Something I did a year or so ago (best games ever)

[pacmanhat]

I'd completely forgotten I had even done this, but reading Anthony1's power rankings reminded me...and so I figured I'd share it.

In January of '04, I went to around 50 different gaming message boards (oddly, I don't think this was one of them) and had people submit their best 20 or so games of all time. I got a pretty good response, and was able to make a top 250 list. I wasn't able to avoid a good amount of fanboyism and bias, but I think the list turned out alright. If the situation were right, I wouldn't be opposed to taking this on again at some point, perhaps with just the people here. As for the results...

Here's a visual list (definite 56k warning here). I made all the images myself over the course of a few days:
http://aiuax.com/greatestgames/

And if that doesn't work for some reason (of if you want more info), here's an explanation of how it was put together, as well as a text only version of the final list:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/clayhazelnut/57946.html

[Xantan the Foul]

Looks like you put a lot of work into it, I'm impressed ;)

The pictures seem to be links though, and they don't link to anything, thought you should know.

[Daria]

Fanboyism runs rampant towards the bottom of the page. The top 10 I mean. O.o

[gamegirl79]

Fanboyism runs rampant towards the bottom of the page. The top 10 I mean. O.o

Yeah, I agree. Number 4 notably (in my opinion). It really can't be avoided unfortunately.

[pacmanhat]

Looks like you put a lot of work into it, I'm impressed ;)

The pictures seem to be links though, and they don't link to anything, thought you should know.

I meant to make a page for each one at one point, but I never did it because I was in the process of moving around the time this was finished. Now that I look at it again (for the first time in a long while), I definitely don't feel like finishing it. I'd much sooner do it again for a better result. As much as the whole 'best game ever' thing is done to death, I really enjoyed working on it and getting the perspective of actual gamers instead of editors of a magazine or a website or something.

[Ackman]

halo over hl *meh*

nice to see sonic 2 so high
Something just doesn't feel right, it seems so random, and all those FFX games so high in the list O_O over the originals *meh*

ah forget it, I'll always be an over opinionated prick

Where is Deus EX !!!?? :angry: wait no I better stop, before I have a hernia or something.....

[NeoZeedeater]

While I disagree with a lot of them being there(that's inevitable for anyone I think so I can't complain too much) it's really cool to see them all listed out like that with pictures. It's an interesting mix at least and impressive that you put it together. 50 message boards and no Monster World series love makes me sad though.

[pacmanhat]

Deus Ex is near the top, if I remember correctly. 30-40 or so. I'm glad it's there, too. :)

[WanganRunner]

Other than Halo beating Super Mario 64, the complete lack of Mario Sunshine, and the fact the list (unfortunately, like almost all lists) completely ignores JPN-only games, I still think this is the best "best games ever" list I've ever seen.

SNK & NEC systems seem to be completely absent though, but only problem with polling Neo Geo people is that EVERY effin' game they put on their list will be a Neo Geo game, skewing your results a tad. I mean, I'd say Blazing Star deserves a spot on there, but they'd go and put friggin 'Nam on there too...wackballs.

[pacmanhat]

Mario Sunshine IS in there...#128. :)

[Sothy]

Glad to see Day of Defeat and operation flashpoint in there.

If you have never played operation flashpoint by the way you are missing one of the most open ended modern infantry first person shooter masterpieces ever made. Makes ghost recon look like a coin op.

[Snapple]

The visual list is beautiful! Best "top games" list I've ever seen. Evar.

Good picture selection for each game too.

Some of my old favorites that a lot of people don't even know about (Day of the Tentacle, for example) even made the list, which was a nice treat.

[FlufflePuff]

That's a phenomenal list. It brings back a bunch of memories, but also has piqued my interest in several of the games on the list that I haven't played before. One thing I would add, although for most games it would seem redundant, but put the system that the game made it on the list for. For example, Skies of Arcadia on GC or DC? FF VI on PS or SNES? I would be really interested to see a redone list with a touch less fanboyism myself.

[Dimitri]

LOL @ #192...that's a game you don't see on too many "best games of all time" lists...but I have to say I've played it far more than I should have...

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Its a pretty good list, but I can't agree with the order. That list still contains about 90% of my favorite games of all time.

[Richter Belmount]

no oot! X_X sorry , i cant imagine sotn that low thought

[Griking]

So Ultima IV or V doesn't even make the list yet Minesweeper does?

I didn't even waste any more time with it once I realized this.

[rarecube]

I agree with the top 3 changing the order ,

1- FFVII
2- SMB 3
3- Zelda

How Many Snes Title are in the list?

I count 20 ?? Is that right ??

Some amazing games have not made the list , it seems like a very american Top 200, i think sport games should be excluded , because depending on which country you do the question you would have different sports and different games, in this game you American Football games, if you did it in Europe you will defenetly get the Pro Evlution series on the top 10 ;

Examples ;

Super Ghouls And Gosts
Metal Slug Series
King Of Fighters Series
Panzer Dragoon Series
Eternal Champions
Star Ocen .....


So many missing.

And some great consoles did not get not even a title .

I think Nintendo is the Great Winner in this list, follow by Sony.
I dont Think Sega did tooo well.


By the way, The List is great , defenetly the best ive seen so far.
Next time do a world wide with some European and Asian Forums, you will see the amazing difference.

[XxMe2NiKxX]

Other than Halo beating Super Mario 64, the complete lack of Mario Sunshine, and the fact the list (unfortunately, like almost all lists) completely ignores JPN-only games, I still think this is the best "best games ever" list I've ever seen.

SNK & NEC systems seem to be completely absent though, but only problem with polling Neo Geo people is that EVERY effin' game they put on their list will be a Neo Geo game, skewing your results a tad. I mean, I'd say Blazing Star deserves a spot on there, but they'd go and put friggin 'Nam on there too...wackballs.
Not true, Tales of Phantasia (which SHOULD HAVE RANKED BETTER) was there. Then again, it is a very popular ROM.

For the record, I think Final Fantasy VII shouldn't have placed AT ALL, and I think a LOT of games should have ranked better then they did, namely, Diablo II, Nethack, Sonic 2, and Doom. I'm also completely anti-Halflife/Halo, so you can imagine my dislike of how well they did.

And, Age of Empires 2 should have won.

[Aussie2B]

Seiken Densetsu 3 was there as well. But on the subject of Japanese-exclusives, it's kind of saddening to see the second GBA Fire Emblem on the list, when all the home console Fire Emblem games totally blow it out of the water. Just goes to show that when it comes to Japanese-exclusives, American gamers are poor at picking the truly best ones because they're limited to what has gotten fan translated and such (unless they got the balls to learn Japanese or play a game in a language they don't know). I know that if I did my own personal list of what I think are the best games I've ever played, I'd have a ton of Japanese-exclusives that the average American gamer, regardless of how "hardcore" he/she is, has never heard of.

[imanerd0011]

Great list man! It's really nice how you have the pics beside each game. My only complaint is how Halo and Final Fantasy VII placed so high, but I have to admit that I did see that coming. I also think that Super Mario Bros should have placed higher, but what do I know.

[Snapple]

People are worrying way too much about the order. Given the way the list was put together, popularity obviously has a lot more weight than quality. Plus, IT'S A LIST. There's no such thing as a list that you're going to totally agree with unless you yourself put it together. So get a grip, yeesh.

[hezeuschrist]

Seiken Densetsu 3 was there as well. But on the subject of Japanese-exclusives, it's kind of saddening to see the second GBA Fire Emblem on the list, when all the home console Fire Emblem games totally blow it out of the water. Just goes to show that when it comes to Japanese-exclusives, American gamers are poor at picking the truly best ones because they're limited to what has gotten fan translated and such (unless they got the balls to learn Japanese or play a game in a language they don't know). I know that if I did my own personal list of what I think are the best games I've ever played, I'd have a ton of Japanese-exclusives that the average American gamer, regardless of how "hardcore" he/she is, has never heard of.

We aren't in Japan. I'd expect any "best games ever" list from a website that doesn't end in ".jp" to be restricted to games in the english language.

Not going through the nigh unbearable hassle to learn a language to play games doesn't make me any less hardcore than you are. If that's really something you'd do, you aren't hardcore, you're insane. On the same note, playing through games without a clue whats going on really defeats the purpose of playing the game.

[Aussie2B]

You know, I gotta wonder do so many people really consider Ocarina of Time the best game ever, or did they all fall victim to the "Game of the Century!" hype? Sometimes I think people call it the best game ever only because they think they're expected to say that. It's like how kids will talk about how legendary Pong, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bros., etc. are, yet they never even played them (or for the flip side, it's like how people will call E.T. the worst game ever when they haven't played that either, yet they heard people on G4 and such saying so).

As for myself, Ocarina of Time isn't even my favorite Zelda, let alone my favorite game ever. I don't think it would even make my top 25 (but, yes, it is a great game and very well-designed).

[hezeuschrist]

LttP for me also was a far better game than Ocarina. Although, I never did get super deep into Ocarina like I did LttP and I don't think it's the actual game that's driving the decision rather than the nostalgia. Although, I guess the same could be said now for Resident Evil 4. I absolutely think thats the best game of the series and definitely ranks in my top 10 games ever, but it's fresh to me and really sucked me in.

[Aussie2B]

We aren't in Japan. I'd expect any "best games ever" list from a website that doesn't end in ".jp" to be restricted to games in the english language.

Well, then it should be appropriately titled "Best US or English Games Ever", but meh, I don't want to nitpick too much. I just find it funny to see a couple Japanese games represented on a list that's otherwise US releases. Out of all the Japanese-exclusives ever made, there are better titles to pick than Tales of Phantasia and Seiken Densetsu 3, in my opinion. :P


Not going through the nigh unbearable hassle to learn a language to play games doesn't make me any less hardcore than you are. If that's really something you'd do, you aren't hardcore, you're insane. On the same note, playing through games without a clue whats going on really defeats the purpose of playing the game.

Insane? What better reason to learn a language is there than to further enjoy something that interests you? I'm not even close to knowing Japanese, but I have picked up a lot of stuff solely because of my interest in games, manga, and anime. It's better than learning a language just to meet a school requirement or something.

Anyway, I wasn't saying I was more "hardcore"; I was pointing out that even so-called hardcore American gamers don't even know of a lot of the best games ever made, just because they were Japan-exclusives. It's kind of sad, really. It's kind of cool to have games that are my own little "secret", but on the other hand, I wish everyone could enjoy these games like me. It's even sadder when a lot of these games require NO knowledge of Japanese, like Dracula X: Rondo of Blood. Speaking of which, how many games out there would you really have NO CLUE what you're doing in without the language to help you? Language is only a barrier in a few genres, and even then many RPGs and such can be quite easily followed without knowledge of the language because they're so formulaic.

[hezeuschrist]

Well I play mostly RPGs, and I know theres an assload of SFC games I want to get my hands on but if I did, they'd be purely for show. Playing RPG's with no idea whats going on without a translation sucks, the dialog is 80% of the genre.

Maybe I'm just bitter that I'll never play Dragon Warrior V and VI, Seiken Densetsu 3, or the SFC Fire Emblem games.

[Snapple]

Out of all the Japanese-exclusives ever made, there are better titles to pick than Tales of Phantasia and Seiken Densetsu 3, in my opinion. :P

You realize those two games made the list because of their successful fan-translations. So pretty much every game on that list *is*there because of their English version, even the couple of JP-exclusives that made it.


Maybe I'm just bitter that I'll never play Dragon Warrior V and VI, Seiken Densetsu 3, or the SFC Fire Emblem games.

You won't? Why? I've beaten all of those except for Fire Emblem, and I don't speak a word of Japanese. Again, they've been translated...

[hezeuschrist]

Unless I'm sticking the game into my system, and playing it on my TV, I'm not playing it. I don't play emulated games, I learned my lesson when I got continually dicked over playing a translated FFV rom a few years back, kept losing my saves. Not because I'm dumb, but becuse it was a shitty rom.

Plus, I've got so many freaking games to play that I OWN that I don't feel the need to come to the PC for emulation of games that never made it stateside, but if they were sitting on the shelf with the rest of the games I have yet to play I'm sure they'd see some action.

[Snapple]

If you don't want to, that's fine, butl then you only have to blame your own stubbornness for not playing Dragon Quest 5. There are easy ways of checking to see if your rom is good or corrupt. And you never have to worry about your in-game saves getting wiped if you save state, which all good emulators support.

[unbroken]

yea this list definetly feels very random. though, still a good list, im pretty sure minesweeper shoud'nt be included in anyones greatest game of all time list. alot of these games seem liked they were threw in there real fast just to make the list bigger(250) and not enough thought went into them. the best way to make a list is kinda of like what gamefaqs did and just have people vote on the games and narrow them down till the most popular games of all time. oh and right away when i didnt see xenogears in the top 10, i knew this list failed big time.

[hezeuschrist]

If you don't want to, that's fine, butl then you only have to blame your own stubbornness for not playing Dragon Quest 5. There are easy ways of checking to see if your rom is good or corrupt. And you never have to worry about your in-game saves getting wiped if you save state, which all good emulators support.

Nah, I've got plenty of statside publishing companies to blame for thinking the games wouldn't sell. I know I'm not alone when I say that emulation just doesn't feel right to me. I simply can't play emulated games, it's difficult whereas I can dump two or three hours into a console RPG no problem.

[hezeuschrist]

yea this list definetly feels very random. though, still a good list, im pretty sure minesweeper shoud'nt be included in anyones greatest game of all time list. alot of these games seem liked they were threw in there real fast just to make the list bigger(250) and not enough thought went into them. the best way to make a list is kinda of like what gamefaqs did and just have people vote on the games and narrow them down till the most popular games of all time. oh and right away when i didnt see xenogears in the top 10, i knew this list failed big time.

Sorry dude, Xenogears doesn't belong in the 10 best games of all time list anywhere, not even when strictly talking about RPG's or PSOne games, or even PSOne RPG's. Well, maybe when speaking strictly of PSOne RPG's. I loved the game until i stuck the second disc in the drive and it completely turned me off. I ended up finishing it, but it just reeked of "AH SHIT! Deadline, shovel that last bit of story out there and put it out!" Finished games only should qualify for any best games ever list

[Aussie2B]

[quote]Out of all the Japanese-exclusives ever made, there are better titles to pick than Tales of Phantasia and Seiken Densetsu 3, in my opinion. :P

You realize those two games made the list because of their successful fan-translations. So pretty much every game on that list *is*there because of their English version, even the couple of JP-exclusives that made it.[quote]

Exactly, that's why I think it's kind of sad. :P The popularity of the fan translations got those games on the list, not because they're better than all other Japan-exclusives ever made.

[Aussie2B]

Nah, I've got plenty of statside publishing companies to blame for thinking the games wouldn't sell.

You can't really blame them either. In 90% of the cases (a percentage I just pulled out of my ass), I'd say they made the correct decision in thinking they couldn't make a decent profit. RPGs STILL aren't great sellers in the US unless they're Final Fantasy, and they sure as heck weren't back then. It's expensive to localize an RPG, so a lot of the time it isn't worth it. Plus, a lot of those Super Famicom games had other reasons for not being published. For one, Enix of America closed down in the middle of the SNES's life. There was no one to localize Dragon Quest 6 (and other Enix titles), even if they wanted to. Other games, like Seiken Densetsu 3, Tales of Phantasia, and Star Ocean, were the largest that Super Famicom games ever got, and English text takes more storage space than Japanese. The price would've been way too prohibitive to the consumer for them to make a reasonable profit. And other titles just came way too late with not enough time for a localization to take place before the SNES died and everyone moved on to N64 or PlayStation.

[hezeuschrist]

Yet they've been fan translated now and wouldn't quite cost much of anything to slap on a compilation disc for PSOne or PS2 :(

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, it's a whole different story these days. I know I would MUCH rather play a game on a real console with an official localization (even if not all are so great) than play a ROM with a fan translation of questionable quality and accuracy. I don't think we're doing too terrible, though. After all those years, we got Final Fantasy 2 and 5 (and 3 coming soon?), Tactics Ogre, and others. We also got ports and remakes of quite a few RPGs that are cheaper than the SNES versions (Final Fastasy 4, 6, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 1, 2, etc.).

We're basically at the mercy of Japan because if they don't do a port or remake there, they're not going to do one here either. I just wish Nintendo would bring over Mother 1 & 2. What's really weird is that Namco had THREE opportunities to bring Tales of Phantasia over (SNES, PlayStation, GBA), yet they passed up every chance. o_O

[hezeuschrist]

I dunno, but they brought Tales of Symphonia and I absolutely loved it. I really think now, especially that Square and Enix are one, that they could release a sweet compilation of RPG's for PS2 of a half dozen unreleased stateside games.

And to Nintendo, I hate them for what they've done to me with Earthbound. It's a crime to bring ONE fantastic game over and tell us to ignore the rest. it'd be different if there weren't any others, but they're there and they just wont release them. Aside from that though, I think we're doing fairly well here with the stateside RPG releases. I've got my hands more than full with PS2 RPG's to make my way through, and I could definitely see us not getting Xenosaga or Shin Megami in the SNES days.

[Avenger]

You know, I gotta wonder do so many people really consider Ocarina of Time the best game ever, or did they all fall victim to the "Game of the Century!" hype? Sometimes I think people call it the best game ever only because they think they're expected to say that. It's like how kids will talk about how legendary Pong, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bros., etc. are, yet they never even played them (or for the flip side, it's like how people will call E.T. the worst game ever when they haven't played that either, yet they heard people on G4 and such saying so).

As for myself, Ocarina of Time isn't even my favorite Zelda, let alone my favorite game ever. I don't think it would even make my top 25 (but, yes, it is a great game and very well-designed).

you my friend are very wise...i played OoT, loved it, but its not even in the top 25 games either....the hype is there and its been drilled into my brain as BEST GAME EVER BEST GAME EVER....that i myself sometimes tell people that it is...only to snap out of it soon enough....its hard man when sites and shows literally drill it into your brain...

PLEASE do this list again....i love it even though I too dont think the order is at all right, the content is there and thars what matters...im sure games like RE4 and HL2 would get really high up on that list now...and games like Fire Emblem would drop off totally...it totally depends on whats hot and new at the time, and its nice to see some forgotten games brought up..they really have stood the test of time...only thing im scared of is Halo 2 being in the top 10....cuz we all know it would make it... :(

only game that came to mind missing (im sure there are MANY more) is Virtua Tennis....and i dont remember seeing metal slug on the list but i dont remember...

again, great job :D

[pacmanhat]

PLEASE do this list again....i love it even though I too dont think the order is at all right, the content is there and thars what matters...im sure games like RE4 and HL2 would get really high up on that list now...and games like Fire Emblem would drop off totally...it totally depends on whats hot and new at the time, and its nice to see some forgotten games brought up..they really have stood the test of time...only thing im scared of is Halo 2 being in the top 10....cuz we all know it would make it... :(
again, great job :D

With the fanboyism that was rampant the first time I did this, I'm guessing the newest game that would get the biggest bias-inspired push is World of Warcraft (maybe Halo 2, but probably the former). Both of those would score really, really high. As far as OoT goes, it's been out for around 6 1/2 years now...I always thought that was long enough for the "Best Game EVAR" hype to die down. (but appearantly it wasn't?) I'll definitely look into making this list again, be it in the immediate future or a little bit further down the road.

[IntvGene]

It just goes to show you that the average gamer has no clue about the best games ever made. I don't want to pick on this list in particular as it merely suffers from polling the average idiot on the internet. I'm afraid that the average gamer has not the experience of playing enough games or the breadth of playing enough genres, consoles, computers, etc. to do such. What you'll see is a list of good games that many people have played instead.

[hezeuschrist]

PLEASE do this list again....i love it even though I too dont think the order is at all right, the content is there and thars what matters...im sure games like RE4 and HL2 would get really high up on that list now...and games like Fire Emblem would drop off totally...it totally depends on whats hot and new at the time, and its nice to see some forgotten games brought up..they really have stood the test of time...only thing im scared of is Halo 2 being in the top 10....cuz we all know it would make it... :(
again, great job :D

With the fanboyism that was rampant the first time I did this, I'm guessing the newest game that would get the biggest bias-inspired push is World of Warcraft (maybe Halo 2, but probably the former). Both of those would score really, really high. As far as OoT goes, it's been out for around 6 1/2 years now...I always thought that was long enough for the "Best Game EVAR" hype to die down. (but appearantly it wasn't?) I'll definitely look into making this list again, be it in the immediate future or a little bit further down the road.

I know I would put RE4 in my top 3 ever, along with some 16 bit classics. It's really that good, and it definitely deserves to be on a list of such clout ;)

The entire idea is pure fanboy, what are your 20 favorite games? It's purely opinion, but when taken from such a selective audience I think the result is really far greater than any other lists in modern times.

[Avenger]

i had an idea...and instead of startin a new topic ill post it here cuz this was my inspiration....i want to do a list...100 games you NEED to play...as a gamer, as a person....I think itll be more fair this way than saying "best game ever? HALO!!!'....my hope is that we will get less of a bias, and more innovative titles...i dunno...i think im rambling but I would like to see what other people think about my idea...I also got the idea from a book my friend had...'100 movies you have to see before you die'...so i guess this is the '100 games you have to play before you die' idea :)

[Crush Crawfish]

I certainly like the visual design of the list, but I disagree with many of the choices (Earthbound, Chrono trigger, and Megaman 3 are waaaay too low, and there's no sign of shadow hearts or brave fencer musashi.) I'd like to see the list updated a bit.

[scottw182]

So did anybody ever hear from this guy again, on this subject? I enjoyed looking through that list and I'd love to see an updated one, as almost 6 years have passed since this one was made. I think it would be a good idea to let the voting go a bit longer, 387 voters really isn't that many. There are "top games" threas on individual system boards on GameFAQs that have almost that many votes.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, I agree. Number 4 notably (in my opinion). It really can't be avoided unfortunately.
Yea, wtf is up with that Microsoft stuff ruining your perfect Squee / Ninty sweep? ;)

I think the list is just more proof that Counter-Strike and WoW players are too busy to vote on lists.

Edit: lol, old post. I can't remember the last time I saw a gamegirl79 post. Leaving my comment 'cuz it's funny.

Seems like a cool project, I should try it.