'Atari(R) Flashback 2.0' Announced....

[Steve W]

http://www.atari.com/games/atari_flashback2_plus

Looks like Atari is going back into production on a new Flashback, this time called Flashback 2+. It'll only be $29.99, and come with an XL T-shirt. So, whattaya think?

[Akito01]

I made the mistake of passing the FB2 up the first time around, so I'll definitely get this one, especially if it is as mod-able as people imply (curious that they don't go that one extra step and include a cartridge slot in there somewhere).

[swlovinist]

http://www.atari.com/games/atari_flashback2_plus

Looks like Atari is going back into production on a new Flashback, this time called Flashback 2+. It'll only be $29.99, and come with an XL T-shirt. So, whattaya think?

I recommend anyone who wants to see the daylight of Flashback 3 to pick the Flashback 2+ up. For the price, you are going to get an Atari Product and an Atari T shirt under $50 shipped. Here is the link to the atariage thread that has alot of inside info on the project.


http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/156823-flashback-2-for-preorder-on-ataricom-get-a-free-t-shirt/

[boatofcar]

http://www.atari.com/games/atari_flashback2_plus

Looks like Atari is going back into production on a new Flashback, this time called Flashback 2+. It'll only be $29.99, and come with an XL T-shirt. So, whattaya think?

I thought you meant an XL T shirt. Like, Atari XL. Maybe woulda gotten one then.

[goldenegg]

I'd love to get one, but they're not allowing orders from Hong Kong :bawling:

I won't be moving back to Canada for a year, so this is quite upsetting. Hopefully there will be a way for me to get one. Anyone know another source?

[megasdkirby]

One of the products you selected has been excluded from purchase in your country.

Please use your browser's "Back" button, and select a different product.

Figures. Retards at Atari. :(

[stonic]

So they drop 5 games...
Atari Climber
Caverns of Mars
Pitfall
River Raid
Wizard

... and added 5 different games (all sports titles)...
Double Dunk
RS Boxing
RS Soccer
Super Baseball
Super Football

... but didn't bother fixing any of the major emulation problems with it? They've had 5 YEARS! There's nothing "plus" about it. It's simply yet another revision of the same damn thing. Oh, and they fixed up Lunar Lander and Yars' Return? Well since both suck anyway (and YR is fundamentally flawed), why not include John Champeau's version of Lunar Lander and drop Yars' Return for something original (i.e. not hacked), along with all the other b.s. hacks of Adventure and Asteroids? Then maybe it would be worthy of the "plus" label. Here's a list of possible replacements:

Air-Sea Battle
Basketball
Canyon Bomber
Circus Atari
Crystal Castles
Desert Falcon
Gravitar
Night Driver
Sky Diver
Sprintmaster
Stunt Cycle
Submarine Commander
Super Breakout
Surround
Video Olympics (take off Arcade Pong, since it's buggy anyway)

[betamax001]

They took off the only 2 games that I actually really enjoy, Pitfall and River Raid. Too shame. How about an Atari Flashback 3 that has all the built in games, but with cartridge slot? It could just be an Atari Clone Out of the box! Id buy that for 30 bucks. Especially if it kept its A/V cable output.

[Leo_A]

I doubt any of this will satisfy Stonic, but this was a very last minute project done in haste primarily for General Mills. There was no time to license games from a company like Activision. Climber 5 had unknown copyright issues that Atari was unaware of until after the first Flashback 2 was released (From the copyright owners of Compute magazine I think, which did the original Climber games). There was no time to send the revised chips to the plant to China, but this does use the last revision that saw production the last time around (So the voice in Quadrun works for example). The current hardware does it well enough anyways without major issues.

The fixed versions of Lunar Lander and Yars' Return are, as far as I'm aware, redone from scratch so the jury is still out on that and I expect they will be fun games. I doubt Curt would've sought someone out in the AA communuity to work on them that didn't know what they were doing. And they both have great source material to work from (The great arcade original of Lunar Lander and the 2600 classic for the Yars' Revenge sequel). Curt also had someone redo Asteroids Deluxe, but apparantly time ran out with this last minute project to come to an agreement with the author of that game and get the binary included with this release.

Many of your suggested replacements are odd suggestions. There's a reason why paddle games aren't headlining either the original Flashback 2 or this new release; there's no set of paddles included. They're fine for hidden games, but they needed joystick titles to take up the dropped titles and the sports theme was a easy one to go with.

There's no cartridge slot because 99% of those purchasing it don't have 2600 cartridges. And Atari has no desire for it's customer support line to be taking care of calls from those that dig out old cartridges from their attic and wonder why they can't get them working. The product is aimed at the general public, not the several hundred classic gamers that keep the 2600 alive and already have the means to play the original carts.

[Enigmus]

They took off the only 2 games that I actually really enjoy, Pitfall and River Raid. Too shame. How about an Atari Flashback 3 that has all the built in games, but with cartridge slot? It could just be an Atari Clone Out of the box! Id buy that for 30 bucks. Especially if it kept its A/V cable output.


Add those two back in and butter up Namco (and possibly Nintendo and whoever owns Frogger) enough to include Ms. Pac Man, Pole Position and Galaxian and other good Atari games instead of Wizard and those piss-poor Haunted House, Adventure and Pong hacks and I'd buy it.

Also, do commercials meant as a throwback to the "Have You Played Atari Today" and 2600 Jr. ones and it'll be perfect. LOL

That, and a Flashback 5200 with both cart ports built in and with spring-loaded sticks would be perfect.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Figures. Retards at Atari. :(

Silly Portorican, your money is not worth anything to them! It's Fake Dollars!

[stonic]

I doubt any of this will satisfy Stonic

Damn right, not when once again, no real effort was made to correct problems that were known 5 years ago. I still have no desire to buy one, so why should my opinion about it change now?


this was a very last minute project done in haste primarily for General Mills.

And yet they had time to replace 5 games, and add updated versions to 2 others, not to mention design new packaging and manuals.

Here's a thought - if there isn't enough time to make it right, then DON'T DO IT. Otherwise prepare to deal with the criticism.



There was no time to license games from a company like Activision

Which really shouldn't have been on there to begin with.


Climber 5 had unknown copyright issues that Atari was unaware of until after the first Flashback 2 was release (From the copyright owners of Compute magazine I think, which did the original Climber games).

Which Dennis mentioned as far back as May 2003 (http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/25887-). He might have mentioned it earlier, since he started it in 2002.


There was no time to send the revised chips to the plant to China

:roll:



The fixed versions of Lunar Lander and Yars' Return are, as far as I'm aware, redone from scratch so the jury is still out on that

IIRC Dennis Debro did his best to make them as stable (framerate-wise) as he could and they were ready to go in time for the last production run, but again... that didn't happen. I think he also was the one to help fix Asteroids Deluxe.


And they both have great source material to work from (The great arcade original of Lunar Lander

And yet it turned out f'n awful (as did Yars' Return). Yeah, drag that FB out and TRY to play them. Besides, I highly doubt any source code from the coin-op Lunar Lander was used. John Champeau was actually commissioned to fix it, and ended up doing a complete rewrite of it (which is excellent), and it was completed in time for the last run, but again wasn't used.



Many of your suggested replacements are odd suggestions.

You mean like including 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe, or Hangman, or Human Cannonball, or Space War, or Video Chess, or multiple hacks of Adventure and Asteroids? LOL Hardly.


There's a reason why paddle games aren't headlining either the original Flashback 2 or this new release; there's no set of paddles included.

And yet I remember seeing a photo of a redesigned paddle somewhere. I guess they ran out of time to include those too...

Whatever, I removed the 6 paddles games from my list:

Air-Sea Battle
Basketball
Crystal Castles
Desert Falcon
Gravitar
Sky Diver
Sprintmaster
Submarine Commander
Surround

These are either original games or Atari coin-op titles. Nothing odd about them :) And games like Air-Sea Battle and Sky Diver should have been a no-brainer to be included.


They're fine for hidden games, but they needed joystick titles

So why not hack them to use a joystick? A pirate version of Circus Atari has been circulating for years. They had no problem paying someone to go out of their way to make a joystick version of Pong, or hacking Adventure, Asteroids, and Yars' Revenge to pieces. Why not have someone work on finishing up VCS Tempest, instead of wasting their time bastardizing classics?


There's no cartridge slot because 99% of those purchasing it don't have 2600 cartridges...

Which are still easy enough to obtain from Ebay, or Craigslist, or stores like Digital Press, or any number of classic gaming message boards.


Atari has no desire for it's customer support line to be taking care of calls from those that dig out old cartridges from their attic and wonder why they can't get them working.

Which is it? 99% of people buying them don't have any carts, or they have them in their attic and they're dirty? :)

Atari has no desire to make a worthy product. How many bad VCS carts have you come across? I've had hundreds and hundreds of carts pass through my hands. I'm overestimating when I say I've come across a dozen that were flat-out bad. How hard is it to state in the manual if you come across a cart that doesn't work to try cleaning the edge connector, and if it still doesn't work then chances are the cart is bad and a replacement is needed... because as you said, most people likely have had them in their basement or attic for decades.

The Flashback team has had like 5 cracks at this thing now, in 5 years. Very little has changed with it, and some of the built-in games remain unplayable. This is because people such as yourself continue to PAY for it, thus ensuring more flawed product will follow. Doesn't really matter to me b/c until it's fixed, they're not getting my money. So spare me the excuses. I'll just continue to use a real system and voice my opinion. I doubt you'll like hearing it, though. Oh well.

[agent57]

Well Stonic, as usual since the day we've met, I find myself in agreement with just about every point you've raised here. Yeah, maybe we are fussy but goddamnit, I am still waiting for someone to do something like this RIGHT. In my opinion, the 2-paddle Jaxx controller is still the high water mark here.

I don't really care to get involved in a prick-waving contest over the new FB2 but I do feel the need to express my quite-well-informed opinion that the selection of games on this thing is, to quote Ritchie Ashburn when he used to call Phillies games, "Questionable at best."

[Leo_A]

Besides, I highly doubt any source code from the coin-op Lunar Lander was used. John Champeau was actually commissioned to fix it, and ended up doing a complete rewrite of it (which is excellent), and it was completed in time for the last run, but again wasn't used.

I never said any original code was used. I was talking about the inspiration for the game, which is the arcade original that is being recreated on 2600 hardware.

If John Champeau was commissioned to rewrite Lunar Lander and it was so excellent, why are you being critical of it at the same time? The improved versions of Lunar Lander and Yars' Revenge are what is going to be included on this.

As for most of your other points, it's not worth the time. Especially when you've never even tried out the first one. Some of what you wrote is just nonsense, like your suggestion they hack paddle games to use the joystick controller.

Edit - A member of Legacy Engineering was kind enough to clarify a few things for me. The finalized chip with all of the necessary chip corrections (Three of them, not five), which were needed because of the manufacturer correcting things in good faith (Such as the horizontal positioning lines you see in a game like Missile Command being hidden due to the people in China not realizing accuracy was the original goal and those quirks should be in there), weren't used due to the budget General Mills put in place for this limited run. It wasn't due to time constraints as I incorrectly stated with my first post, but because of the goal to keep cost to a minumum (No changes to chip frabrication, the stick design, etc.).



And yet they had time to replace 5 games, and add updated versions to 2 others, not to mention design new packaging and manuals.

The only changes are cosmetic. Gone is that horrible redesigned Fuji logo for example. Also, the game selection is changed (As everyone knows), which doesn't increase the manufacturing cost.

You're so dead set on accuracy that you'll blast this project, I again state that I'm puzzled why you want things like paddle games hacked to use a joystick. Seems more like you just want to complain and criticize. Subbing in great games that are made unplayable by your hacking idea is a stupid idea. If they had done such a thing, you'd be on here whining that they modified the code and ruined some great games.



Which really shouldn't have been on there to begin with.

You really do just want to complain. How on Earth is the licensed inclusion of River Raid and Pitfall on the original Flashback 2 a mistake?



And yet I remember seeing a photo of a redesigned paddle somewhere. I guess they ran out of time to include those too.

It's a $30 piece of electronics. Be at least somewhat reasonable. What would be your next complaint if they had been included? Whine because there are no Indy 500 controller's and a keypad included?


Which is it? 99% of people buying them don't have any carts, or they have them in their attic and they're dirty?

It's both, they're not mutually exclusive. Most buyers won't have any original cartridges to use on this. And the few that do will likely be ignorant on why they can't get them working after being left to gather dust and grime for decades in storage. It's not in Atari's best interest to increase manufacturing cost (And in turn, the unit price of this device) and increase support cost just to include the hardware and capability that will be used by just a few hundred people at most. The ability to modify it is there for those that want a cart slot.



Very little has changed with it, and some of the built-in games remain unplayable. This is because people such as yourself continue to PAY for it, thus ensuring more flawed product will follow?

The Flashback 2 has been out of production for 4 years, myself and others haven't continued to pay for anything. I've purchased 1 Flashback 2, and I've ordered this rerelease because it has been improved. I'm looking forward to seeing the improved versions of Lunar Lander and Yars' Return, getting two more of those nice joysticks, and supporting this effort. Legacy Engineering is a very skilled bunch and I'd love to see Atari pick up some of their other projects like that handheld 2600 in the future. That's why I bought another.

Your trolling to overstate the hardware issues of the original FB2 doesn't do anyone any good except make yourself feel good.

[stonic]

Never said any original code was used. I was talking about the inspiration for the game.

Well then be more clear about what you're saying when you say:


And they both have great source material to work from (The great arcade original of Lunar Lander and the 2600 classic for the Yars' Revenge sequel).

..considering the fact that Yars' Return uses the source code from Yars' Revenge.



If John Champeau was commissioned to rewrite Lunar Lander and it was so excellent, why are you being critical of it at the same time.

:? I'm being critical of the version that was included on the FB2. I don't know about the FB+ yet because (1) it isn't out yet, and (2) nobody involved with it has specifically stated the "fixed" version of Lunar Lander is Champeau's. And as I already stated, he didn't fix the game, he started over and rewrote it. If it is his version, that's like saying Pac-Man was fixed by releasing Ms. Pac-Man.

And again, Yars' Return can't be "fixed" because it's a mess of a game. Even Yars' Revenge creator Howard Scott Warshaw said as much. The only way to "fix" it is to remove it.


As for most of your other points, it's not worth the time. Especially when you've never even tried out the first one.

There you go, assuming things again. I did try it. Every game. I even hacked a cart port in one for someone...

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66468

... and tried dozens more, which helped in compiling this list of incompatibility problems:

http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/pnpflashback2.htm


Some of what you wrote is just nonsense, like your suggestion they hack paddle games to use the joystick controller.

No, it makes perfect sense. Atari VCS designers made design compromises all the time, especially when concerning arcade ports. How was it good enough then but not now? Coin-op Asteroids didn't use a joystick. Neither did Asteroids Deluxe, or Space Duel, or Centipede, or Pong, or... Are you getting the point yet? Probably not, because you seem to think it makes perfect sense to include 3 different versions of Adventure (2 of them being hacks) and 3 different hacked versions of Asteroids on it (none of which as it turns out are 100% the same as the original version). The only nonsense in this discussion is your biased opinion of the FB2, which is something I commented on years ago. The only excuse you and Atari really have this time around is, "We didn't have time... we were rushed". Like any owner or potential customer wants to hear that. Didn't work for E.T. back in the day. :) Not gonna work now.

[atarimuseum]

I think Scott in some of his points is right. I too am not really happy to only have a 30 day window to update a product, especially when nearly 10 of those days is going through reviews and approvals for items.

Scott is totally entitled to state his opinion, I don't personally agree with all of it, but then that of course is chalked up to some bias in being involved with the product I suppose.

It would be nice however if Scott corrected his FAQ - for instance he has a misleading and totally false statement that Carlos Lopez and I had exchanged VHDL chip code. We both contacted Joe Santulli on two occasions in group emails to Joe asking that the Faq by corrected and Scott has had several years to correct it, but still hasn't. So I guess we are both at fault for not correcting a several year old design.

Also Scott -- you did a roll your eye on updating the chip design. I don't know you background, but perhaps you are not aware of what it takes to have a chip fabricated, its not like burning eprom. Having a new die made for a new chip costs $80K-$120K before a run can be made. Even a company like Atari doesn't always want to open its purse strings for something like that. This run is a very small run, I think they are only making 15,000 for General Mills and the direct sales and then later in the summer to do large runs for Walmart & Target, but from what I've heard, it may only be 150,000 units in total - thats nearly $1 per unit cost, which is a lot on a $30 retail product.

You also have other incorrect assumptions in some of your other posts, you are very welcome to email me anytime to talk about it - I don't bite and I've let go the transgressions from you from the past, so bygones be bygones --- I've had a lot happen to me in the last year and half and the fact is life is way too short to be petty and bitter, so feel free to email me, and I'll answer any of your questions. curt.vendel@legacyengineer.com

Regards,
Curt

[stonic]

It would be nice however if Scott corrected his FAQ - for instance he has a misleading and totally false statement that Carlos Lopez and I had exchanged VHDL chip code.

It would be even nicer if you admitted to who wrote the FB emulator:

http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archives/200309/msg00238.html Carlos finished his program in fall 2003 and…
http://www.biglist.com/cgi-bin/wilma/wilma_hiliter/stella/200309/msg00246.html ... was in negotiations for its use in a com.product
http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archives/200208/msg00156.html Curt sent Carlos the TIA schematics to use in writing it
http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archives/200208/msg00240.html Carlos’s emu has a problem with Cosmic Ark
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/75267- FB2 has the exact same problem with Cosmic Ark

Someone else involved at that time felt Carlo's work went into the FB, but not being directly involved with the FB, he couldn't say for certain. Are we simply reading between the lines, and it's nothing more than coincidental timing between Carlo's work and the creation of the FB? I don't think so.


...but perhaps you are not aware of what it takes to have a chip fabricated, its not like burning eprom. Having a new die made for a new chip costs $80K-$120K before a run can be made....

The consumer doesn't know or care about the process behind it - all they see is the final product, and all I see is the same flawed product that was released in no less than 4 different versions before. Did people care that Warshaw had less than 6 weeks to make E.T., or that Atari paid way too much for the license? No. All they want is a good product, so I suggest stop wasting time handing out excuses, and either fix the product or stop being involved with it.


So I guess we are both at fault for not correcting a several year old design.


... I've let go the transgressions from you from the past...

.. and I've come to expect nothing less than smart-ass comments like this from you, which is why any conversation I have with you will remain out in the open for all to see (and I've told you that before). Sorry, but you're not going to be protected and coddled here like you are on Atariage. Nice try there, btw, of trying to draw a comparison with what you feel is incorrect information on a web page to the problems with the FB. I guess, much like the FB, some people really don't change over time. :(

[atarimuseum]

It would be even nicer if you admitted to who wrote the FB emulator:

Someone else involved at that time felt Carlo's work went into the FB, but not being directly involved with the FB, he couldn't say for certain. Are we simply reading between the lines, and it's nothing more than coincidental timing between Carlo's work and the creation of the FB? I don't think so.

Hi Scott, yes, I admit it - I wrote the VHDL code for the FB2 chip. I was the one who found the original schem's, Carlos apparently did get a set from me, I made 20 copies which people bought from me, and then they were posted up so everyone could access them.

All that anyone ever saw of Carlo's work was his video demo, , running several demo's. I see the links you posted, so he was in talks/negotiations, the only "talks" or "negotiations" I can state for a fact is he spoke with the then head of licensing at Atari while FB2 was already 4 months into the TIA design and sent the head of licensing that video demo file, and it was passed to me to watch - I may still have that video - either way, Carlos and I both stated that your information was and still is - incorrect, in no way did Carlos use any of my VHDL, nor did I use any of his. So you thinking or someone else thinking that is might be involved, isn't faq Scott, common - you're a lot more diligent then that, I've read much of your work and you should be getting your info directly from the sources - speak with Carlos if you want as well, you should've done that in the first place.





The consumer doesn't know or care about the process behind it - all they see is the final product, and all I see is the same flawed product that was released in no less than 4 different versions before. Did people care that Warshaw had less than 6 weeks to make E.T., or that Atari paid way too much for the license? No. All they want is a good product, so I suggest stop wasting time handing out excuses, and either fix the product or stop being involved with it.


To say I'm wasting time? Come on, again - your being rather overly harsh don't you think? A lot of people are happy to see that another product is coming out, this was for a cereal promotion originally, please look at the bigger picture and factor that in, its not an excuse - its an explanation. Also - if you wish to be so judging of others - then come at from a peer point of view - when you develop a product on your own, we'll discuss it, but calm it down there and relax.




.. and I've come to expect nothing less than smart-ass comments like this from you, which is why any conversation I have with you will remain out in the open for all to see (and I've told you that before). Sorry, but you're not going to be protected and coddled here like you are on Atariage. Nice try there, btw, of trying to draw a comparison with what you feel is incorrect information on a web page to the problems with the FB. I guess, much like the FB, some people really don't change over time. :(


There were nothing smartass at all in that Scott, it was an honest open statement to you. Lets be very honest here, you have spent years upon years pulling a lot of underhanded shenanigan's, the last of which - your Wikipedia debacle not only got you caught, but in the end hurt Joe and Digital Press, so come on, lets be serious here, okay.

I'm publicly coming over here - and saying to you - you don't have to do this stuff anymore Scott, everyone else moved on, even John Hardie and I have exchanged pleasantries. Don't you think the silliness has gone on way too long enough, I definitely do and everyone else has.

BTW - so what's your review and opinion on the Jakks Pacific re-release of their 10 games joystick? You know its been released again - they just updated the packaging on it, but they never had even 1 correction ever to their product, it is the same games as they first delivered in 1999.

Hope this is a start to some good and positive exchanges between us Scott, I would enjoy some good conversations without the confrontations. Be well and stay in touch.


Curt

[BetaWolf47]

Definitely interested in a Flashback 2+. Does anybody know if the Flashback controllers work any better than the Atari Plug N Play TV system? I got one of those at a flea market last year and it's unplayable.

[Carey85]

Definitely interested in a Flashback 2+. Does anybody know if the Flashback controllers work any better than the Atari Plug N Play TV system? I got one of those at a flea market last year and it's unplayable.

I think the Flashback 2 controllers are superior to the original 2600 joysticks, in my personal opinion. The joystick shaft can be loosened to allow more travel when necessary, which comes in handy on games like Activision Skiing and the like. One problem I have noticed, however, is that the shaft and threaded male end are two separate pieces held together with a couple of dabs of super glue. Unfortunately, my 7 year old nephew (who is very rough on things) has managed to break 3 of the sticks, which have been easily repaired by replacing the old, brittle glue. I haven't seen the FB2+ in action yet, but I would consider it very likely that the joystick issue has been addressed.

[stonic]

Hi Scott, yes, I admit it - I wrote the VHDL code for the FB2 chip.

That's hard to believe, considering you can't even program a game (and hacking doesn't qualify as programming). But whatever... say what you want, and believe what you want. I'll do the same.



Lets be very honest here, you have spent years upon years pulling a lot of underhanded shenanigan's...

As expected, I knew it wouldn't be long before you started playing that angle and tried to make it personal. I've made my apologies to people for things that I've done; unfortunately the same people who've said and done things to me didn't reciprocate. So be it. But as we all know, you've never pulled any nonsense on anybody in this hobby... right? You're just a fine, upstanding pillar of honesty... who happens to have a criminal record. You can stop trying to turn my opinions about the FB into a personal slag against you. You're surrounded by glass. Put down your rocks.


Hope this is a start to some good and positive exchanges between us.

I don't see how that's possible. I haven't seen any marked change in your personality. In my opinion you're still the same manipulative, ego-driven person I've always known you to be.

[atarimuseum]

Well, coding hardware and firmware is a lot different then games and I've always admitted I'm more of a hardware guy, and I think I did a decent job on Adventure II as my first game, definitely not a perfect rewrite from the original Adventure source code, but it was still a good game overall, do you feel it was THAT bad was it? ;-)

So yeah, you can think what you want to think and that's okay Scott.

You've always been a very confrontational guy Scott, but I'm giving you an open here, in fact two I think. So consider the door wide open, you just have to be brave enough to boldly step through, and leave your issues on the hook as you come on in. Again, look forward to chatting more in the future and putting ALL things behind us...

You just gotta calm down dude. You always seem like you are on an angry defensive or on the offensive. Just relax man, things are good, life is good - and best of all, videogames are VERY good, so enjoy.

Who cares of bitter rivalry silliness, cause that's just what is was, silliness, as Danny Glover says "I'm getting too old for this sh*t" ;-)

Be well and don't be a stranger! I love your articles and your work, if you need to tap into some serious resources, get in contact and I'll share some great materials with you for some of your future projects.


Curt


That's hard to believe, considering you can't even program a game (and hacking doesn't qualify as programming). But whatever... say what you want, and believe what you want. I'll do the same.




As expected, I knew it wouldn't be long before you started playing that angle and tried to make it personal. I've made my apologies to people for things that I've done; unfortunately the same people who've said and done things to me didn't reciprocate. So be it. But as we all know, you've never pulled any nonsense on anybody in this hobby... right? You're just a fine, upstanding pillar of honesty... who happens to have a criminal record. You can stop trying to turn my opinions about the FB into a personal slag against you. You're surrounded by glass. Put down your rocks.



I don't see how that's possible. I haven't seen any marked change in your personality. In my opinion you're still the same manipulative, ego-driven person I've always known you to be.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Definitely interested in a Flashback 2+. Does anybody know if the Flashback controllers work any better than the Atari Plug N Play TV system? I got one of those at a flea market last year and it's unplayable.

I'll second the love for the 2600 controllers included with the Flashback 2. I think they work great and I dig the removable stick.

The original Flashback 2 IS worth modding, but sadly it's not by any stretch of the imagination fully compatible with a great selection of games ... lots of "classics" don't work correctly or have graphical issues.

Still worth modding to have a small footprint, AV out 2600, and it works great with the Sean Kelly 2600 multicart, which I've found to be problematic with some standard model 2600s, including the Jr.

[Lady Jaye]

There are two things I'd like to know about the FB2+: why not bring back Solaris, which was in the first Flashback but not FB2? And will FB2+ actually have a button that allows the player to go back to the main menu without having to hit the power button?

[BetaWolf47]

I'm curious as to why this is called the Flashback 2+ and not the Flashback 3.0...

[atarimuseum]

It should've had Solaris, we were focusing on the Sports Arena and I didn't think about seeing about trying to get Solaris in, my bad.

First thing I wanted was a hard reset, there is actually one on the board, I need to go dig up my notes and find where the heck the contact point are again. I wanted to have a Menu button, but that meant changing the plastics - which is a 30 day change and would've been a tooling charge from the factory and Atari wanted no hardware change expenses on this version since it is a low run.

You'll notice that the graphics all have the fuji changed to the original "Real" Atari fuji, however the plastics on the joysticks and the underside of the console still have the InfoFuji on them, it would've required a change to the tooling to either remove them and retexture or redo the logo to the real fuji. No time, no budget - so they are still the same on the plastics.


Curt


There are two things I'd like to know about the FB2+: why not bring back Solaris, which was in the first Flashback but not FB2? And will FB2+ actually have a button that allows the player to go back to the main menu without having to hit the power button?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm curious as to why this is called the Flashback 2+ and not the Flashback 3.0...

That's the long in development portable unit.

[agent57]

So you're saying that someday I can play 3d-Tic-Tac-Toe and Human Cannonball on the go? Sign me up now...

[skaar]

Neato.

[stonic]

So yeah, you can think what you want to think and that's okay.

Yep, it'll have to be. :)


You've always been a very confrontational guy... You just gotta calm down dude. You always seem like you are on an angry defensive or on the offensive.

You know me soo well, don't you? :roll:

No, that's just how you've always attempted to portray me. Again, this is typical behaviour for you, and a perfect example of how you haven't changed one bit. You insult people one moment, and compliment them the next. I'm outspoken and opinionated. Some people, such as yourself, don't like that (damn those free-thinking spirits of the world...). If you're going to start hanging out here, then you'll just have to deal with it.



I'm giving you an open here, in fact two I think. So consider the door wide open, you just have to be brave enough to boldly step through, and leave your issues on the hook as you come on in.

.. said the person dragging a steamer trunk of issues ..

Wow, how generous of you to offer lifting the velvet rope and allowing me to enter your little clubhouse. Gee, how can I pass that up?

Guess you didn't get the memo- I don't need or want your help. I never did. So go "bravely" kiss someone else's ass, stop wasting my and everyone else's time with your nonsense in this thread, and get back on topic.

[Carey85]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4323189412_15d0dd5561_o.jpg

By the way, I'm sensing a little bit of tension between you two.

[agent57]

Neato.

Yes, I completely agree with that point - you're right.

But...can we honestly call a spade a spade here? Even those people who had just a passing interest in the 2600 back then will still know the shitty games from the good ones and wouldn't play them for more than 10 seconds - back then OR today. Trust me. I've sold more than a fair amount of 2600s to people who literally haven't touched one in 20 years but they still remembered that the 2 games I mentioned earlier, as well as many of the other selections on the FB were pieces of shit as they went through my piles of carts. NOBODY from the old days is dying to play an Atari bad enough again to sit through those pieces of crap. So if it's "not for us" (even though we old-schoolers probably account for 90% of the sales) and with a game selection which is going to excite absolutely no one, who exactly IS the target market for this thing?

And stop with the "chill" comments - Jesus, excuse me for having an opinion.

[Carey85]

Even those people who had just a passing interest in the 2600 back then will still know the shitty games from the good ones and wouldn't play them for more than 10 seconds - back then OR today.

Pretty much every swinging dick that knows that I'm into Atari asks me whether or not I can sell them a 2600 with Pac-Man. I've developed an involuntary facepalm reflex as a result.

[skaar]

And stop with the "chill" comments - Jesus, excuse me for having an opinion.

Jesus had a NES.

[agent57]

Jesus had a NES.

Yeah and even HE hated Bible Adventures.

Ok, sorry for the OT guys...back to...whatever it is you guys were doing in this thread.

We were just getting to the point where Scott was going to try Decaf. ;-)

[atarimuseum]

Yep, it'll have to be. :)



You know me soo well, don't you? :roll:


I'm outspoken and opinionated. Some people, such as yourself, don't like that (damn those free-thinking spirits of the world...). If you're going to start hanging out here, then you'll just have to deal with it.



Actually --- I LOVE IT! :) .... so, lets jump back a bit, because since we now know your views on the FB 2+, lets hear your outspoken and opinionated views and opinions on the re-release of the Jakks Pacific Atari 10in1 joystick:

http://www.jakkstvgames.com/atari.html

They've updated the packaging, now in its 3-4 iteration of packaging, but in 10 years they've never addressed or corrected in any way shape or form, all of the massive shortcomings in all of their games included with it.

Also, I'd still like to hear your outspoken and opinionated views and opinions on Adventure II which I wrote, you said I'm not a good programmer (I'm not a horrible one - I personally think) - so what exactly was so bad about my work on ADV II - how would you have done it better, lets hear from your coding experience, how you would've made a better Adventure II?

Now, you've listed so many things you don't like about the FB2 (and apparently the FB2+) -- is there anything that you like about them?

Inquiring outspoken and opinionated minds want to know :)


Curt

[TheDomesticInstitution]

2600 Pac-Man

Great game. You don't have a spare do you? I can't seem to find a copy.

[Steve W]

To derail the subject slightly and get away from the arguments here for a bit, I will happily buy a portable Atari Flashback 2 console. It would be nice if it could really be pumped up with games, in place of a cartridge slot.

Some old games have passed into public domain, haven't they? Considering their parent companies died off and didn't sell the intellectual property to anyone. I was wondering how many games Atari could conceptually pool together taking into account abandoned titles and games that reverted to Atari, like the Epyx titles. Does anyone have a list?

[Leo_A]

The rights to any game of any significance from the major and well known publishers of 2600 games are clearly not in the public domain.

Enough time hasn't lapsed for any of these to have entered the public domain anyways so the copyrights remain valid (See my link below). Games from Atari, Mattel, Imagic, Coleco, Starpath, Activision, Sega, Parker Brothers, FOX, CBS (I once heard the rights to those games went with the programmers when they ended game development, so I could be wrong), Konami, etc., are still all clearly owned by going concerns.

And these major companies represent the bulk of the 2600's library, the best titles, and the games most likely to be remembered and matter to a potential Flashback buyer. About the only major company I can think of whose library might in limbo might be Apollo, but that's just because I don't know who might retain the rights to those games. I'm also unaware of who owns the US Games library, but I'm sure it's not abandoned and is probably owned by the Quaker Oats Company.

For most any game from small and obscure publishers that were sold in limited numbers and are largely forgotten with their developer/publisher having disappeared, how would Atari know there isn't a person sitting out there today that holds the the copyright and keeps a eye on the classic gaming scene and might catch wind of it? The risk of an expensive lawsuit isn't worth the benefits of the inclusion of a game that is forgotten and probably not very good. These large corporations pay their lawyers to prevent copyright infringement to prevent lawsuits. They're not about to take a bet, however safe, that a game is free for the taking. The risk far outweighs the reward.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/302.html

[Enigmus]

Believe it or not, these things look cool and play nearly as good when a rubber hood from a broken 2600 controller. Just remove the broken controller's hood, break the stick from the thread connector, put a two-ended K'Nex connector with one of those smaller bits (or another plastic rod from something else cut to a certain length), and it plays pretty good, with the added bonus of an original VCS hood. I use it all the time on my 2600 Jr. due to my discomfort with the- ugh- mush-pressing red button on the old sticks. I played Defender for the VCS just now with it, and it's a good controller modification. This'll give some people something to do with broken VCS/2600 sticks.

[digitalpress]

PING! This thread just hit my radar.

Scott and Curt. Boys... play nice, OK? Spirited debate is always fun forum fodder, just don't get personal about it. 99% of the community doesn't know about your history, will now probably Google for every bit of it, and will still not really "get it". So for them, and ME, please keep it civil.

Thank you for your attention to this matter :)

[megasdkirby]

Silly Portorican, your money is not worth anything to them! It's Fake Dollars!

LOL But it's MY fake money! :)

Well, I think I will wait until it appears around here, or on Amazon with free shipping.

[Greg2600]

I already have the Flashback 2.0, so I won't be buying another. However, should Curt ever be able (and allowed by Atari) to develop a console that plays 2600/5200/XL/XE/7800 games, I would be all over that.

[Akito01]

This may not be helping the cause, but I ordered an original FB2 from Amazon Warehouse (Pitfall for the win). Since I successfully did the cap replacement to restore CD audio to my TurboDuo (YES!!), I'm feeling confident in my ability to pull off the mod to add a cartridge slot to the FB2. What I'm not sure of, though, is where I should go about getting the cartridge pin connector -is there a recommended dealer for Atari parts, or is there a generic kind of 24-pin connector that will work? Everything else I'm sure I can pick up at RadioShack.

[Steve W]

I already have the Flashback 2.0, so I won't be buying another. However, should Curt ever be able (and allowed by Atari) to develop a console that plays 2600/5200/XL/XE/7800 games, I would be all over that.

I can safely say that if there was a Flashback that included all those Atari consoles wrapped up in one package, pretty much all of us on this forum would be all over that. Throw in Lynx games into it and I'd probably murder for one.

[ubikuberalles]

http://www.atari.com/games/atari_flashback2_plus

Looks like Atari is going back into production on a new Flashback, this time called Flashback 2+. It'll only be $29.99, and come with an XL T-shirt. So, whattaya think?

ME WANT! I missed out on getting the Flashback 2 and I'm not missing out this time!

[MarioMania]

The link only goes to the atari site...

Where does it say about the Flashback 2+??

[Leo_A]

Orders have been closed, should've ordered earlier.

[Steve W]

I've been broke for weeks, and now that I've finally gotten a decent paycheck the Flashback 2+ is gone. Dammit.

[MarioMania]

What was the Flashback 2+ for??

Any new games on it??

7800 Games??

[Leo_A]

Not to be rude, but read the thread. It's been extensively discussed already in here.

As for anyone that missed out on it, they've mentioned being hopeful it will be carried by a couple of retailers (I think they've mentioned Target and Wal-Mart). So you might still be able to get one.

[john_soper]

I think it's great that the product even came out, their financial situation looked pretty dire a few years ago. Way to go

[rbudrick]

I've gotta say, I'm glad the FB2+ is coming out, as it keeps the hobby alive in the eyes of "normal" department store shoppers, but I'm really not interested in buying one. I have an original FB2, and I really don't see the appeal of what seems like a very negligible, slight upgrade (is it really an upgrade or a bug fix? Would some consider it a downgrade with the game list changes?).

Now, what I'm really craving is the portable FB3. I'll buy 5 of those. Right now.

Any news on that?

-Rob

[Greg2600]

If you want to follow the Atari Flashback stuff more closely, go to Atari Age here (http://www.atariage.com/forums/forum/69-atari-flashback-consoles/). It pretty certain that the designer Curt would continue developing these consoles, but Atari itself holds the license and they haven't been extremely interested. One thing about Atari of course is that is keeps changing ownership, so maybe now they're interested again?

[stonic]

Atari seems interested now, as they went with another company to develop and release the Flashback 3:

http://www.creativemindinteractive.com/prod/941/Atari_Flashback_3

[Oobgarm]

I like how the site offers "Addiotional Info", which is the same as the "Features".

[Graham Mitchell]

If they made one of these with paddle controllers I would be interested.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Atari seems interested now, as they went with another company to develop and release the Flashback 3:

http://www.creativemindinteractive.com/prod/941/Atari_Flashback_3

Hmm. This doesn't sound promising:

http://digthatbox.com/2011.06.12_arch.html#1308079740773

[Greg2600]

Yeah sounds like this is to be avoided at all costs. The lack of the SD card feature makes this thing pretty much worthless over the FB 2/2+.


Unfortunately we were not allowed to take pictures of the console itself. (Not that we didn't still try.) However we did take some shots of the box. We have since learned much of the information presented on the box is false. There is no SD card support, and the saving and loading feature has also been removed. SD card support was certainly an exciting and enticing feature of the new machine. We were told it was removed from the product because "retailers thought it would confuse consumers."

[stonic]

Doesn't sound any more or less worthless than the other models. Those didn't use SD cards either (and this model does have 20 more games built-in). Who knows whether or not the capability to add one is still possible. What's worthless is spending time guessing what it can and can't do. We'll have to wait until someone gets one and opens it up.

[Greg2600]

Who can trust that it actually has all those games? I find it very skeptical since some websites listed games that were on the FB 2, but removed from FB 2+ because they lost the license.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Doesn't sound any more or less worthless than the other models. Those didn't use SD cards either (and this model does have 20 more games built-in). Who knows whether or not the capability to add one is still possible. What's worthless is spending time guessing what it can and can't do. We'll have to wait until someone gets one and opens it up.

Fair enough, but the indication that they're not using the type of authentic 2600 programming/hardware that went into the Flashback 2 can only make me suspect that they're going to jam stuff on an NOAC again like they did with the first Flashback.

Though, you're right, time will tell. We'll see what happens if/when it is released.

[Icarus Moonsight]

Mentioning SD card support I thought Flashback+Flashcart in one box... Man, I am very disappointed. I still haven't put a cart slot on my FB2 (why I even got the thing initially), so I probably never will at this point.

[stonic]

Fair enough, but the indication that they're not using the type of authentic 2600 programming/hardware that went into the Flashback 2 ...

For one thing, it wasn't exactly authentic:

http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/pnpflashback2.htm



I still haven't put a cart slot on my FB2 (why I even got the thing initially), so I probably never will at this point.

It's not worth doing (see above link). Better of using a real system and a Harmony (http://harmony.atariage.com) (if you want SD support):

[Leo_A]

I really doubt this will get the care, love, and attention to detail that Legacy Engineering had provided with the Flashback 2. There were a few mistakes and a few problems out of their hands, but overall they were excellent products.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best, but I'd be shocked if this Flashback 3 is anything worth purchasing.

They should've licensed and released that portable 2600 that Legacy Engineering has prototyped and shown off for several years now. They'd have a winner with that, especially if SD support (Or some form of connecting it to a PC to add 2600 roms, I forget if it was actually a SD slot) was maintained from the prototype.

[stonic]

Considering all the issues (or what you're calling "care, love, and attention to detail") with the various Flashback models up until now, I'm all for someone else doing the next version. Even if it's running Z26 or Stella under the "hood", it would still better than anything else that's come out. Worst-case scenario is it ends up as bad as the original NOAC-based Flashback (which was a L.E. product, if you recall).

Again, let's wait and see what it is before making biased assumptions.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

For one thing, it wasn't exactly authentic:

http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/pnpflashback2.htm



By "authentic" I meant more functionally accurate than the NOAC-based Flashback 1.

I had my Flashback 2 cart-slotted (by Ben Heck no less!) and it does have some crippling compatibility issues with some serious classics, so I know that it's no substitute for a good heavy sixer.

With my recent rumblings over needless public sensitivity to not yet released products, I'd look the part of a hypocrite if went on about the potential for this to be crap. I honestly have no idea what is under the hood and it could easily be better than what we've seen before. Who knows.

I have absoultely no problems giving this version a shot when it drops, and my fingers are crossed that it'll be decent.

Though I DO wish that the Flashback 3 was the Sega Gopher style portable with the internal memory for game roms. That would've been nice.

[stonic]

I agree - a portable would have been nice to see, but it would be pointless for Atari to do one if it only included a few dozen built-in games. Which means either all the problems with the FB2 chip would have to be solved (not likely), along with having a cartridge port on it, or making an emulator-based version (ex: a GP32 running Z26).

Then again, Ben has been making portable VCS systems for years. Nothing beats using the original hardware :)

[killersquirel]

I'm waiting for a portable Channel F!

[Leo_A]

Considering all the issues (or what you're calling "care, love, and attention to detail") with the various Flashback models up until now, I'm all for someone else doing the next version.

I'll stick by my statement. I actually have first hand experience with these products, unlike yourself.

[stonic]

I actually have first hand experience with these products, unlike yourself.

Sorry Leo, but you couldn't be more wrong. Perhaps your rosy (i.e. blinded) view of the Flashbacks is to blame for making such a ridiculous comment. I've played the FB1 and FB2. I've also modded a FB2 (most of the info on the Easter egg page mentioned above came from my experiences with testing it). I have no problem sticking with my statements either. The difference is, I can back mine up with facts.

[Leo_A]

Anyone with a pair of eyes can revisit earlier postings about this and see for themselves how little value your opinion on the Flashback 2 held.

[Steve W]

If they were considering putting out a portable 2600, It'd be nice if they made a custom chipset that could emulate all Atari's 6502 based systems (technically the 2600 had a 6507 which was a variant of the 6502). I'd love having an all-in-one classic unit with an assortment of Lynx, XEGS, 7800, 5200, and 2600 games. It'll never happen, but still, it's nice to dream.

[stonic]

Anyone with a pair of eyes can revisit earlier postings about this and see for themselves how little value your opinion on the Flashback 2 held.

And anyone with an intellect above the 3rd grade can also see your biased, fanboy opinion of it, and your absolute refusal to recognize any of the problems that plague it.

[Brianvgplayer]

I read that page with the bugs. It still lists some things that were fixed in later revs without mentioning they were fixed. It also lists the sync issue as a bug when it affects some real carts. I tried battlezone on FB2 on three different TVs (all CRT, a couple newer) and had no problems with it flipping (I have a later rev with the Quadrun voice. No problems with Arcade Asteroids either). I think the bugs listed as Yars' Revenge are actually for Yars' Return (noticed them for Return, but not Revenge). None of the FB2+ changes are listed either. The page mentions that it's impossible to tell how the difficulty switches are pressed when it's possible by slightly pressing them to see how deep they are pressed.