace that made Enix for me since they're the only publisher tri-Ace has ever had. I also got into the Wonder Project series, so that was another reason to love Enix. Finally, I found reasons other than games to enjoy Enix once I started buying lots of Enix-published Japanese comics.

So yeah, in conclusion, I have much respect for Enix and very little for Square, so that's why I hate the merger. O_o

[SoulBlazer]

You never played Actraiser or SoulBlazer or 7th Guest?

Enix may not have been the best company in the SNES days, but they made some damn good games. :D

[Drexel923]

You never played Actraiser or SoulBlazer or 7th Guest?

Enix may not have been the best company in the SNES days, but they made some damn good games. :D

I believe you mean The 7th Saga.

While I love Actraiser and SoulBlazer, Square's SNES games are enough to put them on top.

[Aussie2B]

You never played Actraiser or SoulBlazer or 7th Guest?

Enix may not have been the best company in the SNES days, but they made some damn good games. :D

Still haven't played SoulBlazer or 7th Saga. I did pick up Actraiser in the last few years along with other fun titles like Brain Lord and Illusion of Gaia and such (and some imports like Dragon Quest 6 and Wonder Project J). Enix was great in the SNES days, but I just didn't really know of their existence at the time. I was too busy playing stuff like Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG. Last I had played anything from Enix was back in the NES days with Dragon Warrior and such (and back then I was so young and clueless that I didn't even really know who made any of the games I played).

[Snapple]

First off, I love FF7, and I still don't understand how people think that was the dropoff of Square. Just because that's when it became popular? The kinds of people playing a game don't affect whether it's bad or good. I didn't like FF8 at all, but other than that, I've enjoyed all of the 3D Final Fantasies. And, this was after having a solid background in the previous US-released FFs, too.

To me, there's no comparison. Square is better. Always has been. Ever since the first Final Fantasy came out, Dragon Quest has yet to catch up.

My favorite Enix game is Star Ocean: The Second Story. I've beaten it more times than probably any other game I own, so I'm certainly not going to say that Enix is a bad company.

I really don't understand Dragon Quest nuts. I've tried to, and I accept that they love the games, but then they have to go make brash statements like "DQ is better than FF." Um... okay.

I haven't played DQ7, but I have played 1-6, and I've beaten all of the first six except DQ2. So I think I'm in a well-educated position to make a judgment on the series.

People love to bash Mega Man for being the same thing over and over again. Why don't people ever put the same stigma on Dragon Quest? I look at DQ6, and it's the exact same friggin' battle system from the first game. It starts to get old after a while.

I also know that graphics and sound don't make or break a game, but DQ has always been WAY behind the times as far as graphical and sound capability. Each installment looks like they've half-assed the presentation. You'd think that DQ being the humongous blockbuster that it is in Japan, they'd spring a couple of bucks and manhours to get something decent-looking even just once.

Sure, DQ has tried to vary up the gameplay a bit in each title, and that's the strong point of the series. Starting in DQ3, you could build your own party. In DQ4, they finally gave a good story and a ton of characters to choose from. In DQ5, they introduced monster-recruiting, so you could mix and match human party members with slimes and dragons. In DQ6, they added a job system. These are all good things, but in most of these cases, there's been a parallel Final Fantasy that did the same thing but about ten times better.

The job system in DQ6 for example I couldn't really wrap myself around. There was no visual difference in jobs during battle, since there still aren't any character battle sprites. The skills obtained just kinda lapped on top of each other with no strategic rearrangement. The job system also destroyed monster-recruiting, because in addition to the fact that the capturable monsters were just cut-and-pastes from the recuitable monsters in 5, it also generalized their attributes. Most monsters in 6 had tiny skillsets to set them apart from each other, because most skills were learned through jobs. So they were way too interchangable.

Then you look at FF5, which gave each of the jobs a bright and colorful appearance. You also didn't just level jobs to keep learning stupid spells. You had support abilities and other things. You also couldn't keep all of them at once. You had to pick and choose how to build a character, and the system was just... well, better.

DQ are still good games. They're just not better than the pinnacle of Final Fantasy, not by a long shot. My favorites are DQ4 and DQ5. Those are the only two games in the entire series that I have ever felt the want to play again after beating them the first time. Then, if you ask me how many times I've beaten Chrono Trigger, it'll be a lot more than the entire Dragon Quest franchise combined. Same with Final Fantasy 4, and 5, and 6, and 7, and 9, and 10.

At least Final Fantasy takes risks. They completely reinvent themselves with each game. A new graphics engine. A new battle engine. A new ability-learning system. A new story. A new setting. Even if they sometimes miss the mark, at least they're trying, and they always give it everything they have. As opposed to Enix, who found one semi-successful formula, and milked it dry with minimal change over and over.


EDIT: Oh, and 7th Saga was attrocious, Act Raiser was awesome, and Act Raiser 2 made me seriously scratch my head. Meanwhile, Square had other 16-bit masterpieces like Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, and Live-a-Live. And the first Star Ocean was way, way, way too short.

[DDCecil]

Having played (and beaten) just about every US game from both companies, they both have their great games (The DQ games, FF 4-6, and IS: Internal Section - Squaresoft's most underrated game) and games I just didn't like or care for. (FF7, CT, and Illusion of Gaia). So I guess it's a tie.

The only thing I've enjoyed from the merger thus far is the Kenshin Dragon Quest TV game.

[Daria]

I really don't understand Dragon Quest nuts. I've tried to, and I accept that they love the games, but then they have to go make brash statements like "DQ is better than FF." Um... okay.

Isn't that what makes someone a fanboy in the first place? But it's more often heard for the Square team, you have to look pretty hard in America for the die-hard Dragon Warrior fans.


People love to bash Mega Man for being the same thing over and over again. Why don't people ever put the same stigma on Dragon Quest? I look at DQ6, and it's the exact same friggin' battle system from the first game. It starts to get old after a while.

Why would they alter their battle system? I know the final fantasy games have overgone variation through out the years, but just because that's one series practice doesn't mean it's the right way to do things for all games. The DW system works and it's what the fans are accustom to. If you leave working elements of the game alone, with each new installment of the series it leaves developers the freedom to focus on another aspect of design. With RPGs storyline is King.


I also know that graphics and sound don't make or break a game, but DQ has always been WAY behind the times as far as graphical and sound capability. Each installment looks like they've half-assed the presentation. You'd think that DQ being the humongous blockbuster that it is in Japan, they'd spring a couple of bucks and manhours to get something decent-looking even just once.

Always behind the times? Really? 4 of the 8 Dragon Quest titles were produced for the NES which really wasn't a system known for it's breath taking visuals. Dragon Warrior 4 was a very late release for an NES game. Deputing in America after the Snes and the graphics show. It's a good looking game. Dragon Quest 6 is one gorgous snes game, you should know you've played it, and Dragon Quest 8 is shaping up to be one of the best looking PS2 games I've ever seen.

Granted DW7's pretty fugly. Good game though.

Enix sprung the money and manhours on graphics, not once, but on three distinct occasions. They'd probably do so more often, but maybe they realize it's fans aren't the graphical whores that Final Fantasy fanboys are known to be. ;)

Also did you know that Dragon Quest for the famicom didn't even have a hero sprite that faced to the side when he walked? The graphics were completely overhauled for it's US release. Again, Enix took the effort to spruce up the visuals.

I'd respond to more of your post but I don't have the time right now. I just think you're being a little narrow minded and unfair.

[Promophile]

I've never been a fan of dragon quest, WAY too generic for my liking. I'm more of a Earthbound guy if you know what I mean. :) . I loved the hell out of the SNES era Squresoft (Chrono Trigger, FF3) so that would be my pick.

[Tron 2.0]

SquareSoft>Enix

Since i was expose to, SquareSoft frist early on then i got into Enix.