FOUND "Drac's Night Out" NES prototype w/ labels

[ande3502]

Hi everyone, I have stumbled upon an NES prototype of the game "Drac's Night Out" and I'm probably going to be putting it on eBay cause I need money but from my research, I have found that only 1 other copy of this cart is known to exist...and that one does not have a label on it like the one I found...so I want to make sure this cart is documented in the gaming world before I get rid of it....anyone know a good way to do this?
http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc94/th_37f_IMG_1388.JPG (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc94&image=37f_IMG_1388.JPG)

[pseudonym]

there was one of those on ebay a couple of weeks ago i think.

[PDorr3]

there was, auction had a ton of ofther nes games in it as well and whole auction went for $65. Thats a reproduction most likely, worth $30-50

[Dr. Morbis]

Thats a reproduction most likely, worth $30-50
That's what I was going to ask. Is it a reproduction with a fan-made label or is that the real publisher's label? If that label is official, then that is quite an interesting find. On the other hand if it's nothing more than repro with a homemade label, then that cart is nothing special. Still it would be nice to be able to play that game on an actual system.

[Doonzmore]

Hell i wouldn't mind buying it myself if the price was right. :)

[Jibbajaba]

The fact that the corners of the label are squared off has me suspicious. I would definitely like to learn more about where this game was found, etc. Right now my vote goes towards "repro".

Chris

[ande3502]

I don't think it's a reproduction, the label is nice and glossy with no sign of it being homemade. I haven't opened it yet, but the cart is a little heavier than other carts, and there is no back label with the the "caution" on it.

[Bratwurst]

The higher quality reproductions have a layer of adhesive tape over the printed sticker to give it the glossy sheen found on commercial cart labels. I should know, I've supplied the stuff to most of the repro guys I know of.

The corners of the label look too squarish compared to say.. Super Mario Bros. 2 or another Nintendo licensed product. Whoever did the label didn't trim it rounded enough.

The art does look nice though, wonder where they got it. Probably a scan from a magazine review or advertisement.

What's really wierd is finding something like this in a flea market.. you usually get these sort of things because you want them made specifically for yourself, so in theory you don't just dump them on a table in some dust market.

[DreamTR]

Someone took a pic of my label from CGE and copied it. That is what the "real label" looks like, but it's still a repro. No one would know what that label would have looked like if they did not see the Drac's label I have.

[ande3502]

i see your point about the square corners, but is it possible that the label is a prototype too? I mean if this game was never released, and the artwork was still in development, then there wouldn't be official labels. The rounded labels are only on mass produced carts, which this is not.

[ande3502]

another thing, the emphasis on the Reebok pump in the artwork also makes me think it's real. "The Game that Pumps You Up"....why would you care to advertise for Reebok if it were a homemade label...the Reebok Pump is the center piece of the label artwork because it was featured in the game. I've googled it and seen some of the homemade labels for this game and they look nothing like this one.

[DreamTR]

ande: did you not read what I wrote? I have a label of that game based on the real label. Someone took a pic of my cart and made a label from it. Simple as that. There is no "prototype" label for it.

[AlanD]

I would have to say fake/repro. The weight of the cart means nothing since a repro would be heavy also - those eproms weigh more.

The label regardless of whether it looks like DreamTR's cart is not a typical label for a proto. Generally it is handwritten or a very cheap label not a full-color, complete process (with plastic coating) final label. If it did get printed full process, it should have the round corners and not square.

Nope sorry I declare shenanigans. I stumble across 'protos' in my workshop all the time as quite a few people here will tell you. They take about $50 worth of tools and maybe $10 in materials to make. Just open the cart up and take a good picture of the board as well as closeup of the numbers on the eproms and I can tell definitively since I still have reference pictures on a CD around here from when I dumped the original proto of Drac's Night Out a few years back.

[ande3502]

Yea I'll open it today and put the pics on here so you guys can see it. But the big question for me is, why would someone put all that work into a homemade cart, and then leave it for me to find in a heap of crap.

[ande3502]

Another thing, why would it not have a back label? If someone made their own, then whatever cart they used to make the repro WOULD have the back "Caution" label, unless they peeled it off (a very clean peel with no residue i may add)....why? If you were making a repro, wouldn't you keep that label on it to make it seem more authentic. Someone said that protos usually have shabby labels, well protos are not usual at all, so there is no rule of thumb. Who knows how Parker Brothers does things. Maybe they needed to whip up a cart to show Reebok so they could okay it. And as far as the guy who says someone stole his pic of the label and used it to make it, I say B.S., ever since I came across this, I've been googling dracs night out like mad, and never have i found this picture. None of this matters though, as soon as i get the gamebit later today ill be able to see inside i cant wait....ill post the pics here when i do.

[Jumpman Jr.]

But the big question for me is, why would someone put all that work into a homemade cart, and then leave it for me to find in a heap of crap.

He probably made the cart, and sold it to somebody else. Something might have happened to the person who bought it (stopped collecting, went away for a while and his mom cleaned out his room, etc..) could have dumped it somewhere.
There are many ways a repro could end up in a flea market.

[ande3502]

Okay here are some pics, I'm pretty certain it's real now, check it out....

http://img8.imagevenue.com/loc87/th_5fc_IMG_1398.JPG (http://img8.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc87&image=5fc_IMG_1398.JPG)
http://img18.imagevenue.com/loc113/th_d50_IMG_1401.JPG (http://img18.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc113&image=d50_IMG_1401.JPG)

[Bratwurst]

Haha, everyone got OWNED (including me).

[AlanD]

Haha, everyone got OWNED (including me).


Not really. It is a standard eprom board that is populated depending on what is needed. It is the same as I recall Drac being on but I am at work and would have to check some old CDs as I dumped the game over 4 years ago.

My point is I can make an exact duplicate of that. Plenty of those boards are floating around (Acclaim selling out for example). The back label can easily be cleaned off, the front label has already been discussed. $50 for a burner and $12 of blank eproms is all that is required after that.

I however can tell you that while I don't remember the exact label that the Drac's proto I dumped had at the moment it certainly was not a full color plastic label therefore I can speak for what Parker Bros did with the original of the cart you supposedly have.

**** I would go on but lunch is over and I want to look for the pics first. The coincidence of one sold on ebay and this one appearing within 10 days is pretty overwhelming that nobody has any idea of the history of this and can't prove it's legitimacy one way or the other.****

[ande3502]

http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc138/th_ce1_IMG_0484.JPG (http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc138&image=ce1_IMG_0484.JPG)
http://img15.imagevenue.com/loc104/th_d20_IMG_0485.JPG (http://img15.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc104&image=d20_IMG_0485.JPG)
http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc73/th_b1b_IMG_0489.JPG (http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc73&image=b1b_IMG_0489.JPG)
http://img6.imagevenue.com/loc98/th_57f_IMG_0491.JPG (http://img6.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc98&image=57f_IMG_0491.JPG)

[AlanD]

Thanks for posting more pics but I'm not doubting you that it has an eprom board in it or that it plays Drac's Night Out. I'm saying that really there is no proof that it is a proto. It could just as easily be a well-conceived copy. Can you take or scan clear pics of the label? I would like to see what quality the print job is.

Regardless if you have a labelled pre-production proto with a full label you have the first one I know of and I have handled a few hundred protos and I'm sure that DreamTR has handled more than I and would probably agree with me.

While I can't prove it is not a proto it certainly leaves a lot of questions of whether it is a true proto or someone's eaborate fake.
AlanD

[Dr. Morbis]

Are you interested in having your copy dumped so that we can see if it is different from the already dumped version?

[ande3502]

First of all thanks for all your comments, I appreciate you taking the time to check this out. Although I see your point, there is just not 1 sign of the board being tampered with at all, no sodering marks or anything like that.....all the reproduction pics Ive seen on the net are real scrubby with wires hangin off and boards cut in half, ect....But your point about the labels makes sense, my theory is that since this particular game features the Reebok Pump...I'm sure the people at reebok wanted to see what the finished product was going to look like, since they were obviously involved with the game, and maybe someone at Parker Brothers whipped up a decent label to show it off to them....or maybe not, i dunno...but I have to go back to the fact that i found this in a crap pile of games...even if you were a collector that quit collecting, you wouldn't just pawn this off on someone who doesnt give a shit....why not put it on ebay or somthing if you were gettin rid of your crap, I would have to guess that in order to make a reproduction you would have to be familiar with the internet and know that someone would pay a few bucks for it...and also the back label, if this was so "elaborate" of a hoax, then why not throw a back label on it? And looking at the label, you can see that this thing has been used, its all worn, I would imagine if you put that much work into a hoax, youd take better care of it. Anyways i realize im biased because its in my posession, and I really really want it to be real (i think it is), but i also realize that you guys are the experts so my ears are open, i just want to know the truth.

[ande3502]

it would be cool to have it dumped, i guess ive never had anything like this (im usually unlucky) so I'm a little uneasy about sending it off to a stranger ya know....

[DreamTR]

Ande, that is a prototype board, but here's the problem. I have a Drac that looks EXACTLY like that with the EXACT same EPROM board. Does that make it a proto? Technically, someone dumping the games onto EPROMS and placing them onto a proto board is the same thing that they did at any company when these games were in development.

My game has the proto label, is in a proto board, but it's a replica. Plain and simple. Because this game is all over the web, it's kind of useless with some value. The label makes it go up in value, but I am pretty sure that the "want" for this game is not going to be as happening as let's say, an unreleased, undumped proto.

[ande3502]

So why no back label?

[ande3502]

and i am a frequent eBayer, this cart is by no means "all over"

[DreamTR]

What does no back label have to do with it? I am saying mine looks EXACTLY the same, proto board and everything, and I know it's a repro because I REQUESTED this type of proto board in it. It's not that hard to clean a back label off with no residue.

[hansgruber]

I realize by ande3502 coming on here and showing what he thinks is a prototype, its his job to prove to everyone else that what he has is real. But in a case like this, dealing with a very strange prototype that no one has pictures of, its kinda hard to show definitive proof. From what i see he has supplied everything he could, pictures of the game inside and out, and of the actual game playing on a NES system. Now my questions to all you doubters is where is your proof this isnt a prototype? Some of you make good points, but we are just supposed to take your word for everything you say because you are some Nintendo genius? Maybe you are a genius, but i dont know you personally. So its hard for me to side with you based off just what you are saying with no pictures or documentation to back it up. So its about time some the doubters and so-called Nintendo experts supply some pics of their own to back up their claim that this is not real. I'm sick of hearing how they can't find pics, or they have seen things like this on the internet. Maybe I'm just a defense attorney at heart, or maybe i like to rout for the underdog, but until you doubters supply your own proof, Im siding with ande3502...ATLEAST HE HAS SOME PICTURES!

[DreamTR]

Hansgruber, I'll email you the pics of the front of MY cart. I do not have a hosting service and I am not going to deal with getting a pic up to PROVE to you the authenticity of MY cart.

Furthermore, MY Drac's was in the display case for NES prototypes AT CGE for the past two years. There has never been a need to prove my case on authenticity of protos because I can if need be. You are asking me something that other have already verified and seen. This is basically to appease you and him to see a label and the inside of my cart? What will that prove? I told you my cart is a duplicate, but it looks just like a proto because I wanted it that way. His "might" be a proto, it might NOT be one. It sure as hell looks like one to me, but the game was already dumped, so we'll never know unless the data is compared with the one on the web. That is something that HE needs to prove, not me. You want pics? I got em, PM me with email address please.

[TheRedEye]

Are you guys fucking nuts? That cartridge came from a very very cheap ebay auction, creating such a nice fake wasn't exactly a profitable venture. And seriously, Jason, do you think someone took a PHOTOGRAPH of your authentic reproduction label and magically made an exact copy in Photoshop?

We've established that real prototype cartridges of this game were made. We've also established that real labels exist. Why is it impossible that maybe review copies didn't have nice labels slapped on too? The one prototype we have was homemade, from one of the developers. Who knows what review copies look like. If VG&CE was sent a spare label along with the game, maybe another magazine (or more) got one that happened to have the label attached?

[AlanD]

First off - I haven't spent time looking for pictures of the cart I dumped. If anyone wants them, email Ghideon Zhi of Demiforce and I'm sure he'll send you a few. I am not wasting 3 to 4 hours searching through a pile of old CDs just to hear that I still can't prove anything.


To Hans, TRE, Ande3502, DreamTR and anyone else with an opinion - here's my take:

Your side: You want me to prove that a cart from ebay is an authentic proto or not. You offer no documentation or definitive proof that I or others here believe shows it came from someone at Parker Bros and was delivered to a reviewer in the condition it was found. You can spin a tale that accounts for the way it looks.

My Side: I want to prove that a cart from ebay is an authentic proto or not. I offer no documentation or definitive proof that you believe that it MAY have come from someone who made the cart as an elaborate homebrew. I can spin a tale that accounts for the way it looks.

Both are unwinnable situations without a trail of ownership of the cart. Even a cart dump would not necessarily prove much unless gameplay changes were involved since as DreamTR meant when he said 'all over' - the rom is all over the net from the moment I dumped the original cartridge and Sardius released it. If it matches the existing dump then they could have used the roms online.

You come on the message board of the people that make one of the best researched guides on the net for video games and ask their opinion. You have RedEye that does research on protos that says it is possible, DreamTR that says it is possible it is fake and I express the same opinion. Obviously there are questions about the cart's validity if you can tie up several experts with conflicting opinions. Unless some provenance or trail of ownership can be shown (which is generally the proof required for any antique or collectable that it is possible to reproduce) I would not declare it is real. I won't be a party to it being put on ebay to be sold as a Drac's Night Out proto with a seal of approval from Digital Press, Joe Santulli (by proxy since this is his site), DreamTR or myself.


We've established that real prototype cartridges of this game were made. We've also established that real labels exist. Why is it impossible that maybe review copies didn't have nice labels slapped on too? The one prototype we have was homemade, from one of the developers. Who knows what review copies look like. If VG&CE was sent a spare label along with the game, maybe another magazine (or more) got one that happened to have the label attached?

While this was not addressed to me, I'll just mention that it still goes along with the spinning of tales. You can spin one that accounts for the cart as can I. Both are filled with ifs and maybes (2 of each in your paragraph). You have no documentation or insurmountable proof it is real as I have none it is fake. Saying we are 'fucking nuts' for not immediately declaring it is real and for raising questions doesn't make me suddenly reverse my opinion. Give me the trail or solid proof.

Ande: Personally I hope you did get a sweet proto for $60+ and if I had bought the thing I couldn't even fathom selling it. I hope you see my opinion of the matter. I do not claim to be a Nintendo prototype expert but I have handled and dumped many protos for people over the years as others can attest. I have also built a few hundred reproduction carts and understand what is doable so I do have some experience in the matter.

[theguyonthecouch]

After reading that (above posts) I wouldn't judge a book by it's cover but some people here aren't trying too hard to hide what deception they are thinking is really going on and in fact are becoming aggressive. So where's the recourse? Well, maybe in 100 years when all the people who derailed, harassed, and accused that guy of fraud, witchcraft, ect... are dead and forgotten then there will be a place to shine for those finds (that do happen to be authentic) that got sacrificed as not to detract from the name of those who exist only within the confines of their little collectors' arena that they think couldn't exist otherwise without them, because they think they own it, because they think they made it is, insert other crap, ect...

[ande3502]

BOTTOM LINE - "Occam's Razor": that is, a plurality of reasons should not be posited without necessity. In other words, the simplest answer is the best answer...and common sense tells us that no one who made a reproduction this good, would let it slip away in a pile of shit games, or give it to anyone who would do so. Is it possible? Yes, but highly unlikely.

[theguyonthecouch]

interesting, interested in making a trade?

[ande3502]

i dunno what I'm gonna do with it, I really want to keep it but I also could really use the money....I got cut off of federal financial aid for school (thanks bush) and I have only 1 class left to take to graduate and I wanted to take it this summer and I almost feel like this game fell in my lap for a reason i.e. so I could finish my crappy 2 year degree...so I guess a trade is out of the question because I'm either gonna keep it or sell it.

[hansgruber]

Just open the cart up and take a good picture of the board as well as closeup of the numbers on the eproms and I can tell definitively since I still have reference pictures on a CD around here from when I dumped the original proto of Drac's Night Out a few years back.

AlanD, I take from the way you have addressed this subject that you do have a lot of experience in dealing with protos, this is not what i am questioning. I am questioning why you asked ande3502 to supply a close up pic of the board as well as the numbers on the EPROMS because stated you could definitely tell if it is an official proto by comparing his pics with the ones you have of your "so called" actual drac's proto cart. Then as soon as he posts his pics (like you asked, apparently to best his camera would take) you never supplied your pictures or even mentioned that you campared them. You just said you didnt want to dig through a pile of old cds to find the pic. Then why mention it to him in the first place if you weren't going to find them? It seems almost as if you don't want to find out its real, or maybe you can't stand the fact that someone outside of your coveted circle found something significant. Maybe what ande3502 found isnt significant at all, and nothing more than an elaborate hoax, but being that you are involved with a great site like digitpress one would think it would be your duty to try your hardest to find out if its real. Or the least you could do is dig through a pile of cds to find a pic which you claim could solve the whole argument.

[AlanD]

Just open the cart up and take a good picture of the board as well as closeup of the numbers on the eproms and I can tell definitively since I still have reference pictures on a CD around here from when I dumped the original proto of Drac's Night Out a few years back.

AlanD, I take from the way you have addressed this subject that you do have a lot of experience in dealing with protos, this is not what i am questioning. I am questioning why you asked ande3502 to supply a close up pic of the board as well as the numbers on the EPROMS because stated you could definitely tell if it is an official proto by comparing his pics with the ones you have of your "so called" actual drac's proto cart. Then as soon as he posts his pics (like you asked, apparently to best his camera would take) you never supplied your pictures or even mentioned that you campared them. You just said you didnt want to dig through a pile of old cds to find the pic. Then why mention it to him in the first place if you weren't going to find them? It seems almost as if you don't want to find out its real, or maybe you can't stand the fact that someone outside of your coveted circle found something significant. Maybe what ande3502 found isnt significant at all, and nothing more than an elaborate hoax, but being that you are involved with a great site like digitpress one would think it would be your duty to try your hardest to find out if its real. Or the least you could do is dig through a pile of cds to find a pic which you claim could solve the whole argument.


You make a very good point and I should have followed up more on what I thought of the pictures. I declined to spend what I consider my valuable time looking through several spindles of CDs when this thread has turned into 2 camps that will not listen to the other. As I said in previous messages the board is identical to the one of the original cart I dealt with. The label doesn't match at all. The date codes on the eproms are within reason for a cart of this vintage (around 1990 if I remember the picture right). To be honest if this had been found in an unlabelled case at a thrift I would be more inclined to believe it. Something strikes me as fishy about the whole thing and that is my personal gut reaction. I have never impugned ande3502's honesty or implied that he created this cart himself. If he took it that way or you did, it was not my intention and I apologize if my words were construed that way. I will admit I misspoke when I said:


Just open the cart up and take a good picture of the board as well as closeup of the numbers on the eproms and I can tell definitively since I still have reference pictures on a CD around here from when I dumped the original proto of Drac's Night Out a few years back.

The word definitive should not have been used as I am not able to be definitive. The cart board appears legit and in accordance with what I have seen. The labelling is something I have never ever seen on any proto. If anyone can show me any other proto of an unreleased game with a diecut full process plastic coated label, I'll reverse my opinion on the spot.

I believe there is the definite possiblilty that it is real - however it is impossible to prove and really that is true with most NES protos nowadays. Proto boards are regularly bought and sold since Acclaim and other companies went under and their assets sold, the eproms are easily sourced and good printers are not hard to come by. I do not want to be the source of an opinion stating that it is real and have it used as a selling point that 'experts at DP agree it is legitimate'

In the end if ande3502 believes it is real and is happy with his purchase, more power to him and I'm happy for him. If I personally had stumbled across this on ebay and bought it, I would be most interested in proving it real and understand his desire to do so. On my side of the fence, I decline to state firmly it is real or that it is fake - which pretty much makes me riding that fence. In the end only his opinion matters but please don't expect me to blindly agree to it without more proof.

[ande3502]

hey I never really asked anybody to confirm if it's real....I just assumed it was real and asked how to document it....i just wanted to share it with you folks cause i thought youd wanna see it....and why does everyone think I got this on eBay, I never said where I got it from and I'd still rather not say.

[Dr. Morbis]

....and why does everyone think I got this on eBay, I never said where I got it from and I'd still rather not say.
Because of this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8189172129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Read the text and you will see that Drac's Night Out is listed (coincidentally the first game listed).
The pics are gone but it had the same label yours has.

[ande3502]

Interesting, it's wierd that the pics are gone, ususally you are able to view pics on ebay for a few months after the auction.

[anagrama]

Interesting, it's wierd that the pics are gone, ususally you are able to view pics on ebay for a few months after the auction.

Not if the pics were hosted outside of eBay. Then it depends on how long the seller keeps 'em up there.

[rbudrick]

Why is it impossible that maybe review copies didn't have nice labels slapped on too?

I know this is a rather heated topic, and I'm not taking sides or anything, but I've never once seen an NES proto with a "final production style" label. Maybe some review copies that WERE released, but never an unreleased game.

I just can't think of any examples...

-Rob

[TRM]

Why is it impossible that maybe review copies didn't have nice labels slapped on too?

I know this is a rather heated topic, and I'm not taking sides or anything, but I've never once seen an NES proto with a "final production style" label. Maybe some review copies that WERE released, but never an unreleased game.

I just can't think of any examples...

-Rob

For a released game, my Spiritual Warfare prototype.

Not sure if the "lost" Cue Stick that Martin was getting had a final production label or not.

[Simplynes]

Spiritual Warfare and Cue Stick are both unlicensed, it's hardly the same.

Why did you quote lost? do you have a conspiracy theory? lol.

Ace.

[hansgruber]

i see ande3502 decided to finally list drac's night out on ebay, he started it out cheap and someone already bid, but regardless, what i am wonering is if eBay will pull his auction early due to the fact that he put the word "prototype" in the title and description. Is this true or just a nasty eBay rumor?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8193936879&rd=1

[jbholio]

....and why does everyone think I got this on eBay, I never said where I got it from and I'd still rather not say.
Because of this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8189172129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Read the text and you will see that Drac's Night Out is listed (coincidentally the first game listed).
The pics are gone but it had the same label yours has.

The winner of this auction is probably Ande3502 aka cotangent90. Look at the winner bidder (cotangent90) feedback. Don't you find it weird that Ande3502 bought a ROB from cotangent90 (probably shill bidding) and both users are from exactly the same place, St Paul, MN.

[Lemmy Kilmister]

....and why does everyone think I got this on eBay, I never said where I got it from and I'd still rather not say.
Because of this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8189172129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Read the text and you will see that Drac's Night Out is listed (coincidentally the first game listed).
The pics are gone but it had the same label yours has.

The winner of this auction is probably Ande3502 aka cotangent90. Look at the winner bidder (cotangent90) feedback. Don't you find it weird that Ande3502 bought a ROB from cotangent90 (probably shill bidding) and both users are from exactly the same place, St Paul, MN.


Wouldn't be surprised if he shill bid seeing as he's been banned for spamming under multiable accounts here.

[hansgruber]

Apparently you didn't want to answer my question about prototypes being allowed on eBay. But thats okay maybe someone else can answer it. I just think the focus of this topic should continue to stay on whether this cart is authentic and not where ande3502 got the cart. I'm not planning on bidding on this cart whether its real or fake, because i just can force myself to buy any nes cart for more than $10. But just idea that he might of won this cart from the auction you posted makes this cart even more intriguing. If you look at the person's eBay history that sold that nes game lot with drac in it. He doesnt sell nintendo stuff, he sells clothes and magazines, and other odd trinkittes. The chances of that person making a reproduction seem very unlikely. But anyways i'd like to seem someone come into this post and have a true way to authentic a proto like this but i don't think it will ever happen.

[hansgruber]

If you look at ande3502's bid history he also won this item

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8182899061

a pretty rare snes test cart for very cheap. So everyone's notion that finding a rare video game collectible on ebay for cheap automatically makes it a fake or a fraud is ridiculous. I remember seeing that snes when he sold it go for over $100. I agree that by the original guy selling it putting drac's night out first in his list of games is suspicious, but why did he not put the name of that game in his title, and why did he list it in vintage games and not in video games where more people would see it. I think its pretty safe to say that original person that sold this on eBay didnt know anything about this game, but where he actually got this game will obviously never be known.

[hansgruber]

Apparently eBay answered my question, looks they pulled the drac auction, cause he relisted it with a new title and description.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8194077042

[Teo]

....and why does everyone think I got this on eBay, I never said where I got it from and I'd still rather not say.
Because of this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=8189172129&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT
Read the text and you will see that Dhat[/i]rac's Night Out is listed (coincidentally the first game listed).
The pics are gone but it had the same label yours has.

The winner of this auction is probably Ande3502 aka cotangent90. Look at the winner bidder (cotangent90) feedback. Don't you find it weird that Ande3502 bought a ROB from cotangent90 (probably shill bidding) and both users are from exactly the same place, St Paul, MN.

Not nesserally but... "This guy has cash like Carlton Banks!!!!!" Though perhaps he does searches by items located closest to you, I know I do that sometimes and I buy from withing my county. Maybe he bought the games from that guy too. I don't care so I'm not going to ask, but someone might ask where the original auction seller got that cart he sold. No reason why it should be "forever unknown".

[TheRedEye]

While this was not addressed to me, I'll just mention that it still goes along with the spinning of tales. You can spin one that accounts for the cart as can I. Both are filled with ifs and maybes (2 of each in your paragraph). You have no documentation or insurmountable proof it is real as I have none it is fake. Saying we are 'fucking nuts' for not immediately declaring it is real and for raising questions doesn't make me suddenly reverse my opinion. Give me the trail or solid proof.

DreamTR, of this very board, used to work for Tips and Tricks. Tips and Tricks used to be Videogames and Computer Entertainment Magazine. VG&CE was often sent review copies of NES games, for obvious reasons.

In their archive of stuff that was sent to them is a Drac's Night Out label. DreamTR, as stated in his posts (and as I've seen first-hand) has a color copy of this label on his own homemade cart. These are all facts.

GideonZhi lives a couple blocks away from someone who worked on the game, I believe he was a programmer. Said programmer gave him an EPROM cartridge containing the game as a gift, which he then sent to AlanD and had dumped. This is also a fact. There is no speculation or spinning of tales in either of the above, so we've now established that EPROM cartridges exist, and labels were produced.

A fair ASSUMPTION, I think, is that VG&CE probably had a review copy of the game, along with the label. I don't know this for a fact. I also seem to RECALL and am therefore ASSUMING that I read coverage of Drac's Night Out in an issue of Game Player's Guide to Nintendo Games. So I am left to ASSUME that magazines were sent review copies of the game. I think this is a fair assumption. And therefore, I've gone on to assume, based on the above, that it is not impossible that both an EPROM cartridge and a label, both authentic, could live in harmony. Fair enough?

DreamTR is nuts for automatically stamping it a fake, and saying that the foul miscreant who created this fake snuck a photograph of his cartridge and made a reproduction based on that. Come on, now. I'm not going to even begin explaining why this is crazy.

And beyond that, this is just a question of common sense. This game came from a random eBay lot that went for next to nothing. Why in god's name would ANYONE go through all the trouble of making an extremely authentic reproduction of this game, down to the authentic prototype board, MINUS THE BACK LABEL, just to throw it in an eBay lot without even mentioning that it's an unreleased game? Whatever the origins of this cart, the label is authentic, and I'm left to assume the insides are too. But hey, whatever, I'm one of those crazy bastards who said Earthbound was real.

Oh, right.

[TRM]

I'm definately with TheRedEye on this one. I am always one who likes to believe that the prototypes are real, until proven otherwise. I had, likewise, believed the Earthbound prototype to be a legit copy as well, and the Lost Levels article pretty much made my hunch even stronger.

The whole concept of someone taking a picture of a label that Jason has, copying it, and then producing a replica is absurd. Doing this and creating a fake prototype, just to sell in a lot of crapo NES games is even more absurd. Unless someone has too much time on his or her hands, there would be no real reason to do this.

Final though: real.

[AlanD]

You both make very good points. My basic goal is just pointing out that it is impossible to say this is 100% authentic. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that it is fake and I'll play devil's advocate. If everybody sides against me, fine :)

[hansgruber]

AlanD, in my opinion you are doing a poor job of playing the devil's advocate on this one. Of course there is no way to authenticate this cart %100 without talking to actual people that made it, which will never happen. But saying that there is a possibility that it is fake, of course there is. There is a possibily that any NES cart is fake then. If you say that its so easy to make reproductions with identical labels, then basically any cart could be reproduced. Then we must question any cart of its authenticity that comes across this board or eBay for that matter. So why would YOU ever buy a NES cart again. If you had any valid points as to why this cart is a reproduction, (for instance other version of drac's with the same label floating around the net, or major differences on the board) i could see your point. But the doubters keep saying the same old stuff. And the doubters will probably be the actual people that bid this cart up to a ridiculous price. It will be interesting to see who bids on this and wins it for that matter.

[AlanD]

I may be doing a bad job but you just agreed with me that there is no way to prove it is a real proto. That has been my contention all along. Because of that I wouldn't declare it is real. If there was documentation similar to a few 2600 protos in the past then there would be no question of its authenticity.

Several 2600 protos have been found with the letters from the original companies asking for review of the cart. Kind of hard to dispute that especially when some were found in the collection of the reviewer. :)

If you want a great tale spun, maybe the cart was made by ande3502, listed under a fake name, bid through with him winning, advertised on 5-6 sites full of collectors and then sold at another auction for a much much higher price. I doubt it but it is a fun theory.

While I'll admit the evidence is extremely strong it is real and I dubt it can be proved as a fake, I wouldn't be the one to insure it as real. If everyone feels so strongly it is real, email the high bidder and offer a money back guarantee on his purchase.

[TRM]

The cartridge was found at an estate sale.

[AlanD]

and is it the same one auctioned on ebay the week before or a different one?

[TRM]

I was assuming it was the same one...if it is a different one, then I don't know where it came from originally.

[Nicola]

If you look at ande3502's bid history he also won this item

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8182899061

a pretty rare snes test cart for very cheap. So everyone's notion that finding a rare video game collectible on ebay for cheap automatically makes it a fake or a fraud is ridiculous. I remember seeing that snes when he sold it go for over $100...

OT but thanks! :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8192552955&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8192600001&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

[MikeTV]

Hi everyone...ande3502 here...sorry for not replying sooner but they banned my ip here in the forums...apparently I was being too noisy about my gripes with usps media mail, I also offened one of the moderaters by saying the band Rush sucked (he likes them) anyways i just wanted to clear that up. I had to find a way back on to thouroughly REJECt the notion that i in any way misrepresented this cart for exactly what it is. YES the one I am selling is the exact same one that showed up on ebay a few weeks ago. No I am not cotangent90. Cotangent90 is my friend, we grew up together here in Saint Paul...Cotangent doesnt know much about nes rarities....he found this lot of games on ebay and the Drac's title stood out to him becuase he had (luckily) remembered me blabbing about it to him...when he found it he called me, I told him that if it was legit its worth puttin a high bid on it cause its really rare. At this point in time there was only a few minutes left in the auction so I told him to put down a high bid and I'd split the cost with him. Well we won it, and decieded to list it on my ebay account because i have higher feedback. I am offended that you would accuse me of making seperate accounts just to list this game or trying to mislead the gaming community in any way....I have a high positive feedback on ebay and take much pride in what i sell. If you look back, the only reason i signed up for the forums here is to show my find to all so that it could be documented. If you look back a couple threads in the proto board, you see the guy claimed to have found dracs in a garagesale and "QUICK" wanted to know whether to buy it. Well it is obvious that he too saw the lot on eBay and LIED claiming that he saw it in a yardsale so that he would not draw attention to the auction so he could win it. Funny enough, it is the same guy who keeps falsley accusing my cart of being a reproduction....why would you beleive someone who already tried to pull the wool over your eyes. Anyways, I just wanted to clear that up, i dont like being called a liar or a scammer...your starting to piss me off. This is not the first rare cart ive found and sold:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8185196233&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

rush still sucks

[MikeTV]

oh, and the r.o.b. feedback we gave eachother is because he found a rob at the thrift store, and i wanted it, well he thought he could get more on ebay so i bid on it knowing i could get free shipping....and i won....big deal, i got a rob i knew worked from someone i trust with home delivery for 1o bucks! the feedback we left eachother is kind of silly sounding, we were just goofin....occams razor: "one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything"

[MikeTV]

hey alan...i was wondering if you could pull some strings and make it so I'm not banned....I think they were mainly upset cause I started a new thread about something that already had a thread...anyways I now understand a little more about etiquitte in message boards so i apologize for being noisy, i was feelin politically passionate that day....besides cmon you know Rush sucks.

[AlanD]

I happen to own pretty much the whole Rush discography so I'm the last one you should tell that to :) Talk to DP thru a PM or email as I didn't set the ban. I would however handle it expediently since bypassing the ban and setting up another account is just one more nail in the coffin to the moderators/administrators.

[DreamTR]

Someone sure has a lot of multiple accounts to try and say his cart is authentic.

TRE: I am not arguing what I said might be construed as "silly" to say the least. What I wanted to prove was that it is easier than it looks to fake an authentication for a game if someone wanted to. Sure, that game went for near nothing, but Drac's is already dumped. It won't go for a fraction of what it would festch if it were undumped at the moment. I just find it interesting that ande has all these multiple mystery accounts all of a sudden to prove a find.

[hansgruber]

Mystery accounts? From what ande3502 said the argument was about his account and the one that bought the game in the auction. I really dont think someone would create a second account just to fake an auction for a $10 nes robot. And if he did it to not let people know he boguht this cart on ebay, that makes little sense too. He would had to of made the account after he saw the auction with drac's in it, whcih didnt happen becuase the account that won it "cotangent90" was established long before that auction started. He already admitted he got it from eBay. And i think the fact tht he got it from that strange auction makes it that much more intriguing. So basically you are sugesting two theories: 1.) ande3502 used his psychic powers to find out someone would be selling that game in an auction in the near future, and months before the auction went up, he created a second account "cotangent90" and used that account to buy the game so nobody would know where he got it. or 2.) He made 3 accounts, one to sell the game, one to buy it, and then a totally different 3rd account to resell it. Both these theories are outrageous.

[hansgruber]

And another thing i wanted to add, Funny how the two people with experience with a real drac's proto "AlanD" and with the real label "dreamTR" are the ones discounting this cart the most. At first notice this would make sense because they have had access to the real proto board and the real label. But the fact that all they keep coming up with is outrageous conspiracy theories and not one bit of solid eveidence as to why its fake, it is now obvious that the only reason they are discounting this cart so much is because they want to still be known as the only ones to have come accross a real drac's proto and label. Maybe it gives them a warm feeling in the pants.

[Arcade Antics]

Hi everyone...ande3502 here...sorry for not replying sooner but they banned my ip here in the forums...apparently I was being too noisy about my gripes with usps media mail, I also offened one of the moderaters by saying the band Rush sucked (he likes them) anyways i just wanted to clear that up.
Wrong.

You were banned for repeatedly spamming the boards, for not stopping after several mods asked you to, and for going on to insult and flame members of this community. Nothing says "mature" like starting an empty thread in the video game forum called "poopy." x_x Classy.

Your childish behavior and countless attempts to sneak back in here have only solidified our opinion that this forum is much better off without you.

And nobody give's a rat's ass if you dislike Rush. LOL

And you're probably not reading this because you're banned for good now.

[TheRedEye]

And another thing i wanted to add, Funny how the two people with experience with a real drac's proto "AlanD" and with the real label "dreamTR" are the ones discounting this cart the most. At first notice this would make sense because they have had access to the real proto board and the real label. But the fact that all they keep coming up with is outrageous conspiracy theories and not one bit of solid eveidence as to why its fake, it is now obvious that the only reason they are discounting this cart so much is because they want to still be known as the only ones to have come accross a real drac's proto and label. Maybe it gives them a warm feeling in the pants.

Okay, I know I'm not the moderator here anymore, but this is getting out of hand. For the sake of the forums, let's stop the slander here, k? There is no proof of authenticity either way. Common logic says it's real, as most agree, but there is no way to prove that. And if you've paid attention to the main forums here, you know there's an air of paranoia whenever anyone claims to find anything, especially someone "new." Insults will get you nowhere.

[Arcade Antics]

Maybe it gives them a warm feeling in the pants.

You wanna disagree with these guys, go ahead. But

a) the burden of proof is on you and your pal ande3502, MikeTV, etc., etc., and;

b) flaming two of this hobby's most experienced collectors is only making you look more foolish to everyone. Take some free advice: quit while you're ahead.

Consider this a warning to stop with the childish flames. Not gonna ask again. :)

[hansgruber]

theRedEye once agains brings calm to the storm. I agree this has gotten out of hand, for any people that dislike me, good news for you I think I'm probably done with this subject, as I can't see anything worth adding to any already overblown discussion. And just to let you know you, i wasn't insulting anyone RedEye if you were reffering to me, i agree the "warm in the pants" comment was maybe unecessary, but hardly an insult. I was just throwing out a conspiracy theory of my own, about those two's reasons for this discounting this cart.

[AlanD]

And another thing i wanted to add, Funny how the two people with experience with a real drac's proto "AlanD" and with the real label "dreamTR" are the ones discounting this cart the most. At first notice this would make sense because they have had access to the real proto board and the real label. But the fact that all they keep coming up with is outrageous conspiracy theories and not one bit of solid eveidence as to why its fake, it is now obvious that the only reason they are discounting this cart so much is because they want to still be known as the only ones to have come accross a real drac's proto and label. Maybe it gives them a warm feeling in the pants.

I agree with TheRedEye that this needs to just go to a lock since it has dragged on enough.

As for my limiting access to a proto I don't even own - hmmm how about I got it released to the public in general. All I have told you to do is prove it is 100% real which you cannot do. I cannot prove it fake. End of conversation. Anything more you read into it is just evidence of your ignorance.

Take your 3-4 accounts and play elsewhere as this party is over.