SMB2: Doki Doki Panic or Lost Levels?

[SoulBlazer]

It's common knowledge that the game that Nintendo released for the NES in 1988 as Super Mario Brothers 2 did not start life as a 'real' Mario game. For whatever reason Nintendo decided to adopt another game and morph it into SMB 2.

Japan DID get a real SMB 2 -- just a updated and harder version of the original Super Mario Brothers. That's one reason I've read over the years as to why Nintendo decided (at first) not to release the game -- they felt it was too hard for American gamers, that the public wanted a totally 'new' Mario game, and that it was'nt as fun as the original game.

So a Japanese game called Doki Doki Panic, staring a Arbian guy, was converted into SMB 2. The game did well enough in the States, despite not being the smash hit the original was.

Nintendo did eventuly release the 'real' SMB 2 in the States, called Super Mario Brothers: The Lost Levels, one of the games included on the SMB All Stars game for the SNES (in 1994, I think). And it WAS damn hard, much harder then either SMB 1 or 2 was.

If you've played both games and are a Mario fan, ESPECILY if you (like me) remember getting SMB 2 when it was new and playing it a lot, what's your opinion?

Did Nintendo make the right decision in releasing Doki Doki Panic as a Mario game or should they have released Lost Levels over here instead? Which game SHOULD have been SMB 2 and why?

[jajaja]

Hm.. hard to say. Super Mario Bros was the first game I got (as many others) and I love the game.
Since Super Mario Bros 2 (Japanese) is so to say the exact same game as Super Mario Bros, just with new levels and much harder I dont think it would have sold as much as Super Mario Bros 2 (european/american) would.

People would like to see new things in games, and SMB2 is much more detailed than SMB. Also had an option to choose between 4 caracher which made the game even more fun.

So personally I dont think SMB2 (japanese) would have sold as much as SMB (european/american) over in USA and Europe.

[Tatsu]

I think (from the marketing point of view) Nintendo did the right thing. Most of the people bought the game blind because it was the new Mario game and because the first one was just a blast.

Even if the game was very different than the first one it was still a good game. First I was a bit disappointed after playing it (and it is still my least favourite Mario game from the NES and S-NES) but I got used to it. And so did most of my friends. I don't know if the original game would have been so successfull without the changing into the Mario franchise. It would have sure got less attention and all. Plus I think most of the gamers would not have bought a new Mario game that is similar to the first one but only harder. Mainly because most of the gamers (at least in my area) were kids and the parents had to buy the games. So why buy a game you allready have when you can get a new one? As I said at the beginning: Nintendo did the right thing.

[mfsteve]

ive never played the original japanese version of smb2. could someone post a rom or something?

[Graham Mitchell]

You can find SMB 2 in any copy of Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES. Look for that ROM.

I'm a bit conflicted on this myself, except to say that Doki Doki Panic itself is a great game (even if it's no Mario game, really), and we may have never seen it over here had Nintendo not commandeered it the way they did. I have lots of good memories with that game.

Also, there are a lot of people (particularly girls) that I've met over the years who worship the US version of SMB2. So, all in all, I guess Nintendo did the right thing. The Lost Levels are so darn hard that probably would have ended up throwing the cart out the window if it had been released over here.

[Oobgarm]

I think that Nintendo made a smart move. Simply taking the original game and upping the difficulty wouldn't have satiated the gaming populace's need for a new Mario game. The die-hards would have embraced it, certainly, but the entity that is 'casual gamer' was rearing it's head at the time, and the change to something fresh kept that segment of the game playing public happy.

Besides, I think SMB 2 (US) was a fantastic title. I like it much more than I liked the original, but then again, I didn't get the original with my NES. I got the DELUXE set. :P

[vintagegamecrazy]

I think either one would have held its own. The original was such a craze that the second would have rode the momentum and sold just as well. Question, on the original Japanese version was there continues like on All Stars, I have beaten it on all stars more than once, but without continues it would have been in it's own league of difficulty.

[s1lence]

The first time I played SMB 2, I though where the hell are the koopa and goomba's? What are these shy guy things and why cant I stomp anyone anymore? I acutally like the game, but SMB 3 is still my favorite.

[kainemaxwell]

I actually like them both. Doki Doki SMB2 is definitly different and has good variety, and Lost Lvels adds to the orginial by upping the difficulty quite a bit. Both good games in their own right.

[imanerd0011]

I think that Nintendo definatley did the right thing making SMB 2 the way they did (in the U.S). I like the fact that we have 3 totally different Mario games for the NES.
I do own a pirate cart for SMB 2 Japan, and I think that game is very fun as well, but overall I like SMB 2 U.S more. Mainly because it's much longer, and the gameplay is so different.

[MegaDrive20XX]

let's break it down shall we?

1986- Super Mario Bros. 2 (Famicom Disk)....was not released in the USA due to the fact it was considered too hard and it was the same style of gameplay for American audiences

1987 = Doki Doki Panic (Famicom Disk) Cute little story based on Arabic fairy tale, based on a Fuji TV Anime...which was the bases of our USA/European Super Mario Bros. 2.....four characters...Papa...Mama....Boy...Girl.....which were turned into these....Papa= Mario, Mama= Luigi, Boy= Toad, and Girl= Princess Toadstool/Peach

1988 - Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES USA)- Mario Madness takes North America and Europe by storm...

1992- Super Mario USA (Japanese Famicom)- Japan was pretty much jealous that USA recieved an entirely new Mario game, so by demand they wanted a port of this game for their Famicom...under the re-release name "Super Mario USA!"

1993- Super Mario All-Stars/Super Mario Collection (SNES USA/Super Famicom JPN)- Nintendo finally reveals truth behind Super Mario Bros. 2 and Super Mario Bros. "THE LOST LEVELS"...this was the first time North America and Europe was finally able to play the lost mario game for the first time...

1999- Super Mario Bros. Deluxe (GameBoy Color)- Re-release of the 1985 Classic, with a bonus hidden feature of unlocking "Super Mario Bros. For Super Players"- Which in reality was a port of "Super Mario Bros. The Losts Levels" aka the REAL "Super Mario Bros. 2"

2001- Super Mario Advance- Super Mario Bros. 2 (GBA)- Another re-release/port of the Super NES/SFC version of Super Mario 2/Super Mario USA from Super Mario All-Stars/Collection. This edition added a few minor features....yet the Japanese version calls it "SUPER MARIO USA" still.

2004- Famicom Mini Series Vol. 21- Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japanese Import) (GBA)- yet another re-re-release During the 20th Anniversary of the Famicom/NES, Nintendo has already re-released the Famicom Disk series on GBA cartridge format, which you can find for about $20, yet since most of these games are made for a certain period of time...good luck trying to snag one, because nobody knows when Nintendo will cease to make series 3 of the famicom-mini's.

[scooterb23]

To this day, I hate the SMB2 we got here in the US. It wasn't a real Mario game in my eyes, and I could never break that mental hurdle. I just did not enjoy that game.

I absolutely love the Lost Levels though. Finished the whole game on 1 life even. :D

[goatdan]

I think (from the marketing point of view) Nintendo did the right thing. Most of the people bought the game blind because it was the new Mario game and because the first one was just a blast.

I'd agree with this entirely. How often have the SMB2 characters showed up in things like Super Mario Kart: DD and other Mario products. Just based on the milage they are still getting out of that, yeah it was a good deal.

Now personally, I would have much rather seen the Japanese game come out over here. I *hated* SMB2 with a passion and still do. I have never beat the game, and never really wanted to. I just thought it was all dumb.

I loved SMB:LL on the SNES, and beat that game. Sure, it was hard... but it was fun as heck :)

[sharp]

I'm still in doubt. I like the LL more as a game as it's hard and typical Mario. On the other hand Mario USA was for me always a stange game, it never caught me like 1 and 3. I think commercial it was a good move from Nintendo, but personal I more liked it when the game was released as Doki Doki Panic. I think I always had the wrong expections for Mario USA, as it's not a real mario game and the gameplay is too different.

[Crush Crawfish]

I much prefer the US version of SMB2. I love that game, even if it's not a true mario game. The japanese version of Mario 2 was just too damn hard! Plus, SMB2 introduced shy guys, and they kick ass! :D

[daynum]

I think it was the right choice. Japanese SMB2 probably was too hard for most people, especially without the option to save after every level which was given in the Lost Levels. And as for those backward warps... :grrr:

I loved USA SMB2 back then and I still do now. All this talk about it not feeling like a real mario game is true if you're comparing it to SMB1, SMB3, Super Mario World and the rest but at the time there was only SMB1 so it didn't feel completely out of place, just a little different.

[NE146]

I posted this article (from EGM) a couple of times before.. but here it is again. It just shows the reporting of what Nintendo was doing as it happened... i.e. there was some dissapointment at it, but it was pretty limited to the hardcore video game freaks then.

And since I was just in college, I'd imagine most of you were probably toddlers at the time and probably didn't care LOL

http://www.users.uswest.net/~userid946/EGP-14.jpg

[Lady Jaye]

Hey, I wasn't a toddler! I was either in grade 6 or 7, depending on when the article was published.

Well, without SMB2 (US), Luigi might have remained Mario's identical twin brother instead of the tall, skinny guy he became (the change in design was prompted by the replacement of sprites)...

And the game also saw the introduction of the first transsexual character in the Nintendo world: Birdo!

[theoakwoody]

I didn't read everyone's posts so if this has already been said than I apologize.

The only way they should have released the "real" SMB2 in the US is if they included a password save or battery save feature. I'm not sure if the original disk game had that feature but the game is damn hard. My brother and I finally beat it on Super Mario All-stars and without saves we would have been way to frustrated to beat it. Some of the castles are un-possible.

Well, the original SMB had a secret cheat that allowed you to continue so maybe if they had just included that it would have been fine.

As far as the game not being different enough I don't think that really matters. SMB was such a huge hit that they stil would have sold a ton of carts. Look at how many sequels Capcom put out such as Mega Man, Duck Tales, etc. I mean I love Capcom but you can't argue that the sequels were a huge leap over the previous version.

Rebadging a game made by another company and passing it off as a SMB game was genious. No one knew the difference and everyone ate it up. It's still a great game in my eyes but what makes it better was that somehow it felt right. Think about it, how many changes did Nintendo make to the final product? They changed the main characters and a couple of enemies. WIth minimal effort they made a shitload of quiche and managed NOT to leave everyone feeling like we got ripped off.

Not to stray from the main topic but I believe this falls into the same category as the question" Why the hell didn't we get the true Metal Gear 2?". Snake's Revenge is still great,imo, but come on, Metal Gear 2 would have been the nut on the nes. So they would have had to dumb down the graphics for the nes but the gameplay could have been identical. Or perhaps they could have redone it for the Snes, I mean Metal Gear 2 came out less than 2 years before the Super Famicom, give us Snake's Revenge to tide us over until the 16-bit revolution hit full force and then blow us away with graphics that would make the MSX cry.

Done and Done.

[Twinbee]

edit

[Twinbee]

I absolutely love the Lost Levels though. Finished the whole game on 1 life even. :D

You did? >_<
Like others, I was wondering if it is possible to finnish the game without continues... well, it is possible but there's a chance of you getting insane.
A friend of mine and I are trying to do it... so far we can reach world 6 before game over.

[imanerd0011]

I absolutely love the Lost Levels though. Finished the whole game on 1 life even. :D

You did? >_<
Like others, I was wondering if it is possible to finnish the game without continues... well, it is possible but there's a chance of you getting insane.
A friend of mine and I are trying to do it... so far we can reach world 6 before game over.


It is definatley possible. I have beaten it before many times, but I usually die once or so. Most of the time it's a fluke, or I quit paying attention.

[Push Upstairs]

I like SMB2 (US). At first it didnt seem right coming from playing SMB 1+3 (i owned them first) but after some time i have grown to love the game and its music.

I never really played SMB much because i got Mario 3 with my Nintendo. I am a person who likes tight controls, and one of the things i didnt care for in the orginal was that movement seemed rather stiff.

Which is why i never bother to play SMB 1 or Lost Levels.

The really ironic part is that if i didnt know any better...i'd think that the Japanese SMB2 was some hacked ROM. :hmm:

[Jorpho]

SMB2 was a lot more accessible than SMB2j, I think, and brought in a lot more gamers than SMB2j would have.


let's break it down shall we?

(snip)

1992- Super Mario USA (Japanese Famicom)- Japan was pretty much jealous that USA recieved an entirely new Mario game, so by demand they wanted a port of this game for their Famicom...under the re-release name "Super Mario USA!"

I shall take another opportunity to plug the BS Super Mario USA releases. The All-Stars versions of Worlds 1, 2, 4, and 5 were released one at a time through the SNES Satellaview system. Each has unique and amusing timer-related events; be advised that SNES9x 1.29 (or earlier) is the only emulator capable of running them properly. (I'm told they might work with Super Sleuth, as well.)

[whoisKeel]

SM2 (usa) is one of my all time favorite games. I absolutely loved this game when it came out. I've only played the other on allstars when it came out, and I remember enjoying that game as well, I just think that SM2us is a much more fun game. Good move on Nintendo's part imo, though it would've been nice to have both games as well. I remember reading a site about the differences between Doki and SM2 and there are actually quite a few.

[Graham Mitchell]

Not to stray from the main topic but I believe this falls into the same category as the question" Why the hell didn't we get the true Metal Gear 2?". Snake's Revenge is still great,imo, but come on, Metal Gear 2 would have been the nut on the nes. So they would have had to dumb down the graphics for the nes but the gameplay could have been identical. Or perhaps they could have redone it for the Snes, I mean Metal Gear 2 came out less than 2 years before the Super Famicom, give us Snake's Revenge to tide us over until the 16-bit revolution hit full force and then blow us away with graphics that would make the MSX cry.

I thought it did come out on the Famicom. Am I wrong here? We just had a thread about this not too long ago; everybody was pissed because we got Snake's Revenge and no MG2:Solid Snake.

[suppafly]

As much as I dislike how NINTENDO runs their business now...I think they made a great decision with SMB2 in the USA.

I really love SMB2 (doki doki). And the lost levels dont really look that cool on the super mario all starts colelction (SNES)

[Jorpho]

I thought it did come out on the Famicom. Am I wrong here? We just had a thread about this not too long ago; everybody was pissed because we got Snake's Revenge and no MG2:Solid Snake.

Nope, that was MSX only. If it was on the Famicom, we'd have surely seen a fan-translated version spread far and wide by now.

[Jasoco]

I prefer the Doki Doki version of SMB2. The Japanese version is a bit too hard for me, and mostly the same as the original. The Doki one has more variety and introduced the Mario universe to many elements still used today.

[Dr. Morbis]

I picked up SMB2 for my birthday in 1989 based on rave reviews in NP and I was very impressed. It was my favourite game at the time. However, last year Leonk made me a repro of SMB2J and I simply fell in love with it. Exploring all the levels with the proper original graphics again reminded me of the first time I played the original SMB. And I love the difficulty level; it's refreshing. So... my vote goes for SMB2J.

However, I do think the the big N made the right decision back then about porting an enhanced DD Panic.

[Jasoco]

However, I do think the the big N made the right decision back then about porting an enhanced DD Panic.Just think. Had they decided to bring the Japanese SMB2 out here in the first place, we would have missed out on a whole world of cool Mario-ism's, and instead of getting two great games, we'd have gotten only one and Japan would have gotten one good game and some forgettable game called "Doki Doki Panic". We would have never heard of Doki Doki. And what would SMB3 have turned out to be had SMB2 USA been the Lost Levels? A lot different, that's for sure.

A question I've always asked though is in SMB2 (Doki), why is it in vertically scrolling parts of levels (Since SMB2 only scrolled either left to right or up and down, rather than all four at once like SMB3 does later), it scrolls screen by screen? I mean, a lot of other NES games that came out years before SMB2 could scroll smoothly up and down. Ice Climber, Kid Icarus. It didn't need to move one screen at a time. Yet, Doki/SMB2 did. Is there some technical reason for this?

[daynum]

And what would SMB3 have turned out to be had SMB2 USA been the Lost Levels? A lot different, that's for sure.


It would have been the same I expect, seeming as in Japan the same SMB3 followed the Japanese SMB2.

[Graham Mitchell]

So, inspired by this thread, I unlocked "Super Mario Bros. for Super Players" in Super Mario Deluxe (GBColor) last night, which as somebody mentioned, is basically the Lost Levels.

I then handed the Gameboy Advance right over to my fiancee' (who really likes all the Mario games, but hasn't played that one). I asked her later if she lilked it, and she said "I did, but it's hard!" I then asked her how she would have felt if that game had came out over here instead of the version SMB2 that we got, and she replied "I wouldn't have known any better, I think I would have liked it just fine". Then she complained because I ran my mouth about the story of why that game didn't come out here blah blah blah...she didn't care.

But that was my experiment. It seems the average Joe (or in this case Nikki), maybe wouldn't have really cared which version of SMB2 they got to play.

[rick weis]

SMB2 was not my favorite of the series, but i think it's better then the lost levels. i think it was a great move on nintendo's part. ;)

Rick

[oesiii]

SMB2 was not my favorite of the series, but i think it's better then the lost levels. i think it was a great move on nintendo's part. ;)

Rick

I agree, SMB2 was the one that really drew me into the Mario platform games. SMB1 was fun but after I played it through once I didn't really pick it up again for awhile. SMB2 was a little more interesting to me probably because of its quirkiness.

And did Nintendo make any really big mistakes between SMB1 and Super Mario 64 with Mario games? Sure there was some CD-I games and other shady stuff but the majority of their decisions in Japan and the US were spot on.

[Jasoco]

And what would SMB3 have turned out to be had SMB2 USA been the Lost Levels? A lot different, that's for sure.


It would have been the same I expect, seeming as in Japan the same SMB3 followed the Japanese SMB2.No, you don't understand. SMB3 would have been COMPLETELY different. Much of what ended up in SMB3 was introduced in the US version of SMB2. Had there not BEEN a separate SMB2, (Had we gotten the same game Japan got) SMB3 would have ended up a much different beast.

As Doctor Emmett L. Brown would say, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

[Graham Mitchell]

No, you don't understand. SMB3 would have been COMPLETELY different. Much of what ended up in SMB3 was introduced in the US version of SMB2. Had there not BEEN a separate SMB2, (Had we gotten the same game Japan got) SMB3 would have ended up a much different beast.

As Doctor Emmett L. Brown would say, "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."

I don't know about that. I always thought SMB3 had way more in common with SMB1 than it did with 2. A lot of the "3's" were that way, most notably Castlevania. But I felt that SMB3 was more of a direct expansion of the first game, and it pretty much ignored the US version of 2. I'd imagine that American gamers were more surprised by it, therefore, than Japanese gamers.

[Ed Oscuro]

If you look at the cover of SMB2j, you'll see one of the "extra" characters...what would Mario games (for example, the original RPG) be without Kamek? Without the expansion SMB2 provided, the "universe" would be smaller. Nuts on harder levels - if they're giving current gamers trouble, you can consider what they would've been like to younger versions of ourselves.

[slip81]

Just because I'm somewhat of a purist I would say that Nintendo should have released the actual SMB2 here instead.

But I also believe that if they did that they should also have done DDP as well because it's easily my favorite "SMB" game on the NES. Ijust love how different it is and how you have som many gameplay options with the different characters and their unique abilities. I also love the look of it better than the other two mario games. The graphics are great, the music is cool and the locations and enemies are really fun.

The actual SM2 is good, but IMO the DDP version of SMB2 is far better.

[Push Upstairs]

Much of what ended up in SMB3 was introduced in the US version of SMB2.

Like what?

The only thing i notice thats similar between SMB2(US) and Mario 3 is that Mario and the Princess' sprites are the same or very similar. I always figured that since our Mario 2 was "fixed up" while Mario 3 was being made in Japan sprites from SMB3 were used..

[Jasoco]

Bob-omb's for one thing! What would the Mario universe be without them? And no Birdo? No Shy Guys? (Yoshi's Island would be screwed!) There is too much in the US SMB2 to lose. The Mario universe (Not just SMB3) would have been affected immensely. Change a little piece of history and you affect the whole outcome.

[Push Upstairs]

Bob-omb's? They showed up in like 5 levels in SMB3!

Thats like saying Pokey and the black ninja stars in "Super Mario World" were significant.

Saying the inclusion of these characters as anything more than a reference is asinine. I'll give you the Shy Guy hordes in Yoshi's game...but the others...no.

[Jasoco]

Bob-omb's? They showed up in like 5 levels in SMB3!

Thats like saying Pokey and the black ninja stars in "Super Mario World" were significant.

Saying the inclusion of these characters as anything more than a reference is asinine. I'll give you the Shy Guy hordes in Yoshi's game...but the others...no.You still don't get it. What enemy was a big part of Mario 64? Bob-omb's. Yes. Bob-omb's. What enemies were huge in Yoshi's two games and still show up a lot today? Shy Guys!

Is it so hard to accept that the Doki Doki acquisition is a big part of Mario's history? All that meesa saying is without US SMB2, Mario's history would be a lot different. It would. Face it! Don't even argue.

@_@

[daynum]

You still don't get it. What enemy was a big part of Mario 64? Bob-omb's. Yes. Bob-omb's. What enemies were huge in Yoshi's two games and still show up a lot today? Shy Guys!

Is it so hard to accept that the Doki Doki acquisition is a big part of Mario's history? All that meesa saying is without US SMB2, Mario's history would be a lot different. It would. Face it! Don't even argue.

@_@

Well if you're saying that SMB2 had a big influence on the Mario series as a whole then I agree 100%. Especially Yoshi's Island, that definitely had a SMB2 feel to it. But i still don't think that SMB3 would have been significantly different without SMB2 USA. I think it would be quite hard for those two games to be any more different.

[Jasoco]

You still don't get it. What enemy was a big part of Mario 64? Bob-omb's. Yes. Bob-omb's. What enemies were huge in Yoshi's two games and still show up a lot today? Shy Guys!

Is it so hard to accept that the Doki Doki acquisition is a big part of Mario's history? All that meesa saying is without US SMB2, Mario's history would be a lot different. It would. Face it! Don't even argue.

@_@

Well if you're saying that SMB2 had a big influence on the Mario series as a whole then I agree 100%. Especially Yoshi's Island, that definitely had a SMB2 feel to it. But i still don't think that SMB3 would have been significantly different without SMB2 USA. I think it would be quite hard for those two games to be any more different.That is all I am saying.

[Push Upstairs]

You still don't get it. What enemy was a big part of Mario 64? Bob-omb's. Yes. Bob-omb's. What enemies were huge in Yoshi's two games and still show up a lot today? Shy Guys!

Is it so hard to accept that the Doki Doki acquisition is a big part of Mario's history? All that meesa saying is without US SMB2, Mario's history would be a lot different. It would. Face it! Don't even argue.

@_@

Here is what you said

"Much of what ended up in SMB3 was introduced in the US version of SMB2."

And when i asked what, all you said was that Bob-ombs are in that Mario 3.

Having that single enemy show up in SMB3, on such a limited scale, doesn't come anywhere near the adjective "much".

I'll give you the later games, Yoshi's games and Mario 64, i've never played those. But to say that SMB2's immediate sequals were significantly influenced because a couple of characters show up is preposterous.

Had these immediate sequals (orginally) retained the vegetable throwing or some other significant gameplay attribute introduced in SMB2(US) then one could claim a larger influence.

[Eibon]

Also, there are a lot of people (particularly girls) that I've met over the years who worship the US version of SMB2. So, all in all, I guess Nintendo did the right thing.

So strange you mention this, I have had more than one cute youngster over here (19 and 21 that I can recall) that loved SMB2.

Why? LOL

[Graham Mitchell]

Also, there are a lot of people (particularly girls) that I've met over the years who worship the US version of SMB2. So, all in all, I guess Nintendo did the right thing.

So strange you mention this, I have had more than one cute youngster over here (19 and 21 that I can recall) that loved SMB2.

Why? LOL

I don't know, really. Something about being able to use the princess, perhaps? It's also not as complicated as 3. We had some friend, that was a girl, who would play that whenever she came over. It never failed; she loved it.

All my girlfriends throughout the years have loved that game. Oddly enough, the one I stuck with actually prefers Super Mario World (the reason she's a keeper! :D )

[InsaneDavid]

The Doki Doki Panic conversion (SMB2 US) has always been my favorite Super Mario Bros game BECAUSE it was so different. Instead of "here's the Mushroom Kingdom.... scroll left, scroll left, scroll left... here's the next stage that looks the same..." there were worlds that actually changed and new gameplay elements that came into play as well as puzzle solving and boss fights that incorporated things learned up until that point in the game. It didn't feel like the same mechanic with a different skin or arrangement of blocks - the sense of progress was there. (again, something carried over into SMB3 as Jasoco said)

If you sit down and play Doki Doki Panic you'll notice that Nintendo reworked a lot of the gameplay mechanic as well when they did SMB2 as well as a lot of animation tweaking and changing here and there.

The whole reason I bought a GBA on launch day was to be able to play SMB2 on the go. :)

I've been playing the original Famicom Disk System version of SMB2 and while yes it's difficult that's really about it. If this would have come over to the US as SMB2 the SMB franchise probably would have turned into what Megaman is now days - a series that peaked with the release of the second game. *waits for Megaman fanboys to attack* LOL

[AB Positive]

Hey, I wasn't a toddler! I was either in grade 6 or 7, depending on when the article was published.

Well, without SMB2 (US), Luigi might have remained Mario's identical twin brother instead of the tall, skinny guy he became (the change in design was prompted by the replacement of sprites)...

And the game also saw the introduction of the first transsexual character in the Nintendo world: Birdo!

didn't we have a thread debating whether or not Birdo had a sex change throughout her life, due to her profiles in subsequent mario games? I forget how that came out.


I have to say, after playing Lost Levels and US SMB2... I prefer SMB2. I think nintendo made the right move, because the JP SMB2 is just way too hard.

Scoots - you're crazy, but I still love ya.

-AG

[scooterb23]

/me picks a large turnip out of the ground and throws it at Adam. ;)

Since someone mentioned it...yes I beat the Lost Levels on 1 life, that was my second time through the game though. The first time it took 3...

Today, not so much...I tried to repeat those performances, but I'm having hang ups on a couple of later levels. Stupid aging thing...

[chrisbid]

in 1988, the graphics on SMB2 were by far the best ever seen on the system. nintnedo was still in the business of wowing people. had nintendo released super mario bros. 1.5, people wouldve complained about things being the exactly the same.

[ClassicGameTrader]

I think you guys are missing a few things

1. Mario 2 USA was pretty much the entire premise for the mario bros. cartoons of the late 80's (fridays were zelda days) am I wrong? It's been so long but didn't those little star shaped monsters appear on the show?

2. I could be wrong about this but doesn't toad make his first appearance in mario 2, later to be seen in mario 3 and other games

3. It set the precident for luigi being a high jumper and mario being the most well rounded character in many games. (Did that happen in SM2j I cant remember)

[Push Upstairs]

I think you guys are missing a few things

1. Mario 2 USA was pretty much the entire premise for the mario bros. cartoons of the late 80's (fridays were zelda days) am I wrong? It's been so long but didn't those little star shaped monsters appear on the show?

Yes. But i thought it was a mix of both 1+2 (throwing veggies and using fire flower on other occasions)


2. I could be wrong about this but doesn't toad make his first appearance in mario 2, later to be seen in mario 3 and other games

I don't recall Toad being in Mario 3, but i know he shows up in "Link's Awakening" but he's called something else.

[Ed Oscuro]

2. I could be wrong about this but doesn't toad make his first appearance in mario 2, later to be seen in mario 3 and other games
From what I see, Toad is simply an easy sprite hack of a guy with a huge turban on his head. After all, Doki Doki Panic was about people in an Arabian setting!

[ClassicGameTrader]

Yeah he is in the toad houses, he give you items. Also, the kings right hand dudes are all toads.

[mfsteve]

I think you guys are missing a few things

2. I could be wrong about this but doesn't toad make his first appearance in mario 2, later to be seen in mario 3 and other games

toad was in mario 1- he was the guy that told you the princess wasnt there everytime you beat bowser. i dont think nintendo had given him a name at that time but the character was created for mario 1.

[Push Upstairs]

I was thinking the SMB2 endboss, Wart

Nevermind.


Does anyone know when SMB2(US) was "hacked" vs when SMB3 was in development?

Didn't SMB2 come out in the US in 1988?

[chrisbid]

SMB2 - 1988
SMB2 - 1990

development cycles werent nearly as long as they are now, im sure these games took six months or less to develop

[Push Upstairs]

I meant SMB2(US) developement and release

vs.

SMB3 Development and release in Japan.


SMB3 has a copyright date on the title screen of 1988.

So if SMB3 was released in Japan in 1988, then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that both games were "worked on" during the same time period?