Was this old warning true? [Can you damage a console this way?]

[cityside75]

I remember way back when the Atari reigned supreme, people used to warn never to turn on a system without a cartridge in the slot. I think it may have even been warned in the instructions of my old Intellivision.

It used to be a common belief at least among my group of friends that if you left a system on without a cartridge in it, the console was certain to have something horrible happen to it. Looking back on this now, though, I can't recall anyone ever actually having a console break for a reason related to this.

I was working on my in-laws NES the other day, and was checking something and flipping it on and off without a cartridge in it, and it got me pondering this...

Anybody remember this/see a problem because of it?

[Lord007]

I remember way back when the Atari reigned supreme, people used to warn never to turn on a system without a cartridge in the slot. I think it may have even been warned in the instructions of my old Intellivision.

It used to be a common belief at least among my group of friends that if you left a system on without a cartridge in it, the console was certain to have something horrible happen to it. Looking back on this now, though, I can't recall anyone ever actually having a console break for a reason related to this.

I was working on my in-laws NES the other day, and was checking something and flipping it on and off without a cartridge in it, and it got me pondering this...

Anybody remember this/see a problem because of it?

I'd also like to know...Now that I'm older and wiser I'm not so sure if there would be any damage. But if I see a buddy of mine turn on the Genny or something without a cart in, I still feel that need to turn it off quick...

[Bratwurst]

Nah, the key thing is to avoid sticking a cartridge in the unit while the power's on. That'll fry the game or the system, potentially.

By itself, the cartridge port is just in a floating state when electricity's flowing through it.

[Daniel Thomas]

So what you're saying is, that's the time to pour in the maple syrup. Snap, crackle, pop!

[jokerama]

I will say no...but if you pour a little syrup on your cartridges you cant go wrong...

[spider-man]

I once had a dream (when I was a kid), where I had to eat my collection of games, due to them being so tasty. I woke thinking WTF just happened, needless to say, its was quite a weird dream LOL

[James]

I've heard this warning before as well and from what I can tell it's complete hooplaw, so there's no need to worry.

[DynastyLawyer]

Yeah. I love that stuff. Atom Bomb set to go off when you turn on the console without a game in it. Got it.

That said, it should be procedure to actually put in a game before you turn on your game-playing console. 8-)

[pineapplehead2]

I don't know if it will damage it because when you put a cart in and it doesnt work (NES Blinking screen for example) it just the same as turnning it on with out a game in it because the system is not reading it.

[James]

I don't know if it will damage it because when you put a cart in and it doesnt work (NES Blinking screen for example) it just the same as turnning it on with out a game in it because the system is not reading it.

Most people don't know this but the NES’s blinking is actually caused by a security system within the NES itself. Inside the NES attached to pin 4 I think is a special program checker, inside each cartridge attached to the adjacent pin is a program chip which communicates with the NES. This chip has a special Nintendo program written on it. If one side can't communicate with the other the NES will repeatedly reset itself until you realign the cart and reset the console. This mechanism can also easily be removed by simply cutting the wire attached to the board. I haven't done this to any of my NES's because I don't like the mutilation of old intact consoles. You may have noticed that newer model NES's don't work with Camerica and other 3rd party unlicensed carts because they wrote their own code to communicate with the NES and Nintendo found a way around this. Unlicensed carts don't work in my original NES at all because it was a late model but they do work in my other 2 NES's which are early models. Tengen actually stole the Nintendo executable code off one of these chips and put it in their cartridges which is why all Tengen released unlicensed carts work in all NES models. Tengen was also sued by Nintendo over this and had to award Nintendo $250,000,000 USD in damages or something like that. The Famicom's in Japan don't have this lockout chip which is why you need a special chip built onto the adapter card you have to run the Famicom games through in order for them to work on a NES.

[Vroomfunkel]

The warning is probably just a way of making sure that people don't accidentally put carts into the machine while it is switched on - after all, if you never switch it on without a cart in, you can't accidentally insert one, unless you take the first one out while the machine is on - in which case you've probably already done the damage that they are trying to avoid.

Re: Tengen / Nintendo .. I somehow doubt the figure of 250 million bucks ... that would be instant bankruptcy in those days (probably these days too!)

Vroomfunkel

[crazyjackcsa]

When the Sega CD came out I stopped believeing in that old rule. I mean you have to turn the Genny in without a game in it!

[Jorpho]

Wasn't there some odd infinite-lives cheat for Strider (Genesis) that involved switching on the Genny with Altered Beast inside, pulling it out and putting in the Strider cartridge? (I forget the details, but it was apparently reproducable.)

[pineapplehead2]

so you can take out a genny game with the system still on?

[Pantechnicon]

Speaking as a representative of the Atari epoch, no one was really sure how exactly these new fangled consoles were going to affect our TV's. My first Atari 2600 was relegated to the black and white portable for fear that it would "blow up" the color Curtis Mathes if we played it too long. :shameful:

[vulcanjedi]

Wasn't there some odd infinite-lives cheat for Strider (Genesis) that involved switching on the Genny with Altered Beast inside, pulling it out and putting in the Strider cartridge? (I forget the details, but it was apparently reproducable.)

Yes

And it is the way you play Budokan on a mod 2 genesis. You stick in an altered beast, turn it on and wait for the sega logo to go away. Pop the cart out without turning it off. Pop in the Budokan. Hit the reset button.

This also gives you some extra something with afterburner and Rambo too.

But you are also likely to fry a console doing this. One cross pin connection in the wrong spot and BAM!

VJ

[VinnyT]

:eek 2:
I remember when I put a game in an already on Atari, I fried it. I was REAL young at the time and probably started crying.

[Jorpho]

Speaking as a representative of the Atari epoch, no one was really sure how exactly these new fangled consoles were going to affect our TV's. My first Atari 2600 was relegated to the black and white portable for fear that it would "blow up" the color Curtis Mathes if we played it too long. :shameful:

Didn't the Commodore 64 start to malfunction if used for too long?

[Fungus]

Ok guys, all you youngins can stop speculating now. I have first hand knowledge of effing up my 2600 by flipping it on without a cart in. If you don't believe me, just try it yourself. There're plenty of 2600s out there to experiment with. I advise not to tho'.

[sisko]

Ok guys, all you youngins can stop speculating now. I have first hand knowledge of effing up my 2600 by flipping it on without a cart in. If you don't believe me, just try it yourself. There're plenty of 2600s out there to experiment with. I advise not to tho'.


Hmmm....? I've done this several times by mistake, and my 2600 is still alive and well. Same with an NES. Granted I did turn off the system before putting a cart in....


...This mechanism can also easily be removed by simply cutting the wire attached to the board. ...

Can anyone with experience confirm or deny this? It seems to make sense since the extra pins on an NES cart are for the Lockout chip otherwise not present on a Famicom.....right?

[Dimitri]

[quote=James]...This mechanism can also easily be removed by simply cutting the wire attached to the board. ...
Can anyone with experience confirm or deny this? It seems to make sense since the extra pins on an NES cart are for the Lockout chip otherwise not present on a Famicom.....right?
I can confirm as I've done this myself. You cut one of the pins on the security chip inside the system, and it doesn't blnk anymore. Doesn't do a reset when you play unlicensed games, either -- made my Micro Machines start working, even... 8-)

What this does is basically puts the security chip in an unstable state, as depending on the state of this pin the chip acts as either a lock (normal in the system) or a key (normal in a cart...the same chip is used both in carts and in the system)...when you cut the pin it changes the state, so both chips act as "keys", and the security system stops functioning.

[sisko]

...This mechanism can also easily be removed by simply cutting the wire attached to the board. ...
Can anyone with experience confirm or deny this? It seems to make sense since the extra pins on an NES cart are for the Lockout chip otherwise not present on a Famicom.....right?
I can confirm as I've done this myself. You cut one of the pins on the security chip inside the system, and it doesn't blnk anymore. Doesn't do a reset when you play unlicensed games, either -- made my Micro Machines start working, even... 8-)

What this does is basically puts the security chip in an unstable state, as depending on the state of this pin the chip acts as either a lock (normal in the system) or a key (normal in a cart...the same chip is used both in carts and in the system)...when you cut the pin it changes the state, so both chips act as "keys", and the security system stops functioning.

Sweet Jeebus! Who knew that the solution to all of my problems is a simple snip away! (No vasectomy jokes please)

Can you provide a schematic/photos of the procedure for me?

[Jorpho]

http://nesworld.parodius.com/unines2.htm

[Cauterize]

I cant recommend that Uni Nes guide enough, its the first mod i ever performmed and it brought new life into my Nes!

Easy as hell to do too.... Good Luck Captain!

[Technosis]

If you look in some of the instruction manuals for say the Atari 2600, they mention to NEVER pull a game out while the console is on. They make it sound like the world will end if you do it LOL! Is this overkill, or has someone actually damaged a game or consoile this way?

[FantasiaWHT]

Reminds me of the stupid Windows icon "Safely remove hardware". What, if I pull it out I might hurt myself?

[Barbarianoutkast85]

When I was younger I used to think if I pulled the cart out that it would just EXPLODE!!!! But my cousin used to do it all the time with his Genesis/SNES/N64 and I just happened to own his old Genesis/SNES/N64 and they still work fine. So my guess is nope it dont do's no damage's yall.

[InsaneDavid]

The chances of it hurting something are slim, but you must remember that when running a cartridge an electrical connection is being made between the system and the cartridge itself. Yanking it out while it's running can be equivalent to removing an IC from the console, cutting a trace in the PCB, breaking a resistor off, etc. = it causes a short of such.

[Diatribal Deity]

It's kind of like filling your gas tank while leaving the car running...only without the whole risk of a fiery explosion.

[icbrkr]

I killed a Pitfall 2 cart this way back in the day - something fried during the removal (static on the DSP chip?) and it never worked again :/

[Pantechnicon]

It seems like one would do more damage trying to insert a cart while the machine is powered on. But either way in most cases the game won't load so I don't see the point in experimenting with it.

Related story: At CGE2000 I was sharing a hotel room with Ubikuberalles. I had brought my Atari 5200 along and we were trying out some of the new carts I'd gotten. Ubik knew something about the 5200 that I didn't; that it actually supports "hot-swapping" of carts without powering off the machine. So when Ubik casually reached over to my 5200, yoinked out one cart and then jammed another in without going anywhere near the power button, I just stared at him in muted panic, wondering if he had lost his mind or something LOL.

[TurboGenesis]

Back in the early 1990's, Gamepro Magazine published some tricks to do on the Sega Genesis which would involve removing a cartridge and replacing with another cartridge all while the power was on. Tricks ranged from 99 lives to Japanese title screens. They would put a yellow box next to the trick with BIG warning stating that these tricks 'could damage console and Gamepro Magazine is not responsible - Try at own risk.'

Well I took risk and did several of these tricks, and my Genesis, it is run like a champion today :D

Is there any real harm? Maybe, but it may be of 0.001%. The warning is need to be there because many people are dumb and need to be told everything and console manufacture is need to cover their self because dumb people are then file suit :roll:

[ccovell]

Anecdotal evidence: I did indeed fry both a Genesis and Phantasy Star II cart by hot-swapping the cart this way. A short could happen. It probably won't but don't act all surprised if it does happen.

[Jorpho]

See also previous comments at http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55797 .

Wasn't this also an effective way of erasing SNES game saves somehow?

[VACRMH]

Reminds me of the stupid Windows icon "Safely remove hardware". What, if I pull it out I might hurt myself?

Not stupid for me, i've corrupted data by not using that option.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I'd imagine games with battery backup would get messed up, but normal games? I dunno.

I still won't try it. :p

[Vectorman0]

See also previous comments at http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55797 .

Wasn't this also an effective way of erasing SNES game saves somehow?

Thanks for that link, I merged the topics.

As far as game saves go, I have heard it being used to erase game saves before. My attempts to clear a GBC save were unsuccessful though, using this method.

[Gamingking]

I turn it off with a disc/cartridge still inserted.

[rbudrick]

Someone mentioned a cheat for certain genny games where you swap carts while the system is on, and you end up with certain things like infinite lives or invincibility or stage selects.

Yes, it's true and it works on several games, including Thunder Force II, Last Battle, and probably many others I don't know about. It doesn't matter what other game is in there beforehand. Hell, you can use the same cart, honestly.

Anyway, speaking from first-hand knowledge This trick can indeed do harm. I figured I'd try the same trick on Thunder Force III once. After a few tries, I noticed it did do some strange things to the life and score counter, but nothing to write home about. After a few more tries, the TF III cart was dead as a doornail. Just a black screen, nothing else. It was a rental...ummm, luckily. Yeah.

So, for the doubters out there. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! THE THREAT IS REAL! No joke.

-Rob

[mailman187666]

it seems like from everybodies mixed results that we can pretty much agree that you are at risk for frying your system or game so its really not worth doing unless by mistake. Maybe some systems and games are more prone for dying than others.

[chuckwalla]

Didn't the Commodore 64 start to malfunction if used for too long?

Fried power supply (that sucker gets HOT after a little while) and sometimes it will take the C64 with it. I went through three C64's in the 1980's because of that crappo power supply. If you use C64 hardware, you need a power supply with voltage over-regulation or you're risking it.

When it comes to the power-on warning for consoles, i've accidentally taken out and inserted cartridges into 2600's and Colecovisions with power on and luckily haven't had any problems - pretty lucky compared to some others.

[chuckwalla]

Curiously, the Translator cartridge for the Atari XL/XE mandates that you to pull it and then insert the cart you want to use - all done with power on.

[Barbarianoutkast85]

http://nesworld.parodius.com/unines2.htm

So this actually works? I'm going to have to try this out tonight, on one of the spare toaster oven NES machines.

[Cryomancer]

Speaking as a representative of the Atari epoch, no one was really sure how exactly these new fangled consoles were going to affect our TV's. My first Atari 2600 was relegated to the black and white portable for fear that it would "blow up" the color Curtis Mathes if we played it too long. :shameful:

Similar story told for us on the big TV upstairs right now. You know, the one with "game mode" options? Yeah.

I want to get a 360 eventually, but hell if there's any decent TVs in the house I could actually play it on. Looks like VGA for me.

[john_soper]

When you pull a cart out, there might be a short instant of time when the VCC pin is not connected and the part is being powered through the address or data lines. Not sure how bad this would be, the rule of thumb is to avoid it.

[8-bitNesMan]

Is there any real harm? Maybe, but it may be of 0.001%. The warning is need to be there because many people are dumb and need to be told everything and console manufacture is need to cover their self because dumb people are then file suit :roll:

"Because dumb people are then file suit" ???

So how many lawsuits have you filed lately junior? ;)

[rbudrick]

So this actually works? I'm going to have to try this out tonight, on one of the spare toaster oven NES machines.

Yep, it works. Most games don't blink anymore for me and I can now play PAL games. :-)

-Rob

[TurboGenesis]

"Because dumb people are then file suit" ???

So how many lawsuits have you filed lately junior? ;)

Excuse me if I am not speak good English like you are. I am Vietnamese and I am get shit on my whole life because of it :roll:

Thanks mate.

[8-bitNesMan]

Excuse me if I am not speak good English like you are. I am Vietnamese and I am get shit on my whole life because of it :roll:

Thanks mate.

Just yanking your chain man. Where's your sense of humor? :D

[TurboGenesis]

Just yanking your chain man. Where's your sense of humor? :D

I am sorry :embarrassed:

Sometime I take things serious. I am take alot of abuse as I grow up.
I don't mean any harm :)

[8-bitNesMan]

I'm sorry you had it rough growing up. Please understand that I didn't mean to offend you. Cheers!

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Wasn't there some odd infinite-lives cheat for Strider (Genesis) that involved switching on the Genny with Altered Beast inside, pulling it out and putting in the Strider cartridge? (I forget the details, but it was apparently reproducable.)

There were more than a few Genesis launch, and early wave titles that involved hot-swapping between games to get strange cheats ...

I remember Last Battle had some kind of infinite lives reward ... does anybody have a complete list of those "cartridge swap" tricks for the Genesis?

[rbudrick]

There were more than a few Genesis launch, and early wave titles that involved hot-swapping between games to get strange cheats ...

I remember Last Battle had some kind of infinite lives reward ... does anybody have a complete list of those "cartridge swap" tricks for the Genesis?

Great idea, Frankie...I can't believe no one has ever brought these tricks up before. I remember reading about them in mags and saying, "WTF!? Who the hell figured this shit out!" It became only slightly clearer when I realized that the games it works on don't require you put in specific other games first...just use the same cart.

I'll add one:

Last Battle:
Everyone knows you can continue in Last Battle if you've made it past stage 1. You just hold ABC and hit start. A Stage Select appears allowing you to continue. To make the Stage Select appear without playing a single level, pull out the cart while the system is on and put it back in. Hit reset, then hold ABC at the title screen. It may take a few tries, but the Stage Select should appear.

I don't remember what the Thunder Force II one does (invincibility or unlimited lives or something, I think). Anyone wanna tell us that one?

-Rob

[Blitzwing256]

just a note about why these tricks work

when the genesis is reset its not a full hard reboot of the system, when you first turn the system on with a game it sets certain options in memory, when you hit reset those options like lives stage etcetc stay the same, so when you pull a game out with the power on and hit reset its not clearing the ram properly hence why most of the sega brand games have glitched out options. you'll note it only works on games with changeable options or "cheats" that require certain conditions to be made (like moon walker and last battle's stage selects)

a few of the more fun things you can do include getting dificulties on streets of rage 1 and 2 that just don't exist, super hard ones or insanely easy ones where mr X has less then half an energy meeter or where y.signal has 4 stars of life.

thunderforce 2:
you can get 255 lives,

altered beast:
you can mess with all the options in the 3 secret options,
inculding getting glitced out transformations that most likely will freeze the game


strider:
infinate lives

moonwalker:
stage select and invicinbility sometimes

revenge of shinobi:
unlimted lives and odd numbers of shurikens.
(you can also sometimes get the japanese title screen as well)

thunderforce 3:
you can mess up the high score (woo?)

eswat:
infinate lives

Streets of rage:
infinate lives, and new dificulites

Streets of rage 2:
infinate lives, new dificulty levels.
one thing i remeber is if you go to the options and hit left in most of these games you can change the messed up options a bit, if you hit right you tend to reset things to the default.

super thunderblade:
infinate lives

Space harrier 2:
infinate lives

Mystic defender:
start with other "spells" and I believe a level select.

i've never had last battle so I havn't been able to test that game out myself.

aside from sor1 and 2 you'll note most of those games are original release games

i've also been told you can't do it on some of the later genesis systems as they fixed the ram "bug" i've only ever had the release model so I havn't tested that theory.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Great idea, Frankie...I can't believe no one has ever brought these tricks up before. I remember reading about them in mags and saying, "WTF!? Who the hell figured this shit out!" It became only slightly clearer when I realized that the games it works on don't require you put in specific other games first...just use the same cart.

I'll add one:

Last Battle:
Everyone knows you can continue in Last Battle if you've made it past stage 1. You just hold ABC and hit start. A Stage Select appears allowing you to continue. To make the Stage Select appear without playing a single level, pull out the cart while the system is on and put it back in. Hit reset, then hold ABC at the title screen. It may take a few tries, but the Stage Select should appear.

I don't remember what the Thunder Force II one does (invincibility or unlimited lives or something, I think). Anyone wanna tell us that one?

-Rob

Really? You could get it to work by ripping the same cart out and putting it back in?

I thought you needed to use a specific cart like Altered Beast or Revenge of Shinobi FIRST and then swap in the cart that you wanted to do the specific trick to.

If you could do it by just ripping and re-inserting the SAME game that's pretty cool!

[Blitzwing256]

you get better effects from games that have more options like altered beast and sor, but some of the glitches work with the same game

[Jorpho]

when the genesis is reset its not a full hard reboot of the system, when you first turn the system on with a game it sets certain options in memory, when you hit reset those options like lives stage etcetc stay the same, so when you pull a game out with the power on and hit reset its not clearing the ram properly hence why most of the sega brand games have glitched out options. you'll note it only works on games with changeable options or "cheats" that require certain conditions to be made (like moon walker and last battle's stage selects)

Ah, that must be why you can get the best ending in Sonic 1 by accessing the Bonus Stage in the Stage Select repeatedly before starting a new game (or selecting the final stage).

[Blitzwing256]

yup, also why the reset thing in the mojo level of xmen works.