DP's rarity guide values for SNES carts seem off ?

[Anthony1]

Is it just me, or are the values of the SNES carts in the DP rarity guide seem somewhat off?


I did some searches, trying to find out which SNES games are the most valuable, and I was suprised by the results.


Alot of games showed up that I didn't really expect, and then alot of games didn't show up that I would have expected.

First I did a search to see what carts might be valued over $50. Only three games showed up. The Donkey Kong competition cart, the Starfox competition cart and a cart that goes with a exercise bike.

Then I did a search for games $30 or over. The only new game that showed up was one Mega Man game. I think it was Mega Man X3. Then I did a search for games $20 and over. This time, a bunch more games showed up, some that I was familar with, but the values that some of them had seemed very low to me.

For example Chrono Trigger showed up, but the value was $25. I thought that game went for more like $40.

Final Fantasy III showed up, and it was also valued at $25. Again, I thought it was a game that went closer to $40. Final Fantasy II had a value of $20, which I thought to be quite low. Orge Battle at $20 seemed pretty low too.

But the biggest thing was that I didn't see alot of games that I expected to see. Stuff like Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid stuff like that. I know that alot of those games are quite common, but I still think they pull decent money on Ebay and other places.


But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

[Kroogah]

Um...moving to the Collector's Guide forum.

[Gapporin]

Well, you have to remember that DP prices are on the low side as well. Therefore, $15 for Zelda: LttP isn't a steal of a deal, but it certainly isn't a crying shame, either.

[Anthony1]

ok, if anybody wants to sell me some carts based on how DP's rarity guide values SNES carts, then I would like these


1. Super Metroid - R1 $5.00 - I understand that this game is common, but $5? No way, I can't get it for less than $17 or more on Ebay.

2. Super Adventure Island - R1 $4.00 - This game consistently goes for around $13 to $16 or so. So if anybody wants to sell me one for $4.00, then PM me PLEASE!

3. Joe & Mac - R1 $3.00 - If anybody wants to sell me this for $3.00 then let me know!!!

[Anthony1]

Well, you have to remember that DP prices are on the low side as well. Therefore, $15 for Zelda: LttP isn't a steal of a deal, but it certainly isn't a crying shame, either.


I'm not sure if you understood correctly. DP values it at $5. I bought it at $15.



So if the valuation of $5 is really correct, then I got totally hoodwinked! But I have to think that DP isn't taking Ebay into account at all. Or the recent surge in retro collecting.

[scooterb23]

First off, Ebay is only good to show what people are willing to pay for an item at a specific time, not what an item is actually worth. Be sure to keep those separate. One desperate soccer mom can throw things off for months ;)

Second keep in mind that it is the DP Rarity GUIDE...use it as such, a guide to help you as a collector in the big bad scary world of video games. Values aren't set in stone...they are fluid. Right now I know in my area, SNES and N64 carts are dirt dirt dirt cheap, but that can change. $15 for LttP doesn't sound bad to me...although I can and have found it for $5 and less before, prices are a YMMV thing. Pay for a game what you feel comfortable with, and don't cry if you paid a few bucks more than the DP guide value.

Heck, I'm working on collecting for Gameboy right now, and I look at the DP guide and see games for $1 and $2, but there isn't a place around me that has a game under $5. It doesn't bother me...I just focus on trying to get the best deals I can, and enjoy the collection. Although I do need to get moving on it...I want to be over 300 games by the end of the year, and I've stalled at 55 :P

As always, remember to have fun with it, and don't think too much about the money aspect.

[maxlords]

I've bought all those games for those prices....more than once too.

[squirrelnut]

I don't get why people are so afraid to over pay on something. The true value is what it's worth to you. Bubble Bath Babes isn't worth 600 bucks at all. Every single game is worth the exact same. NOTHING. If someone won't buy it, then it is worth nothing.

The DP guide is just a rarity guide with prices added. That's like going to mcdonalds and complaining there chicken isn't as good as KFC's.

Plus prices fluctuate every month so I really doubt they're too worried about the current market value vs rarity value.


Just my 2 peso's

[Naouruki]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

[DigitalSpace]

2. Super Adventure Island - R1 $4.00 - This game consistently goes for around $13 to $16 or so. So if anybody wants to sell me one for $4.00, then PM me PLEASE!

3. Joe & Mac - R1 $3.00 - If anybody wants to sell me this for $3.00 then let me know!!!

I got my copy of Joe & Mac for $2 and Super Adventure Island for $6.

[Mayhem]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

I always take prices to be slightly on the low side as to be... and I quote from myself "the minimum price you should expect to pay to obtain the game in question". eBay and other places are liable to push it up. Thrift stores that have no clue what they have (especially when they sell loose copies of Fun 'n Games for example for $6) will keep it down.

I think people sometimes look at eBay and factor the prices on there too much into their thinking... there ARE other ways to get games now ;)

[kevincure]

Mayhem is dead on - the DP prices aren't meant to be ebay prices, but rather prices that are seen relatively often. I know there are a number of trade meets where DP prices are used (to compare values of big trades), and it's tough to think of games that can't be found at DP prices with a little searching. Ebay should be considered the high-end price for rarer/demanded items, and the low-end price for cheap/not demanded items.

[digitalpress]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

OUCH.

This entire forum is for people to point out issues, errors, corrections, suggestions, etc for the guide. NO ONE thinks it is the "Holy Guide" and ALL OF US know it is flawed.

Take a look around and try contributing something positive before making similar assinine statements in the future. Thank you.

[maxlords]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

Huh? I don't think we think that. I certainly don't swear by the guide as the only prices. I'm just saying that I've gotten all those games that cheap in the past.

[hydr0x]

Take a look around and try contributing something positive before making similar assinine statements in the future. Thank you.

sadly he is not the only one to think that way, i have been observing a lot of this attitude towards our Guide lately on other boards (even got bashed myself once for it), somehow people get the feeling we would think the DPCG is perfect, i know we do not think that way, but maybe we could do something to show people we aren't... dunno, just an idea (no idea what we could do about it though!)

[digitalpress]

Take a look around and try contributing something positive before making similar assinine statements in the future. Thank you.

sadly he is not the only one to think that way, i have been observing a lot of this attitude towards our Guide lately on other boards (even got bashed myself once for it), somehow people get the feeling we would think the DPCG is perfect, i know we do not think that way, but maybe we could do something to show people we aren't... dunno, just an idea (no idea what we could do about it though!)

It is your job as a DP Editor to point them to the book's text which belies what they think WE think, and to the online database FAQ which clearly states our philosophies on pricing and scarcity.

[sniperCCJVQ]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

Same goes for all those "Ebayers" :

Is it at least slightly possible for 'Ebayers' to admit that the Holy Ebay MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

Bottom line, the guide is there for the RARITY and not for the price.

[hydr0x]

It is your job as a DP Editor to point them to the book's text which belies what they think WE think, and to the online database FAQ which clearly states our philosophies on pricing and scarcity.

Joe do you really think i didn't do that? the problem is that despite this there are still more and more people thinking that way

[digitalpress]

It is your job as a DP Editor to point them to the book's text which belies what they think WE think, and to the online database FAQ which clearly states our philosophies on pricing and scarcity.

Joe do you really think i didn't do that? the problem is that despite this there are still more and more people thinking that way

Um... there's nothing we can do about the ignorant, Jan! Let them be.

[Spartacus]

I stumbled into an $8 almost complete Legend of Zelda (missing the map) at an EB games store (of all places!) a few weeks ago. But honestly, I was suprised by it. You know what else suprised me? I dug around a little and came up with a loose Clayfighter Tournament Edition and a Chavez II for $4 apiece there too. But what REALLY blew me away was seeing they wanted $29.95 for a Super Metroid cart! @_@

I remember when I first bought the Advanced Edition I often thought the prices were inaccurate. In fact I can remember that they even used to piss me off a little! I've actually come to put a little more faith in the prices of VGC because, as far as I can tell it's done by the same price analysis team, but it's printed quarterly and argueably it can do a better job of tracking market fluctuations. And there are some differences between the two with DP usually being a little bit lower.

Anyway, both list SCD Keio Flying Squadron in the $60-$70 range . I paid twice that. But I was having a hard time seeing ANY copies for sale and I wanted it NOW so I paid more for it. It really only means I wasn't willing to wait any longer. I've come to the conclusion that DP's suggested prices do not reflect the wiley niley price of the week on Ebay, but rather what you might expect to pay if you show some patience and are willing to put a little effort into it.

To make an opposite example, last weekend I drove about an hour to a small flea market and I found a booth with a few complete SCD games on the table. She asked a buck a piece for them. Third World War, Star Wars, and Cliffhanger. All well below DP's price guide. To me it didn't mean the DP price guide is crazy, it just meant that I could enjoy a sense of confidence that I came upon a pretty good deal.

[anagrama]

sadly he is not the only one to think that way, i have been observing a lot of this attitude towards our Guide lately on other boards (even got bashed myself once for it), somehow people get the feeling we would think the DPCG is perfect, i know we do not think that way, but maybe we could do something to show people we aren't... dunno, just an idea (no idea what we could do about it though!)

I think I know the discussion you're referring to ;)
Should have told them to come back and show us when they've written a better guide. (So we can then go search through hundreds/thousands of entries and find one or two that are (debatably) inaccurate, thus "invalidating the whole thing" :roll: )

I think one illusion that some people elsewhere seem to be under is that the DP Guides are "only" about the prices and rarity values, whereas I'm sure the vast majority here want them primarily to have all the information in one handy place and use them as intended - a guideline.
After all, the raw info is all in the database, so why would anyone buy them if it was just about the numbers?

[RangerG]

I think the DP guide is right on for what it says it is - a guide. It is an estimation and it takes into account wild finds, trade meets, buying in lots, etc. What you are also forgetting about Ebay is that you are talking about bidding on one game. What if I buy a nice lot off Ebay? If you divide the games by the price you will get some rares very inexpensively. Buying one game off of Ebay is the high-end way to buy and should not be the end-all of a game's price.

[Richter Belmount]

on the contrary I spotted chrono trigger and ff3 for snes for 25 bucks each at my local game crazy :P

[Anthony1]

ok, if the DP guide then is just a "guide", on games and how rare they are, and one shouldn't read too much into the prices listed, does anybody know of a really, really good "price" guide for games?


Ideally, I would love to see a guide that gave several different prices for every game, based on different scenarios.

For example, it would have a price for a complete game, as well as a loose cart. Sometimes the difference between the two can be super dramatic, and it would be good to have a decent idea between the valuations of loose carts and complete games. Also, it would be nice if they would include a "typical Ebay price".

I understand that Ebay prices are constantly fluctuating, and that one auction with somebody that dramatically overpays can throw things off, or a auction that for some reason nobody pays attention to, and the game goes for a really low price. But I would imagine that if you averaged the amount that a certain game sells for in 40 different auctions, you will get a pretty good idea of the average price that a game fetches on Ebay.


Another good category to include would be "retail". Like if the game was at a GameCrazy or a GameStop or EB games, what it would likely sell for.


That would be a sweet pricing guide. But I totally understand that the work involved in making one would be astronomical.


1. Complete price
2. Loose price
3. Typical Ebay Price
4. Retail price.

[brykasch]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest. My collection could be worthless tomorrow and I wouldn't care, as its the game I love, not the monetary part of it.

Having said that, most of the prices I have found to be pretty on, with soem exceptions. People always over pay for RPG's, and highly recognizeable games (Super Metroid, Super Mario All Stars , Zelda etc) but I say on about 80% of gmaes its right on imho. WE do need to start having values of boxed as well as loose though, makes things alot better.

[Anthony1]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest. My collection could be worthless tomorrow and I wouldn't care, as its the game I love, not the monetary part of it.

Having said that, most of the prices I have found to be pretty on, with soem exceptions. People always over pay for RPG's, and highly recognizeable games (Super Metroid, Super Mario All Stars , Zelda etc) but I say on about 80% of gmaes its right on imho. WE do need to start having values of boxed as well as loose though, makes things alot better.


I love the games to. I actually don't really collect games, I just play them. The reason that I'm trying to find out about prices, is to buy games that maybe I'm not actually interested in myself, but they happen to be valuable, and I can either sell them or trade them to get games or hardware that I want.

It's more of me wanting something to take with me to Garage Sales, Flea Markets, Retail stores, mom and pop stores, stuff like that. So that when I'm browsing around their selection, if I happen to see a cart that they are selling for a couple of bucks, that I know is worth like $30, that I will buy it, and later sell or trade it for a game or something that I really want.

I'm actually in the process of making my own little SNES and Genny list to use when I shop, but I'm certainly no expert.

[Griking]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

I agree that the guide's prices aren't always reflection of a game's real worth. I know that many here disagree with me but I always believed that eBay is a much better guide because this it what people are actually paying for an item. Granted, you can't look at the absolute highest price that a game sells for on eBay and say that this is its value but these nuke bids DO factor into the average.

Either way though I love the guide and use mine regularly. Its great as a game rarity (not value) tool while out at tag sales and flea markets and its also a convienant way to keep a handy list of the games that I have and those that I need.

[brykasch]

No don't take that to mean that I was impling you were a profiteer, I wasn't trying to say that at all Anthony, I'm just saying I have seen it happen to far to many hobbies, and ruined em. I remember in the early 90's with Wizard and all the speculation in the comic book industry, drove alot of good companies out due to stupid profiteering.

I really don't use ebay as a comparison. I mean some games that are uber rare dont sell on Ebay for alot, but others that arean't can go for huge amounts for no reason. Its too wild imho. I use the guide as a jumping off point, but to mee the guide is more for information, than values. Hell I woulda never knew how much the extertainmen/ mountain bike rally game for snes was worth or the rarity if it wasn't for the guide and this site.

[imanerd0011]

I personally think that the DP guide prices are on the low end, but there rarity guide is pretty much dead (at least for the NES). Most of the games that you are talking about (Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 1&2)can be found in the wild if you wait long enough, mainly because there are so many of them out there. They are in high demand, and many people don't want to wait to get one, so they pay top dollar on Ebay. That is why the prices are so damn high.
Although I do think that Megaman X3 is worth a good deal more than $25.

[vintagegamecrazy]

I agree that the prices are on the lower end, which is fine by me. Some prices may be wrong but that is why we should point them out and find a good average, I use the guide pretty much as the Bible, I know it's not perfect, but there are several others that do the same thing and they are noticably off and it's too hard to always remember your own prices for games and if I use the DP guides, I can usually get a good price on items. I will point out a few prices that should be changed.

Chrono Trigger, the average is usually around $35
Ogre Battle I have never seen it go for less than 40
Mega Man X3 has never gone for less than $40

The rest IMO are pretty close.

Keep up the good work all, don't let people discourage you, remermber beckets are done at a production level, the DP guide is done at a consumer level, and it is the best guage I've ever seen.

[Anthony1]

Keep up the good work all, don't let people discourage you,


I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but my post wasn't really a criticism of the rarity guide, I know that it's a imperfect science, and that tons of work went into that guide.

The reason I started this thread is because I was looking through the SNES prices and a number of them seemed to be really off. I've used the guides for alot of the other systems, and they seem pretty accurate, but the SNES prices seem way on the low side.

But I wasn't trying to discourage anybody or complain about it. I was just wondering if it was me, and if I was crazy or something. But it does appear that most agree that the SNES prices seem to be somewhat on the low side.

[Aussie2B]

Well, it's good that it's on the low side. Would you want it to be higher, causing everyone to be willing to pay more, and thus the prices of games go up? I think the prices should be as low as they can possibly be before they become unreasonable.

I've many times paid more than what the guide says, and even then I feel like I'm getting a good deal. While I don't think eBay is the be all to end all on pricing, I do consider it a lot when shopping. I look at completed auctions, find the lowest amounts a game went for, and if I can find it for even less than that, I feel I've done good. At least then I know I can sell it back and break even or make a profit. Granted, prices can go down, but since I rarely sell (only unwanted duplicates, which get sold very shortly after buying), it's no biggie if the value goes down on a game I'm keeping anyway.

The rarity guide is nice because it balances eBay with retail prices and reasonable prices you'll find in thrifts and such. Chances are if you get a game for what it says in the guide you've probably done well by eBay standards as well.

[D_N_G]

Lets also point out people that it has been almost a year since the prices were initially averaged out things tend to change over time

And as said many times in this post. If Ebay is your only guideline, then you have an askew view of pricing.

[Kid Ice]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Got mine at a flea for $2. It's been in my trade box for a while, but no takers yet.

The thing about Zelda and Super Metroid is they are very, very common. They were produced in great quantities and sold well. When a game is that common it increases the chances that you can get one at a good price. You would have a hard time arguing that they are not both R1.

As for price, I wouldn't call overpaying by ten dollars getting "taken to the cleaners", especially if the game was one you really wanted.

So your point here is lost on me. DP Guide value is $5, one person pays $10 more than that, so the guide price has to change?

As for other games you mentioned, like Final Fantasy 3 and Chrono Trigger, it's been well established that people have overpaid for those games on eBay. I agree that the guide prices are on the low side (even with the "prices are on the low side" disclaimer), but not enough that I would argue they should be changed. Not WAY too low.

[Anthony1]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Got mine at a flea for $2. It's been in my trade box for a while, but no takers yet.

The thing about Zelda and Super Metroid is they are very, very common. They were produced in great quantities and sold well. When a game is that common it increases the chances that you can get one at a good price. You would have a hard time arguing that they are not both R1.

As for price, I wouldn't call overpaying by ten dollars getting "taken to the cleaners", especially if the game was one you really wanted.

So your point here is lost on me. DP Guide value is $5, one person pays $10 more than that, so the guide price has to change?

As for other games you mentioned, like Final Fantasy 3 and Chrono Trigger, it's been well established that people have overpaid for those games on eBay. I agree that the guide prices are on the low side (even with the "prices are on the low side" disclaimer), but not enough that I would argue they should be changed. Not WAY too low.



Well, I think that games that are common as dirt shoud be R1's. And I would agree that Zelda and Metroid and Contra 3 and Castlevania 4 and games like that fit that description and they shoud be R1's.

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

[hydr0x]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

[Kid Ice]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

That wasn't what I meant.

If a game is R1 that increases the chances you can find it for a low price.

That doesn't mean it's automatically only worth a dollar or 5 dollars.

[lancelet]

I am totally confused by this post.

I know I'm a newbie (actually not really-just moved away and back and re-registered.) But as a diehard enthusiast of classic games i'm suprised that so many people have pointed towards "inaccuracies" in the DP Rarity Guide. It has some prices next to the rarities to give a ballpark figure.

If you are into retro gaming, then KLOV, DP, and MAME are possibly our greatest resources readily available. And free. :) In fact the DP Guide is an "R10" one-of-a-kind database as far as I can tell. So I'm really not sure what a handful of people find wrong with the prices.

Think the prices are too low? What are you comparing it to?
I've read the evidence from those that say the prices are wrong (again, not many posters-but more than I thought). And here's my measly take:
Data Collection like this will never be up-to-date as far as prices go. It can't possibly be.

Obviously Santulli and Crew realize that the prices are estimates. They have a disclaimer that covers it all. But I think many people seem perplexed that some prices are so far off of what they've seen either "in the wild" or online.
But there is no set price for any of these things. some people have pointed to market fluctuation as the reason for these precieved inaccuarcies. But if that was the only reason the prices would be spot-on right after each update.

My two cents on all this:

Ist cent; As they say in Politics: "It's' The Economy, Stupid"*
Or rather, classic game prices depend upon which economic model a certain system or game is located. There are many different economies at work in this hobby
:
Auction Economy-you sacrifice paying more for a wide selection.

Barter Economy- trade stuff you either don't want or have too many of for something you do what. ideally this is a symbiotic form of economics, as both partys forgoe monetary concerns and just swap stuff the other wants.

Retail Economy-only works when buying new. No concern here-just pointing out that retail is the economy as far as most are concerned. Almost all of the stuff we lust was retail at one time. But this economic model has huge downsides-slim profit for the seller and higher, yet most consistent price-point for the consumer. Why even bring it up? Because I want people to think about what percentage of your collection was truly obtained this way. I'll return to this in a moment...

Second-Hand Retail Economy-used games stores. Taxed and treated like retail products, only used. Priced at whatever the market will bear. Higher profit on a lower scale than Retail. products are used and prices are cheaper but nowhere near as consistent. And at a cost of less consistent quality.

Yard Sales and Flea markets-hard to find a specific item but the seller is largely unaware of the video game market. Sacrifice time, lack of customer service, and untested products. Possibly even Bootlegs or downright ripoffs at some flea markets. But is the only time you can meet a single person who will ask $100 for a $5 sofa and $5 for a $100 game.

damn I said 2 cents right? O_O

2nd cent:

When you are comparing prices from what you see in DP's Guide and what you see in a store and notice you can't find a game for anywhere near the price listed, it doesn't mean that you have just proven this book wrong (as it never claims to quote correct prices). What kind of evidence is this?
Well, ask any quality scientist about "evidence" and be prepared to hear the terms Anecdotal and Empirical:

Anecdotal evidence is someone who tells you he just saw bigfoot. Empirical evidence is a dead bigfoot carcass. Why is that even important in this case?
Because all evidence presented here that the prices are wrong is anecdotal One person saying they are seeing game "X" for "Y" amount of money is anectotal evidence. A great deal found by someone at a flea market is anecdotal.

Empirical Evidence must be quantifiable. And only one of the economic models I listed above can even come close to consistently providing empirical evidence as to the value of games: The Retail Model. Empirical evidence: Sega's 2K Sports Franchise each sell new for $19.99. The price is preset in a very controlled and regulated environment. So there's an accurate value of a line of gaming titles. But again, what percentage of your collections are bought brand new? I'll use some anecdotal evidence and say around 10% or less. Just what I've noticed.

So what is a certain game worth?
It depend on the wildy differing aspects of of flea markets, second hand stores, auctions, trades, and various dynamics that are not quantifiable. So there really is no empirical source for valuations of these tousands of items that have been so carefully put together on this site.

This thread started with someone listing anecdotal evidence that certain games were undervalued, followed soon after by more anecdotal evidence that showed some of those very games to to be overvalued.

The truth is that some people are attempting to view the prices as empirical values that Joe Santulli gleaned from...ummm, aw, hell I can't even think of a metaphor or idea as to where one can find empirical data on old video game equipment pricing. The prices are gathered from various sources. almost all is accumulated through anecdotal means. There is no set value to the stuff we collect. It all depends on which path you took to aquire it.

It's a Rarity Guide, and as far as I know it is the most complete in the English language. So instead reading too much into the prices, just use it as the only one available. The valuations aren't outlandish. I doubt they've got Stadium Events listed for ten bucks. Throw in the rarity guide aspect and it a fantastic reference. If you see an R1 listed for six dollars right next to an R5 listed at the same amount, then that's a clue that that is one popular common and one not-so-popular uncommon. And that's the value of the guide. Rarity and possible valuations can be compared head-to-head. The deal you make is up to you. But at least you're most likely armed with more knowledge than the seller.










* I'm sure this is a common expression in all English speaking countries. If not, I'm not callling anyone here stupid. :P

[Anthony1]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience


Sure, in certain cities one can find these types of games for 5 bucks or less at various flea markets and pawn shops, but the reality is that in certain cities this is not the case. But your take regarding "patience" is probably pretty accurate. True, if somebody waits long enough, and searches long enough, they can eventually get most common games for low prices, but if you consider time to be money, then all that time searching around and the gas that you use. Think about that. The gas that you use. Gas is absolutely astronomical in price nowadays, if you have to drive all over town to search for particular games, when you add in the factor of the gas that you are using, the price could actually be much more than you would have imagined.


So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

[drewbrim]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest.

There already is. It's called Video Game Collector, and there's a link to it on the front page of DP. It has different prices for loose and complete and it even has arrows next to certain games pointing up or down depending on whether the value is rising or falling. So if your afraid of the "video game beckett" get ready to run.

I'm pretty sure the mag started with the DP price guide (since Joe is listed as the price guide group editor) and then added some ebay inflations for certain popular games. Such as Earthbound $55, Final Fantasy 2 $30, FF3 $33, Mega Man X2 $50, Mega Man X3 $60 etc...

[hydr0x]

So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

see, this is the wrong approach, there are very few times where i am searching for a specific game, i'm going to fleas, i'm watching ebay, i'm looking though stores WITHOUT searching for a specific title, i would go there anyway so you can't add the gas costs or whatever to the price or even think about it, i have a wishlist of around 2500 titles that interest me, i don't care which of those i find as long as they fit into my collection. If you want a specific title right now, go to ebay and buy it, there is no other option for that! But there can and should never be a price guide for that, it makes no sense at all, if that price guide uses last weeks ebay prices than you don't need it as you could see that by yourself looking at the finished auctions

[jajaja]

What are the prices in the guide based on?

[digitalpress]

What are the prices in the guide based on?

EVERYTHING.

Game shops' "used" prices, our team's personal finds, trades, and deals, online game sites, online auctions, and common sense among the variables.

[digitalpress]

So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

Wow.

Well listen, Anthony. All I can say is this is a COLLECTOR'S Guide. Collectors on the whole are very patient people. We'd all be broke if we needed to have everything we want right away. The Guide, and its prices, are for those who are willing to wait and want to pay a game's actual value, and not a penny above it.

Another thing I need to note here - this criticism has come up many many times over the years. At one point in the mid-90's we even dropped the prices (keeping only rarity ratings) from our book. That was clearly a bad idea from the response we got.

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?

Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.

[Griking]

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?
Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.

So are the prices in the guide kepy aritficially low in order to try keep collectable game prices lower than they should be or are you just saying that this is a side effect?

[digitalpress]

So are the prices in the guide kepy aritficially low in order to try keep collectable game prices lower than they should be or are you just saying that this is a side effect?

Artificially low? No. But when there are a dozen prices for a particular item (excluding very high and very low "outliers"), the lowest price is usually kept.

Again, quoting the oft-quoted text in the book and online guide FAQ:

If you’ve been collecting for awhile, inevitably you’ve run into a situation where you want to buy a game from someone and they tell you to “make them an offer”. Here’s the toughest part of the game: you don’t want to offer too low and insult the seller... and you don’t want to offer too high and screw yourself. OUR prices are on the low side, such that you are guaranteed not to insult anyone with our offer.

[vintagegamecrazy]

digitalpress wrote:
We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?
Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.




Joe about summed it up, we don't want to falsely inflate the prices of games so it's good to stay low.

Anthony I didn't mean anything towards you in my last post, I have seen other non fourm members flame the guide and database and I was gearing that message towards them.

Also if you want to point out errors, make a list of a few games and post them here, don't just say the whole guide is off for SNES. You can come up with a valid topic that way and the SNES editors can investigate into that topic and make necessary changes to the select few titles that seem off. I point out errors and descrepancies all the time and we can usually find a resolution and not get upset with eachother. I'm not trying to criticize you for you thread, don't take this wrong, I am just trying to offer some advice to you if you notice errors.

[anagrama]

Does this thread make anyone else want to bang their head against a wall?

[digitalpress]

Does this thread make anyone else want to bang their head against a wall?

No, why?

[anagrama]

No, why?

Eh, maybe not - I was referring to the "DP keeps prices artificially low to depress the market" stuff, but somehow missed the comments after that.

nm ;)

[Griking]

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know".

I don't know, I kind of have mixed feelings about this. It sounds like what you're saying that you're doing here is going from just reporting the market value of a game to using the guide to actually manipulate market value.

I don't think that the prices in the guide should be kept down in any way just to ensure that collectors can still get the "great deals" that they're accustomed to getting. Shop owners using the guide to set game prices has to be expected as its popularity grows but I don't think that the prices in the guide should be modified in any way because of this.

[studvicious]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Well I won't call you that.. but I did get Zelda: Alttp for $4.99 at EB games a month or two ago.

[anagrama]

I don't know, I kind of have mixed feelings about this. It sounds like what you're saying that you're doing here is going from just reporting the market value of a game to using the guide to actually manipulate market value.


We do try to judge a fair "market value" for each game. It just happens that this is generally less than the going eBay rate, which for several reasons, mostly discussed above, is usually over-inflated. No 'manipulation' involved.

If you want to know the eBay price, look at eBay. If you want to know the DP-judged 'market value', check the books. Simple.

If the DP price was based on the going eBay rate, then that would be the starting price that dealers using the books would go by.

Would you prefer to be charged the 'going eBay rate' (or more) for every cart you find in Joe Blogg's Game Store? Thought not.

[Raedon]

There is not ONE game mentioned here that I did not get for $3-$5.. Your low is my high Anthony.

Zelda:ALTTP is VERY common and a simple find as well as almost everything mentioned but FF-II... Though I got that at a pawn for $4.00..

[Raedon]

man, I'm glad I don't collect baseball cards.

[Keir]

Well listen, Anthony. All I can say is this is a COLLECTOR'S Guide. Collectors on the whole are very patient people. We'd all be broke if we needed to have everything we want right away. The Guide, and its prices, are for those who are willing to wait and want to pay a game's actual value, and not a penny above it.
The problem is that every collector is different. You've got people who collect for completion and those who just want the good games so they can play them. There are the Iron Draggons who need everything sealed and mint and the scooterb23s who prefer loose games over boxed/complete ones.

More to the point, there is a whole range of collectors from people who pay top dollar so they can get exactly what they want when they want it to people who scour fleas and thrifts every day looking for the best deals. For the former group, ebaY is the best price guide. For the latter, a price guide would probably look like this:

All games = $1

I believe the DPG target audience is the "moderately hard-working" collector. Not quite the second scenario I described, but far removed from the first. If that doesn't describe you then keep that in mind and adjust the prices accordingly when shopping.

[digitalpress]

[I don't think that the prices in the guide should be kept down in any way just to ensure that collectors can still get the "great deals" that they're accustomed to getting. Shop owners using the guide to set game prices has to be expected as its popularity grows but I don't think that the prices in the guide should be modified in any way because of this.

They're not modified, my man. As I mentioned in one of my posts somewhere buried in this thread, we simply use the lower end and that's AFTER outliers are stripped out of the equation.

The philosophy is sound, trust me on this.

[scooterb23]

and the scooterb23s who prefer loose games over boxed/complete ones.

Awww shucks, and here I thought noone had noticed ;)

[esquire]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

That logic is a bit flawed. At fleas or pawns, any game can be purchased for $5, regardless of rarity, because most fleas and pawns don't distinguish between a R1 game and a R7 game, and charge a flat fee for all games for a certain console. For instance, you could pick up a Madden 96 and Aero the Acro-bat 2 for the Sega Genesis for $2.99 a piece. A flea, pawn or thrift isn't going to know the difference there. The only time they may charge more is for a recognizable franchise such as Mario, Zelda, etc. So if you're saying R1's should be priced at $5 because they are available at that amount at fleas and pawns, you would have to price R7s at the same price using that logic.

As for the ebay factor, I believe we as collectors need to start taking it into consideration as to the value of a game. More and more people are using ebay every day, and it is affecting our ability to purchase games at garage sales, thrifts, fleas and pawns. Every week I see threads in here about people complaining about how they can't get good deals because pawns and thrifts are using ebay as a guide to price their items. As the internet is readily available to most people, I see the same thing happening with garage sales. Also, more and more thrifts, like Goodwill and Salvation Army, are setting up their own online auctions. We can't ignore or dismiss the changing face of video game collecting.

As for those of you who dismiss ebay prices because of the irregularity and inconsistency, so should you dismiss thrifts, pawns and fleas as they are not accurate pricing systems either. Just because the local Salvation Army is selling Saturn sports games for $8 doesn't it mean they are worth that much, and just because I can pick up a R7 PSX game for $3, doesn't mean its only worth $3. You can't have it both ways.

I also agree with Anthony1 that less rare games can have higher prices than more rare games. Why? Simple - Popularity and Demand. Take for example the R7 game I found earlier at Salvation Army for $3 - Power Serve 3D Tennis. Now, that game is a R7 in the Advanced Guide but the value is only $10. There are nearly 3 full pages of games worth more than $10 but with a lower rarity on the online guide, including R1's and R2's. Thus, just because a game has a lower production run and there are less of them out there doesn't always translate into higher prices. This is clearly the case here. People won't pay a lot for sports game for the most part, even though its a R7. However, people will pay more for Mario Bros./Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, Combat, Sonic, etc. even though they are less rare. The average consumer doesn't care about rarity for the most part. They want the popular games. And as the popular games sell, so goes the price.

Additionally, rarities don't have specific pricing. For example, all R5's are not going to be priced the same. One game may go for $15 and another $50. Thus, just because a game is listed as a RX doesn't mean that its worth $X. There are price variations within a rarity rating itself. For example, Silent Bomber and Rollcage are both R6's for the PSX. However, Silent Bomber is valued at $20 while Rollcage is only valued at $8.

Thus, the Guides may be accurate as to rarity, but the prices are not always necessarily taking into account other factors besides rarity such as popularity and demand. Other considerations include regional factors and population density. Chances are if you are a gamer in say Montana, you are not going to find as many rarities at pawns, thrifts, fleas, etc as say someone in a more densely populated area.

So you have to take the guide for what it is. As stated in the Introduction, the dollar value is the "suggested purchase price." Assuming all things being equal, I think for the most part it serves that purpose.

[Griking]

Would you prefer to be charged the 'going eBay rate' (or more) for every cart you find in Joe Blogg's Game Store? Thought not.

No, I wouldn't but a buyer always wants to pay as little as humanly possible for any product they purchase. Besides, what I want to be charged shouldn't have any bearing on what a game is actually valued at and sold for either. A game is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. If a game is over priced then it won't sell. If it sells then it obviously wasn't over-priced.

[bargora]

Everybody who's bitching about the DPG listed prices should go back to page 2 and actually read lancelet's excellent (if lengthy) post.

There is not one market for video games. There are many markets. As Joe has pointed out, the values listed are based on an aggregation of data from the different markets, and so may not be an accurate reflection of what you see in any particular market (e.g., ebay).

So you see different values in different markets. I don't know why you'd expect anything different. Especially with ebay, where (for example) two n00bs located anywhere in the world with a simultaneous hard-on for Klonoa can push an auction above $100.

[hydr0x]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

That logic is a bit flawed. At fleas or pawns, any game can be purchased for $5, regardless of rarity, because most fleas and pawns don't distinguish between a R1 game and a R7 game, and charge a flat fee for all games for a certain console.

ok, i have no idea where this old topic came from, but i need to reply to this

it is not flawed, see, i know you can basically get every game for 1-5 bucks, no matter how rare it is. What i meant is that you can get every R1 game that cheap within a few weeks, a higher rarity would take much longer or maybe never show up. A R1 though, everyone can find it cheap without having too wait to long. A game you can easily get for 5 bucks within a few weeks of hunting just can't be listed as 15 bucks just because that's the ebay price, that's my point. On the other hand, some R8 that costs 200 on ebay that you MIGHT BE ABLE to find for 5 bucks if you search for years should obviously be ~200 bucks because the only way to get it cheaper is by pure chance.