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View Full Version : The demise of Nintendo is almost upon us!



Gemini-Phoenix
04-19-2005, 09:23 AM
This is a continuation of my other thread - Is the games industry getting just a little too crowded? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58722)


I forsee something going down - And I think it may just be Nintendo this time!


The DS is unnecessary. It is a half-arsed attempt to advance, but doesn't seem to have actually made it...

In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. Nintendo could have made a replacement for the GBA, but they didn't. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't. What we have is just an ugly mess - One which won't last in my eyes.


Until now, Nintendo have virtually ruled the handheld market since atari and Sega pulled out some time ago. Many have tried to take their crown, and many have failed - Until now, and it may just look like they will be mopping up their own blood.

They should have focused their efforts on making either a successor to the GBA or a dedicated next gen console. Not the DS.


And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...


History has taught us that when there are too many consoles - One has to drop out... And seeing as how Nintendo seem to be faltering at the moment... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...

Drexel923
04-19-2005, 09:35 AM
1. The DS is the next logical step in handheld gaming as far as graphics and power go. If you look at the jump between handheld systems in the past they were always a generation behind (GBC 8-16 bit, GBA 16-32 bit, DS 32-64 bit). If Sony never released the PSP, no one would be complaining about the power of the DS as it follows the trend we were used to. Now granted the PSP is an amazingly powerful system, but if you look at the DS on its own merits (and stop trying to compare each other in every aspect), it's nothing to laugh at.

2. Come back when the PSP actually overtakes the DS in sales. I'm not saying it will or will not happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

3. Can we talk about something new for a change. We are oh so thankful that you brought up the Nintendo is doomed arguement once again. And we are happy that you will soon start a flame war thread between fanboys.

This is in no way saying Nintendo will survive or die, but can we stop trying to predict the future and just enjoy the games while we have them.

gamegirl79
04-19-2005, 09:37 AM
Your post is filled with more opinion than fact - do you have numbers and/or facts to back up your claim that "the demise of Nintendo is upon us"?

It's pretty obvious that you're not a DS fan, and that's completely fine. But just because you doesn't like it doesn't mean that it will fail and subsequently cause the entire downfall of Nintendo.

I'm actually kind of glad to see that the DS isn't trying to be a clone of the PSP. Variety is good and it's still a little to early to say the DS is dead. Only time will tell...

Avatard
04-19-2005, 09:41 AM
Oh please, I bet people said the same thing when Virtual Boy hit the market. And I think the general population would agree NDS>VB. I enjoy me NDS, its an oddity for sure, but I like it, its not run-of-the-mill system filled with the latest greatest ZOMG processor that can make tons of polygons fly at me, it doesn't need to be. Now if only they would get some good games to the market, thats their biggest downfall. And the fact that it isn't a true IP device. Despite its weaknesses I own one and I plan on buying the new game boy advance 2 when it comes out.

Saying Nintendo will go down cause of the DS is like saying Coca-Cola will go down cause they made Coke 2, or cause Pepsi came out with a new Sprite clone. Maybe one day they will take the road of Sega, but that day is not today or the next 5 years.

That said, the market is indeed flooded with hardware, but its also saturated with consumers. Can it support 3 systems along with their handhelds? Thats anyones guess. We will have to see. Personally I think it can, I don't know many people wth just one of the XBox/GCN/PS2 combos.

Don't we have a billion other threads like this already? Its getting tiresome.

anagrama
04-19-2005, 09:48 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

fishsandwich
04-19-2005, 09:52 AM
ZZZ (x1000 but removed /flack)

<burps, farts, then starts to snore again>

-_-

captain nintendo
04-19-2005, 10:09 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:


I agree..... Keep your opinions to yourself unless they have

have hard facts behind them. I am not saying this because I

have nintendo in my user name either. Have any hard facts ? then post them.

Xantan the Foul
04-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Yeah... I don't see Nintendo going away anytime soon.

Though I honestly see Sony dominating the next console generation, it's too hard to tell for sure yet how anybody is going to do.

calthaer
04-19-2005, 10:25 AM
Doesn't Nintendo have a few billion dollars in the bank still? What is all this nonsense?

To be quite honest, they will only ever "lose" when they lose money. As long as they make enough to cover R&D and production for games + hardware and then make a profit on top of that, they will not go out of the business - regardless of how big or small their market share is. People seem to forget that it's entirely possible for a company to be profitable with even a lesser share of the market, if they play their cards right.

Conversely, it is also possible to LOSE money while controlling the majority of the market.

So, like everyone else, I ask - where's the proof that Nintendo is losing money? I don't see their stock taking any significant dives.

Nez
04-19-2005, 10:32 AM
Bah Nintendo will never get out of the game. They're not trying to hard to be number one they just want to be like any rational corp and make tons of freaking money. I'm shure all the current systems are giving Nintendo plenty of cash for each unit sold, unlike say the xbox or the PSP.

Nintendo will never go away, not as long as I' am around I'm shure.

Teo
04-19-2005, 10:34 AM
I can use the ds as a brick, if someone talks smack on it I throw it said persons head and most likely it still works perfectly. LOL

Gemini-Phoenix
04-19-2005, 10:36 AM
Had the DS actually been developed as a true next gen machine (Like the PSP) then it would have been a lot better I feel.

Instead, we have something with two tiny screens and a slot for old games (But not old-old games)


The PSP is the next evolution in handheld gaming in my eyes. And no way can Nintendo keep up with that unless they pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat fairly soon.


Ok - The DS is powerful enough to be impressive, but they are just falling back into the hole they have been trying to climb out of all thse years...


The only way forward for Nintendo now is to come up with something aimed more at adults. Kids are quite content playing games which don't look too good, but at the end of the day, it's the older generation they should be looking towards seeing as they are the ones who will be buying these products.

The GameBoy will live on, but the PSP will kill the DS off forcing Nintendo to either give up or go back to the drawing board...

Cmosfm
04-19-2005, 10:52 AM
You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

Avatard
04-19-2005, 10:57 AM
They stated all along an new rabit is already in the hat, and has been for some time. They have always billed the DS as a "third pillar". Why do people always translate "third" as "main"? Why do people think its equivalent to Square's "Final Fantasy". Its experimental, like the VB, but this time they didn't fall on their face, or ruin eye sight. LOL

I don't know what kids you've seen, but every little kid I've met are impressed by latest greatest graphics and fads, reguardless of gameplay. Thats why all these games like the incredibles, and the hulk even get sold.

Bah, I'm replying to a troll. I think I'm the loser.

Kamino
04-19-2005, 11:02 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

GrayFox
04-19-2005, 11:03 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

mattmcgrath25
04-19-2005, 11:06 AM
<gauntlet narrator> "Someone fed the troll" </gauntlet narrator>

Avatard
04-19-2005, 11:09 AM
Silly me, thinking this post was even serious LOL

{void main()
int postnum;
bool dumbtopic;}

postnum ++;
dumbtopic = 1;
end;

sabre2922
04-19-2005, 11:10 AM
Ill go ahead with a quick reply.

Nintendo isnt going anywhere YET we will see after the first few years of Revolution.

I luv Nintendo but we all know and see what is happening with the big N lately wether some of us here want to admit it or not. ;)

Everywhere I go I see Gamecubes collecting dust and PS2s constantly sold out and Xboxs sell at a decent rate.
It is VERY difficult to find Gamecube games used OR new in my area it just isnt popular here at all.
I mean all you have to do is go to Gamefaqs and look at the planned release list to see that the GC is nearing its end.
There are fewer and fewer mutli-ports every month that are released on Gamecube PS2 and Xbox seems to be the norm for the majority of game publishers and developers.


I hate to see all these things happening to Nintendo but its THERE right in front of everyones eyes no matter how devoted you may be to the big N and they only have themselves to blame for most of the lack of third party support.
If they do have all this hard cash in the bank (wich im sure they do at least for now) then why didnt they go to developers and publishers like Rockstar and break out the $$$$ to get games like GTA3,Vice City or even SA ported over to the cube? or any other popular franchises that arent owned by Sony or Microsoft?

Hey MONEY TALKS man and Nintendo has been alienating themselves for years now. We all know this started with the N64 and has only gotten worse since wether it was the decision to stay with cartridge with the 64 or go with mini-DVD on the Gamecube you could also point to the fact that they dont go out of their way to appease or attract 3rd party publishers on a regular basis.

The writing is on the wall and if Nintendo doesnt change their buisness practices and alienating ways they will SOMEDAY travel the road that SEGA built and will be forced to become a 3rd party developer.

Ernster
04-19-2005, 11:10 AM
Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.

As far as DS goes, its an awesome handheld and will have some of the greatest games of all time once its run its course, just like the PSP will. Its a waste of time comparing them.

rbudrick
04-19-2005, 11:11 AM
Shit, I thought somebody was posting some kind of new news article. Don't piss me off by making me jump like that! LOL

-Rob

Nez
04-19-2005, 11:11 AM
Damn it why do I even respond to Phoenixs' threds. Youd think I'd learn by now.

starchildskiss78
04-19-2005, 11:22 AM
I agree with a lot of the posts so far. The bottom line is that Nintendo has had a solid reputation through the years with coming up with some innovative things. You also must remember that Nintendo, like any other corporation, is out to make money. Anyone who says differently is fooling themselves. Personally I liked the fact that the Nintendo 64 is cartridge based. I've purchased used games before from the usual places (Game Stop, EB Games) and the disc based ones usually look like someone wiped their ass with them. At least with a cartridge I usually don't have to worry about severe issues like that. My only gripe is taking the top label off their cartridges. Makes it MUCH harder to store the things and know what the hell you've got! I've put my two cents in...I'm done. :)

Oh....btw...don't feed the fanboys!

Avatard
04-19-2005, 11:32 AM
http://images.urbandictionary.com/view/large/4228.jpg

jslithy
04-19-2005, 11:32 AM
Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.

dreams
04-19-2005, 11:47 AM
You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!

Kamino
04-19-2005, 11:51 AM
Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.

Flack
04-19-2005, 11:55 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

-50 meseta for blatant +1'ing.

Cobra Commander
04-19-2005, 11:57 AM
Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.
The Legend of Zelda? Maybe?? I know it is for me.

Gemini-Phoenix
04-19-2005, 11:57 AM
No, this isn't any sort of a troll. It is a continuation of my other thread, but I decided to cut the other one down as this was more specifically directed at Nintendo and to make it a little easier to read.


I would imagine Zelda is probably the most anticipated game of 2005...

TheRedEye
04-19-2005, 11:58 AM
Show us your stock analyst credentials or shut the fuck up. You know nothing.

Kamino
04-19-2005, 12:01 PM
Yes, a company more than a century old, which has the best-selling portable devices on the market, the most anticipated game of 2005, and a promise of a revolutionary new console is going to go under. Sure, whatever. At least Sega showed signs of leaving the console market.
Ok, enlighten me as to what the most anticipated game of 2005 is.
The Legend of Zelda? Maybe?? I know it is for me.
Yeah, for me, the most anticipated game of 05 is already out. Doom 3 xbox. GTA PSP is a close 2nd, and soon to come.
Admittedly, I'm barely on top of this year's releases, because I was so concentrated on building a retrocollection in 2004. (tripled to quadrupled it in a year. ) I may have to get back into the loop soon...but fortunately for me, theres plenty of cheap used current generation crap to buy ;)

Avatard
04-19-2005, 12:12 PM
Wow, you must be really dissapointed this year. LOL

ubersaurus
04-19-2005, 12:44 PM
The only way forward for Nintendo now is to come up with something aimed more at adults. Kids are quite content playing games which don't look too good, but at the end of the day, it's the older generation they should be looking towards seeing as they are the ones who will be buying these products.


Dude, Nintendo could have a lineup of Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear Solid, and fucking MANHUNT, and people would still claim they're "kiddy".

I've met many college students and women who love their current lineup, and I don't know too many adults who give a shit if has Mario jumping around or the Master Chief.

Avatard
04-19-2005, 01:04 PM
Yea, that mantra about kiddy games gets old. Come up with something on your own.

rpepper9
04-19-2005, 01:15 PM
I love "kiddie games" and I'm almost 30!

GrayFox
04-19-2005, 01:28 PM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Thanks

~Kamino

Ditto, and +1

:)

-50 meseta for blatant +1'ing.

Kinda joking and all, but hey, there goes all my meseta! Huzzah!

I guess I have to type out that he's a troll and all, instead of just ditto-ing the good Kamino.

The journey for more meseta continues ;)

lendelin
04-19-2005, 02:16 PM
If Sony never released the PSP, no one would be complaining about the power of the DS as it follows the trend we were used to.

That is exactly the problem for N. Sony DID release the PSP.

This is like saying CNN would do much better and no-one would complain about it if FoxNews weren't around.

Captain Wrong
04-19-2005, 02:34 PM
Here, I'll save everyone the trouble of reading this thread or of even responding in it.

Step 1:
Insert completely baseless and provocative speculation. The more outlandish the merrier.


Step 2:
Create overly emotional and equally provocative rebuttal. Take it personally and don't skimp on the word count!


Step 3:
Repeat steps 1 & 2 over open flames until thread reaches a frothy boil.

Step 4:
Lock thread.

Step 5:
Wait a few days and start process again.

GarrettCRW
04-19-2005, 02:36 PM
Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

goatdan
04-19-2005, 02:37 PM
The DS is not an upgrade... until the Palm software comes out for it. When that happens, it all makes sense as to exactly what Nintendo was trying to do -- corner a market that has always had high-end stuff with low power. My Pocket PC cost $600.00 not too long ago and drains its battery when playing NES games in about forty minutes. Had the DS been released with the Palm OS on it like Nintendo originally said, it would've KICKED Dell's ass. Not just would it be more useful as a Pocket PC, but it would've been so much more powerful and cheaper.

Oh yes, but the PSP is supposed to be Nintendo's main competitor on that front. You know, as much as it is sort of (since the DS is also another game system, after all), it isn't if Nintendo ever brings out the Palm OS.

On top of that, Nintendo has tons of money in the bank. If they started losing money on any of their endeavors, they would drop them like a bad habit -- didn't _exactly_ that happen with the Virtual Boy? Nintendo didn't stick around with it trying to prove it was incredible. They cut their losses. If Nintendo was in such serious jeopardy because the DS was doing so badly for them, they would drop it. As it stands, it has sold millions of consoles, has made Nintendo tons of money and has a lot of interesting software coming out for it soon. Hardly a failure.

So yes, I fed the troll and I'm sorry... but I am really sick of listening to uninformed people take shots at the DS because of some perceived PSP "success." The PSP is successful (although not as successful as Sony expected it to be) but it hasn't wiped the DS off the face of the planet. And it won't, unless Nintendo decides it isn't worth it to them to keep it on the market.

Captain Wrong
04-19-2005, 02:39 PM
Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

If this was Off Topic, I would have.

I swear these threads are like watching train wrecks happen.

GarrettCRW
04-19-2005, 02:41 PM
Step 4:
Lock thread.

You forgot to do step 4. ;)

If this was Off Topic, I would have.

I swear these threads are like watching train wrecks happen.

Maybe you guys should start moving these threads to the Pub. ;)

Avatard
04-19-2005, 02:45 PM
Oh, I can derail it, don't you worry about that....

So, who here are cheetos fans?

THATinkjar
04-19-2005, 03:15 PM
I always consider the DS an interim product from Nintendo to take whatever market it could away from the PSP. I think Nintendo had intended for their next handheld to be THE successor to the GBA. They've already made it clear they will be doing the GBA 2 soon enough. I suspect we will see that next year.

Nintendo can get stronger, but they need to stop relying on such few key titles. As much as I always want a mario game on each platform, I don't want them to keep relying on them.

Zubiac666
04-19-2005, 03:43 PM
OmGZzZ!!111!!!Eleven!!11!!Elf!
ThA dS eEEz thA DooOmdD
aNd tHa PeeSp is daH aLL/\/\1GhTy !!111!!
x_x

Another week another "nintendo goes down"-thread
*yawns*

Nature Boy
04-19-2005, 03:43 PM
... haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this.

If this was actually true there would be all of zero extra posts in here. You know, like there are for the threads that people *actually* don't like...

Nintendo *is* doomed. I love my DS, but I wish I had a PSP instead. Sony knows how to market it self about a zillion times better than Nintendo ever will.

LAGO
04-19-2005, 04:12 PM
[quote="Nature Boy" Sony knows how to market it self about a zillion times better than Nintendo ever will.[/quote]

that's not entirely true.

Algol
04-19-2005, 04:38 PM
DS is going down, Nintendo is doomed, Sony owns our souls, We must sacrifice our firstborn to Ken Kuratagi...

Whatever. Can we never have one of these threads again? :sob:

Algol
04-19-2005, 04:39 PM
Double post. :monkey:

xaer0knight
04-19-2005, 04:55 PM
I don't know what kids you've seen, but every little kid I've met are impressed by latest greatest graphics and fads, reguardless of gameplay. Thats why all these games like the incredibles, and the hulk even get sold.

Bah, I'm replying to a troll. I think I'm the loser.



Dude, Nintendo could have a lineup of Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, Metal Gear Solid, and fucking MANHUNT, and people would still claim they're "kiddy".

I've met many college students and women who love their current lineup, and I don't know too many adults who give a shit if has Mario jumping around or the Master Chief.

I would agree +a million. kids especially like the Hype. Because one "cool" person says that the PS2 or any system is "cool" they will flock to be one of the "Cool ones" (mostly the youner gen, High and Middle Schools). It happen with the NES, Genesis, and TurboGrafx Days and its even bigger now.

Mitch_Naz
04-19-2005, 05:35 PM
This thread is none sense, call me a fanboy right away but lets look at the facts from a general point of view. First, Nintendo is following the path as it SHOULD in terms of generation (GBC 8-16,GBA 32,DS 64) in the handheld division. But the PSP comes out with around 128 bit and skips an entire gen and adds everything it can possible can to kill nintendos portable market (If it were to bring a portable playstation ONE that would be a different story)- and you still think nintendo is dumb and their going under. If nintendo were to release a high end Game boy with graphics as the PSP, you would probably think nintendo is just trying to save themselves and still bash it for doing everything it can to save itself. These kind of threads or getting old, lets just all wait for the software and see whom will win this war.

Second, stop hating on the DS for it not being a PSP;
Its like Nintendo just launched the N64 and Sony came out of no where with the PS2 (dvds ? umds ?) - its clear whos got better hardware but what about the software, as of now the psp got the upper hand. But isnt it intresting how the DS "N64" is still holding its own against something like the PSP "PS2" ???

Finally, dont get me wrong, I like the PSP - im getting one next week **hopefully**

YoshiM
04-19-2005, 06:04 PM
I'll feed the troll....till it bursts...mwahahahahaa!

Anyway, the parent obviously has a liking for the PSP thanks to the positive description they gave. The DS, as someone mentioned, is third pillar. Even though I think it's a conspiracy to see how well it takes off and then crowning it the next GameBoy, we have to go with what the big N says. Besides, it's still pretty dang new so don't discount it yet. And no I don't have one, so I'm not speaking out of bias.

As for the "kiddy" image...I think people who label Nintendo as such should just grow up. I have yet to find someone who can give me an honest and decent description on what makes a system "kiddy" or not. When *I* think kiddy, I think games only 7 year-olds and younger can handle. Dora the Explorer, Sesame Street, etc....that's kiddy as it's geared toward that age. Nintendo's games, while containing cartoon characters, are geared toward everyone, kinda like an episode of Bugs Bunny which knows no age.

lendelin
04-19-2005, 06:54 PM
As for the "kiddy" image...I think people who label Nintendo as such should just grow up. I have yet to find someone who can give me an honest and decent description on what makes a system "kiddy" or not. When *I* think kiddy, I think games only 7 year-olds and younger can handle. Dora the Explorer, Sesame Street, etc....that's kiddy as it's geared toward that age. Nintendo's games, while containing cartoon characters, are geared toward everyone, kinda like an episode of Bugs Bunny which knows no age.

Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

The DS lost already the race before it really began. I said it back then, and I say it again, the dual screen -- sold as "innovation" - - was a desperate reaction of N which realized that they cannot compete with the PSP. They looked for another market within the game industry, not for the traditional handheld market. Less power sold by PR as emphasizing gameplay and innovation mean in reality less sales. Gameplay and innovation is not restricted to the underpowered systems, they will come automatically to the most established hardware, and in doubt the more powerful system will win.

In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N. Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

Kilik Kurosawa
04-19-2005, 06:56 PM
finally!!! i was waiting for confirmation Nintendo was doomed before i started collecting GC titles x_x

lendelin
04-19-2005, 07:15 PM
Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.

Maybe on planet Saturn, not on planet Earth.


As far as DS goes, its an awesome handheld and will have some of the greatest games of all time once its run its course, just like the PSP will. Its a waste of time comparing them.

Consumers already compare them. Not a lot of them own two handhelds...and even if they do, they buy one handhead much later than the first one; which means, you enter the cycle of hardware sold and games made for the system; not good for the 'second' system.

Graham Mitchell
04-19-2005, 07:27 PM
WORDS ABOUT NINTENDO GETTING OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM GAMING MARKET.
Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

Why is that sad? Some great, real innovation could come out of it.

We've been having this great conversation in the Off-Topic area about punk rock. Punk, as a movement started in the late 70s because people were tired of the big money, low-substance music that was being overproduced and crammed down people's throats. Most people, who weren't really die hard music fans, were still going for Yes and the Eagles, but other people wanted something more, something that came from the heart. So they started making their OWN music, and saying to hell with how much money they had behind it, or how polished it sounded. It ended up changing the world of music entirely for the better.

If Nintendo drops out of the mainstream market, which is saturated with overly-violent, low-innovation first person shooters and GTA clones, maybe we'll get something DIFFERENT for once. Maybe we'll get something BETTER. Maybe all the high-end technology is taking too much of developers time and effort to deal with coming up from anything new, and that's why we now have sequel after mindless sequel, and the games never get any better (assuming their predecessors were any good in the first place).

Personally, I want something new from the ground up, and I already feel that the DS is giving it to me. Even if Yoshi's Touch and Go is really just Gumshoe revisited, bear in mind that Gumshoe hasn't been revisited for 20 years, and DESERVES to be expanded upon and fully realized. What the hell am I gonna get with a PSP? The same old console games that I'm dissatisfied with? What are they gonna cram on those 1.8 gigabit discs? More of the stupid CG that's ruined gaming to begin with? More hacky-BS voice acting?

I may sound like a fanboy here, but I actually think Sony has the best of the 128-bit consoles. However, I really do see the potential for something truly new and interesting coming from the big N in a couple years. And penis-sizing over system specifications isn't going to change my mind with regards to this issue. The DS, by design and not by processing capabilities, does stuff that the PSP doesn't, and I applaud Nintendo for stepping away from all the hype and nonsense.

Thanks for reading my opinion. Flame away.

Push Upstairs
04-19-2005, 07:45 PM
First i must say i am starting to dislike these "NINTENDO IS DOOMED" threads as well.

And now for something other than that nonsense.



I don't really understand why people applaud the DS and its palm accessories, saying they are happy it can do so much more than play games, yet sit and lament other game systems for offering something else "extra".

ozyr
04-19-2005, 09:10 PM
You've been here for a long time man, haven't you noticed YET that people do not like topics like this. All you're doing is drawing in the flames.

And this topic has been discussed 5 MILLION times before, use the search function and bump an old one if you feel the need to get "fanboy" on us.

I opt for this topic to be locked.

I totally agree here. THis has been done and done and done. Give it a break. There are other topics to discuss... :hmm:

kainemaxwell
04-19-2005, 10:30 PM
How many times we gotta beat this topic to death?

badinsults
04-19-2005, 10:44 PM
Sony and Microsoft are going to die because I said they would.


Yes, original poster, that is what you said, with just a few more words. I still find it puzzling how people suck the nipple of a particular game company.

ozyr
04-19-2005, 10:49 PM
They are all going to die, and the Phantom system will take over! LOL

Time to lock this darn thing into a dark corner of DP!

XxMe2NiKxX
04-19-2005, 10:54 PM
Nintendo currently has the most profitable console division of the three primary developers. I see no end in sight. Nintendo is free to struggle with lacking third-party support for as long as they want, because they'll keep on making money and that's not going to change for a long time.

Legend of Zelda currently the most wanted game. That game is going to sell like a bitch when it comes out, and will probably sell some gamecube's with it.

CartCollector
04-19-2005, 10:57 PM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050404.jpg
Bad fanbaby.
EDIT: Oh yeah, copyright VGCats.com. (http://www.vgcats.com) Have to put credit where it's due.

YoshiM
04-19-2005, 11:07 PM
Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't have issues, I'm just saying that the "kiddy" label is blatantly incorrect. If anything the real taint it has is that people tend to buy first and maybe second party titles over third party. Of course I'm not including the technical issues (like the smaller storage medium).


The DS lost already the race before it really began. I said it back then, and I say it again, the dual screen -- sold as "innovation" - - was a desperate reaction of N which realized that they cannot compete with the PSP. They looked for another market within the game industry, not for the traditional handheld market. Less power sold by PR as emphasizing gameplay and innovation mean in reality less sales. Gameplay and innovation is not restricted to the underpowered systems, they will come automatically to the most established hardware, and in doubt the more powerful system will win.

Historically, how has this stopped Nintendo? We had Game Gear, Atari Lynx and the NEC TurboExpress when Nintendo was peddlin' the green screen. Who won? Later on we get systems like the NGPC and Nintendo didn't flinch. Granted any game system with the name "Sony" and "Playstation" imprinted on it gets the masses in a slobbering mess of ecstacy but let's break it down a bit. Nintendo's biggest clinchers are the franchise titles and the price point. $150 and access to one's existing GBA library (if they have one) and a decent amount of play time I think is an easier pill to swallow for the masses.


In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N. Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

Lose handheld gamers? Only if Nintendo doesn't deliver the software (which they kinda tripped up on early). The PSP right now feels more like an investment due to the high cost of entry as a handheld compared to the nominal price of a DS. Plus we have to remember a lot of people consider their handheld game system their secondary source of video game entertainment. From what I've seen in conversations throughout the web I've seen statements that say something like "Why would I spend $250 on a handheld?" However if Sony pushes the fact that the PSP is a multimedia machine (wow, shades of 3DO) and if the UMD (or whatever) movies start to take off (I guess some companies are bundling them in DVDs) and people actually buy into that, we might see some scales tipping. Though why anyone would buy UMDs when for less money they could get a portable DVD player with a bigger LCD screen and be able to use their existing library is beyond me.

As for non-handheld gamers: what is the PSP going to offer that the GBA hasn't to change their minds? The biggest complaint (which I shared for a while until I got an SP myself) was "why play on a small screen when I can play games on a TV?" For a person who wasn't on the go or didn't have a lot of downtime away from home the idea of a portable game system didn't appeal. I can't see how this crowd would be swayed.



All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

Using the computer industry as an example, we've seen Apple continue to survive with hardly any wide retail availability. They are a niche. Many graphic artists and musicians swear by Apple products. If Apple can survive in a world of sub $200 computers, why can't Nintendo survive in a world dominated by Sony with Microsoft behind them (US wise, not necessarily globally)? Times are a-changin', so why can't the video game industry?

felix
04-20-2005, 03:15 AM
im not going to argue or continue this endless flamewar, but I will throw in my 2 cents.

Nintendo has the poster-boys of videogames.. Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda... everybody knows who they are. My girlfriend thinks that every videogame has Mario in it.. I mean, who here hasnt had a girlfriend who wanted to "play mario" on your ps2 or sega master system?

As long as they have that, they will stay in the business. In fact, I think that if Nintendo pulls out all the stops and makes a system as great as say the SNES with games to match (lets just say another GREAT mario game and a new Zelda that gets back to the basics instead of trys to re-invent rpg gaming) then Sony and Microsoft have their work cut out for them.

goatdan
04-20-2005, 12:16 PM
In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N.

I'm curious, how are you basing the 50/50 split? If you're saying that within this year, the DS and PSP will sell about equal numbers, okay... but then your argument about how Nintendo can't get anything right isn't so solid, as that sounds like a pretty solid sales rate. If you mean that it will be 50/50 with the GBA and DS vs the PSP, then I still might believe it... but if you think that the PSP will have as many installed users as the GBA market currently does by the end of the year, I think you're out of your mind.

Besides that...


Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

So you're saying that the people who will buy the PSP are "mature gamers" who are "so far non-handheld gamers." If that's the fact, then why is Nintendo in trouble? If there was a room of 50 people and Nintendo sold DSes to 25 but the other 25 wouldn't have bought a DS no matter what, if 20 of those people buy a PSP, then Nintendo isn't losing market share.

Yes, the PSP could cut into their market share, but if it expands the market a lot, it could be a benefit for Nintendo's next round of software. I for one am not a handheld gamer. The newest handheld I own is a Game Boy Color, which I just picked up two months ago. Maybe if I end up with a PSP though, I'll love it and be more open to the next system from Nintendo.


It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

There is only one problem with your argument -- that is that the "traditional" market simply isn't there any more. The "traditional" consoles of the current crop were the Dreamcast and the GameCube. The Dreamcast went the way of the dodo thanks to poor management and design on Sega's part. The GameCube hasn't done so hot because it simply hasn't had many high-profile games released for it.

The non-traditional systems are the PS2 and the Xbox for combining video games with other things and making it work. The PS2 is also a DVD player, which greatly boosted its sales in Japan when it was released. The Xbox wants to do a bit of everything, and hell... that's why I bought an Xbox. Non-traditional systems are what is currently winning, and Nintendo has decided to go for "innovation" in the revolution, which may end up being way too far off the non-traditional path or may put them in a great place.


I don't really understand why people applaud the DS and its palm accessories, saying they are happy it can do so much more than play games, yet sit and lament other game systems for offering something else "extra".

I don't know who is applauding the DS's Palm accessories, because it doesn't have any of that yet. It was made with the idea of having Palm stuff on it, but we have yet to see any of that, supposedly because Nintendo is worried people could run Nintendo emulators on the DS. Nintendo needs to release a full Palm OS for the DS and I will be the first one to applaud them for releasing a product for $150 that is easily better than ones that people pay $500+ for. Overnight, they'll cannibalize the PDA market for themselves, which is a usually non-traditional market.

But Nintendo doesn't have that stuff yet. And every day they don't have it is another day that it is really stupid they didn't build that stuff in from the beginning.

And I don't think too many people are complaining that other game systems have "extra" features. I think that the MP3 playing capability of the PSP is a really good idea for instance. I think that people have a right to complain about stupid stuff though that doesn't work -- the UMD movies for $25.00 when you can't play them on anything but a PSP is pretty strange. Why people would want to use them beyond DVDs is beyond me. But if it was included for free, there is no harm in it too me.

So... Nintendo has made errors... a lot of them. But they aren't out of the game yet. They are just trying to do things a little differently. When they start releasing a consoles that only lose money, that's when I'll start worrying. Until then, they have three consoles out that make them a lot of money and they move enough products to profit. I think they're doing fine, and bringing out the coffin is a little premature.

sabre2922
04-20-2005, 02:11 PM
Umm I just have to reply to Goatdans comment on the Dreamcasts design? what the? O_O

The DC was and still is one of the most easy to develop for Home consoles ever made. It had a great design as far as hardware AND appearance.
Sega did not want to make another Saturn that had a dual CPU set up that made it difficult for developers to tap its full potential even Segas own in house development teams never touched upon it until the last year of its existence with games like Panzer Dragoon Saga.

I do agree that Sega had terrible marketing for the DC of course that goes to the fact that they were already in the red when the DC was released.

goatdan
04-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Umm I just have to reply to Goatdans comment on the Dreamcasts design? what the? O_O

Like it or not, the fact is that the Dreamcast was a "traditional" console that was made to only play games. (Music CD playback doesn't count.) At a time when consumers wanted their game system to do more and more, Sega delivered a game system that only did one thing -- play games. Had the Dreamcast played DVDs, I would bet that it would've sold millions more in Japan alone and we wouldn't be sitting here talking about how quickly it died.

The other part of the Dreamcast's design that was really poorly thought through was the MIL-CD backdoor that they left in. An easy-to-program-for console is one thing, an easy-to-pirate-for console is another. While I can't hate them for it, (and Feet of Fury (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372001), Inhabitants (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372010) and Maqiupai (http://www.goatstore.com/info.php?id=372020) wouldn't have been possible without it,) the inclusion and explotation of this feature was something that really helped speed the demise of the system.

Don't get me wrong -- I easily love the Dreamcast more than any console ever produced before it and probably any future one. I have an entire US collection. I am well on my way to a complete PAL collection too. And I've published three games so far and have plans for at least another dozen that I'm working on.

I love the Dreamcast, but I can see the problems that it had very clearly... just like I can see the problems that Nintendo has some serious issues on their hands right now. But I also know that Sega was bleeding red ink while Nintendo is far into the green. Different situations...

lendelin
04-21-2005, 07:35 PM
Historically, how has this stopped Nintendo? We had Game Gear, Atari Lynx and the NEC TurboExpress when Nintendo was peddlin' the green screen. Who won? Later on we get systems like the NGPC and Nintendo didn't flinch. Granted any game system with the name "Sony" and "Playstation" imprinted on it gets the masses in a slobbering mess of ecstacy but let's break it down a bit. Nintendo's biggest clinchers are the franchise titles and the price point. $150 and access to one's existing GBA library (if they have one) and a decent amount of play time I think is an easier pill to swallow for the masses.

The PSP isn't the Game Gear or Turboexpress. At the launch of the GB until the mid 90s, N was the market leader, a household name, had a positive image, and connections with third party developers, and they got almost automatically the top games. Everything that Sony has today. Sony has the market position, the franchises, the image, the distribution power and infrastructure, and its game division has the big bucks to spend money. The current Sony isn't was Sega or Atari were.

Looking at the lineup of games for both systems, everything spells success for the PSP, and 'niche' for the DS. It is not the hyped multi-media abilities of the PSP which will bring success, it is the software and the power of the system. Ns franchises except for Metroid are more obstacles than big boosters for hardware sales. Show me a kid or teenager who goes nuts over a new Super Mario or Zelda handheld game. Friends of mine have an 11-year-old who has the GB and GBA, and his parents are strict with money. He saves up now for buying a PSP, the DS is not even an issue for him. Neither the price tag nor backward compatibility will save the DS.



Lose handheld gamers? Only if Nintendo doesn't deliver the software (which they kinda tripped up on early)...

That is exactly what happened, and which I predicted before launch. The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS. More importantly, the second screen and missing analog control spells doom for developers who just want to port existing games to the DS. It will hurt the game library big time.


As for non-handheld gamers: what is the PSP going to offer that the GBA hasn't to change their minds? The biggest complaint (which I shared for a while until I got an SP myself) was "why play on a small screen when I can play games on a TV?" For a person who wasn't on the go or didn't have a lot of downtime away from home the idea of a portable game system didn't appeal. I can't see how this crowd would be swayed.

GAMES! Games will be offered to teenage non-handheld gamers in order to change their minds. (I didn't assume that 40 year old businessmen will flock to the PSP, although even an old non-handheld-fart like me is thinking about getting a PSP later on) Mature games, 'cool' looking games with much better graphics, franchises which are top sellers already on the big screen....and upcoming release lists show that the PSP will get its exclusive RPGs too.

The PSP is maturing handheld gaming. The GBA kept handheld gaming in a time lock for a very long time. Handheld gaming was graphically and from a gameplay aspect ten years behind the times. You got literally old SNES games on your GBA, and the successor of the GBA has neither the power nor the games to keep up with the PSP.


Using the computer industry as an example, we've seen Apple continue to survive with hardly any wide retail availability. They are a niche. Many graphic artists and musicians swear by Apple products. If Apple can survive in a world of sub $200 computers, why can't Nintendo survive in a world dominated by Sony with Microsoft behind them (US wise, not necessarily globally)? Times are a-changin', so why can't the video game industry?

The Mac is a niche indeed, and so will be N. But you can struggle and survive in the computer industry, but not in the game industry. The game industry is driven by the sheer number of software sales to a much higher degree than the computer industry. The software/hardware cycle drives the industry. If there is a 'niche'-share of hardware out there in the constantly expanding game industry, it curtails the game offering, reduces your marketshares bit by bit, you won’t make profits with games, and you will face bankruptcy very soon (unless you’re going out of the traditional console business and look for another part of the game industry, which N will do with the next ‘console.’ )

You'll end up with red numbers, and N isn't Sega or MS. Sega could take the red numbers for a long time because it was basically privately sponsored by its president, and MS can take the red numbers over some time because of its financial resources. Even MS will go out of the game business in five years if the next Xbox doesn't increase marketshares and profits.

N opted to go out in this situation as long as they are financially sound. They had one healthy leg, the handheld leg, and they will be limping on this leg too now with the PSP as a competitor.

There is no doubt in my mind that the decision to go out of the traditional console business was made months ago behind closed doors. What we see for months now in interviews by Nintendo officials is the careful PR-preparation to sell this decision euphemistically to the public. For me, there is no other way to interpret statements and business decisions by N.

GarrettCRW
04-21-2005, 07:59 PM
The Mac is a niche indeed, and so will be N. But you can struggle and survive in the computer industry, but not in the game industry. The game industry is driven by the sheer number of software sales to a much higher degree than the computer industry.

The video game industry, like most everything in the business world, is driven by profit. And, shock of shocks, Nintendo is still making money. The Game Boy is a veritable cash cow, and the DS has barely even gotten started (and has still outsold the PS, as far as I know). The Gamecube has been produced at a profit for Nintendo for quite some time, as well. The company is doing fine, which is a bit different from Sony, which is surviving largely because of the movie studio and the video game division. (It goes wihout saying that Microsoft, barring a drastic shift in antritrust law, has the resources to do whatever the hell it wants right now.) If Nintendo wants to do something different with the Revolution and DS, then I say more power to them. The game industry sorely needs something new, because its sorely lacking in the innovation department (plus the tons of crap games out there will eventually come back to bite the industry in the ass). Predicting that Nintendo, a healthy corporation (unlike Sega), is going to "die" or fold or drop console development is outright silly.

lendelin
04-21-2005, 08:12 PM
In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N.

I'm curious, how are you basing the 50/50 split? If you're saying that within this year, the DS and PSP will sell about equal numbers, okay... but then your argument about how Nintendo can't get anything right isn't so solid, as that sounds like a pretty solid sales rate. If you mean that it will be 50/50 with the GBA and DS vs the PSP, then I still might believe it... but if you think that the PSP will have as many installed users as the GBA market currently does by the end of the year, I think you're out of your mind.

I meant the marketshare between the DS and PSP, excluding of course the GBA. Let's face it, the GBA will be dead soon anyway.


So you're saying that the people who will buy the PSP are "mature gamers" who are "so far non-handheld gamers." If that's the fact, then why is Nintendo in trouble? If there was a room of 50 people and Nintendo sold DSes to 25 but the other 25 wouldn't have bought a DS no matter what, if 20 of those people buy a PSP, then Nintendo isn't losing market share.

Yes, the PSP could cut into their market share, but if it expands the market a lot, it could be a benefit for Nintendo's next round of software. I for one am not a handheld gamer. The newest handheld I own is a Game Boy Color, which I just picked up two months ago. Maybe if I end up with a PSP though, I'll love it and be more open to the next system from Nintendo.

I pointed out that it is not a zero sum game. Expansion on one side doesn't necessarily mean the reduction of the other side in the same amount. Sony will expand the demographics and win some of the so far non-handheld-gamers, BUT it will also severely cut into customers of N as exclusive PSP owners. In other words: Sony wioll get the best of two worlds: the potential of new customers, and the potential to get traditional handheld gamers.


There is only one problem with your argument -- that is that the "traditional" market simply isn't there any more. The "traditional" consoles of the current crop were the Dreamcast and the GameCube. The Dreamcast went the way of the dodo thanks to poor management and design on Sega's part. The GameCube hasn't done so hot because it simply hasn't had many high-profile games released for it.

The non-traditional systems are the PS2 and the Xbox for combining video games with other things and making it work. The PS2 is also a DVD player, which greatly boosted its sales in Japan when it was released. The Xbox wants to do a bit of everything, and hell... that's why I bought an Xbox.

I undertsand your valid reasoning, but it is not a hitting counterargument, rather the misunderstanding about terms. I meant with the traditional console business the three major current console systems, regardless of their hyped multi-media abilities. The latter are anyway not important in the long run for the current systems, it is the software and other things. (the Xbox couldn't catch-up with the PS2 despite its DVD playing abilities and superior hardware specs) In ten years from now, the multi-media aspect will play a big role, that is anyway the long-term goal of Sony and MS.


Non-traditional systems are what is currently winning, and Nintendo has decided to go for "innovation" in the revolution, which may end up being way too far off the non-traditional path or may put them in a great place.


"innovation" with the "Revolution" is PR-talk by N. I believe it when I see it. The Ds according to N is also a revolutionary system full of innovative capabilities, and I was mistrustful about the PR talk back then, and I'm even more mistrustful after we've seen the little revolutionary machine.

I don't know how this new 'console' system will look like and play like and what it will be. It won't be a competitor for the next gen systems for sure according to N officials. Less power, a new control scheme, shorter games, connectivity in a mysterious way, but it won't be a "traditional" console like the PS3 or the next Xbox or the GC.

SuperNES
04-21-2005, 08:29 PM
i dunno about the rest of you, but i'm not buying either! my GBASP will have to do. i'm sick of everything going 3D, i really like the GBA better because it just feels like a handheld. (graphics-wise) and if you go around starting "company X is doomed" threads, then you are automatically a 'tard.


I LIKE TACOS! X_x

suppafly
04-21-2005, 09:44 PM
I have given much thought to writing this post. I feel like most people are angrey at Nintendo, and might feel frustrated by them.

Just to set the record straight, I used to be a nintendo fan. I loved my nes, my snes, and even a little bit of N64. However they DID take bad decisions (like the media on the n64), started losing 3rd party support and started using their main characters too much (mario 64, mario party, mario golf, mario tennis, mario kart, etc).

That is what made be stop buying their games. Cant anyone see that theyre selling the same game over and over, with slightly improved graphics only?. I dont mean to bash Nintendo and praise Sony, but this is my honest opinion.

thanks

FurinkanianFrood
04-22-2005, 06:53 AM
Ernster said:
Nintendo make the most profit on videogames so there not going anywhere in alteast 15 years.


Maybe on planet Saturn, not on planet Earth.


I am on Saturn. Best system ever. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Nintendo is still one of the top game publishers in Japan. Their games still sell well enough that they are NOT IN FINANCIAL TURMOIL.

Nintendo is not dying.

Find a brain, make a brain, bugger off from here, whatever...

Just STOP THIS BULL@#$% NOW.

This is an incredibly dumb topic, and I will keep yelling every time one of these threads appears because this is supposed to be a message board for gamers, not FUD spewing hype monkeys.

I feel like I woke up in one of those troll doll games damnit!

I trash Sony because I hate crappy games.

Where does all this Nintendo hate come from?



That is what made be stop buying their games. Cant anyone see that theyre selling the same game over and over, with slightly improved graphics only?. I dont mean to bash Nintendo and praise Sony, but this is my honest opinion.


1. Better that the games are the same than complete garbage. Who isn't selling the same games.

2. If you ever bother to look not everything is the same. And since when is the PS2 not loaded with nothing but half-hearted rehashes anyway? The interesting stuff on PS2 doesn't even sell!

3. If that's your honest opinion, don't take any of this as a personal attack. It's not meant to be. It's an attack on the general trendmongering that is screwing things up. I used to actually like playstation before I started collecting JP Saturn, PCE, etc. and realized how the DFP had brainwashed everybody into thinking gameplay wasn't going to hell in a handbasket.

4. I am a Sega fanboy, not a Nintendo one BTW, one of the real ones who doesn't buy PS2 rehash @#$%.

FurinkanianFrood
04-22-2005, 07:00 AM
Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

lendelin
04-22-2005, 07:11 AM
Accidental double post. High blood pressure?

Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

Graham Mitchell
04-22-2005, 07:14 AM
The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.

a) It DOES have analog control. It uses the sliding tool. It may take a while to get used to, but it works. (Were you a pro with the analog stick when N64 came out? New forms of control always take time to learn, but I think so many people are expecting instant gratification that they quickly dismiss the sliding too. They shouldn't, because, in Mario 64, anyway, it works.).

b) Anyone saying that the second screen is useless hasn't played any DS games other than Mario 64 (in which it really is pretty much useless).

Mr. Driller DS uses it to simulate the long, stretching playfield of the arcade game, and I'm constantly looking at it to make sure stuff isn't going to fall on me.

Warioware has used it creatively not only in cinemas (and believe me, they are cool with the 2 screens) but to elongate the playfield vertically. Several of the minigames do this, and it's really kind of cool.

By far the best use of the second screen that I've seen has been in Yoshi's Touch and Go. The playfield is extended into the upper screen, but you can't interact with anything up there because it's not touch sensitive. This makes it a puzzle; you have to do things on the bottom screen to allow you to interact with the top screen--ie, knock down enemies or items--while keeping an eye on the bottom screen. It makes for a cool effect, and it's an interesting way to play that I haven't really seen too much before.

Also, keep in mind, it's basically the same thing as having the extended horizontal screen when you think about it. The total surface area of the 2 screens is either equivalent, or greater than that of the PSP, and that's one of the things the developers use it for.

FurinkanianFrood
04-22-2005, 07:19 AM
Reading your post, I strongly suspect it is high blood pressure.

I ain't arguing, but I am rather sick of this Nintendo is dying crap.

I just get a wee bit carried away you see....

I mean what I say, I just don't mean to be so frigging mean about it.

I'm a freakin' poet. Or not.

Bring some real evidence that Nintendo is dying and I'll be all ears.

Nintendo's sales figures don't point to imminent doom guys.

Money talks. None of the console manufacturers are anywhere near insolvent right now.

Anyone who says the N isn't Novative (bad pun, whoops!) hasn't played Warioware.

I had trouble dragging myself away from a beat up demo unit the other day.....

I would almost buy a DS just for Warioware.



The software is not impressive, the second screen isn't put to good use, the second screen is already regarded as an appendix, and the missing analog control isn't suitable for todays games as seen with Super Mario DS.


Gameplay is impressive. The PSP will always lack titles in this respect. What is impressive about PSP games anyhow?

Funky 3D graphics, eh? What a load....

I admit being intrigued by Lumines, but even as much as I respect and admire Mizuguchi the game is on an overpriced system with naff controls and little in the way of decent games.

hydr0x
04-22-2005, 07:50 AM
Are you practicing "The Art of Trolling" again by any chance? :roll:

obviously... but you gotta give him this, he's damn good at it

ozyr
04-22-2005, 09:50 AM
I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!! :hmm:

suppafly
04-22-2005, 09:52 AM
I can't believe this stupid thread is still going on. People, stop the Nintendo is dead argument and get on with something else!!!!!!!!! :hmm:

I think we´re reading people´s thoughts here.

If you are sensitive to this kind of discussions, please dont visit the thread. Its as easy as that.

goatdan
04-22-2005, 12:48 PM
I meant the marketshare between the DS and PSP, excluding of course the GBA. Let's face it, the GBA will be dead soon anyway.

Well, it all depends how you look at the GBA I guess. It still seems to be having a lot of hardware coming out, and it seems that people are still buying it. If Nintendo is serious about this third pillar business model they keep touting (which they could be if they ever brought out the Palm features, as I've mentioned in the past), then the GBA is around to stay at least a little while longer.


I pointed out that it is not a zero sum game. Expansion on one side doesn't necessarily mean the reduction of the other side in the same amount. Sony will expand the demographics and win some of the so far non-handheld-gamers, BUT it will also severely cut into customers of N as exclusive PSP owners. In other words: Sony wioll get the best of two worlds: the potential of new customers, and the potential to get traditional handheld gamers.

Well, you're stating that the only place where there could be expansion of the market here is from Sony. I disagree. If / when Nintendo ever brings out the Palm OS for the DS, suddenly Nintendo has a true killer app for a completely different market than anyone has ever had before. I've said this before -- the two screen make up for a PDA would be perfect. PDAs, because of how they have been tradionally made, are currently coming in packages with half the power of the DS for two to four times the cost. I have one. I use it all the time to keep track of meetings, to do lists and so on. I wouldn't mind upgrading to a dual-screened, twice-as-powerful with a MUCH longer battery life NDS if it actually had Palm.

I've ranted about that time and time again though. As of right now, it is a moot point and the NDS isn't appealing to a broad market yet. Bring that in, and suddenly Nintendo is going places that Sony can't with the PSP.


I undertsand your valid reasoning, but it is not a hitting counterargument, rather the misunderstanding about terms. I meant with the traditional console business the three major current console systems, regardless of their hyped multi-media abilities. The latter are anyway not important in the long run for the current systems, it is the software and other things. (the Xbox couldn't catch-up with the PS2 despite its DVD playing abilities and superior hardware specs) In ten years from now, the multi-media aspect will play a big role, that is anyway the long-term goal of Sony and MS.

The DVD playing aspect was a HUGE reason that the PS2 caught on in Japan as quickly as it did. The PS2 was one of the cheapest DVD players in the country, so people were buying it to watch DVDs. How many weeks was "The Matrix (movie)" the top selling item that people in Japan bought with their new PS2 systems? Then Nintendo comes along and says that their system won't have the DVD drive but will just do games for nearly the same price.

Japanese consumers said, "Okay... DVD player and game system for one price or just game system for a slightly lesser price?" And thus the GCN didn't sell as well.

The Xbox can't be talked about in Japanese terms because it didn't come out over there until the PS2 had a great grip on the market, and it didn't have games most Japanese gamers were too interested in. In America however, the Xbox is doing great and is selling better than the GameCube... And it isn't just because of Halo. It is also because of the great Live set up that was made and all of the other features that you can get with it. The ability to rip your own music and play it back during games is something that a lot of people really like.

The multimedia functions are very important to a system's success now. And the sooner Nintendo realizes that, the better off they will be.

And the only way that long-term multimedia goal can be acheived by both Sony or Microsoft is through the software. Yes, the software is ultimately one of the most important parts of selling a console... but you can't discount the true extras that are included nowadays. In fact, the reason the Xbox is so full of them is that Microsoft wants the consumer to start demanding more and more from their systems, and Microsoft wants to be there to provide it. Even with the upgrades they have available for the Xbox right now, they are starting to do that.


"innovation" with the "Revolution" is PR-talk by N. I believe it when I see it. The Ds according to N is also a revolutionary system full of innovative capabilities, and I was mistrustful about the PR talk back then, and I'm even more mistrustful after we've seen the little revolutionary machine.

If Nintendo had come through with the Palm OS the way they had intended, I think that it would be more clear exactly how and why the NDS is an innovative system.


I don't know how this new 'console' system will look like and play like and what it will be. It won't be a competitor for the next gen systems for sure according to N officials. Less power, a new control scheme, shorter games, connectivity in a mysterious way, but it won't be a "traditional" console like the PS3 or the next Xbox or the GC.

I wouldn't say that just because a system isn't the most powerful means that it will lose, and I don't get why you keep saying (in this post and others) that now power is such a big part of it.

The PS2 is vastly underpowered compared to the Xbox, and has sold what... 10 times as many consoles?

The NES was a lot less powerful than the other consoles of the time.

The PS1 was less powerful than the N64.

The Genesis and SNES were less powerful than the Jaguar or 3DO.

And the name on the box that you buy really doesn't matter that much. Atari wasn't in dire straights when they started production on the Lynx, and it only cost about $60.00 more than a GameBoy. The GameBoy got a bunch of what people on here would argue were "kiddie" games like Mario. The Lynx got a bunch of arcade ports and some puzzle games and things that, at least at the beginning, were more complex and "aimed for adults."

But the Lynx didn't get Tetris. The GameBoy did. Had Atari actually had those rights, who knows what we would all be playing right now. The "battle" comes down to software, as you've mentioned -- not hardware specs, and not "innovation", but what people want to play.

Will people want to play the Nintendo Revolution? It depends on what Nintendo is selling us on. If it is too far off the wall, no one will care. But I'm sure that there are some innovative things out there that would be very neat for them to do in games, just like if the damn NDS was actually a PDA that would've been pretty innovative and would've been the first handheld I would've wanted. Nintendo could deliver that. Also, from your other post:


You'll end up with red numbers, and N isn't Sega or MS. Sega could take the red numbers for a long time because it was basically privately sponsored by its president, and MS can take the red numbers over some time because of its financial resources. Even MS will go out of the game business in five years if the next Xbox doesn't increase marketshares and profits.

N opted to go out in this situation as long as they are financially sound. They had one healthy leg, the handheld leg, and they will be limping on this leg too now with the PSP as a competitor.

Sega couldn't take the red numbers, which is why they left the hardware industry. They lost money on the 32X, Saturn and then Dreamcast. After the Saturn, there was a huge internal debate if they were going to release the Dreamcast or not because of the financial risk that it would be taking.

Microsoft can and will continue to spend money because as I've pointed out time and time again, they want to be the box that goes between your TV and the "entertainment world." Microsoft believes that in a few years, there will be some sort of box that you will be able to download movies onto to watch, record TV on, play games on, surf the net on and so on... and every time you download a movie or something you'll need to pay a fee, part of which will go to the Interface.

Well, Microsoft already owns the vast majority of computer desktops out there... how can they expand their market? By becoming this box on the TV. Suddenly, any time you want to be entertained you'll be paying Microsoft a nickel or something... and Microsoft will be making a LOT more money. Bill Gates is a visionary, and is willing to spend billions of dollars to get Microsoft in the position to be that company. They won't be leaving any time soon, and it definitely isn't about profits in the next five years. If it was, the current Xbox wouldn't have half the stuff it does in it.

The Nintendo opted to try the 'niche' market because they are financially sound. Nintendo, even selling what they are in the way of the Cube is still managing to make millions from it. Microsoft may be out-selling them, but Nintendo is far out-earning them.

The thing that people seem to be missing with the whole "console wars" business that is going on right now is that the market is MUCH bigger than it ever has been in the past. Because of that, a system that is in third place might not be selling 50,000 consoles a year, but selling 1,000,000 consoles a year. With that many sales, there is definitely room for three consoles in the market. And if Nintendo rolls out something that truly is innovative and that people want to play... something that they can't play on another system, Nintendo will have a decent size share of the market.

Nintendo isn't "down and out." Nintendo isn't "going out of business." Nintendo has simply made a couple bad moves in the last two generations that have firmly implanted them in position #3 in the home market right now. So Nintendo is trying something new that could be a continuation of their bad moves (but which still has the potential to make them money) or it could be a really good move.

lendelin
04-22-2005, 01:10 PM
To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

LAGO
04-22-2005, 01:29 PM
After carefully reading over this thread i've come to a conclusion that, I believe we can all agree on! I know it's a miracle but I think i've done it.

And that conclusion is ... insert drum roll ...

Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to coem out for the DS.

LOL

goatdan
04-22-2005, 01:35 PM
To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

I completely agree with you actually. I really enjoy conversations like this more than just showing up and seeing that other people founds some excellent games :)


Goatdan really wants a Palm OS to come out for the DS.

Damn right! I'll admit this much - I like Nintendo as a company. Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console, and I hate the fact that I see all this potential for the DS to be cool and be something that I actually want, but it isn't yet. I wasted $150 on an N64 because Nintendo promised me things that they didn't deliver. Because Nintendo didn't deliver the software to actually make their product into something truly innovative and something that could be a "third pillar," I ended up with something else instead of holding onto hope that Nintendo would ever bring out the Palm OS.

I want to like the DS, really... I do. But without the extra features being a little more usefull... blah.

sabre2922
04-22-2005, 04:26 PM
I agree with Lendelin and Goatdan I enjoy a good discussion and debate especially when it concerns my favorite hobby wich is VIDEOGAMES.

If someone doesnt like the topic or think its "beating a dead horse" then take the time to create a NEW equally interesting topic and dont bother reading the posts that you may think is a waste of time.

In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl :evil:

I hate censorship and I cannot stand those (even though it is thankfully a very select few) who get on this board and start calling every and any topic that doesnt interest them or seems to "offend" them in some way "RETARDED" or THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE LOCKED :angry:

One of the few reasons a topic should be or may be locked is if its basically a double post of a previous topic and we all sometimes make that mistake I know that I do so I started using the search on the board on a more regular basis.

Archenemy
04-22-2005, 11:02 PM
Until someone takes it personal, I don't see any reason to lock up these particular kind of threads.

Is Nintendo doomed?
Who will lead the next Generation?
Who sells more?

Personally- I don't give a dime. I am more on the retro edge and I just play the games I like. Incidentally I have to purchase the game console in order to play those games.

I used to be a big Nintendo boy. Now I am stuck with the Saturn. Call me grampa if you like, I just don't find any real pleasure in the 3D games nowadays.

My two cents? I hardly like the DS. I just got one, it takes a while to get used to it. As a matter of fact, I still haven't got used to it.

I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? @_@

I am stuck with my Nomad as well. IMHO the best portable game console ever. (Schedule? Movie player? 3D Graphics? My old Laptop can do that much better and still has a bigger screen :evil: )

So: May the PSP be whatever you want to make it. Yup. I once wanted one, simply because I am (as I can deduct from another post) that kind of strange "odd-man-out" guy who collects portables and has almost all portable stuff (except of the Game.com that just doesn't catch my attention- yet) but a PSP definatly is NOT on my priority Top Ten. I will sooner or later have one, but not today my friends :D

I find a little hard to read all the opinions. I respect all of them but I don't share some of them.
You want to start a Flamewar? Go ahead, Make my day. I don't find any pleasure in the sight of two suppossely grown up and mature users tearing each other appart, but I cannot stop it either. I am not a moderator :P
You want to close it because you don't like the topic? Simply: read the title, don't you like it, DON'T YOU READ IT EINSTEIN :smash:

Anyway I am getting lost in all this nonsense. I just want to sleep -_-

Remember:
The believer does not need proofs. The esceptical will never get enough.

FurinkanianFrood
04-23-2005, 06:27 AM
I just find the idea that Nintendo is dying far fetched for the time being.

If you enjoy debating it that's cool. Sorry I flew off the handle. I don't have any desire to see these threads locked, I just can't figure out why they show up.

Everything is speculation about the Rev. All signs point to Nintendo's continued existence.

Dan explained it all beautifully.

I guess I am just sick of hearing about the death of N because.

1. Some people outside DP actually use it as an excuse to favor N's competitors products (I've run into these people mind you.)
2. I have never heard a rational argument that points to an imminent crisis for Nintendo.

There are legitimate discussions to be had about the future of Nintendo. All of the hyperbole about how they are dying is what ticks me off.

When will their market share stop falling is a valid question indeed.

It's been said further up, but let's not forget about the new Zelda. That will sell. Like hell if it won't. Zelda + Backwards compatible Revolution seems like an interesting combo don't you think? And they did say it was back-comp.

There is a limit to how far N will push things I think.

They aren't housed in a mental institution last itme I checked. Then again, they may be unwilling to give up on their dreams of innovation, no matter how mad they seem.

If that's the case I will just hate their competitors even more for killing off their dreams, and mine.

I'm proud to be a fanboy. I am not a N fanboy, as I said.

I am a fan of game companies and a hater of companies that destroy them.

Nintendo may die someday, but they will put up much more of a fight then some peopl suggest.

There is hope. Why do people try to crush it?

If I didn't feel the same fears as the guy who started this thread I wouldn't be so ticked off, would I?

Anti-Nintendo propaganda/FUD sucks. Theres no way around that.

FurinkanianFrood
04-23-2005, 06:56 AM
Sorry about the double, it wouldn't let me edit, and I had a few more things to say.

If you look at the posts above my first one in this thread, there is a load of BS.

These are some of the things that prompted the response I gave, along with explanation.

1. The DS has already lost. Speculation treated as fact. (read the post above mine carefully mind you, they aren't as blunt as mine). Go PalmOS!!
2. Foregone conclusion. Someone said that N's death isn't speculation and that it is a foregone conclusion. WTF.
3. Anyone can see that they keep making the same games over and over, eh? Who doesn't? (I know there are good answers but that's a rhetorical question, and those type devs have little influence on mainstream sales) It wasn't Nintendo that truly pushed the industry in that direction IMO.

Truly innovative companies get the shaft year after year. Why shouldn't I be upset when people contribute to this?

Technosoft made Herzog Zwei before all the companies that use RTS games as personal mintsmade theirs. What did they get other than jack shit.

People are entitled to their opinions, but I have the right to get irritated when I feel that they are trolling/contributing to the lack of appreciation for games made for gamers.

Only in very rare cases do I actually want any threads etc. locked.

In closing, I get upset because I don't like seeing trolls spread FUD all over these boards.

I don't censor trolls. I just feed them till they (I?) explode.



Having said that, the N64 was the biggest waste of money I ever spent on a console


You have a good point there Dan. To be honest I refused to touch the thing until it was like $20 used somewhere.

I only own 3 N64 games to this day. (Mario 64, Zelda:OOT, and Paper Mario for those curious)

And yet people accuse the Jag of having no games. Compared to some systems it has a lot IMO.

The SMS was better than the NES IMO, and the SNES is my least favorite system of that gen (I like Genny and PCE better). Not that those were bad systems.

I don't have many Gamecube games. I was annoyed by the pacing of Wind Waker, Mario Sunshine, etc. I had trouble coming to terms with Metroid in 3D. None of them are bad games by any stretch of the imagination though.

Some need to look harder at the alternative before they harp on Nintendo.

Even if the DS fails it doesn't necessarily mean the PSP is gold.

I like speculation. I don't like "we're all freakin' doomed."

And as for your concerns about the DS Dan, I'm just wondering which games you have tried so far. I haven't bought one myself. I like Warioware but I'm not buying the system for it.

Over time things may improve quite a bit.

The PSP hasn't exactly set the US market on fire yet. Here's hoping for some nice games in the pipeline.

If portables are going to be as expensive as Sony wnats them to be it's time to get the NGPC, Lynx etc. I've
always wanted.



Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.


I am hysterical. However, please notice that you speculate about the Revolution and then say it isn't speculation. Vague hints are not facts.

Don't assume market share is the main issue. Money is. When I see evidence N is going insolvent I'll stop complaining about this.

And if I live in a dreamworld, at least I have enough hope to dream of a world where gaming isn't being murdered by Sony. Why are there so many people into the retro stuff soem may ask?

Gaming for gamers is dying. The great systems of the past are immortal.

If the PS3 defies my expectations and Sony does not make a fatal error, you may be correct about the N.

The Genny was a huge success, and the Saturn (sadly) bombed in the US.

Too many assumption are being made.

If things keep going down this path there will be a reckoning. Another crash is possible.

Everyone thinks I'm barking mad, but Sony's hubris could crush the industry some day.



Now I am stuck with the Saturn


I'm really stuck on it myself. Best system ever IMHO.



I In fact I may keep this one going to piss of the "end it now" ppl

Unlike some end it now people, I didn't really mean for the topic to end. Just end the BS about imminence (of N's demise, not theologically speaking) being a foregone conclusion. I won't let this topic die either bwahahaha!! I like your style actually.....

This topic can live until the matter is settled, which if I have my way will be never.

It's like the freakin' Highlanda dude. Nintendo is fo eva. A kind of magic or a prince of the universe even....

portnoyd
04-23-2005, 10:48 AM
To the annoying 'end-it-now' posters:

1. If you find an entire thread not interesting or annoying, don't read it. That's what I do. If you know all the reasoning appearing in a thread and you don't get new information, just skip it.

2. The vehement reaction of those who interpret this thread as a flamewar, fanboy-babble, and scream 'stop it' shows that the topic is interesting in particular for these posters.

3. Some of the posts are hysterical reality-ignoring fanboy babble and wishful thinking, others are not. I don't think that Goatdan, YoshiM and others are fanboys, and neither am I. I'm neither a fan nor a boy.

4. The topic was often discussed, but not too often by me. The reason is simple: The topic burns on our nails.

5. The diminishing market shares of N, the trouble of the GC and the DS is worthwhile to discuss. N is the last household name in the game industry, and so are its franchises. N wrote game history, it is a significant part of game history, and the prospect that this company isn't competitive anymore is a BIG topic.

While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?

This thread is not awesome.

dave

MegaDrive20XX
04-23-2005, 03:18 PM
What does this thread teach us?

1. Never, oh never. Talk shit about Nintendo to a pack of hungry wolves who may end up naming their first born child after a Nintendo character probably.

2. Especially at DP.

3. You will end up with verbal scars for the rest of your experience here at DP.

And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits. Sega didn't die, they just got some freakin smarts and knew when the shit was too deep to handle. That's why they were called "The Rodney Dangerfield" of the game industry, we get no respect! Yet went out peacefully and quietly...with a "nice" debt behind it...which has been sloved for some time now.

FurinkanianFrood
04-24-2005, 12:37 AM
[insert arguments against Stop this crap now posts]


While your reasoning is sound, and the arguments valid, this thread was made under idiot GameFAQ-like pretenses. It has upgraded to an intelligent discussion, but the origins of the thread reek of 'OMFG TEH DOOM' and 'OMFG TEH TEH +1'. And hasn't this topic already been discussed ad nauseum?


Which is why I said it was crap (the origins and such). Goatdan did a nice job of saving the thread IMO. There are things to discuss that are relevant.... However, all the arguments have been made.

In the end, it just depends on what happens in the future.

I do worry about such things obviously, but no one knows what will happen. It's just that I worry about how console companies success/lack thereof impacts game development.

Of course, the real problem is that mainstream consumers have awful taste in games. I just can't shake the pattern (which to me looks plain as day) that appears to connect Sony systems with substandard games and even more with a distinct lack of truly great ones IMO.

I think it's really a matter of preferring a level of simplicity and elegance that the mainstream no longer values.

It's the continuation of a slow degeneration that has been inevitable since the crash, even if this could not be fully foreseen.
Games just become less and less like they once were. There is no TEH DOOM to make a TEH DOO about of course.

Newer Nintendo systems are still good, but as games move in certain directions they lack something intangible that bothers me. Even if I can't find a flaw in a newer game, something is there mocking me.

As much as I love the DC, DC games don't have the feel of Saturn games.

The main issue I have probably just stems from my preference for 2D games. Also, I much prefer 3D games with simpler, more intuitive controls. I don't like having to use too many buttons (there are some cases where it works, but not all that often) and I don't like using 2 analog sticks, ever (unless there is a damn good reason, and that doesn't save anything on PS/PS2 because those sticks are horrible IMO, whether one or both are used).



And this is coming from me, a die-hard Sega fan. Sega knew when it call it quits.


They had no other way out of course. I still buy Sega games regularly as long as they are on a system worth owning.

I think ya know what I mean by that. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.....
I still need to buy Spikeout from somewhere, ack.....



This thread is not awesome.


What are you talking about? it pwns d00d

This thread needs to stop. Let's let it die and start a new one for real discussion about N's future if we so desire, kay?

The way a thread starts determines it's future. "OMFG Nintnedoo is croking" just leads to a thread that will keep getting turned back into a mess any time someone decides they want it to revert back to how it started.

Don't make me get started with the downward spiral (media convergence/increased costs passed on to consumer/lack of viable development/ consumer disalllusionment/etc.) leading to second crash crackpot theory here.

Beware the crash of '06!! Bwah.. forget it.

This thread isn't even worth parodying anymore. (It never was.... but I'm really tired and bored)

Amy Rose
04-24-2005, 01:31 AM
I've never bothered posting in one of these threads before, and I haven't read it the whole way through either, because I have one of those new fangled 5 second attention spans. SO. Here is my 2 cents based on snippets of text that caught my eye.

1. Holy shit, there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys here.

2. the PSP and DS both do nothing for me right now, BUT how the shit can you judge systems so early on in their life? No games out currently interest me besides the Sega one and the Yoshi one, and those only because I've been a Sega and Yoshi fan for a long time now. Wait 6 months, then maybe, just maybe, you'll be justified in trashing the DS.

3. Whoever said the N64 was a waste of money/had a handful of good games... I agree. The only game I had for my N64 for over TWO YEARS was Zelda: OoT, once again an old franchise. Damn, I love that game. Later on I got Majora's Mask and Yoshi's Story.

4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

5. Now I know why I don't come into threads like this :P

Interesting point before submitting: I bought my brother a DS recently, and I have a strange feeling that I might have to buy him some GBA games to go with it instead of the great DS games I was hoping for. Sigh. I really wish Nintendo would stop disappointing me.

Ernster
04-24-2005, 02:46 AM
I cant believe there are people who think the N64 was a waste and only has a few good games.....have you played the bloody thing @_@

Push Upstairs
04-24-2005, 03:35 AM
4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok. Sure, the PS2 had a bad habit of straight-porting Dreamcast games in the beginning of its life, but shit, Parappa 2, Final Fantasy X (OMG I AM SORRY IT IS NOT ON THE SNES), Gitaroo Man, Kingdom Hearts, Ico, there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2, but they seem to get forgotten in the plethora of shit games and the five new Mario games that have come out this year and are rehashes of other Mario games (Tennis, Golf, Kart, Paper, etc etc etc). CHRIST. It's not hard to be openminded! Nintendo are not going to reward you for supporting them, Sony are not going to go away because you bag them out.

Although i have seen worse (much worse), this i believe to be true.

I always get the feeling its "okay" to bash Sony and Microsoft because people don't consider them REAL video game companies. Like somehow the big bad companies are taking some mild interest in the next "big money making business" and that at a moments notice are going to lose interest and quit.

Yet somehow because Nintendo has been making games for many years they are "cool" because they are the last game company and that somehow anything they crank out is "keepin' it real" for all the video gamers in the world.

Nintendo is just as likely to screw up just like everyone seems to pray MS and Sony will. :roll:

Algol
04-24-2005, 12:39 PM
I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.

spider-man
04-24-2005, 01:39 PM
I would like to also put my 2 cents in. Nintendo won't be going anywhere for a good number of years (at least 10). The problem is though, imo, (I don't know if someone already stated this) that most of the sales for games on nintendo systems are from nintendo games (similar to what happened to sega). Yes third party should make better games, but when they do and still get crapped on the buying public, what motivation is there to continue making games for that particular console (or not going the multi-console route). If I remember correctly, RE 4 completely bombed in the US (it should be interesting to see how the sales are for the ps2). The n64 and GC had strong starts, but slowly fizzled (game selection/shelf space in the stores (gives the perception to the buyer to avoid that "crappy" system)) out. If the DS doesn't come out with More games that really put the touchscreen to good use (such as: Ganbare Goemon: Toukai Douchuu), it may end up like the virtual boy. Also, the typical consumer wants better graphics rather than (unforunately) better innovation. With the release of the PSP and the upcoming next gen systems, this will hopefully increase nintendo's drive to succeed, which will in turn afftect other companies (thus making them more competitive=better games).

Archenemy
04-24-2005, 03:52 PM
I bought it as a "replacement" for my GBA, because I simply don't like the GBA SP but- SURPRISE!!! It only plays GBA titles!!! No GB/GBC compatibility? Gah!

If you want to play GBC that badly, I've noticed pretty cheap ones ($10-$15 I believe) at whoever sells that kinda stuff.Yeah, whatever, you didn't even quote me correctly :roll: Let's talk about someone who jumps into a thread and adds nothing to it in order to earn more meseta...

As far as I can remember, I NEVER EVER wrote I wanted a GBC. I do own all GB (Original GB, GB Pocket, Japanese GB Light, GBC, Pokemon GBC, GBA) and I NEVER said I wanted to play ONLY GBC- I said that the DS ONLY played GBA.

You have to either buy new glasses or learn to read and comprehend before posting- or even better, to refrain making such aggresive comments against sombody who was adding a point about the issue instead of jumping out of the blue and pointing something that does not have ANYTHING to do with the thread.

BTW PS2,XboX, don't hate them. I just don't like the mainstream games nowadays as someone just told before. x_x

I sense that the common mainstream games are just lacking the refinement of the old days- PLEASE NOTICE: I did say SENSE, I don't have any real basis to debate, so please save all of us of the harassment of trying to debate my poor point of view as it cannot be defended, ok? :hmm:

Promophile
04-24-2005, 07:32 PM
sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

ozyr
04-25-2005, 03:05 AM
sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

Welcome to Fanboy land (and I mean that toward all systems, not just Nintendo). I'm sick of this too - which is why I'm making a post here without sticking to the dumb subject.

lendelin
04-25-2005, 06:18 AM
sheesh do these same arguments have to pop up every week or two? I took a break for like two months and when i come back the same damn arguments are going on in new threads LOL .

Welcome to Fanboy land (and I mean that toward all systems, not just Nintendo). I'm sick of this too - which is why I'm making a post here without sticking to the dumb subject.

The topic isn't dumb, teenage fanboybabble coupled with ignoring reality is.

I know, I know, some guys really want N to survive, and it will...not as a major player in the traditional console business, but in a niche market in the game industry. How else could this statement by Iwata interpreted: "We don't try to compete with Sony and Microsoft for the next generation of consoles."

If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

Teo
04-25-2005, 07:22 AM
can't wait bring it on.

goatdan
04-25-2005, 12:35 PM
Come on people... do we really need all the crap? I'm not saying all of it is crap, but I've had enough of this "posting to get another 10 meseta" crap that seems to be going on. If all you're going to say is "Why should we talk about this?" then DON'T talk about it. It isn't worth the 10 meseta you get to say that.

Now, onwards...


And as for your concerns about the DS Dan, I'm just wondering which games you have tried so far. I haven't bought one myself. I like Warioware but I'm not buying the system for it.

I've played or watched someone play Feel the Magic, WarioWare, the Metroid demo, Ridge Racer, Tiger Woods, Mario 64, Polarium and at least one other I'm forgetting. So far...

Meh. Metroid looks awesome, but it isn't out yet. Polarium seems to be rather fun, but why the stupid gray color scheme?

The biggest problem that I have with the DS, as I've noted before, is that the obvious games for a system like it that should've been brought out the day it was released are still not out. How about a game of a bunch of card games like solitaire? How about a game like Jawbreaker? How about a new Tetris?

Nintendo has _really_ dropped the ball with the DS, and it isn't just because of the Palm OS business.


Over time things may improve quite a bit.

Over time, it will... but Nintendo needed to have these games out a few months ago, and we're still waiting. Finally, some games are coming out. If I'm not mistaken, the PSP has more titles already released for it. That's horrible.


The PSP hasn't exactly set the US market on fire yet. Here's hoping for some nice games in the pipeline.

The PSP above all else needs some games that are more of the portable type for it to really catch on. It is a great looking system with some interesting games, but right now I don't see much of a reason to get one... most of the games are the same sort you could play on the PS2, and aren't meant for short blips of gaming. Hopefully, that will change.

There are some really innovative titles out for it right now though. Mercury alone makes me want to purchase the system. But there isn't enough really truly A-list titles, and if Sony can get more out before Nintendo gets DS titles out, they'll be in the drivers seat.


1. Holy shit, there are a lot of Nintendo fanboys here.

There are an equal number of Sony fanboys here too. And Sega fanboys. It is just that it seems that Sony fanboys don't pipe up as loudly as Nintendo ones do.

Luckily, there are a lot of people on these boards though that are pretty much right down the middle... we just care about the games and / or are interested by the industry.


2. the PSP and DS both do nothing for me right now, BUT how the shit can you judge systems so early on in their life? (snip...) Wait 6 months, then maybe, just maybe, you'll be justified in trashing the DS.

The DS has had its chance already. A system that sells as many consoles at the DS did as quickly as it did needs to have something backing it up, and it doesn't. DS trashing is deserved at this stage, however saying that the DS isn't a player because the PSP PWNS ITZ AZZ is crazy. If two systems are released that have both sold 3 million consoles, it sounds like there are solid sales on both of them. Hell, 3 million consoles of anything sold is a success.

The DS is a success. It just doesn't have crap to back it up yet.


4. From reading posts on here, I've come to realise that it's cool and fun to rag on the PS2. Why? Because it has shit games, of course! ... ok.

The PS2 doesn't suck, and you'll never catch me saying that. If anything, the PS2 just appears that it has more crap because it has a lot more stuff coming out for it. As odd as this may sound, Nintendo would be in a much better place if they could get half the crap that comes out on the PS2 to come out on the GameCube too...


I cant believe there are people who think the N64 was a waste and only has a few good games.....have you played the bloody thing @_@

Yes. It wasn't a waste because of the games that came out for it, but because of the games that didn't come out for it that got me to buy the system in the first place. I'm still waiting for Earthbound 64.


I always get the feeling its "okay" to bash Sony and Microsoft because people don't consider them REAL video game companies. Like somehow the big bad companies are taking some mild interest in the next "big money making business" and that at a moments notice are going to lose interest and quit.

The difference, and why it is easier to bash Sony or Microsoft is that they don't have a game development history like Nintendo does. The big franchises for their systems are games they didn't make (Bungie, being a second party, is close but not quite...). Nintendo is intertwined with Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong and all that stuff so if they were to actually go out of business, those properties could potentially disappear. If either Microsoft or Sony leave the game, Halo and GTA will still come out for some system.

I'm not saying it is right to believe that (see: Sonic, present day), but that is where it comes from.

On the other hand, Sega doesn't get as quirky as when they had their own hardware. I don't see a second Seaman coming out any time soon. I don't see Sega taking the risks to get something noticed when they don't have hardware on the line. Then again, until the Revolution I really haven't seen Nintendo take many risks period, and who knows if that will come with the Revolution or not.


The problem is though, imo, (I don't know if someone already stated this) that most of the sales for games on nintendo systems are from nintendo games (similar to what happened to sega).

Exactly -- which is good for Nintendo but leaves third parties (and eventually, consumers) out in the cold.


If I remember correctly, RE 4 completely bombed in the US (it should be interesting to see how the sales are for the ps2).

Actually, that's not true. RE4 did really, really good for a GameCube title. As has also been noted before, Viewtiful Joe sold more copies on the GameCube than the PS2.

But the potential to sell more copies on the PS2 is definitely there.


The n64 and GC had strong starts, but slowly fizzled (game selection/shelf space in the stores (gives the perception to the buyer to avoid that "crappy" system)) out.

I wouldn't say the GameCube had a strong start. What killer app was out for it? Luigi's Mansion? The GameCube didn't start having anything decent for it for a while, which coupled with the fact that you were only buying it for games killed its start and led to the fizzling that we are continuing to witness now. Sony had the DVD player that saved them when the killer apps weren't ready for launch. The GameCube couldn't even play CDs.


If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

I definitely think it could spell the niche market, and if that's the case, that's fine... but just because a system isn't powerful doesn't mean it will lose. As I've pointed out, the less-powerful systems almost always win each round -- because they get games people want.

And... just to keep the tone of this thread the same...

+1

Howie6925
04-25-2005, 12:45 PM
http://images.urbandictionary.com/view/large/4228.jpg
LOL

lendelin
04-25-2005, 02:04 PM
If the president of the company says this, a lot of alarmbells should go on. Coupled with the the talk for about a year now about less powerful systems, graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes, this spells the intentional niche market for N from 2006 on.

I definitely think it could spell the niche market, and if that's the case, that's fine... but just because a system isn't powerful doesn't mean it will lose. As I've pointed out, the less-powerful systems almost always win each round -- because they get games people want.


Hardware specs aren't the only factors to decide the competition, I agree, otherwise the N64 would have won against the PS1, and there are lots of other examples.

This time it is different. Imagine the president of SCEA or Microsoft saying that they don't try to compete with Nintendo for the next console generation, and then referring to non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games based on changed leisure time activities (Internet); and all of this PR-talk is euphemistically presented in an "innovation" package.

These statements just don't make sense. The bestsellers of the GC aren't short, simple, and graphically inferior games: the two Metroid Primes, Resident Evil 4, Wind Waker, or the more recent Star Fox Assault or Baten Kaitos. The Mario Party series is a good seller, and this is the direction where N is heading, and will limit istelf for its franchises; and neither are bestsellers of the other consoles short and simple games with low development costs.

If a developer like EA with huge bestsellers like Madden and other developers with smash hits look at a clearly graphically inferior console (I regard todays 3 consoles at about the same level), do you think they will even care about getting the same game out for the next GC? Even the tentative name 'Revolution' spells a departure from the traditional consoles. (with a positive PR-spin, of course)

Graphics and hardware abilities are not shallow, they are part of the game-experience, they ARE gameplay; graphics are impressive, not only for the casual gamer, but for the frequent gamer as well, now and in the past. I think we were all impressed by the SNES graphics and sound when we watched and heard little Link walking in water and saw the raindrops; back then N announced and hyped the incredible graphics power of the new console, and they did so with every new console. This time they emphasize that power isn't important anymore. Gamers want supposedly something different.

We can see what gamers want looking at sales figures. I don't think RE4 was rejected by gamers because of its inferior graphics; and N didn't pay Capcom money for the exclusive rights for RE because they believed gamers want short and simple games and are not impressed by graphics.

The trend of successful games is in stark contrast what N announced and emphasized. It is in stark contrast to reality. They call it a 'revolution', I call it an economic necessity because they are not competitive anymore. They decided to go this route, and the prospect of success is dim at a time with rising development costs for games and more and more graphically impressive and complex games.

goatdan
04-25-2005, 02:36 PM
This time it is different. Imagine the president of SCEA or Microsoft saying that they don't try to compete with Nintendo for the next console generation, and then referring to non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games based on changed leisure time activities (Internet); and all of this PR-talk is euphemistically presented in an "innovation" package.

These statements just don't make sense. The bestsellers of the GC aren't short, simple, and graphically inferior games: the two Metroid Primes, Resident Evil 4, Wind Waker, or the more recent Star Fox Assault or Baten Kaitos. The Mario Party series is a good seller, and this is the direction where N is heading, and will limit istelf for its franchises; and neither are bestsellers of the other consoles short and simple games with low development costs.

Personally, I don't want to pass judgement until we see it. I agree that a bunch of Mario Party-like (and WarioWare for that matter) games is not what I want, but I never trust the early news for anything more than hype. Maybe Nintendo will roll out something that will really rock my socks, and this new thing will make me want to play.

I wanted to own a GameCube for the longest time mostly because of Super Monkey Ball, which is a game that you just use the control stick for. Perhaps it is games more like that - where they are still a decent length but they can be picked up, played for ten minutes and put down - that Nintendo means. If that is it, I'm on board with that idea because my free time amounts to sitting down to sessions of ten or fifteen minutes of gaming at a time. I don't want to have to sit through 10 minutes of cutscenes to play two minutes and then not be able to save.

I'll reserve judgement until release. That having been said, I agree with you that so far, the future doesn't look so bright for the next incarnation. I can't wait for the end of the month to actually know more about all of the systems and see if Nintendo is just blowing smoke or if they actually mean what they are saying about the Revolution.

And even if Nintendo means what they say about the Revolution and it does just what I said above, I don't know if that will be enough to get them out of the niche they are in. I like my Xbox because I use it as a DVD player too. And music deposit. My Xbox gets a lot more use because of these extra features, so in the end it is a better value. Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things. If Nintendo sits out the "multi-function machine" round again, then they have to go for the niche because they can never hope to be more than the "second" game machine someone owns.

PDorr3
04-25-2005, 05:43 PM
My DS is collecting dust, but it will be revived later on when the "good" games come out, its a shame titles like animal crossing and mario kart could not have been launch titles. It is true that the psp is a strong competitor for nintendo ds, I am highly satisfied with it and believe the psp has had one of the strongest launch lineups in recent memory...

calthaer
04-25-2005, 09:34 PM
I will add something else:

Nintendo needs to have Wonder Spots so that people with DSes and GBA / Wireless Adapters can go to stores or malls or places to do cool things with their games.

Doonzmore
04-25-2005, 10:41 PM
ACCLAIM WILL RETURN AND DOMINATE THE CONSOLE REALM WITH ITS OWN BEAST!

XxMe2NiKxX
04-25-2005, 10:47 PM
And, of course, everyone forgets about the innevitable dreamcast 2. =)

FurinkanianFrood
04-29-2005, 06:41 AM
there are a LOT of good/great games on the PS2

That's an opinion. In my opinion it most certainly does not.

Why can't someone bash Sony if they feel that Sony is rotten? Is this China? Is this some fascist bizarro-land?

Why should I pretend I think that their products (not just video game related BTW) are decent when most of what I have seen points in the other direction?

Every other damn day someone has to start this up again by putting down Nintendo, Atari, etc.

So it's OK for people to trash N but as soon as I trash Sony those same folks get all bent out of shape?

It's OK when Sony fans do it huh?

The double standard gets rather ridiculous.



where they are still a decent length but they can be picked up, played for ten minutes and put down - that Nintendo means


I thought it was rather clear that is their eventual goal (or I assumed it was.... yikes...).
And sometimes short games aren't bad. There have just been too many lately.



Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things.


I don't want added value beyond gaming if it costs much extra. I care about the games. Besides, at some point those features may be a liability. That way of doing things only had a huge impact once (PS2+DVD playback). Overkill may be their downfall.

I buy game machines for gaming alone.

If Sony and Microsoft both go too far with that N will be in their best position since before Sony got involved in the first place.

Added "value"=added cost=waste of my money.

That is why MS put the DVD playback licensing fee in the cost of the remote and not the console.



graphics aren't everything, shorter games, that todays games are too complex, and new control schemes


All of those sentiments are mirrored almost exactly in my own opinions about the direction games have taken in recent years.

Nintendo knows exactly what is wrong with games, and they intend to fix it at any price. They are not alone in not wanting to sell out. Neither am I. I don't even know why I bother saying the things I do. Am I just talking to the same brick walls that N's comments bounce off of?



non-sensical wishes of "most" gameplayers for shorter games, less complex games, less graphically impressive games


Those are the wishes of gamers. That is who Nintendo is talking to.

People who miss games that were games and had no pretense of being anything else. I miss the abstraction and simplicity of the golden age. I am not alone. We may be a dying breed, but we will never be won over to the darkside.

Gameplayers these days are seldom gamers.

They may never be #1 again, but they aren't going anywhere soon.

Sony looks to be screwing up much worse based on the information I have seen.

I believe that when the dust settles and the market returns to 2 consoles, Sony may not be there.

Their mistakes with the PS3 are clear to those willing to see them. Those mistakes may not topple them, but they are blatant nonetheless.

When a thread like this gets started, maybe it would be a good idea to extract the legitimate part of the discussion and make a new thread from it?

The earlier posts in a thread like this will keep drawing fire no matter what efforts are made to get it back on track it seems. What starts as OMFG it can't escape it entirely.

I need to stop the reactive counter-trolling I suppose, but I don't like to see that kind of rot go unopposed.



I don't want to have to sit through 10 minutes of cutscenes to play two minutes and then not be able to save.


That doesn't sound at all like Nintendo to me. That sounds like some of the games on PS/PS2 that I found utterly pointless.

To be honest, I can see that Nintendo has gone downhill somewhat. Sony looks like it's near a precipice to me. M$ could go anywhere from here (but most likely up IMO, at least in terms of market share, the games may go downhill).

Personally I like the added features of the XBOX btw. It's really just a matter of how such are implemented. Sony seems like they may be a little daft in that respect.

The Gamecube does have a relatively weak library, historically speaking, but not one I would call excessively so.

I was sold on it at launch because of SMBall personally.

thegreatescape
04-29-2005, 08:37 AM
So it's OK for people to trash N but as soon as I trash Sony those same folks get all bent out of shape?

Thats all you ever do though >_<
And Nintendo already "sold out", they just didnt do a good job of it; A yearly update to Mario Party, Mario kart on every console, Mario 64ds, a squillion zeldas, et al.

i thought this thread was dead >_>

hydr0x
04-29-2005, 09:43 AM
Mario kart on every console

omfg, they released the best multiplayer racing game on every new system with heavily improved graphics, how dare they, bastards

i can't even express how ridiculous such a statement is

thegreatescape
04-29-2005, 10:43 AM
your right i cant live without teh gr4ph1cZ!!!!!!1one

kainemaxwell
04-29-2005, 10:47 AM
Mario kart on every console

omfg, they released the best multiplayer racing game on every new system with heavily improved graphics, how dare they, bastards

i can't even express how ridiculous such a statement is
How dare a company try to make money on a popular game series. For shame, Nintendo!!11 LOL

Promophile
04-29-2005, 10:57 AM
Nintendo diserves to die for not released Earthbound 0+1 stateside! Bastards.

lurpak
04-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Havnt read the whole of this thread, but within the first page, gemini pheonix made some points bsed on his opinions and from then on he was flamed..

I suspect in frustration he has probably bounced back a few arguments with the people that jumped on him, and whos right or wrong in them cases I dont realy care.

if you dont like hearing other people opinions go and talk to a mirror, you self richeous fools, dont join a frigging forum

his opinion was that nintendo might suffer a bad console release..

none of you have access to nintendos sales figure vs cost analysis so his opinion is as valid as yours.

by all means disagree but dont be such jerks about it.

Avatard
04-29-2005, 11:31 AM
This board is filled with necromacers it seems......bringing dead topics back to life.

goatdan
04-29-2005, 11:40 AM
Nintendo diserves to die for not released Earthbound 0+1 stateside! Bastards.

They still might release that over here... I wouldn't doubt that it will happen. Localization of that set would take a lot of time though...

petewhitley
04-29-2005, 03:27 PM
People who miss games that were games and had no pretense of being anything else. I miss the abstraction and simplicity of the golden age. I am not alone. We may be a dying breed, but we will never be won over to the darkside.

Gameplayers these days are seldom gamers.

This is a pathetic, arbitrary distinction made by internet fanboys across the world, and it needs to die. I'm so sick of hearing this holier-than-thou drivel coming out of the mouth of every 16 year old to get his hands on an NES. (Not to imply that describes this poster in particular, but you get the idea).

Push Upstairs
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
I'm so sick of hearing this holier-than-thou drivel coming out of the mouth of every 16 year old to get his hands on an NES.

The best ones are those that think that old = always great.


"Do0d! Total Recall on the NES? That movie was sweet!"

Daniel Thomas
04-30-2005, 05:20 AM
Well, that distinction is probably more of an age thing, the product of 30-somethings who grew up on videogames of the '70s and '80s.

It's a part of life, really. Nothing is as good as it was 20 or 30 years ago. The country's always going to hell in a handbasket. The kids are always dumber than they were in the good 'ol days. Usually by the time you start talking like this, you get to wear pants up to your neck and watch Matlock reruns.

Matlock!!

SuperNES
04-30-2005, 07:42 AM
yes, and everybody look for the new atari 128000 in stores next june!


http://www.maj.com/gallery/Nuhvok-2000/FunnyStuff/untitled.gif

x_x

goatdan
04-30-2005, 08:52 AM
Nintendo hasn't been adding any value beyond gaming, while Microsoft and Sony look like they are falling over eachother to add new things.


I don't want added value beyond gaming if it costs much extra. I care about the games. Besides, at some point those features may be a liability. That way of doing things only had a huge impact once (PS2+DVD playback). Overkill may be their downfall.

I buy game machines for gaming alone.

If Sony and Microsoft both go too far with that N will be in their best position since before Sony got involved in the first place.

Added "value"=added cost=waste of my money.

That is why MS put the DVD playback licensing fee in the cost of the remote and not the console.

You though are relatively alone on this statement. The market has proved that more features is what people want in their game systems for a relatively similar price. Personally, I got an Xbox even though I was more interested by the GameCube line up because I could store and play music off the hard drive, and get a remote to watch DVDs with. Those features sold me.

The fact that the GameCube is in third place means that I think you're in the minority here. And with the next generation of consoles -- with the exception of Nintendo who has already declared that they won't be competing -- the features are only going to become more and more important. Nintendo is going to have to battle to prove that a no-featured console is something people want. It will be an uphill battle.

lendelin
04-30-2005, 01:54 PM
FurinkanianFrood, could you do me a favor and stop this fanboy talk?

If you don't like double standards, don't produce them yourself. If you don't like black-and-white pictures, don't produce them yourself. If you don't like trashing a system w/o even the slightest common sense, don't do it yourself.

If you don't like fanboys, don't be one.

To post messages like yours on this board only - and only - gets you rolling eyes. You won't be taken seriously. There are way too many board members on here who are very experienced and knowleadgeable gamers, and their game experience didn't start with the PS1 either.

grayrobertos
04-30-2005, 06:45 PM
How would you become motivated enough to want to down talk another gaming company in a thread? I just don't get it. What did you expect to happen when you posted this thread?

lendelin
04-30-2005, 11:34 PM
misunderstanding

zektor
05-31-2005, 02:29 AM
Damn, this thread is longer than it should be. I read the first 2 pages...

With that in mind, I don't see Nintendo loosing any ground anytime soon. I own a PSP, and I love it of course. I also own a DS, and I love it too. It has a different feel and different type of game to it that I like. I guess it's a Nintendo thing, and that is just the thing that appeals to others I'm sure.

Let's not even consider talking about the demise of companies that brought us to where we are today. If it happens someday, so be it. Let us just enjoy our consoles, and the fact that there are 3 big players in the videogame domain. Makes for good competition, and moreover, tons of games! I actually wish MORE companies would jump on the bandwagon....I would love to see tons of variety when it comes to game systems.

GamerNerd
05-31-2005, 10:12 AM
Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

TheRedEye
05-31-2005, 10:19 AM
Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

I think Zektor should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead for a month.

Xizer
11-26-2005, 08:43 PM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

badinsults
11-26-2005, 10:07 PM
Fanboy this, fanboy that & whoever using this "fanboy" talk should be severely punished. :angry:

I think Zektor should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead for a month.

I think Xizer should be punished for bumping the worst thread in forums history after it had been dead half a year.


lol

sisko
11-27-2005, 01:51 PM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

This is a valid point.

I don't know how portable sales are going over in Europe, but at my particular store, PSP sales are horrendously down, while DS sales are steadily climbing.

We've sold ONE PSP Gigapack in the two weeks that we have had them, no standard packs, and no value packs over the past 2 months. We also have 3-4 systems traded in per week.

Likewise, we have about 5 DSes per week go out the door each week, and only one has been traded in for the past two months.

suckerpunch5
11-27-2005, 02:09 PM
Yeah, I saw this is an interesting and entertaining bump. Obviously, the DS wan't the corporation killer everyone thought it would be. But, obviously, the verdict isn't in yet.

(off to play Mario Kart DS online. . .)

Avatard
11-27-2005, 02:55 PM
There is already a thread about current sales comparisons of the PSP and DS. Find it because I won't, I just don't care.

Cmtz
11-27-2005, 03:05 PM
DS ROCKS! That's all I will say.

By the way I do have a PSP and some games.

njiska
11-27-2005, 03:39 PM
There is already a thread about current sales comparisons of the PSP and DS. Find it because I won't, I just don't care.

DS Vs. PSP Ownage has already been brought back to life and is hanging around the top.

esquire
11-27-2005, 07:57 PM
DS games outnumber PSP games in my collection 23 to 2 (Lumines & Mercury). It wasn't until recently that there have been any PSP games to spark my interest. With the advent of rpgs on the PSP, I may have to start building up my collection.

But in case anyone hasn't caught on, there seems to be a trend with a new consoles. (See any XBOX 360 thread on launch games). Each new console is limited with launch releases, and it takes time to develop new games based upon the new technology - whether its a DS, PSP, 360 or whatever.

As for the original post way back, I think the DS was never meant to be anything else than what it is. It is not the next Gameboy, and never was meant to be. A waste? Hell No! Try telling us that now after playing Advance Wars Dual Strike, Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow, or Mario Kart DS.

If you ask me, the Micro is more of a waste. Sure its more compact and a better screen, but why now? We have already gone through the GBA, GBA SP and DS, all of which play GBA games, and now were espected to shell out another $100? Moreover, they redesign the GBA SP with the same screen technology as the Micro! All I know is wherever I go, I see boxes upon boxes of the Micro sitting on the shelves.

Gemini-Phoenix
11-28-2005, 04:45 PM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~ The PSP is a completely new venture for Sony, andthey still need to get a few more games released for it. Give it another few months, and a few more releases, and we'll review the situation...

sisko
11-28-2005, 04:56 PM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

A) Again, I'm not sure about the European side of things, but there is absolutely NO shortage of PSPs in the US. Every store I walk into has at least a dozen units and a handful of Gigapacks, and used shops have several preowned units.

B) A few weeks? The PSP launched in March in the US, and I believe April in Europe. Thats 8 months (or 7), far more than a few weeks.

Lothars
11-28-2005, 05:02 PM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~ The PSP is a completely new venture for Sony, andthey still need to get a few more games released for it. Give it another few months, and a few more releases, and we'll review the situation...


Well even though it's half the price there's not really many games on the PSP that are must haves

I mean lumanies(sp?) GTA, probaly some others but I just picked up a DS recently and I love it

I will eventually get a PSP but at the moment there's still nothing that's just convincing me to get it.

but to say the DS is a failing is completely wrong look at the games that are being released for it.

they are awesome some really amazing games

for example Phoenix Wright and Tramua Center

both amazing games.

but we will see.

Lothars
11-28-2005, 05:04 PM
If you ask me, the Micro is more of a waste. Sure its more compact and a better screen, but why now? We have already gone through the GBA, GBA SP and DS, all of which play GBA games, and now were espected to shell out another $100? Moreover, they redesign the GBA SP with the same screen technology as the Micro! All I know is wherever I go, I see boxes upon boxes of the Micro sitting on the shelves.

I agree 100% with this

I think the Micro is a waste as well, it's really nothing that should have been released but that's my opinion :)

Gemini-Phoenix
11-28-2005, 05:19 PM
Well the PSP Gigapacks have just been released here, and are limited to one per customer. The Value packs are not currently available apparently. Most stores that do have the PSP's are selling them as bundles only, as they did with the PStwo and crystal Xbox last year.

The Micro was made because they could make it. The same as why the PStwo exists. Technology has changed, and they can make the consoles smaller, so they did. After all, there was no real reason to make the Mega Drive smaller, but they did so because they could do.

Cmtz
11-28-2005, 05:53 PM
[quote=Xizer]
Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~

That's why the Gameboy micro has sold over 300,000 systems?

Gemini-Phoenix
11-28-2005, 07:36 PM
What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying teh Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.

grayrobertos
11-28-2005, 07:49 PM
What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying the Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.

I have never seen you post anything that, I could either agree with or at least see that you had some kind of point that at least made some sense. This post continues the trend.

dbiersdorf
11-28-2005, 09:00 PM
Pheonix have you actually played the DS, and any of it's games? You sound like a blatenet fanboy with no knowledge of the opposing system. The DS stated off slow, with little use of the touch screen. Let me say this, tell me one other system that can play Kirby Canvus Curse. How about Yoshi Touch & Go? Nintendogs? Castlevania? Maybe Meteos? Or even Trauma Center?

If you think the games aren't utilizing the touch screen, then you are a complete moron, and that's all there is to be said about it.


(ohh btw, the DS still leads the PSP in overall sales, not only by fact with weekly japan reports, but with sony holding back ndp numbers in the us is further indication the system is lacking, so tell me, where's nintendo going?)

Animerforever05
11-28-2005, 09:03 PM
What I meant was, people who break their GameBoy's tend to plump for the DS as it incorporates a GBA. The people buying the Micro are people like myself, who want something tiny to shove in their pocket to use at work ~ A PSP and DS are just too big, and mobile phone games (Yes, even the N-Gage) suck considerably.


If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream. In other words, a rival to the PSP, and not the "Next best thing that's not quite as good"

The DS is stuck in gaming limbo. It doesn't know what it is, and doesn't know what it wants. It want's to be so much, but can't, and can be so much more, but Nintendo refuses to let it. Meanwhile, we get some great innovative games amidst a load of duffers that really would have suited a PSP rival and not been wasted on the DS.


The PSP on the other hand is ahead of it's time. The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS. stf* and get banned troll! :evil: :angry:

sisko
11-28-2005, 11:37 PM
If anything is a waste, it's the DS. Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen.

Ah... so it is an anti fanboy. Wildly fabricating facts in order to support his poorly informed position.

This statement is HORRIBLY incorrect. ALL DS games make use of BOTH screens. If I'm wrong...prove it, and I'll be the first one to acknowledge my error.

The only games that use ONE screen are the GBA games. You know, the ones only designed for ONE screen.

ozyr
11-29-2005, 12:42 AM
Man, some people need to lighten up here. I'm not a fanboy of any current system, and I don't see the need to bash nintendo, or other systems. What's the point!?

Sure, Nintendo is not #1 (console sales), but I really don't care. As long as I get some good games, that's all I really want.

end-of-line (which means that is my two bits on this - no more).

WanganRunner
11-29-2005, 10:17 AM
Now see, this is an interesting topic, now that the DS is owning the PSP I wonder what the topic creator has to say?

I believe he would say "It's still early days - The PSP is only lagging behind due to the fact that there is A) A shortage, and B) It has only been out a matter of weeks" ~ After the new year, things will start to change...

Remember ~ The DS is less than half the price of the PSP, and is being bought as a replacement for GameBoy's ~ The PSP is a completely new venture for Sony, andthey still need to get a few more games released for it. Give it another few months, and a few more releases, and we'll review the situation...

A.) There is not a PSP Shortage, they are sitting in the stores, UNSOLD. A local EB here has THIRTY PSP's in stock, sitting in the back room, unsold. Their DS's are selling out between shipments.

B.) PSP has been out for a good while now, and it's still not taking off. It's *fantastic* hardware, I'll admit that, but it's too expensive and the software just isn't there. I dunno what you mean by Nintendo "not marketing to adults", all the adult gamers I know already have DS's.

C.) I'm buying a DS and like 7 games next week. I could buy a PSP Giga Pack and any games I want, but I'm not going to. There are some decent titles out for the PSP, but nowhere near the quality of what is getting released for the DS.

D.) No one cares that you have a red PS2. There, I said it. As LE consoles go, yours is middle-of-the-road at best, and certainly doesn't justify a little line of virtual red PS2's in your DP inventory. Please stop making these threads, no one cares what you think of Nintendo.

Lord_Magus
11-29-2005, 10:30 AM
D.) No one cares that you have a red PS2. There, I said it.

ROFL

goatdan
11-29-2005, 10:36 AM
First off, I can't believe that this thread rose from it's grave... *sigh*


Half the games out at the moment only use the one screen, so what's the point? Ok, nice idea Nintendo, I like the "Touchy feely" thing, but what we really need is a 64 or 128 bit handheld that has great power and great looks and plays a dream.

I don't know what games you're playing. Of the bunch that I own now, the only one that I can think of that falls into the category of not using the top screen for much of anything is Zoo Keeper. Nintendogs could probably be done without it too. But both of those games need the touch screen.

Mario Kart with two screens works SO well, it's amazing. Sonic Rush is fascinating with two screens. Even though it isn't necessary, having the map on Mario DS is a nice feature. Feel the Magic needs both screens for just about every game. Metroid Prime Pinball only works so well because it has two screens used at the same time.

The DS is unique. That's why, at least for the moment, I'm playing it more than all of my other consoles combined. Stating such a bold statement about the DS is unwarranted and completely untrue.

I'm not going to deny that the PSP is also an amazing system, but saying that the DS sucks because it isn't a PSP (or because it isn't 128 bits... *sigh* WHY are we still talking about bits? Was the Xbox not next-gen enough since it was 32-bits?)... anyway, saying the DS sucks because it isn't a PSP is as stupid as saying the PSP sucks because it isn't a DS. They are two completely seperate systems, and as such they do completely different things. Pick the one you like, but you shouldn't feel the need to rip on the other because of it.

Push Upstairs
11-29-2005, 03:23 PM
I don't even really like Nintendo and *I'M* tired of this thread/conversation.

How about we all just call it quits with this thread, mmmkay?

Mayhem
11-29-2005, 03:42 PM
Btw there ARE shortages of the PSP in the UK. We don't know if Sony were holding back or not delivering them in sufficient quantity, but for most of this month, it's been very hard to find one.

With Nintendogs out, so has it been for the DS too...

Enixis
11-29-2005, 04:04 PM
Btw there ARE shortages of the PSP in the UK. We don't know if Sony were holding back or not delivering them in sufficient quantity, but for most of this month, it's been very hard to find one.

I totally disagree. I've been seeing the same 'PSP IN STOCK! SELLING OUT FAST!' at my local GAME and Gamestation stores for the past 2 weeks now. And when i walk in i see the same 15 boxes stacked on the shelf. No ones buying the thing. Customers are always asking about the DS or Micro.
I also see more and more psp games and systems getting traded in by the day. Definitely not a good sign.

daynum
11-29-2005, 04:38 PM
All the shops in my area are sold out of the PSP to. Seems like Sony UK should ship some over from America if they are rotting on shelves there.

MrSmiley381
11-29-2005, 04:40 PM
Haha. Such a funny thread. Nintendo won't die. Why? Because they don't stop until it's game over. Plus, from a sales perspective, they're the only ones making money right now. Sure, they could make a lame-ass system, but if it sold well enough that it made them money, they wouldn't die.

Plus, it took Sega a long time to fall. It was slowly happening, but Nintendo isn't showing signs of death. Given, I own a PS2 as well (just not a red one) and I bought it first, because it appealed to me more. I still got a Gamecube. In fact, I only missed out on the Xbox, and that was because it just didn't appeal to me. Given, I hate fanboys of all types, so I'm not technically biased against anyone. Honestly, I want to play Panzer Dragoon Orta and Fable. And bad. However, my urges for Castlevania and RPGs made me buy the PS2. My urge for Super Smash Bros. Melee and Zelda made me buy a Gamecube next.

Tl, dr? Everyone shut up and play whatever you like, and don't say a company is dying until they give an official statement.

exit
11-29-2005, 04:52 PM
I've seen this same arugment since I was in 8th grade during the start of the N64/PSX war, people promising that the N64 would bomb and Nintendo would go bankrupt. Fast forward some years later, slap on a new name and get the same results. Who the hell cares, it's just videogames.

At my store it kind of breaks even with the handhelds. When there are no DS's ,there are plently of PSP's and vice versa. So things are pretty much even down here.

chicnstu
11-29-2005, 05:54 PM
Dang Gemini.....I used to respect your posts and think you were one of the coolest members here....

I have a PSP right now and a DS. I worked so hard in August to earn enough money to buy a PSP, a game, and a screen protector. The thing just looked so amazing and I was extremely interested in WipEout, Mercury, Daxter, and the multimedia capabilities. I ended up getting WipEout, Twisted Metal, and Untold Legends.

I really enjoyed the system for a couple of months. Putting music and videos on it was the coolest thing I've ever done, and the music on WipEout was the best I've heard in a game. But, I just didn't like the games. Untold Legends got boring after a while. The cars in Twisted Metal turned too fast or something, it's like they turned on the center of the car instead of the wheels. Sadly, I didn't like WipEout either, using the nub was difficult to get used to and made my hands hurt after playing a little while. Using the D-Pad hurt after a while also because you constantly have to press "Right, Left, Right, Right, Right, Left".

Also, the PSP is a little too heavy for a portable. But, I still think Sony did an amazing job of putting all of these abilities into such a small thing. It was just too heavy to play for long periods of time. Even the other people I know believe this.

There are things I don't like about the DS too. I don't like how they added a GBA slot, I don't like their commercials, and I don't like how you have to set it on a table sometimes to play the games. I still like the DS a whole lot more though, it has so many amazing games out or coming out like Mario Kart, CastleVania, Trauma Center, Electroplankton, and Metroid Pinball.

So now I'm going to sell my PSP and maybe try again to find something I like. I belive I'm going to try to get a 360 when people stop being stupid and buying them for $1000.

icbrkr
11-29-2005, 07:53 PM
D.) No one cares that you have a red PS2. There, I said it.


Not to +1 but.. heh.. damn that's funny.

philosophyst
11-29-2005, 09:16 PM
There are things I don't like about the DS too. I don't like how they added a GBA slot

I find this odd....

How can you not like the GBA slot? How is this a problem, it enables you to play the hundreds and hundreds of GBA games along with the DS games.

I just don't understand how this is a drawback to the DS system. Please explain!

njiska
11-29-2005, 09:51 PM
There are things I don't like about the DS too. I don't like how they added a GBA slot

I find this odd....

How can you not like the GBA slot? How is this a problem, it enables you to play the hundreds and hundreds of GBA games along with the DS games.

I just don't understand how this is a drawback to the DS system. Please explain!

It's also not a GBA slot but rather an expansion slot. Sure it allows you to play GBA games but it also you to use a rumble pack, and presumably more addons in the future.

This compalint definitely falls under the catagory of WTF?!?

Sothy
11-29-2005, 10:32 PM
Iceb = subtle master of hilarity

philosophyst
11-29-2005, 10:42 PM
It's also not a GBA slot but rather an expansion slot. Sure it allows you to play GBA games but it also you to use a rumble pack, and presumably more addons in the future.

This compalint definitely falls under the catagory of WTF?!?

Excellent point, I didn't even think of the rumble thing as I am yet to get the Metroid Pinball. But, yeah, what the heck are you thinking chicnstu? x_x

DarkStraw
11-29-2005, 11:14 PM
you guys are wrong about nintendo making enough to keep making games, they make more than enough, they may not be first in the home console race but they are neck in neck with sony in terms of profits and the xbox is wayy down there below them, i think the xbox will finnaly start to make a profit in 2007. (ive seen facts and graphs but dont remember the addy's sorry) and its very easy to understand why nintendo can keep up, its making 5 differnt consoles and making money off them while sony is making 2 or 3 and taking a loss on them all, do the math.

Nintendo makes money on their consoles therefor when one of their innovative idea's fails they have money to fall back on... if you take a loss on a system from the start you are already in debt and if your console fails you will be in the hole alot deeper. Ps3 is supposed to cost alot... im sure they will also take a big loss on each console sold... and if it dosent do so well and xbox wins, or even the revolution wins, sonys game devison will be in the red big time. They are taking a big risk... im not saying the ps3 will fail but nothing lasts forever, the ps3 may not fail... maby the ps4 will win the next next generation war, but eventually it has to die sometime.

Nintendo's consoles may be less powerfull but since when is power all that matters? i play games because they are fun and if nintendo can make fun games who cares wtf they look like.. its a plus if it looks nice, but i dont want to pay an arm and a leg just to make it look nice.

ive been watching the sales numbers from japan and the US (when the ones in the US are available) and in japan the DS is kicking the psp's ass (nearly double the sales)
in the US i think the psp and DS are about even. ( heck if i recall correctly the SP even outsoled the psp a week or 2 in japan)

of course then you can take into account that sony take a loss on each psp sold, while nintendo is making money on each DS, so while nintendo is winning in japan tied in the US and ahead in europe (but i do think the psp is gaining ground) psp is doing worse. Of course the PSP hasent released any good games lately and people say that thats what the movie capabilites are for and it can emulate... well emulation dosent really put any money on the table for sony, umd's do but who would buy a umd for 25.... when you can get a dvd for cheaper anyway im sure you have already heard that. and as for the DS being a gimmick, ive heard the touch screen is a gimmick and the second screen is a gimmmick.... personally i think the second screen is a little bit of a gimmick and it could have done without it but there are games that use it well, sonic, mario kart, mr driller, yoshi touch and go, and there are many great games that use the touch screen blah blah and the psp has really great graphics.

i would just like to say, its pretty sad that, for all those who claim the DS is a gimmick and such.... its sad that a gimmick is beating out the psp, which has such great graphics (great graphics that you can get on the xbox, ps2, gamecube umm xobx360) while the DS gives you something you cant just get from another console... a touchscreen.

Of course i dident buy the DS because its portable, i stay at home most of my time and when i leave i dont take my DS, and the psp kind of hinders you from taking it anywhere with the short battery life...and loading times which is why i ask the question.... why get a psp? just get a ps2, and if you have a ps2, then why are you even thinking about a psp? most of the games on the psp are on the ps2 in one form or another.

as for kiddy image, honestly do you play games because they are fun or do you play them just to look cool?

honestly i considered buying a psp (no i dont have one) but sony never bothered to put out demo stations, i guess they dont care about attracting new audiences, i like to try something befoure i buy it so if they arent gonna bother to let me try it out im not gonna consider it an option... i would like a psp for one or 2 games i like that are comming out for it and it would be nice for an emulator but i would rather spend the money on DS games. i do really wish the DS was more flexable in terms of being able to run stuff on it etc, but games and fun come first ( for me anyway)

of course i havent bought a nintendo home console since the snes dont really care this generation of consoles, they really havent brought anything new to the party except online gaming, as far as im conserned this generation of consoles arent even a new generation... the next generation could be the revoution, guess the ps3 and the xbox360 would still be stuck in the ps1/n64 generation huh. of course i wont buy a rev untill i try it on a demo station or somewhere, im no fool, it could very well flop, but it shows alot more promise then sony or microsoft, who have kept the same controllers since they made their first console and i guess plan on using them till the end of time...reminds me of how EA keeps reselling the same sports games over and over and people keep buying it. Nintendo may have flopped a couple times with their controllers but at least they are trying to make games more fun/differnt. the thing that dissapoints me the most about this current generation is that the same games come out for every system.... whats the point of differnt systems? AGHH.

of course you could always just choose the system which has the games you like ( im going to pretend that this generation dosent exist when making that statement)


And no im not a nintendo fanboy but i guess you could call me a DS fanboy, and everyone deserves one fanboy rant once in their life and here is mine.

Chronodriftersx
11-30-2005, 12:07 AM
of course i wont buy a rev untill i try it on a demo station or somewhere


Is good



the thing that dissapoints me the most about this current generation is that the same games come out for every system.... whats the point of differnt systems? AGHH.


for this we shall meditate on the wise and benevolent:

<Kuribo> NE146: You've caused me to the xb/gc's same cover, etc...but gc/xb have all this shit in the future. So lots of ass.

suckerpunch5
11-30-2005, 12:09 AM
That's it Darkstraw, get it all out. . .


The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.
:hmm:

Okay, no one panic! I promise, as a degree holding physicist, that the PSP doesn't break any laws of physics! Just because it looks "futuristic" doesn't mean it is breaking any laws of physics.

I just didn't want anyone to freak out. F = ma, in spite of the PSP's existence.

sisko
11-30-2005, 12:56 AM
That's it Darkstraw, get it all out. . .


The laws of physics state that the PSP should not exist, yet it does. It looks too cool, too futuristic to be placed in today's society next to something so bulky and ugly as the DS.
:hmm:

Okay, no one panic! I promise, as a degree holding physicist, that the PSP doesn't break any laws of physics! Just because it looks "futuristic" doesn't mean it is breaking any laws of physics.

I just didn't want anyone to freak out. F = ma, in spite of the PSP's existence.

HEY! But didn't you know that the PSP can push a rope?

ROFL

zektor
11-30-2005, 01:27 AM
I didn't do the bumping this time! :D

DarkStraw
11-30-2005, 09:45 AM
ZOMG BUMP! FACTS! http://nintendo.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=nintendo&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fnintendoinsider.com%2Fsite%2FEEEFy lpkElFffmiBlr.php

very interesting read, even if it is kinda old.

drummy
11-30-2005, 11:26 AM
I personally love the DS, and think that the PSP has a crappy game library, while the DS has a very good one. Sure the PSP has great hardware, but I hear of many defects, as well as shitty loading times for several games. I like the Gamecube a lot as well as well as the controller, and basically love a lot of games for Nintendo's console and portable systems.

ice1605
12-01-2005, 09:12 PM
OK, before I post, I must say that I am a bit (well, more than a bit) or a fanboy for Nintendo. But, the reasons I will present ARE justified. Anyway, Nintendo won't leave. A Revolution will be perfect for me. And as for the DS vs. PSP market, the DS is winning. The PSP isn't selling well. There are about 10 games released, none of them good. The DS, on the other hand, has MANY more games than the PSP and the games are much better. The UMD movies just seem ludacrous, there are more of those than games. Also, Nintendo makes more money than Microsoft and Sony (by the way... GO APPLE!!!). Saying that Nintendo is going to die is a rediculous claim. I guess that this thread should be locked. I can't beleive, Gemini, that you think that Nintendo will die. Nintendo will live. Microsoft will, but the X-Box 360 may die because of all of the reports of bugs, not to mention no good games planned.

NESVIDIOT
12-03-2005, 01:15 PM
I am a Nintendo fanboy. Proudly so. I do own just about all the other systems and have a fair library of good titles for each. So I'm not blind to the fact I have to own other systems to get the exclusive titles. For me, the only reason to own any other system than Nintendo.
Nintendo is like the Godfather. It ain't easy to take out the mob boss. Sony and X-box are great and fun too but you can't deny that Nintendo simply MAKES it FUN. And usually cheap enough so that more parents can buy little Johhny a system and a couple of cool games as a gift and not have to remortgage the house. Not everyone has expendible cash to buy videogames and usually mainstream parents don't game hunt like we do. I do buy some new games at lauch( Mario Kart DS :-P ) but usually wait to pick up titles that I know will show up at one of my connections a few weeks after launch at a fraction of the price.

Nintendo ain't going anywhere for some time- probably not until games aren't fun anymore. Nintendo is ONLY a game company, unlike Sony and Microsoft.

Chronodriftersx
12-03-2005, 01:23 PM
The Eyes of Nye are upon us we're all under his scrutiny :evil: X_x O_O http://www.kcts.org/inside/news/images/eyesofnye_big2.jpg
yeah I don't always post big ass images this isn't too blighty and he'll even get you excited about Hydrogen as well..

kevin_psx
12-03-2005, 01:52 PM
The demise of Nintendo is almost upon us!


Oh jeez. Whatever.

----->Goes back to Metroid Prime 2.

Richter Belmount
12-03-2005, 09:16 PM
I doubt nintendo is going down they own a fraction of the market 2 portable systems and a console. I see anybody just buy with the nintendo name around my parts.
another thing....
I dont understand why some people want to see nintendo go down I mean people just want to go support ... sony and have a lack of innovation , saturated game genres,
tons of sequels Sure thats what the game industry needs.

sabre2922
12-03-2005, 10:34 PM
I DONT WANT NINTENDO TO LEAVE THE CONSOLE MARKET :( but then again I didnt want Sega out either.

Now that being stated IF it does so happen that the Revo only sales around 3 million units within its first few years as predicted this MIGHT happen. Although after the Xbox360s launch Im much more hopeful for the Revolution in that I would rather have a solid Nintendo system thats not going to BREAK/FREEZE or MELT DOWN the first freaking day that I own it O_O

Ill never buy another Microsoft console and IF Sony doesnt do a better job with the PS3 hardware Ill just stick with current gen for the next 4-5 years and pick up a Revolution when its released.

chicnstu
12-06-2005, 04:40 PM
I didn't mean I didn't like having the ability to play all of the GBA games. I meant that I don't like how they added that in there because that caused even more dumb people to call it the "GameBoy DS". It's a great feature but I just think that if Nintendo was going to call the DS their "Third Pillar" then they should have left that out.

grayrobertos
12-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Just let this topic die.....please

chicnstu
12-06-2005, 05:14 PM
I was just letting the people know what I meant.

Pente
07-15-2006, 12:22 AM
Still waiting 8-)

Phosphor Dot Fossils
07-15-2006, 12:47 AM
Yeah, we're still waiting for you to stop bumping old DS threads left, right and center. :roll: If you've got more of a point to make, please make it in one place instead of dredging up a bunch of old threads and basically posting the same thing. Thanks!

Bronty-2
07-15-2006, 04:24 AM
Ehh. It's actually kind of entertaining to see how seriously people took a possible nintendo demise six months ago. They've sure picked up a lot of momentum in that six months...

Doom Gaze
07-15-2006, 04:33 AM
Ehh. It's actually kind of entertaining to see how seriously people took a possible nintendo demise six months ago. They've sure picked up a lot of momentum in that six months...

Not six months. Eighteen.

I wonder what all the Sony fanboys and Nintendo deniers like the OP have to say now that DS has stomped PSP. Stomped in every facet; sales and quality, and in every notable territory.

Bronty-2
07-15-2006, 05:15 AM
Ehh. It's actually kind of entertaining to see how seriously people took a possible nintendo demise six months ago. They've sure picked up a lot of momentum in that six months...

Not six months. Eighteen.

I wonder what all the Sony fanboys and Nintendo deniers like the OP have to say now that DS has stomped PSP. Stomped in every facet; sales and quality, and in every notable territory.

Guess what? Believe it or not, I can add. I was referring to the approximately six months since the last posts were made. I know you're referring to the time since the thread started, but that's not what I was referring to.

But yeah, its been nothing but good news for nintendo and bad news for sony lately. Mmm... a $600 console with $80 games because of a movie format I have no interest in... gee, where can I sign up?

Nintendo on the other hand has been kicking ass with sales for ds hardware, ds software, good showing at e3 for wii, 3rd parties getting behind their platform, etc etc.

Sothy
07-15-2006, 05:21 AM
replace Nintendo with Sony and yeah 100% right.

Bronty-2
07-15-2006, 05:24 AM
Huh? How so? Do you mean in the title of this thread, or..?

bangtango
07-15-2006, 09:30 AM
I added this to a bumped thread that was later locked, so I followed the link that was left in the locked thread to repost.


Thinking Nintendo will go away is a joke. All they need is the same type of stranglehold on third-parties that they had in the 1980's and 1990's. If that happens and Sony ended up becoming second banana, or third banana, to those other developers then they will be the ones in trouble. Nintendo actually has enough first-party firepower which Sony and Microsoft will never possess.

Nintendo can sell enough systems, at least one or two million each time out, on account of a single Mario game and a single Zelda game. Why should they cave in and let some outsider like Sony get their hands on those characters or licenses? Let Sony have their exclusive (and repetitive) Grand Theft Auto type of games, which seems like is all they have going for them for months at a time.

People say Nintendo markets to kids but some of the games you see on Playstation market to the Adam Sandler, "Maxim Magazine", Ashton Kutcher, "Jackass" or Beavis & Butthead mentality. Heh, heh, fire. Cool!!!!! Heh, heh, guns..... No better than Nintendo. Almost the same common denominator, just in two different age groups. Sony manages to paint themselves in a corner too, on occasion, by being stubborn with their direction.

Sony without the third parties would be like Sega when they were trying to keep the Dreamcast in the console wars. But at least Sega could make a good game here and there.

Frica89
07-15-2006, 12:56 PM
I'm sick of this shit. Nintendo will always have a loyal fan base.

Undertaker
07-15-2006, 10:24 PM
As long as people support Nintendo they will always be around.It seems like Nintendo,Sony and Microsoft all have there fans.They all sell their products well.I do not see anyone fading out any time soon. :hmm:

bangtango
07-15-2006, 11:51 PM
Nintendo would have to delibrately put forth an effort capable only of Atari to ever be doomed. Maybe if they hired Trip Hawkins to help market the Wii and Sam Tramiel to do the negotiating with third party developers.

Hams
07-17-2006, 05:03 AM
zzzzzz why Digital press why?.

Xizer
07-17-2006, 06:12 AM
Why is this shitty topic bumped back up?

I put the chances of Sony going bankrupt higher than Nintendo. That company is failing miserably and bleeding money left and right.

The failing of the PSP, the flopping of the PS3...losing like 1 billion dollars last year and having to lay off a bunch of employees...

Sounds like a dying company to me.

poloplayr
07-17-2006, 08:18 AM
This is a continuation of my other thread - Is the games industry getting just a little too crowded? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58722)


I forsee something going down - And I think it may just be Nintendo this time!


The DS is unnecessary. It is a half-arsed attempt to advance, but doesn't seem to have actually made it...

In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. Nintendo could have made a replacement for the GBA, but they didn't. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't. What we have is just an ugly mess - One which won't last in my eyes.


Until now, Nintendo have virtually ruled the handheld market since atari and Sega pulled out some time ago. Many have tried to take their crown, and many have failed - Until now, and it may just look like they will be mopping up their own blood.

They should have focused their efforts on making either a successor to the GBA or a dedicated next gen console. Not the DS.


And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...


History has taught us that when there are too many consoles - One has to drop out... And seeing as how Nintendo seem to be faltering at the moment... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...

LOL...so funny to see how wrong this poster was...

NE146
07-17-2006, 10:59 AM
Not just him, but a lot of people were big on "predicting" the fall of Nintendo over the past 2 years or so. Ever notice they've since quieted down? :P

Hep038
07-17-2006, 11:21 AM
Wow this thread started out as a nintendo hate thread ,died and was brought back as a nintendo loving zombie. Pretty cool. :beaten:

Pente
12-09-2006, 02:11 PM
In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't.

And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...

... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...

Hilarious LOL

Xizer
12-09-2006, 02:52 PM
This thread is always good for comic relief.

Predatorxs
12-09-2006, 07:35 PM
This is a continuation of my other thread - Is the games industry getting just a little too crowded? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58722)


I forsee something going down - And I think it may just be Nintendo this time!


The DS is unnecessary. It is a half-arsed attempt to advance, but doesn't seem to have actually made it...

In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. Nintendo could have made a replacement for the GBA, but they didn't. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't. What we have is just an ugly mess - One which won't last in my eyes.


Until now, Nintendo have virtually ruled the handheld market since atari and Sega pulled out some time ago. Many have tried to take their crown, and many have failed - Until now, and it may just look like they will be mopping up their own blood.

They should have focused their efforts on making either a successor to the GBA or a dedicated next gen console. Not the DS.


And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...


History has taught us that when there are too many consoles - One has to drop out... And seeing as how Nintendo seem to be faltering at the moment... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...

In all fairness, the DS is the next gen in handheld games from nintendo, the Wifi, the reto twist from the game and watch era and the quality of the games, its a natural progression, i dont have one but my GF and little girl both have one (DS lites) and i play it all the time!.

the psp is good.. But good for what? it plays games and videos, for its price and all the promises from sony. I'v played it quiet alot lately and its good, but its aimed at a different market than the DS, I'v seen all kinds of people all kinds of ages with DS's.

But for the PSP it's young boys and guys in there mid to late 20's, how many girls have PSP's?? and there too expensive for young kinds, were as nintendo still has the family/kids market.

Also Gemini-Phoenix, not to flame, but it's clear your a sony fan (which is cool) but if people go through your posts from day one, this is the type of post you come up with.. and its alittle far fetched, the PSP kills off Nintendo! errr Not today, NOT ever! ;)

But hows about the big thing that CAN kill off Sony... the PS3! thats gunna be financial suicide. lets wait and see! ;) (i'm trying to be neutral but its hard!)

They (sony) couldn't just stick to what it says on the tin, they had to turn the damn thing into a swiss army knife, People already have DVD players, people already have the internet, people already have a PC and photo albums. They (sony) should have gone hard after the xbox live service, and matched, if not beat it. But they've dropped the ball.

Nintendo always go the family route, to cover all the bases, and it works, why else are they still here, because theres a market and people want them, i have a ps2 and think its good, but i flat out refuse to pay the price for the ps3, it's going to be a marketing mess!.

Over 100 years old and still going strong.... NINTENDO! (I'm not a fan boy, i just an appreciation for the finer things in video gaming life!)


*****************************************
EDIT** I just noticed how old this thread is/was LOL

Continue...

chicnstu
12-09-2006, 08:00 PM
Yeah, looks like his predictions didn't come true.

Bronty-2
12-09-2006, 08:19 PM
Reading some of these threads with the benefit of hindsight is freaking hilarious

mills
12-09-2006, 09:23 PM
yep, owned.

BocoDragon
12-09-2006, 09:40 PM
My favorite experience of the last month has been reminiscing and laughing at former Nintendo/Revolution/Wii doomsayers.

Overbite
12-10-2006, 09:56 AM
I wasn't sure they could do it, but Nintendo really made good on what they said. People who have never played videogames before are going crazy over the Wii. Old people are buying Wiis for themselves! Newspapers are having articles on "hot items for christmas" and they're going crazy over the Wii saying how neat it is, but no mention of PS3 or 360.

Nintendo really did grab the market of people who don't play games and got them playing. It's crazy

John_Madden
02-20-2008, 02:28 PM
Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

The DS lost already the race before it really began. I said it back then, and I say it again, the dual screen -- sold as "innovation" - - was a desperate reaction of N which realized that they cannot compete with the PSP. They looked for another market within the game industry, not for the traditional handheld market. Less power sold by PR as emphasizing gameplay and innovation mean in reality less sales. Gameplay and innovation is not restricted to the underpowered systems, they will come automatically to the most established hardware, and in doubt the more powerful system will win.

In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N. Sony 'matured' the handheld games which means more mature gamers will flock to the PSP; they will expand the demographics of gamers; a good portion will be the so far non-handheld gamers, Sony will win over new customers. The marketshare won't be a zero-sum game, but it will come at the cost of N who will loose a good portion of handheld-gamers.

All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

If you want to sell more games you need people to buy them.

Berserker
02-20-2008, 03:08 PM
If you want to sell more games you need people to buy them.

What's the point of resurrecting year+ old threads just to further argue with Lendelin on the same points? It'd be cool if you could keep that particular "discussion" to the one multi-paged beast already in progress, thanks.

Poofta!
02-20-2008, 03:08 PM
This is a continuation of my other thread - Is the games industry getting just a little too crowded? (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58722)


I forsee something going down - And I think it may just be Nintendo this time!


The DS is unnecessary. It is a half-arsed attempt to advance, but doesn't seem to have actually made it...

In one hand, we have the GBA, in the other, the PSP. The DS is neither, but wants to desperately be both. And is failing miserably. Nintendo could have made a replacement for the GBA, but they didn't. They could have made a next gen console to rival the PSP, but they didn't. What we have is just an ugly mess - One which won't last in my eyes.


Until now, Nintendo have virtually ruled the handheld market since atari and Sega pulled out some time ago. Many have tried to take their crown, and many have failed - Until now, and it may just look like they will be mopping up their own blood.

They should have focused their efforts on making either a successor to the GBA or a dedicated next gen console. Not the DS.


And I fear that the new PlayStation and Xbox will finish them off for good too! Especially seeing as how the gaming theatre is getting a little crowded now...


History has taught us that when there are too many consoles - One has to drop out... And seeing as how Nintendo seem to be faltering at the moment... I think the PSP could be the one which deals the final blow to a company already down on it's knees...



3 years later... wow how times have changed!

Frankie_Says_Relax
02-20-2008, 03:15 PM
LOL ... "demise" of Nintendo.

Yeah ... nobody's buying Wiis' and DS'es.

exit
02-20-2008, 03:21 PM
I remember seeing this topic and my opinion on it is still the same, Nintendo isn't going anywhere.

PentiumMMX
02-20-2008, 04:14 PM
I think I remember seeing this topic ages ago.

Anyway, my 2 cents on this: Nintendo isn't going anywhere. It's like Microsoft discontinuing all versions of Windows and telling everyone to switch to Linux; It just won't happen.

Overbite
02-20-2008, 05:19 PM
I was gonna add my 2 cents but I guess I did a few years ago

Nophix
02-20-2008, 08:23 PM
Not to add fuel to a thread ressurrection, but here's my points being a nintendo fanboy.

DS- I have one. I think I've played it a total of 6 hours.... In a year and a half. I have good games, and I still dislike it that much. Actually, I wish I would have kept the GBA SP i had before it. I bought a PSP about a week or so ago, and will never look back to the DS. The PSP just does it RIGHT!

What's my biggest complaint about the DS? The damn STYLUS! It's ok for general navigating through menus, but SUCKS for gaming! It's so cumbersome! WTF were they thinking?

Nintendo as a whole- All I have to say is Wiiiiiii!!! I LOVE my Wii! Absolutely the best system I have ever played! Now, this is next-gen controls done right! And as for graphics, say what you want but with a good HDTV and component cables, this thing is amazing. No, it isn't a PS3 or 360, but it isn't far off. However, Nintendo never has been the realistic graphics company. they've always focused on the family gamers, which IMO has liongevity beyond the gears of War and Halo franchises.

Nintendo has classic, family friendly characters and games that will continue on a timeless tradition of wholesome entertainment.

Now, lets not forget the PS3's high price poiint and the rediculous failure rate of the 360.

Nintendo isn't going anywhere, they just need to re-think the handheld market.

rkotm
02-20-2008, 08:29 PM
/end of teh thread. dead. buried. old newz.k thx bai.

Streetball 21
02-20-2008, 09:32 PM
LOL ... "demise" of Nintendo.

Yeah ... nobody's buying Wiis' and DS'es.

Ha, I remember I was at Best Buy the morning of the Wii launch to buy Zelda, (I bought my Wii somewhere else) and this guy in line was saying to everyone how Nintendo was done and finished and this is their last system blah blah blah. He kept saying he was gonna beat Zelda in a week and then sell it. I had a feeling he was wrong, not sure why, maybe because of the huge crowd that was there. I wonder what this guy thinks of Nintendo now lol.

Icarus Moonsight
02-21-2008, 12:28 AM
Humble pie, served ala mode. :) Looks like some folks Magic 8-balls lied to them... should have said "Ask again later... much later. They're all gonna laugh at you! Trust me." LOL

So, how's that "death" of Sony coming along? Never too soon to start another rumor of doom. ;)

Super Mario Fan
02-21-2008, 12:42 AM
Humble pie, served ala mode. :) Looks like some folks Magic 8-balls lied to them... should have said "Ask again later... much later. They're all gonna laugh at you! Trust me." LOL

So, how's that "death" of Sony coming along? Never too soon to start another rumor of doom. ;)

Oh. You didn't hear? The reason Sony is discontinuing their 80GB PS3, is because they're going bankrupt. At GDC tomorrow they're announcing that they are exiting the console business to focus on software for the Wii and DS.

Icarus Moonsight
02-21-2008, 01:31 AM
Holy crap! It must be true. I mean, why post it if it isn't. ;)

kentuckyfried
02-21-2008, 01:54 AM
I think that the wii is a gimmick, (an extremely successful gimmick) and that the DS is excellent.

There isn't a single game for me on the Wii to date, (pretty much the same attitude towards the 64 and GC ((with a couple of exceptions of course)) but the DS has many games I have (and still do) enjoy.

Push Upstairs
02-21-2008, 02:37 AM
Oh. You didn't hear? The reason Sony is discontinuing their 80GB PS3, is because they're going bankrupt. At GDC tomorrow they're announcing that they are exiting the console business to focus on software for the Wii and DS.

I heard this exact same thing from the video game professionals at GameStop!

Fuyukaze
02-21-2008, 03:20 AM
Reading thru this thread all over again still makes me tinkle myself just a little bit as I laugh so hard. God, wow, this whole thing is still priceless! I cant wait to see just how it reads 3 years from now! God, this thread is the joke of legend.

lendelin
02-21-2008, 03:22 AM
Let me say something about the resurrection of this thread before the Wii fanboy club chimes in to brand anyone as single minded gamers who dare to question the quality of Wii-games . :)

It is cheap and childish to resurrect such a thread because there was in another thread a heated “debate” about the Wii. The resurrection of this thread is as deflecting from reasoning as were the arguments of the Wii-boy fanclub in the other thread.

The biggest difference of the two issues: in this old thread I made predictions about the new console of N 18 months before it was released; in the other thread my evaluation of Wii-games took place 15 months after its release. The latter cannot be about predicting its future.

In the other thread the Wii fanboy club insists that I condemn the Wii for eternity, that I made statements about how it shapes up in the next three years although I never did. I didn’t do that even remotely in any of my posts, I stressed that numerous times. Like true ideologues they ignore it. They hear what they want to hear because it is convenient in order to avoid thinking.

However, they were once good at High School essays -- I think. At least one critiqued my posts referring to his High School essays. :)

The strategy of the intelligent ideologues: you were wrong back then, you are wrong about the future of the Wii now. You evaluated pre-maturely back then, now it is the same with the Wii. Completely besides the point and just plain dumb because I didn’t say a thing about the future of the Wii, merely critiqued existing Wii games.

Unlike the rambling fanboys who believe that evaluations of present consoles and their games should be determined by their future potential, I stick to reality when I evaluate what’s out there; and I stick to reality when I make predictions. The latter is ALWAYS uncertain because the marketplace is uncertain.

What’s the point resurrecting this old thing?:

You’ll see the answer of these guys will be: this shows how detached from reality you are, how wrong you were about N, how wrong you are about the Wii, you are on drugs when you talk about systems, it shows how biased you are, it shows how intolerant you are, it shows how self-righteous you are, the Wii will be an AWESOME system one day. (They posted all of the above nonsense) You’ll also see that they will pick quotes out of context, build up scapegoats, and go after opinions which were never expressed.

I believe in the meantime that these guys are so radical, dumb, and strong believers that they would start a war over silly issues. I really can’t imagine what kind of life they have, if any. I always keep a cool head and I'm very rational. I admit I don't understand the strong emotions and seriousness about issues radicals are able to develop.

This is like coming in between radical Obama and Clinton supporters.

I hope they won’t go in my records and find that I got a speeding ticket when I was 19 and two parking tickets when I was in my mid-20s (which is true); that I had a good sex life and fulfilled all my sexual fantasies, even very wild ones; (which is also true) however, I swear to God that I never paid for sex, although there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and in Germany (where I grew up) it is anyway legal. I also had never sex with children or animals; I never took drugs, the question of inhaling therefore is obsolete; however I admit that I smoked cigarettes for over two decades and quit two years ago.

BTW, this thread wasn’t started by me, and I never used the word “demise.”

I wrote the following in April 2005, one year and a half before the Wii was released:


Kiddy image or not, deserved or undeserved, N is in trouble, in big trouble. The GC goes very slowly the road of third party support of the N64; in the last DP Wire there were more than ten releases listed for the PS2 and Xbox, one (ONE!) for the GC. Looking at release lists in the last year, it gets slowly worse and worse. Sales figures for games, third party support, hardware sales, harsh economic facts tell us all one thing.The image problem is there, no matter as a result of the software or hardware sales or the cycle of both.

...

All the hints given in interviews by Iwata and people from NOA about the "Revolution" indicate a very similar strategy. No competition for Sony and MS anymore, a less powerful system, innovation and gameplay comes first, we want to appeal to the hardcore gamers AND non-gamers. (if they manage that, they will be on the level of Aristotle.

It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation. For me that is clear for months now. N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

Sad, but reality. This isn't speculation, no fanboy babble, it is the writing on the wall.

I stand behind every word I wrote about the GC and the terrible shape of N in the CONSOLE business in 2005. If N executives would have assessed their situation differently and ignored dramatic dwindling market shares of its CONSOLES over a period of nine years, N would be dead by now. Unlike members of fanclubs they cannot afford to wear blindfolds.

When I wrote...


It is basically the good-bye of N from the traditional console market for the next generation...N looks for another market in the game industry. They are not competitive anymore in the traditional market.

...I was right - and wrong. Right that they try to tap into a non-traditional gamer market, wrong that they leave the console business.

For awhile I thought N would achieve to tap into a new market by focusing on the handheld market alone, a couple of months later I wrote that they might release a combo handheld/console. In both cases I was wrong. I have no problem whatsoever to admit that.

However, N achieved with the unique Wii to tap into a non-traditional market by focusing on different gamers (“casual gamers and non-gamers”) circumventing a direct competition with the PS3 and Xbox360.

Unlike my assessments of the Wii, this was PURE speculation. What else can it be 18 months before the thing is released?

In April of 2005 we didn't know specifics about the console, we only had a couple of interviews by N representatives vaguely talking about focus groups and statements that gamers aren't really interested in cutting-edge technology.

As soon as the Wii was announced with nice pics, I didn’t foretell anything terrible about Ns future. I stressed that this is a very smart business decision. I stressed that N is onto something because of changed leisure time activities, changed family situations, and furthermore the lessons they learned from the Japanese game market which experienced a severe slowdown from 2004 to 2006.

However, I wholeheartedly admit that I was absolutely wrong how successful the little Wii would become.

I wrote in the other thread that I always thought that the Wii will be a very distant third to the PS3 and 360. Like so many others I was completely caught by surprise by the sales numbers of 2007. I didn't try to hide that my foretelling abilities are very limited. :)

I was wrong. What do you fanboys want from me? Please don’t crucify me because I don’t share your opinion about the Wii. PLEASE. :)

I tell you another secret: I was completely wrong about the Gameboy, too. In 1990 a former classmate of mine who made his doctorate in economics worked for N in Germany. (He left N after two years) They had a very small staff back then, and unlike in the US Nintendo wasn’t a household name yet. We talked about the upcoming Gameboy, and off the record he was as skeptical as me. We thought it might be a complete flop. (Like so many others in the industry back then, like so many others who were wrong about the Wii two years ago.)

Just three months ago I met my friend at a High School reunion in Germany. He is in the meantime completely detached from gaming, worked for a long time for the German publishing house Bertelsmann, and has now a professorship in economics.

We laughed about how wrong we were about the Gameboy and talked about its success. We didn't take it seriously because we know that there is no successful guy in business who at one point didn't make completely wrong decisions based upon misperceptions.

Only guys who have no idea about business and engage only in hindsight analysis are never wrong...and only ignorant fanboys resurrect old threads and scream "HAHA, I told you so" in order to deflect from their low level reasoning.

Here I am: I was wrong, not completely, but certainly wrong about the future of N in the console business. What do you want from me? Shoot me? :)

BTW, I still think that the second screen of the DS is a gimmick, and I predicted that there will be a 50/50 market share between the DS and PSP. It is now more around one third/two thirds. Please don’t shoot me for that either. PLEASE.

I could think about ten predictions I made on this site which turned out to be correct. But I think it would be really childish to resurrect these threads and say HAHA, I told you so. (In particular if they have nothing to do with the price of rice in China)

This epic novel was it for me about this thread. If the Wii fanboy club wants to resurrect it again in the future because I might see the slightest flaw of Nintendo and disagree with them, please feel free to do so. :)

I think that everyone can tell that resurrecting such an old thread backfires. It has nothing to do with current disagreements, it is just plain dumb. Everyone who refers to it like blueLander and djbeatmongel because they ran out of arguments in another thread risks their reputation. I suspect that they don't really care because they are on a warpath to achieve gamers paradise on a road named Wii.

They might even risk their souls on their mission. :)

I apologize for my English, English isn't my native language. I truly apologize to the Wii fanboy club before blueLander again refers to the intellectual heights of his high school essays. I truly apologize again for the courage to provoke you two educational dictators with my own opinion. I hope one day you'll forgive me. :)

alec006
02-21-2008, 04:07 AM
Nintendo has been around since 1889,and ever since then there have been people probably wanting to see them go out of buisness, it just wont happen, why cause people still pick up their NES, SNES, N64 and GC games every single year and play their childhood again and again, that lasting appeal Nintendo will always have. So what the DS doesn’t use a UMD disc to play its games, and cant play all these movies, first off, people usually buy movies to watch at home on their TV and on their kickass surround sound system, we only buy a few portable movies when were on the go or stuck on a plane for 14 hours, then again that’s what laptops and DVD drives are for. Nintendo has always appealed to mostly everyone young, adult and old and that is their goal, they don’t need to be the macho companies that put 3 core processors and super high resolution graphics into their machine, they make a system that any normal human being can pick up and start playing and play for hours on end. It is good to see there are Nintendo people, there Sony People, Microsoft People.... its great to see many of these people devoted, but remember, there just game systems, they are met to be fun, they are not to be in competition with each other, each system appeals to a group and if they like it, thel buy it and play it again and again. Unless some person makes something more notable than Mario, Samus, Link, Donkey Kong or Pokemon, Nintendo will never die, remember this company is over 110 years old, and children are born everyday and later discover such a fun company that makes wonderful games, plus the adults and the old that rediscover, wow I haven’t played this in years I had so much fun back then, I think ill play it again. Now ill admit I am a Nintendo fan boy also a Sega Fanboy, but that doesn’t mean I hate Microsoft or Sony, I love to play games on those systems, cause Nintendo doesn’t have Halo nor Metal Gear Solid. Again unless some creative person makes some revolutionary thing that beats Halo, Mario, Sonic and whoever else that’s popular, all 3 companies will continue to make their systems and entertain us and entertain our children and their children when we die.

scooterb23
02-21-2008, 07:43 AM
Any chance this thread can be submitted to the Epic Fail section of Attack of the Show?

Dreamc@sting
02-21-2008, 07:50 AM
lol I second that scoot, this is the main reason I don't post "predictions" on game console wars. Although the current scenario in gaming I seen coming - theres no way the Wii or DS WOULDN'T of been the top dog. I'm glad the poster was wrong in his opinion, even though I was a die hard Sega supporter back in the day, I'd rather see one of the originals be on top rather than sony or microsoft!

blue lander
02-21-2008, 08:21 AM
Dude... let... it... go. Let's act like adults and bury the hatchet like the moderators have asked us too, okay? The last thing these boards need are flame wars.

For my part, after reading this thread I apologize for debating you in your wii thread. Had I known you said The DS lost already the race before it really began. and In one year there will be a 50/50 marketshare in the handheld industry between Sony and N at the expense of N just 4 months after the DS was launched, I would have never taken your posts about the wii seriously enough to have responded to them in the first place.

esquire
02-21-2008, 10:43 AM
I believe in the meantime that these guys are so radical, dumb, and strong believers that they would start a war over silly issues. I really can’t imagine what kind of life they have, if any. I always keep a cool head and I'm very rational. I admit I don't understand the strong emotions and seriousness about issues radicals are able to develop.

That's why I always referred to them as the "Nintendo Mafia", sort of like that old Monty Python skit - "The Spanish Inquisition" - where they just pop in and exclaim, "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition". I really try to avoid arguing with them as its totally senseless. They'll just shout you down. It was painful to see try to argue logically with them in that other thread.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/Spanish_Inquisition_%28Monty_Python%29.jpg

8-bitNesMan
02-21-2008, 11:34 AM
That's why I always referred to them as the "Nintendo Mafia", sort of like that old Monty Python skit - "The Spanish Inquisition" - where they just pop in and exclaim, "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition". I really try to avoid arguing with them as its totally senseless. They'll just shout you down. It was painful to see try to argue logically with them in that other thread.

OK totally unrelated to the topic but had to post: You know what's funny? My good buddy had "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition" as part of his gamer profile on Xbox Live and they banned his account. WTF?

Icarus Moonsight
02-21-2008, 12:37 PM
Hey now. Don't look at me. I didn't dig 'er up. I just happened to trip over the corpse. :D

Xizer
02-21-2008, 01:55 PM
A classic thread of epic fail.

owned

lendelin
02-21-2008, 02:09 PM
That's why I always referred to them as the "Nintendo Mafia", sort of like that old Monty Python skit - "The Spanish Inquisition" - where they just pop in and exclaim, "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition". I really try to avoid arguing with them as its totally senseless. They'll just shout you down. It was painful to see try to argue logically with them in that other thread.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/10/Spanish_Inquisition_%28Monty_Python%29.jpg

You are absolutely right, heybtbm wrote right the same thing in the other thread right away. He was smarter than me. See, intelligent and well informed posters like you, or Daria, heybtbm, goatdan, YoshiM, blissfulnoise, Rob2600, and so many others can always have a civil conversation no matter how much they disagree.

I miss the responses of Zach Meston. We had serious disagreements, but dang the guy was well informed and intelligent.

...and then you have a couple of guys who join a thread with the “how dare you”-attitude and are in constant defense mode. They join a thread in order to make a good conversation impossible. As soon as they are confronted with good reasoning and hit a wall, it gets dirty and cheap. ‘I’m above name calling, but you are xyz.’

Look at blueLanders response above. After these guys destroyed a very good discussion with below-the-beltline accusations and dumb and pointless responses, now it is ‘Let’s bury the hatchet and act like adults, we don’t need another flame war...BUT I wouldn’t have taken you seriously anyway.’ :) Isn’t that like a childish apology of a ten year old bully? ‘I’m so sorry that I hit him... but he deserved somehow.’

I don’t take these guys too seriously anyway; however, what really bothers me is that they make good threads impossible with their intolerant attitude. And then a site like DP becomes less attractive, and in the long run will loose posters if these guys run amok.

I wished reasonable guys would chime in sometimes and told them how ridiculous their attitude is. They might try then to produce a minimum of fairness and common sense -- at least it would prevent them from destroying good threads.

lendelin
02-21-2008, 02:13 PM
Hey now. Don't look at me. I didn't dig 'er up. I just happened to trip over the corpse. :D

No, not at all. I liked your posts, they were very reasonable, you made very clear why the Wii is attractive and the game system for you. I think it is one of THE most important reasons the Wii is so successful. Gamers grew up, they have families and less time to invest in gaming, and moreover they want to play WITH their family. All things which were neglected in the last ten years when gaming become more of a peer group affair and took away time for the entire family.

I praised this achievement of the Wii, and the fact to bring new gamers (women, older age groups) to the videogame table, and moreover the incredible instant access of the Wii remote to such an extent that blissfulnoise even called me an “apologist” of the Wii.

But I see severe flaws of the Wii, and this is just an unforgiveable sin - for some. :)

lendelin
02-22-2008, 03:50 AM
Since this is a thread about courageous predictions, I'd like to add another one which foretells gamings future over the next ten years. I hope this thread never dies. :)


I don't like making any crazy predictions, but I think more sophisticated motion controls will be as ubiquitous in 2018 as 3D graphics were in 2006, and traditional controls will be as superceded as 2D graphics are by 3D ones. I wouldn't be suprised if the next generation of gamers will look at a 360 control the same way kids these days look at an Atari joystick - as a relic.

The prediction is based on...


And I base my personal opinion on the future of motion controls on the reaction by the public to the wii, not on the wii itself or its first 16 months games or it's wiimote.

Let's see in four years how accurate the prediction was.

djbeatmongrel
02-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Everything you say is right Lendelin.

lendelin
02-22-2008, 10:57 AM
Everything you say is right Lendelin.

Ah, and this from a guy who immediately calls others "single-minded" as soon as they critique Wii games.

I think you are a role model of tolerance. I am not allowed to quote something current while you referrred to an almost three year old quote?

I didn't say anything, I merely quoted a prediction. Do you want to shoot me or put a noose around my neck? :)

djbeatmongrel
02-22-2008, 11:04 AM
I wasnt going to reply but I was saying that towards the messages you posted today. You did post those today didn't you?

lendelin
02-22-2008, 11:25 AM
I wasnt going to reply but I was saying that towards the messages you posted today. You did post those today didn't you?

I said something about Wii motion sensing, yep. Since Wirestone, Blue Lander and you react so aggressively towards dissenting opinions, even resurrect with fake Ids old threads, I didn't have the courage to express mine; I thought if I share your opinion I don't have to be afraid so much and you guys take the aggression level down two...three...or four...notches. Was I wrong? I assure you that I had the best intentions.

mnbren05
02-22-2008, 11:31 AM
So yeah interesting thread...the Wii and motion controls how bout that... You think the Wii has provided the necessary technology to make Lesiure Suit Larry even more work out for the wrist?

lendelin
02-22-2008, 11:38 AM
So yeah interesting thread...the Wii and motion controls how bout that... You think the Wii has provided the necessary technology to make Lesiure Suit Larry even more work out for the wrist?

Absolutely. Well paced rhythmic hand and body motions are very important to reach the climax (of gameplay). It is also very relaxing and helps to decrease tensions...AND you loose weight, too!

Wouldn't it be great to implement Wii Fit into a Leisure Suit Larry game? The possibilities are endless.

esquire
02-22-2008, 11:40 AM
So yeah interesting thread...the Wii and motion controls how bout that... You think the Wii has provided the necessary technology to make Lesiure Suit Larry even more work out for the wrist?

I'm "holding out" for a sequel to Bubble Bath Babes on the Wii.

GrandAmChandler
02-22-2008, 11:46 AM
Guys this thread is Dead. Let it go.

Locked.

-GAC-