How to make games for girls [Archive] - Retrogaming Roundtable

SoulBlazer

03-17-2005, 07:26 PM

Since the last thread about women and gaming has gone to hell, I'm going to try again, with a new topic, to see if we can get some inteligent and smart discussion here.

Pertend for a moment: You're in charge of a small gaming company breaking into the big scene. You want to make a game that both men and women will enjoy playing. You have in front of you all the research done on the topic, all the surveys, all the past efforts make games for women. But your company is bought by a larger company that is demanding that you publish a game that will bring in the women players in equal ammounts to men.

What kind of game do you make and how do you design it so that it apeals to both sexes?

TheRedEye

03-17-2005, 07:27 PM

I think Microsoft is right in saying that customization is key. Girls like to customize, and furthermore, they like to be social, so I'd start with multiplayer online.

GarrettCRW

03-17-2005, 07:35 PM

If the story is intelligent, the gameplay great, and characters (of both sexes) are compelling and non-exploitive (well, unless the story dictates such behavior), I think you'll please everyone, man and women.

Emily

03-17-2005, 07:39 PM

Guys are idiots.
I like games the way they are! A game geared towards girls has got to suck ballz. Give it a rest...

The other thread makes me want to cut out my eyes.

GarrettCRW

03-17-2005, 07:42 PM

:drinking:

Ahhh.....pain dulling goodness.

Emily

03-17-2005, 07:45 PM

:drinking:

Ahhh.....pain dulling goodness.

:shameful: :drinking:

Kroogah

03-17-2005, 07:46 PM

Seems like the most successful "girl games" in the history of video games were more "gender-neutral" than anything else. Pac-Man, Frogger, Centipede, Dig Dug, Q*Bert,Tetris, Bust-a-Move, Super Mario Bros., Pokemon, Parappa the Rapper, Katamari Damacy, Dance Dance Revolution...

Promophile

03-17-2005, 07:48 PM

As others said I believe it should have strong multiplayer support and social aspects. I think if your were trying to bring in girls at equal numbers MMORPGs would be the best bet. Just check out games like Everquest and for an even better example Ultima Online. Both have an extremely large number of female gamers compared to other types of games. Also a high degree of customizability is key, such as dyable armor, clothes, hairstyles, ect.
Another big thing would be the ability to succeed in the game without fighting monsters. A good example of this is Ultima Online where if you'd like you could collect gold, build a house, have a guild, and have a really fun time without even picking up a weapon but by tailoring, smithing, tinkering, ect.

GarrettCRW

03-17-2005, 07:49 PM

Emily

03-17-2005, 08:00 PM

Promophile

03-17-2005, 08:00 PM

Hey personally I find tailoring / smithing in MMORPG games and selling the products more fun than monster hunting... but to each their own.

Emily

03-17-2005, 08:03 PM

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please... x_x

punkoffgirl

03-17-2005, 08:05 PM

john_soper

03-17-2005, 08:06 PM

1. Update Custer's Revenge and Beat 'Em & Eat 'Em for 3d graphics
2. Add in some really intense FMV cutscenes
3. Send advance copies to NOW for review and publicity.

See, who says this sensitivity stuff is difficult?

Promophile

03-17-2005, 08:07 PM

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please... x_x

Tradeskills don't have to be boring. I appreciate being able to advance in a game without fighting. Look at games like Havest Moon. Your a farmer for gosh sakes! No fighting there yet it's a very popular franchise with both guys and girls (In Japan they even have versions of Harvest Moon for girls where you play as a girl and can marry guys). Games don't have to involve slaying monsters to be "fun". Just like at your avatar, DDR doesn't have fighting either!

Emily

03-17-2005, 08:09 PM

I hate DDR actually. I just like watching the bunny fall down...

Flack

03-17-2005, 08:12 PM

It doesn't matter what the game is, just put a cute mascot on the front and package it with a pink controller.

Promophile

03-17-2005, 08:14 PM

RPGs? Meh.

Give me puzzles to solve. Give me fighting games that I don't need to learn a lot of complicated combos to master. Give me goals to achieve. Give me rhythm games. And NEVER EVER EVER suggest more girls would play games if there were more games like Everquest. There are games like Everquest, and obviously, they aren't drawing them in, are they?

Everyone keeps mentioning that females like the online aspects, but HELLO! Do any of you realize how many guys are out there that play as female characters in online games? I think you're being fooled.

Heh yep of course a large portion of female characters are played by males. If all the female players in MMORPGs were female then they would make up probally 70 pecent of the population! I get my numbers however from studies that have shown that women actually make up the majority of online gamers (50.4%) so there has to be something about online games that attracts women gamers.

EDIT: Linkage

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/02/11/video.games.women.reut/

Captain Wrong

03-17-2005, 08:16 PM

Quintracker

03-17-2005, 08:42 PM

It doesn't matter what the game is, just put a cute mascot on the front and package it with a pink controller.

This man knows how to market a game for girls! :D

punkoffgirl

03-17-2005, 08:51 PM

Heh yep of course a large portion of female characters are played by males. If all the female players in MMORPGs were female then they would make up probally 70 pecent of the population! I get my numbers however from studies that have shown that women actually make up the majority of online gamers (50.4%) so there has to be something about online games that attracts women gamers.

EDIT: Linkage

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/02/11/video.games.women.reut/

That article says nothing about women being 50.4% of all online gamers. It says women over 40 spend 50% more time playing online games than men, but it doesn't say the men's age group, nor the average number of actual hours for either gender.

Before anyone else replies to this thread, I suggest you stand up from your computer, unzip and unbutton your pants, pull them down, and take a look at what's inside. Chances are, you're not a girl. Don't tell ME what kind of games I like to play.

o2william

03-17-2005, 09:09 PM

I'm only talking from my limited experiences here as a typical clueless male... I don't claim to really understand females, for they are complex creatues. But my impression is that females (and I'm speaking in MAJOR generalities here) aren't really into the wild and intense action games. I think they're more thoughtful and less visceral than men when it comes to gaming. So no super complex fighting moves, no twitch shooting, etc. Puzzlers are good. Turn-based games where you plan out your next move rather than relying on lightning reflexes are good. Games that have clearly defined, quickly achievable goals are good. If you have to play a game 3 hours before you feel you've made any progress, a woman is less likely to want to play it. Non-linearity is good. Challenge is fine, but not punishing difficulty. I don't think most women like having to repeat the same difficult level over and over again (really, who does?).

As for characters... I think gender-neutral or gender-equal is the only way to go. Every character (male or female) should be attractive, but not oversexed.

A little cuteness wouldn't hurt, if it's appropriate to the game. Darkness and bloodiness generally don't appeal to women like they do to us sicko males. I think they can abide some violence, but nothing over-the-top.

Why do women love Bust-A-Move so much? It's a cute, nonviolent puzzler where reactions have to be quick but not overwhelmingly so. Levels last a minute at the longest. It's perfect!

john_soper

03-17-2005, 09:20 PM

Before anyone else replies to this thread, I suggest you stand up from your computer, unzip and unbutton your pants, pull them down, and take a look at what's inside..
OK, giving it a try........ hmmm never noticed that before. Just what is that thing for anyway?

Seriously, wasn't either you or QoF playing Manhunt for awhile?

punkoffgirl

03-17-2005, 09:30 PM

Promophile

03-17-2005, 09:52 PM

Heh yep of course a large portion of female characters are played by males. If all the female players in MMORPGs were female then they would make up probally 70 pecent of the population! I get my numbers however from studies that have shown that women actually make up the majority of online gamers (50.4%) so there has to be something about online games that attracts women gamers.

EDIT: Linkage

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/fun.games/02/11/video.games.women.reut/

That article says nothing about women being 50.4% of all online gamers. It says women over 40 spend 50% more time playing online games than men, but it doesn't say the men's age group, nor the average number of actual hours for either gender.

Yea wong link. Here ya go

http://money.cnn.com/2000/12/14/technology/gaming/

Phosphor Dot Fossils

03-17-2005, 09:54 PM

Yea wong link. Here ya go
We really don't need people linking to their wongs around here. Thanks.

Just kidding.

Promophile

03-17-2005, 09:59 PM

it doesn't matter if your wong or wright.

SpasticFuctard

03-17-2005, 10:34 PM

Hero's Quest, Kings Quest, Space Quest, Grim Fandango, Zelda...

These games and their sucessors. They owned, both genders flocked to them. The RPG/Adventure game breaks barriers, it tears down walls, it makes people friends, it humps your long sex starved granny.

Oh wait, that's my personal favorite long dead genre...

Hell if I know, but what I do know is it doesn't involve girls with thath freshly fucked look.

Maybe Boonga Boonga?

DynastyLawyer

03-17-2005, 10:53 PM

Since the last thread about women and gaming has gone to hell, I'm going to try again, with a new topic, to see if we can get some inteligent and smart discussion here.

You need to chill on that other thread, man. That thread is a classic.

No fighting monsters??? Tailoring!!!????

That is soooo stupid! Unbelievable....

I encounter guys like you in Star Wars Galaxies all the time. All you do is fight, look down on any profession that doesn't have anything to do with slicing or blasting away an opponent, and cry about how the game is "repetitive" and "boring."

Needless to say, I'm not impressed with your logic at all.

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please...

Exactly. Best way to get a girl into a game is to get a guy into a game. End of story. I'll be damned if my girlfriend couldn't slice through an army of flood in Halo 2 with a plasma sword.

And basically, the best games period. Build it well, and they will come....

My hero.

soniko_karuto

03-18-2005, 12:14 AM

Ah, at least this thread is civilezed.

I just want to agree on what the second post said, it's all about cuztomization. For example, in pso, girls almost always have small chars, or very thin and very tall, but every now and then, you see the average female hunter, the one who cares hell if it is sexist or some crap like that (hell, a lot of girls play male chars on MMORPGs).

I really don't care what people play like, if it represents their gender or not. It's about having a fun time doing what you like. It's not like anyone has complained about playing a yoshi game (i mean, we don't know if it's a he or she, and no one cares).

So, just let people choose. Simple as that. We aren't here to judge anyone. Hey if your a feminist, your call. We all have something to fight for, as i, for one, don't like the way discrimination against blacks/mexicans work.But that doesn't mean i can have fun on videogames killing whatever thing of whatever color jumps in front of me.

Also asian chicks kick ass.

LAGO

03-18-2005, 12:17 AM

From what little experience I have on the subject women are attracted more towards puzzle type games, generally. I also believe they tend to go towards games that have a somewhat social setting, this last statement is speculation on my part.

Using those two tidbits of information I think a co-op game that had action-mixed in with puzzles could go over real well with women.

Example. Man and woman team has to break into a secure building that happens to be locked by a keypad. Along the way clues where collected as to what the code was ... one person holds off the encircling troop while another wrestles with the puzzle via some split screen co-op madness.

It gets both male and female involved and hits on the xrazy action that most men enjoy while throwing in the puzzle aspects that tends to attract female gamers. A good story is a must also.

NE146

03-18-2005, 01:04 AM

Man there is no more obvious game for girls than Beat Em and Eat em! I mean you control chicks. And it's right up every chick's alley (no it's not shopping), but rather they're rushing around trying to catch and eat the dude's man juice. A simple yet universally appealing female concept they can all relate to. They feel like they are part of the game. 100% for ch1x. :)

Queen Of The Felines

03-18-2005, 01:19 AM

Seriously, wasn't either you or QoF playing Manhunt for awhile?

That was me, but I never finished it because it got boring after awhile. Hide in shadow, make a noise, wait for guy to come close, wait for guy to turn around, sneak up behind him, WHAM, repeat.

I have played through Resident Evil 4 about three times now. I LOVE the sniper rifle. :D

Kristine

Aussie2B

03-18-2005, 01:54 AM

I couldn't care less about socializing in games (or really, in real life either unless it's amusing or intelligent conversation instead of the rambling blather and gossip many women seem to enjoy). The only socializing I care to do in games is having my characters talk to NPCs, so I can learn more about what to do and what's going on in the plot. If it's a real person, forget about it.

Absolutely don't care for online gaming either. Either give me a good game I can enjoy by myself or something that I can enjoy with 1-3 friends at home.

I don't especially care for puzzle games... I like music games even less... not a big fan of Pac-Man... I love a great challenge, though... and gimme a good action game and I'm a happy girl.

I like good games. Period. Maybe the fact that I'm a girl plays a role in why sports and FPSs are my least favorite genres, but my boyfriend doesn't like those genres either. It's more an aspect of my personality than a gender thing.

As a woman that's aiming to get into the industry and could very likely be making games someday, I don't expect to put any effort into getting women to like my games. I'll just try my hardest to create a game that I personally find enjoyable, and if I do, then I imagine other people, both male and female, would too.

atomicthumbs

03-18-2005, 03:32 AM

Well... In my experience, I have found that girls love those adorable Pokemon. Though most girls have expressed that they aren't really very comfortable in a "Stadium" setting.

Now, if the games took place in a more familiar setting...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/atomicthumbs/BULBAKITCHEN.jpg

Cha-CHING! I smell money (the kind that would otherwise be spent on feminine hygene products)!

poloplayr

03-18-2005, 06:38 AM

make a game about shopping, gossip and make-up. or how about facing the truth: games are for boys.

move on, people.

Lady Jaye

03-18-2005, 09:30 AM

make a game about shopping, gossip and make-up. or how about facing the truth: games are for boys.

move on, people.

Gee, thanks for the compliments to me and the other girl gamers here. So, are you implying that we're less of a woman for playing videogames? Sheesh. :roll:

Some very good points were made in this thread, most importantly that gender-neutrality and customization of character do a whole lot to attract girl gamers.

I can't speak for other women, but I love sports games. I love RPGs. I love music and rhythm games. And Pok�mon (although it got old fast). I also love action games and horror survival. I don't care for MMORPGs or most other online gaming (the only online gaming that entices me is the private salon model where I know everyone playing there). I don't care much about FPSs, but it's more a question of not really giving it a try than the whole disgust at blood and guts. I suck at strategy games too.

See? The point is, we all have different tastes, different intellectual styles and this is why it's impossible to make a "game specifically for girls" without falling into the traditional stereotypes.

hydr0x

03-18-2005, 09:38 AM

Chances are, you're not a girl. Don't tell ME what kind of games I like to play.

yeah i'm not a girl ;) and noone here is trying to tell you what you have to like, but you should stop talking as if your opinion is true for every girl, seriously, it's not like every girl is the same, huh ;)

i can tell you (and all of us) what my girlfriend (who is a girl, funny, isn't it?) likes in games (and most of the things i now say is true for every gaming girl i know, and i know more than a few ... )

- she likes every cute mascot, may it be Yoshi, Hello Kitty or even Link (in Wind Waker)

- she likes good music (and of course also music games, she loves Singstar and likes Donkey Konga)

- she likes great stories with good dialogues as can be found mostly in RPG's

- she likes it if the controls are relatively easy to master, it doesn't have to be Pac-Man easy but a Street Fighter would be too much

- she likes a beatuiful nice atmosphere in games, preferably even a "perfect world", at least it should end with a perfect world ;) (games like Wind Waker, Yoshi's Island, Harvest Moon and others come to mind

- she likes colorful graphics, like in the Kirby games, the closer to a rainbow the better ;)

- she likes games she can pop in and just play for 10 minutes, arcade and puzzle especially fit in here

- she likes it if a game creates it's own fantastic world

- she likes it to think about something

what she absolutely dislikes:

- grey graphics, like a lot of PS2 games have them (Dynasty Warrior is a good example)

- if there's too much fighting in there, a game with only fighting is nothing for her

- if you can die very easy, she hates the resulting frustration

- if there are time limits, time limits are generally bad for her as she often wants to explore as long as she wants (she recently played over 40 minutes in one level of Yoshi's Island, just because it was fun to explore it more and more)

so, that's what the girls who are not into gaming yet would love (she didn't game before she met me), the only differing opinion towards this i have ever encountered was with 2 or 3 girls i met who mostly played Warcraft III, COunter-Strike, Unreal and that stuff, so basically the same things as men play, you don't have to change anything in games for those girls, so it doesn't help with this topic ;)

PentiumMMX

03-18-2005, 09:58 AM

For most girls: Make it fun
For my sister: Add Alucard, OOT-Style Link, Zombies, More Vampires, ReDeads, ect.

(Basicly she likes Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Zelda: Ocarina of Time)

Lady Jaye

03-18-2005, 10:00 AM

Make more games with androgynous pretty boys, maybe? I know that I'm fascinated by the charadesign of the Castlevania games of the past few years.

SpasticFuctard

03-18-2005, 10:14 AM

More Cowbell.

Also?

http://www.patmedia.net/valeriesmith01/hal.gif

Achika

03-18-2005, 02:56 PM

Keep building games the way there are, and I will keep buying them.

Sure I may fit into the steriotipical girly category (pink consoles, cute mascots, etc.) but really the games I like to play depend on my mood. Sometimes I want to blow away everything in sight so I hook up a light gun and play HotD or something similar, sometimes I like puzzles (hooked up with cutsey mascots) and I'm playing BAM or Hello Kitty Cube Frenzy or drag out my NES for classic puzzlers, every once in awhile I want to be scared out of my pants so I turn the lights down and pop in a Survival Horror.

Most of the time I play MMO, I play FFXI. Not because it's "customizable" but because it is part of the FFXI universe. Sure, I flocked to the oh-my-god-so-cute TaruTaru. Just because of this, it does not mean I can't hold my own and prevail triumphant in a battle. I played PSO on DC, but I've never gotten into EQ, DAOC, SWG, etc.

Sometimes I like a well rounded adventure like the ones Spastic mentioned above.

Just keep building games the way they are and the makers will unconciously (for lack of a better word) keep building this girl gamer pool. It's fine to have Barbie and Mary Kate and things for younger audiences, but at a certain point I think girls get out of that and play the same games boys do and just fine, if not better than some.

LOL If I wanted to build houses and cities, I'd take out my legos.

Push Upstairs

03-18-2005, 03:04 PM

My girlfriend doesnt play games alot (I don't consider her a gamer)...but of the games she has played i know she likes:

Pinball games
Columns/Tetris
Kirby games
&
Metal Slug X :D

E Nice

03-18-2005, 06:54 PM

mr_nihilism

03-18-2005, 07:53 PM

My woman has next to no gaming experience outside of Bust A Move and Tetris, but when she saw me playing Burnout 3 while on takedown mode she wanted to play. And she did. And after getting used to the control, wasn't terrible at it. For whatever reason, there was no interest at all in the actual racing aspect of the game.

And my point is? I dunno exactly. Perhaps there's no real telling what a woman will like. Just like whoever said already, if the game is really good, they will come.

scooterb23

03-18-2005, 08:32 PM

if the game is really good, they will come.

That's gotta be a damn good game ;)

when she saw me playing Burnout 3 while on takedown mode she wanted to play. And she did. And after getting used to the control, wasn't terrible at it. For whatever reason, there was no interest at all in the actual racing aspect of the game.

That's because women can't dri...I mean, actually my sister was the same way...she doesn't play many games, but she loved Crash mode of Burnout 2.

I agree with one key thing, keep making good games...and people of all sorts will flock to them.

mezrabad

03-18-2005, 09:18 PM

I think it's not so much about making a game a women would want to play.
I think it's about designing a Good Game that doesn't rely on gratuitous content to attract guys who exclusively date their hands and then having the marketing courage to NOT put in said content.

The question is: Will the new female gamers that are no longer repelled by hypothetical game be enough to offset the loss in revenue from the hand-daters?

I don't know. How well have really good games done across the genders?

Are there any games with gratuitous sexual objectification of females worth playing for any reason other than said content?

Maybe game designers are saying, "Hey, this game isn't that great. The worst thing that could happen would be for a female gamer to buy this game, not enjoy it, and, as a result of her disappointment, never buy another game! Let's add lots of sexual images of women so that women will avoid this game and play other, better, games that will cause them to enjoy gaming to the fullest extent!"

See? Maybe the offensive stuff is like public service that says to women "This game isn't worth playing, it's exclusively for guys who can't get any!"

Yes, I'm exaggerating, but women aren't really missing anything worthwhile when they're not interested in something like "The Guy Game" or whatever that Hefner sim is called.

Push Upstairs

03-18-2005, 11:48 PM

"The Guy Game" LOL

I see that game and think of those "Girls Gone Wild" videos.

Which makes me wonder who actually buys those damn things because there are alot of them on the market (I know this because i worked at a place that sold them).

But the point is, that game is sad and worthless...and this is coming from a guy.

Daria

03-19-2005, 01:22 AM

http://www.patmedia.net/valeriesmith01/hal.gif

Girly games need more Jack Black?

I'd buy it. >.>'

Achika

03-19-2005, 12:28 PM

Sometimes I like a well rounded adventure like the ones Spastic mentioned above.

Didn't Space Quest 4 have the Latex Babes of Estros, a planet of women who wore nothing but swimsuits? And Space Quest 5 have a woman named Beatrice Wankmeister?

Erm, sorry, those were about the only series from the list that I hadn't played. I had them at one point or another, but space and space-related games, movies, etc have never really intrested me. After playing for about 5 min. I got bored with them and tucked them back away.

Do add Monkey Island series to that list as well.

If the game is good, then I will play it. I am not one to pine over the characters name, what color thong they are wearing, or how much cleavege is shown. If I get offended by the game so much, I won't play it, I won't buy it, but I am not the type to be lobbying on capitol hill screaming it should be taken off the shelves. To each their own.

I own DOA Volleyball, but I do not own Guy Game, I enjoyed the character models, series of DOA. I do find Guy Game a touch offensive, maybe it's because it's really women, I can't put my finger on it though. The only reason I can see myself picking it up is because it was taken off the shelves. (? I'm not sure, I haven't paid much attention to games in the last few months)

Aswald

03-19-2005, 03:05 PM

Rhiannon tried back in 1984. Anyone remember them?

Daria

03-19-2005, 05:01 PM

I own DOA Volleyball, but I do not own Guy Game, I enjoyed the character models, series of DOA. I do find Guy Game a touch offensive, maybe it's because it's really women, I can't put my finger on it though. The only reason I can see myself picking it up is because it was taken off the shelves. (? I'm not sure, I haven't paid much attention to games in the last few months)

I own DOA Volleyball as well. I don't think the girls in that game are protrayed in a deragatory manner, for the most part they're just girls in bathingsuits (and yes I know guys enjoy watching them hop around). For what's supposedly a sexiest game, as least it's tasteful.

But I enjoyed actually playing volleyball and to some extent collecting all the various swimsuits and accessories. Pillow hopping was also mindlessly entertaining.

CartCollector

03-19-2005, 05:08 PM

Rhiannon tried back in 1984. Anyone remember them?

Ummm... I guess not. Nothing comes up for Rhiannon on the online rarity guide. Are you sure they're a real company?

Aussie2B

03-19-2005, 08:21 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I find it a little insulting when people say that girls want games that are "simple to understand", "with simple controls", and "not too challenging". :/ What, girls aren't as smart and skilled as boys?

I mean, girls tend to gravitate towards puzzle games and RPGs, right? Well, those are some of the most complex genres. In puzzle games, you have to very quickly on the fly come up with complicated combos and strategies. In RPGs, you tend to have more time to think, but it's still a very cerebral, strategic experience.

As for controls, it's only important for a game to have GOOD controls, whether they be simple or complex. Controls should only be based on what their respective game needs. The only time controls should be simpler is if the developers have OVER-complicated them.

And for difficulty... why on earth should games be dumbed down for girls? I mean, what's being suggested here? Should games have an option menu for difficulty that instead of numbers or descriptions says "girly girls", "girls", "boys", "men", and "manly men"? :P Gimme a break.

EVERYBODY, whether male or female, will find games challenging when they first start getting into them. They may complain that the game is too complex or difficult, but in the end, the only problem is that they lack skill. So you keep playing until you can handle it. Practice makes perfect, you know. When I started gaming with Super Mario Bros., I couldn't even get past 1-1 at first, but I never thought "I wish they made games easier for me, a girl". It's what I started with and what my brother started with, and we both had the same experience with it.

By the way, I am now able to beat many games that most guys can't even beat like Castlevania Adventure. ;)

Daniel Thomas

03-19-2005, 08:42 PM

As long as the videogames industry is dominated by pasty-faced nerds, there's not going to be a real market for girls. Get some women in there, and they'll make the games they like.

Women are far more accepting of games than ever before, so I don't think this is nearly as large a problem as it's always been. Designers just have to make good games that involve more than stupid violence or geeky T&A (which brings us back to the poindexters).

Wavelflack

03-19-2005, 10:25 PM

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please... x_x

Your tag says "pet sim lover".

I'd say that fits right in with the "stereotype" being protested.

Daria

03-20-2005, 02:21 AM

SpasticFuctard

03-20-2005, 05:09 AM

'Ghenghis Khan is hungry'

*presses the feed warlord button*

'Ghenghis Khas is Angry'

*presses the Invade the Teutonic Knights in Turkey button*

SF - You got your Tamogatchi in my Koei! You got your Koei in my... I got nothing.

shoes23

03-20-2005, 05:37 AM

You know a lot of good and not so good points have been thrown around in this post. As far as most of the comments that guys are making about what girls want in a video game, I think most of us are quoting from experience with a spouse/significant other. I know that my girlfriend just really doesn't get into any kind of gaming except the occasional Tetris round, as far as many of the next generation games they just plain don't interest her. As far as the women at frequent this forum and post (we love ya! we appreciate what you bring to the table, and we'd love to find someone to be with that shares the passion for games that you have), but you have to admit that you are a minority in the female population, you're as synonomous as male cheerleaders. As far as making games, quality will draw them in, but ultimately its just a personal preference that will attract many women to specific games.

poloplayr

03-20-2005, 07:14 AM

Wavelflack

03-20-2005, 11:51 AM

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please... x_x

Your tag says "pet sim lover".

I'd say that fits right in with the "stereotype" being protested.

For all you know she's playing that tamagotchi while the computer's calculating the actions of the other players in the lastest KOEI war simulation.

Lets not fling around insulting assumptions.

How totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all whether or not she is also playing a war sim/FPS/XBV/etc. The fact remains that she proclaims her affection for a nonviolent, slow paced, and (sorry) unchallenging form of game entertainment, while simultaneously blasting others who suggested that girls enjoy less competitive, lower machismo games.

I hope that's clear enough for you.

Promophile

03-20-2005, 02:38 PM

I think I've discovered something that would draw girls into gaming without fail

http://www.fabioifc.com/fabio/FABGIFS/95news.jpg

Fabio the Video Game.

Lady Jaye

03-20-2005, 02:46 PM

Nah, you don't see us gals flocking to buy copies of Iron Sword for the NES, do ya? ;)

Aussie2B

03-20-2005, 03:27 PM

I simply do not believe that girls as a group are interested in gaming. period.
Sure there are some girl gamers but the average girl does not enjoy gaming anywhere near how much the average guy does. There is a reason for this. And it is not about the games' character and what type of games that are out there. It is because girls and boys are different. Girls like dolls and boys like toy guns. Guys are competitive by nature and girls are not.

I recently read a quote somewhere by a guy who is a professor at a school for exceptional children, and he said something along the lines of "Show me a sex difference in a child, and I will show you the cultural influence at work."

There is absolutely nothing from nature that dictates that girls like dolls and boys like toy guns. The only reason that's the trend is because society raises them to believe that is true and is what is expected of them. If a guy likes things that are considered "feminine", he's called gay or a sissy. If a girl likes things that are considered "masculine", she's called a lesbian, a tomboy, or "she just has something wrong with her". You know what the sad thing is? Those words describing women that like masculine things are the exact words I've heard guys call women who like video games. Apparently, I can't just be a normal woman that happens to like games, it must mean that there's something odd about me.

When I was a little girl, I was into both video games and Barbies, and I never thought they were mutually exclusive. Nobody ever told me "Stop playing video games; you're only supposed to play to play with dolls." It was never in my vocabulary to think one action was more "feminine" than the other. If it's acceptable for me to play board games with my family, what's so different about electronic games?

As I grew up, I never felt obligated to be into fashion, shopping, make-up, gossip or any of that crap. I was just being me, and I considered that stuff a waste of time and money that could be better spent on the hobbies that did interest me. I don't think that makes me a tomboy. I don't look or act like a guy at all.

I think it's a great injustice that girls constantly have the idea shoved down their throats that they're not SUPPOSED to like video games, because it's not something that girls do. Now THAT is the problem, and THAT is the reason why girls don't play games as much as guys. Some women are strong individuals that will play games regardless, but many are sensitive and would rather not play at all than deal with the comments and funny looks. Up until I was around 14, I'd share my love of video games with anyone anywhere. However, once I hit high school and still to this day, I avoid telling people I like games unless it's friends or people online. Apparently, as I get older, the weirder people think it is for a woman to play games, and I don't care to deal with whatever ignorant thoughts they may have.

Promophile

03-20-2005, 03:40 PM

If a guy likes things that are considered "feminine", he's called gay or a sissy. If a girl likes things that are considered "masculine", she's called a lesbian, a tomboy, or "she just has something wrong with her"

I actually saw a show about this in psychology class. It was about the differences between the sexes and if it was cultural or genetic. There is a double standard, really. If a girl likes toy trucks and guns she's a tomboy and thats ok. If a boy likes barbies his parents will sure as hell put a stop to it unless they are VERY liberal. Another experiment they had was with male and female babies. They put them alone in a room and seperated them from their mothers with a glass wall. They found that the vast majority of boy babies would discover the glass and try to find a way to crawl around it while the vast majority of girl babies after discovering the glass would sit down and cry. Is this the result of nature or of parents coddling girl babies more and boy babies less? It was an interesting show.

Aussie2B

03-20-2005, 04:05 PM

Yeah, I'd definitely say that people are harsher with boys when it comes to fitting their "gender role". From day one boys are taught to be a man and not cry and such. Girls are taught to be lady-like, but I think that comes a bit later. That's why you'll see a lot of girls that play video games and do other so-called "boy things" until they're about 12 or 13. Then puberty hits and their peers absolutely destroy their self-esteem unless they do everything that's expected of them.

It's just sad that anybody, male or female, would be told they can't do certain things just because of their gender. I know if I had a son, I wouldn't freak out if he starting playing with a doll, and if I had a girl, hell, I would TRY to raise her to be into video games. :P My sister-in-law is growing up in a household full of video game freaks, and she's been strongly interested in them ever since she was able to start playing. I don't know what she gets at school, but at home no one would ever make her feel that it's strange or unacceptable for her to play games. I just hope that when she hits puberty in a couple years that she won't get sucked up into a world of teenager girl insipid-ness. o_O

Wavelflack

03-20-2005, 06:42 PM

Did you have any dolls? If so, did you enjoy playing with them?

Lady Jaye

03-20-2005, 07:06 PM

I had a couple of dolls, but no Barbie dolls (and a lot more stuffed toys like my stuffed Sylvester the Cat). And, frankly, I was much more into action figures (and no, I did not "play house" with them): GI Joe, Transformers, etc.

I grew up following my own interests, rather than having to fit into social conventions of what was acceptable or not.

Achika

03-20-2005, 07:17 PM

Did you have any dolls? If so, did you enjoy playing with them?

Depends, what were He-man toys? Dolls or action figures? I played with those at the same time as She-Ra (more so with the He-Man I believe though). Among those, I enjoyed Care Bear hunks of plastic and fluff, Barbie, My Little Pony, Lego, and Star Wars.

It'd be interesting to see what people tend to associate these two types of toys with...

He-man + She-Ra = action figures?

-or-

He-Man = Action Figure
She-Ra = Doll

Daria

03-20-2005, 10:31 PM

I hope that's clear enough for you.

Do I have an "Attention Retarded: Speak Slowly and Use a Red Crayon" disclaimer in my sig or something? Why is it whenever I make a post on this forum lately someone takes it upon themselves to talk to me like I'm stupid. Yes thank you that was very clear and condescending.

How totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all whether or not she is also playing a war sim/FPS/XBV/etc. The fact remains that she proclaims her affection for a nonviolent, slow paced, and (sorry) unchallenging form of game entertainment, while simultaneously blasting others who suggested that girls enjoy less competitive, lower machismo games.

For starters I don't think Emily was blasting anyone, she replied with sarcasm to a post about Ultima online and it's non-combative job options, even then she wasn't attacking the poster but the game it's self.

Personally I disagree with her, but that's neither here nor there.

Your tag says "pet sim lover".
I'd say that fits right in with the "stereotype" being protested.

My point was that she can't fit in with the sterotype that "girls only enjoy nonviolent, slow paced, and unchallenging games" if she also enjoys complicated and violent war simulations (this is hypothetical I have no clue what games Emily enjoys.. obviously violent ones judging by her comment regarding UO.) Because the terms only and also are mutually exclusive.

Hope that was clear enough for you. (:

Nz17

03-20-2005, 11:33 PM

Lets make games boring, then chicks will like them!

Please... x_x

Did it ever occur to you that you might be atypical? I hope so, because you are. Most women I know love DDR, puzzlers, and RPGs. Just because you don't enjoy them doesn't mean other people don't. Hell, I love DDR, but I get odd looks from people because of it. But I keep playing it because I enjoy it, not because I get approval of it.

This topic is about female gamers IN GENERAL, not specific cases. It is about standard patterns and approaches that seem to work, not Sally Comlaetlee's favorite this or that.

Daria

03-20-2005, 11:35 PM

Most women I know love DDR, puzzlers, and RPGs.

Most male gamers I know enjoy them too, in addition to other genres. But maybe I just hang out with a weird group of guys.

No point to this. I'm just talkative tonight. :P

mezrabad

03-21-2005, 11:10 AM

I recently read a quote somewhere by a guy who is a professor at a school for exceptional children, and he said something along the lines of "Show me a sex difference in a child, and I will show you the cultural influence at work."

This is kind of an aside from the topic of videogaming, but it does deal with gender-specific issues so I would consider it on-topic for this thread.

There was a story called "Baby X", fictional, about a couple who decided not to tell anyone the gender of their baby. The story then goes to illustrate that this child had twice as much fun as everyone else because they got to play in boy activities AND girl activities. The contention of the story was that boys and girls are pretty much the same until puberty and only different because we tell them what they shouldn't be playing. I LOVED this idea when I read it and totally embraced the "let them play with everything" concept. Anyway, you might be interested in the story, it's in a book of story/essays called "The 51% Minority". Mostly essays about gender roles and identification and some of them are a good read if you're into sociology.

Anyway, I really believed this "gender non-specific until puberty" stuff . . . until I had children. One boy, one girl. I'm not going to go into the details, but let us just say my experience with them has changed my mind. Anyone can say what they want about physical versus cultural difference, but those cultural forces seem to start exerting their influence from the first second of birth making any physical "non-influence" irrelavant.

Maybe it is 90% cultural and 10% physical, who knows? I really don't think anyone knows for certain and I don't think that it is entirely relevant because no one grows up in a cultural vaccuum. My point is that, regardless of what causes it, in this culture, most boys, act like "boys" and most girls act like "girls". I don't think this influences their abilities directly but it certainly influences their interests, which in turn, influences what abilities they decide to invest time into improving. I bolded it, not because I'm yelling, but I think it is important to distinguish abilities from interests, but that both affect one another and that culture has a pronounced effect on apparently gender biased interest selections.

I think it is very safe to say that most women aren't interested in videogames, in the same way it is fairly safe to say most men aren't interested in being the primary caregiver for their children.

However, being a primary caregiver is a great way to get to play a lot of videogames with your children so our culture could change to reflect this if we start seeing a lot of gamers staying home with their kids because of the opportunity to play videogames.

So, overall my point is, read that book if you're interested in this stuff and then see how your mind changes if you ever choose to have children.