the purpose of emulation (psone related)

[soniko_karuto]

is, in the terms of the ones who defend it, to preserve the system and/or games. But with so much faulty ps1's, and we do know that lasers die, what would be your stance around now, with, for example the ps1 in 10 years?

I'm not saying emulation is good or bad, because i love to play RR:T4 on the telly thru the pc (it looks friggin awesome!), but there are a lot of lil errors that make it look weird. But when i play it on the psone, i can't just stand the pixelation.

on what ground are you? and i want comments, that's why i didn't do this a poll (we have a lot of polls lately).

[Poofta!]

sony is dedicated to backwards compatability. im willing to bet that 10 years form now, their console will play ps1 games, OR they will make a console that CAN play them readily availlable for cheap (ps3).

im more concerned with sega cd, tgcd and saturn. those systems will never be back in any way shape or form, and they are dying... fast (hardware wise lol). but then again we already have emulators for those, im not aware of a saturn emulator, but thats cause ive never owned/played a saturn game in my life.

[James]

Hardware emulation through software is possibly the greatest type of software there is. The main reason I use emulation is to play my old games at higher resolutions with no pixilation from a convenient list all on the same system. It's just a lot more convenient this way. It's very good for preservation, etc. as old systems do die all the time and with cheaply built hardware like anything Sony related we need it. The MAME team exists solely as a preservation team out to create useable backups of all dead arcade hardware all in one convenient package and 99% of what they emulate is perfect to the original which means the emulator’s success is as perfect as it can be realistically as we can never get everything quite perfect to the original. We can get close though and the errors I'm talking about are mostly caused by copy protection or unnoticeable errors within the original hardware itself. Now why we don't have a console team with the same dedication I would like to know. I wish I knew a bit more about programming, then I would definitely contribute to something like this.

Most cartridge based systems have been emulated near perfectly. As for CD based systems there are no perfectly emulated ones yet although ePSXe is almost there and is updated regularly. The Sega CD seems to get updates as well. As for the Saturn, NEO GEO CD, CDI, Jaguar CD, N64, PC Engine CD and any others I’ve missed their emulation attempts have pretty much all died and no one seems to be interested in them anymore. Which is too bad because Hu-Go is a fairly complete emulator, except for the lack of buttons III - VI not being emulated which makes no sense as you need those to play most of the CD games that it emulates perfectly.

Because of the evil of money the first party companies will probably never release official emulators for the general public and even if they did make one the functionality of it would probably be limited due to some sort of stupid regulations.

[Poofta!]

" the evil of money "

what is this bullshit, god forbid, if a company that set out to make tv-based console entertainment does just that!

or must the gaming industry bend over backwards to please every single kid/adult/dog/cat/teen? whether its "i wanna play these games on my pc!" or "i want games to cost less" or the newly popular "i dont like how the main characters look even though the majority does, please oh please make them look realistic without big tits or sexually appealing clothing!" (ok i got carried away with that one)

seriously, realize that game companies want to do what they initially gotten into, if they envisioned people playing their games without paying and on the pc, they wouldve made freeware instead of *insert console here* games.


personally i think CONSOLE emulation is evil. people argue preservation but thats bullshit, since emulators come out ASAP while the console is still hot, not 5 years after everyones forgot about it (there are some that do, and those are the ones i respect, but i dont see you spending days playing commodore-64 roms).

[Flack]

but i dont see you spending days playing commodore-64 roms).

Oh really? :D

[Xantan the Foul]

I don't feel bad about ROMs and Emulation for myself, but that's because I either own, or plan to get, the ROMs I donwload.

With the notable exception of translations and hacks.

[Griking]

but i dont see you spending days playing commodore-64 roms).

Oh really? :D

You're right, I spend hours on end playing Apple II roms.

[PentiumMMX]

I think emulation is good!

Where I live, you cannot rent GB\GBC\GBA games (Because The Game Paks would get lost).

So I had no other choice to try "Mega Man Battle Network" but download the
ROMs. I even downloaded "Sonic Advance 3" a few weeks after release to try it!

Now back to the topic of PlayStation Emulation,

I also think it's a good thing, because I can play my Mega Man games while
"Mega Man: NT Warrior" is recording :D

[rbudrick]

I think emulation is good!

Awesome! -_-


Where I live, you cannot rent GB\GBC\GBA games (Because The Game Paks would get lost).

So I had no other choice to try "Mega Man Battle Network" but download the
ROMs. I even downloaded "Sonic Advance 3" a few weeks after release to try it!

Now back to the topic of PlayStation Emulation,

I also think it's a good thing, because I can play my Mega Man games while
"Mega Man: NT Warrior" is recording

Well, you could fucking BUY it! No choice, sheesh.

-Rob

[LocalH]

Anyone who hates emulation itself is a tool. Hate ROM distribution all you want, but there is nothing wrong with emulation, ever, period, in any way, shape, form, or fashion. You know there are people that hate that there are "DS emulators" available, despite the fact that there are only two confirmed ROM dumps (and I don't even think Darkfader released the actual SM64DS dump), and the emulators won't even run them? What the fuck?

[GrayFox]

I think emulation is good!

Awesome! -_-


Where I live, you cannot rent GB\GBC\GBA games (Because The Game Paks would get lost).

So I had no other choice to try "Mega Man Battle Network" but download the
ROMs. I even downloaded "Sonic Advance 3" a few weeks after release to try it!

Now back to the topic of PlayStation Emulation,

I also think it's a good thing, because I can play my Mega Man games while
"Mega Man: NT Warrior" is recording

Well, you could fucking BUY it! No choice, sheesh.

-Rob

o.O

Harsh man.

I know plenty of people that download GBA roms to try them, and then buy them. Why spend $30-35 on a title that is just pure crap? I don't see any reason.

Also, I hope you bought Sonic Advance 3, heh, great title :)

[mezrabad]

i dont see you spending days playing commodore-64 roms

You mean you could play all the commodore 64 roms in one day? :hmm:

Don't assume that just because you wouldn't, that nobody would. I have spent days going through C-64 roms. Days that I enjoyed!

The problem with emulation is that if you haven't played it on the original hardware, you'll never even be aware of what you missed at the points where the emulation fails.

I don't do PSX emulation yet, because it's still missing stuff. Despite pixelation on the original hardware, I'd rather have the authentic pixelation than the dropped features on the emulation.

For the expensive, out of print, hard to find stuff. I will emulate to see if it is something I may enjoy playing, and then I will hunt that sucker down. I would hate to spend lots of money for something because it is rare, only to find out that it sucks as a game. Emulation is a nice testing ground for that.

[James]

Anyone who hates emulation itself is a tool. Hate ROM distribution all you want, but there is nothing wrong with emulation, ever, period, in any way, shape, form, or fashion. You know there are people that hate that there are "DS emulators" available, despite the fact that there are only two confirmed ROM dumps (and I don't even think Darkfader released the actual SM64DS dump), and the emulators won't even run them? What the fuck?

Exactly my point, couldn't of summed it up better myself.

[James]

" the evil of money "

what is this bullshit, god forbid, if a company that set out to make tv-based console entertainment does just that!

or must the gaming industry bend over backwards to please every single kid/adult/dog/cat/teen? whether its "i wanna play these games on my pc!" or "i want games to cost less" or the newly popular "i dont like how the main characters look even though the majority does, please oh please make them look realistic without big tits or sexually appealing clothing!" (ok i got carried away with that one)

seriously, realize that game companies want to do what they initially gotten into, if they envisioned people playing their games without paying and on the pc, they wouldve made freeware instead of *insert console here* games.


personally i think CONSOLE emulation is evil. people argue preservation but thats bullshit, since emulators come out ASAP while the console is still hot, not 5 years after everyones forgot about it (there are some that do, and those are the ones i respect, but i dont see you spending days playing commodore-64 roms).

Another short sighted fool. :roll:

[Jorpho]

Most cartridge based systems have been emulated near perfectly. As for CD based systems there are no perfectly emulated ones yet although ePSXe is almost there and is updated regularly. The Sega CD seems to get updates as well. As for the Saturn, NEO GEO CD, CDI, Jaguar CD, N64, PC Engine CD and any others I’ve missed their emulation attempts have pretty much all died and no one seems to be interested in them anymore. Which is too bad because Hu-Go is a fairly complete emulator, except for the lack of buttons III - VI not being emulated which makes no sense as you need those to play most of the CD games that it emulates perfectly.

It isn't so much that no one is interested in those systems as it is that those systems are complex and difficult to emulate.

That said, Magic Engine does PC Engine CD very nicely (or so I've heard), and the likes of Project64 and 1964 aren't too bad at all when it comes to the N64. Numerous Neo Geo CD projects also exist, though I do not know how advanced they are (but then, I can't even name two games released for the Neo Geo CD, and I doubt many other people would know better).

[WiseSalesman]

Where I live, you cannot rent GB\GBC\GBA games (Because The Game Paks would get lost).

So I had no other choice to try "Mega Man Battle Network" but download the
ROMs. I even downloaded "Sonic Advance 3" a few weeks after release to try it!

Well, you could fucking BUY it! No choice, sheesh.

-Rob

Yes, because, truly, all gamers have so much money that they can afford to purchase every game that they think looks interesting. Very intelligent. :roll: Those of us in college, on low income, etc. rent or emulate games FIRST to make sure we don't spend fifty or sixty hard-earned dollars on a crap title. I don't see the problem.

[Griking]

Has anyone mentioned that w/ ePSXe (Playstation emulator) you can play using your legitimate Playstation CDs and not only bootlegs? I see nothing wrong with this at all. Its a blessing at times to not have to connect another console to play a game.

Do you find this sory of emulation evil as well?

[digitalpress]

Has anyone mentioned that w/ ePSXe (Playstation emulator) you can play using your legitimate Playstation CDs and not only bootlegs? I see nothing wrong with this at all. Its a blessing at times to not have to connect another console to play a game.

Do you find this sory of emulation evil as well?

I don't!

I often use the PSX emulator on my PC using my original PSX games. I like the monitor and many times it's simply more convenient.

[RockyRaccoon]

Has anyone mentioned that w/ ePSXe (Playstation emulator) you can play using your legitimate Playstation CDs and not only bootlegs? I see nothing wrong with this at all. Its a blessing at times to not have to connect another console to play a game.

Do you find this sory of emulation evil as well?

I don't!

I often use the PSX emulator on my PC using my original PSX games. I like the monitor and many times it's simply more convenient.

I agree with this statement. The Computers CD-Rom drive is also more forgiving with scratched discs than my orignal PSX. ..it plays games the PSX won't due to scratching.

[Daniel Thomas]

Emulation is a tool. For the most part, we use them to preserve the older consoles that have been rendered obsolete. It's a pretty annoying thing to be asked to throw away your collection and start anew every five years. Sure, you guys who collect everything don't have a problem with that, but most of us only have the space or the time for one or two consoles.

Emulation also has the benefit of raising my standards for classics discs. What good is there to buy a classics compilation with only a handful of games? What's the use of that? More often than not, this is merely a cynical scheme to grab more money out of consumers, and there's no damned excuse.

Usually by the time a console becomes emulated properly, its life cycle has passed and we're all on to the next thing. We're only at the early stages of Dreamcast and Gamecube emulation, and I don't think PS2 and Xbox have even been tried. And poor old Saturn still has nothing decent except for Giri Giri; it'll be some time before it's really mastered.

[WiseSalesman]

Has anyone mentioned that w/ ePSXe (Playstation emulator) you can play using your legitimate Playstation CDs and not only bootlegs? I see nothing wrong with this at all. Its a blessing at times to not have to connect another console to play a game.

Do you find this sory of emulation evil as well?

I did this my freshman year of college. I didn't have room for a TV, so I bought a TV tuner + ePSXe + a MadCatz Data Deck on clearance. That's how I finished FFIX.

[Snapple]

I used ePSXe all the time, but I don't own any ISOs. Sometimes, it's just better or more convenient to play the games on my computer. Just pop the CD in, and I'm good to go.

And even with older emulators, I only emulate things that I wouldn't normally own, that I already own, or that I wouldn't be able to play because of region lock-out. And obviously, I can't play fan translations on my systems.

Even if I owned every game on the planet, I would still use emulation in instances where it's convenient. Emulation isn't all about trying to get things for free instead of paying for them. Some of these programs are just great programs.

I know I'm not costing the industry any money, so I'll be damned if I'm tried to be made feel guilty about it.

If the game industry wants to detract from emulation, they could start by reaching out to the gamer and getting rid of unnecessary region lock-outs.

[James]

Most cartridge based systems have been emulated near perfectly. As for CD based systems there are no perfectly emulated ones yet although ePSXe is almost there and is updated regularly. The Sega CD seems to get updates as well. As for the Saturn, NEO GEO CD, CDI, Jaguar CD, N64, PC Engine CD and any others I’ve missed their emulation attempts have pretty much all died and no one seems to be interested in them anymore. Which is too bad because Hu-Go is a fairly complete emulator, except for the lack of buttons III - VI not being emulated which makes no sense as you need those to play most of the CD games that it emulates perfectly.

It isn't so much that no one is interested in those systems as it is that those systems are complex and difficult to emulate.

That said, Magic Engine does PC Engine CD very nicely (or so I've heard), and the likes of Project64 and 1964 aren't too bad at all when it comes to the N64. Numerous Neo Geo CD projects also exist, though I do not know how advanced they are (but then, I can't even name two games released for the Neo Geo CD, and I doubt many other people would know better).

Those systems are more complex yes but support for them seems to be lax or support for the current emulators has been given up on. As for Magic Engine, it's compatibility is about 99% or so and still gets updates but it has a lack of good customization, is closed source and costs $19 US still so it doesn't count as far as the Emulation scene goes. Unlicensed people shouldn't profit from other companies machines so I'm not going to support it unless they release the Source. Project 64 and 1964 support a few games fairly perfectly like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time but other than that compatibility is at about 30% and support seems to have disapeared. The NEO GEO CD scene is the same story unfortuately but that system doesn't really matter, I'm pretty sure all the games on it are AES ports and all of those also have arcade counterparts which are emulated perfectly through MAME therefore emulating the NEO GEO CD is pretty pointless and its a terrible system anyway, those load times are unforgivable.

[zektor]

Allow me to give an example in which emulation is essential (yes essential) to the survival of games:

The Commodore 64 is one of my favorite computers of all time. I have much love for this computer. I purchased MANY games for it over the years back then, and now most of them no longer work. Because of the lifespan of the media (5 1.4 floppies) the games are destined to die sooner or later....as most already have. But, because emulation exists, and because of the hard work on the dumpers and emulation authors, I can STILL play games such as Ninja (Mastertronic) and Beachhead II, along with thousands and thousands more. Someday soon this will be the ONLY way to continue to reminisce and enjoy the games of long ago.

In short, emulation is GOOD.

[Jorpho]

As for Magic Engine, it's compatibility is about 99% or so and still gets updates but it has a lack of good customization, is closed source and costs $19 US still so it doesn't count as far as the Emulation scene goes. Unlicensed people shouldn't profit from other companies machines so I'm not going to support it unless they release the Source.

So the developers are supposed to work for free and expect nothing in return for their hard work?

(Of course it would be nice if they did, but I can hardly blame them for doing otherwise.)

[James]

As for Magic Engine, it's compatibility is about 99% or so and still gets updates but it has a lack of good customization, is closed source and costs $19 US still so it doesn't count as far as the Emulation scene goes. Unlicensed people shouldn't profit from other companies machines so I'm not going to support it unless they release the Source.

So the developers are supposed to work for free and expect nothing in return for their hard work?

(Of course it would be nice if they did, but I can hardly blame them for doing otherwise.)

That's not my point. My point is they didn't make the PC Engine and they aren't licensed by NEC so why should they profit off of it?

[Jorpho]

Why should they bother at all?

[James]

Why should they bother at all?

Why not?

[LocalH]

Allow me to give an example in which emulation is essential (yes essential) to the survival of games:

The Commodore 64 is one of my favorite computers of all time. I have much love for this computer. I purchased MANY games for it over the years back then, and now most of them no longer work. Because of the lifespan of the media (5 1.4 floppies) the games are destined to die sooner or later....as most already have. But, because emulation exists, and because of the hard work on the dumpers and emulation authors, I can STILL play games such as Ninja (Mastertronic) and Beachhead II, along with thousands and thousands more. Someday soon this will be the ONLY way to continue to reminisce and enjoy the games of long ago.

In short, emulation is GOOD.
Especially when you have groups like these guys (http://rittwage.com/c64pp/) who have the lofty goal of preserving ORIGINAL disks, copy protection and all. Cracked copies are cool and help preserve games even further, but it's the difference between an unmodified ROM dump, and one with a trainer - the trained version is nice if that's all that hasn't been irreparably degraded, but original, unmodified copies are always preferable.

[mezrabad]

That's not my point. My point is they didn't make the PC Engine and they aren't licensed by NEC so why should they profit off of it?

$19? You call that profit? It's probably just bare bones reimbursement for the amount of time the guy spent not having a life. x_x