Konami - Grade *A* Bastards! (Petition against Konami UK)

[Gemini-Phoenix]

If you happen to have the misfortune of living in the UK and like Konami games, then you will most probaby know how difficult, nay, impossible it is to get hold of sealed Konami games (If that is what you are after...)

Apparently, Konami don't seal their games. Well, not all of them anyway.

I know for a fact that the above statemnt is false as I happen to own factory sealed copies of Suikoden I and Vandal Hearts II (PAL versions) for the PSone.


It's PAL PS2 games in particular which seems to be the problem area.


I have previously bought sealed PAL Xbox Konami games (Amongst them - MGS 2 Substance), as well as sealed NTSC PS2 Konami games (Most notably Suikoden III and Firefighter FD18) so there is no question about whether or not they seal their games, because it is fact that they do.


Many of the PS2 games I want and am missing are Konami games. As I only ever buy sealed games, this is a problem. Especially when two of them are the recently released Metal Gear Solid 3 adn Suikoden IV.


Why do they discriminate against the UK market? Are they tring to limit the resale value of certain games? (Ie, Suikoden - Based on the first two)


It is no secret that Konami are also notorious for their limited production runs - Especially in the UK. Just take many of the rarest Snes and PlayStation games and you will see that roughly 70% of the rarest games are made / published by Konami!


So, if like me you agree that they should start to seal their games, and give us what we rightfully deserve (Ie, the right to own a virgin untouched perfect product) then feel free to follow the link below to make a complaint directly to Konami themselves!


Contact Konami (https://www.konami.co.jp/inquiry/cgi-bin/inquiry02.cgi?PAGE_NAME=product)


If you do so, then please post below to let us know!


PS: Please don't start flaming with the likes of "Why buy sealed games?" and "Buy pre-owned" Etc. - As collectors, I am sure many of you can see my point of view and see that this is something which affects many of us - ESPECIALLY us collectors!

[Cmosfm]

I'm pretty sure Konami doesn't have sealed game collectors in mind when there getting games ready to ship out.

'sall I gotta say.

[kainemaxwell]

Doesn't matter really.

[Cauterize]

Games are made to be played... not left sealed.
I vote for Konami UK, keep the games coming!

[Gemini-Phoenix]

I'm pretty sure Konami doesn't have sealed game collectors in mind when there getting games ready to ship out.

'sall I gotta say.

Yeah, still.

Let's put it this way - You have to have a certain level of trust when you go to buy a new game from a store, but if it is sealed, it is 100% guaranteed brand new and never played.


I have already chatted to about a dozen eBay sellers trying to sell MGS 3 and Suikoden IV on eBay, and they all say the same thing - They are finding it fairly hard to shift these games - Harder than if they were sealed that is.

Most of them also tell me that they have three times as many eMails asking them if the game is actually brand new and / or sealed.

So this effects everybody, not just gamers and collectors, but also the little sellers too.


I know for a fact that so long as my Suikoden I stays sealed, it will only rise in value over the years. Basically, Suikoden IV will never do that, and will never have the chance to either, no matter how low the production run is.


I still see people on eBay trying to sell Paper Mario's as brand new - Two and a half years after it was pulled from the shop shelves! Yet I have only ever seen two officially sealed copies on eBay in the last year and a half, and I grabbed one for £75. The second sold for £128! Whereas unsealed ones only tend to do between £40 and £60.


And this is exactly why I believe Konami are deliberately trying to limit the resale value of certain games.

[GarrettCRW]

While I can join the club when it comes to Konami's release policies, *cough*GradiusDeluxePack*cough*Policenauts*cough*P arodiusDeluxePackPlus*coughhackwheeze* I don't see what the fuss is here. The games still have the sticky label on the top, right?

[Gemini-Phoenix]

While I can join the club when it comes to Konami's release policies, *cough*GradiusDeluxePack*cough*Policenauts*cough*P arodiusDeluxePackPlus*coughhackwheeze* I don't see what the fuss is here. The games still have the sticky label on the top, right?

PAL games we are on about here. Only teh American games have the white security label. English games don't even have that.

Hence the problem, as you will never be able to tell if a game is actually brand new, or whether the store staff have been borrowing it, or if the game has been returned under some gay 10 day return policy or anything like that...

[Lord Contaminous]

We won't tolerate 85,000,000 fingerprints all over our boxes.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

We won't tolerate 85,000,000 fingerprints all over our boxes.

And another thing to consider is those stickers they always plaster the game boxes! And they leave horrible sticky marks when you peel them off...

That was what mainly originally got me to buy sealed games only, because I used to hate fingerprints all over the bx / manual / disc, and tI detest those stickers.

And those stickers aren't even easy to peel off either. And they insist on having stickers which take up half the front cover of the game too!!!

It is bareable having stickers on cellophane, but only just. At least with a sealed game you know it is immacculate inside!

[Iron Draggon]

It is no secret that Konami are also notorious for their limited production runs - Especially in the UK. Just take many of the rarest Snes and PlayStation games and you will see that roughly 70% of the rarest games are made / published by Konami!

And yet my recent thread here about the potential rarity of Pinobee, for this very reason among others, was locked after I was mocked and laughed at for even suggesting that it was possible for that game to become a rarity... Apparently, it is a secret that some people have yet to realize is a solid fact...

[goatdan]

If it is known to not come wrapped in plastic, then I don't see what the big deal is. The game didn't come sealed, so that is how it comes if you want it in a "new" condition. If I recall correctly, until spine cards came along, most Japanese games weren't shrinked.

[boatofcar]

I think shrinkwrapping is mostly a US phenomenon. When I worked at a record store, most of our cd and lp imports did not come sealed or shrinkwrapped. We actually had to shrink them in the store because people were complaining that they were used because they were open LOL

[esquire]

It is no secret that Konami are also notorious for their limited production runs - Especially in the UK. Just take many of the rarest Snes and PlayStation games and you will see that roughly 70% of the rarest games are made / published by Konami!

And yet my recent thread here about the potential rarity of Pinobee, for this very reason among others, was locked after I was mocked and laughed at for even suggesting that it was possible for that game to become a rarity... Apparently, it is a secret that some people have yet to realize is a solid fact...

Not sure how this is relevant or applicable to this thread. Pinobee is readily available in large quantities, sealed. Blockbuster/Game Rush has these in large quantities ,new and sealed.

[anagrama]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Yet the strange thing is, this phenomenon is only limited to just the UK.

Take Ephemeral Fantasia for example. American version is widely available, sealed. German eBay always seems to have one on there, sealed. (The German one, by the way, is in German only)

Yet you try and find a genuine UK version sealed... Ain't gonna happen. especially seeing as the UK version had a low production run.


Silent Hill 2, 3 & 4. MGS 2 & Substance. Various other ones too.


But the strange thing is, certain games ARE released sealed... I have seen Pro Evolution Soccer (1, 2, 3 & 4) sealed. I have also seen a Konami Yugioh game sealed as well, so it is also limited to the specific game.


Some people may like to buy Pre-owned games. Others may like to buy unsealed games, but I tend to like my games in perfect condition. In the case of MGS 3 and Suikoden IV - New they may or may not be, but at the end of the day, they are shop-soiled.


And on a side note - GameBoy games - Sit on the shelves for ages, get battered around, and yet they still expect you to buy the game after the box has been beaten and battered... No thank you. I like my GameBoy games to be wrapped up in their plastic!!! 100% perfect condition!

[SoulBlazer]

This is exactly why I think anyone who wants sealed games only is nuts. ;)

[SuperNES]

it does'nt bother me really, as i don't live in britain and i don't have a PS2.

[GobopopRevisited]

This is exactly why I think anyone who wants sealed games only is nuts. ;)

???

If your on a quest to buy used games, theres nothing better than getting an unsealed game... But when you get a new game, you have to be crazy to want a Sealed game? Awesome... I, and the rest of the Gaming community is certifiably insane!

[Gamereviewgod]

Hey if can save them a few cents on each copy which can then be turned into potentially more dev time, I could care less.

BTW, if all you collect is sealed games, what do you actually play??

[SoulBlazer]

That's not really what I ment....I ment that anyone who ONLY wants to collect sealed games is nuts for reasons such as the ones in this thread, the difficulty in proving it's sealed, etc.

But I allready think everyone here is nuts anyway. :P

[Kroogah]

For those of you who are unaware of the artform of trolling, I have included a link below...


The Art Of Forum Trolling


Basically, that whole "Ever try this with eBay (And Royal Mail)" thread was a test. That's right, a test. I wanted to see how many people would bite.

I know doing so was wrong, but I wanted to put a theory into practice...


Like come on, AS IF! For starters, I think someone would soon notice that a load of claims were going through for my address. Secondly, I think the mailmen would have a little more sense than to repeatedly do such a thing.


So I apologise for leading a few people astray and for provoking an arguement, but my experiment is over.

I know doing so was wrong, but it helped me with my research into "The Art Of Trolling"


Basically, I just wanted to spread the word about *Forum Trolls* and how they operate. Now you have all been the victim of my devious *Trolling operation* you are well aware of how easy it is to get caught up in one.

*Trolls* operate on all forums, and it is so easially to become their prey. Be aware, and think before you go off on one...

Anybody remember? Anyone? HELLOOOOOOOOOOO?

[link1110]

If it helps, no games for nintendo systems are sealed in Japan. I've been buying them new since the SFC days. Though I'll admit I don't remember if my one GC import was sealed or not, and I never imported a DS game, I know for sure Famicom, Super Famicom, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance imports were never sealed. I even got taken once on a "Sealed Dragon Quest 3 Famicom" game on Ebay before I knew about Famicom games.

Japanese games for PS1 and PS2 are sealed when new, as are Turbo Duo games however.

[Berserker]

I guess I just don't see what the big deal is.

Since there is no seal, just check the CD/DVD itself for scratches, check the case for scratches, and if there aren't any, buy the game.

The only difference between sealed and unsealed, as I see it, is the latter requires you to have a more active role when looking for "perfect, pristine" games. The only thing a thin layer of shrinkwrap does is guarantee this, on the inside anyways. So if you've seen the inside, and know that everything's in perfect condition, where's the problem?

The only other reasoning I can see is for bragging rights, as in "I have however many sealed games". But how is that any different from saying "I have however many games that are in absolutely perfect condition"? Is that less bragworthy?

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see your reasoning, but I just think that it's more or less just hair-splitting, even if you're hardcore about the condition of your games.

[NintendoMan]

We won't tolerate 85,000,000 fingerprints all over our boxes.
Very true, that SUCKS! That's why I usually don't buy used games with cases! One thousands fingerprints, shit load of stickers, and usually something ripped or the case has dirt on it.

[Luke]

This has been going on in Australia since the early PS2 days and was the reason I do not buy PAL games and more and now only buy US and JP games. If you feel the same then you too should abandon the APL market as well.

Luke

[Gemini-Phoenix]

BTW, if all you collect is sealed games, what do you actually play??

I have two separate collections - Games I collect, and games I play. All games I buy have got to be sealed though.

In the case of many games though, I will borrow or rent. Sometimes I may copy some games from my mates. and use my PC to play them, whilst keeping my copy of the game in perfect sealed condition.


As far as sealed games go, I am extremely passionate about them. Anyone else here the same? I just can't deal with the fact that somebody has touched my product before me. It gives me the creeps!


Has anyone else eMailed Konami with their thoughts yet? I think if enough people eMail them, they may decide to change their mind about their manufacturing practices...


All the other companies manage to do it, so why can't they? At the end of the day, if it only costs a few cents to ensure a game is actually brand new, then I say do it.


At the end of the day, if you buy one of the above mentioned games on release day, then fair enough, it can be considered new, but a week, or a month down the line, it is no different from any other game - Including pre-owned ones.

If the game is sealed, it remains brand new and certifiably untouched forever! So you could buy it five years down the line knowing for a FACT that it has never been played or touched.

[SoulBlazer]

Dude, you're starting to freak me out. @_@

[FurinkanianFrood]

I don't live in the UK but far too often I have bought "new" games only to find out that the discs were scratched up (and badly).

This makes it far too easy for retailers to sell used games as new. Around here they usually put shrink wrap on games when they do that, and while it doesn't fool me, if the games had nothing on them in the first place the purchaser can never know if the game was bought new or if they payed the new game price for a relatively well kept trade in.

Quality issues helped drive me away from the PS2 altogether....
Good luck with your disc drives folks.... and if it breaks down, pray that Sony gets your PS2 back to you within the year and actually fixed. I'm really not making this stuff up..... Sony has "lost" people's PS2s and returned them much later still broken.....



Dude, you're starting to freak me out. Eyecrazy.gif


I'm rather creeped out by the "my games have to be sealed" thing too, but I think that new games should be sealed anyway, for reasons above. I certainly don't have the money to waste on games I won't open... To each their own... I guess....

I think that it's a bit different with cartridge systems though, SFamicom like someone mentioned for instance.

[thegreatescape]

I demand apathy!

[Vroomfunkel]

And this is exactly why I believe Konami are deliberately trying to limit the resale value of certain games.

I am still struggling to understand why Konami would care in the slightest about the resale value of their games. Konami only make money on the first sale, so anything beyond that surely won't concern them in slightest.

In fact, if they were thinking about this at all, sure they would be sealing their games, for precisely the reason that if it later turns out that one of the games goes astronomical for sealed copies, they can churn out any excess stock they have in a warehouse somewhere and make a mint!

However the fact is that a company like Konami won't waste their time dabbling around with things like that - they are solely concerned with the shelf sales. If a game becomes so rare that a sealed copy is worth a fortune, that is probably an indicator for them that it performed appallingly in the shops!

The issue of whether they seal the games or not is in all likelihood due to the deals they have with manufacturers in different countries. Presumably the UK manufacturer doesn't seal the games. It would cost more for them to request that the manufacturer change their procedures, or to swap the contract to a different manufacturer than it would be worth for sales to a practically insignificant number of people who actually care about it.

That's business. Feel free to email them with your complaint, but frankly I really doubt if they will give it any consideration.

Vroomfunkel

[FantasiaWHT]

Think about it for a sec...

How does shrink wrapping their games benefit KONAMI?

Sure, it benefits ebay sellers, because they can make a profit if a game becomes rare. Why should Konami pay the manufacturers a few extra cents per game (times a few hundred thousand or a million...) so that somebody else can make a profit?

That's like complaining that sony shouldn't have rereleased Final Fantasy Tactics as a Greatest Hits because it hurt the resale value of your original copy.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

If it helps, no games for nintendo systems are sealed in Japan. I've been buying them new since the SFC days. Though I'll admit I don't remember if my one GC import was sealed or not, and I never imported a DS game, I know for sure Famicom, Super Famicom, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance imports were never sealed. I even got taken once on a "Sealed Dragon Quest 3 Famicom" game on Ebay before I knew about Famicom games.

Japanese games for PS1 and PS2 are sealed when new, as are Turbo Duo games however.

I thought they had some kind of law in Japan where everything has to be sealed and sold with their respective spine card???

I so wish we had a law like that here. I would love that so much. They should make it law that every game / Cd / Dvd has to be sealed (And not shrinkwrapped either!) in order for it to be sold as brand new. Otherwise the product has to be sold as used.


But as they also have a law in Japan regarding the resale of games...


It all comes down to the fact that we are paying good money for a product. We should have the right to receive it in the best possible condition we can. Not some game which has been knocking around the shop for a while getting "Shop soiled"


Shop soiled meaning = Getting moved constantly, handled by everyone and their dog (Hygiene anyone?), and having those massive stickers constantly put on them. Not to mention the damage some box's incure -My local GAME has the skankiest Donkey Konga box set you have ever seen!!!


Plus, the benefit of getting sealed games is that you know everything which is supposed to come inside is definately in there, and hasn't been tampered with.


I know people who have bought GameCube / GBA games which haven't been sealed, only to find that someone had removed the Nintendo Stars leaflet from inside. Not such a big deal to some, but it just goes to prove my point.

[Nez]

If you don't like the copies of the game move on and find another. Jeez its not like every copy in the UK will look like ass after 2 days.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

And just one more thing to quickly consider -


GAME have (Or used to have) a 10 day *Play & Trade* policy.

This meant you could buy a game on release day, have it for 10 days and then take it back and trade for another game for the same price.


Now I know a lot of people who used to do this, but you have to wonder what happened to all the returned games... Did they get resold as pre-owned games?

No. Sometimes GAME would return the games to their supplier, the same way they do for damaged goods (If anyone here works in retail, then they will know the kind of procedure)

Other times they would be sneaky. They would check the contents and general condition of the game, and if it was still 100% minty, then they would give it to the next customer who bought that particular game. I know they are not supposed to do that, but that's what they did.



Consider this:

You could buy a game on day of release (Say, 10 AM). You could have played it quickly or just decided that you didn't want it. You could then take it back an hour later (11 AM) and get a refund, or trade it back in for something else (Maybe say you bought it by mistake???)


Technically, the game is still a brand new game and a brand new release, but by law they SHOULD then sell it as pre-owned, but they don't, they resell it again as brand new.

Now if the game is sealed, that isn't a problem. But as many aren't...


Just a little thing to consider next time you go to the shop to purchace a game...

[Nez]

You could buy a game on day of release (Say, 10 AM). You could have played it quickly or just decided that you didn't want it. You could then take it back an hour later (11 AM) and get a refund, or trade it back in for something else (Maybe say you bought it by mistake???)


Technically, the game is still a brand new game and a brand new release, but by law they SHOULD then sell it as pre-owned, but they don't, they resell it again as brand new.

Now if the game is sealed, that isn't a problem. But as many aren't...


Just a little thing to consider next time you go to the shop to purchace a game...

OH NO MY PERFECTLY MINT GAME ISN"T NEW!!! BASTARDS!! :o

[anagrama]

If it's such a big problem for you then exercise your consumer rights by not buying them. Simple, really. :roll:

[Gemini-Phoenix]

A Revelation!!!


I now have in my posession a picture of a UK PAL Metal Gear Solid 3 - FACTORY SEALED!

A kind eBayer was helpful enough to supply me with what I wanted, and came through!

[esquire]

BTW, if all you collect is sealed games, what do you actually play??

I have two separate collections - Games I collect, and games I play. All games I buy have got to be sealed though.


It all comes down to the fact that we are paying good money for a product. We should have the right to receive it in the best possible condition we can. Not some game which has been knocking around the shop for a while getting "Shop soiled"


Shop soiled meaning = Getting moved constantly, handled by everyone and their dog (Hygiene anyone?), and having those massive stickers constantly put on them. Not to mention the damage some box's incure -My local GAME has the skankiest Donkey Konga box set you have ever seen!!!

Well, if you have two collections - one sealed and one open to play, what difference does it make if the sealed copy's plastic shrinkwrap is shop soiled as opposed to the open copy being shop soiled? The effect is still same if you are that concerned about hygiene. I'd hate to play a game at your house. Do you make your guests wear latex gloves when they play your games? LOL You're like the "Howard Hughes" of gaming with your fear of germs. If you are that concerned with opened games and germs, spray a little lysol or windex cleaner on a rag and apply it to the plastic case. No harm there.


Plus, the benefit of getting sealed games is that you know everything which is supposed to come inside is definately in there, and hasn't been tampered with.

I know people who have bought GameCube / GBA games which haven't been sealed, only to find that someone had removed the Nintendo Stars leaflet from inside. Not such a big deal to some, but it just goes to prove my point.

If you never open the game, how do you know it is complete? There have been a few times where I've bought a game or dvd, opened it only to discover something is is missing such as an insert or warranty card.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

In a strange twist to this whole Konami conundrum, I have discovered that it is the UK market that they tend to discriminate against...


I recently came across an auction on eBay for a factory sealed copy of Suikoden IV ~ "Great" I thought, but I noticed that it was the French release (From the French only writing on the back)

Same seller also had a load of English ones (UK releases), which he said he got direct from Konami, but which weren't sealed...


I have also noticed that some games with higher print runs (Ie, Pro Evo games) tend to come sealed, as do Platinum releases ~ I am now pretty certain that this practice is to limit the resale value of certain games... Games like Suikoden IV and Ephemeral Fantasia which are very hard to get as it is...

Ephemeral Fantasia being another game where European copies are widely available saled (German copies) but UK ones aren't...

[goatdan]

I have also noticed that some games with higher print runs (Ie, Pro Evo games) tend to come sealed, as do Platinum releases ~ I am now pretty certain that this practice is to limit the resale value of certain games... Games like Suikoden IV and Ephemeral Fantasia which are very hard to get as it is...

Seriously, why would Konami care about the resale value of certain games? If they saw that the market was commanding $100.00 for a game they released last year, then if they wanted to keep prices down they could simply release another print run.

I still don't get what the big deal is. If Konami doesn't shrinkwrap their products, then Konami doesn't shrinkwrap their products and that is just how they come. I don't see this as some huge conspiracy.

[anagrama]

Wasn't this thread crap enough the first time around?

[Cmosfm]

[quote="anagrama"]Wasn't this thread crap enough the first time around?[/quote

it was Crap x infinity.

:P

[Cauterize]

Wasn't this thread crap enough the first time around?

it was Crap x infinity.

:P

Tell me about it... the fact youre getting in a hissy fit because Konami wont bow down to the pathetic sealing methods you worship, really made me lose interest...

Also i think youre on your own here, about 99.99% dont give a damn about this matter and probably never will...

Sealed games arent for gamers, Gamers PLAY games!
(I see sealed collectors as pure money makers... correct me if i am wrong)

[Cmosfm]

Wasn't this thread crap enough the first time around?

it was Crap x infinity.

:P

Tell me about it... the fact youre getting in a hissy fit because Konami wont bow down to the pathetic sealing methods you worship, really made me lose interest...

Also i think youre on your own here, about 99.99% dont give a damn about this matter and probably never will...

Sealed games arent for gamers, Gamers PLAY games!
(I see sealed collectors as pure money makers... correct me if i am wrong)

Especially if you're collecting current stuff.

Classic, I can understand, because a sealed NES or SNES game isn't going up in value any more than it is now.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Looks like Konami have done it again, but with the PSP this time...

What do Konami have against Sony? Or rather, Konami products being sold in the UK for Sony platforms???

Every copy of Metal Gear Ac!d I see is unsealed, which is bizarre, as every single other PSP game I see has a tear strip with "PSP" written across it...

[Vectorman0]

I read through the entire topic and found it quite interesting how everyone seems to have such a huge problem with collecting sealed games. From the developers standpoint, games are meant to be played. But so are comics meant to be read, action figures to be played with and stamps meant to be mailed. But that doesn't stop enthusiasts from keeping them in as pristine a condition as possible in their collections.

I just noticed some hostility towards Gemini-Phoenix and thought I shoud stand up for him a bit. One last thing, everyone check the homepage, and read the first line you see below the DP header. I think may enlighten a few.

[Enixis]

Quite odd. My PAL MGS2 - Sons of Liberty was sealed when i got it on release day. Though the dvd case didnt have a memory card holder.

[sharp]

Get a life, collecting sealed games is stupid in my opinion as games are mentioned to be played. Yes maybe you buy a second copy, but after it's sold out somebody else could be happy with that copy.

I really see no use in collecting sealed games and I don't think Konami gives a damn. I would sign a petition to get the old Konami-logo back as I don't like the new one.

[GarrettCRW]

Somebody kill this thread-PLEASE.

[importaku]

It seems like these kind of threads keep popping up so gemini phoenix can brag abut his sealed collection. Look if you want people to know about how many sealed games you have just take pics of them & put them in a room of doom gallery & just refer people there.

I find it annoying when people use the sealed games thing as a bragging tool to elevate themselves above other collectors. I have no problem with sealed games but when i buy them i just tear off the seal & play the game.

Games serve one & ONLY one purpose & thats is to be played. Only thing i care about when i buy a game is that its in new condition & fully complete i couldnt care less that someone might have touched it.

On another note you do realise that even your sealed games has been touched by at least 1 person before it was sealed. For each game there is someone in a factory putting the manuals in by hand.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Hostilities aside, this is a totally different type or debate. It was not intended to be yet another sealed games Vs unsealed argument, but rather a debate revolving around the questionable activities of Konami / Sony in regards to why and what do they gain from this practice.

I think there is still a certain stigmatism against people who collect sealed games in much the same way as there used to be one about gamers in general. As time has progressed, gaming has become socially acceptable, but there are still people out there who consider collecting sealed games as "Taboo" in terms of game collecting. It's like being the black sheep amongst the flock. :roll:

It's not a "Bragging tool" but a serious debate. If I wanted to brag about my stuff, i'd start a thread called "Look at my sealed stuff and weep" or something. And believe it or not, there are actually people out there who also share my same views and feelings towards this, as the poll clearly shows. Over 30%, and quite a few people have taken the poll...



I strongly believe that it is down to the potential future resale value of the games. Konami are well known for producing "some of" the very rarest games in existence on many a platform, and it doesn't take much to locate an auction on eBay which involves a stupidly priced sealed copy of Suikoden or the like...


My main concern is why? Why do they discriminate against the UK market? This is the one thing which bugs me the most, and I can't understand why other countries benefit from certain games being sealed, and the UK doesn't.

Suikoden IV for example ~ I reported above about how French copies are easially available sealed. As are American ones. Yet since it's release, I have yet to see an officially sealed UK version.


I have also noticed that Platinum versions of certain games will come sealed, whereas their black label counterparts did not. This leads me to believe that it is not a question of cost. If it were, then it would have been the other way around, with the Platinum games being unsealed to save on costs.


In fact, you'd be hard pushed to find many games out of the entire Konami PS2 catalogue which are sealed. I have a few, but I can tell you that they were exceedingly hard to obtain, and I only managed to get them through hard work trawling through auction after auction for many months.


And this whole PSP thing is taking it too far. If you search eBay for a sealed copy of Metal Gear Ac!d for instance, the only ones you will find will all be American or Japanese. Or shrinkwrapped reseals. I bet good money on it.


I will also state, in their defence, that it's not just limited to PS2 games. Certain other games across platforms also suffer, most probably due to the same reason (Future resale perhaps) ~ Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes on the Cube is one game where the PAL version is impossible to find sealed. Although, American versions are widely available sealed...

[Arcade Antics]

Hostilities aside,
Hostilities aside? Do I need to point out the ridiculous title you came up with for this topic? Yes. Yes I do.


Konami - Grade *A* Bastards! (Petition against Konami UK)

Failing to shrinkwrap a game does not a "Grade A Bastard" make.


this is a totally different type or debate. It was not intended to be yet another sealed games Vs unsealed argument, but rather a debate revolving around the questionable activities of Konami / Sony in regards to why and what do they gain from this practice.
They gain money and time. And since time is money, they gain moneyx2.

You don't like it, don't buy their games. And tell them you don't like it. Beyond that, you're wasting your time. (And remember what time is, folks! See above ;))

[TEXASGAMEPLAYER]

Gemini-Phoenix, I agree 100% and I feel your pain. :( I am a sealed/ mint collector and am tired of some punk kid handing me an open copy of a game at a game store when I ask for a new copy. Then I say "This is not new, it's open". Then he says "It's open BUT it's still new, it was only used as a display copy, I can knock off 5%" I CAN KNOCK HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF HIS SHOULDERS I GET SO MAD AT SOMEONE CALLING AN OPEN COPY (AKA USED) DISPLAY COPY OR WHAT EVER NEW!! IT IS NOT NEW IF IT HAS BEEN OPENED!!!!!!

[Leo_A]

"And this is exactly why I believe Konami are deliberately trying to limit the resale value of certain games."

Good news if that's true. Wish they'd all take this approach.

[PapaStu]

While I can join the club when it comes to Konami's release policies, *cough*GradiusDeluxePack*cough*Policenauts*cough*P arodiusDeluxePackPlus*coughhackwheeze* I don't see what the fuss is here. The games still have the sticky label on the top, right?

PAL games we are on about here. Only the American games have the white security label. English games don't even have that.

Hence the problem, as you will never be able to tell if a game is actually brand new, or whether the store staff have been borrowing it, or if the game has been returned under some gay 10 day return policy or anything like that...

Not Anymore. As of about 3 months ago the top seal was removed from ALL PS2 new releases. The first one I noticed was Metal Slug 4/5 but lots of the new stuff (and newer copies of some older games) are all hitting the stores W/O the top sticker. Yes they are still shrinked (and its a hard shrink unless its a big boxed game like Karaoke Revolution w/mic) but the days of PlayStation top seals are gone.... at least for now.

GameCube stuff has never been more than hard shrinked (most of the time, some are soft only) and earlier MS games didnt all even have their white seals on the games. Now it seems that most do (but alas i'm not buying anywhere near the number of games I was before) and still some are hard shrinked and others are soft, depends on the publisher.

Your garantee is that hard shrink. Its the much harder to reproduce kind of shrink since almost any store isnt going to have anything much better than soft shrink that gets
blowdryed on.

Your other safe bet is to walk into these stores and buy them new yourself. No complaints there. Dont rely on ebayers to get your new games.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

IT IS NOT NEW IF IT HAS BEEN OPENED!!!!!!

These words should be immortalised over every game store entrance! This is a quote I live my life by, and it doesn't just stop at games, but also applies for Cd's / Dvd's and even everyday things like a new Walkman or a packet of fags, say...

I don't even bother with Amazon or Play anymore, as all they ever send me is unsealed games. I have no guarantee that these games aren't used. How can I tell? For all I know, these may have been mailed to half a dozen other people who have all returned it.

In my experience, if something is discounted to an unbelievable price, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be in scrappy condition. GameBoy games for example. These people don't care about it's condition when they are throwing these things around the warehouse. If your order gets damaged, they don't care.


Most people also think that a small price drop is an acceptable compromise for a damaged case. I don't believe so. No matter what a game costs, I would expect it to be in A+ pristine condition. Even all those crappy £1 WWF Dreamcast games you see all the time on eBay.


Plus, one big advantage with sealed games is ~ If a store decides to plater stickers all over it, or store it in a dirty environment, you know that the actual game inside the cellophane is in perfect condition.

I have sealed games with some horrible sticker residue on them, or marks on them ~ I then think to myself "What if this had not been sealed? These marks would be on the actual game case...



As for that white stcker on the top of PS2 games ~ Surely that is illegal? I was always led to believe that it was the CoA, and guarantees the authenticity of the game. It also has a laser code on it too Etc. It is also there to prevent tampering or pirating. I can't see the sense in Sony doing away with it??? :/


The main point I am making is ~ All other companies PSP games are sealed in cellophane with the PSP tear strip. Konami games aren't. What I would like to know is: What is the reason behind this? Why do they go out of their way to break from the "Norm"?


As for buying direct from a store ~ The reason I buy on eBay is because the stores can't supply me with what I want, and to a lesser degree, at a competative price to that which I can get the same game on eBay. Why should I pay £39.99 for a game I can get for about £25 on eBay?

In fact, chances are higher that the store would have unsealed games, as many unseal them for display on shelves. Luckily, I have a few contacts who will keep certain games to on side when they get their deliveries, so for certain games I pre-order, I am guaranteed a sealed copy from the shop.

[KJN]

Over here most stores removes the shrinkwrap, puts the discs and manual in a drawer and put the empty boxes on the shelves. You can sometimes see a guy behind the counter sitting and removing the shrinkwrap on a mountain of games.

[Windy Miller]

I'll raise my hand up, here & now admit that I will always look for a sealed copy of a game over an unsealed one, money permitting of course. I do this because I like to have the game in perfect condition, however, all my games are opened & played. They'll never sit on a shelf still sealed.

If it's an older game that has to be got from eBay, then I'll bide my time & wait for a sealed copy or at the very least a copy in good condition. If it's a game that I really, really want asap, then I'll get whatever's going, as long as it's complete.

When I picked up my GC on PAL launch day, all my games were sealed except for SMB, which had obviously been played before, so days later I took it back & got a sealed version.

Also when I picked up my PSP, I asked for a sealed copy of Metal Gear Ac!d, but was told that none of the copies were sealed, however I knew that my copy was brand new just by looking at it. Therefore, I was still a happy bunny.

I very rarely buy from retail stores nowadays (due to the daft prices) but when I do, I'll always insist on getting a factory sealed copy of the game. If it's an older game, I'll get the shop assistant to trawl through the stockroom until he finds one !

If you really do have to have sealed games all the time, then surely the answer is to preorder online the second the game comes out. That way it'll never be pre played.

So, overall, it is strange that one company doesn't seal their PAL games, but I'm certainly not going to get hot & bothered under the collar.

Just a further note GP. Please don't start this topic over at Games tm. I don't think the forum & it's members could stand it... ;)

[neuropolitique]

I voted game are meant to be played.

I've said before that sealed collections are the saddest collections. But I have other reasons for disliking sealed collections, the condition of my games.

Long ago my father told me to never store my albums with the shrinkwrap still on them. The plastic restricts airflow, so any moisture that gets between the shrinkwrap and the album would get trapped. I'm too paranoid to allow that to happen to my games.

BTW Gemini-Phoenix, do you have a red PS2?

[swlovinist]

I am sorry for those who collect sealed games. I play my gmaes, so it does not affect me. The only thing that I think about is buying a game without a seal, only to find that it is not new :( . Now that, would piss me off.

[Daria]

As for that white stcker on the top of PS2 games ~ Surely that is illegal? I was always led to believe that it was the CoA, and guarantees the authenticity of the game. It also has a laser code on it too Etc. It is also there to prevent tampering or pirating. I can't see the sense in Sony doing away with it??? :/

I'm glad Sony's doing away with the security stickers. Every once in awhile I'd buy a sealed game only to find that the security sticker is covering a small strip if the inside insert, peeling it off always rips off a layer of paint. (

(Suikoden 3... minutes before my bf droped a power drill on it... actually that game was probably doomed from the start.)

I would have prefered Sony to move the security sticker to the side of the case, where Microsoft keeps them, but this works too.

[Leo_A]

"As for that white stcker on the top of PS2 games ~ Surely that is illegal?"

lol

I don't think that there are laws that govern that games have to be sealed a specific way, or at all. LOL

[Gemini-Phoenix]

"As for that white sticker on the top of PS2 games ~ Surely that is illegal?"

lol

I don't think that there are laws that govern that games have to be sealed a specific way, or at all. LOL

I then went on to mention how it is technically a certificate of authentication. Perhaps maybe "Illegal" was the wrong word to use, but I know Microsoft take it very seriously if games are sold without their specific CoA's down the side of their PC / Xbox games...

In the UK all we have is a simple PlayStation hologram to prove that the game is the genuine article. This is exactly what the white sticker on the top of US games is. Without it, how do you know, how can you be 100% certain that the game you are buying is legit?



I would have prefered Sony to move the security sticker to the side of the case, where Microsoft keeps them, but this works too.

Agreed. These seals are there for a very good reason. I can't see what they gain from doing away with them. Still, a game sealed like this is at least a step in the right direction, although I do prefer my games to be sealed in their original cellophane to A) Prevent the item getting shop soiled, and B) I know it has not been tampered with in any way.

Example I: Halo II Collector's Edition (In tin case) ~ If the game has it's cellophane removed, chances are the tin can get easially scratched in storage. And who would be happy buying a game with a scratched case? At least the cellophane protects it to a certain degree.

Example II: GameBoy / N64 games et al. ~ Cardboard box's. At least if they are sealed they don't get all soiled and dog-eared.

Example III: GameCube games ~ Many come with Nintendo VIP Stars inside. If the game is sealed, you are guaranteed that they are untouched and present. If the game is sold to you "New" but unsealed, chances are someone could have removed these, along with perhaps any other paraphenalia which also accompanies the manual...



I am sorry for those who collect sealed games. I play my gmaes, so it does not affect me. The only thing that I think about is buying a game without a seal, only to find that it is not new :( . Now that, would piss me off.

Whether or not you collect the games or play them, it is nice to know what you are getting is in fact new. Many game stores allow their staff to "Borrow" titles (Like renting, but free of charge as a perk of the job) - These games are then put back into mainstream to be sold to the next sucker who pays their money for it.

I always make a point of asking for a sealed copy. (Well, not now as they know me pretty damn well in my town, so won't even bother insulting me if they know they don't have a sealed copy) If they don't have one, I just go elsewhere. And this is one reason why GAME have a £14million loss over the last year...

Some people are quite happy to hand over £40 and receive an unsealed game. To me, if I am spending my hard earned cash on something (Especially at that price) I want to ensure it has not been tampered with or anything. I even make a point of standing there inspecting every inch of the game for damage (Ie, crumpled corners or dents) before handing them my cash.



I voted game are meant to be played.

I've said before that sealed collections are the saddest collections. But I have other reasons for disliking sealed collections, the condition of my games.

Long ago my father told me to never store my albums with the shrinkwrap still on them. The plastic restricts airflow, so any moisture that gets between the shrinkwrap and the album would get trapped. I'm too paranoid to allow that to happen to my games.

BTW Gemini-Phoenix, do you have a red PS2?

Never heard of that. I guess it really depends on the atmosphere you keep them in. Obviously, if it's humid, then water will build up underneath, as it does on window's in the form of condensation. If you are careful about where and how you store them though, they should be Ok.

And this is one difference between cellophane and shrinkwrap (Remember, one's a polymer, the other is not) ~ Shrinkwrap (Or "Heat wrap" as it is sometimes known) does have a tendency to "Cling" to whatever it is wrapping. It will also stretch if it comes into contact with something (Ie, a sharp edge) or shrink if it comes into contact with heat, causing it to eventually tear and stretch. It also has a tendency to build up moisture underneath it.

Cellophane is different though. As it is not a polymer, it keeps it's form constantly, and does not shrink under heat. It can also withstand a higher temperature before melting (If you have ever tried burning cellophane and shrinkwrap)


And yes, I do indeed have a red PS2. Very astute! ;)



I'll raise my hand up, here & now admit that I will always look for a sealed copy of a game over an unsealed one, money permitting of course. I do this because I like to have the game in perfect condition, however, all my games are opened & played. They'll never sit on a shelf still sealed.

If it's an older game that has to be got from eBay, then I'll bide my time & wait for a sealed copy or at the very least a copy in good condition. If it's a game that I really, really want asap, then I'll get whatever's going, as long as it's complete.

When I picked up my GC on PAL launch day, all my games were sealed except for SMB, which had obviously been played before, so days later I took it back & got a sealed version.

Also when I picked up my PSP, I asked for a sealed copy of Metal Gear Ac!d, but was told that none of the copies were sealed, however I knew that my copy was brand new just by looking at it. Therefore, I was still a happy bunny.

I very rarely buy from retail stores nowadays (due to the daft prices) but when I do, I'll always insist on getting a factory sealed copy of the game. If it's an older game, I'll get the shop assistant to trawl through the stockroom until he finds one !

If you really do have to have sealed games all the time, then surely the answer is to preorder online the second the game comes out. That way it'll never be pre played.

So, overall, it is strange that one company doesn't seal their PAL games, but I'm certainly not going to get hot & bothered under the collar.

Just a further note GP. Please don't start this topic over at Games tm. I don't think the forum & it's members could stand it... ;)

So, seems you do understand the way I think after all! :wink:

Just the difference is, I have no time to play mine, so they stay in that condition until I am finally ready to play them. It's quite an accident that much of my collection is sealed still, with only my DC and N-Gage collections intentionally staying like that for a reason. The rest is just like that due to no time to play.


And I promise not to start this over there. Besides, I don't know how i'd cope getting around the "Don't talk about sealed games" ban...! Lol! ;)



Over here most stores removes the shrinkwrap, puts the discs and manual in a drawer and put the empty boxes on the shelves. You can sometimes see a guy behind the counter sitting and removing the shrinkwrap on a mountain of games.

Ditto. Same goes on over here for "Security reasons". Means your manual is certain to get creased and have fingerprints over, and the disc will have been fondled and possibly played. It is then also impossible to tell whether or not it has been sold, played, and brought back and resold.

HMV have since learnt that too many people are saying "If it's not sealed, it's not new", so they have been trying their best to make sure that more and more stuff is sold this way. In the last year, my HMV has quadrupled the amout of sealed items they sell (Mainly Dvd's and games)

And has anyone else noticed that Cd companies are also following suit, and sealing their products now? So it's not just me, it is a ever-growing phenomenon, and something these companies are getting wise to...



I read through the entire topic and found it quite interesting how everyone seems to have such a huge problem with collecting sealed games. From the developers standpoint, games are meant to be played. But so are comics meant to be read, action figures to be played with and stamps meant to be mailed. But that doesn't stop enthusiasts from keeping them in as pristine a condition as possible in their collections.

I just noticed some hostility towards Gemini-Phoenix and thought I shoud stand up for him a bit. One last thing, everyone check the homepage, and read the first line you see below the DP header. I think may enlighten a few.

Thank you very very much. Never have I read truer words on this subject. Yet no one mocks a collector of MOC vintage Star Wars figures (And I know there is at least one serious collector here, who is a senior member of DP)


And for those of you too lazy to go to the front page and read, here is what Vectorman0 is referring to. It says:

Video Game Collectors and "Retrogamers" UNITE!

These are Joe's words. These words say it all.

:)

[Griking]

Think about it for a sec...

How does shrink wrapping their games benefit KONAMI?

Sure, it benefits ebay sellers, because they can make a profit if a game becomes rare. Why should Konami pay the manufacturers a few extra cents per game (times a few hundred thousand or a million...) so that somebody else can make a profit?

Well, I think that shrinkwrapping helps a lot security-wise. If a game was released unshrinkwrapped wouldn't it be too easy for copies to be stolen or even fall out of its case by accident if it were dropped?

[Windy Miller]

So, seems you do understand the way I think after all! :wink:



Don't be getting too cozy my man ! LOL

I'm actually the same when I buy a magazine, book or even a newspaper. I'm sure the staff at my local WHSmith wonder what the heck I'm doing picking up every magazine & scrutinizing it for 30 mins before making my choice.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

Think about it for a sec...

How does shrink wrapping their games benefit KONAMI?

Sure, it benefits ebay sellers, because they can make a profit if a game becomes rare. Why should Konami pay the manufacturers a few extra cents per game (times a few hundred thousand or a million...) so that somebody else can make a profit?

Well, I think that shrinkwrapping helps a lot security-wise. If a game was released unshrinkwrapped wouldn't it be too easy for copies to be stolen or even fall out of its case by accident if it were dropped?

It does help security wise. Ie, it is less common that another game will end up in the wrong box, or instruction manuals will go missing. I know my local GameStation has trouble keeping track of all their pre-owned games they keep in the drawer, and can hardly ever find the one they need.

Plus, some shops that sell pre-owned games do have a habit of mixing up a Platinum disc inside a black label box, and vice versa.



Don't be getting too cozy my man !

I'm actually the same when I buy a magazine, book or even a newspaper. I'm sure the staff at my local WHSmith wonder what the heck I'm doing picking up every magazine & scrutinizing it for 30 mins before making my choice.

Welcome to my world dude! Welcome to my world! ;) :)

[Aussie2B]

You know what's funny? Somehow, before I even clicked to open this topic, I knew this was going to be about sealed games. Gemini-Phoenix is getting as predictable with talking about sealed games as that one guy is with talking about RGB and his TV set-up. Then again, when you can't play the majority of your collection, I guess you don't have much to do besides stare at it on a shelf and annoy other people about constantly about how all your games are sealed or about buying more sealed games.

Honestly, you sound like a germophobe to me. It's fine that some people like to collect sealed games, even if I think it's kind of dumb, but your reasons, where you go into detail about people possibly touching your games, sound neurotic. Are you the type who can't ever share anything with anyone?

Anyway, it's idiotic to suggest Konami are being bastards or discriminating against anyone because they don't seal some games. You should feel fortunate that the UK is even getting those games. There are a ton of great games that Konami has left it Japan, and I, for one, appreciate it when they bring good games over, even if they do decide to not seal them in plastic. Heck, the UK has gotten many great Konami games that the US hasn't, like most of the TwinBee series.

[Daria]

You know what's funny? Somehow, before I even clicked to open this topic, I knew this was going to be about sealed games. Gemini-Phoenix is getting as predictable with talking about sealed games as that one guy is with talking about RGB and his TV set-up.

Now that you mention it he even does the too much space/too many paragraphs thing that Anthony1 does.

[Leo_A]

"Ditto. Same goes on over here for "Security reasons". Means your manual is certain to get creased and have fingerprints over, and the disc will have been fondled and possibly played. It is then also impossible to tell whether or not it has been sold, played, and brought back and resold."

We're not Howard Hughes. They're not there folding your manual up to put creases in it, they just put it in the case. And who cares if the disc has been touched, if it's clean, undamaged, and works, that's all the matters.

[Policenaut]

the only games I keep sealed are the GBA version, as I have other methods of playing 'em. Otherwise I unwrap the games to play them. So I say that doesn't affect me at all.

[Wavelflack]

"I think there is still a certain stigmatism"


LOL