No more Dual Shock controllers?

[Lemmy Kilmister]

click click (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=332037)

Wow, just wow. I just found this link on another site and thought you people would like to know. So I wonder if the PS3 will just have a typical analog controller then?

[portnoyd]

There has to be something missing from this. Bad translation perhaps? The article is REALLY short too for something pretty big. Sony has to stop selling PSOnes and PS2s?!

dave

[Mayhem]

They have to stop selling PS1 and PS2 units with the dual shock controller. Patent infringement. IIRC Microsoft settled ages ago and licensed it instead, hence they are out of this current court proceeding. Sony decided to fight and it appears they've lost.

[JJNova]

They could just take out the Rumble. or perhaps make the grasping section a little more slender and sleek, which I think it needs anyway. The plastic rubs into my knuckles upon extended play.

In the United States to avoid patent infringements I believe it only needs to be a 5 Percent difference. I don't think it'll be a devestating blow to gamers of the older consoles that were forced tpo use DualShocks. I guess this explains why Sony announced they wouldn't be using the DualShock design for the PS#

[Cauterize]

Ouch For Sony! (if this is a accurate source)

Does this mean Immersion Corp. own the rights to rumbling controllers and so on? But Microsoft made a deal with them a while back?

[TheRedEye]

Ouch For Sony! (if this is a accurate source)

Does this mean Immersion Corp. own the rights to rumbling controllers and so on? But Microsoft made a deal with them a while back?

Immersion has a patent for a particular type of vibrating controller, using two motors. Microsoft escaped a lawsuit by buying a lot of Immersion's stock, Nintendo avoided it by being the only company to actually recognize the patent and find a design loophole. Sony was just kind of left out in the cold.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

I'm more curious about the 40 games they have to stop selling...

[vintagegamecrazy]

What games are those? Will those maybe collectable?

[goatdan]

Interesting. I'd definitely like to hear more...

[Muscelli]

What games are those? Will those maybe collectable?

ape escape, and some others that use analog stuff

[calthaer]

Immersion's patent isn't just for controllers, but for all sorts of vibrating devices. I have a Logitech iFeel mouse that has vibration with it (games that support it, quite frankly, RULE. A rumbling machine gun on the mouse almost feels like you're holding the gun!) and has Immersion software for the Windows desktop. They have talked about putting it in car steering wheels (not game wheels, real car wheels) and all sorts of other things (medical products, handicap mobility products, etc.).

They invented and patented it, so they should get their dues from the console-makers.

[shoes23]

PS2 Dual Shock is the only thing that made playing FPS on a console possible. That and to recoup the losses of the lawsuit Sony needs to sell another 650,000 consoles!

[sisko]

PS2 Dual Shock is the only thing that made playing FPS on a console possible. That and to recoup the losses of the lawsuit Sony needs to sell another 650,000 consoles!

I disagree with that statment.


Several FPS have been released on consoles without the aid of dual shock and have become excellent sellers, most notably:

SNES:
Doom

N64:
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark

Dreamcast:
Quake 3

[Leo_A]

P. T. Barnum was right.

[shoes23]

PS2 Dual Shock is the only thing that made playing FPS on a console possible. That and to recoup the losses of the lawsuit Sony needs to sell another 650,000 consoles!

I disagree with that statment.


Several FPS have been released on consoles without the aid of dual shock and have become excellent sellers, most notably:

SNES:
Doom

N64:
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark

Dreamcast:
Quake 3

I'll give you the N64 games...but aim and strafing is done easier on a Dual Shock than any other controller I've used (short of a keyboard and mouse).

[Mayhem]

You must like the dual shock for some reason; no one I know can get to grips with a FPS using it, including myself. We all prefer either the controller-S from Microsoft or standard Cube pad.

[16-bit]

What games are those? Will those maybe collectable?

....Katamari Damacy :(

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Oh my god.... so what will become of Everybody Loves Katamari Damacy? Does this basically say that they just cant use the rumbling features, or the idea of the two analog sticks?

[Gamereviewgod]

You must like the dual shock for some reason; no one I know can get to grips with a FPS using it, including myself. We all prefer either the controller-S from Microsoft or standard Cube pad.


Um, no? The second analog stick is useless on the GC for FPS. The size difference is irratating. Never had a problem with the PS2 controller for any games. The four shoulder buttons allow for more control than any of the competion the d-pad simply rocks for 2-D stuff.

[Crush Crawfish]

Oh my god.... so what will become of Everybody Loves Katamari Damacy? Does this basically say that they just cant use the rumbling features, or the idea of the two analog sticks?

Oh god, please let this be BS...I'll seriously go insane if Katamari 2 gets cancelled because of this lawsuit crap. And no more ape escape as well? Stupid world we live in.

[PrototypeFC3S]

I may be wrong, but this is REALLY old news. That company has been after Sony and their controllers for a LONG time. I remember reading about this about a year ago. If anything, this artical seems to be left in the cold.:/

And IIRC, Sony already forked over a bunch of money to them for this problem.

[Mayhem]

Um, no? The second analog stick is useless on the GC for FPS. The size difference is irratating. Never had a problem with the PS2 controller for any games. The four shoulder buttons allow for more control than any of the competion the d-pad simply rocks for 2-D stuff.

Guess we have a difference of opinion here ;)

I'd like to see you take me on at Timesplitters 2 for Cube now heh... utter mastery of the C stick on my part. Sure I'll say it isn't perfect, but get on with it far, far better than using the other analog on dual shock for it, far too loose and inaccurate.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Oh my god.... so what will become of Everybody Loves Katamari Damacy? Does this basically say that they just cant use the rumbling features, or the idea of the two analog sticks?

Oh god, please let this be BS...I'll seriously go insane if Katamari 2 gets cancelled because of this lawsuit crap. And no more ape escape as well? Stupid world we live in.

No, it will be made in Japan, so I'll just have to mod my PS2... or something...

[pineapplehead2]

im a bit confussed, are they after the rumble pak inside or the analog controller?

[slip81]

It sucks for us games who liked the Dual Shock, and because of that fact that certain games won't be available anymore, but part of me is glad Sony got bit in the ass.

I find it hard to believe that both Nintendo and MS knew about the patent and did something to avoid legal issues and Sony didn't. It seems more likely that Sony just tried to get away with using a patented design/feature and not paying for it.

[GarrettCRW]

Which games?

[Leo_A]

It isn't true, so don't worry about it.

[GarrettCRW]

So you're saying that this is another BS thread?

Does anyone have The Boss' number? I need to recommend some more wrathful vengeance from our Fearless Leader. :angry:

[Leo_A]

I'm not 100% sure, but if its true, you'd of seen it at some other places. That would be huge news if it was.

[Sosage]

What games are those? Will those maybe collectable?

via Slashdot, legit?

ORDER ENTERING PERMANENT INJUNCTION AND GRANTING DEFENDANTS' MOTION TO STAY INJUNCTION PENDING APPEAL

For the reasons set forth in its January 10, 2005 Order, and having entered judgment in favor of Plaintiff Immersion Corp. (Immersion), the Court hereby PERMANENTLY ENJOINS Defendants Sony Computer Entertainment America, Inc., (SCEA) and Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc., (SCEI) (collectively Sony) from manufacturing, using, and/or selling in, or importing into, the United States the infringing Sony Playstation system, including its Playstation consoles, Dualshock controllers, and those games found by the jury to infringe. [FN1: The jury found that the following games, in conjunction with the Playstation consoles and Dualshock controllers, infringed either the '213 patent, the '333 patent or both patents: A Bug's Life; Amplitude; Ape Escape; Atlantis: The Lost Empire; Bloody Roar 2; Cool Boarders 3; Cool Boarders 4; Cool Boarders 2001; Crash Bash; Crash Team Racing; Drakan: The Ancients' Gate; Emperor's New Groove; Extermination; FantaVision; Final Fantasy X; Formula One 2001; The Getaway; Gran Turismo; Gran Turismo 2; Gran Turismo 3; Grand Theft Auto: Vice City; Grand Theft Auto 3; Grind Session; ICO; Jak & Daxter; Kinetica; Kingdom Hearts; Legend of the Dragoon; The Mark of Kri; Medal of Honor Frontline; Medievil 2; Metal Gear Solid 2; Monster's, Inc.; Sly Cooper and the Thievius Racoonus; SOCOM Navy Seals; Speed Punks; Spyro: Ripto's Rage; Spyro: Year of the Dragon; Stuart Little 2; Syphon Filter 2; Syphon Filter 3; Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3; Twisted Metal: Black; Twisted Metal 4; Twisted Metal: Small Brawl; Treasure Planet; and War of the Monsters.] As described in the January 10 Order, no recall is required of products already sold, but Sony will pay a license fee on all products already placed in the stream of co

[SoulBlazer]

Looks like your post gpt cut off.

And notice how it says at the top:

GRANTING DEFENDANTS' MOTION TO STAY INJUNCTION PENDING APPEAL

That means until the appeal is heard all these games and the PS2 and the controllers can STILL be sold. And that appeal could take MONTHS for it to be heard. In the meantime, I'm sure Sony will reach a deal with the company to settle this.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

It isn't true, so don't worry about it.

Wow, that is really convincing.

[Snapple]

I, hate, vibration controllers. Good riddance.

This "gimmick" hasn't been innovative or even fun since the very first vibration-supported game, Starfox 64. That was the only game where I ever enjoyed the vibration. Now I always just turn it off.


If the problem is with the dual analog part, THEN I have a problem. The PS2 controller is fantastic, and I'll be damned if someone takes it from me.

[bargora]

I, hate, vibration controllers. Good riddance.

This "gimmick" hasn't been innovative or even fun since the very first vibration-supported game, Starfox 64. That was the only game where I ever enjoyed the vibration. Now I always just turn it off.


If the problem is with the dual analog part, THEN I have a problem. The PS2 controller is fantastic, and I'll be damned if someone takes it from me.
Thank you for posting. Your IP has been logged and your spineless ISP is currently coughing up your address. And blood, too, as Sothy Squad has just ripped out its spine. Do not panic. Sothy Squad will be en route shortly to seize your illegal PS2 controller(s).

[Snapple]

You'll never take me alive! I'll succeed from the union!

[smork]

Even more legit, it's on Business Week:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D893OTH80.htm?campaign_id=apn_tech_down

Since it's under appeal I'm sure there'll be a settlement somewhere. Sony's not going to risk losing one of their core businesses on appeal.

[JJNova]

Don't I feel Stupid.



"According to Japan Today, the U.S. District Court in Oakland, California, has ordered Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. and its U.S. unit to pay $90.7 million in damages to Immersion Corp. for patent infringement over controllers used with PlayStation game consoles. In the ruling handed down Thursday, the federal court also ordered Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Entertainment America Inc. to stop selling the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game consoles using Dualshock controllers as well as more than 40 game software products."

[Jasoco]

I never liked that controller either. I hope this means maybe they'll redo the PS3 controllers to fit peoples hands better. The PS2/PSX controllers were never designed to have the sticks. They work fine until I need to reach the damn stick(s).

The Xbox Big controller will always be king in my book.

[Xantan the Foul]

Does this mean I should stock up on controllers now?

[Leo_A]

Looks like all the sites I depend on for information were off for Easter. :)

Guess it was true. But I'm sure it will never happen, Sony will either win or cut a deal with them (Which is what this company wants I bet).

[studvicious]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_sony_lawsuit

more reading..

[Aussie2B]

The original PlayStation controller is better anyway. ;) Feels better, the d-pad is better, it's designed better, etc. Not long ago I opened a Dual Shock for the first time to clean it, and I was disgusted at how poorly constructed it was. The wires were just a mess. The original controllers can withstand just about anything (although the thin piece over the d-pad tends to break), and they're a breeze to open and clean.

[DeputyMoniker]

Ignore this post...

[YoshiM]

im a bit confussed, are they after the rumble pak inside or the analog controller?

They are after Sony about the rumbling, not the analog control. Nintendo was able to skirt around this patent by having the rumble control available as an optional accessory and thus patented it. I think with the Cube they just did an extension of their patent, but I'm not 100% on that.

[DeputyMoniker]

And it was also in Japan Today -
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&id=332037


HERE (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56802&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0/) is an interesting thread based off that article. LOL

[Jasoco]

Ignore this post...I'll try.

[Push Upstairs]

Ignore this post...

I wish i could but that picture in your sig..... :love:



If all this crap is about the rumble function in the controllers then i can live without that.

[Iron Draggon]

Dang, guess I need to get off my butt and get a pair of dual shocks for my PS1! I don't own ANY of the games in that list though, so is there even a need for me to get a pair of dual shocks? Do they work with other games? I've always wanted to try them out, I've just never gotten around to it yet.

[punkoffgirl]

Looks like your post gpt cut off.

And notice how it says at the top:

GRANTING DEFENDANTS' MOTION TO STAY INJUNCTION PENDING APPEAL

That means until the appeal is heard all these games and the PS2 and the controllers can STILL be sold. And that appeal could take MONTHS for it to be heard. In the meantime, I'm sure Sony will reach a deal with the company to settle this.

But from what I've read and seem to understand, while there is an stay for the injunction to stop sales and production, I *believe* that Sony will still have to pay licensing fees in the meantime.

[joshnickerson]

They are after Sony about the rumbling, not the analog control. Nintendo was able to skirt around this patent by having the rumble control available as an optional accessory and thus patented it. I think with the Cube they just did an extension of their patent, but I'm not 100% on that.

From what I've read, Nintendo was actually the only one that bothered to licence the technology, thus paying a licence fee and free from any wrongdoing.