Anyone feel Nintendo wasted the Gamecube?

[Ernster]

First of all this is no bash Nintendo thread, I love Nintendo and do own a GC:

However think back to before GC was launched, Nintendo promised a new system that would fix the problems of the N64. Disk format for the first time, cheaper games, better 3rd party support etc. Things were looking promsing and the most exciting thing was looking foward to the next installment of the Mario franchise.

However when GC was launched, for some totally f--ked up reason Nintendo thought that by releasing a PURPLE console that they would eliminate the kiddy image they had with the N64.

Then we had the controller, its not a bad one but that crappy small d-pad is unbeliavably horrible especially since Nintendo were the one's to invent the damm thing.

The launch of GC had no Mario game, their first biggest mistake, not mentioing the absence of a DVD-player which PS2 and Xbox had. Of course I dont care about extars like DVD-players, umd, etc, Nintendo had to keep up with the times, and they didn't.

Than we had the all important Mario game, named Super Mario Sunshine. What a disappointment that was, it was a WORSE game than Mario 64 with horrible camera, not so amazing graphics and boring level design. Not to mention who the hell wants to squirt water and clean up paint the whole game.

Mario Sunshine was a solid game but it would be the 1st of many franchises Nintendo would screw up on Gamecube.

Zelda Windwaker was next on the list and proved that Nintendo had no clue what they were doing. Zelda WW was a fantastic game, but the choice to give it "kiddy" graphics was a good choice but the wrong choice. Here is a game that is probably the biggest videogame franchise at the time and they go back to their "kiddy" ways. WW was a fantastic game and the cel shaded graphocs were a nice change, but for the main stream public no one other than Nintendo fan would even dear buy that game.

Once again a Nintendo franchise losing to its N64 version

Than we have Mario Kart:DD the game just didnt have that Mario kart feel, too many changes in the end ruined the game, when all Nintendo had to do was add more tracks, drivers and a more rewarding single player mode. I guess any game based on Mario Sunshine cant be too great. Mario Kart 64 remands king here as well.

Than we have F-Zero G which was just too difficult, and didnt lhave the awesome soundtrack of the N64 vesion....another disappointing Nintendo franchise

Star Fox Assault, which I have not played but I guess we can all agree the N64 version was better. See a pattern here? All dissapointments. A new console is SUPPOSE to have bettter games than the prevous one, but the opposite is true with the Gamecube.

A proper Pokemon RPG on GC would of sold a truck load and more and Nintendo fans said they wanted this over and over again, but what did Nintendo do? They release crappy games like Pokemon Channel and Dash. WHY?!

The Donkey Kong franchise has also been non existent on GC. Why in the hell release not 1, not 2, but 3 bloody Donkey Konga games! What people want is a DK PLATFORMER, remember what they were Nintendo. The NES, SNES and N64 were all the best consoles for platformers, and its a shame that the best platformer is still an 8 year old game (mario 64, and its also a shame that the PS2 is the new king of platformers.

Than we reach the all important 3rd party support which Nintendo have improved on, but apart from the Resident Evil series the rest are quite disappointing. Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, was a remake, Finanl Fantasy CC was ruined by Nintendo and there stupid GBA connectivity.

I could go on forever about how disappointing and a waste GC has been for Nintendo and for Gamecube owners, SSB, Pimin and Metroid are the only worthwhile games Nintendo have released for GC, the rest have been done on a better console...the N64.

Sorry to post such a negative thread but I had to get it of my chest maybe the situation isnt as bad as for your Americans etc, but as an Aussie GC owner the world isn't a fun place.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Everything I can agree/disagree to an extent but this statement is not Relevant to this thread..

not mentioing the absence of a DVD-player which PS2 and Xbox had.

In my honest opinion....the DVD player feature is not important or a key role in dedicing about which system has the best goods...all I care about is the games

a DVD player isnt much these days...


other then that, excellent discussion

[NintendoMan]

Even though I don't agree with you on some things, like mario sunshine being not that good of a game, you make a hell of alot of good points, things that nintendo should have done different.
I mean if they were at least going to have a purple GC at launch, why not have a silver or black one along with it at launch!!?? The Donkey Konga drums things are cool and I do have fun with them, but yeah, where the hell is a new DK Platformer!!

[tholly]

i had to vote yes....it hate to admit it, but i agree with you

nintendo just didnt deliever with this generation

maybe the next one.....we'll just have to wait and see

[MegaDrive20XX]

Even though I don't agree with you on some things, like mario sunshine being not that good of a game, you make a hell of alot of good points, things that nintendo should have done different.
I mean if they were at least going to have a purple GC at launch, why not have a silver or black one along with it at launch!!?? The Donkey Konga drums things are cool and I do have fun with them, but yeah, where the hell is a new DK Platformer!!

You know what's sad? I actually wanted the Orange one...would have been a really killer Halloween theme lol

[hezeuschrist]

Everything I can agree/disagree to an extent but this statement is not Relevant to this thread..

not mentioing the absence of a DVD-player which PS2 and Xbox had.

In my honest opinion....the DVD player feature is not important or a key role in dedicing about which system has the best goods...all I care about is the games

a DVD player isnt much these days...


other then that, excellent discussion

That may not have been the driving decision for you, but back in 2000 when the PS2 was launched the market was just getting ready to fully embrace the format and for $300 you get Dreamcast graphics, Sony third party support, and a DVD player? The price was unbeatable for the deal, DVD players alone cost at least $300 at the time.

I absolutely attribute DVD playback as a large reason for nintendo's failure in this generation. When a parent is checking out a system for their kid and they get the extra tag on the PS2 having DVD over the GC, that's definitely a factor that tips the scales.

As for being disappointed, sure I'm disappointed that Nintendo seemingly wanted to change it all and head back up to the top and didn't, but in terms of the games I'm nowhere near disappointed. I'm getting another Zelda shortly, RE4, Metroid, F-Zero... those alone make the system worth having. After a while I stopped wasting my breath and just decided to embrace what the system has to offer. I no longer give a shit if Nintendo is a market leader, I just give a shit that they continue to offer the great games they always have and I'll be happy. They're a fantastically run company and have nearly always turned a profit so they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[NintendoMan]

You know what's sad? I actually wanted the Orange one...would have been a really killer Halloween theme lol

Oh don't get me wrong, I loved all the different N64 colors!!!! Great variety. But to only have purple at launch, besides, its an ugly purple! It's like primer purple.

[ubersaurus]

Wind Waker wasn't so much kiddy as it was artistic.
Starfox Assault would've owned 64 if it had more flying stages. I mean, I liked the game, but the foot missions were much too numerous to make the game as good as 64.
F-Zero GX had awesome music. And SOME of us loved the challenge of unlocking the AX stuff.

Ain't Jungle Beat a platformer? I'm pretty damn sure it is.

[NintendoMan]

That may not have been the driving decision for you, but back in 2000 when the PS2 was launched the market was just getting ready to fully embrace the format and for $300 you get Dreamcast graphics, Sony third party support, and a DVD player? The price was unbeatable for the deal, DVD players alone cost at least $300 at the time.

Oh yeah, DVD definately was a big selling point back then. I personally know a couple friends that bought it just for that. Back then I was like, wow, cool, a dvd player!!!!! And know many others like that!

[NintendoMan]

Ain't Jungle Beat a platformer? I'm pretty damn sure it is.

Oh yeah, and suppossed to be a pretty good one too! I will eventually get it! I want a "real" DK plat., that you use a controller for though!

[MegaDrive20XX]

Everything I can agree/disagree to an extent but this statement is not Relevant to this thread..

not mentioing the absence of a DVD-player which PS2 and Xbox had.

In my honest opinion....the DVD player feature is not important or a key role in dedicing about which system has the best goods...all I care about is the games

a DVD player isnt much these days...


other then that, excellent discussion

That may not have been the driving decision for you, but back in 2000 when the PS2 was launched the market was just getting ready to fully embrace the format and for $300 you get Dreamcast graphics, Sony third party support, and a DVD player? The price was unbeatable for the deal, DVD players alone cost at least $300 at the time.

I absolutely attribute DVD playback as a large reason for nintendo's failure in this generation. When a parent is checking out a system for their kid and they get the extra tag on the PS2 having DVD over the GC, that's definitely a factor that tips the scales.
.

Oh trust me, I know what you mean, every average joe out there, wanted a PS2 for that one reason, because it was a cheaper means of having a DVD Player at that time

[MegaDrive20XX]

You know what's sad? I actually wanted the Orange one...would have been a really killer Halloween theme lol

Oh don't get me wrong, I loved all the different N64 colors!!!! Great variety. But to only have purple at launch, besides, its an ugly purple! It's like primer purple.

Yeah, when Purple showed up, I thought "Oh god it's GBC all over again"

[Aussie2B]

I totally agree with you on almost all your points. I like my GameCube; heck, I have two of them, but it just can't compare to the quality and originality of the N64's library. Mario Sunshine just wasn't as good as Mario 64, Wind Waker needed more dungeons and less carrying people around crap, and F-Zero GX's gameplay just isn't as tight and precise and the techno garbage music BLOWS CHUNKS (sadly, it's one of the main reasons I can't get into GX; Taro Bando's metal soundtrack for F-Zero X is one of the reasons I always go back to the game). Metroid going FPS isn't my cup o' tea, and Double Dash is only truly great as a two-player cooperative game for me.

My GameCube just doesn't get much play by me. I've only played a couple games all the way to completion on it, and not coincidentally, they were new franchises with original ideas - Pikmin and Baten Kaitos. Other than that, I play a bit of 4-player Monkey Target in Super Monkey Ball (another new franchise) and Double Dash (even though I'd rather battle in Mario Kart 64).

I expect to become more interested in GameCube once it's dead and I can build up a nice library, but even then I don't think it'll ever be as good as N64, in my opinion.

[cr0n0]

Great points were made, although I disagree on some.
I think Mario Sunshine is a game that is WAY underrated and F-Zero is a good game ( just SUPER HARD).
Wind Waker was an artistic masterpiece (but short) and I think this is the true image Miyamoto had all along when it came to Link and the world of Hyrule.
This is my opinion:

Nintendo messed up in this generation because it refuses to open up to new ideas and franchises. They continue to go back to Mario for almost everything, or they change a game midway in fear of not pleasing their fanboys (Starfox Adventure). They need to stop being tightwads and let loose. I think Nintendo has the greatest programmes and ideas, just not the brass to let them loose on the world. They are playing it safe at this point. I hope the Revolution console is not the "DREAMCAST" of Nintendo.

[Tron 2.0]

Great points were made, although I disagree on some.
I think Mario Sunshine is a game that is WAY underrated and F-Zero is a good game ( just SUPER HARD).
Wind Waker was an artistic masterpiece (but short) and I think this is the true image Miyamoto had all along when it came to Link and the world of Hyrule.
This is my opinion:

Nintendo messed up in this generation because it refuses to open up to new ideas and franchises. They continue to go back to Mario for almost everything, or they change a game midway in fear of not pleasing their fanboys (Starfox Adventure). They need to stop being tightwads and let loose. I think Nintendo has the greatest programmes and ideas, just not the brass to let them loose on the world. They are playing it safe at this point. I hope the Revolution console is not the "DREAMCAST" of Nintendo.
Ditto i'm happy with my GC,still from a business stand point.

I think Nintendo could done better in the begining.Such as a lower license fee and better use of the modem.For online gaming such a,waste at least i think so :(

[Mayhem]

F-Zero GX > F-Zero X

Love both to death, but somehow AV managed to outdo Nintendo. I love both sets of music too, but that's probably due to my European upbringing, we're far more in tune with techno/dance than America ever has been LOL

I've played and owned way more games for the Cube already than over the course of having my N64. That says something... more and better games to choose from!

[digitalpress]

I love both sets of music too, but that's probably due to my European upbringing, we're far more in tune with techno/dance than America ever has been LOL

In tune with it? You can KEEP that blarsted NOISE LOL

As for the original post, I agree on most points as well. I've always wanted to embrace the GameCube as the "go to" system in my home, but it has become more of the "party system" (great four player games with the Wavebird). The system's exclusives aren't plentiful enough to warrant the top spot here, and the lack of online gaming just kills it for me.

I'm very much looking forward to the next wave of Nintendo console gaming. I just KNOW they've learned a lot from this experience.

[Xantan the Foul]

I'll say that the NES and SNES were better than the Cube... but the N64? I think I own 12 games for the 64, and there are maybe 4 more I want. I own over 30 games for my Cube with alot more that I want to get in the coming months.

If they hadn't lost so many 3rd party developers because of the N64, the Cube would be alot better than it is today.

[jdc]

Oh boy......the GameCube.

I have a Cube. I've wondered until I'm blue in the face.....why is it that I spend lots of money on my other systems on a weekly basis.....but the last thing that I bought for my Cube was Windwaker.....which I have yet to play? It's not like I have to go to the trouble of hooking it up to play it. The controller sits beside my other controllers. Just put in a disc and play. My Cube library is pathetic. The Zelda limited edition discs, Windwaker, both releases of Phantasy Star Online, and Tales Of Symphonia. My PS2 library hit 60 games and my new Xbox library grows weekly. Pretty sad when you consider that I've had my Cube the longest.

The Cube has plenty of graphic punch and can deliver eye candy with the best of them, easily outdoing the PS2. The controller is my favorite. The little cube shape is appealing in it's functionality and in the way that it hogs only a fraction of the space of my Xbox. Nope....there's nothing wrong with the hardware.

Software? The variety is there if you bother to look. Fanboy titles? Starfox was a masterpiece of modern gaming.....I've always enjoyed Nintendo's character driven lineups. There are sports games and shooters and quirky titles as well. I'd like for there to have been more racers and RPGs...but you can't have everything. Most of the stuff is multi-platform anyways. Software isn't really a glaring problem.

So......if I like the hardware.....and I don't mind the software....and if I can also get the cross-platform games on my Cube......then WHY don't I buy Cube stuff?

It's simple.....and might be silly. For some reason the 3" optical discs are a turnoff, but I don't exactly know why. (smaller equals a perceived lesser value?) That's the ONLY reason that I can think of to explain my aversion to my GameCube.

As far as the general public's shying away from it? There's a million reasons. The hardware is too "kiddie". The games are too "kiddie". The software is the same old crap that Nintendo's been flogging for years. No DVD functionality. No backwards compatability. Stupid tiny discs.....can't pirate the games easily. Nintendo always seems to have something to prove, an axe to grind, a bee up their ass, and ends up being too different or weird for the average gamer to swallow.

[digdug]

I voted yes as welll, I do "LIKE" my GC, but I don't play it as much as I would like to. The reason being is the games. There is only maybe a handfull of games that appeal to an adult. I am sick of playing the rehashed mario type games, starfox, and didn't care about the GC to GBA connectivity.

Don't even get me started on, the online gaming. THERE ISN'T ANY (EXCLUDING PHANTASY STAR). I feel to be successful these days you have to have SOME kind of online model for your games, even if it is mario, etc.

Dig Dug

[philosophyst]

Animal Crossing :D

For me, it's worth having a GC just for this game. Seriously though, I enjoy my GC a lot, I just finished Dead To Rights the other day on it. I have 55 games for it right now and it's the main system I am collecting for. I do have a bunch of Atari, NES in addition to my Gameboy collection but I love my Gamecube!

The wavebirds rock too, just bought two from Kmart last weekend.

I do have one complaint though....I really think they should have games like Wheel Of Fortune, Scrabble, Jeopardy, you know board games and game shows. I remember when we had our PS2, my wife and I were always playing Wheel Of Fortune.

[YoshiM]

On the issue of DVD playback:

When the PS2 was released DVD player prices were expensive both in Japan and in America. However by 2001 when the Gamecube landed DVD player prices plummeted. Blockbuster reported (http://web.archive.org/web/20030307103647/http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,39362,FF.html)DVD rental sales at $900 million, up from $300 million the previous year. Checking Best Buy in Archive.org an inexpensive DVD player was about $129 or $150 for a decent model in 2001 while in 2000 they were hovering around $180 on up (many were about $200 or $250). With that I think the DVD player may not have been as big of a factor as it was in 2000.

Xbox didn't have DVD playability out of the box. You need the remote control accessory. Only $30 but still it's not an apples to apples comparison.

On the issue of color:

I agree. Purple just wasn't a good color for launch. On the flip side, however, they had a rainbow of colors for the N64 and GBC colors reminded one of different flavors of ice pops. So was purple really as big a deal as we'd like to think? Maybe not according to some of the long lines I saw on launch day.

On the issue of "kiddy": gods I hate that label. The original release I agree looked closer to a toy but that was rectified when the black and platinum versions were released. When I think "kiddie" I'm thinking Fisher Price or something where the content is specifically geared for the under 8 crowd that doesn't require fast reaction time or strong puzzle skills. The Cube and even its initial lineup of software wasn't kiddy. Family friendly (as in all ages), yes, kids only no. I try to call it as I see it and the Cube and a majority of its line-up is not kiddy.

On everything else: I'm like DP, I WANNA love the Cube. I'm a Nintendo fan from way back when the Mushroom Daddy Mario got his white gloves around my neck and wouldn't let go with the NES. In my mind, Nintendo forgot how to maintain the balance between just a cookie-cutter sequel and a sequel that seems to stand on its own. Every major Nintendo sequel kept the same overall structure of the past game(s) and incorporated juuuust enough to make it feel fresh. With the transition from N64 to Cube I feel that Nintendo seemed to drop the ball and either went with just the graphical update (F-Zero GX and Zelda: Wind Waker IMO, for example) or tried to do something "innovative" that mucked too much with the structure (like with Mario Kart: DD, Super Mario Sunshine and Star Fox: Assault).

I hope they learned their lesson for the Revolution. E3 just seems so far away.

[philosophyst]

Xbox didn't have DVD playability out of the box. You need the remote control accessory. Only $30 but still it's not an apples to apples comparison.



I agree here, especially since I picked up a DVD player for $40 at Sam's Club a little while ago. It's for a bedroom and doesn't have all the neat-o features but works fine. DVD isn't a big factor in a game system for me.

[sisko]

However when GC was launched, for some totally f--ked up reason Nintendo thought that by releasing a PURPLE console that they would eliminate the kiddy image they had with the N64.

I bought a black one on launch day


Then we had the controller, its not a bad one but that crappy small d-pad is unbeliavably horrible especially since Nintendo were the one's to invent the damm thing.

I agree with you about the D-pad, but how many games do you exclusively use it with? At least, I don't have any. Except for the minor use in Rogue Squadron 2, I don't think I've used it at all.


The launch of GC had no Mario game, their first biggest mistake, not mentioing the absence of a DVD-player which PS2 and Xbox had. Of course I dont care about extars like DVD-players, umd, etc, Nintendo had to keep up with the times, and they didn't.

I agree about the lack of games on launch day, and also don't care about the DVD player. A Mario title at launch would have obviously sold phenominally well, and it probably would have sold consoles as well.


Than we had the all important Mario game, named Super Mario Sunshine. What a disappointment that was, it was a WORSE game than Mario 64 with horrible camera, not so amazing graphics and boring level design. Not to mention who the hell wants to squirt water and clean up paint the whole game.

Mario Sunshine was a solid game but it would be the 1st of many franchises Nintendo would screw up on Gamecube.

I disagree. While I do find the two games so very very similar, I enjoyed Sunshine quite a bit. IMHO, Super Mario 64 (also a great game) had the WORST camera problems out of any 3D platformer. I did not have nearly as many issues with Sunshine. I also found the game play to be time consuming and enjoyable. This is one of the most underrated titles for the cube though, and tends to be a love it or hate it type deal.


Zelda Windwaker was next on the list and proved that Nintendo had no clue what they were doing. Zelda WW was a fantastic game, but the choice to give it "kiddy" graphics was a good choice but the wrong choice. Here is a game that is probably the biggest videogame franchise at the time and they go back to their "kiddy" ways. WW was a fantastic game and the cel shaded graphocs were a nice change, but for the main stream public no one other than Nintendo fan would even dear buy that game.

I agree, fantastic game, though I do beleive the choice to move towards cel shaded graphics severly hampered their sales by superficial gamers who emphasize graphics over gameplay.

However I don't think the more serious Spaceworld demo graphics could have meshed well with the prevelent comedic vibe prevelant in the game, and would have been perceived as a worse title.



Than we have Mario Kart:DD the game just didnt have that Mario kart feel, too many changes in the end ruined the game, when all Nintendo had to do was add more tracks, drivers and a more rewarding single player mode. I guess any game based on Mario Sunshine cant be too great. Mario Kart 64 remands king here as well.

No, it didn't have that classic Mario Kart 64 feel. Honestly, I flat out hated it when I first played it. But as I played it more and more, I grew accustomed to it. I like the innovative aspect of two people per kart, and Nintendo pulled it off really well. The track design was phenominal (though there are no unintended shortcuts :( ) and the multiplayer is GREAT, especially when 2 humans are on the same kart.

The game is still priced at $50 new and $45 used, and continues to sell out quickly. Not many year (+) old games can do that.



Than we have F-Zero G which was just too difficult, and didnt lhave the awesome soundtrack of the N64 vesion....another disappointing Nintendo franchise

So the game is bad because it provides a challenge....? It's hard, but not prohibitively hard....

I cannot comment on the soundtrack since I do not have the N64 version.


Star Fox Assault, which I have not played but I guess we can all agree the N64 version was better.

Wow....solid argument there. I'm speechless. No seriously.... NULL AND VOID. Don't judge something you haven't played :/

Yes, the game is very much like the N64 one (a good analogy would be Mario 64 is to Sunshine as Starfox 64 is to Assault). Thats fine because I LOVED it. The Landmaster levels aren't so great, but the Arwing missions are and foot missions are what Adventures SHOULD have been (yeah....they did screw up Adventures).


A proper Pokemon RPG on GC would of sold a truck load and more and Nintendo fans said they wanted this over and over again, but what did Nintendo do? They release crappy games like Pokemon Channel and Dash. WHY?!

Agreed.


The Donkey Kong franchise has also been non existent on GC. Why in the hell release not 1, not 2, but 3 bloody Donkey Konga games! What people want is a DK PLATFORMER, remember what they were Nintendo. The NES, SNES and N64 were all the best consoles for platformers, and its a shame that the best platformer is still an 8 year old game (mario 64, and its also a shame that the PS2 is the new king of platformers.

I sort of agree. Donkey Konga sucks hard core (at least the American version does). Jungle Beat is a platformer, but while great, still falls short of Donkey Kong Country standards.


Than we reach the all important 3rd party support which Nintendo have improved on, but apart from the Resident Evil series the rest are quite disappointing. Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, was a remake, Finanl Fantasy CC was ruined by Nintendo and there stupid GBA connectivity.

I agree, the lack of 3rd party and 3rd party exclusive titles makes this system NOT theideal choice for several gamers. However Crystal Chronicles sucks no matter what spin you put on it.


I don't think Nintendo screwed up the cube, but I DO think they could have done better. After all is said and done, the Revolution is the ONLY console I'm buying on launch day next generation.

[le geek]

I voted no. From a gamer perspective, I'm happy with the cube.

From a marketshare angle, Nintendo droped the ball tho, no doubt.

Cheers,
Ben

[goatdan]

I got my Cube for Christmas, and it has been the system I've been most interested in since then. I thought that Mario Kart: DD was a nice addition to the series -- don't get me wrong, I liked the SNES one better, but I *hated* the N64 version. Rubberband AI and I just don't get along.

F-Zero GX is, in my opinion, reason enough to buy a GameCube system. If you don't race nearly perfectly, you don't win. It's very challenging. I have to race against 39 other racers (if I recall correctly). I love it, and I am a person that does not much care for racing games. In fact, other than the F-Zero series and Mario Kart, I don't think that I have ever really, truly loved a racing game to play it all the way through... although it isn't for lack of trying. I have probably 20 racing titles for current systems, and other than these two racing titles, only SX Superstar (GameCube), Maximum Chase (Xbox) and Rallisport Challenge 2 (Xbox) have held my attention.

People were surprised by the look of Zelda: Wind Waker, and I agree that it probably should've been an entirely new series. I don't really care for any of the Zelda games though, so even though I have been tempted, I have never purchased it myself.

Personally, I hated Mario 64. I did buy Mario Sunshine, but haven't yet played it. I think that the biggest complaint here could be that "they don't make 'em how they used too." Think about how many platformers came out for the N64 -- Banjo Kazooie and Tooie, Super Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and a ton of others I'm not even thinking of. Think about how many have come out for any current platforms. Blinx, Jak and Mario are leading a very small pack. It seems that just like the day of the 2D platformer is over, the day of the 3D platformer is waning.

For third party support, it hasn't been equal to other systems (AKA GameCube doesn't have Grand Theft Auto) but I don't feel it has been horrible. Viewtiful Joe was an exclusive for a while and has sold more copies on the GameCube than on the PS2. Soul Calibur with Zelda as a fighter was supposedly the best selling on the GameCube. Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes is a remake, but it is excellent.

On top of that, the update of Metroid is about as good as it can get. I was always intrigued by the Metroid series, but I never got into it before. Now, I am totally immersed in it. I know a few people that have bought systems just to play that game.

The DVD player was an issue in the Japanese market, but not as much in the US market. You can only compare it's exclusion with the PS2, as the Xbox one was an additional cost and the Japanese aren't really flocking to purchase Xbox consoles either. The PS2 really had the upper hand because they were the first released with a built in DVD player, and it came in at one of the cheapest prices for a DVD player in Japan at the time. I still remember reading that for the first few weeks that the PS2 was released, the best selling title for it was the Matrix movie in Japan. It reinforces the fact that the DVD player was HUGE in Japan, and how important that was.

But Nintendo was worried about possible piracy, so they made it as hard to pirate as they could. And it worked.

As for online play, I don't really feel that it matters as much as people make it out to. Reviewers in magazines always talk about how much better the non-GameCube version is because of the fact that it has online support, but from the 50-or-so people that I know that are not hardcore gamers, none of them actually play their consoles online. The online thing has only made the Xbox more of the gold standard for hardcore gamers, but I don't feel that it is the reason the PS2 still owns such a gap.

So anywho, I voted that I was happy with the GameCube. Yes, Nintendo hasn't properly marketed it and they need badly for games to be released in a more timely manner, and they needed more big titles at or near launch. GoldenEye sold like wildfire in the US and moved TONS of N64 systems (not to mention extra controllers), but by the time that Metroid had come out the system had already been around for a while and it wasn't nearly as impressive. If Nintendo had come out with a launch day line up of Luigi's Mansion, Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime and Mario Kart: DD, I think that Nintendo would be in a MUCH different situation now. Not better than the PS2, but easily ahead of the Xbox. But that didn't happen, and we are where we are.

I'm not disappointed... but I'm sure Nintendo is.

[blissfulnoise]

I agree, the lack of 3rd party and 3rd party exclusive titles makes this system NOT the ideal choice for several gamers. However Crystal Chronicles sucks no matter what spin you put on it.

I agreed with all of your comments Sisko except this one.

Crystal Chronicles is a horrible single player experience. Granted. However, Crystal Chronicles multiplayer is absolutely phenomenal. 3 of my friends and even their respective girlfriends/wives (including my own) would play Crystal Chronicles once a week on a rotating basis all the time.

It was great bringing over your own memory card and having YOUR character in action. Fights for relics are legendary among us. We still break out that game every once and awhile.

And if anyone has played multiplayer on it, you already know why the GBA connectivity wasn't a gimmick but a necessity. Take another classic multiplayer game for example, Toe Jam & Earl:

Play it recently? I have. Does it infuriate you when the other player brings up the map to find out where they're at and completely halt the action and flow of the game? Does it do so doubly when they're on a different floor then you?

Imagine being able to load the map to a Game Gear and not interrupt the game’s pace by popping the map on the main screen. Brilliant. You could apply this same logic all over the place on other revered multiplayer adventure games.

Sure it's cost prohibitive having to buy Game Boy Advances, but at the point of release, you could get them used for $30, not that much more than a WaveBird. I'd gladly pay the extra money to have such a unique play experience AND have a controller that just happens to play 1000+ games. Already have one?

In any case, what the original poster failed to mention several other critically and/or publicly adored games in the GC library. Eternal Darkness, Animal Crossing, and Cubivore specifically.

Eternal Darkness is the finest plot driven horror game of all time. Resident Evil 4 crushes it in lots of categories, but not in terms of plot as far as I'm concerned (granted, I’m a big Lovecraft nut so I'm probably biased). But take RE4 out of the picture (another CUBE exclusive, at least as far as now is concerned) and nothing comes close. The atmosphere of the game is unmatched. And how did we go this far along in the genre without someone coming up with a sanity meter. One of the best game gimmicks of all time as far as I’m concerned. Any one who loved the first Alone in the Dark game as much as myself NEEDS to play this game. It’s the sequel you’ve been waiting 13 years for.

Animal Crossing was a port-ish of the N64 DD game, but regardless, it's highly innovative and is a blast to play on a regular basis even years after it’s first release. And AC is another game that sells well years after its original release. There's really nothing else like it on the market with its strong appeal to both sexes. There’s something the game for everyone to really enjoy.

Cubivore is another game that fits with the pantheon of highly original GameCube exclusives. The graphics are minimalist, but the mechanics of play can't really be found anywhere else. Darwinism in a video game played out perfectly.

Let's revisit Mario Sunshine next. Sisko had it pretty much right on the button, but failed to mention the superior visuals of Mario Sunshine. The OP said that the graphics were "not so amazing". Was he not playing the same game? Can you honestly say that when you'd launch straight up on the rocket water pack; watching the world scale to a tiny perspective and then rapidly descend back down all with real-time scaling that you weren't impressed? What about the size and variance of the levels? What about the "bonus rounds" that tortured you with massively scoped, incredibly hard, TRUE platforming brilliance? You're obviously missing the boat here too.

Finally, I've probably posted on these forums a half dozen times defending Wind Waker in various posts preaching the (exact) point that cr0n0 made here:

Wind Waker is the first completely realized Zelda game that captures the spirit of the franchise graphically. This is the true "miniature garden" that Miyamoto originally conceptualized. His love for the game can be found in every virtual sunrise and sunset while navigating the sea. It's present in every dungeon and every character interaction. And it's so very sad that so many people couldn't see that.

In any case, while the OP makes some decent points regarding some of Nintendo's business strategies (Except for the DVD player and console colors. You can get DVD players in clock radios now for gawd's sake. Would ANOTHER one in your GameCube really make it more desirable?), your points on the games are completely off base as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway. My 0.02. Carry on.

[Ernster]

Thanks for the input everyone. Just thought I should clear something up about my comment about F-Zero GX. I never meant to say its a bad game, I atually think its very good, however due to its difficulty among other things, I belive the general feeling is that the N64 version was slightly better which in my eyes made it somewhat a disappointment,

Anywya continue debating etc, ;)

[ubersaurus]

I put WAAAAY more time into GX than I did X. GX just has the better track design, the higher speed, and it's soundtrack is still pretty bitchin. Like I said, the only real difficulty is unlocking the AX tracks and racers. if you don't care about those, then the game is as easy as the N64 version.

[whoisKeel]

The Cube is alright, but it came out right about the same time as the xbox. It features no digital audio/5.1 (this is my biggest hardware gripe), no online gaming, cables you have to special order for progressive scan (and none are in widescreen anyways I am to understand). The controller is great for games like Metroid and Zelda, but falls apart for lots of games, namely anything 2D.

The only first party titles I've had any interest in are Metroid Prime, WW, and f-zero. I played that new Starfox game the other day and it blows chunks. If this one is supposed to be better than the last, I don't even ever want to see it. Don't ge me wrong, I do like the Cube, it just serves best as a second system to own from the current lineup.

[eightbitonline]

i do like my GCN and play it more than my PS2 (i don't own an xbox, i own a real PC :evil: ) but everything in the initial post is true. i liked windwaker, and liked the graphics, but it wasn't the best zelda game, and if nintendo was trying to shed its kiddie image then it was the wrong time to go cel shaded with one of their biggest franchises.

i'm an actual gamer and as such little ups and downs here and there aren't going to sway my long-term opinion of any company, but nintendo's failed to get money out of the casual gamer in this round- which is important to success. the casual gamer kept the xbox afloat until last year or so (when actual video games- and not just tired PC-style games- started coming out) and if nintendo could have had that market as well they would've been laughing.

[NintendoMan]

I agree about the lack of games on launch day, and also don't care about the DVD player. A Mario title at launch would have obviously sold phenominally well, and it probably would have sold consoles as well.

[quote]Than we had the all important Mario game, named Super Mario Sunshine. What a disappointment that was, it was a WORSE game than Mario 64 with horrible camera, not so amazing graphics and boring level design. Not to mention who the hell wants to squirt water and clean up paint the whole game.

Mario Sunshine was a solid game but it would be the 1st of many franchises Nintendo would screw up on Gamecube.

Yes, there definately needed to be a Mario game. That's why I can easily wait for a new Mario Platformer until the Revolution. I would like to have a new one for the GC too, but that's askin a little much.

[Famidrive-16]

I mean if they were at least going to have a purple GC at launch, why not have a silver or black one along with it at launch!!??

Uhmmm, I bought a black one on launch day.

[Famidrive-16]

GoldenEye sold like wildfire in the US and moved TONS of N64 systems (not to mention extra controllers), but by the time that Metroid had come out the system had already been around for a while and it wasn't nearly as impressive.

Wha, wait? Goldeneye was released a year after the 64's release. Metroid was released a year after the GC's release. So how would Prime have a larger time gap than Goldeneye? I'm probably just missing something you said here but I'm confused at the moment.

[Push Upstairs]

I'm unhappy with Nintendo ( i voted 3) but oddly enough, the GC isnt one of the reasons.

I do feel that the Gamecube has potential and that it was wasted by Nintendo.

As for why exactly i am unhappy with Nintendo...well...Nintendo and Disney share the fact that they have both "lost the magic" they once had.

Once it was "they could do no wrong" now it has turned into "sometimes they get things right". Its hard to stand behind a company that seems to be living more off of its past instead of making new things to continue its great legacy.

[atomicthumbs]

I love my GameCube. There are Sooooo many great titles not available on any other system. I just can't wait for another Mario adventure game. I'm guessing the next one will be on their next system.

Sucks. I mean, the NES had THREE!

But, I'm still VERY HAPPY with the GameCube!