Ultimate Shmup System Battle - Sega Saturn vs. PC Engine!

[Anthony1]

Ok, here it is. The Ultimate battle of the ultimate shmup game systems. The PC Engine/Turbografx-16/Duo, etc, etc, vs. Sega Saturn (USA/Japan).


There is no question that the Sega Saturn is a abolutely amazing shooter system. It has some incredible shooters on it. Mostly in Japan.

But then, when you think about the PC Engine/TG-16/Duo, those systems have some absolutely ridiculous shooters. I mean, it ain't even funny how many shooters those systems have on Hu cards and CD's. Especially Super CD's.


You also have to give the NEC systems extra love considering the time when their technology hit, compared to the Sega Saturn. The Saturn hit in very late 1994, with the PC Engine first appearing in October of 1987 in Japan, a full 7 years earlier. Pretty amazing if you think about that.


Does it sound like I'm biased? Well actually I am. I love the Saturn to death, it has amazing shooters, but the whole PC Engine/TG-16 Era is just freaking ridiculous. I mean, it's no freaking joke.

[MegaDrive20XX]

PC Engine hands down...the King of Shooters...nuff said'

Yet Saturn can be compared to PSX at times when you break it down.

Since I perfer the PC Engine for shooters, I'm gonna stick with that

[Kid Ice]

Where's "Are you kidding? Saturn."?

So, uhhh....Saturn.

[Anthony1]

PC Engine hands down...the King of Shooters...nuff said'

Yet Saturn can be compared to PSX at times when you break it down.

Since I perfer the PC Engine for shooters, I'm gonna stick with that



no doubt. PC Engine is F'ing absolutely ridiculous. I had no freaking idea. I'm in a state of shock right now. So many great shooters, it's so overwhelming. I've known the Saturn was great with Shmups, knew that for a while, but man, just recently discovered that the PC Engine is the absolute bomb if you have the slightest interest in shooters.


I highly suggest that people get the Magic Engine emulator, and then get all the freaking Roms from Japan and the U.S., the cream of the crop, play the crap out of it, and then come back to me and tell me that you didn't "Bow Down to a playa that is greata than you".

Even if you hate emulators. Just get Magic Engine, get the roms, all the great ones from Japan. Games like Final Soldier and Download and Gradius and all the other amazing shooters.

I know that this sytem is an extremely expensive system to collect for. Just to play the Japanese Hu cards costs a lot, in a converter or a internal mod. Then you got to buy the Hu cards and very inflated prices. Even the U.S. games aren't really cheap. Then the CD systems are where it's at, and those are very expensive as well, and the software is very expensive on CD too.

It's a very expensive system to get into, but at least try the emulator and the roms, so you can see just how amazing this platform was.


"It's a great piece of kit, mate"

[Anthony1]

Where's "Are you kidding? Saturn."?

So, uhhh....Saturn.



Look, the Saturn is amazing, I will give it to you. It's amazing with shooters. I mean the system was 32 bit and it was made for games like that. Amazing color and sound, great control and playability, no slowdown or flickering.

No doubt that's a great choice.


But have you played any of the Super CD's from Japan? Stuff like Download 2 and Spirrigan.

I don't think so.






just kidding. I respect your choice.

[Kid Ice]

Where's "Are you kidding? Saturn."?

So, uhhh....Saturn.



Look, the Saturn is amazing, I will give it to you. It's amazing with shooters. I mean the system was 32 bit and it was made for games like that. Amazing color and sound, great control and playability, no slowdown or flickering.

No doubt that's a great choice.


But have you played any of the Super CD's from Japan? Stuff like Download 2 and Spirrigan.

I don't think so.






just kidding. I respect your choice.

Really? Something about the five enters between "I don't think so" and "just kidding" makes me think you don't mean it.

However, if you've played all the great Saturn shooters and all the great PCE shooters, you know more than me.

And most other people, which leads me to ask...why even post a poll?

If you already know the answer, and if most people don't have enough gaming experience to make an intelligent vote, why bother?

However, I find it really difficult to believe that *any* system has better shooters than the following:

Radiant Silvergun
Soukyuguerntai
Dodonpachi
Batsugun
Galactic Attack
Darius Gaiden

Man, I may be biased, but that is a FEARSOME set of shooters there. If you or anyone else can honestly say the PCE shooters are better, I better set my sights on getting one of those bad boys immediately!

[FurinkanianFrood]

PC Engine takes it, though the Saturn and Megadrive put up a quite a fight.

The quality and volume on PCE is unrivaled when SCDs are taken into account.



Yet Saturn can be compared to PSX at times when you break it down.


In what sense are they comparable? Many Saturn games are unrivaled by anything the PSX has, and not just in this genre. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure what you mean by that....

Some claim that the PSX version of Dodonpachi is better, but I think the scaling issue is only a problem on Saturn if it isn't played in tate mode (on a sideways RGB for instance).




Just to play the Japanese Hu cards costs a lot, in a converter or a internal mod. Then you got to buy the Hu cards and very inflated prices.



Converters and mods shouldn't factor into it anymore IMO. If someone is starting out they should just get a Japanese system. I don't think the prices for JP HuCards are all that inflated for some of the games. I would much rather pay those prices for PC Engine games than the junk littering the shelves these days. $50 for a PS2 game is overinflated.... but not for PCE games, and many of them are more like $20-30

The Saturn and the PCE are both freaking ridiculous, actually. :D



Radiant Silvergun
Soukyuguerntai
Dodonpachi
Batsugun
Galactic Attack
Darius Gaiden


Can't say I care for RS, but those other guys are real nice, though Galactic Attack isn't really my thing (probably just bias that comes from having seen what happened to that series later).

Don't forget:

Battle Garegga
Cotton Boomerang
Thunderforce V
S Parodius
Game Paradise
Gunbird
Sengoku Blade
Salamander/Thunder Force (DPack/Collections)
etc.
(list terminating early.... I don't want to ramble too long....)



If you or anyone else can honestly say the PCE shooters are better, I better set my sights on getting one of those bad boys immediately!


I can honestly say that its arguable. I would track down a PCE Duo if you can manage the cost..... I had a Saturn first myself. Gotta be able to play SCD's. I don't think it's worth bothering with US HuCards these days, the JP ones were made in much larger quantities, and adapters can be like hen's teeth.

[Steven]

I voted Saturn. I'm glad someone gave props to Gunbird. very overlooked. Also the two Strikers games and Sengoku Blade... GOOD STUFF

[drwily008]

I love the PC Engine! There are just so many perfect games on that system. Don't get me wrong, the Saturn has an awesome array, but it's not as good as the DUO to me.

[drwily008]

About the "modding" of PC Engines or buying a HU CARD adaptor. I never understood why people do this. JUST BUY A JAPANESE SYSTEM. They are cheap as hell.

You could even go with a PC Engine DUO and an American Turbo Grafx 16 to have the best of both worlds for WAY less than what an American DUO will cost.

[FurinkanianFrood]

I voted Saturn. I'm glad someone gave props to Gunbird. very overlooked. Also the two Strikers games and Sengoku Blade... GOOD STUFF


Many Psikyo games are underrated. Gunspike is another example IMO, though thats on DC of course.

[sportbettor]

I have almost all the good shooters for both the saturn and pcengine. My personal opinion is that if you only compare the Top Tier shooters. Saturn wins. RS, Souky etc. Theres nothing quite at that level on the PCE. Sapphire, the spriggan series, Gunhed, the Soldier series, parodius gradius etc are all very good, but just not quite as good as the very best saturn games.

Howeer if you look at breadth and depth of the catalog then pcengine wins. Theres more "good" shooters on that system than any ohter system this side of JAMMA.

[Anthony1]

About the "modding" of PC Engines or buying a HU CARD adaptor. I never understood why people do this. JUST BUY A JAPANESE SYSTEM. They are cheap as hell.



Define "cheap as hell".


Because I wouldn't mind getting a japanese one, if I can plug a TurboBooster into it.

The reason why is that I have a TurboBooster that was modded for R.G.B. output.

[blissfulnoise]

Soukyugurentai [Otokuyo]
Dodonpachi
Batsugun
+

Battle Garegga
+

Kyukyoku Tiger 2 Plus
Rayforce
And the Salamader/Gradius/Thunderforce comps.

For teh win.

Sorry, I've played Spriggan. I've played Download 2. I've played Rayzanber II and III. I've played TerraForming. (haven't played Sylphia).

They don't compare to Terra Diver.

And as fad as it is to bash Radiant Silvergun, I'll still defend it as one of the top 5 shooters ever made.

[sportbettor]

About the "modding" of PC Engines or buying a HU CARD adaptor. I never understood why people do this. JUST BUY A JAPANESE SYSTEM. They are cheap as hell.



Define "cheap as hell".


Because I wouldn't mind getting a japanese one, if I can plug a TurboBooster into it.

The reason why is that I have a TurboBooster that was modded for R.G.B. output.

If you get a pcengien you need to get the Pcengine av booster. The TG16 turbobooster will not work on a pcengine. The connector is completely different.

[Anthony1]

I have almost all the good shooters for both the saturn and pcengine. My personal opinion is that if you only compare the Top Tier shooters. Saturn wins. RS, Souky etc. Theres nothing quite at that level on the PCE. Sapphire, the spriggan series, Gunhed, the Soldier series, parodius gradius etc are all very good, but just not quite as good as the very best saturn games.

Howeer if you look at breadth and depth of the catalog then pcengine wins. Theres more "good" shooters on that system than any ohter system this side of JAMMA.


Also, I think you have to give the PC Engine somewhat of a break from the standpoint that the technology is way inferior to Saturn.


Off course the Saturn should have some kick ass shooters, simply because they are being done on a much, much more powerfull system.

Also, I agree that the PC Engine wins with sheer numbers of "really good shooters'.

The Saturn definitely has a number of Really, really, really good shooters, and then it also has alot of decent shooters, but the PC Engine has "really good" shooters for days and days and days.

On CD alone, I think there are like 50 Shooters that are worth playing. And then all of the ones on the Hu cards as well. It's almost like overkill.

[Anthony1]

About the "modding" of PC Engines or buying a HU CARD adaptor. I never understood why people do this. JUST BUY A JAPANESE SYSTEM. They are cheap as hell.



Define "cheap as hell".


Because I wouldn't mind getting a japanese one, if I can plug a TurboBooster into it.

The reason why is that I have a TurboBooster that was modded for R.G.B. output.

If you get a pcengien you need to get the Pcengine av booster. The TG16 turbobooster will not work on a pcengine. The connector is completely different.


Well, then I guess the hell with that. Because I would then need to send it to get modded for RGB, and that would increase the cost as well.

Maybe I should just pay the damn $125 and get the Flash Card and say the hell with it!

[sportbettor]

I have almost all the good shooters for both the saturn and pcengine. My personal opinion is that if you only compare the Top Tier shooters. Saturn wins. RS, Souky etc. Theres nothing quite at that level on the PCE. Sapphire, the spriggan series, Gunhed, the Soldier series, parodius gradius etc are all very good, but just not quite as good as the very best saturn games.

Howeer if you look at breadth and depth of the catalog then pcengine wins. Theres more "good" shooters on that system than any ohter system this side of JAMMA.


Also, I think you have to give the PC Engine somewhat of a break from the standpoint that the technology is way inferior to Saturn.


Off course the Saturn should have some kick ass shooters, simply because they are being done on a much, much more powerfull system.

Also, I agree that the PC Engine wins with sheer numbers of "really good shooters'.

The Saturn definitely has a number of Really, really, really good shooters, and then it also has alot of decent shooters, but the PC Engine has "really good" shooters for days and days and days.

On CD alone, I think there are like 50 Shooters that are worth playing. And then all of the ones on the Hu cards as well. It's almost like overkill.

Hey you get no argument from me Pcengine is my favorite system of all time followed by Saturn and Neo Geo.

[blissfulnoise]

Also, I think you have to give the PC Engine somewhat of a break from the standpoint that the technology is way inferior to Saturn.


Empty argument. If you're saying that the PC Engine shooters should be set on a grading curve to compete with the Saturn, you've already deflated your position.


Off course the Saturn should have some kick ass shooters, simply because they are being done on a much, much more powerful system.

See above.


Also, I agree that the PC Engine wins with sheer numbers of "really good shooters'.

sportbettor said "good" shooters. Not "really good". For every "good" shooter you can name on the PC Engine (SCD or otherwise), I can name one that isn't worth putting in your machine, much less buying.

(ok, that's a little extreme, but the point is there are quite a few very uninspired shooters on the platform, a larger ratio than on the Saturn).

Also, and this is really bothering me, that comment about playing stuff like Download 2 and Spriggan... "I don't think so" is really bothering me.

Have YOU played Battle Garegga? Have YOU played Batsugun? Have YOU played Terra Diver?

For you to be so one sided in your argument indicates that you haven't.

It's fine you want to discuss this, just lose the confrontational attitude.

[AB Positive]

Wait a minute... people play shmups on the Saturn?

*blissfully pops in Street Fighter Alpha 2*

-AG

[Dark Helmet]

Move along, nothing to see here..

[Dark Helmet]

Somebody said that he beleives that there are about 50 shmups on super cd for the pcengine.. Is this really thrue?!

For some reason I've always had the impression that the super cd platform were a niche kind of thing, with maybe 200 games released for it at most..

Can anyone direct me to a place on the web where I could get to see some of these shmups on supeer cd. (not "just" hucards..)

By the way, mega drive is very much overlooked when it comes to shmups..
Have a look at the xenocide files at shmups.com..

[drwily008]

I'm playing an excellent shooter right now on the PC Engine DUO call "Summer Carnival 92 Alzadick" It is amazing and has perfect modes for you and your competetive friends. Check it out as this one will be discovered as being more rare than it is listed (already an R6).

[ClubNinja]

Wait a minute... people play shmups on the Saturn?

*blissfully pops in Street Fighter Alpha 2*



Wait a minute... people play Street Fighter Alpha 2 on the Saturn?

*saddles up to arcade cabinet*

;)

[sportbettor]

Somebody said that he beleives that there are about 50 shmups on super cd for the pcengine.. Is this really thrue?!

For some reason I've always had the impression that the super cd platform were a niche kind of thing, with maybe 200 games released for it at most..

Can anyone direct me to a place on the web where I could get to see some of these shmups on supeer cd. (not "just" hucards..)

By the way, mega drive is very much overlooked when it comes to shmups..
Have a look at the xenocide files at shmups.com..

HEre is a list of shooters by platform from pcecp.com Just go to "catalog" and "advanced search. you can sort and search by parameters. There are alos screens of virtually ever game there.

I may have missed some stuff when I did the searches but heres a list of shooters by the platforms.

Pcengien SCD Games:

Ai Cho Aniki
CD Denjin Rockabilly Tengoku
Cho Aniki
Cotton
Cotton
Forgotten Worlds
Forgotten Worlds
Gate Of Thunder
God Panic Shijyou Saikyu Gundan
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou
Hawk F-123
Image Fight II
Kiaiden 00
Lords Of Thunder
Lords of Thunder Demo Disc
Metamor Jupiter
Nexzr
Psychic Storm
R-TYPE Complete CD
Rayxanber III
Space Invaders The Original Game
Spriggan Mark 2: Re Terraform Project
Star Parodia
Summer Carnival '93 - Nexzr Special
Super Air Zonk
Super Darius II
Super Raiden
Sylphia
Winds Of Thunder
Yu Yu Hakusho


here is a list of shooter hucards:
1943 Kai
Aero Blasters
After Burner II
Armed F
Atomic Robo-Kid Special
Barunba
Bouken Danshaken Don San-Heart Hen
Burning Angel
Coryoon
Cyber Core
Daisenpu
Dead Moon Gessekai No Akumu
Deep Blue Kaitei Shinwa
Detana! Twin Bee
Double Ring
Download
Dragon Saber
Dragon Spirit
Fantasy Zone
Final Blaster
Final Soldier
Final Soldier Special Version
Galaga '88
Gokuraku Chuka Taisen
Gradius
Gunhed
Gunhed Special Version
Hana Tahka Daka
Hani In The Sky
Heavy Unit
Image Fight
Kyuukyoku Tiger
Magical Chase
Metal Stoker
Mister Heli No Dai Bouken
Operation Wolf
Ordyne
Override
P-47
Paranoia
Parodius Da!
PC Denjin
Power Gate
Psycho Chaser
R-TYPE I
R-TYPE II
Rabio Lepus Special
Raiden
Rock On
Salamander
Sidearms (Hyperdyne)
Soldier Blade
Soldier Blade Special Version
Space Harrier
Space Invaders Fukkatsu No Hi
Super Star Soldier
Tatsujin
Tenseiryu Saint Dragon
Terra Cresta II
Thunder Blade
Toilet Kids
Toy Shop Boys
Violent Soldier
Xevious

And lastly here is the shooters on regulard cd

Alzadick - Summer Carnival '92
Avenger
Daisenpu Custom
Download 2
Hellfire S
L-Dis
Legion
macross 2036
Monster Lair Wonderboy III
Rayxanber II
Seirei Senshi Spriggan
Sidearms Special
Space Fantasy Zone
Super Darius
Terrafomring
Zero Wing

And dont forget Sapphire on arcade CD for $400

[MegaDrive20XX]

Yet Saturn can be compared to PSX at times when you break it down.


In what sense are they comparable? Many Saturn games are unrivaled by anything the PSX has, and not just in this genre. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure what you mean by that....

Some claim that the PSX version of Dodonpachi is better, but I think the scaling issue is only a problem on Saturn if it isn't played in tate mode (on a sideways warm chocolate puddin' for instance).


you just answered your own question

[Dark Helmet]

HEre is a list of shooters by platform from pcecp.com Just go to "catalog" and "advanced search. you can sort and search by parameters. There are alos screens of virtually ever game there.

Thanks man, can't beleive I never knew this site existed.. :)

[NeoZeedeater]

I think the Saturn, Turbo and Genesis are all close rivals in the shooter genre, excelling in different styles. For my taste the Turbo is my pick.

[Anthony1]

Also, and this is really bothering me, that comment about playing stuff like Download 2 and Spriggan... "I don't think so" is really bothering me.

Have YOU played Battle Garegga? Have YOU played Batsugun? Have YOU played Terra Diver?

For you to be so one sided in your argument indicates that you haven't.

It's fine you want to discuss this, just lose the confrontational attitude.


Look, I was just playing around. I know that the Saturn has some unfreaking-believable shooters. I actually have a modded Saturn, and I'm the type that has no moral problems with playing backups, so I pretty much have just about every really good game that the Saturn has to offer.

My personal favorite shooter on Saturn is that one that starts with the letter S and it's a long word. I also love Darius Gaiden. There are tons of great shooters on Saturn. No question about it. But man, the PC Engine has some really cool shooters that have a really cool feel to them.

Basically, if you are a shooter fan, you can't go wrong with either system.