I've been thinking...

[jetsetradio4ever]

What's wrong with all of those so-called "gamers" (no offense to other gamers) who hate games with bad graphics. I mean, seriously, without Atari and Magnavox Oddessey, we wouldn't be where we were today.How can you like a game depending on it's graphics?! That's not even why I like games like RE4 and REmake.

[imanerd0011]

What's wrong with all of those so-called "gamers" (no offense to other gamers) who hate games with bad graphics. I mean, seriously, without Atari and Magnavox Oddessey, we wouldn't be where we were today.How can you like a game depending on it's graphics?! That's not even why I like games like RE4 and REmake.


Well, I think many people don't like games that are before their time. I too am kind of like this. I like very few games that were made before I was born, or games that were popular when I was too young to play them. I realize that systems like the Atari 2600 paved the way for the games we have today, but I just can't play the games if offers. Pac-Man is the only really old game that I like alot. I think it aged really well, and will still be a great game in another 50 years.

I enjoy the NES, because I LOVED it when I was growing up. Many of the games bring back great memories, and I find alot of the games to be very fun as well.

[pacmanhat]

I think it's kinda like a beautiful woman (or something to that effect) - it's the first appealing thing people notice, and if you're shallow enough it's the only thing you notice. It somewhat translates through to a casual (but not necessrily shallow) gamer - if it's pretty, it's good and you should buy it. Gameplay isn't considered nearly enough, but let's face it - as long as the only thing on the back of the box is pictures, graphics are gonna be the biggest selling point to most people. It's a shame, but that's the way it goes.

[jetsetradio4ever]

Well yes but at least your not the kind of person to be so snobbish as to say "Those graphics suck! That game sucks!" People even say this about games like Katamary Damaci (pardon the spelling). I even know a guy who nearly got beat up for having a Gameboy Pocket. You know why? Everyone I know thinks that it's 'gay.'

[Cryomancer]

Don't worry, someday it won't be a fad anymore and those people will be too busy bitching about something in the new fad they're caught up in to bother you.

[MegaDrive20XX]

Don't worry, someday it won't be a fad anymore and those people will be too busy bitching about something in the new fad they're caught up in to bother you.

Exactly what he said

Yet, to answer the first question...Define bad graphics? Because for me, it's all about Gameplay before graphics imho

[Cirrus]

I noticed this, too. I think I agree with the first reply, that basically people can go back as far as they actually played originally, and not much farther. To a degree, that's true for me, too. My first system was a 2600, and I don't play many of the systems that were out before then. I have very little interest in some of the older computers you will find them lauding over in magazines like Retro Gamer. It's partly the graphics, partly the speed, and partly the fact that the programmers had so little to work with. Back then, some of the things they were doing is amazing, but they will never be amazing to me because I was never there.

Back to the graphics, I was at Gamestop somewhat recently and buying up a few good PSone games, and of course they tried to hawk a bunch of frigging reserve offers at me. I told them I don't buy up too much of the current gen games because they are way too pricey, and he said "Yeah, I know, but I can't play games unless they have the best graphics." I asked him, "Even Psone?", and he said he just couldn't stand the graininess.

I really like great graphics. I get a huge kick out of playing that Riddick game on the XBOX (which is a good game, believe it or not) partly because of how amazing it looks. Why not? There are a ton of reasons to love a game and graphics are one of them.

The only time that graphics restrict me from playing games is some of the original attempts at moving into 3D. Some old "3D" driving games, and a handful of the longbox PSOne games look SO bad because they just did an awful job of putting the game in three dimensions. I'm all about 2D graphics, and I'm sure I'm not alone on that one, around here. ;)

[crazyjackcsa]

The only time bad graphics bother me is when they can't effectively portray what is going on. IE Pop Up, Slowdown, And clipping issues, polygons dropping out, improper shadows. Stuff like that. I also hate slowdown.

[NeoZeedeater]

I think it's kind of sad that a lot of people won't play games that were before their time. I used to be like that with movies, not wanting to watch anything in black and white. But now I can watch stuff like that and appreciate it. Knowing the context of when something was released makes things more impressive too. The same applies to video games. A lot of the early ones have aged incredibly well anyway, especially arcade games.

[Cirrus]

I think it's kind of sad that a lot of people won't play games that were before their time. I used to be like that with movies, not wanting to watch anything in black and white. But now I can watch stuff like that and appreciate it. Knowing the context of when something was released makes things more impressive too. The same applies to video games. A lot of the early ones have aged incredibly well anyway, especially arcade games.

Well, I understand what you mean, and I certainly play every arcade game (mame-style) but I really didn't miss many video game systems. Just the ones from the 70s, mostly.

I am mostly referring to the old Atari computers, and those computers that use tapes (tapes, not cartridges), etc... they were so far before my time.

I also enjoy old movies, and see where you are coming from.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

Well, if the graphics of a game are so bad, making it unplayable, thats a good reason. If a game that came out... today on the PS2 looked like an early PS1 title, I think that a lot of people wouldnt like it, because its sort of like 'the technology is there... use it'.

[Sothy]

I have fond memories of games like Mario Bros. and Bionic commando.. but you cant ever get that magic back man, sitting there for 8 hours playing Mario... just doesnt do it like it used to.

Gotta have respect for the classics but dont honestly act surprised when your nephew wont sit down with Yars revenge and play like its Halo, aint gonna happen.

[Cirrus]

I have fond memories of games like Mario Bros. and Bionic commando.. but you cant ever get that magic back man, sitting there for 8 hours playing Mario... just doesnt do it like it used to.

Gotta have respect for the classics but dont honestly act surprised when your nephew wont sit down with Yars revenge and play like its Halo, aint gonna happen.

Very true, my little cousins and I play games a lot, and they do have a short interest in something like Bubble Bobble/ TMNT 2, but put them in front of Soul Calibur 2 or Power Stone 2 and they would be occupied for days.

[cowmando6]

So then people today are basically graphics whores? :P

[jdc]

Well.....the Cube, DC, PS2 and Xbox (especially Xbox) make it rather easy to be a graphics whore. You can't blame Joe Average for preferring modern eye candy.

I remember when I started with the N64. I honestly thought that the graphics were SO realistic. I have a strong fondness for the system....I collect it. Playing it? I've clocked YEARS of time on the console but it takes me a bit of play time to "adjust downwards" to the graphics, considering that most of my time is now spent on 128 bit, but it doesn't detract from the experience of playing the game. The N64 is weird anyways (that's why I love it). It's not exactly retro, and not completely modern.

I have some pre-N64 stuff but I rarely fire them up, and have a hard time getting into them....not because of the graphics quality.....but rather because of the over-the-top difficulty of the older systems.

I've heard plenty of comments from Joe Average about 128 being shit as well, so it isn't just retro that they can dislike. Strangely enough, look at Grand Theft Auto 3 and 4.....wildly popular and the graphics are not exactly the best. Hell....even Halo 2 isn't up to snuff for Xbox graphics. Sudeki blows it away without even trying but Halo 2 is still playable and sold a shitload. Joe Average didn't care that the graphics in these games were less than stellar.

[Aussie2B]

Well, I too don't play much from before when I started gaming with the NES. It's not that I don't want to; it's just that I haven't found any of the systems at an affordable price yet. And since I have no nostalgia or experience with those games, it's not a priority to me, since I wouldn't even know very much about what games to get. Sort of an ignorance is bliss kinda situation. I'm much more inclined to go after the stuff that I already know about and have a strong interest in. Also, NES and pre-NES gaming are two distinct types of gaming. Growing up with the NES style taught me to love games by the Japanese and game with a clear progression of beginning to end, so I don't even know how much I may like those older games. I'll just have to wait and see, I suppose. O_o Ultimately, I don't think it has to do with graphics much.

I have a couple friends that don't care to play older games unless they played them as a child, but they're not about to be jackasses about how we play all kinds of older stuff. I guess I'm fortunate in that I don't know anyone that absolutely REFUSES to play something unless it's the latest, "greatest" thing. At least those aforementioned friends can still have a great time playing stuff like Zelda 1 and Battle of Olympus with us. :)

[FantasiaWHT]

There's a HUGE difference between "simple" graphics and "bad" graphics.

IMO, a lot of 32/64 bit era stuff was UGLY. 3D just did not look good, no matter how it was done. Honestly I still think 3D has a very long way to go before it starts to look appealing to me. ONCE in a while I'll see a still shot and think it looks good, but anything moving (especially human figures) is still sooooooo far off that it looks horrid to me.

[Sartori]

I disregard anything before the 1985 NES system. I don't feel that Atari, Coleco, Intelli, etc contributed as much to the gaming industry as Nintendo did by a long shot, and thus I have an issue with disregarding them.

I've played many games on my 2600 and so forth, but I never felt the ignition that the NES ignited.

At any rate, I don't appreciate people who can't appreciate the past as a whole.

[AlexKidd]

I wouldn't say I'm one of these people who won't play a game with bad graphics. I care about good graphics to some extent but when determining what is good and bad I think of games only for that system. Sure, every 2600 game looks like crap when comparing it to Doom 3 or Halo 2 but I personally think Atlantis and Galaxian have excellent graphics. Adventure is a game that actually does have pretty awful graphics and is still enjoyable to play once you get past that. I pretty much have no problem with 2d games on any system. I was born in '85 and I own and play vectrex,2600,sms,nes etc. However some of those early 3d games look so bad they're unplayable. Many of the 3d games on the jag,32x,saturn and psx look terribly dated. They definitely should have come out with more 2d games on those systems because those looked great.Personally I prefer the graphics in Symphony of the Night to those in any 128 bit game.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

There's a HUGE difference between "simple" graphics and "bad" graphics.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[Aussie2B]

There's a HUGE difference between "simple" graphics and "bad" graphics.

That reminds me of a point I was trying to make when I wrote a review on Final Fantasy 7. There is an issue of design, when it comes to graphics, and good design is a timeless thing. I was trying to make the point that some of the graphics in that game were poorly designed to begin with, such as the bizarre toothpick biceps and block hands. It isn't an issue of the game looking outdated now nor an issue of limitations back then. They COULD have designed the graphics in a more appealing and less awkward looking way (and they did in the battles). On the other hand, I'll look at a game like the first Super Mario Bros., and while its graphics are very simple, I can't really find any flaws in the design itself.

[sabre2922]

Im all for the gameplay. dont get me wrong I do luv great technology pushing graphics I.E. Splinter Cell etc but Ive never been a complete graphics whore.

I have no problem with any so-called "old" games as long as they are at the very least GOOD games.
case in point Ive been addicted to the original Legend of Zelda on EMU for the last couple weeks wich is STILL my favorite game ever.

I do have to admit that many of the 32-bit/64-bit games DID NOT AGE WELL AT ALL as far as the graphics go @_@.
While I still enjoy many of my of the old 3-D PSone games like MGS it is difficult for me to go back to the very grainy graphics at times.
The N64 has aged terribly unfortunately becasue I was soo impressed with this system the first time I played Mario64 and Zelda:OOT not that those games look all that bad even now but to me the MAJORITY of the N64s library wich is about 90% 3-D have aged terrribly, the same goes for many of the PSones 3-D library lots of slowdown low resolution etc make many of the 32/64-bit games painfull to go back to now :(
Has anyone played the original Tomb Raider on Saturn lately? ugh its almost unbearable x_x and I love the Saturn moslty because of its 2-D capabilities and games like Panzer Dragoon Saga showed that the Saturn was actually very capable of some nice 3-D.

Anyway my point is that I have no problem whatsoever going back to NES or especially many of the still beautiful 2-D 16-bit games then playing a PS2 or Dreamcast game it just isnt the same when going back to play the 32/64-bit 3-D games even if they are great games overall.

and by the way GTA3 is still one of my favorite games and it looks fine to me as does about 95% of any of the current-gen games they all look good to great as far as Im concerned but hey I didnt start out on PSone like many younger gamers did I started out on an Atari2600 :embarrassed:
You see thats what REALLY urks me the wrong way is when ANYONE complains about current-gen graphics I just dont get it :roll: but hey that just goes to show im an old folgey or f&^%$ LOL

[maxlords]

Yeah, I don't play anything pre-NES outside of arcade machines either. But that's what I grew up with. I rarely touch the NES and LOVE everything from SNES/Genny on. Just what you're raised with.

[Iron Draggon]

I literally grew up with video games, but I just can't get into anything before the 16BIT era for very long anymore. 16BIT is my sweet spot for sure, and everything after that is equally enjoyable, but everything before that is just too lame and archaic to me now. (Except maybe certain NES or SMS games!)

But it's not just the Ancient School graphics that look too outdated to me now, it's also the ridiculous easiness of the gameplay that's not much fun. I guess 8BIT is just too simplistic for my modern tastes to continue enjoying it the same way I used to. Simple graphics + simple gameplay = simply boring.

However, I realize that alot of people feel that way about 16BIT now, and I'm fully aware that someday my love for 16BIT will be as difficult for other gamers to fathom as it is for me to fathom how other gamers can still get into 8BIT. So it does seem to have alot to do with the prime of your youth.

We seem to hold onto alot more than just the games themselves when we get nostalgic about our personal golden eras, so there will always be people who prefer retro gaming over modern gaming, just as there will always be people who prefer modern gaming over retro gaming. But today's modern gamers are most likely to become tomorrow's retro gamers at some point. You just get to a point where keeping up with the latest trends becomes far less desirable than wallowing in the glory days of your youth, and that's when you become a retro gamer and discover which era is your sweet spot. I don't think there's any harm in it. Everyone has a different sweet spot, and everything older or newer than that just doesn't do it for them, that's all.

[Aussie2B]

Wha, easy gameplay? O_o Are we playing the same 8-bit games here? Prior to the 16-bit generation, games were WAY harder. Or do you mean simplistic gameplay, as in simple controls or not a lot of different moves and such? A lot of 16-bit games were just as simple. Just look at Sonic the Hedgehog. :P

[Push Upstairs]

We seem to hold onto alot more than just the games themselves when we get nostalgic about our personal golden eras, so there will always be people who prefer retro gaming over modern gaming, just as there will always be people who prefer modern gaming over retro gaming. But today's modern gamers are most likely to become tomorrow's retro gamers at some point. You just get to a point where keeping up with the latest trends becomes far less desirable than wallowing in the glory days of your youth, and that's when you become a retro gamer and discover which era is your sweet spot. I don't think there's any harm in it. Everyone has a different sweet spot, and everything older or newer than that just doesn't do it for them, that's all.

I can agree with whats being said here.

I don't collect or play games from anything Pre-NES (although i have a soft spot for some 2600 games)...its not really because of simple graphics or gameplay...i have no nostalgic memories of playing anything other than the 2600.

The love for things older stems from either wishing to experience games from the past or, as Iron Dragon said, "wallowing in the glory days". Alot of why we love the things we do is from nostalgia and having "been there" to experience what these systems had to offer in thier day.

But we all know that after the "video game fad" crumbles and the dust settles, the only ones left standing are going to be the ones we really care.

[Aussie2B]

Well, I find that a lot of my favorites aren't games that I experienced when I was younger, but I think having a few that you did enjoy back in the day makes a great entry point. If you got a reason to pick up a console, then you'll likely pick up other games as you acquire the few that you remember. Then you discover new favorites in the process. If you've never experienced ANY game for a particular console, then you don't have much of a reason track the system down in the first place. That's why there are a lot of systems I'd like to eventually own, but since I have no urgency to play any game in particular, I'm not about to go and buy them on eBay immediately for high prices. I may as well wait to stumble across them somewhere really cheap. :P