HDTV and gaming - It's gonna happen!

[Anthony1]

As I predicted almost a year ago, the console systems of the future are going to agressively pursue High Definition gaming.


Microsoft recently announced that the XBOX Next is going to have some specific requirements for all it's games from a audio/visual standpoint. Pretty damn high minimum specs if you ask me.


J.Allard kept talking about how gaming is moving into the "HD era". The era of HDTV's and video games. Supposedly the minimum requirement for resolution is going to be 720p. Also, supposedly every single game is going to actually be programed in a 16:9 widescreen ratio! Pretty amazing, considering the vast majority of TV's that are out there are still 4:3. Apparently the games will be programed in a native 16:9 anamorphic image, but most games will also feature a 4:3 mode for regular TV's, but it's funny that the 4:3 picture is actually the one that is going to be somewhat distorted, rather than the widescreen one.

Also, every game is required to have Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.



I have played some HDTV games on the current XBOX, games like MVP Baseball and Amped 2, and both of those games look absolutely amazing, but I think that the HDTV games that are coming for the XBOX 2 are probably so freaking advanced beyond that, that it will just be ridiculous.


I'm excited about seeing a game that uses the maximum HDTV signal. 1920 x 1080i. That is going to be freaking ridiculous.

[SoulBlazer]

And I agree it's about time. Now that I have both a HDTV Widescreen TV and a 5.1 speaker sound system, I want games to USE all that stuff! It's one reason I bought a used XBox about a year ago, and why I buy all my multi-platform games for it if I can help.

Some PS2 games are starting to use widescreen/progressive support -- Star Ocean 3 blew me away with that -- but right now it's still mostly XBox.

[Joelius]

Thats awesome about the Xbox Next, but for the people still in the fossil age of tv's (like myself) its kinda a turn off knowing my picture would be distorted. Time to buy myself a new tv.

[NintendoMan]

And I agree it's about time. Now that I have both a HDTV Widescreen TV and a 5.1 speaker sound system, I want games to USE all that stuff!

Yes, it would be great, but not enough people have that stuff so it really would be murder on their part if it was REQUIRED to play the games. I'm sure it's not completely required this go around from XBOX! There's just no way.

Also SoulBlazer, what TV do you play your retro games on? Not emulatedj ones on your XBOX either, the actual systems with the actual games? :D

[gamegirl79]

If I'm going to be required to have an HDTV to play games, then I guess I won't be buying any new systems/games for awhile. HDTV's are still too expensive for me.

How nice of them to offer me a distorted picture in the meantime though... :roll:

[kainemaxwell]

If I'm going to be required to have an HDTV to play games, then I guess I won't be buying any new systems/games for awhile. HDTV's are still too expensive for me.

How nice of them to offer me a distorted picture in the meantime though... :roll:

same here, just got a new TV a few years ago too. x_x

[imanerd0011]

Will the games still run on a old regular tv without dolby 5.1 sound? If not, I think that Microsoft is making a big mistake. They have many customers that only have enough money to buy the systems and some games, and really can't afford to pick up a new TV while they are at it.

[Half Japanese]

Will the games still run on a old regular tv without dolby 5.1 sound? If not, I think that Microsoft is making a big mistake. They have many customers that only have enough money to buy the systems and some games, and really can't afford to pick up a new TV while they are at it.


I fail to see the "big mistake" here. Check out any of the Xbox 720p games and you'll see why making that a standard is great. Also, at the moment, most Xbox games already support 5.1 surround. I'll be excited to see what they do with the widescreen though, since it's the oddest choice of the three.

[TheRedEye]

The rest of Allard's keynote consisted of him clenching his fists and screaming in German about how games are going to cost a billion dollars to produce and if you don't have a billion dollars you will die. God I hated that keynote.

[yuppicide]

I don't agree with the "vast majority of tv's out there aren't hd" type comment. Most people I know nowadays have HD widescreen. It's mostly all that is sold. If you go in Circuit City there's NO bigscreen TV's anymore that aren't widescreen.

[SoulBlazer]

Right, I know many XBox games allready have the best options for widescreen/progressive and 5.1 speaker support. That's why I buy for the system as much as I can, such as the two new baseball games.

The TV? I bought it last September, when I was still gainfully employed. I could have gotten a nice projection TV for cheaper, but I finally settled on a Sony 32 inch Trinton HDTV widescreen model. I'm not using the HD part of it to watch any cable yet -- the TV is in the living room and I do most of my TV watching on a older 19 inch in my room. My roommates love using it, though. ;) The three consoles and the DVD/VCR players are hooked up to the monster TV as well.

And due to money problems I don't have any consoles anymore besides the current three and the GBA SP -- I play emulators on my PC. ;) At least I have actuall controllers hooked up to the PC (NES, SNES, and Genesis) :P

Yes, it was rather pricey and I'm still paying it off but it's worth it. :)

[alexkidd2000]

You guys are getting confused here. Just because it supports high def widescreen and 5.1 doesnt mean it wont work on all tvs. All the current 720p 5.1 Xbox games work fine on an old school TV, they just look and sound way better on an HD TV. There wont be any distoriton, I am sure most if not all games will have a full screen option. If they dont, it will just be letterboxed like widescreen DVDs are on a normal TV.

Its really time for everyone to start upgrading their TV sets. HD is here to stay so you may as well get onboard and enjoy the fabulous picture quality. I love my 51" HDTV for games!

[LocalH]

Besides, since most TVs of recent vintage have at least S-Video, if not analog component, the picture will be that much better than a standard composite downconversion (with all the included chroma crawl and lower luminance bandwidth). HD content downconverted to 480i and displayed with at least S-Video still looks fucking awesome (even more so with component). I wouldn't be surprised if the next-gen consoles at least include composite+S-Video in the box (and perhaps component as well, the same cable should be able to support both 480i and HD resolutions, given the TV can handle them).

It'll probably be a setting in the BIOS menu, similar to the systems of today. You'll likely be able to set 4:3 fullscreen, 4:3 letterboxed, or 16:9 anamorphic for downconverted output (although I don't know how useful the 4:3 fullscreen setting will be unless the games are specifically coded to take this into account when positioning HUD graphics). You'll also likely be able to set SD or HD resolutions on the component output. Since HD resolutions are natively 16:9, the latter setting will likely override the former setting on the component outputs - the only situation I see that could be an issue are with 4:3 direct view CRT HD sets (but don't they letterbox 16:9 content anyway? I don't have one so I don't know).

[K3V]

An anamorphic 16:9 option would be excellent for my standard definition Sony WEGA - it has the ability to display anamorphic DVD's as an option in the menus. Looks great on DVD's and I'm sure it would work great with games too.

[NintendoMan]

Its really time for everyone to start upgrading their TV sets. HD is here to stay so you may as well get onboard and enjoy the fabulous picture quality. I love my 51" HDTV for games!

Trust me, I am going to be doing that sometime this year. I just don't know what I will play my vintage games on then though.

BUT, try telling that to the other millions of people, that aren't like us here on that site, that they have to spend big $$$ and have to get an HDTV! Just won't happen, not in this generation of systems. Now in the future sometime, I am sure HDTV will be a standard. But for M$ to do thatthis generation is ludicrious.

[Sulaco22]

I'm excited about seeing a game that uses the maximum HDTV signal. 1920 x 1080i. That is going to be freaking ridiculous.


Actually the highest defition format is 1080p. Most TVs don't support it because there isn't any 1080p media in the U.S.

[le geek]

That's cool that it will be supported, but for people like myself who got a 36" Sony WEGA a while back, I don't see a new HDTV in my future. if it sends an Anamorphic signal that would be cool though...

And to the point, I wonder how many folks are going to buy HD DVDs when they come out? It seems too early to have to buy movies again...

Guess I'm a luddite!

Cheers,
Ben

[Bluteg]

Sony makes 36" WEGA TVs that can do 1080i/720p and they are like $999 or less on sale. The 1080i is the ideal resolution when looking for an HDTV, and most cheap plasma TVs do not do 1080i so avoid them.

[SoulBlazer]

Right, my TV was $1600 and that's cause I went for a LOT of bells and whistles on mine. It also included the $200 stand.

The prices have REALLY come down in the last year, and many people should be able to afford one, if not now, then next year.

[Anthony1]

Sony makes 36" WEGA TVs that can do 1080i/720p and they are like $999 or less on sale. The 1080i is the ideal resolution when looking for an HDTV, and most cheap plasma TVs do not do 1080i so avoid them.



Actually, getting a HDTV that does 1080i is a given, the key is getting one that will actually "natively" display a true 720p picture. Most HDTV's will accept a 720p picture, but it will convert it to 1080i and then display it. Some will actually downcovert it to 480p and display it. I have a Sony 51 widescreen HDTV, and when it get's a 720p picture, it converts it to 480p which sucks!

So if you can get one that will actually natively display the full 720p, then that is what you want.

Luckily I have another HDTV that will display 720p and I have a movie theater screen that will display HDTV.

[Bluteg]

Actually, getting a HDTV that does 1080i is a given, the key is getting one that will actually "natively" display a true 720p picture. Most HDTV's will accept a 720p picture, but it will convert it to 1080i and then display it. Some will actually downcovert it to 480p and display it. I have a Sony 51 widescreen HDTV, and when it get's a 720p picture, it converts it to 480p which sucks!

So if you can get one that will actually natively display the full 720p, then that is what you want.

Luckily I have another HDTV that will display 720p and I have a movie theater screen that will display HDTV.

One thing that I think will hurt the standardization of HD signals is that the wide variety of HDTVs is very confusing too many people. There are tons of crazy myths allready. I've repeatedly seen people in Circuit City/Best Buy being told that those cheap plasma TVs are HDTV by employees. Unfortunatly these are EDTV and only have a max resolution of 720. These people are going to be pissed when they find out their new $2000-$3000 TV will not be able to use the high-def channels and Blu-Ray/HD-DVDs for what they are intended.

Anthony1, I've seen X-men Legends and Amped 2 for Xbox in true 720p and its freaking amazing.

[Anthony1]

Anthony1, I've seen X-men Legends and Amped 2 for Xbox in true 720p and its freaking amazing.



Word Skippy!


You should also see the MVP Baseballs from E.A. Sports and NBA Ballers and also True Crime.

all are 720p and look amazing.

[imanerd0011]

You guys are getting confused here. Just because it supports high def widescreen and 5.1 doesnt mean it wont work on all tvs. All the current 720p 5.1 Xbox games work fine on an old school TV, they just look and sound way better on an HD TV. There wont be any distoriton, I am sure most if not all games will have a full screen option. If they dont, it will just be letterboxed like widescreen DVDs are on a normal TV.

Its really time for everyone to start upgrading their TV sets. HD is here to stay so you may as well get onboard and enjoy the fabulous picture quality. I love my 51" HDTV for games!

Thank you for answering my question. I wasn't sure if having an HDTV+Dolby 5.1 was required, or it just improved the whole experience. I personally don't have a HDTV or anything, I still play my NES on a 10 year old 25".

[Sylentwulf]

Not really a surprise since the FCC is mandating that all TV be broadcast in HD format very soon (beginning of, or end of next year, forget which). They released the deadline a year or 2 ago.

[NintendoMan]

Not really a surprise since the FCC is mandating that all TV be broadcast in HD format very soon (beginning of, or end of next year, forget which). They released the deadline a year or 2 ago.

Yeah, but even if they broadcast in HD format won't a normal picture still show up on NON-HD tv's?

I mean there would just be know way that the FCC would then make millions up people that don't have HD tv to go buy them! (I have heard this before though, about the mandating of HD coming)

[NintendoMan]

And to the point, I wonder how many folks are going to buy HD DVDs when they come out? It seems too early to have to buy movies again

Yeah, I don't think I am ready to replace my 125+ DVD collection right now. I will however maybe pick up a few HD DVD's or whatever they will be for the CLASSIC movie's that I just have to have, even if I already own it on DVD. Like The Goonies and Terminator 2. :)

[Sylentwulf]

Not really a surprise since the FCC is mandating that all TV be broadcast in HD format very soon (beginning of, or end of next year, forget which). They released the deadline a year or 2 ago.

Yeah, but even if they broadcast in HD format won't a normal picture still show up on NON-HD tv's?

I mean there would just be know way that the FCC would then make millions up people that don't have HD tv to go buy them! (I have heard this before though, about the mandating of HD coming)

I don't see how the picture is going to be distorted for xbox games. Do you mean it'll be squished on non widescreen TV's? As opposed to have widescreen people having to deal with stretched out images? Fine with me :)

[LocalH]

Not really a surprise since the FCC is mandating that all TV be broadcast in HD format very soon (beginning of, or end of next year, forget which). They released the deadline a year or 2 ago.
No, they're not. They only mandate that all stations' terrestrial broadcast be digital - they have absolutely no requirement for HD. The station I work for broadcasts one HD channel and two standard-def (SD) digital stations within their 19Mbps allotment.

And digital broadcasts, whether SD or HD (or even extended-def, which is 480p), will NOT be viewable without a digital ATSC tuner - PERIOD. This only applies to off-air reception, as cable and satellite HD uses a different encoding (QAM as opposed to ATSC), and thus the receiver is already provided as part of the HD subscription. However, there are ATSC tuners with analog outputs (we use two of these to monitor the HD and one of the SD streams, the second SD stream is the same content as the HD stream, just in SD). So, you might have to spend a bit of money to view off-air broadcasts after the FCC's deadline, but you don't absolutely have to buy a whole HD set. In fact, I'm surprised that there's not a larger selection of lower-priced SD sets with inbuilt ATSC tuners.

[Anthony1]

I don't see how the picture is going to be distorted for xbox games. Do you mean it'll be squished on non widescreen TV's? As opposed to have widescreen people having to deal with stretched out images? Fine with me :)


Well, here is the thing. content, whether movies or TV or video games are either natively 4:3 or natively 16:9. When ever you watch 4:3 stuff on a widescreen, or widescreen stuff on a 4:3, you get a distorted picture to some degree, due to the fact that the particular ratio isn't desinged for that type of TV, and vice versa.

Now, 16:9 stuff on a regular TV can be shown in letterbox, and technically it isn't distorted, but it kinda sucks to use such a small portion of the screen. So it's kinda a downside for people with non widescreen TV's.

Also, on a widescreen TV, you can watch stuff in 4:3, but you get black (or even worse Grey) bars on the sides of the screen, instead of top and bottom like letterbox. So it won't be distorted in that mode, but you get those damn bars.

Now, certainly alot of TV's will give you the option to stretch and squeaze and alter the picture to fill the screen, but whenever you have to do that, you are adding even more distortion to it. Sometimes the end result is quite fine, and not that big of a deal.


But the bottom line with all this bullshit, is the fact that games are actually going to be designed in a "WIDESCREEN" world. Not the old square TV world. And that is pretty damn sweet. It's going to be very interesting to see what developers do, when they are thinking in the "Widescreen" mode, for their games.

You know what's interesting? The PSP is going to be a 16:9 system as well. So developers that work on the PSP, will start to get used to working specifically in that mind frame. They should have a better grasp of taking advantage of a true widescreen perspective.

[The Manimal]

As I predicted almost a year ago, the console systems of the future are going to agressively pursue High Definition gaming.


Microsoft recently announced that the XBOX Next is going to have some specific requirements for all it's games from a audio/visual standpoint. Pretty damn high minimum specs if you ask me.


J.Allard kept talking about how gaming is moving into the "HD era". The era of HDTV's and video games. Supposedly the minimum requirement for resolution is going to be 720p. Also, supposedly every single game is going to actually be programed in a 16:9 widescreen ratio! Pretty amazing, considering the vast majority of TV's that are out there are still 4:3. Apparently the games will be programed in a native 16:9 anamorphic image, but most games will also feature a 4:3 mode for regular TV's, but it's funny that the 4:3 picture is actually the one that is going to be somewhat distorted, rather than the widescreen one.

Also, every game is required to have Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.



I have played some HDTV games on the current XBOX, games like MVP Baseball and Amped 2, and both of those games look absolutely amazing, but I think that the HDTV games that are coming for the XBOX 2 are probably so freaking advanced beyond that, that it will just be ridiculous.


I'm excited about seeing a game that uses the maximum HDTV signal. 1920 x 1080i. That is going to be freaking ridiculous.


1080p is better than 1080i.

[LocalH]

Ugh, I'd rather see 720p over 1080i. Interlacing sucks donkey anus. 1080p if the set can handle it.

[Anthony1]

Ugh, I'd rather see 720p over 1080i. Interlacing sucks donkey anus. 1080p if the set can handle it.


Although 720p is progressive, rather than interlaced, 1080i has much more visual information in the signal. It has like 40 percent more pixels displayed or something like that.

You have to remember that 1080i = 1920 x 1080 interlaced.


As for 1080p, slowly back away from that crack pipe. I don't know of a single display that can actually resolve 1080p that is less than about 30 grand.


In other words, it will be 2012 before "the great unwashed" get's their chance at being able to afford 1080p displays.

[kingpong]

As for 1080p, slowly back away from that crack pipe. I don't know of a single display that can actually resolve 1080p that is less than about 30 grand.

In other words, it will be 2012 before "the great unwashed" get's their chance at being able to afford 1080p displays.

Dell had their 2405FP LCD monitor (1920x1200 native) for under $900 last week. At 24 inches it isn't big enough to be useful for most purposes, but at least it shows that 1080P displays don't need to be expensive.

[Anthony1]

As for 1080p, slowly back away from that crack pipe. I don't know of a single display that can actually resolve 1080p that is less than about 30 grand.

In other words, it will be 2012 before "the great unwashed" get's their chance at being able to afford 1080p displays.

Dell had their 2405FP LCD monitor (1920x1200 native) for under $900 last week. At 24 inches it isn't big enough to be useful for most purposes, but at least it shows that 1080P displays don't need to be expensive.


I guarantee that the LCD monitor is simply line doubling 1080i to make it 1080p.


I'm talking about "native" 1080p displays.

[LocalH]

Ugh, I'd rather see 720p over 1080i. Interlacing sucks donkey anus. 1080p if the set can handle it.


Although 720p is progressive, rather than interlaced, 1080i has much more visual information in the signal. It has like 40 percent more pixels displayed or something like that.

You have to remember that 1080i = 1920 x 1080 interlaced.
For still images (or very low motion), you're correct. But for high motion, each field only has 540 scanlines. (remember, 720p is 60 full 720 line frames per second while 1080i is only 60 540-line fields per second). Horizontally, 1080i wins. But given the line-based nature of video on anything but an LCD (which likely interpolates anyway, given the oddball resolutions of many LCD screens), you won't notice much difference between 1280 and 1920 pixels per line.

[kingpong]

Dell had their 2405FP LCD monitor (1920x1200 native) for under $900 last week. At 24 inches it isn't big enough to be useful for most purposes, but at least it shows that 1080P displays don't need to be expensive.


I guarantee that the LCD monitor is simply line doubling 1080i to make it 1080p.


I'm talking about "native" 1080p displays.

Sure, it probably will line double 1080i, but that's what you get for sending an interlaced signal to a non-interlaced display. The display can handle 1080p natively. You hook it the monitor up to your PC, set your resolution to 1920x1200, and you have what you're looking for. It just needs to do some letterboxing and then it can display 1080P. Of course, you'd be hard pressed to find any real 1080P content, but the monitor could handle it. The monitor is 1920x1200 native. That's nothing special really, just a wider format than most other monitors with that much vertical resolution. 4:3 21 inch LCDs are 1600x1200 native, and they are the same physical vertical size as a 16:10 24 inch screen, so there's nothing exotic here.

[Raedon]

As I predicted almost a year ago, the console systems of the future are going to agressively pursue High Definition gaming.



That's not a prediction.. That is like saying, "one day, the water in this river will reach the ocean."

I've been playing HD games for a decade on my computer monitor (which is higher then HD now.)

[The Manimal]

Sharp's 45" Aquios and Samsung's 46" LCD TVs can display 1080p. They are both $8000.